Latest / The Imperfect Impulse w/Bree O'Connor / S 3 Ep 5 Control Vs Boundaries

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S 3 Ep 5 Control Vs Boundaries · The Imperfect Impulse w/Bree O'Connor

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Imperfect Impulse with Bree O'Connor.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm your host, Bree O'Connor.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: After recording and editing the last two episodes,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel there's more to say about participating in and contributing to
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: and holding good spaces that
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've just decided to keep talking about it until I feel I've exhausted my things to say.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of thoughts on the issue,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: mostly because I feel a lot of the spaces that I've been in,
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: especially since the pandemic,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: that were not my own spaces, were difficult to navigate.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if you listen to the last two episodes,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you understand by this point that I am not a big fan of a lot of rules.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that has been the response to Me Too and the strife throughout
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: the pandemic and beyond.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of this conversation about how we conduct ourselves in
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: the theater is really necessary.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk a little bit about where rules come into play because I think
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: that has been the knee-jerk response here is if we see a problem then we make
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: a rule.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: We have a trigger that enacts that rule and we create safety nets and mechanisms
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: for accountability and
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as a parent,
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know that when you have very complicated mechanisms
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: that your children are absolutely frozen and not entirely sure how to behave
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: without you directing their every move.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see a lot of professional or older groups going,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: but I do see a lot of younger groups falling into this trap.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that pushes these episodes here.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to share a little bit of my Gen X experience in younger spaces.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that a lot of rules does is Is that it takes decisions off the table.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: It pulls away your ability as a person, as a colleague, to say yes or no.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or to change your mind.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give a concrete example.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this was led by a much younger person,
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: so I do understand The intent here,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: but I was once in a room with about 10 other cast and crew and in order to gauge
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: in rehearsals We were all instructed on the concept of,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it was gates and fences.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea is that a fence means that's a no-go,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: don't ever touch me there, don't even look at me there, that's a no.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: A gate is a place that's negotiable and we can negotiate consent.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that's fine to define that for yourself and I think that there's some value
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: in giving thought to where you have sensitivities.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: However this was conducted as a group exercise.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Each of us was led to express what parts of our body were gates and what parts
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: of our body were fences and I can see maybe if you're doing an Intimate scene
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: with one other partner that that's a useful conversation.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: However,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: if I'm in an intimate scene with a partner and I have to go through
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: a very kindergarten exercise to express where I am comfortable and not comfortable
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: and setting hard and fast rules that may change for me while I'm in the midst of
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: the scene, I find that very uncomfortable and limiting.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Both for my partner and for me.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And to make those decisions in advance,
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: well, I can see if you are carrying trauma that that's a useful conversation.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: However,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: if you are carrying sexual trauma that has been not dealt with,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I question the wisdom of participating in that kind of work to begin with.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's a scene you should say no to from the get-go until you're ready to tackle that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: for a paycheck or any other reason,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: push yourself to confront that before you're ready.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So having that discussion feels a bit infantilizing.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my perspective as a Gen X woman.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know that younger generations or even people my own age may feel differently.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I can begrudgingly concede to that discussion at the top of a two-person,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: maybe three-person intimate scene would be useful.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not my cup of tea, but I will gladly participate.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But in a group of ten people...
