Latest / Take1.5 Podcast: Stories from the Messy In-between / Why So Many of Us Struggle with Family & Emotions | Haley’s Story 엄마도 사실은 상담이 필요하지 않았을까?

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Why So Many of Us Struggle with Family & Emotions | Haley’s Story 엄마도 사실은 상담이 필요하지 않았을까? · Take1.5 Podcast: Stories from the Messy In-between

0:00
When she's talking to the therapist about her childhood
0:02
and how she grew up, it was so like shocked.
0:05
Like it hit me so huge to hear her talk about stories of her
0:11
childhood and feeling like that's exactly what my childhood
0:15
was like and realizing she was just parenting the exact way we
0:20
were saying when she was parenting.
0:29
I am a former teacher and now currently still work in
0:33
education, but also an actor and writer as well.
0:37
Like what? Kind of acting like TV stage?
0:40
What? To commercial and TV film.
0:44
Oh, do have you we seen? No, nothing that you'll have
0:47
seen. I mean maybe eventually some
0:49
stuff's like being edited, but nothing like major network wise
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yet. Yet that's right.
0:56
That's exciting. I'm impressed that you are like
0:59
exploring different types of creativity in your life.
1:03
Yeah, yeah. That's new for me too.
1:05
Yes, this is all kind of like in the last couple years.
1:07
So I found you on Instagram. What was more surprising for me
1:11
was that you were actually sitting with your first
1:13
generation immigrant mom talking about this issue.
1:17
So I was intrigued by that and I really wanted to talk to you and
1:22
hear from you with what that experience was like.
1:25
What kind of started this whole journey was my mom and I came
1:29
into a conflict where she did not agree with like the life
1:33
decision I was making. And most people like my friends,
1:39
other people seem very obvious like you should just do what you
1:42
want. And that was absolutely
1:45
impossible for me. And for a bit I tried to do that
1:48
and it, we actually didn't speak for many months and it created a
1:53
huge rift between US. And that's when I realized, oh,
1:59
it's maybe not normal that I feel this level of
2:02
responsibility and, and burden to do what my mother thinks that
2:08
I should do. And it was really, really
2:13
difficult. Like I, I didn't get diagnosed
2:16
or anything, but I think what I have the closest thing to
2:19
depression. Like I was completely numb.
2:21
I, it was, I was in a very dark place.
2:25
So it made me like question everything about our
2:27
relationship of, you know, and a lot of resentment of how can
2:32
she, how can she say she's my mother and, and love me and yet
2:35
be putting me through this when I'm not doing anything wrong?
2:39
So working through that, it was honestly like I feel like my
2:43
life is a before and after of that time period and I ended up
2:50
doing what she wanted, but I told her like I feel I will
2:55
never forgive you. Like I feel so much resent and
2:58
like you bought what you wanted, but I now now our but the cost
3:02
is our relationship. You know, like this is something
3:05
you need to like you, you are in the wrong here.
3:07
And even that was like things I'd never said to my mom, like I
3:11
was pretty really obedient child.
3:15
So this is the first time I kind of went the like went the
3:20
opposite of the kind of dog I'd always been.
3:25
And she actually, you know, in that time where we're not
3:28
speaking, she's finally suggested like, well, if you I,
3:33
I would be open to going to therapy together if I was like,
3:37
I was her way of trying to say like she's sorry.
3:40
And then I struggled with that for a long while speaking to my
3:42
own therapist. And I was, I said, why should I
3:46
go to therapy with her? I already see you.
3:49
I already see my therapist. Why should I have to go again
3:52
when she's the she is the reason why this is the problem.
3:59
My therapist was she was a a Thai American immigrant, but
4:03
English was her second language. And so I think she's also a bit
4:06
a little bit older. So she had some mindset
4:09
commonalities with my mom generation that was really
4:12
helpful. And she was very validating an
4:14
understanding of my feelings. And then but also said, you are
4:17
at a place of healing for yourself.
4:20
And you can either be the path for your mom to also heal or you
4:27
can just be right and things just be the way they are.
4:30
Yeah. Do I care more about being right
4:33
and like, or do I care about actually finding some kind of
4:37
healing from this, even if I feel like I have to sacrifice?
4:41
It was only three, but they really changed our entire life
4:45
and our entire relationship, right?
4:47
But it also was a lot of us having to communicate with each
4:50
other in a way that we never had.
4:52
Tell me a little bit about what your family was like.
4:54
You said in the beginning. Yeah.
4:55
I thought this was just like, every family's like this.
4:58
What like can you tell us a few things?
5:01
Yeah, so my mom was very strict or both my parents were like,
5:09
it's funny, I, I wrote about this once that I don't actually
5:12
have very many like happy memories of childhood.
5:16
Like what sticks with me are like memories of being punished.
5:21
Like I remember I forgot my and she's going to be so mad.
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She's like, you make me look like a mean person and I'm not
5:27
going to. I'm like, sorry, that's what my
5:30
dream remembers. Wonderful, lovely, very funny,
5:34
human. And she was very harsh at times.
5:39
And so I remember one time in elementary school, I left my
5:41
backpack on the bus and I was a very forgetful child.
5:45
I still am. I'm adult too.
5:46
I'm just very all over the place.
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And I came home without the backpack.
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I didn't even know I'd forgotten the backpack.
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And she comes in and I come in and I'm like, you asked me that.
5:55
And then she's like, where's your backpack?
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And I'm like, right. And I like run back to the bus
6:02
is gone. And she like had me stand with
6:05
my hands over my head for 30 minutes, right?
6:07
And like screaming at me about how.
