Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Ann Wilson

Transcript

Ann Wilson · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Podcast. My
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: guest today is Ann Wilson. A party and how are
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: you doing. I'm doing great. Good to see you now.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: You say you're out in the country without giving us
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: your address. Generally speaking, where are you Northeast Florida close
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: to St. Augustine, the way out in the country in
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: a rural setting. If you're from the Pacific Northwest, how
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: did you end up in Florida with humidity? And which
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: do you prefer? I prefer the Pacific Northwest in the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: summer and fall. I prefer Florida in the spring and winter.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: So I guess that's kind of a snowbird thing, isn't
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: it right? Right? But we're talking in July, so it
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't quite make sense, right, Yeah, I know, But I'm
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: working right now. I can't just visit where I want
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to visit, you know. Um, it's too hot here right now.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: It's too hot and humid. Okay, So you say you're working,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: what are you doing. I'm getting ready to start setting
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: up a new album that's gonna come out the first
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: quarter of twenty two, and I'm getting ready to go
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: out and do some more gigs. And uh, I'm just
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: involved in all this new music and gigs and stuff. Okay,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: needless to say, the music business has changed from when
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: you started, and it's hard for any it's hard for
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: anybody to get recognition with their new recordings. So what
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: keeps you motivated? Well, I think what keeps me motivated
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: now that everything is so different is uh, kind of
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the same um impetus that got me going in the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: first place, which is just I had things to say,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and I had ideas that just keep banging around in
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: my head and in my soul that I want to
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: set to music. It's it's hard to describe why musicians
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: want to do it from the inside out. It's easy
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: to understand why they might want to create an image
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: and have fame and all that kind of stuff from
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the outside in, But what makes you just scrape it
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: together and go from zero to something on your own?
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: And that's that's really what I've found since we've been
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: in lockdown and all that kind of stuff in the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: music business shut down. There's no money to be made really,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So so what motivates that creative process?
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: You're just lying in bed, something comes to you. What says, Hey,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I want to start. I gotta get my thoughts down.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty emotional, and I guess I'm feisty. And so
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: you put those two things together, and you you need
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: an outlet, even though nobody might be listening. It's a
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: way to handle the energy and force of these emotions.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: So I come from a family that loves poetry and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: loves words. You know. My father used to stand up
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: after a few glasses of wine and recite poetry to
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: the to the friends and family and stuff, and a
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: tear would come down. And and uh, that's where I
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: come from, so that I love words. I love to write.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: You say, you say your emotional and feisty. Yeah, since
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: you lay that out there, how does that manifest itself?
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: How do you describe yourself that way? What does it
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: ultimately mean? I guess it means I want my way
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: just and by that I mean I want to get
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: these things down and physicalize them, bring them into the world,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: make them be. Do you usually get your way? Uh?
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I don't get it my way all the time, but uh,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: when I do, it sure feels good. It really really does.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And how does it feel when you don't get your way? Frustrating,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: totally frustrating, and it just makes me want to try
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: harder to find another way to get it, you know,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: and in writing songs and making music and everything. At
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: this point, after all these years of doing it, it's
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: interesting what I'm going through now because I'm working with
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: much younger people in the studio as players, and uh,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: some of them at the technical level are much younger,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: and so I feel kind of like in some cases
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: the wise old owl. Not not that I know everybody's business,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: but I have to teach everyone my business. They weren't
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: around to understand what it was like at the beginning
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: and the feelings that we tried to access at the beginning.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: You know, how did you get hooked up with these
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: younger people. I was just looking for fresh input and
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: players that were trying to push the envelope out and
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: level up and move forward, you know, and especially I
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: was looking for people that weren't dying on the vine,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: who weren't just resting on their laurels. I was looking
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: for an escape from riding the old horse down, you know,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: from getting into a cycle of just going out and
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: playing the sheds and repeating and repeating until there's nothing left.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I really didn't want to do that. So how did
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you literally find these people? Oh? Literally just by asking around?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: So you're in Florida. Now where you actually going to
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: record the record? I recorded a few of the songs
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: at Muscle Shoals, and a few of them in Nashville,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: and a few of them in Seattle. And who's producing
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: the record? Well, it's produced by me, and by mostly
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: by me. I guess there's like, there's no set producer
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: except for me. I'm where the buck stops on this.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: And where did you find the money to record? In
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: my pocket? So it's your money, so in your idea
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: and you're in your mind, what was the budget for
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: how much you wanted to spend for this new project?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Oh god, I never thought of it that way. I thought,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I'll pay as much as it takes to bring these
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: ideas to fruition. And luckily I'm married to someone who
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: really understands how to tighten the belt and uh cut
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: costs and do do things in a really smart way.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't the big old lavish record recording experience
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: of the past, of the eighties or nineties. You know,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: it was pretty close to the leather and and lean,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: but I like the way it sounds. Okay, So how
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: far along are you in the project? Well, I'm done recording,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: You're done? Yeah, so you have the record? Is not
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: gonna come out to the four first quarter? Uh? How's
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: it going to come out? As there a label? You're
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: gonna do it yourself? And why wait to the first quarter? Well,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: we're dangling it around to all the labels. Now it's done.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to say here it is. What do
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: you think it's the labels that want to wait until
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the first quarter because they need to have actual time
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: to set it up. You know, you're gonna make a
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: deal with one label? Maybe, I don't know. It's still
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: depends on what they come back with. We only are
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: um showing it around, like starting right now, so I'm
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: sure it'll take a while for them to go through
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: their process where they go, let's see, do we hear
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: a single? You know if that's that old thing, you know,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: the Wednesday morning singles meeting? You know absolutely? Are you okay?
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Since you are you a student of the game or
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: the type of person who just makes the music and
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: let the business people take care of it, or you
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: know how the label works. You're talking to people. You're
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: in the woods in the weed. Excuse me. I don't
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: think I'm in the weeds that much. I think that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: over the years I've gone in the weeds a little
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: bit and been frustrated the question. But you're you said
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: you're earlier, feisty person, and you know, you scratch the
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: itch and then sometimes things happen. The music is a
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: music similar to the music you've made before, rock music
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: or is it different? Oh, it's it's rock music for sure,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: and it's it goes from soft emotional ballad all the
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: way up to pretty out there, balls out rock, you know.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've got this great band that's called The
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Amazing Dogs, and they they're just cooler than cool, just
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: so great players. Tony Lucido on base and Tombukavac on guitar,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and um young guy from Seattle named Shanty Lane on
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: drums and Paul Moke on keyboards. I mean, they're they're
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: really amazing. The rhythm section in particular so good. So
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: how old are these guys? I think they're in there
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: late thirties, mid forties. They're young. Yeah, when you reference
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: when you reference the seventies, whatever, they have any idea
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about. They're fans of the music. They
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: love Barracuda for instance. It's just it's sick how much
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: guys in bands, younger guys in bands want to play Barracuda.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: They just want to play that song and a few
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: others like it, Magic Man, stuff like that. Do you
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: get tired of Barracuda? Yeah? So how do you cope?
