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Trump, Lawmakers Clash on AI Safety · Balance of Power

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  Speaker 6: A lot has changed just in the last 24 hours
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  Speaker 6: with that story.
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  Speaker 6: We'll get back to Charlie in about 10, 15 minutes
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  Speaker 6: 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. So we're hanging out for about
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  Speaker 6: 90 minutes today. We'll kick things back to New York
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  Speaker 6: for coverage on the announcement. We'll come at 2 and then,
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  Speaker 6: of course, we'll have the news conference that follows at
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  Speaker 6: 2.30 p.m. we'll distill all of this later in the
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  Speaker 6: late edition of Balance of Power.
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  Speaker 1: But these numbers are interesting. We're getting a little bit
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  Speaker 1: of a relief.
• 1:00
  Speaker 6: In the oil market, slight pullback with interest rates, and
• 1:03
  Speaker 6: that's allowing some things to rise that we haven't seen
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  Speaker 6: gain ground in a bit, almost 1% higher on the
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  Speaker 6: NASDAQ right now. But it's AI that's consuming Washington today,
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  Speaker 6: just at the same time as Kevin Warsh prepares to
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  Speaker 6: stand before reporters, including Michael McKee, who is in town today,
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  Speaker 6: Bloomberg's own representative, squaring off with the Fed chair. How'd
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  Speaker 6: you like to be Kevin Warsh today? The whole market
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  Speaker 6: betting odds around what you're about to do and say.
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  Speaker 6: Everyone's having a conversation about your credibility. You just barely
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  Speaker 6: got one meeting under your belt. We'll be hearing from him,
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  Speaker 6: and we'll let Mr. Warsh speak for himself when the
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  Speaker 6: time comes. Washington is speaking about AI, though. With 48
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  Speaker 6: days to the election, this is all of a sudden
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  Speaker 6: an emergency. And I'm so compelled. I was talking to
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  Speaker 6: producer James about this earlier, about how quickly this whole
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  Speaker 6: thing has turned. Eight weeks ago, this was not even
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  Speaker 6: a conversation. Yes, data center was a NIMBY issue. And
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: that's followed us right through the primary season, which, by
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  Speaker 6: the way, is mercifully over. Delaware yesterday, last one. But
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  Speaker 6: it's gone way beyond data center. Now we're talking about
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  Speaker 6: the existential threat against humanity as we know it. And
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  Speaker 6: so there's a big call, as you've been hearing, for
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  Speaker 6: guardrails to go up. And yes, lines are being drawn because,
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  Speaker 6: of course, it was Dario Amadei and Sam Altman who
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  Speaker 6: got this whole thing going last weekend.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it was two weekends ago now. No, it was
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  Speaker 1: last weekend. This has been days in the making. Elon
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  Speaker 1: Musk says Dario's right.
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  Speaker 6: But now we're hearing from Mark Zuckerberg, who has a
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  Speaker 6: different take on things, kind of middle ground, thinks that
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  Speaker 6: we ought to be able to test our own components
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  Speaker 6: without some massive government oversight. Jensen Wong was talking to
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  Speaker 6: Kramer last night. He said, we don't need any new
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  Speaker 6: AI laws here. There's nothing to see, and we will
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  Speaker 6: not all be dead by 2030. There are a number
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  Speaker 6: of approaches here on Capitol Hill. Even John Kennedy, the
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  Speaker 6: senator from Louisiana, he's got a kill switch bill. The
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  Speaker 6: problem solvers are up with something now. In fact, they're
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  Speaker 6: going to join us on the late edition here. Mike Lawler,
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  Speaker 6: Josh Gottheimer, a D and an R, New York, New Jersey.
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  Speaker 6: They're up with their own legislation and a working group
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  Speaker 6: to create a framework for AI. And by the way,
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  Speaker 6: I'll remind you, they couldn't even get the crypto framework done.
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  Speaker 6: So let's not hold our breath too much for this.
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  Speaker 6: But helping to capture the moment yesterday, as I mentioned,
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  Speaker 6: was the former secretary of state who I talked to
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  Speaker 6: at length, at world headquarters in New York.
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  Speaker 1: Antony Blinken on Heating the Warnings. Listen.
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  Speaker 7: This is like.
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  Speaker 8: The wizard's telling you something's rotten in Oz. We ought
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  Speaker 8: to listen and pay attention when.
