Latest / System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation / Guest: Matt Pappas

Transcript

Guest: Matt Pappas · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 0:57
  Today, we're talking with Matt from beyondyourpast.com. Thank you for agreeing to be on this or let me talk to you and chat. I just appreciate what you're doing. You have such a smooth process because you've got the IT background and you understand surviving anyway, and then you just have a unique approach. And so that's why I wanted to talk to you.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Well, sure. I'm happy to. I'll be able to
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Good. Well, I'll let you go ahead and introduce yourself first and we'll kind of start there.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: So, yeah. So my name is Matt Pappas and I am a anxiety coach and survivor coach. And of course, I run beyondyourpast.com. And I also do a podcast. I do some blogging.
• 1:46
  And I was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse between the ages of five and 10, and extreme bullying through middle school and part of high school, and survived a lot of other things in life. So I decided to start writing about those through, you know, a series of events that transpired that going in in the direction of being a survivor and wanting to make a career change out of a corporate job of being an engineer and into a life of working with others who are also dealing with a past that involves trauma, a past that deals with extreme anxiety, people who feel stuck and isolated and alone, people who feel like they can't reach their potentials and their goals, and they feel like life is too difficult because of the overwhelming anxiety and other challenges in their life. So that's kind of where you know, my focus is, of course, and it's a combined effort with the coaching individually. I do, group coaching as well. We do the podcast.
• 2:41
  We do the blogging. We also do daily calls for survivors of all different types of trauma who can show up every single day, three sixty five days a year for a forty five minute call with myself and a colleague. We go over strategies and tips and information and share screen shares and do Q and As and cover a variety of topics around being a survivor. It's something that I really enjoy doing and I'm glad I made the transition out of a job that did serve me for quite a long time and I'm very grateful for it. Now I'm in a new phase of my life and really experiencing what I think my true calling is even though it only took me forty some years to do it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. So I already have so many questions. So first of all, the services that you're offering and the things that you're doing, there's such a variety of support. Like, I feel like it just encompasses the person to the degree they're able to participate. Like, you're just there.
• 3:37
  And the things that are hardest about therapy or the things that are hardest about trying to function every day, like that's really where this coaching piece comes in. So what is the difference between therapy and coaching? Could you educate us on that a little bit?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, as far as, you know, kind of the multifaceted approach, I mean, there is no cookie cutter like method of healing. Nobody heals the same way. Some people relate better to different strategies than others. And so, by doing the blogging, the podcasting, the individual, the group coaching, all these different types of things, and of course, some of the courses that we'll be launching in 2019, where we're trying to reach as many as possible with in as many ways as possible so that those who heal better in groups, they have an opportunity.
• 4:23
  Those who are one on one, they have an opportunity. Those who would prefer to do courses, they have an opportunity. So it's basically trying to reach as many as possible because nobody heals the same way. Everybody's different, everybody's journey's different. And so we want to do our best to make sure that we make these options available to as many as possible.
• 4:41
  As far as the coaching and the therapy, therapy and coaching are absolutely different. Some of the modalities can cross back and forth between each other. It just kind of depends on the type of coaching or the type of therapy. But coaches do not diagnose. We don't treat mental health challenges, concerns, issues.
• 5:01
  We don't prescribe medications, anything like that. Coaches take you where you are right now in your life, wherever that is. And then we figure out a way to help you move forward to reach the goals that you want to reach in life, to change the things you want to change, to make the positive events that you felt you haven't been able to for so long because you've been stuck. We understand that there is a past involved. That could be a very traumatic past.
• 5:24
  There could be a lot of anxiety. There could be a lot of relationship struggles. Whatever your particular challenge is, we help you move forward from where you are right now in an encouraging way, understanding that the past can and does affect your present life. Our goal is to help you move forward without being stuck in that past. Whereas therapists, of course, will help you oftentimes go back and understand the past and heal the past and figure out what happened and why it happened and give you strategies and information to understand that comprehend it and deal with the flashbacks and all the different types of things that come with working with a therapist or other clinician.