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: How do you cope with that? Um? Well, I don't know.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Just it's only like four minutes. I like Veracuda. I
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: think that the the idea behind it is great. The
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: the Heart version with Roger Fisher playing guitar was pretty iconic.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: So to me, it's it's just trying to recapture the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: spirit of the song that makes it interesting to do
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: now because we don't have that Roger Fisher sound now.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: And do you sometimes sing it and think about your
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: laundry or what you're gonna do after the gig? Or
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: you always invested in saying it? No, I'm always invested.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: That's ah that that kind of split in your attention
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: is something that is a sin to me. When you're
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: up there on the mic. Okay, and so you're doing
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: this project independently, yet you still tour with Heart. So
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: how do you decide to do which one? Yeah, that's
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: a really good question because it's kind of just like
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: the the relationship between Nancy and I is good enough,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: so we can if she gets her thing done over here,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I get mind done over here. We could just say
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: let's do this other thing and we can do it
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: in terms of our relationship. But it's it's just we
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: want to do a Heart tour when it really matters.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: We don't just want to waste it. You know, who
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: knows how many more years we have left with it.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: It's been together for nearly fifty years now. So you
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: have a big birthday this year. How's that messing with
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: your head? Well? Yeah, I had a seventy one this year,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: so uh so, you know, I don't know. I had
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: a couple of things I got Lukibia ten years ago
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: that I knew I wouldn't really live forever. Then I
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: turned sixty and it really fucked me up. H'm not
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: quite as old as you are, but I was wondering
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: your perspective because one thing is for sure, we're not
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: gonna live forever. Yeah, that's that's dang sure, yeah it.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I think seventy messed with my head and set me
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: back on my heels, like my my bravado just wouldn't
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: even take it. Seventy was just one step too far.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: But then I got over it, and I just I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: feel the same. Um, yeah, I don't know, it's just
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: seventy one. I didn't even feel because it's not one
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: of those years with the zero after it. Eight will
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: be heavy, right, you know? Well, just you know, I
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: think a ringo is either eight one eighty two. Paul
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: McCartney will be a d hard to conceive. The other thing. Yeah, well,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I mean there are people Joe Walsh had, as somebody
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: else said, said, I'm too old to die young. It
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: used to be such a tragedy these rock stars would die.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: But if you die when you're eighty, people die when
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: you're eighty. It's very hear that our generation is going yeah,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: well except you know, eighties the new sixty. I guess so.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I think internally that's true. We just haven't learned that
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: physically in our bodies are bodies are not quite there.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: I think that that the most challenging part of being
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: older in rock is just trying to figure out how
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: you can relate to the younger music that's coming out now,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: because it's coming from people whose experienced levels are so
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: much different. And it's hard to get interested in somebody's
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: song about their boyfriend when you're seventy one, you know,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: so I certainly understand that lyrically, but you know, it's
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: it's interesting. I have the perspective that, uh, you know,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: our frame of reference with because he was the Beatles
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: of British Invasion, San Francisco, etcetera. But Mariah Carey came
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: out thirty years ago. A lot of people that's all
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: they know. Is some they don't even know what we
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: grew up with. So it's hard to hard to relate
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: in general, it is. And one of the things that's
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: really hard to relate to for me is is the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: way of singing, the human way of singing, which is
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: a way that is un altered. It's not tuned without
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: a tune, it's it's a human way of singing, like
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: jan Is saying and like Jagger saying and stuff. Those
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: human ways that are out of tune and imperfect and
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: full of imperfection, um, and those are really that's the
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that's the stuff that's it's range now in our time,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it's so easy to hear Mariah Carey, but it isn't
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: easy to hear Mick Jagger. You know, it's our imperfections
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that make us lovable. Okay, that's right. You've cut a
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: lot of Zeppelin songs. What's your favorite Zeppelin song? I
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: think my favorite Zeppelin song is No Quarter? Really? Yeah,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I like No Quarter up. I like the stuff from
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: the Zeppelin four and Houses of the Holy era really
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: a lot. I think they really hit some real diamonds
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: and that that era, So No Quarter What else going
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: to California see in My Time of Dying? Yeah, God
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: for Sticks, just some of those songs that are just
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit more sophisticated but still just down, you know.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I like. I love that stuff. They get kind of tricky,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: like on the Crunch, and they show that their their
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: intelligence but their insanity at the same time. I like that.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: How did you discover led Zeppelin? M Well, my best
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: friend in high school, uh got a hole. She turned
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: me onto led Zeppelin when a whole lot of love
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: came out, and it's one of those deals where we're
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: high school girls, you know, sitting in her room listening
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: to Plant do a lot of of and just our
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: mind's going crazy and what does this mean? You know,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: way down inside you need it and we're like what
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: But you can't look away from that when you're seventeen
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: or eighteen or something. That's how I got turned on
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the ZEP one. Well, you know, certainly on that album. Uh,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: they have the Lemons song and a lot of sexual references.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Were you were you? Were you a fast girul or
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: were you naive? I was super naive And I remember
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: too well going to a led Zeppelin concert in Seattle
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: at the Green Lake Aqua Theater. I think it was
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: nine or eight and so um with Nancy and the
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: two of us sat there listening to led Zeppelin and
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the Lemon Song and all this stuff. And by the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: time the Lemon Song was half half over, I was
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: headed to the car because it was just too much
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: for me. It was like, this is too much for
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: me to comprehend. I don't know whether this is dirty
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: or whether it's incredible or what okay was to say?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: They say sex, drugs and rock and roll. Uh, you
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: were singing, how did the sex party end up? You know?