6:10
Forgetful you are. Stupid.
6:12
Can you be able? Well, you didn't even know it
6:13
was gone on your back, right. So things like that were like
6:17
the punishment was just a lot more severe perhaps than the
6:22
crime per SE. It was normal to me.
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And so I grew up just wanting to be very good and wanting to
6:30
please. And I was a very shy child,
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partly I think because of I grew up in AI was one of only a
6:42
couple of Asian kids and the things I would get in trouble
6:45
before I started to notice, like in middle school, like, oh, my
6:48
friends are doing worse things than me, but their their parents
6:51
are never mad at them. My parents seem to always be or
6:54
like they're bringing home season.
6:55
It's fine. And I'm bringing home AB and I'm
6:57
getting in trouble. And I think in high school there
7:03
was a shift and and that my mom brought this up in therapy and I
7:06
didn't realize that a shift had happened.
7:07
But when I thought back, I was like, oh, yeah, you, you
7:10
weren't. You did start being different
7:12
around high school. And apparently she had taken
7:14
some kind of personality test and she got 1 result.
7:18
And then she saw that I, I got the complete opposite result.
7:22
And she, she realized, wow, like Haley's just a completely
7:26
different person than me. And how hard must it have been
7:29
for her to be raised under the roof of some because she's very,
7:33
she's super organized. She is doesn't lose track of
7:38
anything. She's very precise, particular.
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And I'm, like I said, the opposite.
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And so she'd always be yelling at me to fix this or fix that.
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And why does this look like this?
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And why are you always forgetting everything?
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And until she realized that's just who I am.
7:51
And so after that, I didn't even notice in the time.
7:55
But yeah, I was allowed to go out a lot more.
7:58
She was less controlling, yeah. So things did shift around that
8:03
time. And so I, I really, we'd had a
8:05
good relationship in my mind because she was not doing what
8:08
she was doing when I was younger.
8:11
How about your dad? Yeah, my dad, he, my mom runs
8:16
the house. So my dad, like there were times
8:19
where he would kind of assert his authority, but my mom's
8:22
emotions, even he was scared of her.
8:25
It's like if my mom and nobody in the house is going to have a
8:28
good day and where we were kind of the allies of like kind of
8:32
like who did it this time, me or you Relieved.
8:35
It was the other one she was mad at.
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He's very, he's very even keeled guy.
8:39
He was always a lot more patient, but but in terms of and
8:45
I think they switched like he might have been, he's actually
8:48
my step, my step dad, but I don't refer to him as my step
8:50
dad because they got married when I was super young.
8:53
It's like I've always just seen him as my dad.
8:56
But there was a time where I kind of resented him because I
9:00
wondered about my biological dad and felt, you know, you're not
9:03
my real dad. So why are you telling me what
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to do kind of thing. My mom and I have relationship
9:08
kind of overpowered things and and there were times where that
9:12
became a conflict because my dad would feel left out because he
9:17
would make decisions with me or like we would have agreed to
9:19
something and he wasn't part of the conversation.
9:22
So are you an only child? Yes, yes.
9:24
So was your you and your mom. Very tight, very close.
9:27
But at the same time, she was controlling your life, and she's
9:32
tried to anyway. Yeah, and they were.
9:34
They got married when she got married with my dad when I was
9:37
like 5. So there was a long period where
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it was just her and I. Yeah, so.
9:41
She kind of was all I knew and she was my, like, hero, yeah.
9:46
And I know their siblings, so she was all I had.
9:50
Did you learn later on why she was being so protective or or
9:54
overly protective? Yeah, I mean through therapy,
9:58
that was what was most revealing to me and and really helped me
10:02
to understand and forgive her. And it's not that I'd ever it
10:08
wasn't that I need an apology for and she right.
10:11
But when I heard when she was talking to the therapist about
10:14
her childhood and how she grew up, it was so like shocked.
10:19
Like it hit me so huge to hear her talk about stories of her
10:24
childhood and and feeling like that's exactly what my childhood
10:28
was like and realizing she was just parenting the exact way,
10:33
which same way she was parented. And when that connection hit, it
10:38
became so much easier to understand because like you knew
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no other way. Of course you were going to be
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like that as a mother. Like how would you have known
10:47
any differently? And just knowing her story and
10:53
like how the time that she was a single mother and all of that
10:56
built that understanding for me of oh, you one.
11:00
She's she was already a perfectionist as a child.
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Like she was the youngest of three, but kind of the, a lot of
11:07
responsibility fell on her even though she was the youngest.
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And she was just like always a perfectionist and always doing
11:13
everything right. And so even as a parent, she
11:16
like felt she had to do everything right.
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And so that level like that need to control is why she was the
11:23
way she was of, well, my daughter's going to have a
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better life than me. And the only person who control
11:28
that that happened is me. So I'm going to make that
11:30
happen. And so if you threw that lens,
11:32
it was also understanding it's always fear what we tried when
11:36
we try to control, right? And it's fear that all her
11:40
sacrifices wouldn't mean anything or fear that my life
11:43
would be worse than hers. And so when you fear, you try to
11:46
control the outcome. You know, that Just once I
11:51
understood that, it was like, OK, it's OK.
11:56
Yeah. But the fact that you were able
11:58
to understand where she was coming from gave you such an
12:01
enlightenment of of course this. That makes sense, yeah.
12:06
And the apology did come organically anyway.
12:09
She saw the connection and the link and and it all.
12:12
It was so emotional for her too, right?
12:15
There were so many apologies. Are you able to share what that
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was? You had to with like my
12:20
relationships and I just don't want to because it involves
12:23
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so just. Yeah, that's fine.
