Latest / Ridiculous History / The Founding of the Smithsonian, Part Two: James Gives America a Fortune -- and a Mission

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The Founding of the Smithsonian, Part Two: James Gives America a Fortune -- and a Mission · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
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  Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, the
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  Speaker 1: myth legend. Super producer, mister Max Williams. Who there it is,
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  Speaker 1: I'm Big Bullet, You're Noel Brown, And we couldn't be
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  Speaker 1: more excited about this incredibly cinematic and strange story we're
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  Speaker 1: exploring with our guests today.
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  Speaker 2: Oh man, it's such as it's a wild ride. There's scandal.
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  Speaker 2: It's like an episode of Bridgerton.
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  Speaker 3: So I hear.
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  Speaker 2: I've never actually seen Bridgerton, but I hear it's I
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  Speaker 2: heard sultry and vaguely historical. But this story, yeah, that's
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  Speaker 2: a bus This story not as many butts, a little sultry.
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  Speaker 3: Highly historical.
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  Speaker 1: So let's go to our conversation with Lizzie Peabody, the
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  Speaker 1: host and senior producer of the Smithsonians podcast Side Door.
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  Speaker 1: It is a tragic thing, even though it occurred so
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  Speaker 1: long ago, it's it's difficult to really understand that kind
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  Speaker 1: of trauma. Right. You know your father is alive, you
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  Speaker 1: know that society is looking upon you as an outcast,
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  Speaker 1: similar to how your mother was treated when she was
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  Speaker 1: when she was pregnant with you.
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  Speaker 3: I'm sorry really quickly. The moment in the movie is
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  Speaker 3: my father. He's alive. I never knew my father. I'm sorry,
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  Speaker 3: carry on. So what happens next?
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  Speaker 2: Oh me?
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  Speaker 4: Oh right, I guess I am telling the story. I
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  Speaker 4: was like, what does happen next? I'm on the edge
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  Speaker 4: of my seat.
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  Speaker 3: Cinema draw.
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  Speaker 4: No, Sean Connery does not get to be There's no
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  Speaker 4: Scottish Sean Connery.
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  Speaker 3: He can do an American accent. Have you seen the
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  Speaker 3: James Bond.
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  Speaker 4: Film to do a British accent? I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I'm just ragging on his sort of amorphous accent in
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  Speaker 2: the James Bond movies. But no, what truly does happen next?
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  Speaker 2: In the actual facts telling of this tale?
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  Speaker 4: So in the actual facts telling of this tale, the
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  Speaker 4: Duke of Northumberland dies. James Macy graduates from Oxford. He
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  Speaker 4: becomes a chemist and a mineralogist, and he's known as
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  Speaker 4: a nomadic bachelor who loved to gamble. He publishes twenty
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  Speaker 4: seven scientific papers. He becomes revered for his geologic study
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  Speaker 4: of Scotland's fingles, cave and he's just like this passionate
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  Speaker 4: He's just this passionate scientist guy who ambles around. There's
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  Speaker 4: there's a note of some hotel owner find him for
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  Speaker 4: like trekking a bunch of rocks and dirt in his
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  Speaker 4: hotel room. He was always collecting stuff. He just like
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  Speaker 4: a studying nature.
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  Speaker 1: He's a nomad for natural science.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I love the idea of a bad boy scientist, you know,
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  Speaker 2: he flouting the rules, writing his scientific theories on the
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  Speaker 2: back of cocktail napkins at the craps tables.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah kind of Yeah. And this was the age of Enlightenment,
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  Speaker 4: so scientists were actually celebrities. He was. He was kind
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  Speaker 4: of a rock star of the natural science world, and
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  Speaker 4: he kind of sought solace in science. You know, the
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  Speaker 4: laws of nature applied equally to everyone, and so he
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  Speaker 4: had this chip on his shoulder. He's sort of the
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  Speaker 4: way I figure he was thinking, you know, like if
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  Speaker 4: I can't have a family legacy, I may as well
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  Speaker 4: have one that's in science. And he really devoted himself
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  Speaker 4: to that. When he was thirty five years old, his
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  Speaker 4: mother died and he pretty much immediately changed his name
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  Speaker 4: to the Duke's original last name of Smithson.