• 6:03
  Again, so there is a difference, but a lot of the strategies that coaches implement, therapists also do and vice versa. So it really just kind of depends on what you're looking for, but there is a very, I guess a fine line, I guess you would say.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: When you were sharing your introduction, part of what you said, I feel like really resonates with a lot of survivors where such and such happened to me at this age, but then after that, this also happened, and then this also happened, and this also happened, and this also happened. And then when I tried to grow up and be an adult, then also this happened and this happened and this happened. Why is that? Why does it get so complicated? Not just CPTSD, but the trauma itself.
• 6:48
  Why does it seem to layer on top of everything?
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, trauma is absolutely cumulative. It builds on itself. And when you survive something traumatic at a very young age, you become more vulnerable, more susceptible to different types of trauma because as we know and as we continue to learn through discovery and science and research that trauma at a very young age affects your brain, it affects your body, it can cause all different types of mental health challenges, it can cause chronic pain, chronic illness. And so the more you go through Once you experience that first traumatic event, it can, and not always, I want to generalize and say always, but it make you more open to different types of other types of trauma. Again, be it bullying or narcissistic abuse or emotional neglect or whatever the case is, because brain, your immune system, everything about your body has already been compromised because of the trauma.
• 7:47
  And now things can just kind of layer on and layer on and your self esteem is shot, you have no self confidence, you're more vulnerable, you're oftentimes very emotional. So all these things just kind of compound to unfortunately make us more vulnerable or again susceptible to different types of trauma. So the idea of course is that trauma builds on itself. Perhaps you're a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, then maybe again you have bullying, and then there was some emotional neglect, And then maybe you were scapegoated. Then there was some domestic violence.
• 8:20
  I mean, it could be any number of things that people can go through. And the idea is to, at some point, begin to break that cycle, begin to take your power back, understand what happened, understand that it wasn't your fault, start to implement coping skills and processes, excuse me, and process memories and flashbacks and begin to see yourself for the potential you have, not for being the victim for the rest of your life because of what happened to you. So it's a process that takes a long time, but the alternative is staying stuck, staying miserable, staying isolated, staying alone, feeling like nobody cares, feeling like So once start to work with a therapist and then maybe you work with a coach and then you start watching videos and read some books and do different types and experiment with different types of healing modalities and you start to get empowered and you start to see results and you're like, Yes, I feel so much better today. Or, you know, I had a really rough day, but not feeling down for as long as I used to. And all these different types of things also build to help you feel empowered and encouraged to keep going so that when tough times do hit, even as an adult, you're not stuck for as long as what you might have been before.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: When you talk about breaking the cycle, you're not just talking about between generations. You mean in survivor's own lifetime.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because, I mean, when you are trying to heal from trauma and you have all these unhealthy coping skills and things that can literally physically or emotionally harm you, but we do it because it's all we know. It's the only way that we can help numb the pain or avoid the pain or stuff down the pain. Or, you know, so we just we do these things over and over because we haven't been taught anything else.
• 10:04
  We haven't been able to understand that there are alternatives. So once you do and you start to find healthy coping skills and new strategies, and you reach out for a support system online, and you start to put up healthy boundaries with toxic people in your life, and all the things that you learn by working with a therapist and working with a coach, then you start to see that, I'm breaking the cycle. I'm not going to wake up every single day stuck, miserable, feeling like I can't do anything, feeling like I have to settle, feeling like there's no hope. I'm now waking up and saying, You know what? Maybe there's a possibility that something good might happen today, or at least something bad might not happen today.
• 10:40
  And those are the kind of baby steps you take that start to build so you can feel like you're moving in a new direction.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I love that. So not just maybe that something good will happen today, but let's first just have a day where something bad does not happen.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah. I mean, so, you know, especially early on when you start to work through, you know, a traumatic past, a good day can just be the absence of something bad not happening. And that's okay. Like, there's no shame in that whatsoever.
