Latest / Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU / Inclusivity in the EdTech Space: Jerri Kemble on Design Thinking and Empowerment in Education

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Inclusivity in the EdTech Space: Jerri Kemble on Design Thinking and Empowerment in Education · Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU

• 0:00
  Nisha Srinivasa: Welcome to the exceptional educators podcast by Frenalytics edu, where innovation meets inclusion in education. I'm your cohost, Misha Srinivasa.
• 0:10
  Matt Giovanniello: And I'm Machovanello, the CEO and cofounder of Frenalytics. At Frenalytics, we put special education and English language learners front and center. Our award winning Frenalytics edu platform helps streamline progress monitoring, improve communication and compliance, and offer truly personalized learning to your students of all abilities.
• 0:29
  Nisha Srinivasa: Each episode of our podcast features candid conversations with district and school leaders, classroom change makers, EdTech founders, and industry executives, all dedicated to transforming learning for each student, especially our learners with unique abilities. With a focus on extraordinary educators and the exceptional students they serve, we explore the latest in special education, accessible technology, and inclusive leadership. In this episode, Exceptional Educators is exceptionally thrilled to welcome Gerri Kimball, a powerhouse in the world of educational technology. Gerri has worked to pave the way for a better and brighter future in the world of education, most recently in her role at ClassLink and as a podcaster of the LinkedIn podcast. We are so excited to welcome you, Jerry, to our podcast today.
• 1:19
  Thank you for being here.
• 1:21
  Jerri Kemble: Oh, Nisha and Matt, it is my privilege to be here. And as I was listening to your intro, I was thinking back to when I was a principal, and I was thinking, where was Friendlytics? We needed you then.
• 1:34
  Matt Giovanniello: Preach it. That is so sweet. Thank you.
• 1:37
  Nisha Srinivasa: As a former special education teacher, I felt the exact same way when I first heard about Friendlytics. I was like, this is incredible. I would have loved that in my time as a teacher. Well, just to kick off our conversation with the three of us today, Jerry, I'm sure this is a question that you have thought about, but something I know I've heard a lot in my time is what is your why? And so we're going to start there.
• 2:00
  What is your why? What's bringing you to the world of education and educational technology?
• 2:05
  Jerri Kemble: My why is I want to make a difference. And that's always been my why. I've always wanted to make a difference, especially for kids. When I was in school, I'm one of those odd people that didn't like school. I didn't enjoy it at all.
• 2:21
  And so that was my why to go into education in the first place was, like, I think I could make this better for the kids like me that are just not digging school. Right? So that's always been my why, to make a difference.
• 2:35
  Matt Giovanniello: So you must not have hated school too, too much. I mean, you spend your whole career in education and educational technology, you certainly are better off for it, and the industry is better off for it as well. Jerry, you held a lot of roles. You were a teacher, a counselor, an assistant superintendent, a superintendent, and now you're running the show at ClassLink and evangelizing it and bringing first century ed tech to school districts, including the ones that you were at and to ed tech organizations. Among all those roles, you might be a little bit biased to ClassLink right now, but which one of those was your favorite and why?
• 3:05
  Jerri Kemble: You know, I know immediately which one was my favorite, and my favorite was being a school counselor. I loved the kids, and I loved being a teacher. But I loved the kids out in the hallway, I think, more than in the classroom because I could have those candid conversations, get to know them personally. And as a counselor, I really felt like I made a huge difference in the lives of kids. To give you an example, after I had a girl in my counseling office, and she left middle school and went to high school.
• 3:36
  And two years later, I got a letter from her telling me that I had actually saved her life, that she was going home after school one day with the intent of committing suicide. And she stopped in my office to ask if she could talk, and I was getting ready to leave. And I said, sure, sit down. Let's talk. And I said, now listen.
• 3:56
  I've got a visit with you again tomorrow. And she said, had you not said that, I don't know that I'd be here today. And now I follow her on Facebook. She has a beautiful family. She's doing great things in the world.
• 4:08
  And it's those kinds of things where you make that connection that I think was my favorite job. Superintendent is very impactful, but you don't get to impact on that individual basis.
• 4:20
  Nisha Srinivasa: And I loved that. Thank you for sharing that. I think that's a really clear example of the power and purpose that a lot of folks find within the world of education. I know I really relate to that myself. How do you find that sort of sense of purpose and passion and connect it to the current work that you're doing?
