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CHARLIE KIRK SHOOTING BOMBSHELL: Video of Suspect's Trans Lover Lance Twiggs · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Bombshell tonight we go straight into the Charlie Kirk shooting.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hearing good evening. I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: My name is Lance Twigs. And do you know Tyler Robinson? Yes?
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I do, well, yeah, I do. And this is the
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: same Tyler Robinson that's been charged with the shooting of
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, all right, So you said when you first met
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: you were roommates. Uh, yeah, okay, and then at some
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: point your relationship progressed? Is something more than a roommates
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: that right?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: When was that?
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: I think we started dating two or three months after
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: he moved in Okay? And where did you live at
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: that time, Saint George? In an apartment complex?
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: And is that apartment in the same place you lived
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: when on September tenth?
• 0:59
  Speaker 5: Yes to Dave Matt what's the latest, Nancy. It was
• 1:04
  Speaker 5: a shocking day in court. Two big things happened. One,
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: Lance Twigg said he's the roommate of Tyler Robinson, roommate
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: and lover. He sat down with police in April and
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: gave a very involved interview with them, and part of
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: that was shown in court during the preliminary hearing heavily redacted,
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: though it might have been there was a lot of
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: very specific information about how they met and became roommates.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Let's go straight back into the courtroom.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Do you recognize that on the screen there?
• 1:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah? What do you recognize it as?
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: That was the note under his keyboard that he was
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: referring to in the first text of that chain. So
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: where did you find this on his desk underneath his
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: computer keyboard?
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: And I assume you read it? Yeah? And then what
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: did you do with it after you read it?
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: I believe I just put it back down on the
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: desk after I took a picture of it, Okay.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: And again, the time you read it was probably around
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: eleven o'clock or so on the temp Yes, the night
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: of September tenth. And did you ever see that again
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: after you placed it back on his desk?
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think I did.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Day Matt, what about it, Nancy?
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: In the video with Lance Twiggs and police, a question
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: answer was going back and forth about a note that
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: was found by Lance Twigs. All right, we found out
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: later during text message examination by Utah Bureau of Investigation
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: Agent Brian Davis on the stand we found out what
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: that handwritten message was. Tyler Robinson told Lance Twig by
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: text on the night of September tenth to go and
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: look for a note under his keyboard for his computer.
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: And that's what the picture is that they're talking about
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: between Lance Twigs and police during his interview.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Let's go straight back to the courtroom, so.
• 3:03
  Speaker 7: This would have been from Tyler says, drop what you're
• 3:06
  Speaker 7: doing look under your keyboard. Then Lance responds, he says what,
• 3:10
  Speaker 7: and then he says, you're joking, right, and then Tyler says,
• 3:14
  Speaker 7: I tried to delete that. Then Tyler says, I'm still okame.
• 3:18
  Speaker 7: I love, but I'm stuck an arm for it a
• 3:20
  Speaker 7: little while longer yet shouldn't be long until I can
• 3:23
  Speaker 7: come home, but got to grab my rifle still. To
• 3:26
  Speaker 7: be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till
• 3:29
  Speaker 7: I died of old age. I am sorry to involve you,
• 3:33
  Speaker 7: and then Lance replies you weren't the one who did it, right,
• 3:37
  Speaker 7: and Tyler says, I am, I'm sorry. Lance says I
• 3:41
  Speaker 7: thought they caught the person, and then Tyler says, no,
• 3:46
  Speaker 7: they grabbed some crazy old dude then interrogated someone in
• 3:49
  Speaker 7: similar clothing I had planned to grab my rifle from
• 3:52
  Speaker 7: the drop point shortly after, but most of that got
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough
• 3:59
  Speaker 7: to get out. There's one vehicle.
• 4:01
  Speaker 8: Lingering, Dave Matt What more can you tell us that
• 4:04
  Speaker 8: note handwritten by Tyler Robinson and found by Lance Twigs.
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: A couple of things are important there one the no
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: said I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk,
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: handwritten by Tyler Robinson and found by Lance Twiggs on
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: the direction of Tyler Robinson. There was more testimony than
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: we never saw. A lot of it was redacted. There
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: was a lot of blank space on this interview with police.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: But I do in our mind to Nancy Lance Twiggs,
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: he's been given immunity from prosecution in exchange for his testimony.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: What else does he know? A lot back to the courtroom.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Do you recognize the person in these images?
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't say with one hundred percent certainty just because
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: of camera quality, but that looks like him in terms
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: of the shoes, he's wearing, the sunglasses. I don't think
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: i'd specifically seen him more wearing that hat, but he
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: was usually wearing a hat. And then shean's so it definitely,
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: especially the bottom. The last two definitely do look like him. Oh,
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: they do look like Tyler.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Robinson to date, Matt, What about it, Nancy.
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: One of the things that happened in court was the
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: direct identification of Tyler Robinson by Lance Twigs. Now, Lance
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: Twigs identifies him, not one hundred percent, but he's saying
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: that looks like him. Looks like the clothes he wears.
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: You know, but camera angles not great, camera's not great.
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: But yeah, looks like him. Can't be one hundred percent,
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: but looks like him.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Let's go straight back into the courtroom.
• 5:43
  Speaker 7: Then Tyler says, I'm still came. I love, but I'm
• 5:46
  Speaker 7: stuck an orm for it a little while longer yet
• 5:49
  Speaker 7: shouldn't be long until I can come home, But got
• 5:51
  Speaker 7: to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had
• 5:54
  Speaker 7: hoped to keep this secret until I died of old age.
• 5:57
  Speaker 7: I am sorry to involve you, And then Lance replies,
• 6:02
  Speaker 7: you weren't the one who did it, right, and Tyler says,
• 6:06
  Speaker 7: I am, I'm sorry. Lance says I thought they caught
• 6:10
  Speaker 7: the person, and then Tyler says, no, they grabbed some
• 6:14
  Speaker 7: crazy old dude. Then interrogated someone in similar clothing. I
• 6:18
  Speaker 7: had planned to grab my rifle from the drop point
• 6:20
  Speaker 7: shortly after, but most of that side of town got
• 6:24
  Speaker 7: locked down. It's quiet, almost enough to get out, but
• 6:27
  Speaker 7: there's one vehicle lingering. Lance says why and Tyler says
• 6:33
  Speaker 7: why did I do it? And Lance says yeah. Tyler
• 6:36
  Speaker 7: says I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: be negotiated out. If I'm able to grab my rifle unseen,
• 6:44
  Speaker 7: I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
• 6:47
  Speaker 7: retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't
• 6:50
  Speaker 7: seen anything in the news about them finding it. We'll
• 6:53
  Speaker 7: update you shortly, or Charlie will update you by midnight.