• 11:11
  Because so oftentimes we wake up expecting the worst, we figure nothing good is gonna happen, And, you know, when something bad does happen, well, of course, that's what happened to me. That's what always happens to me. Things never work out for me, all the stuff we tell ourselves. But sometimes when you go through a day and it was just kind of status quo, nothing really major happened, you know, in any event, well, hey, that's a win. And that's a start.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Really empowering. I'm gonna have to write that down for myself just the way you said that. Tell me what you know about dissociation. And our podcast kind of focuses on DID specifically, but just dissociation in general. Then I also saw, you did a blog, about NLP and intentionally dissociating.
• 11:58
  So just in general, what do you know about dissociation? What do you think about it? And this intentional dissociation what? Tell me what's going on.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, there's so much to talk about with with dissociation. I mean, way more than than you can cover on a single podcast.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: But essentially, I mean, I realized that I dissociated when I was sitting in a therapist's office years ago and she told me, she's like, You are just dissociating. And I'm like, What the hell is that? And I mean, literally, never even heard the term, you know, years ago. And so she explained to me and I realized so much of what my life has been spent in a dissociative state and that when I was in the midst of the abuse happening between five and 10, and that when the bullying happened and so many other events in my life, my brain would intentionally take me away and not allow me to be fully present so that it would save me from some of the pain. And that really kind of put so much into perspective for me.
• 13:02
  I realized how much of my life was spent dissociating. Then I realized that there were different levels of dissociation and different types. And of course, you mentioned DID and then there's different types, know, then you have dissociative amnesia and losing time and all these different things that you learn along the way as to what your brain actually does when you dissociate, why it does it, ways that you can help stay fully present now as an adult to understand that dissociation saved you, especially like if you're a trauma survivor, it absolutely saved your life. Believe that. Now as an adult, sometimes it's kind of a pain in the butt, right?
• 13:37
  Just because you're constantly zoning out, you're not able stay fully present, your mind's elsewhere, you're staring up at the ceiling, and all the different things that we do when we dissociate depending on who you are. So understanding how mindfulness can help with dissociation, but also understanding dissociation can be a good thing because it allows you to kind of go to a different place intentionally and just kind of zone out and think about nothing and give your brain a break and give your mind a rest. That's a different form of dissociation. I've written a lot about my own journey of dissociation on my blog in terms of just like what it feels like and how much of a struggle it is now versus what happened during the times of trauma. And so again, there's so much to talk about with that.
• 14:23
  That's like kind of a broad overview. And then you mentioned about in NLP, we talk about intentionally dissociating, which is different. It's a different form than the clinical that you and I are talking about and that what Kathy discussed. And so when you intentionally dissociate, you're trying to get a broad level perspective of a situation, right? So you're not looking at a situation from a first person point of view.
• 14:50
  Like you're not in the middle of it. You're not feeling it. You're not living it real time. You're not in that emotional state. You intentionally pull yourself out.
• 14:59
  Like, I mean, in your mind, you are intentionally removing yourself from a particular set of events or a circumstance, and you are literally seeing yourself go through that event, which allows you to get an objective perspective and see what's really going on rather than what the emotional mind, what the dissociation is trying to tell you is actually going on. So it's a way to get, to kind of show yourself some compassion, some perspective, to get an idea of what it feels like to be you going through that emotional state, going through that traumatic event, whatever, the situation is. And this gives you the opportunity to see what's really happening so you can say, you know what? I shouldn't beat myself up so much. I shouldn't judge myself so much.
• 15:48
  I shouldn't jump to conclusions because this situation is very difficult and I have to work my way through it. And so when you intentionally dissociate, you remove yourself and look at yourself from across the room or from down on a hill or outside a window or a doorway and see what's going on so you can give yourself more compassion and a more objective option to deal with whatever's happening.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Can you explain what NLP is in case someone doesn't know?
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So NLP is neuro linguistic programming. It literally teaches you to understand the language of the brain. And it uses strategies and mindsets and coping skills and information to help you in any event in life.