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Being awakened by real life, you know, But just the
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: lovers that I had and experiences, especially when I got
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: into um road life with the band, and I was
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: old enough to be in a relationship in my own
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: that was full fledged, you know, real relationship. Plus being
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: on the road with all these dudes all the time.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: That's where I got my education, I think. I mean,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: long before Nancy joined the band, it was just me
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and a whole bunch of men in vans, in busses,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, I guess I learned quick. But
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: didn't you have Roger Fisher as a boyfriend through most
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: of that? Nancy had a boy friend named Roger Fisher.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Excuse me you his brother Michael Fisher. Weren't you involved
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: with Yes? I was, yeah, and we were together from
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: about seventy two to about seventy nine, and uh, yeah,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: he he taught me everything I know. And do you
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: ever talked to him? Now? Occasionally will will connect on
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: UM line. I've he actually after we broke up, he
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: went on to have like eleven children with various other mayors.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and a couple of times I've reached out
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: to him to ask him advice on parenting anyway, But no,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: we don't really hang out or anything. So, uh, when
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: did you know you wanted to sing as a career
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: right off the bat? Probably when I was fifteen. It
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: just it was one of those things like in Close
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Encounters where he's making the mountain out of mashed potatoes
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't know why. It's just just drawn to
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: making this mountain out of mashed potatoes. That's what it
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: was for me in music. It's just like I just
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: that's I just knew that's what I was gonna do.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Nothing else was even a possibility, Not boyfriends, not nothing. Okay,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Well what led up to that? I mean, were you
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: turned on by the Beatles or were you a music
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: head before that? What inspired you to this life? Um?
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I started out by loving classical music and playing an
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: orchestra with the flute, and I come from a musical family,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: classical music, opera, all that stuff, always playing, and so
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: one thing just kind of led to the next. Uh.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I started just like singing along in the family, and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: then feeling the urge to sing in front of people
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the family, and then church group and then whoever would listen,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: and it just kept growing exponentially. Okay, were you known
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: as the singer growing up all that that's the girl
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: with the amazing voice. I didn't discover I had a
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: voice until about seventy when I was up in Vancouver,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: about seventy four, that's when I discovered I had a voice.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Up until then, I was playing at bands, but I
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: was just like the chick in the band who would
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: sing the ballad, you know, like she'd sing Superstar by
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: the time I get to Phoenix or something like that,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and then and then bang of tambourine while the guys
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: did all the rock. We were trying to work out, uh,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: some Zeppelin songs back in the early days, and none
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: of the guys in the band could sing that high.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: So it felt to me. And that's when I discovered
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: that I could sing rock. So you were just you,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: weren't You were playing the tambourine, singing backup vocals in
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: an occasional lead, and the and the cowbell and things
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: like clubs, and I mean, what did you see is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: where you were going? Was this just another step down
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: the road or you said, holy ship, you know, something's
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: got to change here. Well, I didn't have a view
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: of what I was doing from the outside. I only
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: felt that I wanted to keep pushing up, and so, uh,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I just found different guys to be in
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: a band with who would like slept the gear into
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the next club, and then we get a like we
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: played there for a week, and then somebody would come
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: in and go, wow, we like this week, We like
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the chick. How about this club a little bit better
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: of a place? You know how it goes, step up,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: step up, step up, until you finally get some kind
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: of really cool offer where they say, okay, um, Rod
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Stewart was gonna play in Montreal at the Forum, but
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: um the opening band got six so you can open
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: up for Rod Stewart if you want for one night.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And then one thing leads to another. Okay, going back
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: before that, did you play in bands in high school? Yes?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I did. I started when I was a sophomore in
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: high school, just trying to just stitch it together with
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: whoever I could find who either had a car or
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: had a guitar or a shirt with a high boy
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: collar or something like that. You know, did you have
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: bands that would work during high school that got paid
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: to work? No? No, I don't think that I ever
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: got paid to play in a band really until we
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: were up in Vancouver, and we we're able to maybe
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: make ten bucks each week because we lived in a
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: UM in a communal situation, so we take all the
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: money the band would make and we'd split it all
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: up between the band members and the wives and stuff.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: So you'd end up with ten bucks a week. UM,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: but that was pay, you know. That would have been
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: seventy four seventy Okay. So you when you were in school,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: were you a good student, bad student? Were you popular
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: and not popular? I was not popular and I was
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: a mediocre student. I excelled in art and music and
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: English class. All the humanities were easy for me. Um,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: but still I only got ces, you know. I graduated
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: with the two point five or six or something like that.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Nothing to write home about. I was interested in music. Okay,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: So you graduated from high school. Did you ever get
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: education beyond that point? You say, I'm just going to
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: be a musician. I went to out of high school.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I went to Art College in Seattle, and then after that,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I um went into bands. So you know, it didn't
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: take long for me to go from school to being
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: in a band for a living. How long did you
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: go to school for I went to Art College for
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: two years after high school. Okay, And when you leave
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: art school and starting bands, where are you're living? Well,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I was still living with my parents, mooching off my parents,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: you know. Uh. But then when I met Michael Fisher,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: which was right then after art school, I went away
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: to Canada and the rest is just heart history. Well
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: a little bit slower. How did you meet him? And
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: how did you end up in Vancouver? Oh? Okay? Um.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: The band I was at the time was called it
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: was with Roger Fisher and Steve fossen Um. Well, yeah,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: it was called hocus Pocus and we were we got
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: a gig at this club in Bellingham, Washington called the
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Iron Bull, where we were the house band. We were
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: playing there for two weeks I think. And Michael Fisher,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the brother of Roger Fisher who was in my band,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: was a draft evader and he was living up in Vancouver,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: b C. He snucked down over the border to Bellingham
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to see his brother's band, and he spotted this chick
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: singer who was sitting cross legged on the dance floor
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette, and she spotted him and their eyes
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: just went lock. And uh, that's how it started. And
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't not be with him, and he just
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: kept coming down to see me, and finally we got
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: together as a couple and I left the band went
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: up to Vancouver. That lasted about six months before the