• 6:57
  Speaker 7: And then Lance says, all right, stay safe. How long
• 7:00
  Speaker 7: have you been planning this and Tyler replies a bit
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: over a week? I believe, So, lanceys, do you need
• 7:07
  Speaker 7: it for hunting? And Tyler says no, My dad wanted
• 7:11
  Speaker 7: to use it to use a high caliber for the
• 7:13
  Speaker 7: rifle hunt. Judging from today, I say grabs gun does
• 7:17
  Speaker 7: just find IDK? I think that was a two KSE scope.
• 7:24
  Speaker 7: Lance says, geez, and then Tyler says, wemw home three
• 7:31
  Speaker 7: point five hours Lance's drive safe and then Tyler says, delete.
• 7:36
  Speaker 8: This exchange, Dave, Matt what more can you tell us.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: You know, Nancy.
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: During the course of the testimony today at the preliminary hearing,
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: we got a sense of what was taking place on
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: the campus after the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: surrounding area by the text messages being sent from Tyler
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: Robinson to his lover's Lash roommate, Lance Twiggs. Lance Twigs
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: has been given immunity from prosecution, and we'll find out
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: why later, I guess. But the one thing that you
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: can take away from all of this is exactly what
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: was happening in the search area as law enforcement was
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: looking for the gun, and what Tyler Robinson was doing
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: as he.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Watched it happen.
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: The fact that Tyler Robinson told Lance Twigs by text
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: that he had been planning it for over a week.
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: A couple of things come out of that. One.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: It appears that Lance.
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: Twigs had no clue about what Robinson was planning to
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: do and he was shocked by it. But part two
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: is that when Lance Twiggs hears from Tyler Robinson the
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: night of this assassination, he's admitting to doing it, admitting
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: to etching into the bullets. Okay, memes, what responsibility do
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: we have to turn somebody in? I mean that your
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: first phone call nine to one one. Hey, I think
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: my boyfriend slash roommate might have been the killer. I meant,
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: wouldn't that be the first call you'd make? A quick word, Nancy,
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: you have pointed this out many many times on this
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: show and others. Friends, whatever you put on the internet,
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: whatever you text, you can delete it all you want.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: It's not gone.
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: That's why it's kind of amusing to me that Tyler
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: Robinson would give a direction to Lance Twiggs, you know,
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: to delete these messages like you, because he's bragging all
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: along and how you committed the perfect crime.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: He can't be caught.
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: The only thing is maybe he's got fingerprints left on
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: the gun, right, But delete the messages and that'll clear everything.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't work like that, Nate, eaton joining us. Some
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: East Idaho news has gone to the crime scene and
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: on quite a bit of investigative work. Nate, what did
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you see?
• 10:00
  Speaker 9: Well, the first place I went was to the place
• 10:02
  Speaker 9: where Charlie Kirk was actually shot. There in the Amphitheater
• 10:06
  Speaker 9: outdoor area on the campus. It's a grassy area with
• 10:10
  Speaker 9: different layers. People were sitting and standing in that location.
• 10:14
  Speaker 9: There's also buildings surrounding it, so people were standing watching
• 10:19
  Speaker 9: Charlie speak when that gunshot rang out, and you can
• 10:22
  Speaker 9: see it's at the bottom of a tiered layer and
• 10:26
  Speaker 9: directly in the line of sight of that Amphitheater is
• 10:30
  Speaker 9: the low Sea building where investigators say Tyler Robinson made
• 10:34
  Speaker 9: his way onto the roof and took one shot directly
• 10:38
  Speaker 9: at Charlie Kirk. And there is no obstruction there, Nancy,
• 10:42
  Speaker 9: nothing at all. It is a direct site, nothing in
• 10:46
  Speaker 9: the way, and clearly was disturbing for so many and
• 10:52
  Speaker 9: a life changing day for so many there on the
• 10:55
  Speaker 9: spot on the Amphitheater where this horrible event happened. Now,
• 10:59
  Speaker 9: this is a campus that was built on a hill,
• 11:02
  Speaker 9: so it's layered. Not only is the Amphitheater layered, but
• 11:05
  Speaker 9: the buildings around the Amphitheater are layered. So it's very
• 11:09
  Speaker 9: easy to get onto the roof of these buildings. In fact,
• 11:12
  Speaker 9: many of the buildings the roofs are sidewalks. You're walking
• 11:15
  Speaker 9: on the sidewalk, you go down some stairs and then
• 11:17
  Speaker 9: you enter the building, and that's just how the campus
• 11:20
  Speaker 9: is structured. So it's not like there's all these tall
• 11:23
  Speaker 9: buildings that you're having to climb up or work your
• 11:25
  Speaker 9: way around to get on top. That's not what you're
• 11:28
  Speaker 9: looking at here. Second place I went, so I was
• 11:30
  Speaker 9: there in the Amphitheater, and then I went upstairs to
• 11:33
  Speaker 9: the Hall of Flags, which the officer testified the other
• 11:35
  Speaker 9: day in court. That's where he was stationed when the
• 11:38
  Speaker 9: gun shot happened, and he running down the stairs. That's
• 11:41
  Speaker 9: where he found the first gun holster, which apparently had
• 11:45
  Speaker 9: nothing to do with this case, but he found it.
• 11:48
  Speaker 9: And then he looked up he saw the low C building,
• 11:50
  Speaker 9: and then he worked his way up there and noticed
• 11:53
  Speaker 9: what he called the sniper's den, where there was a
• 11:56
  Speaker 9: disturbance in the gravel on the roof of that building,
• 11:58
  Speaker 9: and he was able to see see how someone from
• 12:01
  Speaker 9: that position could shoot a gun and directly hit Charlie Kirk,
• 12:04
  Speaker 9: who was in the Amphitheater area.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Nate, you state that you went to a wooded area
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: where you believe the gun and the gun towel was recovered.
• 12:13
  Speaker 9: What did you learn, well, Nancy, I then worked my
• 12:15
  Speaker 9: way over to the actual low Seed building. Now, I
• 12:18
  Speaker 9: didn't think i'd be able to get anywhere near the roof.
