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Is This the Future of Risk Management in ETFs? Understanding Autocallable Innovation · Views from 6,230

• 0:01
  Welcome
• 0:02
  to
• 0:02
  the
• 0:02
  Adjusted
• 0:03
  for
• 0:03
  Risk
• 0:03
  podcast.
• 0:05
  Join
• 0:05
  myself,
• 0:06
  Ryan
• 0:06
  Nauman,
• 0:07
  as
• 0:07
  I
• 0:07
  talk
• 0:07
  markets,
• 0:08
  investments,
• 0:09
  economics-
• 0:10
  Let's
• 0:10
  get
• 0:10
  started
• 0:10
  and
• 0:10
  life,
• 0:10
  as
• 0:11
  I
• 0:11
  help
• 0:11
  prepare
• 0:12
  you
• 0:12
  for
• 0:12
  the
• 0:13
  upcoming
• 0:13
  week
• 0:13
  in
• 0:14
  markets.
• 0:15
  I
• 0:15
  work
• 0:16
  for
• 0:16
  Zephyr,
• 0:17
  and
• 0:17
  all
• 0:17
  opinions
• 0:17
  expressed
• 0:18
  by
• 0:18
  myself
• 0:19
  and
• 0:19
  my
• 0:20
  podcast
• 0:20
  guests
• 0:21
  are
• 0:21
  solely
• 0:21
  of
• 0:21
  their
• 0:22
  own
• 0:22
  opinions
• 0:22
  and
• 0:23
  do
• 0:23
  not
• 0:23
  reflect
• 0:24
  the
• 0:24
  opinion
• 0:24
  of
• 0:25
  Zephyr
• 0:26
  or,
• 0:26
  in
• 0:26
  form
• 0:26
  of,
• 0:27
  its
• 0:27
  parent
• 0:27
  company.
• 0:29
  This
• 0:29
  podcast
• 0:30
  is
• 0:30
  for
• 0:30
  informational
• 0:31
  purposes
• 0:32
  only
• 0:32
  and
• 0:32
  should
• 0:32
  not
• 0:33
  be
• 0:33
  relied
• 0:33
  on
• 0:34
  for
• 0:34
  investment
• 0:35
  decisions.
• 0:38
  Welcome,
• 0:39
  everyone,
• 0:39
  to
• 0:39
  Zephyr's
• 0:40
  Adjusted
• 0:40
  for
• 0:41
  Risk
• 0:41
  podcast.
• 0:42
  We
• 0:42
  are
• 0:42
  recording
• 0:43
  live
• 0:43
  on
• 0:43
  location
• 0:45
  at
• 0:45
  the
• 0:45
  Exchange
• 0:46
  ETF
• 0:46
  Conference
• 0:47
  in
• 0:47
  Las
• 0:47
  Vegas.
• 0:48
  It's
• 0:48
  been
• 0:48
  a
• 0:48
  fantastic
• 0:49
  two
• 0:49
  days,
• 0:50
  had
• 0:50
  some
• 0:50
  really
• 0:50
  great
• 0:51
  content,
• 0:52
  con-
• 0:52
  conversations,
• 0:53
  uh,
• 0:54
  about
• 0:54
  a
• 0:54
  lot
• 0:55
  of
• 0:55
  different
• 0:55
  sub-
• 0:56
  topics,
• 0:56
  and
• 0:57
  this
• 0:57
  last
• 0:57
  conversation,
• 0:58
  it's
• 0:59
  gonna
• 0:59
  be
• 0:59
  a
• 0:59
  really
• 0:59
  good
• 0:59
  one.
• 1:00
  There's
• 1:00
  not
• 1:00
  very
• 1:00
  many
• 1:00
  guarantees
• 1:01
  in
• 1:01
  this
• 1:01
  industry.
• 1:02
  Probably
• 1:02
  none,
• 1:03
  I
• 1:03
  should
• 1:03
  say.
• 1:04
  This
• 1:04
  one,
• 1:05
  I
• 1:05
  guarantee,
• 1:05
  is
• 1:05
  gonna
• 1:06
  be
• 1:06
  a
• 1:06
  good
• 1:06
  conversation,
• 1:07
  so
• 1:07
  I'm,
• 1:08
  I'm
• 1:08
  really
• 1:08
  looking
• 1:08
  forward
• 1:09
  to
• 1:09
  it.
• 1:10
  So
• 1:11
  as
• 1:11
  we
• 1:11
  know,
• 1:12
  ETFs,
• 1:12
  they've
• 1:12
  been
• 1:14
  a
• 1:14
  lot
• 1:14
  of
• 1:14
  innovation
• 1:15
  in
• 1:15
  the
• 1:15
  ETF
• 1:16
  space,
• 1:17
  and
• 1:17
  growth
• 1:17
  of
• 1:18
  active
• 1:18
  ETFs,
• 1:19
  it's
• 1:19
  exploded.
• 1:20
  Last
• 1:20
  year,
• 1:20
  I
• 1:20
  don't
• 1:20
  know
• 1:20
  what
• 1:21
  the
• 1:21
  numbers
• 1:21
  are.
• 1:22
  I
• 1:22
  think
• 1:22
  I
• 1:22
  keep
• 1:22
  hearing
• 1:23
  different
• 1:23
  numbers
• 1:23
  of
• 1:24
  growth,
• 1:24
  and
• 1:24
  it's
• 1:25
  like,
• 1:25
  wow.
• 1:25
  It's
• 1:25
  like
• 1:26
  almost
• 1:26
  every
• 1:27
  day,
• 1:27
  a
• 1:27
  new
• 1:27
  ETF
• 1:28
  is
• 1:28
  born,
• 1:29
  it
• 1:29
  seems
• 1:29
  like.
• 1:30
  A
• 1:30
  lot
• 1:31
  of
• 1:31
  innovation
• 1:31
  in
• 1:32
  this
• 1:32
  space,
• 1:32
  too.
• 1:33
  And
• 1:33
  one
• 1:33
  of
• 1:33
  the
• 1:33
  hottest
• 1:34
  topics
• 1:35
  in
• 1:35
  investment
• 1:35
  management
• 1:36
  is
• 1:36
  the
• 1:36
  inclusion
• 1:37
  of
• 1:37
  derivatives
• 1:38
  in
• 1:38
  ETFs.
• 1:39
  That
• 1:39
  has
• 1:40
  also
• 1:40
  led
• 1:40
  to
• 1:40
  auto-callable
• 1:42
  ETFs.
• 1:43
  Well,
• 1:43
  I
• 1:44
  have
• 1:44
  the
• 1:45
  industry
• 1:45
  expert
• 1:46
  and
• 1:46
  a
• 1:46
  perfect
• 1:47
  guest
• 1:47
  to
• 1:47
  talk
• 1:48
  all
• 1:48
  things
• 1:48
  ETFs
• 1:49
  and
• 1:49
  all
• 1:49
  about
• 1:50
  auto-callables
• 1:51
  and
• 1:51
  what
• 1:51
  it
• 1:51
  means
• 1:52
  for
• 1:52
  financial
• 1:53
  advisors.
• 1:54
  But
• 1:54
  first,
• 1:54
  this
• 1:55
  episode
• 1:55
  is
• 1:55
  sponsored
• 1:56
  by
• 1:56
  the
• 1:56
  award-winning
• 1:56
  Zephyr,
• 1:57
  which
• 1:57
  helps
• 1:58
  investment
• 1:58
  professionals
• 1:59
  make
• 1:59
  more
• 2:00
  informed
• 2:00
  investment
• 2:01
  decisions
• 2:01
  on
• 2:01
  behalf
• 2:02
  of
• 2:02
  their
• 2:02
  clients.
• 2:03
  All
• 2:03
  right,
• 2:04
  enough
• 2:04
  from
• 2:04
  me.
• 2:04
  I
• 2:04
  have
• 2:05
  already
• 2:05
  talked
• 2:05
  enough.
• 2:07
  It's
• 2:07
  time
• 2:07
  to
• 2:07
  bring
• 2:07
  on
• 2:07
  the
• 2:07
  star
• 2:08
  of
• 2:08
  the
• 2:08
  show.
• 2:09
  I'd
• 2:10
  like
• 2:10
  to
• 2:10
  give
• 2:10
  a
• 2:10
  very
• 2:10
  warm
• 2:11
  welcome
• 2:11
  to
• 2:12
  Will
• 2:12
  Rhind.
• 2:13
  Will
• 2:14
  is
• 2:14
  the
• 2:14
  founder
• 2:14
  and
• 2:15
  CEO
• 2:15
  at
• 2:16
  Granite
• 2:16
  Shares.