12:26
Yeah, that's OK. Yeah.
12:27
So when we you were your mom was suggesting, OK, well, you know,
12:32
you talked about therapy. So like, I want to try therapy
12:35
or let's go to therapy together. Did you find the therapist who
12:40
spoke Korean or how did that work?
12:43
Yeah, we use my therapist, one, because she already knew all of
12:46
my background. I'd already been going to the
12:48
situation and so she knew so much.
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And the aspect of her being an Asian immigrant would be
12:56
helpful. My mom was kind of wary of,
13:00
well, I, I'm going to have to speak English like that's going
13:02
to be different. But my therapist also was like,
13:07
I've, I've worked with people who don't speak English as their
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first language. Like they can work.
13:11
Like you can also help translate some things.
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And she's like some of those conversations might occur
13:17
between you 2 and I don't necessarily need to know
13:19
everything that's. OK.
13:22
And so, yeah, it actually worked out really beautifully.
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Then I and then I thought, and the therapist kind of made her
13:31
feel really comfortable to say, like if something feels
13:33
difficult to express in English, like go and just say it in
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Korean. And so there was a mix
13:40
happening. So but your mom is able to say
13:43
little bit of English or some English?
13:45
Yeah, yeah, she could express herself.
13:47
Yeah, she speaks English, I think great.
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But she's definitely much more comfortable in Korean.
13:52
Mostly she can understand. It's just like more advanced
13:55
English language. That I see.
13:57
OK, So you weren't there just, like, translating every single
14:00
word to your therapist? No.
14:02
She was able to communicate with the therapist directly.
14:05
And you're you're there. So was the sessions always the
14:08
three of you together? Yeah.
14:10
Oh, OK. What was very helpful I posted
14:15
about this one time, I think when I was posted about therapy
14:17
was the framework of therapies used was imago therapy, which
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the structure is one person speaks and then the other person
14:29
before they respond, they they repeat back what they heard,
14:33
they heard you say. And then they confirm like, did
14:36
I hear you right? Or is there something like I got
14:39
wrong and the person who spoke first confirms like, yes, that's
14:43
what I was saying or they say, no, what I was actually saying
14:45
is whatever. So you confirm that you've
14:48
received the message accurately and then you respond.
14:52
And that was so eye opening and something that I started
14:54
transferring to like dating, like when I was with partners,
14:58
because you don't realize how much you hear what you want to
15:03
hear or what you are conditioned to hear.
15:07
And it actually broke my heart because I would say things about
15:10
growing up or express like how things certain things felt.
15:15
And then the she would repeat back what she heard and it would
15:19
be like, I was a bad mom or I write, it's like really
15:24
negative. I was like, no, I never said
15:25
that. That's not what I said.
15:27
And then how did you like say it again?
15:29
And then that was a moment I was really actually super emotional
15:33
for me because it took like 3 times like I said, I think I was
15:37
saying like, and I felt hurt by that or like something
15:40
something. And she was like, you're saying
15:42
that I, I was a really a bad mom.
15:44
And that happened 3, three times.
15:46
We had to go back and forth for me to correct.
15:47
No, that's not what I'm saying. And that hurts so much to know
15:50
that like that was so ingrained in her that she had failed or
15:54
been a bad mom, that it was like, wow, like I, I, I am, she
16:02
is not hearing it Like she's just fully like that.
16:04
No matter what I say, all she's hearing is you are bad.
16:07
You are bad. And that really like cracked me
16:12
open of like, oh, my God. Like, and just like feel so much
16:15
empathy for me, for her, of like wanting her to, to shed that
16:21
burden of feeling like she had, she had failed me.
16:25
Yeah. My dad, that breaks my heart
16:28
because I'm a mom and I completely understand.
16:31
We're just like, why she was hear it that way?
16:36
But what do you do? Why do you think that she was
16:38
hearing it that way? I think she has.
16:40
And is she expressing all this to that?
16:42
Like, like, I think everybody is their own biggest critic, right?
16:45
And so I think her mentality has always been, oh, in spite of me,
16:50
you did so well. Like, despite having such a bad
16:55
mom, like, well, I'm so grateful that you turned up OK.
17:02
And I think she just feels like she never did enough, like she
17:06
wasn't. And it goes back to the way that
17:08
she felt about herself as a child and an adolescent and
17:12
everything. I just don't know that there
17:15
would have ever been a world where she would have been like,
17:17
I did good. Yeah.
17:20
Just like not in her vocabulary or like that's just not
17:24
something Koreans also that generation really say to
17:26
themselves. They're never like patting
17:27
themselves on the back. It's always there.
17:29
You should have done more like you should have done it
17:31
different or better. That reminds me of one of your
17:34
postings talking about how the Korean language is like what?
17:40
What did you say? Like a barrier to emotional
17:43
connection. Yeah.
17:45
Because we're not used to saying, oh, good job, I did.
17:49
Well, you know, that was good. Good enough.
17:52
There's no good enough. And I and I internalize that
17:55
mentality and for up until my 20s too.
17:59
And like, even now, that's my instinct and I have to
18:02
consciously like reframe that mindset.
18:06
Yeah, and I'm sure same for your mom too.
18:08
No, there's no good enough. There's it's never enough.
18:11
Yeah, what a burden that week, Yeah.
18:16
It's like man guide, life could be so much easier.
18:19
But it's so hard. It's so hard for us.
18:22
Yeah. So what?
18:24
So you are. You went through how many
18:26
sessions with your therapist? It was only three which I know
18:28
of only. Three Wow and.