• 12:21
  Speaker 9: But what startled me most is that, as I mentioned,
• 12:25
  Speaker 9: these buildings are in tiers, so at some portions you're
• 12:28
  Speaker 9: looking up maybe about twelve fifteen feet. But as you
• 12:31
  Speaker 9: walk around the building, there's a stairwell you can take up,
• 12:34
  Speaker 9: which is presumably the same stairwell that Tyler Robinson took.
• 12:38
  Speaker 9: You take it up and you're right there at the
• 12:40
  Speaker 9: roof level. You don't have to really jump over anything
• 12:43
  Speaker 9: other than a railing, which and now they have put
• 12:47
  Speaker 9: up a fence. They've put up a chain link fence,
• 12:49
  Speaker 9: so it would be more challenging to get on that roof.
• 12:52
  Speaker 9: But at the time you could simply jump over a railing.
• 12:55
  Speaker 9: You're on the roof, You do a few jumps from
• 12:57
  Speaker 9: level to level, and you're there on the edge of
• 13:00
  Speaker 9: the building. And then from there we've seen the surveillance
• 13:04
  Speaker 9: footage where after the shot was fired, apparently Robinson took
• 13:07
  Speaker 9: off across the building and then he jumped off about
• 13:10
  Speaker 9: a twelve to fifteen foot drops, still not very far,
• 13:13
  Speaker 9: and that's when he worked his way into the wooded area.
• 13:17
  Speaker 9: We have heard about the wooded area. I was picturing
• 13:20
  Speaker 9: kind of a lush forest. That's how a lot of
• 13:22
  Speaker 9: people have described it. That's not what it is. There's
• 13:25
  Speaker 9: a lot of trees, and it's a grated area. It
• 13:29
  Speaker 9: kind of goes up, so you could walk up a hill.
• 13:31
  Speaker 9: You wouldn't need hiking shoes for this, though. I mean,
• 13:33
  Speaker 9: it's dirt, it's grass, it's pine trees, it's other trees,
• 13:37
  Speaker 9: and being that it was September, there likely would have
• 13:39
  Speaker 9: been foliage on these trees versus the wintertime or spring
• 13:42
  Speaker 9: where they wouldn't have bloomed. But there's a kind of
• 13:45
  Speaker 9: a row of trees separating the campus from other buildings
• 13:48
  Speaker 9: from other homes in the neighborhood that you could easily
• 13:52
  Speaker 9: hide something or try to hide something, which is apparently
• 13:54
  Speaker 9: what Robinson did according to the police, And that is
• 13:57
  Speaker 9: where they ended up finding the towel and then they
• 14:00
  Speaker 9: found the gun, both of which they said had the
• 14:02
  Speaker 9: DNA on it.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Nate, how will what you learned be probative at trial?
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, how can it be used by either the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: state or the defense.
• 14:13
  Speaker 9: Well, we can already see that the state has used
• 14:16
  Speaker 9: the surveillance footage showing him on the buildings, going building
• 14:19
  Speaker 9: to building, and the fact that they said they found
• 14:21
  Speaker 9: those items in the woods. I think had his DNA
• 14:27
  Speaker 9: not been on those items would be much harder and
• 14:29
  Speaker 9: the defense would would maybe try to poke holes in that.
• 14:31
  Speaker 9: But the fact that his DNA was on it, and
• 14:34
  Speaker 9: that this surveillance video appeared to show him with a
• 14:39
  Speaker 9: long item down his pants as he was limping to
• 14:41
  Speaker 9: try to go over to the campus, I think all
• 14:43
  Speaker 9: of that will line up. The key here, of course,
• 14:45
  Speaker 9: is all of the footage that they have. The footage
• 14:47
  Speaker 9: that they have, the fact that it's easy to climb
• 14:49
  Speaker 9: on top of the building, the fact that the amphitheater
• 14:52
  Speaker 9: was open, wide open, the fact that there's multiple other
• 14:56
  Speaker 9: buildings where people could easily get on top of. I
• 14:59
  Speaker 9: think all of that will come into play to show
• 15:01
  Speaker 9: that this was an area that was not super hard
• 15:06
  Speaker 9: to get to.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Nate eaton east Side Home News, what's the takeaway from
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: what you learned at the crime scene.
• 15:14
  Speaker 9: I think one of my takeaways, Nancy, is just how
• 15:18
  Speaker 9: well one the area is far more compact than what
• 15:22
  Speaker 9: I had seen on other videos on news clips. It
• 15:25
  Speaker 9: seemed very wide and large and huge. This was a
• 15:30
  Speaker 9: small area. I was able to walk that whole area
• 15:33
  Speaker 9: in less than five minutes. I mean it, it is there.
• 15:38
  Speaker 9: There's where Charlie was speaking. There's building building the chick
• 15:41
  Speaker 9: fil A that they say Tyler Robinson went into after
• 15:43
  Speaker 9: he visited the campus in the morning is right there,
• 15:46
  Speaker 9: off to the side. And then there's the low See Building,
• 15:49
  Speaker 9: which is straight ahead. You could yell from where Charlie
• 15:53
  Speaker 9: Kirk was standing. You could yell and if someone was
• 15:56
  Speaker 9: on the roof of the low See Building, if you
• 15:57
  Speaker 9: yelled really loud, they could probably hear. You mean, is
• 16:00
  Speaker 9: that close. It's not like we're talking yards and yards
• 16:03
  Speaker 9: and yards away. It is close. It is within distance
• 16:06
  Speaker 9: of seeing someone if you're looking, if you're noticing and
• 16:11
  Speaker 9: definitely possibly hearing someone. I say that there is a
• 16:14
  Speaker 9: water feature there, so that might muffle the sound, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 9: if water was running that day, it could have caused
• 16:18
  Speaker 9: some disturbances. Plus, if you're surrounded by people, you're not
• 16:20
  Speaker 9: gonna hear it. But ultimately, I think the big takeaway
• 16:23
  Speaker 9: for me is the area was so compact. One thing
• 16:26
  Speaker 9: I do want to say about being in the courtroom, Nancy,
• 16:29
  Speaker 9: is that Erica Kirk and Charlie Kirk's parents seemed to
• 16:35
  Speaker 9: be consoling each other in a way. I noticed Erica
• 16:39
  Speaker 9: Kirk putting her head on Charlie's mother's shoulder. It appeared
• 16:44
  Speaker 9: at times that they were possibly praying, as their eyes
• 16:47
  Speaker 9: were closed and they were looking down. I noticed during
• 16:50
  Speaker 9: the break as they left that there was tissue that
• 16:52
  Speaker 9: they had left on their a package of tissues that
• 16:54
  Speaker 9: they had left on their bench, water bottles in there to,
• 16:57
  Speaker 9: you know, in case they get thirsty. And then the
• 17:00
  Speaker 9: end of the day they stood up and embraced for
• 17:03
  Speaker 9: some time. I'm not talking five seconds. I'm talking thirty
• 17:06
  Speaker 9: seconds to a minute. Erica Kirk and Charlie's mother and
• 17:10
  Speaker 9: Erica's friends who are with her noticeably crying, Erica noticeably upset.