• 2:17
  Will,
• 2:17
  thank
• 2:18
  you
• 2:18
  so
• 2:18
  much
• 2:18
  for
• 2:18
  coming
• 2:19
  on
• 2:19
  the
• 2:19
  podcast.
• 2:19
  Really,
• 2:20
  it's
• 2:20
  a
• 2:20
  pleasure
• 2:21
  to
• 2:21
  have
• 2:21
  you
• 2:21
  on.
• 2:21
  Really
• 2:22
  excited
• 2:22
  about
• 2:22
  this
• 2:22
  conversation.
• 2:23
  Auto-callables,
• 2:26
  heard
• 2:26
  a
• 2:26
  lot
• 2:26
  about
• 2:26
  them,
• 2:27
  lot
• 2:27
  of
• 2:27
  headlines.
• 2:28
  Really
• 2:28
  excited
• 2:28
  to
• 2:28
  hear
• 2:29
  more
• 2:29
  about
• 2:29
  them.
• 2:29
  But
• 2:30
  first,
• 2:30
  can
• 2:30
  you
• 2:30
  tell
• 2:30
  us
• 2:31
  a
• 2:31
  little
• 2:31
  bit
• 2:31
  more
• 2:31
  about
• 2:31
  yourself
• 2:32
  and
• 2:32
  Granite
• 2:32
  Shares?
• 2:33
  Yeah,
• 2:33
  well,
• 2:33
  first
• 2:34
  of
• 2:34
  all,
• 2:34
  thank
• 2:34
  you,
• 2:34
  Ryan,
• 2:35
  for
• 2:35
  hosting
• 2:36
  me,
• 2:36
  and
• 2:37
  for
• 2:37
  being
• 2:37
  at
• 2:37
  the
• 2:37
  conference.
• 2:38
  It's
• 2:38
  been
• 2:39
  a
• 2:39
  great,
• 2:39
  uh,
• 2:40
  event
• 2:41
  as
• 2:41
  always.
• 2:42
  But
• 2:42
  I'm
• 2:42
  Will
• 2:43
  Rhind,
• 2:43
  founder
• 2:43
  and
• 2:43
  CEO
• 2:44
  of
• 2:44
  Granite
• 2:44
  Shares.
• 2:45
  We're
• 2:45
  an
• 2:45
  ETF
• 2:46
  issuer
• 2:46
  based
• 2:47
  in
• 2:47
  New
• 2:47
  York.
• 2:49
  We're
• 2:49
  now
• 2:49
  a
• 2:49
  global
• 2:50
  company,
• 2:50
  so
• 2:51
  I
• 2:51
  founded
• 2:51
  the
• 2:51
  company
• 2:51
  10
• 2:52
  years
• 2:52
  ago.
• 2:53
  Seems
• 2:54
  funny
• 2:54
  to
• 2:54
  say
• 2:54
  that
• 2:55
  given
• 2:55
  that,
• 2:55
  um,
• 2:56
  those
• 2:56
  years
• 2:56
  have
• 2:56
  flown
• 2:57
  by,
• 2:57
  but
• 2:57
  we're
• 2:58
  about
• 2:58
  11
• 2:58
  billion-
• 3:00
  Assets
• 3:00
  under
• 3:00
  management,
• 3:01
  and
• 3:02
  we
• 3:02
  operate
• 3:03
  a
• 3:03
  number
• 3:04
  of
• 3:04
  different
• 3:04
  ETFs
• 3:05
  around
• 3:05
  the
• 3:05
  world,
• 3:06
  uh,
• 3:06
  ranging
• 3:07
  from,
• 3:08
  you
• 3:08
  know,
• 3:08
  commodities
• 3:09
  to
• 3:09
  leverage
• 3:10
  to
• 3:11
  options-based
• 3:12
  income
• 3:12
  strategies
• 3:13
  of
• 3:13
  which,
• 3:14
  you
• 3:14
  know,
• 3:14
  we'll
• 3:14
  be,
• 3:15
  uh,
• 3:15
  diving
• 3:15
  into
• 3:16
  more
• 3:16
  on
• 3:17
  this
• 3:17
  particular
• 3:17
  podcast.
• 3:18
  Yeah,
• 3:18
  I
• 3:19
  love
• 3:19
  it.
• 3:19
  I-
• 3:20
  10
• 3:20
  years,
• 3:20
  when
• 3:20
  you
• 3:20
  think
• 3:21
  about
• 3:21
  10
• 3:21
  years
• 3:22
  in
• 3:22
  the
• 3:22
  overall
• 3:23
  scheme
• 3:23
  of
• 3:23
  things
• 3:23
  is
• 3:23
  not
• 3:23
  very
• 3:24
  long,
• 3:24
  but
• 3:24
  10
• 3:24
  years
• 3:25
  is
• 3:25
  a
• 3:25
  lot
• 3:26
  in
• 3:26
  ETF
• 3:26
  space.
• 3:27
  You
• 3:27
  probably
• 3:28
  have
• 3:28
  seen
• 3:28
  a
• 3:28
  lot
• 3:29
  in
• 3:29
  just
• 3:29
  that
• 3:29
  short
• 3:30
  10
• 3:30
  years.
• 3:31
  I
• 3:31
  mean,
• 3:31
  it,
• 3:31
  it's
• 3:31
  a
• 3:31
  lot,
• 3:32
  and
• 3:33
  it
• 3:33
  never
• 3:34
  stops.
• 3:35
  You
• 3:35
  know,
• 3:35
  the,
• 3:35
  the,
• 3:37
  the
• 3:37
  job
• 3:37
  never,
• 3:38
  is
• 3:38
  never
• 3:38
  finished,
• 3:39
  and,
• 3:39
  you
• 3:39
  know,
• 3:39
  the
• 3:40
  market's
• 3:40
  constantly
• 3:41
  evolving
• 3:42
  both
• 3:42
  from
• 3:42
  the,
• 3:43
  the
• 3:43
  regulatory
• 3:44
  side,
• 3:44
  from
• 3:45
  the,
• 3:45
  uh,
• 3:46
  product
• 3:46
  innovation
• 3:47
  side,
• 3:48
  and,
• 3:48
  you
• 3:48
  know,
• 3:48
  even
• 3:49
  just
• 3:49
  funny
• 3:49
  thinking
• 3:50
  five
• 3:50
  years
• 3:51
  ago
• 3:51
  even,
• 3:52
  the
• 3:52
  kind
• 3:52
  of
• 3:52
  strategies
• 3:53
  that
• 3:53
  we'd
• 3:53
  be
• 3:53
  talking
• 3:54
  about
• 3:54
  today
• 3:55
  w-
• 3:55
  just
• 3:56
  would
• 3:56
  not
• 3:56
  be
• 3:56
  possible.
• 3:57
  Um-
• 3:57
  Yeah
• 3:58
  and
• 3:58
  that
• 3:58
  just
• 3:59
  goes
• 3:59
  to
• 3:59
  show,
• 3:59
  you
• 3:59
  know,
• 3:59
  how
• 4:00
  things
• 4:00
  move
• 4:00
  on
• 4:01
  and,
• 4:01
  you
• 4:01
  know,
• 4:01
  how
• 4:02
  just
• 4:02
  when
• 4:02
  people
• 4:03
  think
• 4:03
  that,
• 4:03
  you
• 4:03
  know,
• 4:04
  we,
• 4:05
  they
• 4:05
  go,
• 4:05
  "There
• 4:05
  can't
• 4:05
  be
• 4:05
  more
• 4:06
  innovation,
• 4:06
  surely."
• 4:07
  You
• 4:07
  know,
• 4:07
  we
• 4:07
  go
• 4:07
  on
• 4:07
  and
• 4:07
  do
• 4:08
  something
• 4:08
  else.
• 4:09
  Yeah.
• 4:09
  It's
• 4:09
  amazing,
• 4:10
  and
• 4:10
  I
• 4:10
  often
• 4:11
  talk,
• 4:11
  like,
• 4:11
  for
• 4:11
  financial
• 4:12
  advisors,
• 4:12
  how
• 4:13
  do
• 4:13
  you
• 4:13
  stay
• 4:13
  on
• 4:13
  top
• 4:14
  of
• 4:14
  all
• 4:14
  the
• 4:14
  innovation,
• 4:15
  all
• 4:15
  the
• 4:15
  new
• 4:15
  products?
• 4:16
  It's
• 4:16
  like
• 4:17
  they
• 4:17
  have
• 4:17
  to
• 4:17
  wear
• 4:17
  so
• 4:18
  many
• 4:18
  hats
• 4:18
  already
• 4:19
  and
• 4:19
  stay
• 4:19
  on
• 4:19
  top
• 4:19
  of
• 4:19
  it.