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  Speaker 1: Ah, okay, so now maybe a lot of dickens. Enough
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  Speaker 1: time has passed, yes, right, and he has been as
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  Speaker 1: a as a man who has been quarreling with his
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  Speaker 1: identity and his position for the entirety of his life.
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  Speaker 1: He has this sort of crossroads and he makes the
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  Speaker 1: decision to sort of redefine himself.
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  Speaker 2: He's taking it back, right, Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, So he goes from being James Macy to being
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  Speaker 4: James Smithson and on top of that hit so not
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  Speaker 4: only is he making some great scientific discoveries, like he
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  Speaker 4: discovered a new mineral Smithsonit.
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  Speaker 1: Oh super humble to do with that? Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, well you know, now he had his name so briefly.
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  Speaker 4: Now that he had his name, I think he had
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  Speaker 4: to really make it count.
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  Speaker 2: He's going in, we say, Erica, I'm all with it.
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  Speaker 2: I'm behind him.
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  Speaker 4: Smith's to Night was actually important for brass production, and
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  Speaker 4: this was like the beginning of the industrial revolution. So
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  Speaker 4: he racked up a fortune. He's like making the big bucks.
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  Speaker 1: So now he's a Tony Stark figure.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, or actually I don't know. Is that a Game
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  Speaker 4: of Thrones reference?
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  Speaker 1: That's it's a comic book reference.
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  Speaker 3: I'm you know.
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  Speaker 2: So I used to call Elon Musk the monte Tony Stark,
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  Speaker 2: but they stopped.
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  Speaker 1: Do you know, we're a kind of a Mark Zuckerberg
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  Speaker 1: or Tom from MySpace, sort of sort of like the
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  Speaker 1: Ted Talkie crowd aspiration of a maverick, wealthy, very smart person.
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  Speaker 3: Also benevolence who has seen.
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  Speaker 1: His benevolent and pioneering That checks out. Okay, okay, so there,
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  Speaker 1: there we are. Our pal James is at the top
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  Speaker 1: of the world right on multiple levels here because as
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  Speaker 1: you said, he has this covered, a mineral that is
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  Speaker 1: powering part of the industrial revolution. Is that correct? Is
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  Speaker 1: that overstaving the car?
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  Speaker 4: I have no idea. I don't know enough about brass
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  Speaker 4: production to say for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, we got to call our brass guy.
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  Speaker 4: We got to Yeah, let's get a fact check on that.
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  Speaker 4: But I think it's sufficient to say, like it was
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  Speaker 4: important enough, people wanted it, and it made him a
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  Speaker 4: lot of money.
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  Speaker 3: There you go, there we go.
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  Speaker 1: All right, So now he is, despite the fact that
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  Speaker 1: he has not inherited assent from his biological father, he
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  Speaker 1: has made his own fortune.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yes, you love to see it, you really do.
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  Speaker 4: There's science through the pursuit of knowledge, you know, I know.
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  Speaker 2: And he also was like kind of you know, shoved
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  Speaker 2: aside for so long and denied his legacy and now
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  Speaker 2: he's built one of his own, accord, and yet he
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  Speaker 2: still did want that name, which I do think is interesting.
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  Speaker 2: If it were me, I would have kept my name
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  Speaker 2: and been like, screw you, dad, you know this is me.
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  Speaker 3: I did this. I don't need you.
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  Speaker 2: But I understand the times were different, and there was
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  Speaker 2: you know, there was sort of like an expectation or
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  Speaker 2: it was his kind of again taking back that power
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  Speaker 2: that had been taken from him.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so who knows exactly why I did it, but
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  Speaker 4: I think that's a pretty good bet. Sorry, that was
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  Speaker 4: like a very school army answer.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm just speculated, but I do think
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  Speaker 2: it's interesting that despite being kind of mistreated, he would
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  Speaker 2: choose to you know, push forth that name, and that's
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  Speaker 2: the name is everything in the story, right.