• 17:15
  Speaker 9: This is when they were talking about the defense was
• 17:17
  Speaker 9: arguing about certain evidence being admitted and the prosecution saying
• 17:22
  Speaker 9: we need to admit it, and they clearly are paying
• 17:26
  Speaker 9: attention to this. Erica seems very invested in this, even
• 17:31
  Speaker 9: you know, looking directly at the witnesses. It's not like
• 17:35
  Speaker 9: she's distracted at all. And that has been kind of
• 17:38
  Speaker 9: the key takeaway for me in the courtroom. As two
• 17:42
  Speaker 9: rows behind her. We have Tyler Robinson's parents sitting on
• 17:46
  Speaker 9: the opposite end of the bench, and they obviously are
• 17:50
  Speaker 9: in a completely different frame of mind because their son
• 17:53
  Speaker 9: is on trial for this horrible, horrific crime. And he
• 17:58
  Speaker 9: sits there smiling a little bit. I noticed, you know,
• 18:01
  Speaker 9: before the proceedings he's talking with the attorneys. During the breaks,
• 18:05
  Speaker 9: he's talking with the investigator kind of not not really joking,
• 18:08
  Speaker 9: but smiling, laughing a little bit. At one point he
• 18:10
  Speaker 9: did look over to me, because I was maybe three
• 18:13
  Speaker 9: four feet away from him in the media box. We're
• 18:15
  Speaker 9: right there. He did look over to me and give
• 18:17
  Speaker 9: me kind of a friendly smile. But he has handcuffs
• 18:22
  Speaker 9: on that are chained to his waistband, and then he
• 18:25
  Speaker 9: has shackles on his feet, so he's not getting anywhere.
• 18:28
  Speaker 9: And he's been dressed up every day in a suit
• 18:30
  Speaker 9: and a tie and a dress shirt and dress shoes.
• 18:33
  Speaker 9: And then at the end of the court hearing, they
• 18:34
  Speaker 9: asked him to stand up and walk out, and at
• 18:37
  Speaker 9: that moment I did not see if he made any
• 18:39
  Speaker 9: contact with his family who was on the back row.
• 18:41
  Speaker 9: But it's it's been interesting to see him there. He
• 18:45
  Speaker 9: had a notebook in front of him. I didn't see
• 18:47
  Speaker 9: him take one note. He did have a red pen
• 18:50
  Speaker 9: that was handy with him. But he also I mentioned
• 18:54
  Speaker 9: Erica Kirk is paying close attention to the proceedings. Tyler
• 18:57
  Speaker 9: Robinson is paying close attention to the proceedings.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: To Dave Matt, what's the latest, Nancy?
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: Lance Twigg has been identified by many as Tyler Robinson's
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: roommate and something more well, we already knew. He was
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: given immunity from prosecution to provide testimony. Now the judge
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: allowed in police surveillance video of his interview with cops
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: when he was shown pictures of the alleged assassin of
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: Charlie Kirk, and Lance Twigg says, yep looks like Tyler
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: Robinson to me. Identification in court today that Tyler Robinson
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: appears to be the alleged assassin of Charlie Kirk. Also Nancy,
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica, and his parents. They filed court
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: papers this morning saying that the judge is preventing them
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: from seeing all the evidence. Utah law provides for family
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: members to not only be in court during test during
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: trial testimony, a court hearing like this but it also
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: allows for them to witness evidence in a meaningful way.
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: And Erica Kirk and Charlie's parents say they're being prevented
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: from that, saying there's hidden evidence and they want to
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: see it. So that paperwork has been filed. We'll find
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: out what happens in the coming days tonight.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Wild conspiracy theories are abounding. What do we know? Well,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: take a listen to this.
• 20:27
  Speaker 10: The theory that Charlie Kirk was killed by an explosive
• 20:31
  Speaker 10: placed in his wireless mic is growing in popularity. And
• 20:35
  Speaker 10: when you look at the re enactments done online side
• 20:38
  Speaker 10: by side, you can't help but notice the way that
• 20:42
  Speaker 10: the shirt moves, the way that the necklace moves, and
• 20:45
  Speaker 10: the way that the body moves are so similar.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: What is she saying? That's from WFF news at TikTok White.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I need to hear that again.
• 20:56
  Speaker 10: The theory that Charlie Kirk was killed by an explosive
• 20:59
  Speaker 10: place east in his wireless mic is growing in popularity,
• 21:03
  Speaker 10: and when you look at the reenactments done online side
• 21:07
  Speaker 10: by side, you can't help but notice the way that
• 21:11
  Speaker 10: the shirt moves, the way that the necklace moves, and
• 21:14
  Speaker 10: the way that the body moves are so similar.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott an online reenactment, is that real?
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, you know this is the thing about it.
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: I think a lot of people are getting this from
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: If you remember a couple of years ago from the
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: Israelis using explosive inside of pagers and they went after individuals,
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: and they're extrapolating from that trying to make this like that.
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: If you watch any of those videos with exploding pagers,
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: there's a tremendous amount of damage that is done where
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: you actually have kind of a blast radius and you
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: see things that are like I remember one where the
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: guys like in the vegetable aisle at the store and
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: there are vegetables that are destroyed. That's sort of thing.
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: These these pages blow apart. That's not what we're seeing
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: in this clip with Charlie. And just let me explain
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: something very very quickly. When his shirt balloons out, that's
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: what's referred to as a transfer of kinetic energy. It's
• 22:20
  Speaker 6: almost akin to taking a rock and imagine the most
• 22:23
  Speaker 6: beautiful placid pool you've ever seen in your life and
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: just chunking the rock right in the middle of it.