• 4:20
  But
• 4:20
  though
• 4:20
  also
• 4:20
  for
• 4:21
  providers
• 4:21
  and
• 4:22
  issuers
• 4:22
  like
• 4:22
  GraniteShares,
• 4:23
  like,
• 4:23
  how
• 4:24
  do
• 4:24
  you
• 4:24
  stay
• 4:24
  on
• 4:24
  top
• 4:24
  of
• 4:24
  the
• 4:24
  trends
• 4:25
  to
• 4:25
  know,
• 4:26
  like,
• 4:26
  all
• 4:27
  right,
• 4:27
  this
• 4:27
  is
• 4:27
  the
• 4:27
  next
• 4:28
  product
• 4:29
  or
• 4:29
  the
• 4:29
  next
• 4:30
  feature
• 4:30
  or
• 4:31
  innovation,
• 4:31
  we
• 4:32
  gotta
• 4:32
  stay
• 4:32
  on
• 4:32
  top?
• 4:33
  How
• 4:33
  do
• 4:33
  you
• 4:33
  stay
• 4:33
  on
• 4:33
  top
• 4:33
  of
• 4:34
  it,
• 4:34
  especially
• 4:34
  with
• 4:34
  technology?
• 4:36
  I
• 4:36
  mean,
• 4:36
  it's,
• 4:36
  um,
• 4:38
  really,
• 4:38
  I
• 4:38
  suppose
• 4:39
  the
• 4:39
  difference
• 4:39
  between
• 4:40
  success
• 4:40
  and
• 4:40
  failure
• 4:41
  ultimately
• 4:41
  for
• 4:42
  a
• 4:42
  company
• 4:42
  like
• 4:42
  us
• 4:43
  because
• 4:43
  first
• 4:43
  and
• 4:43
  foremost,
• 4:44
  we're
• 4:44
  a
• 4:44
  product
• 4:44
  company,
• 4:45
  so
• 4:46
  our
• 4:46
  job
• 4:47
  is
• 4:47
  inventing,
• 4:48
  and
• 4:48
  we're
• 4:48
  only
• 4:48
  as
• 4:48
  good
• 4:49
  as
• 4:49
  our
• 4:49
  last
• 4:50
  invention.
• 4:51
  And,
• 4:52
  you
• 4:52
  know,
• 4:52
  there's
• 4:52
  a
• 4:52
  combination
• 4:53
  of
• 4:54
  experience,
• 4:56
  um,
• 4:56
  being
• 4:57
  in
• 4:57
  the
• 4:57
  industry
• 4:57
  and
• 4:57
  markets
• 4:58
  for
• 4:58
  a
• 4:58
  long
• 4:58
  time
• 4:59
  and
• 4:59
  understanding
• 5:00
  trends.
• 5:01
  Uh,
• 5:01
  there's
• 5:01
  a,
• 5:02
  you
• 5:02
  know,
• 5:02
  regulatory
• 5:03
  aspect
• 5:04
  to
• 5:04
  it,
• 5:04
  understanding
• 5:05
  how
• 5:05
  regulations
• 5:05
  are
• 5:05
  changing
• 5:06
  and
• 5:06
  how
• 5:06
  they
• 5:07
  apply
• 5:07
  to
• 5:07
  potentially
• 5:08
  new
• 5:08
  strategies,
• 5:09
  and
• 5:09
  then
• 5:09
  there's
• 5:09
  just
• 5:09
  technology
• 5:10
  more
• 5:10
  broadly
• 5:11
  in
• 5:11
  terms
• 5:11
  of,
• 5:12
  you
• 5:12
  know,
• 5:12
  what
• 5:13
  we'll
• 5:13
  discuss
• 5:13
  today,
• 5:14
  which
• 5:14
  is
• 5:15
  how
• 5:15
  technology
• 5:16
  has
• 5:16
  enabled
• 5:17
  us
• 5:18
  to
• 5:18
  bring
• 5:18
  strategies
• 5:19
  to
• 5:19
  market
• 5:19
  that,
• 5:20
  you
• 5:20
  know,
• 5:20
  just
• 5:20
  previously
• 5:21
  weren't
• 5:21
  possible.
• 5:22
  Yeah.
• 5:22
  And
• 5:22
  the
• 5:22
  auto-callable
• 5:23
  is
• 5:23
  a,
• 5:23
  is
• 5:23
  a
• 5:23
  great
• 5:23
  example
• 5:24
  of
• 5:24
  that.
• 5:25
  Yeah.
• 5:25
  And
• 5:26
  before,
• 5:27
  you
• 5:27
  would
• 5:27
  know
• 5:27
  a
• 5:27
  lot
• 5:27
  better
• 5:28
  than
• 5:28
  I
• 5:28
  would,
• 5:28
  it
• 5:28
  would
• 5:28
  probably
• 5:29
  take
• 5:29
  months
• 5:30
  to
• 5:30
  bring
• 5:30
  a
• 5:30
  product
• 5:31
  to
• 5:31
  market,
• 5:31
  and
• 5:32
  now
• 5:32
  it's
• 5:32
  probably,
• 5:33
  you
• 5:33
  know,
• 5:33
  half
• 5:34
  that.
• 5:34
  It's
• 5:34
  probably
• 5:34
  a
• 5:34
  lot
• 5:35
  quicker
• 5:35
  because
• 5:35
  of
• 5:35
  technology
• 5:36
  and
• 5:37
  what
• 5:37
  technolo-
• 5:37
  it
• 5:38
  kinda
• 5:38
  makes
• 5:38
  it
• 5:38
  easier
• 5:39
  Yeah.
• 5:39
  I
• 5:40
  would
• 5:40
  say.
• 5:40
  And,
• 5:40
  and
• 5:40
  I
• 5:40
  think
• 5:40
  it's
• 5:40
  technology
• 5:41
  across
• 5:41
  the
• 5:41
  value
• 5:41
  chain.
• 5:42
  So
• 5:42
  it's
• 5:42
  not
• 5:42
  just
• 5:42
  about
• 5:43
  technology
• 5:44
  that
• 5:44
  we
• 5:44
  have.
• 5:45
  It's
• 5:45
  about
• 5:46
  technology
• 5:46
  that
• 5:47
  partners
• 5:47
  have
• 5:47
  that
• 5:48
  enable
• 5:50
  asset
• 5:50
  classes
• 5:50
  to
• 5:51
  be
• 5:51
  traded,
• 5:52
  um,
• 5:52
  to
• 5:52
  be
• 5:53
  wrapped,
• 5:53
  to
• 5:53
  be
• 5:54
  offered
• 5:54
  in
• 5:54
  ways
• 5:55
  that,
• 5:55
  you
• 5:55
  know,
• 5:56
  even
• 5:56
  just
• 5:56
  a
• 5:56
  few
• 5:56
  years
• 5:56
  ago
• 5:57
  weren't
• 5:57
  possible.
• 5:58
  Yeah.
• 5:58
  Yeah,
• 5:58
  it's
• 5:59
  fantastic.
• 5:59
  So
• 6:00
  let's
• 6:00
  talk
• 6:01
  about
• 6:01
  derivatives.
• 6:01
  It's
• 6:02
  one
• 6:02
  of
• 6:02
  the
• 6:02
  hotter
• 6:02
  trends
• 6:03
  in
• 6:03
  ETFs.
• 6:04
  Innovations
• 6:04
  is
• 6:05
  adding
• 6:05
  derivatives
• 6:06
  to
• 6:07
  ETFs
• 6:08
  to,
• 6:08
  you
• 6:08
  know,
• 6:09
  offer
• 6:09
  downside
• 6:10
  protection,
• 6:11
  risk
• 6:11
  mitigation.
• 6:12
  What
• 6:12
  was
• 6:12
  the
• 6:12
  primary
• 6:13
  drivers
• 6:13
  of
• 6:14
  adding
• 6:14
  derivatives
• 6:15
  to
• 6:15
  ETFs?
• 6:16
  Was
• 6:16
  there
• 6:16
  one,
• 6:16
  like,
• 6:17
  kind
• 6:17
  of
• 6:17
  a
• 6:17
  tipping
• 6:17
  point,
• 6:18
  or
• 6:18
  was
• 6:18
  like,
• 6:18
  "Let's
• 6:18
  go
• 6:19
  for
• 6:19
  it,"
• 6:19
  or
• 6:21
  There's
• 6:21
  one
• 6:21
  piece
• 6:22
  of
• 6:22
  regulation
• 6:23
  that
• 6:23
  came
• 6:24
  in
• 6:24
  after
• 6:24
  the
• 6:25
  so-called
• 6:26
  ETF
• 6:26
  rule,
• 6:27
  um,
• 6:27
  which
• 6:27
  is,
• 6:28
  you
• 6:28
  know,
• 6:29
  conveniently
• 6:29
  short-handedly
• 6:30
  named
• 6:31
  as
• 6:31
  the
• 6:31
  Derivative
• 6:31
  Rule.