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: band chased me up there and we formed the band
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: up in Vancouver. So Michael and I probably had about
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: six months as a couple in romance up in Vancouver
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: before the band came and joined. For somebody who was
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: so driven in music, it seemed like you abandoned it
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: for six months. What was going through your head? I
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: love is pretty powerful. I mean when it's when it's
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: like that, you know, and it's I couldn't see anything else.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: And that's really saying something because I, like you say,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I always have been pretty driven about making the band,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: keeping it together, keep feeding it, being in it, you know.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, so that that love just kind of washed
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: everything else away for six months. Now, it was a
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: different era. But did you want to get married? No,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't think about getting married then. We were just Yeah,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: it was a hugely different era. It was the era
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: of Joni Mitchell saying, we don't need no piece of
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: paper from the city hall keeping us tied and true,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: you know, and I think that Michael and I really
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: bought into that. Okay, so this was you know. Also,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I'm like, today, everybody's got cable TV, everybody's got the Internet.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: There really is no flyover country. But at that point
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: in the early seventies, how different was Vancouver from Washington. Oh,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: it was hugely different. Vancouver was a really international, because
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: cosmopolitan city, small but very sophisticated. And coming into Vancouver,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I remember in the springtime during the easter being they
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: used to have in Stanley Park, it was just magic.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Seattle seemed like a real kind of a cowboy town
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: next to Vancouver. I remember Vancouver was very um, full
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: of artists and um it didn't have that that American
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: nationalism that was very bothersome at the time. And so
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the band follows you up with what intention to put
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: the band back together? I think that they realized that
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: we had something as long as I was in it,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: they we had something special. And Michael Fisher was a
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: really smart, kind of um entrepreneurial type guy. I mean,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: he got the whole concept of how to manage a band,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: what needed to happen. He and his brother would get
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: out there in the sun with their shirts off and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: build the speaker cabinets and um, there's very hands on.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: And we all lived together in this little one room
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: house for a short time and really built the band
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: up from nothing in kind of a um communal tribal away.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: And what was the gig situation there? Oh, it was
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: just at that time Vancouver had two booking agencies, Bruce
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Allen and Access, which was the more into indie type one,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: and we couldn't get any gigs. You know, nobody knew us.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: We were just some band until we finally decided to
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: pull a demo together and we took it to Bruce Allen,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: who was the big booking agent there in town, and
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: he passed on heart. So we went to the other indeed,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: and they said okay, so we went with them. He
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: got us our first gig at this place called the
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Cave in downtown Vancouver, which was made to look like
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: it had stalactites and stalagmites inside and it was all
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: dark and it looked like a real cave. You know.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: That was where our first gig was. And then how
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: often did you work thereafter? We probably worked there, um, god,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: a couple of different stints, maybe a weekend at a time,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: and then we started getting gigs, playing high school dances
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and um and different bars around Vancouver and New Westminster
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: and that area. So we just started stepping it up.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Things started coming to us and with these originals or covers. Oh,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: they were all covers until we started trying to slip
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: these songs like Crazy on You and these new originals
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: like Crazy on You and Magic Man and stuff into
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the set, and the bar audience would they'd wait through
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: this new Crazy on You song until we could get
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: back to the Deep Purple and the rolling Stones and
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the led Zeppa Stop. I just remember them just politely
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: waiting through us banging through Crazy and until it was over,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: and then it's like, okay, now let the fund resume. Okay,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: So when did you start writing songs? And how did
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: you write Crazy on You? And Magic Man started writing
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Crazy on You and Magic Man uh for the Dreamboat
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Any album, which was up in Vancouver. All the songs
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: written in Vancouver about seventy three, and yeah, just started
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: We were writing and playing and traveling all at the
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: same time. So we we'd write a song on the
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: bus during the day and try to fit it in
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: at night. Sometimes I would work sometimes it wouldn't and
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: literally hot on You develop um. Nancy and Roger and
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Michael and I were living in a house in Point Roberts, Washington,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: and let's see, and Nancy was sick with the flu.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: And I had come up with these words, all the
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: words of crazy on You, and so I I was
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: really excited about him. So I went into her sick
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: bed and I went, God, you gotta check these out
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: for Nancy. You know, she had a high fever and everything,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: and I made her sit up and listen to these words.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: And then she got excited too. And we said, well,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: what shall we do for the guitar part? It should
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: be an acoustic song. And so then we said, well,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: what would Justin Hayward do on the acoustic And that's
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: that's how we arrived at the acoustic part for Crazy
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: on You? And Uh, Magic Man was I guess, uh
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: like a leaving home song. When I moved up to
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Vancouver and my mother was just really against me moving
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: not only out of the country, but moving in with
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: a man. And she didn't know if I was just
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: going to end up barefoot and pregnant or you know.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: That was before Roe V. Wade and mothers were extremely um,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: a lot more Victorian with their daughters. Then there was
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: no attitude like all, honey, just go ahead, just you know,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: keep your dignity. That they were like, no, you don't.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: You don't go there with him. You just don't do that.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: So it was a whole different era. So so Magic
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Man was about this thing that went between my mother
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: and I when I was gonna move in with Michael. Okay,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: were those songs just spontaneous or you writing them specifically
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: for an album? They were spontaneous. All the songs on
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Dreboat Any were spontaneous. Um, there wasn't really an idea
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: to make an album. Uh. We were playing most of
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: the song the songs that would translate to a live situation.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: We were playing in clubs and Mike Flicker came and
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: heard us play these songs. I thought that he liked
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: the way I saying he liked the way at that point,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: the way Nancy played. She was sitting in with us
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: sometimes she'd come up from college in Forest Grove, and
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: he liked that combo. And so that's when the idea
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: was hatched for us to make an album. But it
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: wasn't until you know, pretty late the songs were already
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: in existence. Did you already have a desire? I mean,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: were you somebody was a teenager say man, I'm gonna
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: make it. I'm gonna be famous. Oh yeah, yeah. And
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: back then in my young twenties mind, it was like,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: you know what I want is I want the glory.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't think about money. I thought about I wanted
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: to be to get up there and feel the power.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: And did reality live up to the dream at some moments?