• 4:40
  Because it sounds like what I'm hearing from you is that connection is really valuable and important in this line of work in general, but also really specifically to you. So how do you continue to find that?
• 4:50
  Jerri Kemble: Well, before I left the school district, customers. And I was able to see firsthand how ClassLink made a difference in the lives of see that make a difference thing, I guess that is. That run that's my through thread. Right? Made a difference in classrooms.
• 5:06
  Teachers were saying, hey, thank you for not putting one more thing on my plate, but for actually taking something off the plate and making life easier. And so when I see that we are allowing for teachers and students to get into their resources, see what they're using, get all of that good information, it frees up time for them to do what's most important, and that is the relationship building and teaching and learning. So it's not hard to evangelize about that because I have seen firsthand the difference that it can make.
• 5:40
  Matt Giovanniello: And ClassLink has been pioneering the partnership model in almost in the entirety of its twenty five plus year existence, and I think has really paved the way for newer edtech organizations, ourselves included, to subscribe to that model and try to be more a partner in education versus the vendor customer mindset that I think has plagued not only the education industry, but so many others for far too long. In the battle of being patient and playing the long game in an era where everything is new, everything's exciting, everything is something we wanted yesterday, taking the the the dual hat approach of your time as superintendent versus your time at ClassLink, how are you thinking about, Okay, here's this really cool new AI feature that we need to get districts really excited and rallying behind, where AI is something that is still scary to lot of districts? How do we bridge the gap between, Hey, here's this new thing versus, need to wait it out to see if this is something I legitimately want? How do we get school districts kind of moving a little bit faster when the time is right versus embracing their desire to take it slow?
• 6:39
  Jerri Kemble: I think that there is reason why they are reluctant. But then I have always said, I have a daughter that's like one of those people that jumps in and wants to see how she can use it and get going. And she says people look at me like I'm crazy. And I say, you're not crazy. You're just first.
• 7:00
  And so I have to really give kudos to those districts that jump in ahead of time, and they really kind of make the mistakes and pave the way for the other districts to do a good job, especially in the AI world. Kudos to those that are trying it out, knowing that there are mistakes to be made, knowing that there are some security risks, but really paying attention to what they're doing. Because if we want to overcome resistance, I think one of the best things we can do is show great examples. And somebody's gotta be first, right? Someone has to jump in and be first.
• 7:39
  So if we can show those good examples, how it's working, how districts are using it and keeping students safe at the same time, I think that's so important. Actually building the mindset of the leadership is critical. The leaders really do set the tone. You've heard in a school, if the principal sneezes, the school catches a cold. Well, it's true.
• 8:04
  They do set the tone and get people moving direction. And so this one is so fast, though, because we're slow movers in education, right? We don't move at quick speed the way the world is moving. And we're going to have to. We're going to have to speed it up a bit.
• 8:22
  But I think that that that's one of the ways really to thank those that are jumping in and taking the risks. I am so grateful to them because they really do pave the way for the rest of us.
• 8:33
  Nisha Srinivasa: I know that in general, change is really challenging across all industry. Exactly what you were saying, given the context of the way that education and its momentum has moved throughout the years. Right? This sort of rapid evolution can feel really daunting.
• 8:46
  Matt Giovanniello: I think some might argue also those all lend itself to a great design thinking mindset. So I'm interested in knowing your definition of design thinking and how do you think it helps educators to address real world challenges that come up both in the classroom and those that lead themselves to potentially good at tech solutions that meet them where they are?
• 9:06
  Jerri Kemble: Yes. Oh, I love this question because I am a real proponent of design thinking. And I just wanna tell you a short story about kind of my involvement in it. In 2000 gosh, 1819, our Kansas Department of Education said we could redesign schools. And so schools were getting in and redesigning what they were doing.
• 9:31
  Our district didn't jump in right away. So I kind of watched for a year and I looked at the outcomes and they were all kind of the same thing. And I'm thinking this is not really redesign. This is just copy paste, copy paste. And so when our district decided to get involved, I had to actually petition the state to see if we could use design thinking instead and use a whole new model.
• 10:00
  Well, I'm in a university town, which was very lucky because we had a professor here, John Bielenberg, that's a design thinker. He's done a TED talk on it. He wrote a book called Think Wrong. So I approached him and said, John, would you come work with our district and help us do some design thinking about redesigning schools? And he couldn't get there fast enough.
• 10:26
  So we had student groups. He led parent groups. He led our faculty and our administrators all in separate little groups of design thinking. And we talked about what is it we need? What needs to change?