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  Speaker 4: I think it's also relevant that he changed it only
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  Speaker 4: after his mother died and right after his brother died,
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  Speaker 4: so it was probably out of respect for her feelings
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  Speaker 4: that he didn't change it sooner, But he had been
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  Speaker 4: lusting after that name his whole life probably, And.
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  Speaker 1: Again, yeah, he had been there was definitely anticipation. He
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  Speaker 1: had been waiting. And we also know to your excellent point,
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  Speaker 1: was he that he from earlier that he is even
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  Speaker 1: though he's very quite brilliant, right, quite a sharp guy,
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  Speaker 1: he is a product of society that is very much
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  Speaker 1: bloodline and lineage based. So now that's what I was
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  Speaker 1: getting out, Like, yeah, he very much establishes that's right.
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  Speaker 4: Right. So James Smithson was not going to make the
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  Speaker 4: same mistake that his uncle lumly had made and die
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  Speaker 4: without a will, So he writes his own will. He
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  Speaker 4: could have afforded lawyers, but he does it himself. He's like,
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  Speaker 4: I know what I want and this is it. And
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  Speaker 4: there's two James. Yeah, so James's And there's two clauses
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  Speaker 4: in particular that are a little unusual. The first is
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  Speaker 4: that all of his money will go to his nephew,
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  Speaker 4: and if his nephew dies, to his nephew's children, which
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  Speaker 4: could be legitimate or illegitimate, so he does not distinguish
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  Speaker 4: between the two. The second is that if his nephew
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  Speaker 4: has no children, the money goes to the United States
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  Speaker 4: of America. Okay, okay, and this is what he wrote.
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  Speaker 4: This is my James Smithson voice.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's gonna sound like Sean Connery.
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  Speaker 1: Sorry, sure, okay, let me try.
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  Speaker 4: I bequeath the whole of my property to the United
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  Speaker 4: States of America, to found in Washington under the name
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  Speaker 4: of the Smithsonian Institution, an establishment for the increase and
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  Speaker 4: diffusion of knowledge among men.
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  Speaker 2: Here here who couldn't who wouldn't support that? That sounds
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  Speaker 2: like an absolutely noble pursuit.
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  Speaker 1: And folks, let's hear it for the voice acting.
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  Speaker 3: It was very well too.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't even attempt an accent.
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  Speaker 2: I know my life, didn't overdo it. If they had
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  Speaker 2: profit toss, I think it was. I would give it
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  Speaker 2: eight out of ten.
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  Speaker 1: Now we're talking like film producers, you know what?
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  Speaker 2: Eight five eight point Wow?
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  Speaker 4: That sounds like great inflation. I think I am going
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  Speaker 4: to accept the eight.
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  Speaker 2: But not there.
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  Speaker 3: Oh wow.
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  Speaker 1: So with this, though, we see something that may sound
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  Speaker 1: a bit unusual. We're arriving at the genesis, the origin story,
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  Speaker 1: the evidence of the great Smithsonian as an institution. Lizzie,
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  Speaker 1: why would he do this? I see like the order
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  Speaker 1: of operations and scenarios, right, Nephew, nephew's kids. If no nephew,
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  Speaker 1: if no children, then boom this whole country.
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  Speaker 4: The United States of America. Yes, yeah, yeah, okay, So
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  Speaker 4: you know, he had never even been to the United States.
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  Speaker 4: Boats made him seasick, so he had never even He
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  Speaker 4: left all his money to this place he'd never even seen.
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  Speaker 4: But according to our experts, he saw the United States
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  Speaker 4: as the antithesis of the English society that had denied
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  Speaker 4: him legitimacy his whole life. America claimed to be built
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  Speaker 4: on democracy, you know, not aristocracy, and he was like,
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  Speaker 4: that is a project I can get behind. You guys,
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  Speaker 4: get my money.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, And really there though sort of an unproven thing,
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  Speaker 2: this democracy relatively.