• 6:32
  Um,
• 6:33
  but,
• 6:33
  uh-
• 6:33
  I,
• 6:34
  I
• 6:34
  think
• 6:34
  I
• 6:34
  can
• 6:34
  remember
• 6:35
  that
• 6:35
  one
• 6:35
  now
• 6:35
  yeah.
• 6:36
  That
• 6:37
  one,
• 6:37
  that
• 6:37
  one.
• 6:37
  My
• 6:37
  memory's
• 6:37
  not
• 6:38
  the
• 6:38
  best.
• 6:38
  That
• 6:38
  one
• 6:38
  I
• 6:39
  can
• 6:39
  remember,
• 6:39
  I
• 6:39
  think.
• 6:40
  It,
• 6:40
  it's
• 6:40
  called,
• 6:40
  it's
• 6:41
  called
• 6:41
  18f-4.
• 6:41
  Um,
• 6:42
  but-
• 6:42
  I
• 6:42
  like
• 6:42
  Derivative
• 6:43
  Rule
• 6:43
  better.
• 6:44
  Exactly.
• 6:44
  Derivate-
• 6:45
  the
• 6:45
  Derivative
• 6:46
  Rule
• 6:46
  shorthand,
• 6:47
  um,
• 6:48
  really
• 6:48
  just
• 6:49
  allowed
• 6:49
  for
• 6:51
  the
• 6:51
  wide,
• 6:52
  you
• 6:52
  know,
• 6:52
  scale
• 6:53
  use
• 6:53
  of
• 6:53
  derivatives
• 6:54
  in
• 6:54
  funds,
• 6:54
  and
• 6:54
  clarified,
• 6:55
  I
• 6:55
  think,
• 6:55
  a
• 6:55
  lot
• 6:56
  of
• 6:56
  positioning
• 6:56
  around
• 6:57
  the
• 6:57
  use
• 6:57
  of
• 6:57
  derivative
• 6:58
  in
• 6:58
  funds.
• 6:58
  And,
• 6:59
  you
• 6:59
  know,
• 7:00
  sometimes
• 7:00
  for
• 7:00
  those
• 7:01
  of
• 7:01
  people
• 7:01
  that
• 7:01
  aren't
• 7:01
  necessarily
• 7:02
  that
• 7:02
  familiar
• 7:03
  with
• 7:03
  derivatives
• 7:04
  or
• 7:04
  don't
• 7:04
  use
• 7:04
  them,
• 7:05
  you
• 7:05
  know,
• 7:06
  specifically
• 7:07
  on
• 7:07
  their
• 7:08
  own
• 7:08
  as
• 7:08
  individual
• 7:08
  strategies,
• 7:09
  I
• 7:09
  think
• 7:09
  just
• 7:10
  taking
• 7:10
  a
• 7:10
  step
• 7:10
  back,
• 7:11
  what
• 7:11
  this
• 7:12
  broadly
• 7:13
  is
• 7:13
  all
• 7:13
  about
• 7:14
  is
• 7:14
  taking
• 7:15
  strategies
• 7:15
  that
• 7:16
  previously
• 7:16
  were
• 7:17
  only
• 7:17
  open
• 7:18
  to
• 7:19
  ultra-high
• 7:20
  net
• 7:20
  worth
• 7:21
  investors,
• 7:22
  hedge
• 7:23
  funds,
• 7:23
  et
• 7:23
  cetera,
• 7:24
  and
• 7:24
  then
• 7:25
  wrapping
• 7:25
  those
• 7:25
  in
• 7:26
  the
• 7:26
  ETF
• 7:27
  and
• 7:27
  having
• 7:27
  them
• 7:27
  distributed
• 7:28
  to
• 7:28
  the
• 7:28
  mass
• 7:29
  market.
• 7:30
  And
• 7:30
  that's
• 7:30
  kind
• 7:30
  of
• 7:31
  the
• 7:31
  essence
• 7:32
  of
• 7:32
  what
• 7:33
  the
• 7:33
  majority
• 7:33
  of
• 7:33
  these
• 7:33
  strategies
• 7:34
  are
• 7:34
  about.
• 7:35
  I'm
• 7:35
  a
• 7:35
  big
• 7:36
  fan
• 7:36
  of
• 7:36
  democratization.
• 7:38
  I
• 7:38
  think
• 7:38
  it's
• 7:38
  very
• 7:39
  important.
• 7:39
  Like
• 7:39
  you
• 7:39
  said,
• 7:40
  a
• 7:40
  lot
• 7:40
  of
• 7:40
  these
• 7:40
  products
• 7:41
  were
• 7:41
  earmarked
• 7:41
  for
• 7:42
  institutions,
• 7:43
  ultra-high
• 7:44
  net
• 7:44
  worth,
• 7:45
  about
• 7:45
  1%.
• 7:46
  Now,
• 7:47
  with
• 7:47
  ETFs
• 7:48
  and
• 7:48
  innovation
• 7:49
  that
• 7:49
  you've
• 7:49
  talked
• 7:49
  about,
• 7:49
  now
• 7:50
  all
• 7:50
  of
• 7:50
  a
• 7:50
  sudden
• 7:50
  those
• 7:50
  retail
• 7:51
  investors
• 7:51
  or
• 7:51
  private
• 7:52
  wealth
• 7:52
  get
• 7:52
  access
• 7:52
  to
• 7:53
  it.
• 7:53
  Now,
• 7:53
  some
• 7:54
  people
• 7:54
  may
• 7:54
  say
• 7:55
  that
• 7:55
  brings
• 7:55
  some
• 7:55
  issues,
• 7:57
  uh,
• 7:57
  involved,
• 7:58
  like
• 7:58
  understanding
• 7:59
  and
• 7:59
  exactly
• 8:00
  what
• 8:00
  is
• 8:00
  a
• 8:00
  auto-callable
• 8:02
  and,
• 8:02
  you
• 8:02
  know,
• 8:03
  the
• 8:03
  education
• 8:03
  part
• 8:04
  of
• 8:04
  it.
• 8:04
  But
• 8:05
  why
• 8:06
  are
• 8:06
  auto-ca-
• 8:07
  uh,
• 8:07
  auto-callables
• 8:08
  in
• 8:08
  an
• 8:08
  ETF
• 8:09
  structure?
• 8:10
  You
• 8:10
  know,
• 8:10
  what
• 8:10
  is
• 8:11
  it
• 8:11
  and
• 8:11
  how
• 8:11
  does
• 8:11
  it
• 8:12
  work,
• 8:12
  you
• 8:12
  know?
• 8:12
  So
• 8:13
  for
• 8:13
  those
• 8:14
  financial
• 8:14
  advisors,
• 8:15
  we've
• 8:15
  heard
• 8:15
  a
• 8:15
  lot
• 8:15
  about
• 8:16
  it,
• 8:17
  you
• 8:17
  know.
• 8:18
  What,
• 8:18
  what
• 8:18
  do
• 8:18
  they
• 8:18
  need
• 8:19
  to
• 8:19
  know?
• 8:20
  So
• 8:20
  the
• 8:21
  word
• 8:21
  comes
• 8:21
  from
• 8:22
  the
• 8:22
  strategy
• 8:23
  which
• 8:24
  has
• 8:24
  been
• 8:25
  the,
• 8:26
  if
• 8:26
  not
• 8:26
  the
• 8:26
  biggest,
• 8:27
  certainly
• 8:27
  one
• 8:27
  of
• 8:27
  the
• 8:28
  biggest
• 8:29
  selling
• 8:29
  strategies
• 8:30
  in
• 8:30
  the
• 8:31
  structured
• 8:31
  note
• 8:32
  or
• 8:32
  structured
• 8:32
  product
• 8:33
  world.
• 8:34
  And
• 8:34
  these
• 8:35
  are
• 8:35
  products
• 8:35
  that
• 8:35
  are
• 8:35
  created
• 8:36
  by
• 8:36
  banks
• 8:37
  primarily
• 8:38
  and
• 8:38
  sold
• 8:39
  to
• 8:40
  ultra-high
• 8:40
  net
• 8:40
  worth
• 8:41
  clients
• 8:41
  or
• 8:41
  financial
• 8:42
  advisors.
• 8:43
  And
• 8:44
  the
• 8:44
  idea
• 8:45
  is
• 8:46
  that
• 8:46
  you
• 8:47
  give
• 8:47
  a
• 8:47
  high
• 8:48
  level
• 8:48
  of
• 8:48
  yield,
• 8:49
  which
• 8:50
  comes
• 8:50
  from
• 8:50
  an
• 8:50
  option
• 8:51
  strategy,
• 8:52
  uh,
• 8:53
  with
• 8:53
  downside
• 8:53
  protection.
• 8:54
  But
• 8:54
  define
• 8:55
  downside
• 8:55
  protection.
• 8:56
  So-
• 8:57
  You
• 8:57
  can
• 8:58
  get
• 8:59
  a
• 8:59
  level
• 9:00
  of
• 9:00
  yield,
• 9:00
  which
• 9:01
  is
• 9:01
  very
• 9:01
  attractive
• 9:02
  to
• 9:02
  the
• 9:02
  investor,
• 9:03
  plus
• 9:04
  a
• 9:04
  level
• 9:04
  of
• 9:04
  downside
• 9:05
  protection
• 9:05
  that's
• 9:05
  knowable.
• 9:06
  So
• 9:06
  in
• 9:06
  other
• 9:06
  words,
• 9:08
  we
• 9:08
  offer,
• 9:09
  uh,
• 9:10
  autocallables
• 9:10
  in
• 9:10
  single
• 9:11
  companies,
• 9:12
  um,
• 9:13
  like
• 9:13
  some
• 9:13
  Tesla,
• 9:13
  Nvidia.
• 9:14
  So
• 9:15
  the
• 9:15
  quick
• 9:16
  proposition
• 9:16
  to
• 9:16
  the
• 9:16
  investor
• 9:17
  would
• 9:17
  be
• 9:18
  a
• 9:18
  high
• 9:18
  level
• 9:18
  of
• 9:18
  yield.
• 9:19
  So
• 9:20
  let's
• 9:20
  for
• 9:21
  argument's
• 9:21
  sake
• 9:21
  say
• 9:22
  around
• 9:22
  twenty
• 9:22
  percent
• 9:22
  per
• 9:23
  annum,
• 9:23
  but
• 9:24
  with
• 9:24
  a
• 9:25
  defined
• 9:25
  level
• 9:25
  of
• 9:26
  downside
• 9:26
  protection.
• 9:27
  So
• 9:27
  if
• 9:27
  the
• 9:27
  price
• 9:28
  of
• 9:28
  Tesla
• 9:29
  falls
• 9:29
  by
• 9:30
  more
• 9:30
  than
• 9:31
  thirty,
• 9:31
  forty,
• 9:32
  fifty
• 9:32
  percent
• 9:33
  within
• 9:34
  this
• 9:34
  particular
• 9:34
  time,
• 9:35
  you
• 9:35
  still
• 9:36
  get
• 9:36
  your
• 9:37
  yield,
• 9:38
  which
• 9:38
  people
• 9:38
  are
• 9:39
  looking
• 9:39
  for.
• 9:40
  Mm.
• 9:40
  So
• 9:40
  I
• 9:40
  think
• 9:40
  it's
• 9:40
  the
• 9:40
  combination
• 9:41
  of
• 9:42
  level
• 9:42
  of
• 9:42
  income,
• 9:43
  which
• 9:44
  is
• 9:44
  very
• 9:44
  importantly
• 9:45
  for
• 9:45
  everybody
• 9:46
  who's
• 9:46
  seeking
• 9:46
  income,
• 9:47
  plus
• 9:48
  understanding
• 9:49
  where
• 9:49
  the
• 9:49
  downside
• 9:50
  is
• 9:50
  or
• 9:50
  what
• 9:50
  the
• 9:51
  downside
• 9:51
  is.
• 9:52
  Yeah.
• 9:52
  That's
• 9:53
  fantastic.
• 9:53
  Great
• 9:54
  explanation
• 9:54
  there.
• 9:55
  And
• 9:56
  I
• 9:56
  talk
• 9:56
  a
• 9:56
  lot
• 9:57
  about
• 9:57
  risk,
• 9:58
  like
• 9:58
  understanding
• 9:59
  what
• 9:59
  is
• 9:59
  the
• 10:00
  primary
• 10:01
  risk
• 10:01
  of
• 10:01
  investing.
• 10:02
  Years
• 10:02
  ago,
• 10:03
  aging
• 10:04
  myself,
• 10:05
  twenty
• 10:05
  years
• 10:06
  ago
• 10:06
  when
• 10:06
  I
• 10:06
  started,
• 10:08
  it
• 10:08
  was
• 10:08
  all
• 10:08
  about
• 10:08
  standard
• 10:09
  deviation
• 10:09
  volatility.
• 10:10
  Now,
• 10:11
  like
• 10:11
  at
• 10:11
  Zephyr,
• 10:12
  we're
• 10:12
  focusing
• 10:12
  more
• 10:13
  on
• 10:14
  post-MPT
• 10:15
  stats,
• 10:15
  drawdown
• 10:16
  statistics,
• 10:17
  you
• 10:17
  know.
• 10:18
  That
• 10:18
  to
• 10:18
  me
• 10:18
  is
• 10:19
  the
• 10:19
  real
• 10:19
  risk
• 10:20
  of
• 10:20
  investing,
• 10:20
  losing
• 10:21
  my
• 10:21
  money,
• 10:22
  right?
• 10:22
  Give
• 10:22
  me
• 10:22
  all
• 10:22
  the
• 10:22
  upside
• 10:23
  you
• 10:23
  want,
• 10:24
  I
• 10:24
  just
• 10:24
  don't
• 10:24
  wanna
• 10:24
  lose
• 10:25
  my
• 10:26
  money,
• 10:26
  and
• 10:27
  that's
• 10:28
  where
• 10:28
  autocallables
• 10:29
  protection
• 10:30
  on
• 10:30
  the
• 10:30
  bottom
• 10:31
  is
• 10:31
  so
• 10:31
  important
• 10:32
  I
• 10:32
  think,
• 10:32
  and
• 10:33
  it
• 10:33
  helps
• 10:33
  people
• 10:33
  sleep
• 10:34
  at
• 10:34
  night.
• 10:35
  Yeah.
• 10:35
  I
• 10:35
  think
• 10:35
  that's
• 10:35
  right.
• 10:36
  It's
• 10:36
  the,
• 10:36
  the
• 10:37
  return
• 10:37
  of
• 10:37
  your
• 10:37
  capital
• 10:38
  being
• 10:38
  more
• 10:38
  important
• 10:39
  than
• 10:39
  the
• 10:39
  return
• 10:39
  on
• 10:40
  your
• 10:40
  capital,
• 10:41
  and
• 10:41
  this
• 10:41
  idea
• 10:42
  that,
• 10:42
  you
• 10:42
  know,
• 10:42
  as...
• 10:43
  You
• 10:43
  know,
• 10:43
  we're,
• 10:43
  we're
• 10:43
  obviously
• 10:44
  at
• 10:44
  a
• 10:44
  particularly
• 10:45
  interesting
• 10:45
  time
• 10:46
  at
• 10:46
  the
• 10:46
  moment
• 10:46
  with
• 10:46
  the
• 10:46
  war
• 10:47
  in
• 10:47
  the
• 10:47
  Middle
• 10:48
  East,
• 10:48
  but
• 10:49
  still,
• 10:49
  we
• 10:50
  are
• 10:50
  hovering
• 10:50
  around
• 10:52
  all-time
• 10:52
  highs
• 10:52
  in
• 10:52
  markets.
• 10:54
  And
• 10:55
  again,
• 10:55
  at
• 10:55
  this
• 10:55
  particular
• 10:55
  juncture,
• 10:57
  you
• 10:57
  get
• 10:58
  investors
• 10:58
  much
• 10:58
  more
• 10:58
  interested
• 10:59
  in
• 10:59
  saying,
• 11:00
  "Okay.
• 11:00
  Well,
• 11:02
  I'm
• 11:02
  not
• 11:02
  necessarily
• 11:03
  concerned
• 11:03
  about
• 11:03
  the
• 11:03
  market
• 11:05
  going
• 11:05
  up
• 11:06
  too
• 11:06
  much
• 11:07
  from
• 11:07
  here,
• 11:07
  but
• 11:07
  I'm
• 11:07
  more
• 11:07
  concerned
• 11:08
  about
• 11:09
  what
• 11:09
  happens
• 11:09
  if
• 11:09
  it
• 11:09
  pulls
• 11:10
  back-
• 11:10
  Yeah
• 11:11
  and
• 11:11
  is
• 11:11
  there
• 11:11
  anything
• 11:12
  that
• 11:12
  still
• 11:12
  gives
• 11:12
  me
• 11:12
  yield,
• 11:14
  but
• 11:14
  yet
• 11:15
  there's
• 11:15
  some
• 11:15
  downside
• 11:15
  protection,"
• 11:16
  and
• 11:16
  that's
• 11:16
  where
• 11:16
  the
• 11:16
  autocallable
• 11:17
  comes
• 11:17
  in.