• 10:43
  What can happen. Oh my goodness. It was phenomenal. Now who do you think was most outside the box of all of these groups? Which group do you think was
• 10:56
  Nisha Srinivasa: way out The students. But
• 10:59
  Jerri Kemble: you're right. And who do you think was second?
• 11:02
  Nisha Srinivasa: Perhaps the teachers? Mm-mm.
• 11:03
  Jerri Kemble: No. It was the parents.
• 11:05
  Matt Giovanniello: Parents. Yes.
• 11:07
  Jerri Kemble: Parents were open. And what we realized was the administrators and the teachers were having the most difficult time with it, not because they can't think outside the box, but because they are so immersed in this. They went to school in this system. They're teaching in this system. It's just part of their DNA.
• 11:29
  Right? So it was so hard to stretch them to new levels. Also, the teachers said right off the top, don't have us doing all this work if you're not going to listen to us. That's kind of painful to hear. So they wanted to know if we're going to do all the work, make sure you listen to what we have to say.
• 11:49
  So we had to immediately build that trust and get that going as well. But once that started, the design thinking and the things that started to emerge from this were very different than what we were seeing from our colleagues around the state. We were seeing the high school say, really? Do they need to be in a seat for seven hours a day? Is that the only place you can learn?
• 12:16
  Could they come and go? And our kids were telling us, you know what we need the most? And this was pre pandemic. We need social emotional support. We had one girl on the panel that was living in her car, and she said, the last thing I need from my teachers is more busy work.
• 12:37
  I live in my car. I have two jobs. I try to be at school every day. Don't give me busy work. If you know I know the skill, let me off the hook.
• 12:48
  Those stories were powerful, powerful. And once the adults heard those stories from the students, it really changed the way that we were thinking. And what is all of that? That's empathy, right? And that's where design thinking begins.
• 13:05
  And so I love the design thinking. I'll share a little tip that John gave us that has stuck with me. He said, when you're design thinking, we have the status quo, right? This line like this. And MIT tells us the best ideas come after the most ideas.
• 13:23
  So keep going deeper and deeper and deeper and crazier and crazier and crazier. And he says, you need to be about this crazy because the status quo will bring that idea down. And it won't be that crazy, crazy idea because no one will be able to accept that. But they could accept one about here. So don't be afraid to just have some wild ideas.
• 13:52
  So that has always stuck with me and the thought that the best ideas come after the most ideas. Because sometimes we say, we can't do that. There's no way we would be able to do that, and we shut ourselves down. So having someone from the outside that was leading this design thinking process was really helpful too because he just kept pushing and pushing and pushing.
• 14:16
  Matt Giovanniello: I am so thankful for you to sharing that story from beginning to end because I found it so enlightening, and it was one of a few limited examples where I've heard design thinking implemented at such a large scale across the district, done so successfully. And even I bet the biggest of the skeptics, Jerry, bought into it, and that's how you achieve those real results. I'm fascinated by that. There's a quote that we use for the interns that we bring on for our internship program. It's from a product designer.
• 14:43
  His name is Sahil Bishnoy, and his quote is, Even if you see the solution immediately, challenge yourself to explore many different options. And it sounds very similar to the quote that you shared, and on its surface, when we were preparing our first ever internship program in which we embraced that quote, I wanted to make sure that there was some context behind it of, we're not trying to waste your time with exploring things only for you to return to where you started, but you need to reach that point in order to consider all of your options and really get to that point of thinking outside the box, especially for people where it doesn't come naturally to them, and they're not taught that way, and traditional systems never expose them to that type of thinking. So that's fascinating. I'm so glad you shared all of that.
• 15:24
  Jerri Kemble: Oh, one more quote that we have too is the Henry Ford quote. If we had asked people what they wanted when he invented the car, they would have said faster horses because they couldn't envision a car. Right? We want faster horses. And so I I think of faster horses a lot.
• 15:43
  It's something we can't even envision yet.
• 15:46
  Matt Giovanniello: Well right. And I think Steve Jobs in his visionary years of Apple, especially in the nineties and the February with the invention of the iPod, the iPhone, the MacBook, Like, that those series of product lines, I think he famously said something to the effect of, don't ask people what they want because they don't know. And for the for the line of products that Apple delivered and has become quite easily the world's most valuable company in this last stretch of its of its tenure, It was all because of fucking the trend and going against the status quo of ironically something we were talking about before, asking people what they want, but then being like, we need to consider other sources of information to see if we can even expand our line of thinking beyond that. So it's interesting how both of those need to coexist, and you've seen it done successfully.