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: What happens, Well, that energy from that rock striking that
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: placid surface sends out waves. It's the same thing. That's
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: why the shirt balloons out. That's why you might see
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: a necklace move. You're talking about a high velocity rifle round, which,
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: by the way, strikes him in the neck to the
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: left of the mid line, creates a tiny defect. You
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: can see blood at one point in time begin to
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: pour out. This is not an explosive event. Explosions have
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: a very distinctive nature to them. We're talking about where
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: things are actually blown apart. You're gonna have shrapnel, You're
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: gonna have secondary, second, secondary damage relative to other items
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: that are surrounding that area. That dog don't hunt.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry to doctor Sherry Schwartz. Why are people obsessed
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: with these conspiracy theories?
• 23:21
  Speaker 11: So people become obsessed with conspiracy theories for a number
• 23:25
  Speaker 11: of reasons. One of the in this situation, because it's
• 23:30
  Speaker 11: Charlie Kirk and he was such a polarizing figure. People
• 23:34
  Speaker 11: who feel socially or politically disempowered tend to latch onto
• 23:39
  Speaker 11: conspiracy theories because they distrust institutions and experts. So that's
• 23:44
  Speaker 11: kind of one of the most direct in this case
• 23:47
  Speaker 11: that I believe makes people so obsessed with conspiracy theories,
• 23:50
  Speaker 11: But generally speaking, we become obsessed with them because when
• 23:54
  Speaker 11: something happens that's so horrifying. And this is horrifying no
• 23:57
  Speaker 11: matter how you feel about somebody like Charlie k a
• 24:01
  Speaker 11: young man, a father, a husband, was killed in broad daylight,
• 24:04
  Speaker 11: out in the open where there were thousands of people
• 24:06
  Speaker 11: there watching, And this makes us have a sense of terror,
• 24:11
  Speaker 11: a sense of fear, because if it can happen to
• 24:13
  Speaker 11: Charlie Kirk, it can happen to anyone. So believing the
• 24:16
  Speaker 11: conspiracy theories that there was some special conspiracy against Charlie Kirk,
• 24:20
  Speaker 11: it gives us the security to know that we wouldn't
• 24:24
  Speaker 11: be targets. In the same way, we feel a little
• 24:27
  Speaker 11: bit safer. It gives us some control and a little
• 24:29
  Speaker 11: bit of control over the narrative as well.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: To Philip Debay, dare I ask it way in, I.
• 24:36
  Speaker 12: Would love this TikToker on my jury, frankly, because in
• 24:40
  Speaker 12: a case like this, where the evidence is seemingly rock solid,
• 24:45
  Speaker 12: you need to fracture that jury with such great differences
• 24:48
  Speaker 12: of opinion that they'll never garner unanimity. Now, as a
• 24:52
  Speaker 12: practical matter, the prosecution is going to hammer this idea
• 24:56
  Speaker 12: that the medical examiner recovered a bullet fragment from Charlie
• 25:02
  Speaker 12: Kirk's body. So unless you have evidence that that bullet
• 25:07
  Speaker 12: fragment was in fact a microphone fragment, I think she
• 25:11
  Speaker 12: needs to shut the hell up.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: One conspiracy beyond the pale claiming that Charlie Kirk is
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: actually alive.
• 25:18
  Speaker 13: What if Charlie Kirk is still alive, if he was
• 25:21
  Speaker 13: in grave danger and someone was threatening his life and
• 25:25
  Speaker 13: it was it was bad, and the idea came up
• 25:32
  Speaker 13: to fake the assassination and put him in witness protection,
• 25:38
  Speaker 13: you really wouldn't have to convince his friends and family.
• 25:41
  Speaker 13: Most of them would say, absolutely, let's do this to
• 25:46
  Speaker 13: protect him. Now, nobody's crying. Erica throws a few tears
• 25:52
  Speaker 13: here and there, but it would make sense with how
• 25:57
  Speaker 13: they're acting.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: That from Safe Haye Baby Boxes on TikTok Okay Joe
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. To further that conspiracy, you would have to
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: have the entire medical Examiner's office in on it. You
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: would have to have the funeral home. Let's see the
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: footage of Erica Kirk kissing her dead husband's hand you'd
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: have to have the funeral home in on it, everybody
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: that works at the funeral home. Is that even feasible?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan that the medical examiner would take part
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: in a wild conspiracy, faking his autopsy, submitting official autopsy reports,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: even taking the thing to a hearing. What about it,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, give me a.
• 26:47
  Speaker 6: Break, Nancy, what are you talking about. You're talking about
• 26:50
  Speaker 6: the faking of his death. This is so incredibly absurd
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: because you mentioned the medical examiner staff, Yet they would
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: have to be on board. And it's not just the
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: medical examiner's staff. Utah has a state medical examiner. So
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: you're telling me these people are saying, Okay, the chief
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: medical Examiner for the state of Utah, who is, by
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: the way, a board certified forensic pathologist, and all of
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: his staff are going to be coming in and involving
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: themselves in a conspiracy at the risk of their careers
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: and their good name. Oh, by the way, I forgot
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: to mention the ambulance crew, all of the police officers
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: that were involved in this. Oh what else happened? Charlie
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: went to the hospital, didn't he? So you're going to
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: have a board certified surgeon that's gonna stick his neck out.
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: How much money are they paying him in order to
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: do this? Are what you're saying is are they threatening
• 27:48
  Speaker 6: his life? If you don't do this, we're going to
• 27:51
  Speaker 6: take you out. You have to sign on the dotted
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: line that you treated this man. It just does not
• 27:57
  Speaker 6: make sense whatsoever not to mention emergency room texts. We've
• 28:02
  Speaker 6: got emergency room nurses, We've got surgical texts, surgical nurses,
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: all of these people are in on this. This is
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: just the height of lunacy.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: A Philip Dubay, The magnitude required of a conspiracy theory
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: like that to cover up the fact that Kirk's actually
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: alive is insane. But if you put that to a
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: jury and you got one wing nut yourr to buy
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: into it, what do you think.
• 28:33
  Speaker 12: Well, remember, I only need one from a defense standpoint
• 28:37
  Speaker 12: to either hang it or to just cause a retrial
• 28:40
  Speaker 12: and a mistrial. So if I can get that type
• 28:43
  Speaker 12: of conspiracy theories nut on the jury, that is a
• 28:47
  Speaker 12: victory for the client. Now, the practical reality of it
• 28:50
  Speaker 12: is it's going to be hard to juxtapose that against
• 28:54
  Speaker 12: the well attended funeral that they had for Charlie Kirk
• 28:59
  Speaker 12: and how they would explame his corpse in a casket
• 29:04
  Speaker 12: would defy common sense and defy logic. So I think
• 29:09
  Speaker 12: that even though it may initially fracture a jury, I
• 29:13
  Speaker 12: could see the rest of the jury talking her out
• 29:15
  Speaker 12: of that theory, and in the end it could backfire
• 29:18
  Speaker 12: on the defense because it would alienate the jury. And
• 29:21
  Speaker 12: from a defense standpoint, you want to maintain some degree
• 29:24
  Speaker 12: of integrity and credibility because remember it's a death case.