• 16:30
  I mean, business coaches use it, trauma coaches use it, you can use it against, you know, in your fight against anxiety. It's used in relationship coaching. It's literally retraining your mind to see things from a different point of view, to show yourself more compassion, more objectivity, more kindness, to be able to understand that the way that you see something is different than the way somebody else might see it. And that the way that we look at ourselves, our life, our circumstances, the people around us, our job, our kids, our dog, everything, the way that you look at it has a profound effect on your very well-being, your life, your personality, the way you approach challenges, everything. So, it teaches you to understand how the brain works so you can reformulate and reframe old negative coping skills, negative thoughts, old mindsets into something that can serve you, something that can be understanding and compassionate and empowering rather than negative and disempowering and all those types of things.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Is there anything in general that we need to understand about the brain and trauma?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: The biggest thing to understand about the brain and trauma is that really, no matter what type of trauma it is, your brain is affected literally from the first time it happens. And in terms of complex trauma where there are a series of events that happen over and over and over repeatedly, perhaps over weeks, months, years, whatever the case is. Again, whether it's something that is abuse related or perhaps there is repeated trauma from someone who's in the military, or there are someone who lives through repeated natural disasters, all different types of things, all encompass different types of trauma. And so really the main thing is to understand that the brain is affected. Your thought process, your ability to cope, your ability to cognitively process anything, to think.
• 18:22
  To deal with daily life is compromised when there's trauma. So the idea here is that because that happens, there has to be a way to fix it. And for a long time, we always thought that, well, you know, your brain was damaged and that was the end of it and you were kind of screwed. What we know now and we have known for the last, what, several decades that neuroplasticity allows us to retrain the brain to develop new pathways, create new pathways, new coping skills, and literally retrain the brain to deal with situations differently, to default to a new healthy coping strategy, to something empowering, to something completely different than what you've known. And so allowing those old negative pathways, as we like to call them, or I like I like to call them, the old negative pathways to kind of just fall by the wayside and get worn over with dirt and grass and stones.
• 19:09
  And eventually nobody goes there anymore. And your default skill is something empowering and healthy and encouraging and understanding. And so that's really the hope that the foundation of healing from trauma is that you can heal your brain and change your brain and that in your mind. And that's what really makes healing from any kind of trauma possible. Because if you couldn't do that, you you would just be stuck forever in the state that you are in.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Understanding those things really offers some hope because even someone who's been through long term trauma and repeated patterns of trauma, there's still time to heal even their brain itself.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, yeah. I mean, are people I know, colleagues of mine, people who I interact with online, people I've seen at conferences. I mean, people who are in their sixties, their seventies are going through and learning to retrain their mind and healing from trauma and understanding that something that affected them maybe fifty years ago has been part of their life for all this time. And they're finally able to take the steps to work through and process those memories and heal that trauma. So yeah, it doesn't matter how old you are.
• 20:24
  Mean, you know, from what I, the stats that I know of is that oftentimes, and again, you know, I never say always here, but oftentimes men don't begin to even think about processing trauma until their 40s and women in their 30s. So you're living decades with all kinds of stuff that you have no idea is still affecting you. Mean, when I was in my 20s, well, my late teens and in my 20s and 30s, I didn't think that being bullied in high school fifteen, twenty years ago even made a difference. I had no clue that being abused by a teenager out the street between five and ten was going to affect my self confidence, my self esteem, caused me to have problems with food and my weight and all these different things. And so I had no idea that any of this was all together.
• 21:15
  I thought I was just screwed and broken and busted. And so once I started to realize that, hey, all this makes sense, you know, trauma affects my brain and this is where all these things come from. Okay, now I've got a plan. Now I understand it. What can I do to heal it?
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: That's so powerful.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think that's the approach I take, Emma. It's really is I don't want to be doing everything that I did for the last thirty years that really landed me nowhere good. That's not to say that my life didn't have good times. I I had three amazing kids.
• 21:49
  I've been able to do some things. I had a job, as I said before, in corporate, as engineer that served me for a long time. So there were good things about my life. But by and large, the struggles that nobody ever saw, the things that I dealt with internally that I never shared for all that time. Like, I don't want to go back to that.