18:30
I I asked if she would go to more by herself when she was
18:34
like, she's like, I'm, I'm too old, but I got what I needed to
18:40
out of that, yeah. Wow, I'm really surprised.
18:43
OK, so she was able to open up like instantly.
18:47
That means because usually like first six trying to open and.
18:51
I think it part of that was because she felt so guilty and
18:54
so ashamed of, you know, pushing me to this decision that for her
19:01
it was like, I can show how sorry I am by, like, putting
19:04
myself out there with this. Yeah, showing how sincere I am.
19:09
You know, so many of us have such hard unresolved conflict
19:16
and like, resentment and guilt and shame and love and emotion
19:21
all at the same time. So it's a hard, hard
19:26
relationship dynamics not only for Korean Americans, but
19:30
everybody like mom and daughter. What is it like?
19:33
What's it right? And like.
19:36
I'm sure there are many, many out there who wish that this
19:40
could happen with their relationship.
19:42
My mom needs this or I, you know this is exactly what we need.
19:45
How do I get my parents to go to right exactly?
19:48
I didn't realize how much that would resonate with people.
19:53
Share with us for those of us who are very unfamiliar with
19:57
what goes on in therapy, like what are some of the topics that
20:01
you touched upon with your mom? Yeah, a lot of it was just
20:06
framed as like, let me get to know you for therapist, right.
20:10
I was tell for my mom was like and he tell me about your
20:13
childhood. Like what was it like being you
20:18
and then for me to like feeling, what was it like growing up in
20:21
your house? Like what, how did it feel for
20:23
you? And then like asking questions
20:25
from there. It really is just having
20:29
somebody to guide you in uncovering realizations about
20:35
yourself to help you make connections.
20:39
Or at least I think that's what makes a good therapist is
20:41
someone who's kind of an observer and ask the right
20:46
questions or gets you to think about things so that you can
20:49
kind of make those connections for yourself of like, well, you
20:52
know, like I had this experience.
20:55
I wonder if that's why I'm this way now or how might that have
21:00
impacted me now and then giving you tools to not just be aware
21:05
because I think a lot of people end up stopping there.
21:08
Like I'm aware of the thing. But then now how do you not stay
21:11
fixed in that mindset of like of being like, OK, so I know why
21:15
I'm like this is because my mom never gave me compliments.
21:18
It's like, OK, so you know that. And so now how can you change
21:22
the way you think so that that's no longer a wound for you and
21:26
that you can actually heal your inner child?
21:28
Because I, it's, I, I can think people haven't gone to therapy
21:32
if it sounds so like woo woo and whatever, but it really is.
21:36
Every interpersonal conflict or problem can always be traced
21:42
back to family and especially teaching.
21:45
I saw that play out so clearly, right?
21:49
Like you, I, I know the home lines of everyone, my students
21:52
and I see like there are no bad kids.
21:55
There aren't there is just, I don't want to call it bad
21:57
parenting because that's a judgment.
21:58
I don't want to pass judgment. There's no bad kids.
22:01
There's just harmful ways of that affect children and that
22:08
creates behaviors that I think people are also not aware of.
22:14
And so good therapy, I think, gets you aware of those things
22:18
and then how to set yourself on a different path so that that's
22:22
not something you're carrying anymore.
22:25
Yeah, it's such a hard work and a long term planning.
22:29
I think, you know, people think they go to two sessions and they
22:31
go, oh, that didn't help me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:35
It's it's for sure a long journey and process.
22:41
So when your mom was feeling like, oh, yeah, you're saying
22:44
what I hear you saying is I've been a bad mother.
22:48
I, I made mistakes. And you know, so it's affecting
22:52
you, impacting you in a negative way.
22:57
What were you feeling when you're hearing that your mom was
23:01
saying those things? Yeah, it broke my heart.
23:05
Like I truly, that's when I think I just like started
23:07
sobbing because I under I, I, I felt what she must be, have been
23:12
feeling this like heaviness to be carrying that much shame.
23:16
And it hurt me so much to know that because I didn't need her.
23:19
I didn't need her to feel that way to feel better or to, you
23:24
know, move past it. Like it just hurt me more to
23:27
know that that was how she was feeling.
23:30
And, and again, like that's what made it made possible to that's
23:34
what invested me on. Like that might have been the
23:35
moment because up to that point I had been like arms, my arms
23:38
were crossed and I was like, I can't believe I have to be here
23:41
like and pouting about it. And it was that moment I think
23:45
where I was like, wow, I am so glad that I am sitting in this
23:49
seat and that I can make sure she stops feeling like this
23:53
because this is like no way for someone to feel.
23:58
And I just felt it so deeply, like it was mine, like in her
24:02
saying that I was, it was just like a profound realization.
24:06
That is powerful. What a powerful moment.
24:11
Has your mom shared anything similar to that?
24:14
Like she was, you know, she realized what you were feeling
24:18
or how by how you're sharing. Yeah, it is.
24:23
So there I had my own turn of like talking about what it felt
24:26
like growing up in our house. And yeah, she like, there's a
24:31
lot of crying on her end to like, I didn't know that that
24:35
felt like that for you. And I think even the the
24:41
memories that I held onto some of those important things she
24:44
she didn't even remember. And it was a good reminder of
24:48
like, we we never know what, what someone's going to hold on
24:51
to, right? There are conversations that I
24:53
have with friends that were like, so profound for me and
24:55
like, change the way I think about something.
24:57
And I a couple year later, we'll be like, yeah, I still think
24:59
about that thing you said, like, what, what are you talking
25:04
about? And I'm like, what?
25:06
Like a life changing moment for me.