• 29:29
  Speaker 12: If you lose in the guilt phase, they can hold
• 29:31
  Speaker 12: these shenanigans against the defense during the penalty phase and
• 29:35
  Speaker 12: render a death verdict. So it's dangerous.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz joining us, a forensic psychologist specializing in
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: capital mitigation and author. Doctor Sherry, do these people have
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: any idea the suffering they are causing Kirk's family by
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: these far fetched theories like he's still alive?
• 29:53
  Speaker 11: The truth is that when people are engaging in this
• 29:57
  Speaker 11: type of talk, it's very easy because Charlie Kirk is
• 30:01
  Speaker 11: and in front of them, Erica Kirk and mister Kirk's
• 30:03
  Speaker 11: parents not in front of them, and so what happens
• 30:07
  Speaker 11: is it's easy to dehumanize them and forget that they're
• 30:10
  Speaker 11: a factor in this. And when we start dehumanizing people,
• 30:14
  Speaker 11: we don't realize the impact that it has. The fact
• 30:18
  Speaker 11: of the matter is Erica Kirk is a young widow
• 30:21
  Speaker 11: whose husband was killed very publicly. Same for his parents.
• 30:25
  Speaker 11: They are now without their son and they can never
• 30:28
  Speaker 11: get him back, and he was taken in this brutally
• 30:31
  Speaker 11: horrible way. And really I wish the TikTokers and everybody
• 30:35
  Speaker 11: else would stop to think about if they were in
• 30:37
  Speaker 11: that situation, if it was their family member, how they
• 30:40
  Speaker 11: might feel about everybody saying, oh, he's alive and well somewhere,
• 30:45
  Speaker 11: but you all just don't know it. It's really hurtful
• 30:47
  Speaker 11: and it's very damaging to the victims.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Another favorite conspiracy theory out there is that the Kirk
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: murder was ordered by the US government to distract from
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: the Epstein files.
• 31:05
  Speaker 14: We as American people, deserve to have every EPSTEIN file
• 31:08
  Speaker 14: released with no redactions whatsoever, period. And so yesterday, I
• 31:12
  Speaker 14: don't want to comment because a lot of these people
• 31:13
  Speaker 14: are my friends, but they got to make it right,
• 31:16
  Speaker 14: and we the American people, ran on transparency. We deserve
• 31:19
  Speaker 14: to see the entire client list, every document, the government
• 31:22
  Speaker 14: has regarding the Epstein files, we the American people should
• 31:25
  Speaker 14: have on an easy to access website immediately, in a
• 31:29
  Speaker 14: very very quick fashion. I'm pushing for that, both privately
• 31:32
  Speaker 14: and publicly, just so you know.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Is it safe to come out, because I've been arguing
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: that the Epstein file should be made public, the entire
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: files from day one. Insane ridiculous to somehow rope in
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the Epstein files into this brutal murder. Scott Morgan jump in.
• 31:58
  Speaker 6: How many other people have actually made this statement as well?
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: Just in my friend group alone, everyone has wanted to
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: do it. I've commented on the Epstein files, bring them on,
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: I want them to release the list. Does that mean
• 32:11
  Speaker 6: that I'm a target? How about everybody else, every other
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: high profile person. Why is it that they would single
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: out Charlie Kirk for this and don't come at me
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: with this nonsense of well you don't understand what an
• 32:24
  Speaker 6: impact he had. There's a lot of people that have
• 32:26
  Speaker 6: impact out there that are saying the same thing. So
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: is this a motivation for him being taken out? No,
• 32:33
  Speaker 6: I don't think that it is at all. I think
• 32:36
  Speaker 6: that there are a lot of people clamoring for this information.
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of information that should be made public.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: It doesn't necessarily mean that he's a target of an
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: assassination simply based upon that.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: What do you make of that one, Doctor Sherry, I.
• 32:52
  Speaker 11: Think it's so important to consider sources when we are
• 32:56
  Speaker 11: hearing these things such as the Epstein and files are
• 33:01
  Speaker 11: part of the reason that Charlie Kirk was brutally murdered
• 33:06
  Speaker 11: in broad daylight. Demand evidence and think critically. This is
• 33:10
  Speaker 11: what I tell my college students. There is absolutely no
• 33:13
  Speaker 11: evidence that I've seen that there's any relation between Charlie
• 33:18
  Speaker 11: Kirk and the release of the Epstein files. And why
• 33:22
  Speaker 11: would somebody need to murder Charlie Kirk over these files
• 33:27
  Speaker 11: that have These two events are completely unrelated. And again
• 33:31
  Speaker 11: this goes back to how hurtful it is to the family.
• 33:35
  Speaker 11: They're also victims of this crime. They are co victims,
• 33:38
  Speaker 11: is what we call them, and they have to listen
• 33:41
  Speaker 11: to this and manage this every single day. But when
• 33:44
  Speaker 11: you're engaging in that kind of talk, you're just latching
• 33:49
  Speaker 11: onto things that make no sense.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: What about it, Philip Dubay that the murder was ordered
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: by the US government. Is there a way to actually
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: get government conspiracy theorists on your jury. Is that what
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: the defense is going to.
• 34:05
  Speaker 12: Do, of course, And the first thing that I would
• 34:07
  Speaker 12: do is I would want to know the occupation of
• 34:10
  Speaker 12: the Veneerman. I would want those DMV workers. I would
• 34:14
  Speaker 12: want people who work at the counter for Social Security
• 34:17
  Speaker 12: and Medicare and the Registrar of voters, and maybe even
• 34:21
  Speaker 12: who handle the administrative claims for the large HMO organizations,
• 34:26
  Speaker 12: because there's such tremendous distrust in management. They have seen
• 34:31
  Speaker 12: firsthand how people get railroaded, blamed, and thrown under the bus.
• 34:35
  Speaker 12: So I could actually envision one or two jurors in
• 34:38
  Speaker 12: those professional capacities wondering the same thing and perhaps having
• 34:43
  Speaker 12: reasonable doubt.