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  Speaker 1: Pretty new, but it is definitely a bold experiment.
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  Speaker 4: I think he saw himself as like an early investor.
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  Speaker 4: You know, he was like, I really, I really want
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  Speaker 4: to support this project.
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  Speaker 1: So, as we know, despite this what seems to be
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  Speaker 1: a strange decision to the European society of the day,
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  Speaker 1: as we know, they.
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  Speaker 2: Also shunned him though right European society shunned him. He
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  Speaker 2: was saying, you know what, you don't get a penny,
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  Speaker 2: European society.
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  Speaker 1: This was as much against that society, as it was
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  Speaker 1: for this society that he never actually visited.
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  Speaker 4: This was a big bleep you.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there you get to the pre bleeps. I love it.
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  Speaker 2: No, that literally just went off like a rocket in
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  Speaker 2: my head, like that is what he was doing. It
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  Speaker 2: was the middle to the society that had rejected him.
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  Speaker 2: He's almost like a he's both a superhero and a
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  Speaker 2: super villain, depending on which side of the line.
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  Speaker 1: He's super committed to the bit, that's for sure. And
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  Speaker 1: this so okay, now, now, Lizzie, perhaps we assume the
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  Speaker 1: role of the people across the pond, right, is this
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  Speaker 1: a gift horse in the mouth situation? I'm butchering that,
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  Speaker 1: but you know the gift horse in the mouth? Is it?
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  Speaker 1: How do people respond with this strange, innovative, nomadic scientist
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  Speaker 1: who wants to give you a ton of money.
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  Speaker 4: Well, nobody actually knows about it yet because he's still alive.
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  Speaker 4: So the United States is like in the dark. So
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  Speaker 4: he writes up this will and then sorry, we haven't
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  Speaker 4: killed James Smiths and yet, so I just have to
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  Speaker 4: do that briefly, okay, ahead, Yeah, So he writes up
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  Speaker 4: his will and he's like, all right, dust off his hands.
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  Speaker 4: I'm done with that. He moves to Genoa, Italy, Genoa.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know Italy. Okay, Genoa, we'll go with that.
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  Speaker 4: And at the age of sixty four, after an illness
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  Speaker 4: we don't know a whole lot about, he died. This
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  Speaker 4: was eighteen twenty nine, and so his nephew inherits his money,
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  Speaker 4: as is the plan, and his nephew has no children,
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  Speaker 4: and only six years later, his nephew dies with no children.
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  Speaker 4: So at that point across the ocean, the baby government
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  Speaker 4: of the United States of America learns to their surprise
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  Speaker 4: that some dude they have never heard of has left
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  Speaker 4: them a kaboodle of money, and they're just like, wait,
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  Speaker 4: who and why and a British Man, we don't understand.
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  Speaker 4: They're actually highly suspicious because you know, it's only fifty
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  Speaker 4: two years before the US fought Britain for independence, and
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  Speaker 4: then only twenty one years before was the War of
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  Speaker 4: eighteen twelve when the British actually invaded Washington and set
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  Speaker 4: it on fire, So that was pretty alive in the
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  Speaker 4: memories of the people there.
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  Speaker 1: Right right. And then also, yeah, we can't blame the
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  Speaker 1: the politicians of the day for being somewhat skeptical with
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  Speaker 1: with this amount of money.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was the equivalent of like today's I don't
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  Speaker 4: catch about one hundred million dollars. Yeah, they were like,
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  Speaker 4: what are the strings attached here?
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  Speaker 3: One hundred million?
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  Speaker 2: You say, yes, okay, and this is to be like,
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  Speaker 2: like the idea would be to establish this is there
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  Speaker 2: an ongoing endowment or how does that.
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  Speaker 3: Part of it work?
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  Speaker 1: No?