25:07
We don't even remember it. And same with this where there
25:11
were like certain core memories of like my mom's harshness that
25:14
like still stuck with me and her realizing like how much those
25:20
things had hurt me was, I think just as powerful for her and,
25:27
and for her to to understand in real life.
25:30
Have you, did you ever have a moment when you know you're
25:33
sharing about something like incident that you remember your
25:35
mom's? Like what?
25:36
That never happened? I don't remember.
25:40
Not in the sessions, but after, yes.
25:43
Because I because then once we got comfortable, you know,
25:47
talking about therapy and I went, I was like, oh, I found
25:49
out this new thing in therapy and it's because like you did
25:55
XYZ. And then she's like, yeah, yeah,
25:56
yeah, everything's just my fault.
25:57
Like what? Like in a joking way, but like
25:59
what? I'd call her up and say, what
26:01
did I do now? What did I do wrong now?
26:03
Right. But no, I don't think there was
26:07
any time where she was like, like, no, that didn't happen.
26:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I talked to a lot of
26:14
people and I, let's just say I remember an incident very
26:19
negative and traumatic for me, right.
26:22
And then I share that with my mom with so much courage.
26:28
I'm making this up, so much courage that, you know, it took
26:31
like maybe a few months to think about the scripting.
26:34
OK, I'm going to say this and this is how I'm going to say
26:37
that. And then the respond comes, huh.
26:41
OK. You know, like you, you're just
26:44
sensitive. You're overthinking.
26:47
Yeah. It.
26:48
Yeah. What would be the best way to
26:51
respond to something like that? Like what would we like to hear
26:56
instead of I? Actually have friends right now
26:58
who like come to me for advice around that exact thing.
27:00
Like I brought this thing up with my mom and she totally and
27:04
like non Koreans, right? Like a white friend of like she
27:06
totally disregarded and like invalidated how I felt.
27:10
And it's so hard because then the advice I find myself giving
27:14
is like, there are limits to who our parents can be.
27:20
And that I also learned that through through therapy too with
27:23
her of like, I'm so proud of my mom for doing what she did.
27:28
And again, like she didn't go further.
27:29
And, and even now, like there are conflicts we still have
27:32
where sometimes I just have to be like, she's still the same
27:35
mom. I mean, she's still the same
27:37
person, right? Like certain things I just have
27:40
to accept of like this is who she some there are elements of
27:43
like she's too old. She's not going to change
27:45
certain things. And like, as the advice I gave a
27:48
friend who had that going on was trying to help her understand.
27:53
Like I asked her, well, do you know what your mom's like home
27:57
life was like when she was a kid And they, you know, she'll be.
28:00
Yeah, it was pretty tough. And like, you know, she had like
28:04
parents, a little parent had a drinking palm, etcetera,
28:06
etcetera. And for me, it's like trying to
28:08
build, not trying to excuse that behavior.
28:12
And especially I know my mom is a great example, like a success
28:17
example, but there are lots of people that had actually abusive
28:19
childhoods, right? Like or really harmful things
28:23
happen. And I don't want it to be
28:26
misconstrued that like those things should be excused or like
28:29
as someone who has had harm done to them, you should like be the
28:33
bigger person and like, forgive me.
28:35
Like that's not at all. I think that's, that's a
28:37
different situation and more so kind of focused on the areas
28:41
where like it is just like a negative relationship rather
28:45
than a abusive, abusive 1. And so for her, sorry, I keep
28:50
going, but I think it's hard because you can't control how
28:55
they react. And I think there comes a point
28:57
where you have to set some boundaries for yourself of like
29:00
if, if you've tried a lot of times and that's the reaction
29:02
you keep getting, it may be time to like set a boundary of like
29:07
a, set a boundary and say, OK, I, I don't think that I can talk
29:10
to my mom about this. And that's really sad and that's
29:14
really upsetting and unfortunate.
29:18
But I can either carry resentment for that and wish
29:22
that she were somebody different who who could respond better.
29:25
Or for my own piece, I can try like try to understand why she
29:31
is that way and why this is so hard for her.
29:34
And maybe with that understanding can build some
29:36
empathy around like, OK, I'm not going to get what I need from
29:41
her. Is there a way I can still find
29:43
the piece I need, whether it's a therapy of my own or like
29:47
processing it on my own without having the need for that person
29:51
to directly repair the harm that they did to me?
29:55
I think is kind of the closest a lot of people might get, which
29:59
can feel disheartening and like suck.
30:04
But again, it's at the end of the day of do you want to just
30:07
keep hoping and wishing that your parent will be somebody
30:09
that they're not? And they, and, and also they
30:12
don't have the tools that we have, right?
30:14
Like a lot of my like millennials, we've, we're so
30:17
over therapied. Like we have all this language.
30:20
We're so aware of our feelings and our parents just don't have
30:24
those. They, they didn't have those
30:25
tools. They don't know how to use them.
30:27
And to expect the same level of awareness that we have is just
30:32
really unfair. A lot of our parents, it's a
30:36
skill issue, not a will. Like they want.
30:39
They want to be the best parent and show you love, but they have
30:42
no idea how. That's a great advice,
30:45
understanding and finding your own peace if they're not able to
30:49
provide that for you. But what what about as a as a
30:53
mom? Let's say my daughter comes to
30:55
me and says how it was very hurtful for her to hear me say
31:00
XY and Z, you know, 15 years ago and I don't remember.
31:05
What would be the best respond from a parent?
31:08
I think just one like probably that will feel part here
31:13
obviously, and I think anyone's instinct when they feel like
31:17
they're being attacked or being told that they did something
31:20
wrong to get defensive. But I think in those moments,
31:25
it's what that person wants is to feel seen and, and hurt.