• 34:48
  Speaker 15: I think she works for the present class, and that
• 34:51
  Speaker 15: she was hired to be Charlie Kirk's handler because Charlie
• 34:54
  Speaker 15: Kirk was such an influential part of the Christian movement
• 34:58
  Speaker 15: through Turning Point USA. I think that the oppressors that
• 35:02
  Speaker 15: Erica was working for really wanted to use Turning Point
• 35:04
  Speaker 15: USA to try to sway the younger generation and manipulate
• 35:08
  Speaker 15: them and control a narrative around Christianity, because that's what
• 35:13
  Speaker 15: they do.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not quite sure what that is. Even claiming
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: something about Erica Kirk being an elite fixer, What is
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: she saying, Doctor Sherry, What do you make of the
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: continued attacks on Erica Kirk.
• 35:30
  Speaker 11: Yes, I've even heard some of the conspiracy theories about
• 35:35
  Speaker 11: that maybe she had some role in his death so
• 35:38
  Speaker 11: that she could take over. What's shocking and really deeply
• 35:42
  Speaker 11: troubling to me as a psychologist is how much vitriol
• 35:47
  Speaker 11: this poor woman Erica Kirk has been subject to since
• 35:52
  Speaker 11: her husband was brutally murdered. She's a young widow, she's
• 35:56
  Speaker 11: a mom, she is an American who's trying to live
• 36:00
  Speaker 11: her life every day and manage this horrible tragedy and
• 36:02
  Speaker 11: having to live it out in the public square. And
• 36:06
  Speaker 11: the hatred from high level people, from some people that
• 36:10
  Speaker 11: I would classify as respected podcasters that have some air
• 36:15
  Speaker 11: of authority about knowledge about things, that really don't have
• 36:18
  Speaker 11: any kind words for her, And I really don't understand that.
• 36:22
  Speaker 11: And I think that they especially have a responsibility to
• 36:24
  Speaker 11: set the tone in the pace and accept that this
• 36:27
  Speaker 11: is somebody who's grieving and she's entitled to that grief
• 36:30
  Speaker 11: and you don't have to like her, but you don't
• 36:32
  Speaker 11: have to attack her.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: The attacks on Erica Kirk keep coming.
• 36:37
  Speaker 16: Listen, Erica Kirk keeps getting weirder and weirder. That's an
• 36:40
  Speaker 16: M and a G. That's not her initials, and that's
• 36:42
  Speaker 16: not Charlie Kirk's initials. Look at how she doesn't have
• 36:44
  Speaker 16: any smearing of her mass Garrett pressure TOPUSA just got
• 36:48
  Speaker 16: millions and millions of dollars, but she needed to put
• 36:50
  Speaker 16: out this fundraiser right after his memorial. Doesn't that seem
• 36:54
  Speaker 16: a little bit suspicious? I believe they're all just running
• 36:56
  Speaker 16: cover for what they're doing. Right here, it's very easy
• 36:58
  Speaker 16: to put on some prost and then right when you're
• 37:01
  Speaker 16: supposed to queue up, Look there's no blood on the ground.
• 37:04
  Speaker 16: It would just be spewing everywhere. It seems like a
• 37:06
  Speaker 16: much simpler explanation that they could have just put a
• 37:09
  Speaker 16: little patrate here and made it go, which is exactly
• 37:12
  Speaker 16: what it looked like.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's modern shaman media. It's amazing to me to
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan that so many people are focusing on
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: attacking Erica Kirk instead of focusing on the fact that
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk was gunned down in broad daylight, sitting on
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: a stage. It's like everyone's doing backflips to proof somehow
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: that Tyler Robinson didn't do it.
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: I don't. It's hard for me to fathom how anyone
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: could fake this event. I've heard all kinds of things,
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: including that this was some kind of digital image that
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: everybody was subjected to and the whole event was a
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: complete digital HALLUSA Nation. I guess that we've all bought
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: into that it didn't actually happen, that there were some
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: kind of special cameras or mirrors that were around, you know,
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: almost like it's some kind of sideshow of Las Vegas
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: magic trick that this did not happen. This is not
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: David Copperfield making the statue of Liberty disappear. This is
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: a man that was a victim of a firearms related homicide.
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: It is that simple. This is a murder investigation and
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: it has been worked as such, and right now we're
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: finding out more and more about it that will go
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: to disprove a lot of this nonsense it's being spewed
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: out there.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: What about it, Debai?
• 38:39
  Speaker 12: I think this conspiracy theorist's idea would make perfect sense
• 38:43
  Speaker 12: if this were a civil, wrongful death trial, because in
• 38:47
  Speaker 12: that context, it would be based on a theory of
• 38:50
  Speaker 12: negligence where the venue is on notice that dangerous third
• 38:56
  Speaker 12: parties could be coming inside the venue and they don't
• 39:00
  Speaker 12: take enough precautions to prevent this type of foreseeable harm.
• 39:04
  Speaker 12: But that's not the posture we're in. We're not in
• 39:07
  Speaker 12: a situation where the university or the venue is getting
• 39:10
  Speaker 12: sued for not having proper security and therefore they should
• 39:14
  Speaker 12: be held liable. This is a criminal trial where criminal
• 39:18
  Speaker 12: liability personally attaches to Tyler Robinson if he was in
• 39:22
  Speaker 12: fact the gunman. So I think that his point may
• 39:26
  Speaker 12: be well taken in a civil form, but not in
• 39:29
  Speaker 12: a criminal one.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz Way.
• 39:32
  Speaker 11: In, Well, this goes to buying into conspiracy theories because
• 39:38
  Speaker 11: you feel politically and socially disempowered, disenfranchised, so you don't
• 39:43
  Speaker 11: trust institutions. These are the people who are going to
• 39:48
  Speaker 11: latch on to this idea that Tyler Robinson didn't do it.
• 39:52
  Speaker 11: And I'll tell him myself a little bit, not that
• 39:55
  Speaker 11: I ever thought he didn't do it, but I didn't
• 39:58
  Speaker 11: really pay super close attention to this, and I also
• 40:01
  Speaker 11: just based on headlines. This is why it's so important
• 40:04
  Speaker 11: to go deeper than that and do your own research.
• 40:06
  Speaker 11: I actually had a sense that, oh, the prosecutors being
• 40:10
  Speaker 11: censured for something. I saw some headline about that. Well,
• 40:13
  Speaker 11: maybe they did get the wrong guy. And then in
• 40:16
  Speaker 11: preparing for this, I read a little bit deeper. I mean,
• 40:21
  Speaker 11: his DNA is on a towel, his roommate boyfriends DNA
• 40:25
  Speaker 11: is on a towel, There's other things. He left a note.