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  Speaker 4: I think it was just to get it started. It's like,
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  Speaker 4: here's all my money, make something called the Smithsonian Institution
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  Speaker 4: for the Increase in Diffusion of Knowledge. You guys figure it.
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  Speaker 1: Out, which is other? Yeah, pretty pretty prof Yes. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's like when an executive producer walks in and says
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  Speaker 1: something with something with aspiration, maybe a bird.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gotta be work it out.
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  Speaker 2: Gotta say though, before we get to the stunning conclusion
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  Speaker 2: of this tale, clearly you guys took the ball and
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  Speaker 2: ran with it because Smithsonian Institution kind of a big deal.
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  Speaker 3: Seems to have done well by our boy here.
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  Speaker 4: You know, as the physical embodiment of the Smithsonian Institution.
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  Speaker 4: I thank you, you're welcome.
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  Speaker 3: I wanted to hear your weigh in on this.
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  Speaker 2: So what how Yeah, how do they set about doing
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  Speaker 2: this sort of vague like and how does one even
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  Speaker 2: hold like judge the criteria of doing such a thing
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  Speaker 2: with someone's money, Like are there boxes to tick?
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  Speaker 4: Like?
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  Speaker 2: They could have just phoned it in, I guess, but
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  Speaker 2: they clearly did not.
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  Speaker 1: The money moves, so I imagine one of the big
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  Speaker 1: things was learning first that it is a real sum
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and that changes the tenor of the conversation and being
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that it was, being that it was and is us Congress.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I imagine there was a lot of back and forth
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: once they decided it was real.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: Money shockingly had a hard time deciding what to do
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  Speaker 4: with all this money. They It took them a little
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: while too a great so in eighteen thirty eight the
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: money was boxed up ship to the United States, so like, okay,
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  Speaker 4: it's real here it is, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: No wire transfer, yea literally cash money shipped through the mail.
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  Speaker 2: This seems so terrifying when you think about it by
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  Speaker 2: today's stand.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and then it just sat there I don't know,
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  Speaker 4: at the Treasury wherever it would have sat for over
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: a decade while Congress tried to figure out what to
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: do with it. It took over ten years. They were like
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  Speaker 4: I don't know, okay, increase in diffusion of knowledge. Is
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  Speaker 4: it a university, is it a laboratory, is it a
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  Speaker 4: school for teachers? Is it a museum?
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  Speaker 1: Knowledge is the most important in priority right right.
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  Speaker 4: So eventually they did decide and on August tenth, eighteen
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  Speaker 4: forty eight, Congress pass legislation that created the Smithsonian Institution.
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  Speaker 1: Lizee, that's the day before my birthday. Really awesome, Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: You were born in eighteen forty six.
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  Speaker 1: We're not doing questions for the.
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  Speaker 3: But that's funny.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: But then myself and our co host on our other
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: podcast stuff that I want you to know all have
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: like August birthdays within days of one another.
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  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, it's a bunch of leos. It sounds
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: like not to bring astrology into the room.
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  Speaker 3: No, no, bring it. Some of some of that stuff
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  Speaker 3: is painfully real.
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  Speaker 1: Somebody in Congress was probably say, well, what's our take
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: on astrology? That's probably what James is focusing on. I
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: think the want to be. And then someone says, no,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: what about math? And he's like, you are such a virgo?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: What a budget.
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  Speaker 4: Way to bring it back to the story. That was
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  Speaker 4: a beautiful, beautiful segue.
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  Speaker 3: But as we know.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the Smithsonian Institution encompasses numerous facets of all
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: of this stuff, and obviously they didn't happen overnight. But
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  Speaker 2: I just think it's so cool. You got to start somewhere,
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  Speaker 2: and that's why I think the story is so fascinating.
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  Speaker 2: But you know what, what would the early day of
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  Speaker 2: this institution have looked like or if.