31:30
And so even in that moment, if they're not able to apologize or
31:35
like say, wow, that's been hard for you.
31:36
Like even just give a moment's process and say, oh, wow, OK, I
31:44
didn't know that. And if they don't have a
31:47
response moment, they're like, maybe can I have some time to,
31:51
to think about that? And I think that could feel
31:54
disappointing too for the person sharing.
31:56
It's like having an understanding of, OK, I just
31:59
shared something really difficult.
32:02
Let me give this person time to process it and react in their
32:05
own time too, and not have it. It can't always happen on the
32:09
timeline that I that I want and need.
32:12
Yeah, at the basic level is wanting to feel heard, wanting
32:17
to feel like valued and understood.
32:20
You know, what was the impact of that for you?
32:23
And like 1 And I think curiosity is being curious.
32:26
Curious but also. I think asking for time too.
32:30
I hear you. Can you give me some time to
32:33
think about this? It's courage, too.
32:37
Because it's, you know, for us. Parents, we're conditioned to be
32:41
the right person all the time. Or you.
32:44
We choose to be the right. Person all the time, yeah.
32:47
So it's it's hard being called out for something that I do not
32:50
have the answer in the moment and I think it takes a.
32:52
Level of humility to be like, we don't know how to respond.
32:57
To this right now. But I want you to know that I
33:00
care about what you said, and I want to give.
33:03
I want to respond. With the amount of.
33:06
Thought that it deserves, I think saying it's something as
33:08
simple as that. I remember I share.
33:10
Something something that I've been holding on like for most of
33:15
my life. And then I laughed because it
33:19
was just like unbelievable at the woman.
33:22
And it was something very traumatic for me.
33:25
And she's like, she had this blank look on her face.
33:28
She's like, oh, I didn't know that.
33:30
I'm like, that's all you have to say.
33:33
You don't know? OK, forget about.
33:36
It like just. Let's just drop it, yeah.
33:39
So yeah, yeah. And of course, I had to talk to
33:41
my therapist about it. Yeah.
33:45
Yeah, it takes a huge level of understanding and, and, and be
33:50
to be like, Oh my gosh, that's that's how you're going to
33:53
react, right. But yeah, and it may, we might
33:57
have to take a couple of conversations of like here,
33:58
remember when I heard that thing and it might be helpful.
34:02
I think I'm just leaving in the moment, but it might be helpful
34:04
to also share what you are hoping to get out of the
34:06
conversation. That's a really good point.
34:10
It can feel like. OK, So what to do with that?
34:15
What? Am I supposed again they don't?
34:16
Have to they don't know wherever told that they'd be like oh wow
34:20
like I didn't realize that that for you like that blah blah blah
34:23
blah blah right yeah we're parents it's like well so and so
34:30
maybe saying like I just wanted you to know that yeah, that's
34:34
such. A good point.
34:35
You know it's a saying. What?
34:37
You expect out of it or what? What you hope out of saying this
34:40
to them? That's a great point.
34:43
That's like right on. I mean, even in marriage, even
34:47
with children, you know, like any relationship, like really
34:51
when they, they don't have the, the language or the tools to
34:55
respond or to understand, then, you know, give them the tools
34:59
and the language. This is what you know, I wish
35:02
you would say or this is how I wish you would understand.
35:06
And I even do it with my mom now for like smaller.
35:09
Things like, well, we would actually happened a couple weeks
35:11
ago. Two of my best friends were
35:13
married and we've always lived like a few blocks away from each
35:16
other for the last two years. They moved to Jersey.
35:19
And it was really emotional for me and all of us that, you know,
35:22
they were leaving. And so I was telling my mom
35:23
about it and I was like, I'm so sad.
35:25
I cried so much. And then she was like completely
35:28
ignored that and was like, so did he find a new job?
35:31
Like when did he start work? And I'm like no.
35:34
What mom, I'm saying I. Cried so much.
35:36
I'm really sad. And she said it again, like,
35:38
yeah. So where's he?
35:39
And I was like, mom, I'm saying that I'm really sad right now.
35:43
And I actually just want to hear you say like cursed get that
35:47
like and then ask the logistical question.
35:50
Like they just want to know like the the facts.
35:54
And then she was like, he was like, so did he find a new job?
36:02
And I'm like, right? This is good enough.
36:05
Good enough? Good enough and.
36:08
Because I felt like if I. Just hang up like this right
36:10
now. I'm going to feel really
36:11
resentful that like press this thing and then my mom.
36:14
So I was like, I'm just just say it.
36:16
Like when I say this, I really just want you to say this and
36:20
like again, you could get hung. Up on well, I want.
36:23
Her to say it without me telling her to say it, just know to say
36:26
it. And it's like, again, they don't
36:28
know how to do that. It's not their instinct.
36:31
There's got to be a little. Bit of hand holding.
36:32
Of like, I wanted to hear this. Can you, can you just say that
36:36
for me, please? Yeah.
36:38
That's a really good point. It takes practice because it
36:42
feels awkward, you know, because we're not used to saying that
36:45
those type of things were. Yeah.
36:47
Making that request, it didn't go well.
36:49
I remember it was like she. Was helping me with an audition
36:52
and she was, I had to, it was in Korean and she was critiquing my
36:56
Korean accent. She was like, why are you saying
36:58
those words like that? And I was like, and I was
37:00
nervous and I was in 10 minutes, I'm trying my best and you're
37:03
not healthy. And like, we like, like I
37:07
started crying. She was like about to yell at
37:08
me. And then we hung up and like.