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I think it did. Um, I think it would depend
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: on which era you're talking about and which kind of
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: drugs were involved in or not involved, you know, because
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: you know some of those eras that were big party
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: eras and wild, crazy rock star eras, the ego might
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: be a little bit more inflated than other times, so
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the glory might be more powerful than other times. But yeah,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I think I felt all different kinds of being rapturous
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: at being in it, or just going like boy, this sucks,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you know, all different levels of all that. And you
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: mentioned the drugs. Was that something you got into more
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: as part of the rock star a lifestyle where you
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: were an experiment or at an earlier age I was
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: an experimenter with LSD before I went into bands, um seriously.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: And but then in the rock star life, as the
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: years rolled on, the drugs changed and they did different
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: things to your perception of course, like uh, you know,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: cocaine is no ls it's it's a whole different numb world,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: you know. Um. But I was mostly just doing it
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: out of because back then the glorious thing was to
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: be the fabulous disaster, right. Everyone wanted to be Keith
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Richards or some kind of version of you know, Anita
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Palenberg or something and so u. But the trick was
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: to stay alive and not lose it and keep your
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: keep your your clothes on, your shreds around you of
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: intelligence so you can keep on doing this thing and
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: make it be good, you know. So how did you
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: take LSD the first time? And how old were you? Mm? Hmm.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I was seventeen. I had a friend who was going
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: to University of Washington and she was living in the dorm.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: And uh, I was in art school at the time,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: so I must I must have been eighteen. So I
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: was in art school on Capitol Hill in Seattle, and
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: she was at the Youth dub and so I just
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: went over there from school one time to her dorm room,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and uh, she had this acid and we only had
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: one album to listen to, and it was Bookends by
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Simon and Garfunkel, and so we dropped acid and stayed
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: in her room for twenty four hours just looping this record.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: And at some point I think we may have snucked
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: down the hall to buy some hostess pies out of
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: the vending machine and get some water. But but other
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: than that, it was just that was my first asset
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: trip in that album supported the whole thing, no problem.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: It was really really amazing. I'll never forget it. Can
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: you listen to that album? Yeah? Yeah I can. So
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: what were the what were the great insights of your
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: first trip? The visual ones were, We're subtle, but I
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: won't forget them. And it was just seeing the complementary
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: neon colors lining every um sharp edge. If you would
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: look up at a at the window sill or something,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: there'd be this Neon green and Neon purple just lining
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: the window sill. I remember that. The other um more
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: important things I took from it were just the way
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: music was. It was so much more than just auditory.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: It was just there was this soul inside the way
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: each song was written lyrically, and just the the character
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: of each instrument and the colors that are all created. Um,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you could almost taste it. It's just all the senses
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: just bled together. I think, like save the life of
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: my child, you know, just imagine that, Yes, with all
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: the sounds in the background, the other thing on that wreck,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: the other thing on the record which I quote all
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: my friends, I'm not quite there. How terribly strange to
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: be seven day oh god, yeah, yeah, and the voices
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: of old people. Oh yeah. But the other thing is
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: is that America that encapsulated something that was something you
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: did in the sixties and seventies. You've got a new
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: car and you look, people don't even do that anymore.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: You know, they'll fly somewhere over that whole experience of anonymity,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: discovering the country, the world yep, like being on a
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: bus or a train or something. Right, So you had
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: a good experience. How often did you do do LSD
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: after that? Well? After that, I did it every chance
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I could. Um, probably had probably another I don't know,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: a dozen trips or something with Nancy and with Sue
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: and us, with my sister Lynn and her commune every
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: chance I could. I think I even had a couple
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: by myself. Um, But I was never a person who
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: wanted to go out and climb trees or stuff like that.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I always wanted to be inside in a controlled situation
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: with the music I wanted to listen to. It was
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: about It was all about music for me. Um, with
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: the music I wanted to listen to. Ready to go,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: So I the all the loose ends tied up. Nobody's
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: gonna come over, no one's gonna call, you know, so
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: you don't have to deal with the outside world. Just
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to dive into music as far as
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I could. Did you ever have a bad trip once? Yeah,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: And it was because I didn't get the loose ends
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: tied up. And I was over with Nancy at Sue
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: and us his house. Sue's ers were gone, um somewhere
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: on vacation. So we had the house and we took
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: this opportunity, and I neglected to tell my parents that
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Nancy and I were going to spend the night over there.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: We just went, you know, like sometimes young people will
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: just do that. And so we dropped. The acid was
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: orange Sunshine, and I was supposed to be at band practice.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Nancy was supposed to be home. So so first the
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: guys at ben practice started calling the house and saying,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: where's Anne. She didn't show up, We can't find her.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Were worried about her. And then so my mom would say, oh,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know, she's not here. And then pretty soon
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Nancy didn't come home. So my mom is going, where's Nancy,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: where's Ann? Right? And so she figured out we were
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: probably at best friend Seu's house. So she started calling
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: up there, and the phone kept ringing, and we kept
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: pretending we didn't hear it, and finally my mom just
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: got in the car and came over and banged on
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: the door and Nancy's who hit upstairs in the bedroom.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: And because we're in the middle of this, we're in
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: another universe, you know, we can't deal with a angry
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: mother at that time. But I went downstairs, I answered
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: the door. She pulled me out into her car and
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: confronted me. Are you high? You know, look at you
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: You're high, right, And I'm like, oh, no, I'm not hot,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: you know, like and uh, she let me have it,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: you know, across the face once and and then she
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: kind of shoved me out of the car and said, okay,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: go back to it. You can go to hell. Tell
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Nancy to go there too, And then she backed out,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: knocked over all the trash cans in the street and
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: took off and I went back in the house. And
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: the whole rest of the trip, Nancy and Sue and
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I were just in hell. It was like we could
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: not come back from that. You know, that was a
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: bad trip. So what music did you like to listen to?
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: At that point? We were listening to Moody Blues, uh,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: in Search of a Lost Card, the White Album, Sergeant Pepper,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: and possibly maybe the first Elton John album. And that's
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: that's pretty much what it was. You know, I can't
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: remember if there was anything else, but you know, you
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: could listen to the White Album on acids and it's
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: like an hour plus long, and that's a that's a
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: universe of time, and then you might listen to it again,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: you know, And is in Search of the Lost Cords?