• 11:18
  Yeah.
• 11:18
  I
• 11:18
  think
• 11:18
  it's
• 11:18
  fanta-
• 11:19
  We've
• 11:19
  had
• 11:19
  this
• 11:19
  great
• 11:20
  run-up,
• 11:20
  let's
• 11:20
  try
• 11:20
  and
• 11:20
  preserve
• 11:21
  some
• 11:21
  of
• 11:21
  these
• 11:22
  gains
• 11:22
  that
• 11:22
  we've
• 11:22
  had.
• 11:23
  Without...
• 11:23
  You
• 11:24
  know,
• 11:24
  a
• 11:24
  lot
• 11:24
  of
• 11:25
  times
• 11:25
  it
• 11:25
  used
• 11:25
  to
• 11:25
  be,
• 11:26
  well,
• 11:26
  if
• 11:26
  we're
• 11:26
  gonna
• 11:26
  preserve
• 11:27
  the
• 11:27
  gains,
• 11:28
  we
• 11:28
  gotta
• 11:28
  take
• 11:28
  it
• 11:28
  off
• 11:29
  the
• 11:29
  table,
• 11:29
  we
• 11:29
  gotta
• 11:29
  sell
• 11:30
  something
• 11:30
  and
• 11:30
  stash
• 11:31
  those
• 11:31
  gains
• 11:31
  away.
• 11:32
  But
• 11:32
  now
• 11:33
  with
• 11:33
  new
• 11:33
  products
• 11:34
  like
• 11:34
  autocallables
• 11:35
  and
• 11:35
  the
• 11:35
  ETF
• 11:36
  wrapper,
• 11:37
  you
• 11:37
  don't
• 11:37
  have
• 11:38
  to
• 11:38
  sell
• 11:38
  something,
• 11:39
  right?
• 11:39
  You
• 11:39
  can
• 11:39
  still
• 11:40
  have
• 11:40
  that
• 11:40
  protection.
• 11:41
  You
• 11:42
  take
• 11:42
  a
• 11:42
  single
• 11:42
  stock,
• 11:43
  for
• 11:43
  example,
• 11:44
  and
• 11:44
  now
• 11:44
  you
• 11:45
  have
• 11:45
  all
• 11:45
  these
• 11:45
  different
• 11:45
  permutations
• 11:47
  of
• 11:48
  an
• 11:48
  expression
• 11:48
  of
• 11:48
  an
• 11:48
  investment
• 11:49
  idea
• 11:49
  with
• 11:50
  that
• 11:50
  single
• 11:50
  stock.
• 11:50
  So
• 11:50
  you
• 11:51
  can
• 11:51
  have
• 11:51
  leverage
• 11:51
  on
• 11:51
  that
• 11:52
  single
• 11:52
  stock.
• 11:52
  You
• 11:52
  can
• 11:53
  have
• 11:53
  a
• 11:53
  short
• 11:54
  on
• 11:54
  that
• 11:54
  single
• 11:55
  stock.
• 11:55
  You
• 11:55
  can
• 11:55
  have
• 11:56
  a
• 11:56
  yield-
• 11:57
  Whether
• 11:57
  it's
• 11:57
  through
• 11:57
  covered
• 11:58
  call
• 11:58
  type
• 11:59
  strategies,
• 11:59
  or
• 12:00
  you
• 12:00
  can
• 12:00
  have
• 12:00
  a
• 12:00
  yield
• 12:01
  with
• 12:01
  downside
• 12:01
  protection
• 12:02
  through
• 12:02
  auto
• 12:02
  callables.
• 12:04
  So
• 12:04
  you
• 12:04
  still
• 12:04
  are
• 12:04
  participating
• 12:05
  in
• 12:05
  the
• 12:05
  name
• 12:06
  that
• 12:06
  you
• 12:06
  love,
• 12:07
  but
• 12:07
  doing
• 12:08
  it
• 12:08
  in
• 12:08
  a
• 12:08
  way
• 12:08
  that
• 12:08
  benefits
• 12:10
  your
• 12:10
  investment
• 12:10
  objective,
• 12:11
  be
• 12:11
  it
• 12:11
  yield,
• 12:12
  be
• 12:12
  it,
• 12:13
  you
• 12:13
  know-
• 12:13
  Yeah
• 12:13
  upside
• 12:14
  or
• 12:14
  downside.
• 12:15
  Um,
• 12:15
  and
• 12:16
  I
• 12:16
  think
• 12:16
  that's
• 12:16
  again,
• 12:16
  a
• 12:17
  good
• 12:17
  example
• 12:17
  of
• 12:17
  how
• 12:17
  the
• 12:17
  market's
• 12:18
  evolved.
• 12:19
  Yep.
• 12:19
  I
• 12:19
  think
• 12:19
  that's
• 12:19
  fantastic.
• 12:20
  So
• 12:22
  kind
• 12:22
  of
• 12:22
  the
• 12:22
  elephant
• 12:23
  in
• 12:23
  the
• 12:23
  room
• 12:23
  here
• 12:24
  is
• 12:24
  liquidity
• 12:25
  with
• 12:25
  all
• 12:25
  the
• 12:25
  issues
• 12:26
  with
• 12:26
  private
• 12:26
  credit,
• 12:27
  and
• 12:28
  which
• 12:28
  I
• 12:28
  don't...
• 12:29
  If
• 12:29
  that's
• 12:29
  a
• 12:29
  whole
• 12:29
  'nother
• 12:30
  podcast.
• 12:31
  Yeah.
• 12:31
  We'll,
• 12:31
  uh,
• 12:31
  we'll
• 12:31
  talk
• 12:32
  about
• 12:32
  private
• 12:32
  credit,
• 12:33
  but
• 12:33
  liquidity.
• 12:34
  They
• 12:34
  need
• 12:34
  re-
• 12:35
  liquidity,
• 12:35
  and
• 12:35
  I
• 12:36
  think
• 12:36
  we've
• 12:36
  found
• 12:36
  that
• 12:37
  out
• 12:37
  how
• 12:37
  important
• 12:37
  liquidity
• 12:38
  is
• 12:38
  to
• 12:39
  them.
• 12:40
  So
• 12:40
  auto
• 12:40
  callables,
• 12:41
  are
• 12:41
  they
• 12:42
  a
• 12:42
  liquid
• 12:43
  or
• 12:43
  more
• 12:43
  illiquid
• 12:44
  pri-
• 12:45
  Is
• 12:45
  that
• 12:45
  something
• 12:45
  that
• 12:46
  investors
• 12:46
  or
• 12:46
  financial
• 12:47
  advisors
• 12:47
  really
• 12:48
  need
• 12:48
  to
• 12:48
  consider
• 12:49
  when
• 12:49
  recommending
• 12:50
  them?
• 12:51
  Great
• 12:51
  question.
• 12:52
  And
• 12:52
  again,
• 12:53
  I
• 12:53
  think
• 12:53
  this
• 12:53
  is
• 12:54
  one
• 12:54
  of
• 12:54
  the,
• 12:55
  the
• 12:55
  key,
• 12:56
  key
• 12:56
  selling
• 12:56
  points
• 12:57
  of
• 12:58
  the
• 12:58
  ETF
• 12:58
  wrapper,
• 12:59
  which
• 13:00
  is
• 13:00
  that,
• 13:01
  you
• 13:01
  know,
• 13:01
  with
• 13:02
  structured
• 13:02
  notes,
• 13:03
  typically
• 13:05
  that's
• 13:05
  a
• 13:05
  one-sided
• 13:05
  market.
• 13:06
  So
• 13:06
  people
• 13:06
  would
• 13:07
  buy
• 13:07
  a
• 13:07
  structured
• 13:07
  product
• 13:08
  from
• 13:08
  a
• 13:08
  bank,
• 13:09
  and
• 13:09
  the
• 13:09
  idea
• 13:10
  was
• 13:10
  you
• 13:10
  hold
• 13:11
  it
• 13:11
  or
• 13:11
  held
• 13:12
  it
• 13:12
  to
• 13:12
  maturity.
• 13:13
  That
• 13:13
  maturity
• 13:13
  date
• 13:13
  could
• 13:13
  be
• 13:13
  three
• 13:14
  years,
• 13:15
  could
• 13:15
  be
• 13:15
  longer,
• 13:15
  could
• 13:15
  be
• 13:15
  shorter.