• 22:06
  Like, who wants to go back to that kind of misery? So I used it as an empowering way to say, I don't want to go back to the way I was before. How can I move forward? How can I work to heal this stuff so I can feel more in control? I can look at life differently and I can see the potential rather than dreading what's about to come throughout the day for the next year or the next ten years.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: So how does someone know when they're ready? Like doing this kind of work can be so intense. It can be so overwhelming. In some ways it gets worse before it gets better. And it's just hard.
• 22:42
  How does someone know when they're ready to go ahead and try?
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, and this, it's a tough question because nobody, like, the way that I knew I was ready was not the way that somebody else knew they were ready, and sometimes you just kind of happen into it. Like for me, when I sought out the help of a therapist, right? I went to her because I was just coming off a divorce and I was trying to work through my own relationship challenges. And you know, why does this keep happening to me? And why am I, why do I keep having all these things occur in my life?
• 23:20
  And so I was in there for more of like a relationship type of thing. Well, it came out after about six months that I was a trauma survivor. And then we started going down that road. So it kind of happened in a way that I never saw coming because I reached out for something totally different. Trauma affects your life, again, relationships, your personality, your job, your kids, your hobbies, everything.
• 23:41
  So sometimes it's a matter of you reaching out for help in another way and then it organically comes out over time that maybe you're ready to start dealing with this stuff. But I think more often than not, you're just sick and tired of being miserable. You're tired of the status quo. You're tired of waking up every day, dreading what's coming. You're tired of not having, you know, being able to set any goals, to stick with anything.
• 24:07
  You're tired of anxiety, you know, being so much of a part of your life. You're tired of attracting, you know, the wrong type of people. You're tired of not being able to put up healthy boundaries. You're just like the old adage, you're sick and tired of being sick and tired and something has to give. You know, as you mentioned, trauma healing, it's a lot of work.
• 24:24
  It is a ton of work, but the benefits so far outweigh the struggles because, again, the alternative is being where you are for the rest of your life. So why not consider and be like, You know what? I'm tired of this. I need to make a change. Something's got to give.
• 24:41
  Let me try this and see what happens. And if you just dip your toe in the pool, so to speak, and just say, Okay, maybe let's go explore this a little bit with the understanding that once you dive into it, there's going to be a lot of stuff to go through and it's going to be hard and difficult. You're going to spend a lot of times being angry and afraid and upset and sad and all different types of emotions. Getting this stuff out of your head and into the open so it's not so just stuck in there, kind of going around like a hamster in your head over and over and over, replaying all these negative mindsets and all these traumatic events and everything in your life that you want to change. Replaying that, sending it in a new direction.
• 25:23
  So now all that stuff is out in the open. It's out speaking with a therapist. It's out on a blog. It's out of the journal. Maybe you do art therapy, whatever it is that you do to get this stuff out so you can process it.
• 25:35
  And then it doesn't seem like it's so strong anymore. It doesn't seem like it has such a grip on you anymore. So it's really, again, everybody's different. But in my experience, some people just kind of happen into it like I did. And other times you just say, You know what?
• 25:49
  I am so damn sick of living my life this way. Something's got to change. And then understand that nobody can do it for you. Like nobody. I can't heal for you.
• 25:57
  A therapist can't heal for you. A coach can't heal for you. A psychologist or whatever. Nobody can actually heal for you. You have to put in the hard work, you have to put in the effort, but the helping professionals are there to give you guidance, to give you insight, to give you perspective, to give you tools.
• 26:11
  But ultimately, it's up to us to take the reins of our own healing and work our way through it one step at a time, little by little, and then understand that the outcome is worth all of the pain and the struggle as you go through it.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: One of the struggles in the beginning is just finding a good therapist. When someone has been through all of these things and in this pattern of unhealthy interactions or toxic people around them, it's hard to even do that. And I feel like so many of us go through several tries of finding a therapist before you do. How does a person sort through some of that just to get to a good therapist so they can start some of that work?