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: All expressing their gates and fences to the wider group in a scene in
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: which you aren't having intimate contact feels number one like overkill.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Number two,
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: as we discussed previous episodes when we talked about priming,
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I find that bringing those specific sensitivities into
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: a grander group Primes everyone to feel on edge that they may be transgressed upon
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: or perhaps do some transgressing.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure that it's conducive to the creative process to put that idea
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: in people's heads that this is a place where we are transgressed upon
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: or we are transgressors.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a very limiting space.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Another issue with doing that in a room with 10 people is how the hell are you going
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: to remember everyone's gates and fences?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: If that's your job to suddenly remember where every member
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: of this 10 person group Everyone has sensitivities and everyone is different
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: and everyone has taken about 30 to 45 seconds to express these complicated,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: personal, very personal boundaries.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's just a recipe for shutdown.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I feel that the more prudent approach that allows people the ability
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: to say yes or no to anything and stop the assembly line because of their own sense
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: of safety at any time,
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: then the world is more open to you and it's less about policing transgression and
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Than it is about supporting everyone's safety.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: The key here is not to try and anticipate every single problem that may arise.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because honestly,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: those rules that are,
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: oh, we've had this problem in the past, so now we're making this rule.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those are all reactionary.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they're all responding after the fact.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: As opposed to dealing with the people who are right here in front of you right now.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Assuming that other people are going to make the same mistakes
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: as previous groups have made is frustrating and disheartening as a performer
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: and even as a crew member.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in both of those positions and it can cause a lot of anxiety.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there have been several studies that have talked about trigger warnings and
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: that trigger warnings very frequently cause the anxiety that they're trying
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: to prevent.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: The reason is it's like the rooms that we talked about.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't listened to the last two episodes, I'll recap this idea here.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I had talked about an experiment in which A person would walk into a room
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: of random strangers and on the room would be a sign like argumentative or pleasant
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: and they would go in,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: see the sign and have a sort of semi-structured interaction with this group
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: of people.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now the group of people who are inside the room Have no idea what the sign says outside.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: However,
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: the energy that that person who has seen the sign,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: they are primed with an expectation of the people who are in this room
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: and they will interpret and respond in a way that confirms the note on the door.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: If they believe this is going to be a pleasant group of people,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: they will Interpret and respond accordingly.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: If they are told that these are going to be argumentative people or backstabbers
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: or whatever,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: they're going to come to the room with that lens on, with their guard up.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: When we want to create an open, responsive, flexible space...
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is antithetical for us to create a space in which there are so many rules
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: for interaction that we can't keep track and that we are primed to be fearful
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: or overly cautious in this room.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: We do better, especially as actors, as theater makers.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: We do better in an open,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: supportive,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: and courageous,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: curious space than we do in a room with a lot of rules and restrictions.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Then that does beg the question, you know, how do we keep this space safe?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: How do we prepare and feel safe enough to Be vulnerable and express their current experience.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Even if that may be, oh wow, that touch makes me uncomfortable.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: That word triggers me in a way, ooh, when you did that thing, I wanted to punch you in the face.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because we need to be able to express those things.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: We need to be able to report on our self-awareness.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And be in touch with our scene partner,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: with our director,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: with everyone from costume and lighting design so that we feel
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: that we can do our job and respond as honestly as possible.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that we're supported when we do so.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I've done a lot of explaining of like what not to do,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: what's a difficult and complicated space to navigate.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: But what does it mean to have an open yet still supportive structure?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And what does it mean for us who facilitate those spaces?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: What assumptions can we make?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do we help prime everyone for the most positive experience possible?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of that has to do with Our initial interactions with our cast and crew.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: That means are we responsive to questions?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Are we preparing them for what to expect?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have all the materials from us that they need?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do they know when things are going to be happening?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: like being able to Have our planning done and our ducks in a row,
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: both in terms of how we're going to approach the material,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: what order we're going to be doing it in,
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: what we expect from the rehearsal process,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: what questions we want them to be asking themselves
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: while they're doing their preparation for the first read.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: All of those communications Really help them feel like there is a container for
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: the work that is strong enough to take whatever that they experience.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever they dish out,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: whatever they volley back and forth,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: whatever ideas and feelings that come in that this space can hold them.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that starts with our communication up front.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: It starts with our preparation.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do we have the breakdown of the script and each rehearsal planned out?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Are we sensitive to their needs for time?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are we making sure that and communicating how breaks will work?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Are we communicating times of day and what sort of facilities are available so
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: if they are In the indie world,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: it is not uncommon to work from 6 to 10, and an actor's got to eat dinner.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So are we making plans for dinner?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Are we leaving space for dinner?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a refrigerator or a microwave on site?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of information goes a long way.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: To making everyone feel like they're being seen as a full person and
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: that their full selves can be accepted and embraced in the space.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I frequently provide some kind of snacks and not everyone avails themselves of
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: the fruit or what have you that I bring into the space and that's fine
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: but They appreciate knowing that I have taken into account
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: that their bodies need fuel and that they need rest and that I am thinking of them
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: in that capacity.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that opens the space up a lot.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: It goes a long way to engendering trust between myself and my cast and crew.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what everyone's going to do?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, you may not have that kind of capacity.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I say that to illustrate being clear on what you are asking of the whole person.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not just showing up from 6 to 10.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's showing up from 6 to 10 after you've had a full day of work or you've been
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: with your kids all day or you've had to transfer your kid to some...