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Your favorite Boody Blues album at this time? I think
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: maybe Days of Future Past is again, but those two
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I think are my favorite. They've just really hit on
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: something right then, you know, Timothy Leary and all the
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: other things, but I went back to that at this point.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: It's the one I listened to most. So you're in Vancouver,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: what was your relationship with Nancy? With Nancy and how
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: did she fit into your bands before you moved to Vancouver. Um,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: she wasn't in the bands I was in before I
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: moved to Vancouver. She was still in high school. And
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: then after that she went to university in Oregon, and
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: she was serious about spending some time in college and
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: I wasn't. So I was just already out in this
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: band life. And we were driving to Montana, um Idaho,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: up into Saskatchewan and just ranging out in these gigs
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: with the band I was in, and she was not involved. Finally,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: because she and I had been so tight growing up
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: and learning how to play guitars together and singing together. UM,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to to enrich Heart or Hocus Focus.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: I mean the band I was in with more ability
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: to play acoustic guitar, more ability for backup harmoniars, because
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: we had settled into Hocus Focus, had settled into this
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: sort of bar band mentality was just like maybe two
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: part harmonies tops. Um, every song was kind of on
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: a Johnny be good level, you know, like nothing really
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: sophisticated was coming out of that band. Um Steve Foston
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: singing Suffragette City and stuff like that. And it was okay,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't gonna go anywhere, you know, it was
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: just gonna end up being in bars forever. So I
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: started asking Nancy to come up and visit us in
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Vancouver and sit in and provide her acoustic and provide
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: some more harmony singing, which she did. She was really shy.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: She she didn't really enjoy it, you know, but it
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: sure made the band sound better on that level. And
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: then um, one thing led to another person. We started
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: writing those songs. She and Roger Fisher got together and
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: the two Wilson sisters and two Fisher brothers became a
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: family living group. And she left college and moved up
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: and that's when um Mike Flicker had discovered us playing
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: in a club called Starwin Marvin's and said, well, come
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: on down and let's demo you guys. So we went
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: in first without Nancy any past. Then we went in
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: again a year later with Nancy, and he liked the
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: two sisters thing, you know, and so that was kind
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: of a an extra added um, smallsey thing that worked
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: for him, and so mushroom scientists on the basis of it,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: be me, Nancy and Roger, and we may dream bout Annie. Okay,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I have two sisters, and older sister and a younger sister.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: They can be lovey dovey. They can be at each
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: other's throats, calling me bitching about the other one. What's
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: it like being in a band with your sister, Boy,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: there's no one way that it's like. Um. Sometimes it's
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: just great because you come from a common stamp, you know,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: and you know, uh, you've got like a language together
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: and all that where you can finish each each other's sentences.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: But also along with that you have this incredibly complex
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: um set up of buttons you can push to upset
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: each other or or you know, just a little tiny,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: little throwaway comments that just hurt like hell or shut
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: you down, or you can do the same thing for them.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: So it's equally as good as it is bad. It's tricky.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: The Nancy and I managed to make it be mostly
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: good for years as long as it was just she
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: and I, but when other people came into our lives,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: it got more and more and more tricky because we
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: started to grow up and have our you know, come
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: into our own two separate Like people used to treat
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: us like we were joined at the hip, and I
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: guess we kind of were. But the minute we separated, Um,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: that's when things got good and things got super hard.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: And it's the status of it today. Well, it's she's
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: doing She just released an album, a solo album you
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: probably know, and um, we've both been doing our solo things.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: But in two thousand nineteen, before the lockdown, we did
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Heart Tour that was the most satisfying and successful commercial
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: to her hearts done in a long time. UM. So
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: we can do that whenever we want, and our relationship
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: will take it. Like things that have happened in the
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: past are we've come to the point where we've let
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: the air out of them and when we want to
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: get together and make music, we can do it, you know,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: without it being all negative and personal and stuff. I mean,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: we're she's a good, great musician. I really like her.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: She's an original, she can do stuff, um, and she
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: gets me do. We just have to really watch out
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: for the sibling pitfalls, you know. And I know you
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: know what I mean because you were talking about your sisters,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: you know. So let's just say you're not on the road,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: you're not preparing or doing a hard tour. How much
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: contact do you have if any? Yeah, we have some,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: but not that much. It's mostly birthdays and and you know,
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: something happens in the family or just something that made
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: us think of the other. One will go, hey, I
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: saw this, and I thought of you. You know, after
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: forty five years of living in each other's pockets, it's
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: kind of refreshing to be an adult, a completely separate adult. Um.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: And it really has helped me with my writing and
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: my own agenda of just doing things my way, you know,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: which is what I was doing before she joined the band.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so you go into the studio with Mike Flicker.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: How long does it take to cut dream Body any?
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: And how different are the songs from how you were
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: playing them live? And were you happy? Um? Let's see
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: how long did it take to make the record? Trying
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: to remember, I think it wasn't as long as we
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: usually take now. It's probably a month or a month
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: and a half tops, um, because we've been out there
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: playing the songs live, so the songs were already road tested.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Some of them sounded much better on the record than
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: they did live, because, for instance, the song Crazy on You,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: we did have a drummer that we liked enough to
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: use in the studio, So on stund Crazy on You,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: it's the drum part is a series of edits that
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Mike Flicker did very cleverly, and you can't even tell
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: that it's not being played all the way through. But
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: I remember how complicated that one track was. The drummer
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: we were using live just wasn't up to it. So
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: we got this guy cat h Hendrix in to play,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: and he was like a jazz player almost, and he
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: played on Crazy Um, So it sounded better on record
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: than live. Same with magic Man Boy. You should have
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: heard the demo I came in with for Magic Man.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: It was the groove that we were playing live was
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: more like like the old Indian thing of do do
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Do Do do you Know? And then in the studio
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: that evolved to do to do do you Know? Um?
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: And songs like how Deep It Goes and Hear Song
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: and all that were my romantic love songs you know
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: that I wrote just on my acoustics. So from that
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: little demo, the songs just opened up into like full
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: band productions. So they really did come alive a lot
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: on that record. And there was a third part to
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: your question, was I happy yet when it was all done?
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Were you satisfied or you felt like you missed it
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit or it didn't sound like it was
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: in your head? Now? I was thrilled. I was just
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: like over the moon. And the experience in particular of
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: singing the lead vocal on Crazy and You is something
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget because this first time I'd ever opened
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: up and sung in a studio with a big mike
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: and everything and Mike Flicker. They're producing me and coaching
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: me and drawing me out, you know, and I just
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: I just remembered what that felt like too, to sort
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: of arrive at that, you know, it was like a revelation. Well,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: you said earlier that you've learned that you could sing
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: in seventy four. Was that when you were cutting the
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: record or was it before but slightly before it was live?