• 13:17
  But
• 13:17
  the
• 13:17
  point
• 13:17
  is
• 13:17
  there's
• 13:17
  no,
• 13:18
  no
• 13:18
  real
• 13:18
  secondary
• 13:19
  market
• 13:19
  for
• 13:19
  that.
• 13:20
  You
• 13:20
  wanted-
• 13:20
  Mm-hmm
• 13:20
  to
• 13:20
  sell
• 13:20
  it
• 13:20
  back,
• 13:21
  um,
• 13:22
  there
• 13:22
  wasn't
• 13:22
  really
• 13:23
  a
• 13:23
  market.
• 13:24
  There's
• 13:24
  not
• 13:24
  really
• 13:24
  a
• 13:24
  market
• 13:24
  for
• 13:25
  that
• 13:25
  actual
• 13:26
  note.
• 13:26
  Mm.
• 13:26
  So
• 13:27
  you've
• 13:27
  got
• 13:27
  a
• 13:27
  package
• 13:28
  of
• 13:28
  options
• 13:29
  within
• 13:29
  the
• 13:29
  fund,
• 13:30
  and
• 13:31
  you
• 13:31
  have
• 13:31
  different
• 13:32
  auto
• 13:32
  callable
• 13:32
  options.
• 13:33
  So
• 13:33
  the
• 13:34
  fund
• 13:34
  itself
• 13:35
  holds
• 13:35
  a
• 13:35
  portfolio
• 13:36
  of
• 13:36
  options,
• 13:38
  and
• 13:38
  you
• 13:38
  have
• 13:38
  two
• 13:38
  levels
• 13:39
  of
• 13:39
  liquidity.
• 13:39
  You
• 13:40
  have
• 13:40
  the
• 13:40
  level
• 13:41
  of
• 13:41
  liquidity
• 13:41
  from
• 13:41
  being
• 13:42
  able
• 13:42
  to
• 13:42
  sell
• 13:42
  the
• 13:42
  option
• 13:43
  if
• 13:44
  the
• 13:44
  underlying
• 13:45
  was
• 13:45
  to
• 13:45
  be
• 13:45
  called,
• 13:46
  and
• 13:46
  then
• 13:46
  you
• 13:46
  have
• 13:47
  the
• 13:47
  ETF
• 13:48
  wrapper
• 13:48
  liquidity,
• 13:49
  where
• 13:50
  ETF's
• 13:50
  listed
• 13:50
  on
• 13:50
  exchange,
• 13:51
  there's
• 13:51
  a
• 13:51
  market
• 13:52
  maker
• 13:52
  quoting
• 13:52
  prices.
• 13:54
  And
• 13:54
  so
• 13:55
  with
• 13:55
  those
• 13:55
  two
• 13:55
  levels,
• 13:56
  you
• 13:56
  have
• 13:58
  a
• 13:58
  depth
• 13:59
  and
• 13:59
  a
• 13:59
  level
• 14:00
  of
• 14:00
  offering
• 14:00
  that
• 14:00
  you
• 14:00
  just
• 14:01
  don't
• 14:01
  have
• 14:01
  with
• 14:02
  the
• 14:02
  traditional
• 14:02
  structured
• 14:02
  product
• 14:03
  world.
• 14:03
  And
• 14:03
  I
• 14:03
  think
• 14:04
  you've
• 14:04
  seen
• 14:04
  that
• 14:05
  with
• 14:05
  other
• 14:06
  types
• 14:06
  of,
• 14:07
  you
• 14:07
  know,
• 14:07
  formally
• 14:08
  structured
• 14:09
  product
• 14:09
  type
• 14:10
  payoffs
• 14:10
  with
• 14:10
  the
• 14:10
  buffered
• 14:11
  funds
• 14:11
  and
• 14:11
  other
• 14:12
  varieties,
• 14:12
  whereby
• 14:13
  putting
• 14:13
  them
• 14:13
  in
• 14:13
  the
• 14:13
  ETF
• 14:15
  gives
• 14:15
  you
• 14:15
  that
• 14:15
  liquidity
• 14:16
  which
• 14:16
  you
• 14:16
  just,
• 14:17
  you
• 14:17
  just
• 14:17
  don't
• 14:17
  have-
• 14:18
  Mm
• 14:19
  traditionally.
• 14:20
  And
• 14:20
  like
• 14:20
  you
• 14:20
  said,
• 14:21
  we've
• 14:21
  realized
• 14:21
  how
• 14:21
  important
• 14:22
  that
• 14:22
  is,
• 14:23
  especially-
• 14:23
  Oh,
• 14:23
  yeah
• 14:23
  when
• 14:24
  now
• 14:24
  we're
• 14:25
  seeing
• 14:25
  a
• 14:25
  c-
• 14:25
  after
• 14:26
  three
• 14:27
  years
• 14:27
  of
• 14:27
  great
• 14:27
  markets,
• 14:28
  now
• 14:28
  we're
• 14:28
  seeing
• 14:30
  some
• 14:30
  distress
• 14:31
  out
• 14:31
  there,
• 14:31
  and
• 14:32
  the
• 14:32
  behavior
• 14:33
  of
• 14:33
  retail
• 14:34
  investors
• 14:34
  and
• 14:35
  what
• 14:35
  they
• 14:35
  want.
• 14:35
  They
• 14:35
  demand
• 14:36
  liquidity.
• 14:37
  S-
• 14:38
  And
• 14:38
  that
• 14:38
  ETF
• 14:38
  wrapper,
• 14:39
  the
• 14:39
  combination
• 14:39
  works
• 14:40
  well,
• 14:40
  and
• 14:41
  it
• 14:41
  provides
• 14:41
  them
• 14:42
  a
• 14:42
  strategy
• 14:43
  that,
• 14:43
  uh,
• 14:44
  is
• 14:44
  j-
• 14:44
  normally
• 14:44
  earmarked
• 14:45
  for
• 14:46
  institutions.
• 14:47
  Yeah,
• 14:47
  that's
• 14:47
  right.
• 14:47
  So.
• 14:48
  And
• 14:48
  so
• 14:48
  it's
• 14:48
  a
• 14:48
  big,
• 14:49
  big
• 14:49
  benefit
• 14:50
  of
• 14:50
  the
• 14:50
  ETF
• 14:50
  more
• 14:51
  broadly.
• 14:52
  Yeah.
• 14:52
  So
• 14:53
  let's
• 14:53
  finish
• 14:54
  back
• 14:54
  to
• 14:54
  the
• 14:54
  financial
• 14:55
  advisor.
• 14:56
  Great
• 14:56
  product.
• 14:58
  How,
• 14:58
  how...
• 14:58
  Just
• 14:59
  now
• 14:59
  the
• 14:59
  how.
• 15:00
  Like,
• 15:00
  they're
• 15:00
  building
• 15:01
  a
• 15:01
  portfolio,
• 15:02
  like,
• 15:02
  what's
• 15:02
  the
• 15:02
  type
• 15:03
  of
• 15:03
  allocation?
• 15:03
  Is
• 15:04
  it,
• 15:05
  you
• 15:05
  know,
• 15:05
  do
• 15:05
  they
• 15:05
  take
• 15:06
  it
• 15:06
  out
• 15:06
  of
• 15:06
  fixed
• 15:07
  income
• 15:07
  sleeve,
• 15:08
  or
• 15:08
  is
• 15:08
  it
• 15:08
  more
• 15:09
  of
• 15:09
  an
• 15:09
  alternative
• 15:10
  sleeve?
• 15:10
  Like,
• 15:11
  in
• 15:11
  terms
• 15:11
  of
• 15:12
  the
• 15:12
  construct
• 15:12
  of
• 15:13
  portfolio
• 15:13
  construction,
• 15:14
  where,
• 15:15
  where
• 15:15
  does
• 15:15
  it
• 15:15
  fit
• 15:15
  in,
• 15:15
  auto
• 15:16
  callables?
• 15:17
  I,
• 15:17
  I
• 15:17
  think
• 15:17
  it
• 15:18
  will
• 15:19
  depend
• 15:19
  on
• 15:20
  the
• 15:20
  advisor,
• 15:20
  of
• 15:21
  course,
• 15:21
  because
• 15:23
  auto
• 15:24
  callables
• 15:24
  are
• 15:24
  not
• 15:25
  something
• 15:25
  new.
• 15:26
  What's
• 15:27
  new
• 15:27
  is
• 15:27
  they're
• 15:28
  being
• 15:28
  put
• 15:28
  into
• 15:28
  an
• 15:28
  ETF
• 15:29
  wrapper.
• 15:30
  So
• 15:31
  advisors
• 15:31
  that
• 15:31
  run
• 15:32
  their
• 15:32
  business
• 15:33
  and
• 15:33
  use
• 15:33
  auto
• 15:34
  callables
• 15:35
  will
• 15:35
  either
• 15:36
  be
• 15:37
  using
• 15:37
  it
• 15:37
  as
• 15:38
  a
• 15:38
  fixed
• 15:38
  income
• 15:39
  alternative,
• 15:40
  using
• 15:40
  it
• 15:41
  as
• 15:41
  an
• 15:41
  equity
• 15:42
  income
• 15:42
  alternative,
• 15:43
  or
• 15:43
  like
• 15:43
  you
• 15:43
  said,
• 15:44
  even
• 15:44
  in
• 15:44
  the
• 15:44
  alts,
• 15:45
  uh,
• 15:45
  bucket.
• 15:47
  But
• 15:47
  they
• 15:47
  will
• 15:47
  be
• 15:48
  using
• 15:48
  it
• 15:48
  in
• 15:48
  one
• 15:48
  of
• 15:48
  those
• 15:49
  three
• 15:49
  places,
• 15:50
  and
• 15:51
  the
• 15:51
  ETF
• 15:51
  just
• 15:52
  replaces
• 15:53
  those
• 15:54
  existing
• 15:54
  solutions.
• 15:56
  And
• 15:56
  typically,
• 15:56
  what
• 15:56
  we've
• 15:57
  seen
• 15:57
  so
• 15:57
  far
• 15:58
  is
• 15:58
  that
• 15:59
  it's
• 15:59
  a
• 15:59
  complement
• 16:00
  to
• 16:00
  existing
• 16:01
  fixed
• 16:02
  income
• 16:02
  portfolios,
• 16:03
  and
• 16:03
  income
• 16:03
  portfolios
• 16:04
  more
• 16:04
  broadly,
• 16:04
  because
• 16:05
  with
• 16:06
  the
• 16:06
  auto
• 16:06
  callable,
• 16:07
  it's
• 16:07
  options,
• 16:08
  so
• 16:08
  you're
• 16:09
  not
• 16:09
  doubling
• 16:09
  down
• 16:10
  on
• 16:10
  duration
• 16:11
  risk
• 16:11
  or
• 16:11
  credit
• 16:12
  risk
• 16:12
  like
• 16:13
  you
• 16:13
  are
• 16:13
  with
• 16:13
  different
• 16:13
  fixed
• 16:14
  income
• 16:14
  strategies.
• 16:15
  And
• 16:15
  so
• 16:16
  it's
• 16:16
  able
• 16:17
  to
• 16:17
  sit
• 16:17
  beside
• 16:18
  that
• 16:18
  and
• 16:18
  complement
• 16:19
  it
• 16:19
  quite
• 16:19
  well.
• 16:20
  And
• 16:20
  you
• 16:20
  know,
• 16:20
  obviously,
• 16:21
  your,
• 16:21
  your
• 16:21
  yield.
• 16:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:22
  You
• 16:23
  know
• 16:23
  the
• 16:23
  level
• 16:23
  of
• 16:23
  downside
• 16:24
  protection.
• 16:25
  So
• 16:25
  from
• 16:25
  that
• 16:26
  perspective,
• 16:26
  people
• 16:26
  are
• 16:26
  comfortable
• 16:27
  putting
• 16:27
  it
• 16:27
  alongside
• 16:28
  fixed
• 16:28
  income
• 16:29
  or,
• 16:29
  of
• 16:29
  course,
• 16:30
  in
• 16:30
  an
• 16:30
  alts
• 16:30
  bucket
• 16:31
  or
• 16:31
  wherever
• 16:32
  they
• 16:32
  see
• 16:32
  fit.
• 16:33
  Interesting.
• 16:34
  I'm
• 16:34
  glad
• 16:34
  you
• 16:34
  brought
• 16:34
  that
• 16:34
  up,
• 16:35
  that
• 16:35
  it's
• 16:35
  a
• 16:35
  complement
• 16:36
  to
• 16:36
  fixed
• 16:36
  income.
• 16:37
  Some
• 16:37
  may
• 16:37
  not
• 16:37
  think
• 16:38
  that
• 16:38
  it's
• 16:38
  com-
• 16:38
  or
• 16:38
  just
• 16:39
  throw
• 16:40
  it
• 16:40
  in
• 16:40
  that
• 16:40
  bucket,
• 16:40
  but
• 16:42
  it's
• 16:42
  nice
• 16:42
  not
• 16:42
  to
• 16:43
  have
• 16:43
  to
• 16:43
  worry
• 16:43
  about
• 16:43
  duration.
• 16:44
  Just
• 16:45
  get
• 16:45
  into
• 16:45
  that
• 16:45
  subject
• 16:46
  and-
• 16:46
  Yeah
• 16:46
  you
• 16:47
  know,
• 16:47
  trying
• 16:47
  to
• 16:47
  explain
• 16:48
  that
• 16:48
  to
• 16:48
  your
• 16:48
  clients
• 16:49
  and,
• 16:50
  um,
• 16:51
  the
• 16:51
  uncertainty
• 16:52
  there,
• 16:52
  which
• 16:52
  is
• 16:53
  what
• 16:53
  goes
• 16:53
  on
• 16:54
  with
• 16:54
  fixed
• 16:54
  income.
• 16:56
  Will,
• 16:57
  great
• 16:57
  conversation.
• 16:58
  Thank
• 16:58
  you
• 16:59
  so
• 16:59
  much.
• 16:59
  It,
• 16:59
  uh...
• 17:00
  I've
• 17:00
  been
• 17:00
  looking
• 17:00
  forward
• 17:01
  to
• 17:01
  this
• 17:01
  conversation
• 17:02
  for
• 17:02
  a
• 17:02
  while
• 17:02
  now.
• 17:03
  Thank
• 17:03
  you,
• 17:03
  Ryan.
• 17:03
  Thank
• 17:04
  you
• 17:04
  for
• 17:04
  coming
• 17:04
  on.
• 17:04
  It's
• 17:04
  been
• 17:05
  an
• 17:05
  honor.
• 17:05
  Where
• 17:05
  can
• 17:05
  our
• 17:06
  audience
• 17:06
  get
• 17:06
  more
• 17:06
  information
• 17:07
  about
• 17:07
  Granite
• 17:08
  Shares?
• 17:09
  The
• 17:09
  best
• 17:09
  place
• 17:10
  to
• 17:10
  find
• 17:10
  us
• 17:10
  would
• 17:10
  be
• 17:11
  graniteshares.com,
• 17:12
  which
• 17:12
  is
• 17:12
  the
• 17:12
  main
• 17:13
  website,
• 17:13
  and
• 17:14
  of
• 17:14
  course,
• 17:14
  we're
• 17:14
  active
• 17:14
  on
• 17:15
  social
• 17:15
  media,
• 17:16
  @graniteshares
• 17:17
  on
• 17:18
  X
• 17:19
  and/or
• 17:19
  LinkedIn.
• 17:21
  Awesome.
• 17:22
  Thank
• 17:22
  you,
• 17:23
  Will,
• 17:24
  and
• 17:24
  thank
• 17:24
  you
• 17:24
  everyone
• 17:24
  for
• 17:25
  listening
• 17:25
  to
• 17:25
  this
• 17:26
  episode
• 17:26
  of
• 17:26
  Zephyr's
• 17:27
  Adjusted
• 17:27
  for
• 17:27
  Risk
• 17:28
  podcast.
• 17:28
  You
• 17:28
  can
• 17:29
  catch
• 17:29
  all
• 17:29
  of
• 17:29
  our
• 17:30
  other
• 17:30
  episodes
• 17:30
  on
• 17:31
  the
• 17:31
  Zephyr
• 17:31
  YouTube
• 17:32
  channel,
• 17:32
  Spotify.
• 17:33
  Please
• 17:34
  be
• 17:34
  sure
• 17:34
  to
• 17:34
  like,
• 17:35
  follow,
• 17:35
  and
• 17:35
  give
• 17:35
  us
• 17:36
  a,
• 17:36
  uh,
• 17:36
  follow
• 17:37
  on
• 17:37
  LinkedIn.
• 17:37
  Thank
• 17:38
  you
• 17:38
  very
• 17:38
  much,
• 17:39
  and
• 17:39
  have
• 17:39
  a
• 17:39
  great
• 17:39
  rest
• 17:40
  of
• 17:40
  your
• 17:40
  week.
• 17:40
  Let's
• 17:41
  get
• 17:41
  started.