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  Speaker 1: We hear that.
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  Speaker 7: And the reality is this.
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  Speaker 8: This technology is moving at a speed that we can't
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  Speaker 8: even begin to wrap our arms around. We regulate the
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  Speaker 8: airplanes flying in the skies. We regulate the nuclear power
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  Speaker 8: plants producing power for us. We regulate the stuff that
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  Speaker 8: we put into our bodies through pharmaceuticals.
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  Speaker 1: AI has the potential.
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  Speaker 8: Both for incredible good, but also for terrible consequences if it's.
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  Speaker 1: Not properly guardrailed.
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  Speaker 8: I'm convinced we can do this in a way that
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  Speaker 8: doesn't set back our innovation, that doesn't set us back
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  Speaker 8: in the race with China.
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  Speaker 6: That, of course, though, is a balancing act. And Washington
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  Speaker 6: is not very good at balancing anything these days. Shep
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  Speaker 6: knows what I'm talking about. He covered Washington for years
• 4:31
  Speaker 6: in the world of politics, diplomacy, and is now Got
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  Speaker 6: the coolest beat in the building covering all of this
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  Speaker 6: stuff for us as our senior editor for technology and
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  Speaker 6: strategic industries.
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  Speaker 1: It's good to see you.
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  Speaker 7: Good to be back, Joe. I think of it as
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  Speaker 7: the hottest beat.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly right.
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  Speaker 7: Given all the heat and light and everything else.
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  Speaker 6: For good and bad, I guess, right? I mean, you're
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  Speaker 6: in the middle of this storm right now. And the
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  Speaker 6: last 24 hours has been wild. Think of all of
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  Speaker 6: these legislative priorities that have suddenly emerged. in the hopes
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  Speaker 6: to get something done before the midterms. But they're about
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  Speaker 6: to leave town, and that's a tall order. I'm just
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  Speaker 6: wondering what your thought is today on the direction of
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  Speaker 6: this conversation, because it's getting more complicated.
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  Speaker 1: As Zuckerman.
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  Speaker 6: drops his opinion. Jensen Wong weighs in now. Who are
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  Speaker 6: we supposed to be listening to?
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  Speaker 7: It's really hard to decide.
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  Speaker 9: And a lot of people are choosing, just like with
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  Speaker 9: other areas of politics, who they want to listen to.
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  Speaker 7: We do see a lot of the revert to the mean.
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  Speaker 9: And if you think about how President Trump has approached this,
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  Speaker 9: he has been vehemently opposed to regulation just as a
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  Speaker 9: rule of thumb through his administration and his first term
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  Speaker 9: in office as well, And that is applying certainly here
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  Speaker 9: in this case. But what we're seeing this time around also, Joe,
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  Speaker 9: is this proximity that he has to the tech industry.
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  Speaker 9: You mentioned Jensen Wang. There was that phone call between
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  Speaker 9: the president and Jensen Wang on the stage of the
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  Speaker 9: all-in conference on Monday.
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  Speaker 1: That's right.
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  Speaker 9: Jensen puts it on speakerphone. They are really in alignment there.
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  Speaker 9: And also the president's former top AI advisor, David Sachs, Also,
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  Speaker 9: really influencing a lot of the conversation within the administration
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  Speaker 9: and reinforcing this theme that, look, we can't put guardrails
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  Speaker 9: on this technology now.
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  Speaker 7: It's too important to the U.S. economy.
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  Speaker 9: The data center build-out is something the president has talked about.
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  Speaker 9: And it's even more important to the competition with China
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  Speaker 9: to dominate AI.
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  Speaker 7: And, of course, Joe, with the meeting with Xi Jinping
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  Speaker 7: coming up.
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  Speaker 9: Yep. the president really has to be thinking, look, I
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  Speaker 9: can't have any obstacles in my way heading into that chat.
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  Speaker 6: There is a data center bill that's actually getting a
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  Speaker 6: vote today, which is something that we're watching that would
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  Speaker 6: compel tech companies to cover utility costs. But it's the
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  Speaker 6: AI stuff I want to focus on. And another kill
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  Speaker 6: switch bill, I don't know why we need more than one,
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  Speaker 6: but John Kennedy is up with his own. The Republican
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  Speaker 6: from Louisiana, would require AI companies, as I read this,
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  Speaker 6: to maintain the ability to shut down their own systems.