• 16:28
  Jerri Kemble: That's right.
• 16:30
  Matt Giovanniello: So, Jeri, how do we bring this line of thinking to other districts, especially to those who don't even know it exists, this concept of design thinking within school districts, and how do we get buy in from those who might be aware of it but are skeptical? Tell us some stories about how you did it that might be inspirational to those who are trying to.
• 16:50
  Jerri Kemble: Sure. Well, I think again, one of the best ways to do it is to showcase some districts that are doing a good job, right? I can give you a personal story. We had an elementary school here that was really into design thinking, but they called it project based learning as well. And so we had a second grade class.
• 17:11
  They met with people that helped design the town, all kinds of businesses. And the kids decided that what they needed to build was a restaurant. So they took the project based learning project and created a restaurant. Some of them were graphic designers. Some fixed the menu.
• 17:33
  Some waited the tables. Some did all of these things, but they actually brought the restaurant to fruition for a few nights in the gym, and they served the parents and community, anyone that wanted to come, and the second graders actually ran a business. So this was so impactful. And we had other schools that wanted to come see what they were doing because this is second graders doing this kind of learning. Right?
• 18:00
  This isn't our high school culinary class. This is second graders. So we had a counselor from a neighboring district that was in the group, and they said, Why would you be here? You're a counselor. And she said, well, I'm just learning and seeing how I could use this.
• 18:18
  And she what she found out was this is exactly what we need to teach social emotional learning and all of those soft skills to students. Why don't my sessions with kids, my small groups, become design thinking project based learning groups where they have a project? It's real time. They learn how to get along. We're not doing a worksheet on it.
• 18:44
  We're going to actually do it. And so she started that model of actually doing that in her counseling. Now I know that it is very successful because she's my daughter. And I also know that we went together. Africa was where we went together.
• 19:04
  We were trying to connect our schools with an African village. And what we found out when we went was the kids wanted to do it. Oh my gosh. They, on both sides, wanted to learn from each other, be together. The problem was there wasn't any tech they had the infrastructure, but they didn't have the technology for the kids.
• 19:25
  So while we were there, she said, let's just buy a bunch of bracelets and jewelry that's really cheap. And when we get back, let's see what we could do with that, and I'll bring it to my kids. Well, the kids said, let's buy them iPads. Let's do that. So they had a jewelry sale, and they raised money.
• 19:44
  And the kids, oh my goodness, they made a website with the jewelry. They had pizza boxes. They took the pictures. They looked professional. It was incredible what they were doing.
• 19:56
  And they also reached out and found a company that refurbished iPads so they could get twice the iPads that they were normally going to get. And they let the parents know what they were raising the money for. And they raised twice what they needed and were able to buy iPads for that school so that they could start having those conversations. I just thought that was a great example of real world and really making a difference instead of filling out a worksheet and talking about what if.
• 20:28
  Nisha Srinivasa: I'm also a really big fan of project based learning myself. I used to work at a school that did a lot of project based learning. And I think I totally agree with you. And something that I heard you say was that kids want to learn, right? They really want that.
• 20:41
  They have that desire to do so. And that's sort of the way that designs and systems thinking can really support and leverage that feeling that students are having, right, that students do want to learn. I think it embraces that at the core. And so it also sounded like there was some themes surfacing around the way that technology also has that opportunity to bridge that gap between the desire to learn and the access. What is your opinion on that?
• 21:11
  How do you think that technology is continuing to serve as that bridge? What are some maybe other ways that you've seen it beyond that anecdote that you shared?
• 21:18
  Jerri Kemble: As a superintendent, I always said technology makes my poorest student rich because it gives them access to learn and personalized learning. I think I learned this best as a superintendent in the middle of literally a wheat field in Kansas. Very rural district. And we were able to get iPads right away in 2010 after they came out because we were small. We're nimble.
• 21:46
  We can make things happen, right, as compared to a large district. So we handed out the iPads in the classroom, and I would be in the commons area in the morning, and we had a little coffee shop there. So I'd get my coffee, and I would just sit there so kids could come and talk to me. Right? Well, one girl came to me and she said, how come we can't take these iPads home?
• 22:09
  And I said, why would you wanna take it home? And she said, well, I have really been thinking about the environment, and I want to make a slideshow to show the kids in the school how important it is for us to conserve things. And there's not enough time in the day, but if you'd let me take this home, I can research and learn about this, and then I could bring it back to the kids. And I said, oh my gosh. I said, but do you know how to use that slideshow?