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  Speaker 4: It felt like well, it was the oh gosh, I
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  Speaker 4: should have done like this isn't aside, I should have
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  Speaker 4: done more research. It was the first national museum to start,
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  Speaker 4: so the Smithsonian was known as the National Museum in
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  Speaker 4: the early days, and it was but it was mostly
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  Speaker 4: built around scientific knowledge. The first Secretary of the Smithsonian
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  Speaker 4: was known as the Nation's Chief Scientist. That was a
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: role that we had for many years. So it had
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: a heavy science focus. But there was a lot of
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: back and forth in the early days between secretaries and
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: the secretary is sort of like the chief of the Smithsonian,
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: about whether it was a research institution or a museum.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: So there was a lot of push and pull, and
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: those early players had a lot of impact on shaping
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: the direction of the museum, and it was very It
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: was heated at times. That's a whole other story.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: You guys can get me back for that, so'd be thrilled.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: But there is an epilogue because remember we left James
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: in Italy.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Right in Genoa.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Now in that building, right, that red castle with the crypt, right,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: am I remembering correctly?
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: I remember it?
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: So okay. So in nineteen oh three, this was seventy
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: four years after James Smithson died the city of Genoa
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: was doing some renovations and they were going to bulldoze
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: the cemetery where he was buried. So they were having
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: to kind of relocate all these bodies and they were
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: kind of calling next of kid and all that to
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: be like, hey, come get your people. And so by
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: this time, the Smithsonian Institution was well established and the castle,
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: you know, was standing proudly on the National Mall. And
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: someone from the cemetery calls and is like, hey, we've
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: got James Smithson. He's like important to you. We have
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: your guy. Do you want his body? And the Board
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: of Regents, which is sort of the governing board of Smithsonian,
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: they were like, no thanks, that sounds really inconvenient, like
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: we don't want a corpse. Thanks, but no thanks. So
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: they're just like no, except for one guy, Alexander Graham
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: Bell is like no, he will we not leave.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: James listen to be bulldozed, right.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: The Alexander Graham Bell resumed a couple other things.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: He he did some work in hydrofoils. But he maybe.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Invented the mirror ball, a disco ball, Yeah, the smoking machine.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: He's the he's the guy. He's the creator of the casadia,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: you know, and and also loosely associated with the telephone.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: That's right, but that's his least well known thing.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of a deep cut.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: Who can compete with the disco ball. Once you've invented
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: the disco ball, everything else is down.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: He also invented that move with the one finger.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a little zig zaggy you know, it
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: goes with the ball.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Why, I'm sorry it was him. He took this
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: upon himself.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: He felt strongly about this, and he's like, I'm gonna
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: go save our boy our boys remains.
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, he felt strongly because he, like James Smithson,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: was a scientist and a philanthropist, and he felt a
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: connection to this guy. He felt like he'd done a
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: really great thing for the country and for science, and
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: he wanted to see his remains treated with respect. So
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: he was like, yeah, this is inconvenient and possibly expensive
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: and all that, but we owe it to James Smithson
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: to go get him. And he offered to pay himself
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: to go get his remains, and finally he got permission.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: Off he went on a boat to Italy. I think
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: his wife went with him. I think it was like
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: just the two of them off on this mission.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: And a romantic invention.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yea remains, do a little sight seeing.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: It's also a long journey, so he was very serious
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: about yes, yeah, not convenience, not hop in a flight.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: In my like cinema of the mind moment here, it's
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: like they're standing at the rail of the ship, just
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: like squinting to see the shoreline of Italy, and they're
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: they're each holding like large trowels. They're just like, yes, yes, ready.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: They're ready to dig, ready from home.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: They're disenturing and they're oh my gosh, you know what
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: they're having that Indiana Jones moment. Alexander Graham Bell looks
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: at his spouse and like points off in their rison
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and goes it belongs in a museum.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: So they do disinter zoom. I guess this remains bring
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: them back to the castle.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: Can't say if he did all the digging himself or what,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: but I think there was permits and some bribery and
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: it was harder than they thought. But they did eventually
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: bring him back and and you know once I mean
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: Alexander Graham Bell did most of the heavy lifting. So
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: once he actually got back to DC, President Teddy Roosevelt
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: was like, okay, okay, Well, you know, the Navy greeted
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: the boat at the entrance to the harbor, and the
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: cavalry met them at the dock, and the casket was
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: loaded into a wagon and draped in flags American and
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: British flags, and the marine band played, and the whole
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: shebang went up to the castle and they like drop
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: off the casket in the castle and they're like, okay,
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: what do we do with it?
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, they don't have a place for it.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: It didn't really It's a long trip they could have
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: maybe figured.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Out had the time, though.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: Is the thing, you know, I think it was one
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: of those things where you know, when like you know,
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: and your partners like, hey, I have this great idea
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: and you're like, I don't think that's a good idea
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: at all, but I don't think that you'll ever actually
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: do it, so I'm going to give you my full endorsement.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: And then they come back and they're like, hey, I
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: did this great thing, and you're like, oh, man, I.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Got that tattoo we were talking about. Remember last night
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: you said that I was just drinking.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: But here we are are Do you love it? You do?
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: So the twist is that I am that partner in
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: this story. I'm the one with low executive functions. So
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: my husband is always like, sounds great. You do it,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: knowing full well that I will never manage to do it,
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: but occasionally I do occasionally.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, you have you ever, Lizzie, have you ever been
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: in a situation where you say, Darling, would you like
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: to go to Genoa and let's say we pick up
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: a body.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: I haven't yet, but I have that one in my
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: back pocket.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: It hasn't presented itself.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: I haven't found the right body yet.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if I may. They don't know what to do
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: with it, so they just kind of take the path
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: of least resistance here, right.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: Right, So well, they first they do actually hold a contest.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: They're like, Okay, we don't know what to do with it,
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: people of America, what should we do with this?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: And people write it contayk goodness, the internet wasn't around.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Do you imagine named Ody mcbod fain right your suggestions?
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: Oh boy? Well, people had a real like high aspirations.
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: One of the one of the ideas was to build
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: something several times the size of the Washington Monument in
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: honor of Smithson, which would have been like it's like, yeah, yeah,
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: we have Washington and then even taller in the background,
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: we have James Smithson. But that didn't that didn't end
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: up happening. I think it was a budgeting issue. So
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: eventually what they did was they took the janitor's closet
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: right to the left of the main entrance and they
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: did a little light remodeling and they added a little
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: sign that says crypt and they put it in there.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: See in my theater of the mind, they just pasde like,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: took a sticky note, stuck it over janitor and just
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: wrote crypt on it with a sharpie like that's just
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: what my mind immediately can't get rid of that.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Did they move the you know, like the mops, the
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: buckets busy or did they just did they just like
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: place them on the Let's give credit where credit is.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Surely they made it crypt like your museum, like if
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: it's hanging on the wall.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: You know, I can't really say what it looked like
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: in those early days. But since they have added, you know,
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: they Alexander Graham Bell also brought over the tombstone from Genoa.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: So there's this like ten foot tall slab of marble
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: in there with his name on it, and there's some flags,
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: and there's some plaques now explaining like who he is
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: and and he himself is there at the very foot
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: of the of the monument, you know, James's remains are there.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I can see this, the remains of the James.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: The remains of the James.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, first stop, Okay, I hope you know now that
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I am going to lean on you heavily for my
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: itinerary for when I do.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Do this this eventual can the Smithsonian.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, later this year probably.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Well, let's go so with this.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: You can't. We're verifying that you can visit the remains
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: of the James today in DC. Is it open to
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the public? Or is it? What's the situation there?