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  Speaker 1: Is this real? Is that possible to have a kill switch?
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  Speaker 1: How would it work?
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  Speaker 9: It's unclear exactly how it would work, and I would
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  Speaker 9: love to hear Silicon Valley firms' view on whether they
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  Speaker 9: just have some giant thing in the wall that you would...
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  Speaker 9: Snap down like in the movies or a big red
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  Speaker 9: button you would push.
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  Speaker 7: That was easy.
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  Speaker 9: But I really, you know, setting aside the practicalities of
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  Speaker 9: how it would work, we just simply have to be
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  Speaker 9: realistic when we look at the calendar.
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  Speaker 7: The house leaves tomorrow.
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  Speaker 9: Yeah. They don't come back until after the election. Mike
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  Speaker 9: Johnson has ruled out the idea of doing a special
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  Speaker 9: session to address AI. And then after the election, Joe,
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  Speaker 9: they're going to have to deal with the defense bill.
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  Speaker 9: That could be a vehicle for perhaps adding some of
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  Speaker 9: these AI measures as attachments.
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  Speaker 7: But we all know how that goes. It gets complicated.
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  Speaker 7: Very messy.
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  Speaker 9: I think we're in the stage right now where there's
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  Speaker 9: a lot of spaghetti being thrown at the wall and
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  Speaker 9: largely in response to this groundswell of safety concerns. When
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  Speaker 9: you think about it, Joe, the data center bill and
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  Speaker 9: addressing the broader economic dislocation questions that are prompted by AI,
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  Speaker 9: that's much tougher. That is really a lot harder to
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  Speaker 9: kind of get your heads around. It requires some real spending.
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  Speaker 9: But then when you talk about safety, that's a little
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  Speaker 9: bit easier just to kind of order that you must
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  Speaker 9: do this or you must not do that. And yet
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  Speaker 9: even those measures are going to be difficult to get
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  Speaker 9: through because there is little consensus right now. And we're
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  Speaker 9: also looking, Joe, at an administration that is not interested
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  Speaker 9: in having the conversation or in passing any regulation.
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  Speaker 6: Well, I think about my conversation with Howard Lutnick two
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  Speaker 6: weeks ago at the AI Innovation Summit, G20 in North Carolina.
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  Speaker 6: Data centers do not use water, he said. Trust Sam
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  Speaker 6: Altman and Jensen Wong. Trust Dario. He also told us
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: that Anthropic had righted its relationship with the government. And
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  Speaker 6: it doesn't sound like Donald Trump believes all of that.
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  Speaker 6: You start wondering. if there's a split within the administration
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  Speaker 6: and how broad that is between commerce, treasury, the president himself.
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  Speaker 9: Well, it's unclear who's actually leading AI policy overall. And
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  Speaker 9: in the end, it does come down to the president himself.
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  Speaker 9: And during your interview with Howard Lutnick, and if our
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  Speaker 9: audience hasn't caught it, it's definitely worth a view and
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  Speaker 9: a listen. He did say that the president himself was
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  Speaker 9: involved in conversations and helping Anthropic to use.
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  Speaker 7: The secretary's words, get religion.
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  Speaker 9: Now, it does seem like they may not be on
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  Speaker 9: side anymore after this missive over the weekend from Dario Amadei. Clearly,
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  Speaker 9: the president, who name-checked Amadei in one of his many
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  Speaker 9: Truth Social posts on Monday, said, is not happy.
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  Speaker 7: And we do know, we.
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  Speaker 9: Had a scoop overnight from our colleague Maggie Eastland and
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  Speaker 9: Shereen Ghaffari, that Lutnick and Emil Michael from the Pentagon,
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  Speaker 9: who has led previous discussions with Anthropic, had had a
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  Speaker 9: conversation with the top Anthropic officials.
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  Speaker 7: So we'll want to see where this goes.
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  Speaker 1: And this is a company that wants to go public
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  Speaker 1: this year?
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  Speaker 9: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: You better not go home, Shep.
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  Speaker 7: We've got a lot more to talk about.
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  Speaker 1: We'll have to read that S1 closely for risks.
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  Speaker 6: Michael Shepard, ladies and gentlemen, Senior Editor, Technology and Strategic Industries,
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  Speaker 6: getting us off the launch pad on the Wednesday edition. Yeah,
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: it's Fed Day. Stay with us on Balance of Power.
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: We'll have much more coming up after this.
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• 10:34
  Speaker 6: These trucking stocks are really something and what a perfect
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: encapsulation of everything that we're talking about here.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: $ 6.
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: 31 for diesel. And we keep hearing it's going to
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: go even higher. Crack spreads remain the story, even as
• 10:50
  Speaker 6: crude oil prices drop. Cost of gas keep going up.
• 10:54
  Speaker 6: Triple A. $ 4. 36 for the rest of us. Fortunate to
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: not be burning diesel in the car. Did you hear
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: everybody's going home? This is just about an hour ago.
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: Everyone's going home early for recess. If you didn't hear
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: about this, the memo went out from the majority whip,
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: Tom Emmer. Members are advised the House is now expected
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: to consider... H.J. Resolution 213. And upon completion of today's
• 11:21
  Speaker 6: legislative business, votes are no longer expected in the House tomorrow,
• 11:25
  Speaker 6: September 17th.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Hey, guess what? You can call the airline. Get the
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: heck out of here. Seven weeks. Seven weeks.
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  Speaker 6: The memo concludes by saying this is a change from
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: the previously announced schedule.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Well, now, why would this happen?
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: I didn't even plan to talk about this, but we'll
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: get to it. There was An effort to impeach Pete
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: Hegseth hit the floor tomorrow. This is a Tom Massey special.
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: Speaker Johnson sending everybody home for the seven-week campaign recess
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  Speaker 6: so as to not see a vote on these articles
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  Speaker 6: of impeachment, it seems, until November. So we're going to
• 12:03
  Speaker 6: keep talking to lawmakers. We've got two coming on the
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  Speaker 6: late edition today. Mike Lawler and Mr. Gottheimer are going
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  Speaker 6: to be here to talk about their AI problem solvers approach.
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  Speaker 1: Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey, Mike Lawler.
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: From New York, they're getting together as a problem solver
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: working group on AI. That's one of about 10 AI
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: stories coming out of Washington today. Senator John Kennedy, who
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: I could listen to read the phone book and still
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: be entertained. He's got his own bill they're introducing. Well, today,
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: everyone's going home. Well, the House is. Requiring AI companies
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  Speaker 6: to maintain the ability to shut down their own systems.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, we're back to the kill switch idea.
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  Speaker 6: And it has been remarkable to watch Republicans and Democrats
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: kind of collide on this issue. Brought into full form
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  Speaker 6: yesterday with the likes of Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon
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  Speaker 6: on the same stage.
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  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: Not at the same time, but making the same point
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: when it comes to data centers, and what they see
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  Speaker 6: as the existential threat from this emerging technology.
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  Speaker 1: Listen.
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  Speaker 3: A super intelligent AI that escapes human control will not
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: simply be an American problem. It will not be a
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  Speaker 3: Chinese problem. It will be humanity's problem.
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  Speaker 1: This is like the nuclear age. This is like Russia
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and the United States.
• 13:34
  Speaker 10: They stood up to the Soviet Union, and the first
• 13:37
  Speaker 10: thing in standing up to them was to choke them off.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And that's what we have to do today to the
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party. No deals, no agreements.
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  Speaker 10: You're out of the AI business because we're going to
• 13:51
  Speaker 10: shut your ecosystem down.
• 13:55
  Speaker 6: Wow, that was the pro-human assembly, by the way, foreshadowing
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: the ticket for 2028.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Sanders-Bannon on the bumper sticker. Would that be Bannon-Sanders? Not really.
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  Speaker 6: But it says a lot when they're both singing from
• 14:14
  Speaker 6: the same hymnal at the same podium. And I'm deeply
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: curious to hear what our political panel thinks. I haven't
• 14:20
  Speaker 6: talked to him for a minute, and I'm glad to
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: say that Rick and Jeannie are both back with us.
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis, our Republican strategist and partner
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: at Stonecourt Capital, and Jeannie Shanzano, our Democratic analyst and
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. both politics contributors.
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: I could start with either of you guys. Jeannie, tell
• 14:41
  Speaker 6: me what's going on here. Do you think they hung
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: out backstage? Are they sharing ideas on AI, Sanders and Bannon?
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  Speaker 6: This is quite a moment, isn't it?
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was quite a moment.
• 14:52
  Speaker 11: And I think it just shows you how much angst
• 14:55
  Speaker 11: there is across the aisle. It's not just Democrat. It's
• 14:58
  Speaker 11: certainly not just Republican across the aisle when you get
• 15:01
  Speaker 11: Bannon together with Bernie Sanders. And, you know, the last
• 15:05
  Speaker 11: clip you just played, I think this is the question
• 15:09
  Speaker 11: I have. We keep hearing and I heard your great
• 15:12
  Speaker 11: discussion with Mike Shepard a few minutes ago. We keep
• 15:15
  Speaker 11: hearing that the president is opposed to any kind of guardrails.
• 15:19
  Speaker 11: because it could hurt the economy and also because we
• 15:22
  Speaker 11: need to win this competition with China. But does that
• 15:27
  Speaker 11: make any sense when we think about the fact that
• 15:29
  Speaker 11: he suspended AI export controls? He allowed Chinese AI companies
• 15:34
  Speaker 11: to buy semiconductor chips. In other words, how is it
• 15:39
  Speaker 11: that we have this argument from the president that we
• 15:44
  Speaker 11: need to keep this up because China is going to
• 15:46
  Speaker 11: beat us? And yet we're providing to China the very
• 15:50
  Speaker 11: technology they need to beat us, which raises a question.
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  Speaker 11: What is the real reason the president is opposed to
• 15:58
  Speaker 11: these kinds of guardrails or regulation? Because it's certainly if
• 16:01
  Speaker 11: you look at what he's done, doesn't seem to be.
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  Speaker 2: A concern about China.
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  Speaker 1: Is Washington too late here, Rick?
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  Speaker 6: What do you make of all these proposals that are
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: that are falling out of the trees right now with
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: 40 something days to the midterms and a great hope,
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: I guess, by both parties here? You've got a bipartisan
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: effort underway to do something before voters hit the polls
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: in November.
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  Speaker 1: Nothing's going to happen, is it?
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  Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean, certainly not between now and Election Day.
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  Speaker 4: And by the way, there's been lots of legislative initiatives
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  Speaker 4: on AI and data centers that are floating around waiting
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  Speaker 4: for action. So I do think the reason we're seeing
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  Speaker 4: it now is because we're starting to see public reaction
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  Speaker 4: to this really become very polarized. You can't find support
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  Speaker 4: for AI or data centers anywhere.
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  Speaker 2: In the United States under any constituency.
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  Speaker 4: And so I think the memo got to the hill
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  Speaker 4: and they've started figuring out we've got to do something.
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  Speaker 2: But like recess is a strategy.
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  Speaker 4: So the speaker has made a decision to send everybody
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  Speaker 4: home without even a head wink toward, you know, some
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: kind of a debate around AI. And that's going to
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: cause people at home because what are they going to
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: tell folks when they see him?
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: They're going to go around and campaign.
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: And one of the very top questions outside of cost
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: of living is going to be, what are you doing to.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Stop the AI from destroying our lifestyle?
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: So, Rick, have you ever seen an issue? I won't
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: even ask you why. Maybe you think it's Chinese influence.
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: Maybe it's the actual CEOs issuing warnings themselves. Have you
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: ever seen an issue where metastasize as quickly as this
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: one has in a matter of weeks to go from
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: something we weren't really talking about outside of a NIMBY
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: thing with data centers to being the most important after
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: the economy issue facing Americans.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, first of all, public opinion moves
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: faster than it used to. I mean, we're inundated with.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: So much information, so much disinformation, you know, that it
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: really moves the electorate. And so this is a really
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: good example of that. I mean, you know, maybe the
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: opposition to the Iraq war over the two years of
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: the first two years of the Trump-Bush administration.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: That moved pretty quick, right?
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: This is two months.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: And so, no, it's not showing up if you ask
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: people Give us your top five issues. It's not in
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: any of the five. But when you ask them about it,
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: they're like, are you kidding me? Of course we're opposed
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: to this. And so it's one of these things where
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: it's not a top of mind issue.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: But when you probe it, it is a complete loser.
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: Axios got its hands on this new memo from Tony Fabrizio,
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: the Republican pollster genie. Rick was talking about this a
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: couple of days ago. offering Republican candidates talking points on
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: this issue. Many of these Republican candidates were 100% pro-data
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: center a moment ago. And that's just not a viable
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: position anymore, it seems, as he specifically advises candidates not
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: to say, quote, I support building more data centers.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: It'll be clipped and shown up in ads, he says.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: And you know that's right.
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: Instead, Republicans who support AI infrastructure must point to developers
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: paying for their own power needs. We've heard this from
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: a lot of lawmakers on the air. Protect consumers from
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: higher bills and safeguard local water and natural resources, as
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: opposed to when Howard Lutnick joined us two weeks ago
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: and said data centers don't even use water.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Jeannie, is this enough for voters?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: It's a start.
• 19:35
  Speaker 11: I mean, I can't imagine how Tony Fabrizio feels hearing
• 19:39
  Speaker 11: the president, you know, describe this as a hoax and
• 19:41
  Speaker 11: a conspiracy. I mean, he's been going on and on
• 19:44
  Speaker 11: about this. And this, you know, Axios released this today.
• 19:48
  Speaker 11: But to Tony Fabrizio, credit, he has been saying this
• 19:52
  Speaker 11: for at least over a year now. on this very issue,
• 19:56
  Speaker 11: data centers and AI. He has been talking about this,
• 20:00
  Speaker 11: but he is sort of on the Republican side screaming
• 20:02
  Speaker 11: into the wind as it pertains to the president. Not
• 20:05
  Speaker 11: so much, though, governors and candidates at the state and
• 20:08
  Speaker 11: local level who have been much faster to talk about
• 20:12
  Speaker 11: exercising a little bit more careful support, talking about putting
• 20:19
  Speaker 11: up guardrails. We have, whether it's Ron DeSantis, whether it
• 20:23
  Speaker 11: is Greg Abbott or some others, They have said that. And,
• 20:27
  Speaker 11: you know, I would just to underscore how widely unpopular
• 20:31
  Speaker 11: this is. The New York Times had a great analysis
• 20:35
  Speaker 11: of Truth Social, Joe, where they found that I think
• 20:39
  Speaker 11: there's six million users on Truth Social or thereabout. They
• 20:42
  Speaker 11: tend to be huge Trump supporters. And by all accounts
• 20:46
  Speaker 11: in their postings, very supportive of the president. Four to one,
• 20:50
  Speaker 11: they are opposed to what he has been saying about
• 20:53
  Speaker 11: AI regulations and data centers. Those are astonishing numbers. And,
• 20:58
  Speaker 11: you know, I do think we have seen things in
• 21:00
  Speaker 11: the past in public opinion move this quickly. Rick mentioned
• 21:03
  Speaker 11: opposition to the war. And that's what I think of
• 21:06
  Speaker 11: when you think about war and conflict, when people feel
• 21:10
  Speaker 11: like the country is under threat, they seem to.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Respond this quickly.
• 21:14
  Speaker 11: And that's how many people are responding to the issue
• 21:18
  Speaker 11: of AI regulation, because while they're called doomers and all
• 21:22
  Speaker 11: these things, people say if there's, you know, even a.
• 21:26
  Speaker 11: 001 % chance this is going to have a huge
• 21:29
  Speaker 11: negative impact on our lives or destroy humanity, we would
• 21:32
  Speaker 11: hope government would stand up and do something.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I did see that story in the New York Times.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: It was remarkable.
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: It made me wonder if the president reads the comments
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: on his own posts. Also, duly noted, the New York
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: Times used AI to actually get the data for that story. Rick,
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: do you believe that China is poisoning the well on this?
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: Has there been a disinformation campaign, as the president suggests,
• 21:55
  Speaker 6: or is this Americans just looking at the reality and
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: reacting to it?
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: Well, I think that China is using social media to
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: create disruption in the American society every day. And when
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: they find an issue like this that you can drive
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: a truck through, they're going to.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Pilot that truck. And so I don't think it's a surprise.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: To anybody that we're not inundated with misinformation from the Chinese.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: And by the way, add Iran to that category and
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Russia and North Korea. These are people who spent a
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: lot of time trying to divide the United States. And frankly,
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: I think in many ways, they've been incredibly successful. I
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: hate to say it, but we don't have an active
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: defense force against the cyber espionage that's going on in.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: The United States.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Well, this has been a really interesting conversation, and boy,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you better not believe it's over.
• 22:50
  Speaker 6: Rick Davis and Jeanne Shanzano, always prepared.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: Make sure to subscribe, if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: And you can find us live every weekday from Washington, D.C.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg.com.