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Well, you're right. I mean, finding a good therapist, a good coach, a good helping professional is difficult because there are tons out there. I mean, they're of all different types and walks of life and everything. So the idea is, of course, if we're talking about trauma here, in my opinion, you always want to find someone who is trauma informed, somebody who understands what it means to be a survivor, to go through all the different types of things that survivors go through. And so understanding what trauma is and how it affects your daily life.
• 27:25
  So trauma informed therapists, I think, are key when you are trying to work through all of these different types of struggles. So it's really, unfortunately, there's no tried and true method because I might be working, I might be able to recommend half a dozen really amazing, awesome therapists who are trauma informed and they specialize in all different types of art therapy and EMDR and CBT and DBT and IFS and all the different things. But if you don't have a rapport with that therapist, if you don't relate to them, if you're not comfortable, it doesn't matter how good they are. It doesn't mean that that therapist is necessarily a bad choice. It just means that it's not the right choice for you.
• 28:08
  So it takes a lot of research. You might have to go on a bunch of interviews with therapists. And yes, you actually should interview your therapist. Bring along questions. Ask them if they're trauma informed.
• 28:18
  Ask them about their experience. Ask them about their credentials. Reach out to friends and trusted people online who have experience with working through trauma and ask them who they recommend. And you have to do your homework and there's no really easy way to do it. For me, I kind of fortunately lucked into, literally kind of fell into a trauma informed therapist when I was seeking out help while I was still at my corporate job, and I used an employee program to help find myself a therapist.
• 28:51
  Like, I found a great one on the first try, but that rarely happens.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Doesn't
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: happen
• 28:56
  very
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: So I was extremely lucky, but, you know, there I hear story after story after story of people who have worked with therapists, you know, trying you know, they've tried a half a dozen, a dozen different ones until they found the right one. So it can be frustrating. It can be and it can make you feel like you want to give up. But, you know, when you find that right helping professional that you click with, that understands with, that you feel safe with, that has all the credentials that you feel are important, that really makes you feel comfortable and safe in their office, then that's when all the hard work again pays off. But it's just part of this healing thing, this healing journey, healing your stuff, whatever you want to call it, is part of that is trying to find the helping professional that's just right for you.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And what about clinicians? What do you think they need to know about survivors that they're not going to learn from a book or in school?
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's the thing. I mean, I think in my humble opinion, it all comes from experience. It comes from learning about what a survivor does by talking with them, by reading about them, by watching videos of people who are sharing their story, understanding the unique struggles that comes with being a survivor of trauma. It's not something you can just get over. You can't just snap your fingers and snap out of it.
• 30:17
  You can't just tell somebody that, Hey, that happened twenty years ago. Get over it now. It doesn't bother you anymore. Like those types of things are incredibly damaging to a survivor, because it's so invalidating. So it's really just kind of comes with, I think, understanding what a survivor is.
• 30:35
  A lot of, trauma informed clinicians are survivors themselves to some degree, so they know what it feels like. So I feel like real world, there we go, experience can play a big part of it. But it's really just having that compassion and that understanding and the knowledge that certain types of approaches work with survivors and certain types don't. And it's really, again, I think life experience plays a big part of it. But just joining, I know some clinicians who regularly will join survivor chats and watch videos of people who are sharing their struggles every single day to get an understanding of what it means to wake up every day and to struggle so they can feel more compassionate provide programs to people who struggle in the way that they see.
• 31:29
  It's really just, again, there's only so much you can learn when you are in your classes and getting your degrees and your licenses. A lot of it is just, unfortunately, it's experience.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: And what about for your perspective, how would you describe the difference between what it was like to wake up as you before you learned all this and what it's like to wake up as you now that you've been empowered by all this?
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I used to wake up every day anticipating the worst, dreading the worst, you know, nothing good is going to happen today, all these bad things always happen to me, why do I always do this? Living in extremes, catastrophizing everything, living in a very black and white existence to where I'm living on one side or the other and where there's no happy medium, there's no middle ground. I'm either completely miserable or I'm completely happy. And if I'm not one of those two, I have no idea what I am, so I have to default to one. So I would default to being miserable all the time because it's what I knew.