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: So Smithsonian Castle is currently under renovation and will be
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: for several more years because it's old and needs a
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: little TLC. And so while it's under renovation, you can't
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: go inside. But normally and you know, post renovation, Yeah,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: you walk in the front door and immediately to your
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: left is this little crypt like alcove, and there you
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: can see James Smithson's well, you can't see his remains,
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: you can't see like his skull or anything, but you
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: could see the you know, the monument containing his remains,
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: and you can read about him. There's a little portrait
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: of him etched in marble, and you can have your
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: moment with the remains of James.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: What a fantastic story, What an amazing and I'm not
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: even a t empties sound hyperbolic, what an amazing journey.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: We've We've got characters from other historical events showing up
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: as cameos. This is a heck of a team up.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And Nolah, I don't know about you, but this is
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: something I was as a person visits the Smithsonian often,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I was not aware of this origin story.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I wasn't either, and I will say that I just
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I feel like this is a normal episode with a
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: siting with Smithsonian Institution. There is a fantastic article or
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: a I guess, sort of a record of James Smithson
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: at Oxford that has some of his papers and then
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: some really really great backstory about his time at Oxford University.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: But there's this fabulous portrait of him wearing like the
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: classic cap and gown kind of situation, with his legs
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: crossed and his breeches kind of showing, and he's got
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: these lovely pointy shoes. But just the portrait of an
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: academic he.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: Was thought to have style. He was described as sickly
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: and effeminate, so you know, make of that what you will.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: But he's a little pale here, but he looks stylish
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: as heck. He looks like David Bowie type figure.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I love that he's ahead of his time and he
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: and Lizzie. First, we have to say thank you so
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: much for sharing and exploring this story with us today.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: We know that you can hear the entirety of this
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: story in the episode of Side Door season seven, episode fifteen,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and Lizzie, in this episode of Side Door, you speak
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: directly with the aforementioned William Bennett, who received restored and
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: then deciphered this sheepskit that I mean that's true. Yes, yeah,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: it feels weird to say it that way. Yeah, we
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: should just use the name. But we can't thank you
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: enough for joining us, and we'd love to have you
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: back on the show. We'd love to join forces again
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: because light spoiler folks. As you know, Noel, there are
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: others stories that we're hoping to get to in the future,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: and we can't thank you enough. But we do have
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: to ask the question that all our ridiculous historians are
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: asking right now. Where can people learn more about side
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Door and where can they learn about your other work?
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: Well, they can learn about side Door at si dot
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: edu slash side door, which has our website, or by
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: following us on social media at side door pod.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: And yeah, curely the podcast is available anywhere you get
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: to oh yeah.
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: Anywhere you get your podcasts. All the usual suspects, and
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: we've got hundreds of stories. You know, science, are history, culture,
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: you name it. Surf around see if something jumps out
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: at you. But yeah, there's one story in particular I
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: think you guys might enjoy about the right brothers.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: We've talked about. It's in our back pocket. We can't
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: wait to do it. Hopefully, if this went well, you
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: get permission from the Brass, then we will absolutely come
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: back and do that, right brothers, Store.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: I also want to give a shout out to Heather Ewing,
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: who is Smithson's biographer, and we speak with her directly
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: in that episode too. She's she's a great interview. So
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: you can hear it from the horse's mouth. Sorry, Heather,
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: you are not like a horse in any way I heard. Regret, sure, regret,
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: regret nothing.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: There's no regrets that ridiculous history.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: And with that, folks, get thee to the podcast platform
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: of your choice and check out side Door as they'll
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: set available wherever you get your favorite podcasts. This has
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: been ridiculous history. Thank you, as always so much to
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: our super producer mister Max Williams uh and thanks to
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: well the Smithsonian a lot of episodes.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Thanks to the superproducer Max Alex Williams who composed our theme.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Christopherrasciotis needs Jeff Coates here in Spirit and aj Jacobs
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: The Puzzler and.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: On the Quizzer Jacob and Jonathan Jonathan Sirc glynd Ak,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the quistor, the sort of Duke of Northumberland, of our
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: show and of course thanks to you. Lizzie can't wait
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: to join you again in the future.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: You are welcome. It's been a pleasure. Enjoy the rest
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: of your segue ride.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.