• 40:28
  Speaker 11: So when you do a little bit deeper level of research,
• 40:31
  Speaker 11: you recognize that they probably do have the right guy.
• 40:36
  Speaker 11: His own father turned him in or facilitated him turning
• 40:40
  Speaker 11: himself in. These are all very big pieces of credible
• 40:44
  Speaker 11: evidence that they have the right guy.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Yet another conspiracy theory.
• 40:50
  Speaker 16: I think it's a sign of just like him getting
• 40:53
  Speaker 16: shot and Charlie Kirk thing.
• 40:55
  Speaker 17: I can't even go to a baseball game and bring
• 40:58
  Speaker 17: in a canadike oak the baseball game or a concert
• 41:04
  Speaker 17: without a metal detector or them NV in my pockets.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: It doesn't even apply here. No one was going in
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: a stadium. It was an open area venue. There is
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: not a metal detector that can be used for a
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: giant field of people. I agree or disagree We.
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: Have a quad at my university. I'm a I'm a
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: college professor. We have events out on the quad all
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: the time. It's immediately adjacent my office. As a matter
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: of fact, I can stand at my office when to
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: look out over it. I've never seen a metal detector
• 41:34
  Speaker 6: out there. And you know, the fact is it's a
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: space for free speech. And Charlie Kirk, you know, God
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: rest his soul. And I understand that he is high profile.
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: He ain't the president of the United States. All right,
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: that's that's not That's not part and parcel of this. Now,
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: was it was? Was there a lack of attention to security? Yeah? Probably? Uh,
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: And I'm by no means a security expert. If it
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: had been me, I probably would have had people watching
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: the rooftops, particularly if there were any suspected threats against him.
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: I would have had more people deployed out there just
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: handling it. The local constabularies, not just the campus police.
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: You would bring in some of your law enforcement partners.
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: But yeah, do I think that there was what's the
• 42:24
  Speaker 6: term they use now, intentionality? Is that that term that
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: they use? I hate that word, but let's just use
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: it right now and just say that there was intentionality
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: on the part of these individuals to deprive Charlie of security. Therefore,
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: if that's what is being suggested, all of their fingers
• 42:45
  Speaker 6: are on the proverbial trigger here. They're all part and
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: parcel and party to a homicide that has been committed
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: Ain Biden.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: The testimony in the hearing has opened up a whole
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: another her arterial flood of conspiracy theories regarding the bullet.
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: When when a weapon is cleared, an officer would make
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: his rifle ready, which would chamber around.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, I got you. My understanding was that that's how
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: that was accounted for.
• 43:17
  Speaker 13: So an officer claimed it that bullet belonged to him
• 43:20
  Speaker 13: or her.
• 43:21
  Speaker 16: That's my recollection is that that that was how it
• 43:23
  Speaker 16: was accounted for.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: And when when was that accounted for? I don't know specifically.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Do you remember what type of bullet that was? I
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: don't Was it a thirty odd six?
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Do you remember?
• 43:35
  Speaker 17: I don't.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Okay. Do you know where that bullet is now? I don't. Okay.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: There you see David Agent David Hall on the stand.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: The defense attorney is leading him down the garden path,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: and she's setting up a claim that the bullet did
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: not come from Tyler Robinson's weapon significance. That opens up
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: a line of questioning as to the real killer. Now,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: jo Scott Morgan, we know that the fragment that was
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: recovered is how can I say deformed? It is destroyed.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: It's a fragment of a bullet, just enough left to
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: see the circumference at the bottom to prove it's from
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: a thirty odd to six. But whether it came from
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: that gun cannot be proven by the striations the markings
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: on the bullet. They're going to have a field day.
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: Bullets are deformed all of the time. That's the nature
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: of bullets. They are lead core projectiles that are encased
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: in a copper jacket. Those are soft metals. Guess what
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: happens when they strike a surface. They fragment, They wind
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: up deformed. They particulate. Okay, that's one of the purposes
• 44:58
  Speaker 6: for a projectile. Do they do that? Well? They do
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: it in order to destroy as much tissue as they
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: possibly can. And guess what with this thirty O six
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: round that was fired at Charlie Kirk. It was highly effective.
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: It did its job. It's a man killer as well.
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: You can't ask him now but our troops in World
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: War One killed thousands of people with these rounds. It
• 45:23
  Speaker 6: was specifically made for that. This is the round that
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: they carried in the nineteen o three is what it
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: was referred to, bolt action rifle. That's what our troops carried.
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: They still used it. Our sniper still used it in
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: World War II. It's a highly effective round. Grandpa and
• 45:42
  Speaker 6: great Grandpa used it to hunt deer with. Why do
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: they use it well? Because it's highly effective, and yes,
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: rounds do in fact fragment. Now, is it being suggested
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: that this poor cameraman is out there, what does he have?
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: Was he supplied with this by some kind of unknown
• 46:00
  Speaker 6: foreign agency. He's got a weapon hidden inside of his camera,
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: and let me guess the buttons on the camera that
• 46:07
  Speaker 6: actuates the firing pin in there and around what travels
• 46:11
  Speaker 6: out of where the lens is supposed to be. And
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: he was just positioned just right to strike Charlie in
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: the neck. Let me tell you what's going to happen
• 46:19
  Speaker 6: that people are not aware of, or maybe they're just
• 46:21
  Speaker 6: kind of ignoring right now, that view that we have
• 46:25
  Speaker 6: of Charlie, that static view that we have where he
• 46:29
  Speaker 6: is seated, that ain't the only view there is, that's
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: not the only videography that exists. It's from all points
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: of the compass. What are you going to suggest, then again,
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: another mass hallucination that everybody's phones were impacted and their
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: cameras were compromised. Is that the road that we're going
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: to go now, Well, best of luck with that because
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: it is just not going to match up with what
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: is going to be described in court when this came
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: does in fact go to trial.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: shooting of Charlie Kirk dial toll free eight hundred two
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: two five five three twenty four, We remember American Hero
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Special Agent Aaron Garcia, Union Pacific Rail PD, killed in
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: the line of duty after just two years, leaving behind
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: a grieving wife, Wanna, and sons Aaron and Andrew sentenced
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: to life without dad. American Hero special Agent Aaron Garcia.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: being with us. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: I'll see tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend.