Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Three beautiful girls on shopping trip to the mall go missing. What happened to Mary Rachel Trlica, Lisa Renee Wilson, and Julie Ann Moseley?

Transcript

Three beautiful girls on shopping trip to the mall go missing. What happened to Mary Rachel Trlica, Lisa Renee Wilson, and Julie Ann Moseley? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: A missing trio of young girls age nine, fourteen, and seventeen.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: What do we know about their disappearance? How could three
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: girls be overcome and kidnapped at once? But we say
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the names. It's not just them. There are moms, dad's,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: sisters and brothers with broken hearts waiting for answers. Julie
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Anne Mosley, Renee Wilson, Rachel Trelissa. One of these girls,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: as young as nine years old, is gone. Crime Stories
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. The girls seventeen year old Rachel Calisa,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the former Mary Rachel Arnold, fourteen year old Renee Wilson,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and nine year old Julie Anne Moseley Banny's December twenty third,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: After telling their families they were going shopping, Their abandoned
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: car was found that afternoon in a parking area of
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Seminary South shopping Center. The next day, the only major
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: lead in the case developed when a handwritten note was
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: received stating the three had gone to Houston. Police weren't
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: sure if the note had been written freely. It has
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: since been sent to the FBI lab in Washington for analysis. Tuesday,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a Justin Mann found some undergarments near a stream west
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of justin near Texas Highway one fifty seven. They were
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: not there Christmas Day, but Renee Wilson's parents examined the
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: clothing and determined it did not belong to the missing girls.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Some of our friends called us this morning. They asked
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: me if we'd heard about down the Knees, and I
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: told him no, something. We called in here and they
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: taught us we could come look at them. What happened
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: When you looked at the clothing. They're not Renee, they're
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: not Juliets. I know, renee and heavy thing like that,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and they're bigger and renee and heavy thing that color
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: green like the panties for I know it sounds crazy
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: to a lot of people, but if you showed me underwear,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I would know whether it belonged to my twins twelve
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: years old, John, David and Lucy. Because I buy their underwear.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I know exactly what they have. I know when they
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: outgrow their underwear. I know it sizes, what colors, the works.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: So when a mom says, no, those don't belong to
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: my daughter, the mom knows you were just hearing our
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: friends at WFAATV. That was Mike Miller reporting on the
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: so called fort Worth Trio. I mean and see Grace,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel, crime online dot com
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave mac the founder of the Cold Case
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Research Institute. Forensic expert Cheryl McCullum, Cloyd Stiger thirty six years,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Seattle PD, twenty two years, homicide author Seattle's Forgotten serial
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: killer Gary Jane Grant. You can find him at Cloyd
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Steiger dot com. Special guests joining me, Kim Cadell. If
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: it hadn't been for Kim, I wouldn't even know about
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: this case. She reached me on Facebook. Sandy Harcom, Julie's aunt,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and Richard Wilson, Renee's dad. First to Cheryl McCallum, Joining me, Cheryl,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I want to get an understanding, a forensic unberstanding of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the disappearance of these three girls. Very very rare for
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: three girls to go missing like this. It's extremely rare, Nancy.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And what is shocking to me is they didn't plan
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: this like days in advance. This was something that happened
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: pretty quickly, and the nine year old literally called her
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: mom began, can I please go? Can I please go?
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: To hang out with these teenage girls. So again it
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: wasn't something that people knew about for a few days.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: We know they made it to them all. We know
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: they shopped for Christmas presents because those were found in
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the car, which incidentally was locked when they found it.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: But there's no video of them. There's no you know,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: fingerprints off the car that anybody has told us about.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: So at this point all we have is a car.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: And then the next day a letter shows up at
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Rachel's home addressed to her husband, to Sandy Harcom, this
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: is nine year old Julian Mosley's aunt, Sandy, again, thank
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. What happened that day? You've
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: got two girls about two and a half years apart,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Renee Wilson, Rachel Trelisa one fourteen one seventeen, and then
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: you've got your niece, Julie Anne Mosley. First, how did
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Leanne get hooked up with them on a trip to
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: them all? And did the girls all know each other?
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Rachel and Renee knew each other, and Julie moved across
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the street from Renee's grandmother, and Renee was there quite
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: a bit. In fact, I thought Renee lived there until
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the girls disappeared because she was, you know, there quite often. Also,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Julie's older brother and Renee were going together and he
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: had given her a promise. Ring that morning, Rachel came
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: by asked Renee if she wanted to go, and Julie
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: was there and she wanted to go, and she called
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: my sister and just begged and begged and bagged. My
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: sister wasn't work and she finally said, okay, just be
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: home by six. There were other kids there, Julie's older sister, Janne,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: it was asked to go. There was an older girl
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: even down the street that was asked to and the
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: older girl had Choe and she said, well, I'll just
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: meet you there later. So it wasn't just you know,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: those three, but there are a lot of kids that
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: were invited by day. So you know, this was at
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: a time where it was absolutely fine to go to
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the mall and walk around. Cheryl McCallum, I remember one
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: of my first jobs was working at Sears at the mall,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: and I would be inside working and I would see
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: groups of teams just wandering around, not getting in trouble,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: just going in and out of stores, going to the
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: candy store, going to the food court. It was a
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: very innocent way to pass time and hang out right,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: no question about it. And Nancy, I wanted to tell
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: you something else. I've got a sixteen year old and
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I've got a nine year old meet, and my nine
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: year old meet. All she wants to do is be
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: around Caroline McCollum. She wants the dress like her Caliker.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: They were a hair like her. So I can totally
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: see even where these teenagers would have fun and letting
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: her tag along. So this trip to the mall, looking
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: at records, looking at clothes, going and getting some Christmas presents,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: this was going to be a fabulous afternoon. To Dave Matt,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, exactly where is this,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: what's the name of the mall and where is it located? Okay,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: this is actually in Fort Worth, you know, in that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Fort Dallas Fort Worth area. The mall at the time
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: was a very popular shopping mall. You know, back back
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: in the day we had big, big shopping malls and
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: this was one of those. It had. One of the
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: anchor stores was the Fears which is where they parked by.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: The mall's name was Seminary South they'd actually gone to
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: an Army Navy store on the way to the mall
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: in Fort Worth. Then they arrived at the mall where
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: again so they parked at the Sears parking area in
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: two seminary South Mall. Listen, there's some has happened to him.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I know it because it's just not like them. They
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have thrown off. Nobody heard nothing from them. Well
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: nine days ago I thought maybe they had just went somewhere,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: But now I don't believe they have. I believe they've
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: been picked up by somebody and being held and that
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: have been heard or something. You haven't given up, hope, No,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: huh no, hope, you just when I'm coming back home. Meanwhile,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: police continue checking every possible lead. A reward fund has
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: been established with a Forest Hill State Bank in an
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: effort to prompt even more information. Floyd Stiger with me
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: thirty six years Seattle PD, including homicide and author Cloyd
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the mall. You know, Cloyd, I've just been working on
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: this book so hard. Don't be a victim. It comes
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: out in June, and there is a whole chapter, one
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: of the longest chapters and the one I had to
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: research almost the most was about out and about shopping
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: at malls because it's well, it looks so friendly, it
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: is really full of pitfalls. A lot of people have
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: been abducted from malls, a lot of people have been
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: victimized at malls. Now we know that they parked outside
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: a Sears, which is one of the probably four big
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: anchor stores in the mall. There's usually one in every corner,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: like a Macy's or at that time Belks or Sears.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Long story short, that's where they parked, Cloyd. When I
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: think about it, they were sitting ducks. Three young girls
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: walking into the mall alone and then coming back out alone. Yeah.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Well that's the same thing that attracts teenagers to malls.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Is the same thing is what it attracts predators to
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  Speaker 1: malls because it's what we call a target ridge environment.
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  Speaker 1: And whoever this is is somebody that I don't they
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: went there targeting these three girls. They were just I
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: think it's probably a looking for an opportunity and they
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: found one. So that, yeah, that is the danger of
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: malls and just hanging out of them. What we know
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: is that Rachel's younger brother, or Rusty, said the girls
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: were expected home around four pm, because there was going
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: to be a party. But four pm came and went.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: The girls never showed up. Remember we're just talking about
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: a nine year old, a fourteen year old, a seventeen
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: year old girl. When they didn't arrive, everyone started to
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: get worried. Then the son began to set the parents
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: started getting home from work, and the girls still were
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: not there. Richard Wilson with me. Renee's father gathered together himself,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: members of the neighborhood and they drove that ten minute
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: trip to the mall to search for the girls. Richard Wilson,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: tell me about what happened when you got home from
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: work that afternoon. Well, when I got home from work,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I was already home, and she said Renee them hadn't
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: made it home, and she wanted to go down to
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the mill and look. Me and Beauty went down to
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: the mall and drove. She went through the stores and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I drove all over that parking lot and we found nothing,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: and she called the police. They wouldn't come out after
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: you know, eleven o'clock when the moell closed. Why that's
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: the only thea that they can tell you. Oh my stars,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: because the girls, I mean, I know they made it
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: to them all. I don't know yet whether they made
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: it inside them all For all, I know they've been
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: missing since they first got there, if they were abducted
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: in the parking lot before they ever went in. But
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: do we know one way or the other, Richard, if
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: they made it in the mall where they spotted in
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the mall. Yeah, they were supposedly spotted in a Murphy's
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: store and shoe store, and it's supposedly somebody so we
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: here was following them, a tall, skinny guy but a
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: jacket on it, head California on it. So we know
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that really helps with the timeline, Cheryl, because we know
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: they got in them all and they probably wandered around.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: And I mean that in a good way. You know,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: when you don't have any real agenda, you just go in.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I can't even remember the last time I did not
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: have a schedule or an agenda, But teens do that.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: They go in and one of them is nine and
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: all they have to do is get home in time
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: to go to a little party, so they're just kind
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: of wandering around. I can just see him going to
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: the food court too, does Shu store, looking at all
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: the windows, going by Spencers. Do you remember that poster? Police?
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I think it actually still exists, but I could see that, Nancy.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I know mister Wilson, Renee's dad was talking about what
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: was going on that day. Well. The Trace Evidence podcast,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: The Apparances of the fort Worth Three Steve Pacheco specifically
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: talks about whether or not the girls were seeing in
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the mall. Take a listen to this. Several witnesses reported
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: seeing the girls at the mall. When a girl failed
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: to return home by four pm, their families became concerned
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: and by six pm Rachel's younger brother, Rusty was on
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the scene with his mother. They found the car locked
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: up with Christmas presents inside. They went to every store
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: in the mall, having the girls paged, but there was
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: no response. Police were called and when they arrived they
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: did a sweep of the mall. Several witnesses gave conflicting
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: accounts of seeing the girls in the parking lot in
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the company of a man. Now we know they made
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: it in safely, so whatever happened originated either in the
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: mall or on their way out of them all. That
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: makes a big difference in the timeline, Cheryl. It makes
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: a huge difference fancy. But there was a young man
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: that came forward in nineteen seventy file that said he
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: ran into them at a wrect the store and did
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: see a man that he thought was following them a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: lean around them. But we also know there were Christmas
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: presents in her vehicle that was locked, so we can
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: put them there, no question about it. Back to Richard Wilson,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: this is Renee's dad. Renee just fourteen years old when
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: she goes missing. So you get to them all. You
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: can't find anything in the parking lot, but you see
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: the vehicle. Correct. No, Renee's kind of an uncle came
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: down there with us and he went out and found
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: that car because he was there at Renee's grandmother's that day,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and I think he spoke to him and he found
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: that car. And I'm understanding that Christmas gifts, this happens
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: at Christmas time. We're in the car and the car
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: was locked. Richard, Yes, it was locked. The Christmas gift
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: that was in there was supposedly so everybody says was
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: a gift that Renee had got for Sean, which is
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Tommy's a little boy. I'm curious did they back it
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: up with a receipt that would have been timed, so
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: they knew at what time the girls he bought it
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: from home from home? Oh see, that changes things, Cheryl?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Did you get that that changed everything? I see, I
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: didn't know that. I knew there was a gift in
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: the car, But the fact that she didn't buy it
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: in the mall that hurts the case that it hurts
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the timeline I'm building in my head, because if you
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: buy something in the mall, it'll have the time of
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the date on the receipt. They can look that up.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: But if she brought that from home to give away,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: that doesn't help me with my timeline. But we do
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: know the car was locked. Okay, what does that tell me?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: It tells me most likely they were not abducted from
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the car, because if they were taken on the way
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: to the car and they had unlocked at the kidnapper
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: who have not had neatly you know, locked the car
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: back back to Richard Wilson. So you get there that night,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you can't find hiding her hair of them. What happens next, Richard? Well,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I drove down to a guy that wanted to date Renee,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: and I told him Nope, never happened, and I guess
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: he decided it was easier to leave her alone than
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: to mess with me. And I think he was in
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the next day, the detective come out to the house
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: that he had a phone call that those girls were
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: sold in a well. And do you remember that night, Richard,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: you come back from them all and tell your wife
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: or him you and your wife are talking about no clues.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: What was that first night like when you could not
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: find your daughter? Okay, about one o'clock I carried my
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: wife home, picked up the Arnold's next door neighbor, which
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: was a friend of mine, closer than my own brother.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: He went down here with me and we sat down
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: there in front of Sears garage and watch that car
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: all night. No security guards went by. Nobody came back
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to that car. Joining me right now. Kim Cadell, a neighbor,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: a family friend who feels so strongly about this case.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: She contacted crime Online dot Com and me on Facebook. Kim,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: tell me what you know about the case. I want
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: as much information out there as possible for those of
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: you listening. We're talking about the so called fort Worth trio.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Is just three little girls. Julianne Moseley aged nine, Renee
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Wilson fourteen, Rachel Trelisa just seventeen, Tipline eight one seven
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: four six nine eight four seven seven repeat eight one
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: seven four six nine eight four seven seven Kim Cadell
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: jump in. You know, that's the sad thing about the cases.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: There's just no real facts out there to know. For me,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: the biggest clue has always been that the letter. You
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: don't seeing the girls have gone to Houston. Other than
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that letter, it seems like they just vanished and they
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: just haven't been a whole lot of clues left behind.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace, my sister, and two of
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: your friends went on a shopping trip to what was
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: then Seminary South Back on December twenty third, byteen seventy four,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and all three of the girls just vanished and we
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: never saw me. This has been a case that has
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: weighed on these three families all of these years. Listen,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I've spent my entire adult life looking for my sister,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: and I will never stop. Today we're gonna know we're
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: getting the third car out, and we're gonna know we
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: could be within three inches of the car and miss
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: it completely. It's supposed to be a quick, easy procedure.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: But there's nothing quick and easy when you're doing a dive.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Let imagine laying in a coffin and closing the door.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: The first six inches you see a green blur, but
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: past that it's pitch black. All you can hear is
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: your bubbles. Nobody understands just how dangerous this dive is.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: It's a black water dive. You can't see your hand
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: in front of your face. You were just hearing from
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: our friends at the fort Worth Star Telegram. Divers renewing
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the search for the three girls, dive into the black
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: water of a deep lake, searching for any evidence that
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: could relate back to the so called fort Worth Trio.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: This one man search the brother of a missing girl
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: for his missing sister, takes him all the way to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the bottom of a lake. And let me tell you,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: before I had the twins, Sandy Harcom, this is Julie's aunt.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I dived all over the world. Every time I got
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: a day off of work, I would go somewhere and
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: dive all the way down, over one hundred feet below
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: sea level. And one thing I always hated was a
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: lake dive or a night dive, because you can't see
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and it's very, very difficult to do. What we know
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: is that the hope is that somehow, some way we're
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: going to find evidence linking back to these three little girls.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Sandy Harcomb, Julie's aunt at the time Julie goes missing.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: What were your first thoughts. I really couldn't tell you.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't know until the next day, about ten o'clock
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: in the morning that they were gone. My mom called
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: me and told me, and I said, well, you know,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: what do you mean they're gone? And she said, they
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: never came back from shopping. And it's just so wrap
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: your head around that, you know. I couldn't. I couldn't imagine.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: And she said, just whatever you do, though, don't call
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: the house because you know, runing was to keep the
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: line open in case they do the hawk and something
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to think about too. That day it was a very
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: warm December day. They didn't have coats, you know. And
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: that mall also, it's not the mall that you think
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: about all today. That mall didn't have a closure on it.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: The stores were all linked together, but in the center
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: it was open. There wasn't a top on it or anything.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: But as far as as I just couldn't imagine what
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: had happened, you know. It just things like that. This
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: didn't happen to our families. We were talking about three
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: little girls that go missing on a trip to the mall,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: back to Richard Wilson, Renee's father. So I'm imagining you
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: over there by the Sears garage where they do the
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: tires and all that, and you're keeping your eyes trained
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: on the vehicle that the girls were in when they
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: came to them. All what happened after that? I want
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: to hear about the letter that was received. The letter
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: that was received. I understand that Debbie carried it over
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: to her mother's house and they called the police. The
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: police came out, well where's the envelope. They had to
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: go back to the house and find an envelope. And
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the envelope was supposedly mail from Truck Martin and received
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: the same day, and they supposedly got it about ten
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. I think that there was hands
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: stamped at the little post office in Seminary itself, and
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: it was held onto because they don't the elope don't
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: fit the letter. It's not voted ride you try to
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: put it in there. The paper's not the right size
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: to go in the Let's call in forensic expert and
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the founder of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: let's talk for a moment about the letter and the
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: significance of the letter. Apparently there was no city name
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: on the postmark, only a blurred postal service number. And
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: it also appears that the three written on their seven
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: six eight three was backward or was it an unfinished eight.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: But whatever the content of the letters, it's significant. What
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: do we know, Cheryl McCollum, Well, he's right. When you
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: look at how the letter itself is folded, it would
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: not have fit in that envelope. That's one thing. The
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: other thing, the envelope itself, to me is a money treat.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: You can take the stamp off of that and try
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: to get DNA off the back of it. You can
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: try to get DNA off where somebody would have in
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the seventies had to have licked it to feel it.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: You could also get a partial palm print where they
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: put their hand down and was writing on the taper itself,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: also fingerprints where they held it and attempted to mail
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: it or run it through the stamp machine. I think
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: that's where they need to go. The letter itself is
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: also curious. The person starts by saying, I know I'm
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: gonna catch it, but we had to get away. They
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: start with I and then immediately go to weed. But
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: it's like the other two people aren't going to be
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: in trouble for running away. And what's so crazy is
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: they're going to run away, but you're not going to
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: take your car, you're not going to have the money,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: you don't have anywhere to sleep or get food or
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: anything like that. It makes no sense. The other thing
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense is the way the envelope
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: is address. It's addressed very formal, so it would appear like,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I know, you know Rachel recently was married, but it
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: looked like whoever addresses to her husband did so formally
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and used Thomas a Hern address as simply Rachel. When
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the three girls did not return for earth, police was
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: called in. It was handed over to the Youth Division
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: of the Missing Person's Bureau. Sadly, the girls were presumed
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: to be runaways, which totally stalled the investigation. The next day.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: The very next day, a letter was received in the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: mailbox at the at Rachel's home that appeared to be
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: written by Rachel. See that that's the big part of this.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: That is extremely significant time stories with Nancy Grace. The
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: next day, Thomas Trelisa received a strange letter in the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: mail alleged to have been written by Rachel, explaining that
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: they had gone to Houston and would return in a week.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: The letter sparked controversy, with no one believing Rachel had
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: actually written it, and even accusations that had in fact
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: been written by Rachel's sister Deborah. As the years passed,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Thomas would move away and sever all ties to the family,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Deborah would become a person of interest, at least in
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the minds of the family and especially in the mind
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: of her brother Rusty. Dave, Matt, what's it all about, Nancy.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: There's a very interesting relationship dynamic. Okay. We were listening
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to the Tracy Evidence podcast, The Disappearance of the fort
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: were three, hosted by Steve Pacheco. Tommy was married to Rachel,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: but prior to marrying Rachel, Tommy was romantically involved with
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Rachel's sister Deborah. They were involved enough that at one
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: point in time Tommy and Deborah were engaged, they broke up.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Tommy then Mary's Deborah's sister Rachel. At the time of
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the disappearance, Deborah had moved in with and was living
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: with Tommy and Rachel. And it was the morning after
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: the disappearance that the mysterious letter shows up and Deborah
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and Tommy find that letter. A letter was received in
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the mailbox at Rachel's home that appeared to be written
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: by Rachel. See that that's the big part of this
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: that is extremely significant. Whether it was or it wasn't.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: It appeared to be written by Rachel, but yet the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: addressing on the front, as Cheryl pointed out, was to
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: It was very formal, like if someone wrote me that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: knows me, and they put to the Honorable Nancy A
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Grace Esquire who knows me, that would write that. That's
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: what you formally put on the end of a letter
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: to a lawyer. So it seems as if this was
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: not written by Rachel, but it was purportedly written by Rachel.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: The letter was written in ink, but the addressed envelope
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: was written in pencil. The letter was written on a
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: sheet of paper that was wider than the envelope. That's
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: what everybody's trying to say about how it wouldn't have
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: fit into the envelope, but if you folded it over
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: you can make it fit in there. It was addressed
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: formally as I said, also what we know Rachel. The
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: word Rachel was written in the upper left hand corner
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: of the envelope. It appeared to be initially misspelled, as
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: the L in her name was written like a lowercase E,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: but it had been gone over again to form a
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: correct L. The postmark did not contain a city, only
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: a blurred ZIP code that appeared to be seven six
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: eight three, but the three looks backward like it was
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: applied by a hand loaded stamp. That is what Richard
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Wilson was trying to explain. We assume that zip code
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: was meant to be either seven six o three eight,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: which comes from Eliasaville near throck Morton, Texas, or seven
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: six eight eight, which comes from Weatherford, Texas. Back at
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: the time of the letter, handwriting experts across the nation
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: looked at the letter, including the FBI, but every time
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: the results seemed to come back in conclusive. Now back
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: to Richard Wilson, Renee's father. What did the letter say, well,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I'd like to say one more thing about that postmark. Okay,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I can come up with five more letters with exactly
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the same postmark. Who are they? They're in a friend
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: of mine house. It was like, I think, invitations about
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: one of her kids and other things. Hmm. I have
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: a copy of all of those letters. I'm trying to
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: figure out what exactly the contents of the letter said. Okay,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the letter just says going to Houston, be back in
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: about a week. I know I'm going to catch it.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: And then it just says, Rachel, it's not much there. Well,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: that doesn't even make sense. I know I'm going to
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: catch it, but we had to get away. We're going
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: to Houston see you in about a week. The car
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: is in Sears upper lot, Love Rachel. The person who
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: put that car in that lot had to know that.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: The letter who wrote exactly that had to be the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: person that was there, because they knew where the car
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: was parked. Cheryl McCollum, Director of Cold Case Research Institute
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: for instic Expert. We're learning a lot. We know Rachel
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: did not write the letter number one. We know that
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: it may not have truly been addressed. I'm not convinced
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: it even went through the mail. Was it marked Cheryl
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: as if it had actually gone through the mail? Or
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: could it have been hand delivered? Okay? Straight up, if
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you are at a business that has one of the
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: machines where you can just handload a bunch of letters,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Let's say you take fifty of them and you just
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: run these through and take them home and put your
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Christmas card in it and then mail it. That could
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: have happened. And what I want to be real clear
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: about did it actually go through the mail? That's my question.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: You don't know that somebody could have taken envelope home,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. And if they appeared, did they
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: have gone through the mail? That's what I'm saying. We
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: don't know, Richard. Did the envelope look like it went
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: through the mail or could it have been stamped and
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: hand delivered? Yeah, it looked like it went through the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: mail because four or five letters got it. Got it? Okay?
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: That's that is significant because that letter came within like
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: seventy two hours of the girls missing or less. That
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: means the letter was sent almost immediately after the girls
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: go missing. Cheryl. So this person, Nancy, you got to
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: hear me out. Okay, go I'm today. In today's time,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: it's going to take three days for that letter to
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: get there. In the seventies, it could have taken a week.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: There is no way if you kidnap somebody at four
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: o'clock and mail a letter that their family is going
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: to get it the next morning in the mail, especially
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: a December twenty third with all these added Christmas cards
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: in that sort of thing. I called bogus on that
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: hand stamp. That's what I'm saying, guys. But this is
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: it's significant whether this went through the mail or whether
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: somebody made it appear it went through the mail and
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: delivered what I'm saying they made it. Now we also
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: know the ten cent stamp had been canceled that morning
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: December twenty four. What does that mean It was canceled,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: That mean it was stamped by a mail but it
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: could have been a handstamp. The significance of that, let
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: me circle back to you, Richard, is that if it
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: was hand delivered, that means this is somebody that knows
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: you guys, that go back to the home to leave
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: that letter and I pick it up on something. Cheryl said,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: this went out immediately did it? Could it really have
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: gone through the mail and arrived say they go missing?
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: How many days passed before the letter came in Richard?
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: The next day? No? No, no, do you see the
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: problem with that, Cloyd Steiger. I'm focusing on the letter
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: because it don't have anything else to focus on. And plus,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: this is written by the perpetrator. These girls didn't write
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: this letter. Yeah, there's no question about that. And you're
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: exactly right, Cheryl is exactly right. You're not going to
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: get it the next day, especially right before Christmas in
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: a town like that. It doesn't because it doesn't do
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: that today. So somethingly didn't do it in nineteen seventy four.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Let's follow what our theory is to the logical conclusion.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: The logical conclusion is at somehow the perpetrator could get
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: away from the girls, because you know, they were not
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: in the car when that letter was delivered, all the
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: way back to their home. He had them somewhere, or
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: they were already killed, but he circles back to the home.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: This is not random. Why if you randomly kidnap somebody
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: and let's just say, you rape them and you kill them,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: or you just kill them or you rob them and
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: you kidnap them. You want to get away, get rid
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: of the evidence as fast as you can. You're not
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: going back to the house to leave some bogus letter.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: This is not random. Do you hear me, Cheryl? I
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: hear you see and I agree with you. This person
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: not only to the time to know where the victim's
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: cart is at. That means they watched them part. They
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: knew where the car was, they knew her address, they
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: knew her husband's formal name. And you with me is
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Julie's aunt, Sandy Harkum. Sandy, what do you make of it?
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I think the letter was supposed to throw everybody off,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: and it makes no sense, like you said, because a
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: complete stranger that's going to have dot three girls, it's
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: not going to take the time to set and write
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: a letter and send it to the family. I mean,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: they're gonna get them and go. So that letter was
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: kind of a smoking one out a smoking gun, but
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: a smoke screen, And it worked for a while because
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: that's what the detective used every time you ask them
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: what's going on with the case while they ran away.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Here's the letter. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. The next
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: day The only major lead in the case developed when
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: a handwritten note was received stating the three had gone
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: to Houston. Police weren't sure if the note had been
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: written free lead. It has since been sent to the
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: FBI lab in Washington for analysis. You were just hearing
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: our friends at WFAATV. You know, another really important part
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: about this letter is that when Tommy he came to
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: his place. When Tommy picked up the letter out of
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the mailbox, nothing else was in the mailbox. No Christmas cards,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: no bills, no flyers, nothing, which if they had been
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: thinking straight, they would have printed. They would have dusted
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: that mailbox for prints and the letter and the DNA.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Do we know, I'm just, you know, throwing this out there.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Do we know? Richard Wilson. Richard is Renee Wilson's dad.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: His girl was fourteen years old. When he gets home
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: from work and finds out Renee never came home from them,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: all his life been torn apart since this happened. You know,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: when I cover a case like this, I just have
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: to go get in my car and go straight over
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: to the school. And sometimes I've even looked in the
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: window at the children. They go, there's mom again. Parking lot.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I can't help it when I think of what Richard
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Wilson and the other parents of these girls have been through.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Fourteen years old, nine years old, seventeen years old. Richard,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: it really strikes me that there was nothing else in
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: that mailbox. That's because the mail hadn't even come yet.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: And the mail don't run that early over here. Because
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I live approximately four blocks from Tommy's house, I get
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: my mail anywhere from five to seven o'clock at night.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Me too, I see them out five, six, seven o'clock
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: at night delivering them out. You know, I'm not knocking them,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you this. I also do not
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: get mail at ten o'clock in the morning. Okay, Cheryl,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: we can go on and on and on about this,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: but what does it mean. It means did you ever
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: put the letter in the mailbox? It's in fact, it
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: was ever in the mailbox, and it wasn't placed there
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: by somebody that was in that home. Because here, you
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: got to look at Tommy. If this was a real investigation,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: you have to look at him first. Well, I've already
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: looked at him, but you know what, that's a very
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: good point. Let's look at Tommy. Go ahead, where was
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: he that day? Cheryl? You got you gotta look at Tommy.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: You know why you of all three families, three different addresses,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: three different girls, why did the letter come to you?
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: That's significant. Then you look at why the letter does
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: not fit the envelope. It doesn't appear that it was
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: folded and put into that exact envelope when it was
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: taken over to the other house. The envelope wasn't even
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: brought with it. Why not? You would take everything. So
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you the money tree here is on the
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: back of that stamp and on the inside of the seal.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Somebody had to look back to see it if it
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: was ever sealed to Richard Wilson, Renee's dad. Do we know, Richard,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: if a DNA analysis has been done on the stamp
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: or the seal? Oh yeah, but they say the DNA
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: did not match nobody that they found up was yet that.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Now Sandy or Kim one may know that. Yeah,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: let's find out. Kim Cadell. What do you know? We
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: just had a meeting with the chief of police and
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: in the abjective and they say that there's just not
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: enough DNA on the back of the stamp to do
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: anything else with it. Is that correct, Sandy? Well, they
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: did said, as Richard said, they have ruled out everyone
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: in Deborah and they've they've run the DNA. What they're
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: saying now is because I would like for this to
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: go to the Paragon Lab in Virginia where they can
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: actually do a composite of the persons you know from
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: the DNA, they said, there's just not enough left on
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: there anymore to do that. But they have, they have
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: tested the DNA and supposedly ruled out a number of people.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I find the interesting, Cloyd Steiger that she's saying, Sandy
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Harcom is saying, and I have no reason to believe
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: she is not correct, because she's just come out of
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: this meeting with authorities that the DNA doesn't match any
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: of the family or the people they they secure DNA from.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: But back to Cheryl's question, it needs to go into
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: kotas the national DNA data bank, and it needs to
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: be put in ancestry. What is it ancestry dot com
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: twenty three and me there is the data bank used
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: by the Golden State Killer Detectives, which was a public
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: data bank. What about that? Chloyd. What do we what
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: do we have to do to make that happen? Well,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: it does have to be a complete profile. But my
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: question would be how long ago did they do the DNA,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: because I mean, it advanced so much in the last
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: couple of years that smaller amounts you can get more
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: with and so that would be my first question. And
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: if they have a partial they could. They can't eliminate
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: people by direct comparison, but you have to have the
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: full profile. But I wonder how long ago they did this?
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: They mean he did try to do it again? Guys.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: I have investigated and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I have covered literally thousands of cases of missing people,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: adults and children, unsolved homicides, violent crimes. After all the cases,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: after speaking to all the victims, all the police, all
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: the witnesses over years, my question is what can we
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: do about it. I don't want to just sit back
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: and report on it. I want to take action. And
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I know you must feel the same way. You don't
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: want to just hear about crime. You want to do
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: something about it and do something to stop it. And
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: here is the news. We have all worked so hard
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: to bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting back
• 43:34
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• 43:45
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• 43:50
  Speaker 1: now go to Crime online dot com. Time Stories with
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. The next day, the only major lead in
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the case developed when a handwritten note was received stating
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: the three had gone to Houston. Police weren't sure if
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: the note had been written freely. It has since been
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: sent to the FBI lab in Washington for analysis. It's
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: just hard for me to believe the only thing we
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: have to go on is that letter back to Richard
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: will Serene's father, and you believe you know who wrote
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: the letter, Hugh, tell me, well, the handwriting on that letter.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: We have all kinds of symptoms did match out of
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: the writing. We've got divorced papers, marriage license d the houses,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: letters to a judge eskin for some of the inheritance
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: you know, comes back to the same one. Do y'all
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: have just the second? I mean, I would like to
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: say this one thing real quick. So when I sent
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: that information, all the handwriting samples that mister Wilson is
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: talking about which was known to be written by Tommy,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: like they were legal documents, and a girl came forward
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: and gave us like a two page letter. And when
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: that came back from Wendy Carlson that Thomas Telisa authored
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: those documents, the cold case detective told mister Wilson, I've
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: got good news and bad news. The good news is
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: it came back from DPS because they had had their
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: They told mister Wilson that Tommy wrote the envelope, that
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: DPS did not agree that he wrote the letter. And
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: then the detective wanted me to call her and give
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: her a POTE number. I called her. We had a
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: forty five minute discussion, same thing. Tommy wrote the envelope.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: It was confirmed by DPS. And then when Sandra and
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I had our meeting, they clearly said, Nope, that's not
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: what it said. Y'amas understood and there is no they
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: that as lad Tommy wrote better are the envelope? Have
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: you ever confronted him? Oh? Yes, I told Tommy one time,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: I know where you're at because the police called me
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: and told me that they had sent called Tommy so
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: many times, but he won't answer them and he won't
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: call him back. And when he came to Fort Worth,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: he called me and I told him, I know where
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: you're at, Tommy, and I'm going to be out there
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: an amend it. Only two I only woman was gonna
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: walk away, and he ran down to the police department.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Police department called me back and told me, I know
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Tommy did it, but I can't prove it. He has
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: no conscience. He can pass my detector tests as fast
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: as I can throw him at him. And he said,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: if you ever get any trouble over that boy, call
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: me first. As of right now, Tommy or anyone else
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: has not been named a person of interest or a
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: suspect in this case. Let me go back to Richard Wilson.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: This is Renee's dad. Richard. Do you believe that the
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: mall and the mall employees were canvased thoroughly? I really
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: doubt it because that detective that got this case, my opinion,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: he was useless. Why why he came to my house
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: I think it was the next day and told me
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: those girls throw in the well. He was going to
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: check it, and I thought, well, I'm going to follow
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: this bird. And when he went out of my house,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: he went up the street. My pickup was parked across
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: the street. I went down the street about two blocks
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: and cut back to the street and got behind him,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: and I followed him to a coffee shop. And I
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: sat across the street at a barber shop, and he
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: stayed in there about thirty minutes. Come out, went down
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: at Hemphield went down the city Hall called me a
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: little later. There was nothing to it. Well, there wasn't
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: nothing to it because I know there's not no well
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: in that coffee shop. You know, mister Wilson, your remind
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: me so much as my dad. I always I could
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: just reached through this microphone and get to you. What
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: can you tell me, miss Wilson about a woman who
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: told a store clerk that she saw one or more
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: men getting girls to go into a pickup truck. We
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: could okate that woman, but that's what was told to
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: a clerk. What other clues emerged to Dave mac investigative
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: reporter Crime Online Nancy. There had been a number of
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: eyewitness accounts, but they seemed to conflict with one another.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Early on in the investigation, there was a former police
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: officer who was working security for Sears at the time,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: and he actually his name is Bill Hutchins, I believe,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: and he said that he at that night, at eleven thirty,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: the night they went missing, that he actually saw a
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: security truck with a security guy dressed in uniform in
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: the front seat and three girls in the vehicle. He
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: even described the youngest one sitting right next to the driver,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: and another little bit older girl in the middle of that,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: and then on the far side, next to the passenger door,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: an older girl. And he told police this at the time,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: said that he actually questioned, what are you doing out here?
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: And he said that they kind of blew him off
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: and then went on about their way, and he told
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: police the next day. They never followed up. He told
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: the story a couple of different times and it never
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: let anywhere, And the last time was in two thousand
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: and one when they reopened the case and mister Hutchinson
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: again said, hey, this is what I saw that night. Again,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: there were other stories that came out of this from
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: again I'm putting air quotes around eyewitnesses, because there were
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: other people who claimed that they saw the girls being
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: physically pushed into a van on the day they went missing. Yeah,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: and there was another eyewitnesses saw a girl says he
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: saw a girl being forced into a van and he
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: asked the guy, hey, hey, hey, what are you doing?
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: And the guy says it's a family matter, but out
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: and he has repeatedly stated that the families extremely frustrated
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: with the investigation. Hire a private eye, John Swain. Swain
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: discovers a twenty six year old man making a string
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: of obscene phone calls in the area and had worked
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: for a store in fort Worth where Rachel had applied
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: for a job just before Christmas. Turns out he was
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: using his position to get information from young women who
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: had applied for a job, and on all their applications
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: they would have their home addresses. Six women who applied
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: at the store had been getting those obscene phone calls.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: He also once lived in the neighborhood of Rachel's parents.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: In the end that suspect nothing ever came of him.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: There have been hundreds of volunteers that have searched. There
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: have been skeletons that have been found in a field
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: that were compared to dental records and X rays. Not
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: the girls. Psychics have pointed to oil wells nothing. We
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: also know that a volunteer diver dragging cars from Benbrook Lake,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: possibly tied to the so called fort Worth Missing Trio.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Listen on the shore at Benbrook Laked divers were ready
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: to breathe the murky deep, searching for concrete answers. We're
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: gonna bring those cars up. We're gonna put this part
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: of it to rest, whether there or whether they're not.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Rusty Arnold was just eleven years old when his big
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: sister Rachel disappeared. The family has had missing persons posters
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: printed up and a reward fund Distabilis WFA has covered
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: the case from the beginning. She was seventeen and days
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: before Christmas she drove to a fort Worth mall with
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: her friend Renee and nine year old Julianne Moseley. Has happened, Tune?
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: I know. There have been countless leads and theories, including
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: a letter purportedly from Rachel that said the trio suddenly
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: decided to go to Houston, but they have never been found.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: This is just a hunch, it's all it is. Rusty
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: believes the answer may be here. There's two vehicles over there.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Three cars found in Benbrook Lake they say have been
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: there since the late seventies. Next month, they plan to
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: pull them out and look inside. I think we all
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: know what I'm hoping to find. You were just hearing
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: from our friends at the Fort Worth Star Telegram. It
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: was a very dangerous dive. The car's nearly forty feet
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: down and pitch black water. To Dave Matt, Crime online
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, what happened with the die, Well,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: they actually were able to get two of there were
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: three cars that were found at the bottom of the lake.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: They were able to bring up and they were able
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: to get a piece of the other one, but it
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: was just two. It was falling apart as they brought
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: it up, and they actually entered a couple of divers
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: in that last dive and called it off after that.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: But the end result was none of those cars were
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: tied directly back to this case. The case is now
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: being reopened and assigned to a homicide detective. He believes
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the girls left them all with someone they trusted. He
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: says that they were at one point scene with one individual,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: but believed there was more than one person involved. To
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Kim Cadell, what do you make of it, I definitely
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: think it was somebody that they knew and trusted and
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: with Sandy. I do believe that that letter, you know,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: to throw the investigation off and bit of time to
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Sandy Harcom, Julie's aunt, Sandy, what do you believe happened? Well, again,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I believe that they did involves someone that the older
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: girl knew, and that Julie and maybe even Renee were
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: don't know that they were taken from the mall. It
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: could have been that they went somewhere in the car,
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: something happened, and whoever drove the car back to the
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: mall and left it there. And finally to Richard Wilson, Richard,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: what do you believe happened? Really? I really don't know,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Dave mac what is the theory cops are working with Nancy.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: The basic thing they're looking at is that, other than
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: the girls running off, is that they actually went willingly
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: with somebody they knew. Ostensibly, they believe that Rachel might
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: have known the individual and that they left with her then,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: but a years later Nancy were left with not much
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: more than they knew the day after they got the letter.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: It's just been sitting there for all these years. And
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: as mister Wilson pointed out at the very beginning, the
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: first detective placed on the case didn't seem to follow
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: up anything. It's coact. You know, they never fingerprinted the vehicle.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: They might not. They didn't do anything with the car,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: They didn't do any kind of investigation. Could I say something? Yes?
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: Jump in. My sister and I went a couple of
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: months later to the police department. I mean it was
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: one of the many times that we had gone, but
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: just to see how the investigation was going. And the
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: detectives told us, and I'm going to quote that, well,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: at this time, we're really not looking because Easter's coming
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: and we think they're going to be found with the
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Easter eggs, meaning people are out and about and they're
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: going to find them. Tiger, What if anything can be
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: done now, well, you know sort of said being redound
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: or done carefully on the envelope. This is the frustrations
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: because you have nobody, You have no physical evidence at
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: all other than that letter, and unless somebody comes across
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: the bodies somewhere, and they haven't in forty seven years,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: so the odds are there not. I don't know what
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: else you could do, but I think the best route
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: would be to take that DNA and do some genealogy
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: on it. That may be your only hope. And to
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, you are the founder of the Cold Case
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Investigative Research Institute. What can be done now, Nancy? I
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: think you can also go back and talk to every
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: single person again. The family can go back and say, hey,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: now that we're talking, I did notice that X never
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: search for them, or X never seems concerned, or X
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: wanted to move past it and make you know everything
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: better and just say, hey, you know they're going to
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: turn up or whatever. It is odd to me that
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: somebody that would be a stranger that we kidnap three
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: young women would send something with potential evidence on it
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: telling people where to find the car. That just doesn't
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: ring true for any reason. And if you kidnap three
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: people and you're by yourself, which is hard to do,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: one of them would have run. So it's difficult for
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: me to believe that you've got three people in a
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: car by force alone. And then within an hour you've
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: supposedly nailed some letter using two different writing instruments, and
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: you just happen to have an envelope, and you happen
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: to have a way to handload it. You happen to
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: have a stamp. I mean, none of this rings truth.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: I mean it just doesn't. There's something very wrong with
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: the story. There's trying to get us to believe, and
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about the perfect