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Nighttime caregiver.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: There are a whole bunch of things that happen with a whole person that becomes part
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: of the space and that is part of your concern as well.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: You should get to know those things because that means you are creating a space
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: that is responsive to the person, to the full person.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: That means they're more likely to bring the full person into the space.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not just the actor part, not just the collecting a paycheck part, but a full person.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: That makes for better performances.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you see how none of that has anything to do with rules.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: None of that has anything to do with placing specific demands for or restrictions on
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: the types of behavior that are acceptable.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: By the way you treat them in the first part of the process, they will mirror you.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are approaching them with concern and respect for their whole being,
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: they're going to model that for you in the room.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is a huge part of the work that sets the tone for everything to come.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you are in chaos and And you might be like, let's face it, chaos is a part of the process.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're not handling the chaos well,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: and you are laying that chaos on your cast and crew,
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: you're about to have the cast and crew throw that chaos back at you.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: None of that has anything to do with rules that has to be
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: That you are giving out what you would like to receive.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: That means you get to show up in the space as a whole person.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You get to show up with honesty and integrity.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you get to respond to them in ways that are truthful.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if that means you're having an off day as a director or a producer or
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: a choreographer or whatever,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: and you If you can mirror the behavior that you would like them to see,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you that if you have done the lake work in advance and you are prepared
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: to cover the material, that your cast and crew will mirror you.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that comes from zero rules or regulations.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, sometimes you need those rules and regulations,
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: and it's important to communicate them clearly,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: but make them minimal and easy to follow.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Russell G. Jones,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: who is a beloved New York actor who also runs a An organization called
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: The Blind Spot,
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: they do workshops with different organizations around conversations about race,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: racial injustice, and the complexities of having a racial identity.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one of the rules that Russell has at the beginning of every salon is assume
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: that everyone is here in good faith.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love that rule.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's very broad and it's very simple and it's easy to understand.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So when you start to feel your temperature rising or you're getting hot or triggered
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: for whatever reason,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: if you remind yourself everyone is here in good faith,
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: then suddenly how you respond to that trigger is different because you might respond
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: with
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Calming breath, giving yourself a little space to respond, haha, and respond with what?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Authenticity.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: That authenticity compels you to say, that statement made me very uncomfortable.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: It made me a little afraid and I Would love it if you could either explain further
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: or rephrase that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're curious about why I'm struggling with what you just said, let's talk it out.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: That that is very different than just yelling back.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yes, when we're in a scene, sometimes characters yell at each other.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean yelling never happens.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: But yellings can happen between the characters as long as
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: The actors are understanding one another and that it always remains just play.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just pretend.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what safety is.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: The safety is that our characters are going to go through some really rough stuff together.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm here to support you as an actor to stay in the circumstances and
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: that I will never actually hurt you.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I may get very angry, but I'm never gonna punch you.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always gonna work with your safety in mind.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you can develop that as a structure,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: as a universe inside which the work can take place,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: You are going to have very truthful performances and very tight-knit casts.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen it happen even when casts have members
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: who don't particularly like each other or really want to hang out.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're not the tightest of friends.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: But as colleagues and co-workers, they have each other's back.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that is what you want to build.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so as I said,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've just resigned myself to talking about this until I exhaust all my thoughts.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you have thoughts, comments, questions, please feel free to reach out.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can leave a comment.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can send me a message.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can keep listening and hope I'll explain myself.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if you found this material useful or effective, please share.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's how we grow our listenership.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's how we hopefully spread the good word.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: I am hoping that you're able to find something positive here on the Imperfect Impulse.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Bree O'Connor, and we'll talk to you next week.
• 24:29
  We'll be right back.