37:13
It I called her back. And she, you know, so like,
37:16
it's, it's definitely, it's still a journey.
37:19
Yeah. Yeah.
37:20
Have you ever? Asked your mom, or has she ever
37:22
shared what the biggest thing that she's learned from going
37:26
through therapy? Yeah, there's so many.
37:29
I think about therapy herself, she, she really learned like,
37:34
because she had the mentality of, oh, if you go to therapy or
37:38
in Korea, that means like something wrong with you or, you
37:40
know, and she realized, and I think she's done this in one of
37:45
the videos that I posted, but she seeing how it, it made her
37:50
think about her life and like the impact that it has now.
37:53
Like she was like, oh wow, like I see how this can be healing
37:58
like and she also talked, you know, she's my mom's very
38:01
Christian and goes to church. And for her, she would it's
38:05
prayer is kind of the replacement for therapy for a
38:07
lot of Koreans. And it's like I and she had that
38:11
mentality too, like, well, if I had a problem, I would pray to
38:14
God and I'd say, God help me change this thing about me.
38:17
And then she'd get so frustrated like, why, why am I?
38:20
I'm, I'm praying about it, but I'm still the same way and I
38:23
still have the same shortcomings.
38:24
And she realized like, oh, there's something beyond prayer
38:29
that has to be done for certain things for me to change about
38:33
myself rather than just praying about it.
38:37
Like there's an action on a certain level of like self
38:40
interrogation and and that has to happen that's really, really
38:45
painful and difficult to do. And so I think are seeing how
38:48
those how they can work kind of side by side together.
38:52
Was the big things she learned. Yeah, that is a big thing.
38:55
For a lot of Korean Koreans, Korean Americans, that faith
39:00
component, yeah. But you know, action is faith,
39:04
too. Yeah.
39:04
Doing something, yeah. Seeking help and God working
39:08
through. Therapy.
39:09
Yeah, right. Absolutely.
39:10
Absolutely. If you didn't go through those
39:13
three sessions of therapy, what do you think your relationship
39:17
would be like right now? Yeah, I think it would.
39:20
Be very surface level. I had this perception that our
39:25
relationship was good and then after.
39:30
Going to therapy made me realize.
39:31
That that was that was all fake. Like I, it was good because I
39:36
presented a certain version of myself to my mom that would get
39:39
her approval and make her happy. And I knew what things to avoid
39:44
to, to that would lead to conflict.
39:47
And so that created a good relationship.
39:50
And so I think it would have been more of that, but even even
39:52
worse because I now feel resentment and towards her for,
39:56
for what she did. And so it would, it would, it
40:01
would just be more of the same of like, well, I did this today,
40:05
but yeah, yes, I ate right. Yeah, it would.
40:09
I think it would just be a very, very surface level relationship
40:13
if there's no joy in the relationship.
40:15
Only application? Oh, my goodness.
40:18
How terrible is that? What would you recommend to
40:22
other families, daughters or moms who are in a situation like
40:27
this? Like, yeah, maybe we need some
40:30
help, you know, whether it's talking to the pastor or
40:33
whatever. Yeah.
40:34
How can we start that? Conversation.
40:36
Yeah, I. Think and my mom actually
40:39
answered this best. They had that question.
40:43
For her in one video. And she she was like, because I
40:46
was like, what would get other parents to go to therapy, do you
40:49
think? And she was like, no, nobody
40:53
wants. To like.
40:54
Have to admit that they they were they were wrong or they did
40:59
something bad or like shame, like coming out of some place of
41:01
shame is not a good motivator and so her take was really
41:11
instead of framing. Us like these are all the things
41:15
you did. Wrong.
41:15
And that's why I said you need to go fix it.
41:16
It's like, why would anybody want to be like, you're right,
41:19
I'm going to come right? That's actually that's not how
41:21
humans work and. Just like framing us like.
41:26
A This means a lot to me. Like I would really appreciate
41:30
it if maybe could we try this thing and make it less about
41:35
them personally and more about like the relationship.
41:38
I think can make it feel less threatening for someone on the
41:42
receiving end or even like framing in as like I'm trying to
41:47
learn things about myself and I it would be really helpful if
41:51
like you could be there to so I could get your perspective and
41:55
understand some things better. Could be.
41:59
A way to reframe? It as well so it doesn't feel
42:01
like we're going to go and you're going to fix all things
42:04
going wrong with you because you you messed me up so bad yeah, we
42:09
don't want to come from. The place of shame.
42:12
We already walk in shame each day.
42:15
You know, like, like your mom said, like I'm such a bad mom.
42:19
Yeah, coming from shame. Yeah, we all have that part.
42:23
I think there's some Brené Brown.
42:25
Talk or something like shame is like an effective motivator.
42:29
It it's a maybe short term motivator, but like appealing to
42:33
someone's higher self or like the good in them is is is what
42:38
really creates lasting change. It sounds like you and your.
42:41
Mom, your family benefited from therapy.
42:45
Who would benefit from therapy? I think everybody.
42:50
And I fell into this category too, of I started therapy
42:53
because I was in crisis, like I was going through a breakup,
42:58
like something was wrong. So I went to therapy, which is
43:01
usually how most people start. You're not like in a place and
43:04
think, you know what, I want to start seeing a therapist.
43:07
But I say everybody would benefit from therapy because we
43:11
all have something to learn about ourselves.
43:14
We all have some kind of wound. Or.
43:19
Childhood scar that's affecting the way we see the world or show
43:23
up in a way that maybe we don't need to hold on to.
43:27
And I think. I mean, everybody will end up in
43:31
a relationship. One day some some kind and we
43:37
we. All reenact.