• 22:35
  And she said, no. I said, I don't either, and I don't have time to learn how to use it. What are we gonna do? And she said, well, I'm just gonna have to learn how to use it and show you. And I said, okay.
• 22:47
  Well, in the days that followed, I had other students coming to me. Hey. I have an idea. I wanna learn this at home. I wanna learn that at home.
• 22:57
  Pretty soon before you knew it, I had this cadre of third and fourth graders that were helping their teachers integrate the iPad into the learning. Word got out about it. And the next thing you know, we are presenting around the state and these third and fourth graders are teaching teachers how to integrate the iPad. This is twenty eleven into their curriculum. And the next thing you know, we are side by side keynoting with Yang Zhao and at the State Department, showing them the work that these little kids are doing.
• 23:40
  That served to show a few things. Number one, if third and fourth graders can learn this on their own and take the initiative, we adults need to learn from that. We also need to learn that we're not the only teachers here. They can take this on themselves. And so how can we set up some guardrails to help them and to focus them on what they're doing?
• 24:04
  And how can we support them in their journey of learning. I think that there's so many things to learn from that story of how if we give students the technology, they will take the reins and they will begin their own journey. And when it's important to them, they really dig in. And it was just like that PowerPoint thing. She didn't know how to use it.
• 24:29
  I knew how to use PowerPoint, but I wasn't going to tell her I did because I wanted her to learn it. And she came back, and sure enough, she showed me how she learned to do it. So I think that that's important. And I think that when kids know that they're doing something that matters and they have an authentic audience and not just the teacher handing in an assignment, it really ramps up the learning even higher, higher level thinking, higher level learning.
• 24:59
  Matt Giovanniello: That culture of initiative and innovation, Jerry, is so special. And I think that if we're able to multiply that, we will hear stories of that happening at every district across the country with every great population, and it'll just get kids more excited about what they're learning within school to then apply it into all of these real world scenarios. I love that story. I I hope I continue to hear more of them. My question for you through this story to share, Jerry, is when we're thinking about our most vulnerable, our most underserved populations, how do we evangelize that crew as well?
• 25:28
  How do we say you can instead of you can't? How do we get those groups of students to participate and to try and achieve similar outcomes where maybe they haven't been given the chance traditionally, but now they're being put to the test.
• 25:39
  Jerri Kemble: Right. Well, I'm thinking that we now have some tools that will empower teachers to empower the students better. The AI tools can really relate the subject matter to whatever the interest is of the student. It can differentiate the instruction, the reading level, so that all students can be a part of the conversation, can be a part of the learning. And I'm hoping that our teachers are able to use these tools to save some time to differentiate for each and every student so that they get exactly what they need.
• 26:15
  We haven't had that capability before, and I think that that can really change the game and the way that we are doing the game of education. So I'm hoping that those tools will fall in place. I see them as so important for our students with special needs.
• 26:32
  Matt Giovanniello: On the topic of empowering not only students with disabilities within the classroom, but also other underprivileged populations, I know you're a big proponent of women supporting women, especially in business and especially within EdTech. Tell us a little bit about some of the initiatives that you've taken on through your podcast, through your position at ClassLink, and even outside of work that is helping promote women in technology and business and in EdTech.
• 26:57
  Jerri Kemble: I'm so glad you asked this question because it it's something that's become very important to me in the last few years. We are so lucky at ClassLink that our leader, Behrs Eakin, is a thought leader, and he really does want to empower women in ed tech. And that has been a focus. And so each year, we have a summit called Women in Technology, and we bring women together in San Diego for a few days. And we just have sessions where we talk about ways to empower women and to support each other in all of this.
• 27:31
  I know that it's not new news that, women don't have the number of roles that men do in this this area. And so we talk about ways that women can actually help each other. And unfortunately, sometimes we are our worst enemy. There's a thing called the queen bee syndrome where women might think that only one woman can be at this high level. There's not room for both of us here.
• 27:58
  And so we try to uncover some of those things and talk about really look at yourself. Are you supporting other women? We also like to talk about ways that you can support other women. And it can be things as simple as sending someone a note, inviting them to work on a project with you, sharing a YouTube video that you think that they might like. But it can also be supporting them behind closed doors when they're not in the room and being a sponsor for them and saying, hey, I've noticed Jill is really a great communicator.
• 28:34
  She might be great for this project. And really supporting them and helping to lift them. So I've been fortunate to be a part of several women events recently, and I've been working on a concept I call the firefly effect. You know those people that walk in a room and they light it up and everyone just kinda wants to be around them. Right?
• 28:57
  They're like a firefly in the dark. They just light the way and and make people excited to be there. I think that if we can collect a lot of fireflies in our jar, and that's men and women, people that light up our life, and it's in different parts of our life, our professional, our personal, whatever it is. And we have them in our jar that when the days get really dark, our life never goes dark because we have these people that we can lean on and reach out to to help light the way for us. And I also believe that when we're lighting the way and blazing the trail, we are making it okay for other people to start blazing that trail as well.
• 29:43
  Like that quote I said, you're not crazy. You're just first. People think you are crazy sometimes, but it is those trailblazers that are making it happen for others and lighting the way. So that's become very important. I've been thinking and working with other women as to how can we make this happen maybe globally?
• 30:05
  How can we make this happen in virtual webinars? What can we do to empower more women and to create this collaboration of building each other up and connecting each other so that that we can take our place at the table?
• 30:22
  Matt Giovanniello: Love that analogy of building and capturing fireflies and using that to to kinda multiply your agent of change. And I think not only does it take one to know one, but it takes one to build others. And you're a firefly, Jerry. I sincerely do that. Like, you are just such a a force to be reckoned with in the absolute best of ways.
• 30:39
  And I think that an organization like Cost Link, for you to be able to evangelize those efforts of empowering other women, both men and women, to empower others through an organization and doing it independently, you're firing on all cylinders and you'll really be able to meet the mark of that of that mission by taking those collective efforts where, you know, one person individually might not be able to to fully increase a mission. But when you bring all of these different groups together, you'll be that much more successful in your efforts to do so. I'm so glad that you have Barish and the ClassLink team behind you. That is that is the group to help make that happen.
• 31:16
  Jerri Kemble: It is. And and I love that they are so forward thinking, and that mindset is so open to empowering others. I'd love that. It's it's a good fit for me.
• 31:28
  Matt Giovanniello: It oh, it absolutely is. And I I think as Steve Jobs' quote went during the height of his tenure at Apple, something along the lines of those who are crazy enough to think that they could change the world are the ones that do. And that sounds really similar to you're not crazy. You're just first. And people might think you are until you prove them wrong.
• 31:45
  So keep proving them wrong, Jerry.
• 31:47
  Nisha Srinivasa: I will.
• 31:48
  Matt Giovanniello: I will. I so appreciate you sharing that story. Thank you for joining us today. As we wrap up, I have one more question for you that we ask all of our guests. Especially as one, a former educator in the highest of levels, I'm interested in knowing what does being an exceptional educator mean to you?
• 32:06
  Jerri Kemble: Oh, that is a great question. I think being an exceptional educator is igniting a passion in people, finding out what their passion is. I think you can kind of see that thread through all of my stories that letting people see what their passion is and then supporting them to meet it, Whether it's taking an iPad home at night, redesigning a school district, whatever it is, it can be something so simple. An educator is really a guide on the side that's that's helping make it happen and getting to know the people they're working with so that they know what those passions are, know what those strengths are, and know what the weaknesses are so they can push them in the direction to become the best that they can possibly be.
• 32:58
  Matt Giovanniello: That's fantastic. And as an exceptional educator yourself, there's no better person to be able to preach that and and spread that that positive energy and that that directive. Thank you for spending your time with us. Thank you for sharing your insights, and, thank you for letting your voice to this show. It'll help us reach exceptional educators just like you everywhere and and hopefully inspire somewhere along the way.
• 33:17
  Jerri Kemble: Thank you, and thank you for the work that you're doing. This is a real need, and I love when we can empower educators to empower kids.
• 33:26
  Nisha Srinivasa: Well, thank you so much, Jerry. It was so great to connect, to hear your story, and to hear the wonderful experiences, that you've brought and shared with us today. The work that you're doing is so powerful and impactful. I was so deeply appreciative to hear everything that you're doing in the world of education and technology. And so thank you so much for sharing that today.
• 33:46
  Jerri Kemble: Well, Anisha, you are in the trenches doing the good work. So keep it up.
• 33:51
  Matt Giovanniello: There we go. That's the mission, and that's the mantra. Jenna, thank you, and thank you for listening to today's episode of exceptional educators. We will catch at the next podcast.