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: When I started, we used to do this led Zeppelin
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: medley in bars that was, you know, twenty five minutes
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: long and just one song into the next. That's when
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: I realized that rock was really a blast. To sing
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: sing loud and high, and I could sing Aretha, and
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: I could sing um Ian Gillen from Deep Purple and
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And what was wild about
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: that too is that it's back then it was a
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: woman singing it and no one else was doing that.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: So the audiences were like, yeah, that was something that
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: really caught their imagination. Okay, how long after you cut
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: the album does it come out? And when do you
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: realize something starting to happen in terms of airplay and sales.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Mustroom Records was a small, little indie label in Vancouver,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: and they it was all this little in house staff,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: very small operation, and we got through with the record.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: It was released on Valentine's Day, I think, and by
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: summer we were out on tour supporting it and riding
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: around in the back of Nancy and I riding around
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: in the back of a car being driven by Shelley Siegel,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: who was the um the publicist at Mustroom, and we
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: did this coal miners daughter thing with him where he
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: drove us to the record stations, I mean the radio stations,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: and we'd go in and sit down and go HI,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: where the girls from Heart and and and then the
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: the jock would play our song and we talk a
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: little bit, and then we'd leave and Shelley Wood slept
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: down like a grammar blow and get him a hooker later.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: It was that old seventies kind of payola deal. So
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: we did that within a couple of months with the
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: record being done, and that kind of got the radio
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: play going. And and then once it was being played,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: then people started calling in and different part of the country.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Parts of the country opened up at different rates. It
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: was interesting. You'd think it would be the glamorous part
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: of the country's like New York and l A, but
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: they were the last to like Heart. The places that
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: came to us first were St. Louis and Atlanta and
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: Detroit and Cleveland, you know, places like that, Chicago, the
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: ones that were where people are more down that they
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: liked their rock, you know. And when was the first
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: time you heard it on the radio? Oh? Um, the
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: first song I heard in the radio was Magic Man
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: and it was I was It was probably uh a
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: month after we got done recording, and I was coming
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: back from the grocery store with my dog in the
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: back of the car, and I had the radio on
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: and here comes well first it's like Captain into Neil,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: you know, love will keep us together. And then the
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: next song is magic Man, and I had to pull
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: over and freak and freak out, you know, because it
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: was so cool. It's so surreal. The first time you
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: hear that it's it breaks this kind of little hyman
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: and your brain of yourself image. It breaks it all down.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: So you're just like, whoa, here's me and that's me.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: You know, you have to learn how to accept that
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: it's one. I don't know if that makes any sense,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: but no, absolutely, But how is yourself image? How was
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: it before? Could you embrace the success? Did you feel
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: you weren't worthy? You're getting the attention? So what was
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: it like being inside you? I always thought that I
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: was worthy. I never felt that I was the ship
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: like because I knew I was learning. I was still
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: worshiping at the knees of my idols like Plant and
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Ian Gillen and Elton John and the Rod Stewart, the
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: various people that I liked, the singers at that time.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: And I guess that, you know, all I could here
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: was someday I'll be able to sing that great. You know,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't have any sense of trying to sing like
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: a woman or sing like a man. I just wanted
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: to sing like a soul, you know. So summer the
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: being really explodes. You know. I was traveling in the
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: West and you know, not the metropolis, and you heard
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: the records everywhere before I came ultimately to l A.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: So could you feel that? And the album was as
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: successful as any other album that summer and you're on
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: this little independent label out of Vancouver, did you realize
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: it was going well? It didn't really go as quick
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: as we wanted it too, because we weren't able to
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: come down to the States to turi it because Michael
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Fisher was wanted for a draft evasion. Um. It was
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: that summer. I think that he realized that he had
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: to go get that straightened out so that he could
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: come down with us as the band's manager to the
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: States and we could open up down here, you know. Um,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: So we didn't really get a feeling for what it
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: was like to drive around to America and here our record.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: We only knew Canada at that point. But then once
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: we were okay to come down here, it seemed like
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: it was everywhere. Especially crazy On You was the first
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: single I think, and then Magic Man came after that
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: and we couldn't get it played that. This is funny.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: It took us a while to get Magic Man to
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: really hit because it was long, and back then, to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: really hit you had to be played on AM radio
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: and the songs couldn't be any longer than say, three
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: minutes in fifteen or twenty. And so finally somebody, I
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: don't exactly know how this went down, but somebody didn't
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: edit that was the right length and they put that
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: on AM radio and then all hell broke loose. We
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: were an FM band up until then All Hell breaks loose?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: How does it change you in the band in the situation, Well,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: we start getting these really amazing gig offers like cal
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Jam two, and you know, it's just so funny what
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: happens when all of a sudden your song is on
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: the radio and everyone just thinks that you've taken this
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: gigantic leap up into their view as some kind of
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: mythological creature. Um. So yeah, we started getting really good
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: gig offers to warm up for Jefferson Starship, and I
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: guess there was Airplane at first, and then just about
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: everybody bgs all the bands that were huge. Then we
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: started getting offers to warm up for them and get
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: on getting on these big stages, and just it just grew,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: just started to inhale and did you int your on
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: your inter your level. I want to say, Okay, I'm
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: gonna blow I'm gonna win over the audience who frequently
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't pay attention to the opening act, and I'm gonna
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: blow the headliner off the ridge. All right. Well I
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: never held the headliner any ill will, but yeah, I
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: wanted to go out there and just bulow everybody away.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: And especially when you go out there and maybe it's
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: still light out and people are filing in. That's hard.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: That's hard. And I think about that now with opening acts,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: you know, like especially when you're playing sheds and it's
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: six o'clock at night or seven o'clock at night, still light,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: it's hot and everything, the sun's on the stage. Some
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: poor openers out there just sweating away, trying to just
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: get them off. So I was trying to be nice
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: to them, you know, given whatever they need, because that's
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: a that's a hard place to be in. But um, yeah,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: back then it was mostly indoors. We didn't play the
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: whole shed live nation shed thing didn't exist then, So
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: we got We came up playing inside arenas mostly and
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: some outdoor. So now you have this level of success.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: You're somebody from Seattle, which was not a hotbed. They
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: had the Kingsman then ultimately the Grunero, but you were
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: between that. You in Vancouver was a different country. Suddenly
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: you have this international success. You start meeting all your heroes.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: What's that like? Yeah, yeah, well it didn't take long
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: to realize that there where the myth stops and the
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: person starts, you know, when you start meeting people. And
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: but still the thrill was not gone, you know, Meeting
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: and John was just so over the top amazing. Um,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Freddie Mercury, Brian, all those guys, all the different people
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: we met. We opened up for Nazareth overseas and I