• 32:27
  So I would expect bad things to happen. I would blame myself when there were tough times. I owned everything that even wasn't my stuff to own. I was an extreme people pleaser. I was all just many different things.
• 32:41
  But in a nutshell, I woke up every day with no expectation of things ever getting better. I was just trying to live one day to the next, one hour to the next, month to month, trying to survive, trying to hide all of my pain so I didn't burden other people, you know, and just put on a happy face, put on a mask and just live my life like nothing's wrong. Know, happy go lucky Matt. Everybody loves Matt. He's great.
• 33:07
  He's kind. He's helpful. He loves football. He loves music. You know, all the things that I kind of built for myself up around.
• 33:14
  Like, I created a life or a personality for myself that I wanted people to see. Well, now it's a more genuine, authentic existence. You know, I believe me, I still struggle, anybody who's a survivor tells you they don't struggle anymore at all ever, I would probably question that to some degree because everybody struggles. It doesn't matter how long you've been at this. It doesn't matter what kind of coping skills you have, how long you've been a therapist or a coach or how long you've been at this healing journey in your own personal life, you're still going to struggle.
• 33:45
  Life is still going to throw you curveballs. You're still going to have memories pop up, things and events that trigger you. Just tough decisions, loss of family members and loved ones and pets, just tragedies and traumas that happen in your life. But the idea is that you're no longer dealing with those events in an unhealthy way so that you are constantly blaming yourself, beating yourself up, spiraling down into depression and using unhealthy coping strategies. You're now saying, Okay, I need to process this emotion.
• 34:17
  I need to feel this. I need to figure out where it's coming from, acknowledge it, and then use some self care and then start to pull myself out of it in a time that feels right to me. So it's a total shift in how you approach life and approach the challenges that still come about.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I think that you left me a little bit speechless on the part where you were talking about how you're more genuine now because I feel like your authenticity is part of what draws people to you and makes your support and the things that you write about so real for survivors. So that was interesting to me. Just thank you for being vulnerable there. I guess my last question specifically for you is what are three things that a survivor could do right now to change that default even a little bit?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I think one of the first things is reach out for the support that's available online. I mean, there are countless survivor chats, blogs, Facebook groups, Twitter chats. I mean, all kinds of people sharing all different types of stories from all walks of life. The survivor community, you know, I mean, we all have probably heard the stats of one in four girls and one in six boys are going to be traumatized in some way before their eighteenth birthday. So that means that there are millions of people out there who are just trying to go through the same things that you are.
• 35:47
  And so reach out online for all of the free resources, the videos, the books, the chats. I mean, the survivor community is one of the most accepting and compassionate and empowering and validating groups of people you'll ever meet. And then you know I
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: agree with that. That's so true.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: It is. I mean, that's what really jump started my journey was I went on Google one day and just Googled survivor chat, I think it was. And I found Twitter chats and books and videos and all kinds of stuff. That's what really got me going in the direction of reaching out for help. Utilize the free resources that are right there available on your computer, on your phone, at a computer in the library, wherever, because there's so much out there, so much information that people are putting out now every day.
• 36:32
  That's one big thing. Another thing is understand that a lot of what you struggle with right now in life as an adult is a result of that trauma in the past, and that that trauma wasn't your fault, right? So no matter what type of unhealthy coping skill or struggles you have, whatever it is in your life, a lot of that we're learning more and more can be traced back to childhood trauma. And so, you know, do some research on your own behalf. You know, why do I feel this way?
• 37:04
  How is trauma related to this illness? How does chronic pain related to that, you know, past trauma? Like, do some research on your own and kind of get an idea of what you're up against so you haven't because one thing we always One thing I always like to say is that if you can put a name to something, a label to something, if you can identify something, it doesn't seem quite as overbearing, right? Cause you figure somebody else went through it cause they wrote about it. So kind of getting out of your own head and out of this mentality that you are in this alone is huge.