43:39
Or we recreate kind of the environment that we either grew
43:42
up in or that's familiar to us. And if everyone felt an
43:46
awareness of how their environment impacted them or
43:49
their child impacted them and then found a different way to
43:52
not repeat those same cycles, truly the world would be such a
43:58
better place. And I think about that a lot
44:00
when I forget my students. So if their parents knew how
44:05
them fighting or like the way that they talk to their kid or
44:08
all those things is really impacting them, I feel like
44:12
everybody would want to do better.
44:15
And there's a Korean show, I don't know if you watch the
44:17
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my.
44:20
Parent, we actually love watching that when I go home
44:22
with what? But go see them, we love
44:24
watching it together. But that is such an illuminating
44:29
way to understand like, because every episode, every situation,
44:33
the answer is always the parents are doing something that they
44:38
didn't know was hurting the kid or and they're always tied to
44:42
the way they grew up every single time.
44:45
And that's not a coincidence, right?
44:49
And so you might think I'm fine, like I'm not, I don't do
44:52
anything crazy or bad or whatever, but it always shows up
44:56
in some way. And if you can build an
44:59
awareness. Of that.
45:01
Like your family will be so much healthier and and all the
45:04
problems in the world are because of something going wrong
45:07
with the family. And so that I think is a really
45:13
powerful ripple effect that that could have of everybody all that
45:17
understanding and and chose to try to do something differently
45:21
than than the way that they any. Harmful like patterns that they.
45:25
Were raised with that's right and that one thing I.
45:28
Want to say is just because you're seeking therapy doesn't
45:31
mean you're disrespecting your parents or, you know, dismissing
45:35
the way that they parented you. It's just a way of finding the
45:40
journey, finding yourself. I'd actually seen someone on.
45:45
Korean talk show talking about they were American American,
45:47
Korean born American. No, sorry, American born.
45:51
Korean they were talking about that is it's hard for you to go
45:56
to therapy too, because if you go to therapy, you have to think
46:00
like talk about my parents did this or that.
46:05
And then it it feels like you're betraying them because you are
46:09
speaking badly about them or critiquing them when when you
46:11
know well, they only did all that because they cared about me
46:14
and they they sacrificed so much and same.
46:18
I felt the same way of like it felt like blasphemy to be saying
46:24
oh or admitting. It things out loud that she.
46:27
Had done then saying them out loud made me realize oh, that
46:30
actually was probably not a great thing that she did.
46:33
She probably shouldn't have done that.
46:36
If you admit something is wrong with yourself and then you have
46:38
to reflect on why might I be like that and that the IT turns
46:43
to having to reflect on your childhood inadvertently.
46:46
You have to reflect on your parents.
46:48
And so that thread is really difficult to follow of Oh no,
46:53
and then you know it's you want to stop.
46:55
It's like, never mind, I can't go there.
46:57
And then you don't get to really work that you need.
47:00
That's right. That's right.
47:02
Yeah, we need to separate that. Yeah.
47:05
Yeah, I've had the experience too during therapy.
47:09
Yeah, it's like. You can acknowledge that they
47:11
hurt you and still love them. That's right.
47:15
That's right. You say you had a Asian American
47:18
therapist. You think that that matters when
47:21
we're looking for a therapist? Yeah, for me it does, because.
47:24
And they don't necessarily have to be.
47:26
None of my therapists were Korean, but it mattered that
47:29
they had the ability to. One, that they had the
47:33
experience of navigating 2 worlds or two cultures and not
47:38
having to explain that aspect. Somebody was important to me.
47:45
And also not having to say. Certain everything of like
47:48
explaining what an Asian mom is like, right?
47:51
So I think that's the most important part rather than the
47:56
actual ethnicity or the race. But it's like it could also be
47:59
someone who's black or an immigrant, just some kind of
48:03
identity. For me, it was it was always
48:05
important to have someone who like had the lived experience of
48:11
like having to. Balance 2.
48:13
Different cultural, two different worlds.
48:16
Yeah, I tend to agree with that. So for our audience, I've made
48:24
so many connections with therapists, psychologists,
48:28
psychiatrists through this podcast.
48:30
So if anyone is looking for a referral to especially for a
48:35
Korean American therapist who could help you and your family,
48:39
because these most of them speak both languages, please contact
48:42
us. I will be happy to make the
48:44
referral. They're all qualified.
48:47
Yeah. Wonderful people.
48:49
So yeah, Yeah, please reach out. That's question, Haley, if you
48:54
were to describe yourself as food, movie or song, what would
49:00
it be and why? That's actually one that I
49:02
prepared the. Answer for I was thinking
49:07
actually to Google I was like what is the food that is like
49:09
this because I and I actually came because I wanted I was like
49:14
the search term I put in was a food that looks like one thing
49:17
but tastes like another thing and it.
49:21
Came up with actually the first. Hit was like German spaghetti
49:23
ice cream, so it's looks like it's a German dessert that came
49:27
out a few years ago I guess, and it looks like a bit of
49:29
spaghetti, but it's ice cream I feel like.
49:33
That. Describes me just.
49:34
Because I think I give off 1/1 impression of myself in certain
49:39
settings and then people might assume that's like all of me.
49:44
But I think there's a lot of quite unexpected aspects of
49:48
myself that that element of like surprise, flush, unexpectedness
49:53
is something that I do like about myself that I explore.
49:59
That's good. I like that German spaghetti ice
50:02
cream. We're going to have to find one.
50:05
Yeah, maybe spaghetti, I think. Thanks so much for sharing your
50:11
personal. Story with us.