• 37:40
  And doing a little research goes a long way to help you feel like you're more in control and that you can kind of put a plan in place of some things that you can work on in your own life. Again, something free. Go online and then do some research as to why you feel certain ways and strategies to help me feel better because of this and all that kind of stuff. You'll find a myriad of resources available. And so again, reach out to the survivor chats, do some research on your own.
• 38:11
  Then I think one of the other things, and there's so many more, but one other thing is don't be afraid to dip your toe in the water and consider the possibility that reaching out for help might be a good idea. Because even now with all of the attention given to working with therapists and the Me Too movement and sharing your story. It's still scary to come out and share your story with somebody because you're going to feel judged, you don't know who you're going to hurt, you might get shame and backlash from your family, your friends, your coworkers. So you don't necessarily You're not always able to just say, Okay, I feel miserable. I'm going to go get help.
• 38:50
  And so if you can jump from A to B like that, then more power to you. But if you can't, then sit down and say, Okay, what would it be like to start to try and take steps to feel better? What would it feel like to not wake up miserable every day? What would it feel like to be able to reach out for help and get this stuff out of my head to somebody who's safe and can help me make sense of it? And so allow yourself to imagine the possibility of reaching out for help and what that would feel like a month from now, six months from now, five years from now, how much different your life might be if you reached out and made a call to a therapist or a coach, somebody who can help you make sense of everything.
• 39:31
  By taking those baby steps, it doesn't seem quite so overwhelming.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you for offering some hope.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I love it. I spent so much of my life not having hope that I love giving people hope now. Because hope is one of the biggest things about being a trauma survivor is if we don't have hope, then there's no point. So we have to have hope. Yes, yeah.
• 39:52
  The original website that started everything is called Surviving My Past. If you Google it, you'll find it. And I wrote a book called Surviving Grief, which takes you through the stages of grief as a trauma survivor. Grieving your lost childhood, grieving your lost innocence, grieving the past, grieving things from the perspective of being a survivor is something that I had to work through on my own and I continue to work through. So it's available free.
• 40:19
  You can just go to that website and download it. Just Google Surviving My Past and then you'll see a link right there at the top and on the side of the page where you can download a free copy and you can read it. It's a very easy read. It's not a very long book, but it takes you through the stages and the understanding that working through the grieving process, whether it's grieving a loved one, a pet, grieving your innocence in your past, whatever it is, it's not a linear process. You don't go step one, step two, step three, four, five, six and you're done.
• 40:49
  Like it's one, two, five, four, three, one. Like you're going back and forth and at a very different pace for each situation that you grieve. So, it kind of helps you just make sense of that a little bit and understand that it's important and necessary to go through that grieving process.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I had never thought of that before in context of applying grief to that lost childhood.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And the childhood that you never had because you were a victim of some type of abuse, yeah, that's super duper important. And it's very difficult. That's something that, you know, you work with or you work through with a a professional one. But this book kinda gives you some ideas of my experience with it.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: It's my pleasure, Emma. Anytime.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you want to share?
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Well, think it's really just, you know, we're all of us on this planet who are survivors. We're here just trying to get through the day to make sense of our life, to make changes in the areas that we want to improve on, or just see a different mindset with. And so really just don't be afraid to take some small baby steps in a different direction. The status quo of feeling familiar, of something that feels familiar and safe, is not always something that is healthy for you. So be okay with the possibility of dipping your toe in the water, of reaching out for help, and just seeing what it feels like.
• 42:14
  You might just find that it's pretty empowering and the difference that it can make in your life can be truly something that is remarkable. If you ever have any questions, if you want to learn more about the coaching and all that stuff, can just head over to beyondyourpast.com. That's my coaching website. There's links to the podcast. There's links to the daily calls.
• 42:34
  There's links to the books, all kinds of stuff. So check it out.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: My pleasure. Anytime.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before. Not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemspeakcommunity.com. We'll see you there.