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: was a huge fan of them. Um oh, Grace Slick,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: just all the different people who I looked up to
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: when I was a little kid. Um, I mean not
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: even that little, just the five years before. You know, Uh,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: that was really eye opening, life changing stuff. And it
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: changes you because all of a sudden they're looking at you,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: talking to you as if you're an equal and you.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I rapidly lost the thing of not worthy. Not worthy,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: you know, I felt like, well, maybe these are like dots,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe there are people that understand how I feel, and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: it it is true. I came to the feeling that
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: there's there's definitely a type of alien being that does
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: this for a living, and especially if you have the
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: drive and the push to take it all the way,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: you've got to be a certain kind of animal. And
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: so when you meet those animals, you reckon as each
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: other sometimes, you know, other than Elton John who lived
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: up to the rep plant I think Robert plant Um,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: I meant Jagger, and he was just as much of
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: a princess as I thought he would be. We opened
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: up for the Stones at in Boulder, Colorado, and their
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: huge tour with the pink stage that raked down, you know,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the lips and tongue thing, and they just had shuttles
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: going from the hotel to the gig, and Michael and
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: I were standing down there waiting for a shuttle to
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: take us over there, and Jagger comes down to get
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: the shuttle and he grabs the first shuttle and doesn't
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: want anybody else in the car with him because it'll
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: wrinkle his trousers right, and so I went, yeah, okay,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I got it. Um Um. I thought Brian May wasn't
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: an incredible intelligent person and a gentleman. Um John Paul Jones,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: same thing. Just there are so many of them, you know.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: I thought Grace Slick was. She was probably one of
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: the wildest aliens I've met. So did you like the
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: grind of the road? I did? Yeah, I was good
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: with it. When you're in your mid twenties, even later twenties,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: it's it's no big deal, you know what I mean.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: You recover from from the travel you can. You're just
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: much more rough and tumble, you know, and uh, the
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: hours and the all the different modes of transportation, like
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: especially over in Europe, it's not, uh the tour bust
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: thing is not as developed as it was over here,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: so you're on trains and and vans and stuff like that,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: you know, and especially over in Europe back then rock
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: was just such a new thing. Rock shows were it
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: wasn't anything like it is now, you know, as you
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: will know. And so you'd go in and you'd play
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: these weird places like I remember we had a gig
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: in Belgium that where it was just this creepy, little old,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: mildewy theater with Nazareth, and they put us in a
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: hotel that all the lampshades were torn and there was
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: trash all over the floor and dirty sheets and stuff.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: And I was it scared the ship out of me
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: because I was just a little girl from Bellevue, you know,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: where everything was fine and there's a big learning experience
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: and lots of those places. Needles say, in the last
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: five years we had me to awareness in America. But
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: you were one of only a handful of successful female
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: rock stars at the time. In addition, you were the
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: front person. What was that like? Yeah, it was kind
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: of like being being from another planet because no one
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: really knew how to treat you, where to put you.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: If you were a folk singer or a disco diva,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: they would have known, but being a rock singer, they
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: just automatically pegged me as is this wild kind of
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: like a nymphamaniac um uh crazy drunk, just wild thing,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: you know, And that really wasn't what I was like.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: Um So, yeah, there was a real stereotype that was
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: like an instantaneous, made up stereotype that was placed on me,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: and Nancy too to a lesser degree, because she's She's
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: blond and fair and a little bit more delicate physically
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: and everything. So they just saw me and went, there's
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: a rock bitch, you know, and that I really didn't
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: measure up. I want to messer up to that inside
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: my own self. Well, I'm sure you had some bad
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: experiences as a result of people's perceptions and their aggressiveness. Yeah,
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: but I weathered that. I weathered it because I didn't
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: take it seriously. Um. I just kind of had an
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: attitude like, well, they don't know, you know, the band
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: I'm with takes me seriously, and what really matters is
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: what I do when I get up there. I kind
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: of think I had a sense that I was instrumental
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: in changing a perception of what women could be and
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: do in music. I was one of the few that
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: we're doing that. Okay, you have the legal situation with Mushroom.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: You end up on Portrait, which is basically epic part
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: of CBS Records at the time. What was different about that, Well,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: it was different in that, like all of a sudden
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: things got big, you know. It was just you went
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: to New York to the Black rock, you know, and
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: and you you hung out at a in a penthouse
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: in a champagne cocktail party with Slim Whitman. You know,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: it just got automatically huge. And you met Yoko Ono
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: and you met Bob Grulin and it got big fast. Um,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: it's very breathless cool time for sure. Uh. And just
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: they made things happen. Okay, you know you're living in obscurity, right,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: the first album that blows up, then you have to
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: write more songs. What was the pressure like, Yeah, that
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: was a good one in terms of pressure. I mean
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: it was. It was just like there's kind of a
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: um hypocrisy because people just love your first record and
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: they just go, oh, you're such an artist. You know,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: we just love your mind, we love your sensibility. Right,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: another one? So then you do and they go, well,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: why isn't that like the first one? You know? Like
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: that then, And I'm not blaming other people for being
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: um that way, because they're that way with all artists.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: The thing that blows up between the artists and the
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: salesman is a year old. It will never change. That
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: goes back to your question about how the music industry change, Well,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: not at all. You know, um, but yeah, the second
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: record was more us writing songs that were that came
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: out of being on the road and traveling and all
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: this big concerts and stuff and are my personal experience.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: Like the song Little Queen, I think has a certain
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: sort of bitterness about it, like, Okay, you gotta get
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: up there, no matter how you feel, you gotta get
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: up there. It's almost like a Judy Garland mentality, you know,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: put on the nose, get out there and just do it,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: you know. Um. So yeah, the second album had elements
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: of that, almost biting the hand that was feeding us,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: but not quite. Yeah, but you had success with that
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: second record. As long as you sell records, they don't
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: in retrospect, they'll stay off of you. But how much
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: did they interfere with your creative process there? Not at all,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Not at all. I don't remember being interfered with it all. Um.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: We had the we had a combination in me and
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: Nancy writing songs and Roger Fisher writing songs with us,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: and Mike Flicker producing. That was that was working at
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: the record company company level two. So they didn't really
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: start interfering with us until the eighties. Well, let's wait
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: for the eighties. First, Second, how did how did? How
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: did it end? With you and Michael Um? We were
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: living in we bought a house together in Seattle, came
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: down from Vancouver, Um and we were working on Baby
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: Less Strange recording in Seattle at Case Smith and Uh,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: it was revealed to me by other people that he
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: was unfaithful. And because I was off writing songs with
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Nancy and Sue all the time, and and I was
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: or I was in the studio, we drifted apart and
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: he found solace elsewhere. And I wasn't the kind of
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: person who could just turn my head and say, well,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: that's my fault. You know. I walked out. I felt
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: not jealous, but I felt rejected, and so I left.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: That's how we've split up. But he was your first
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: serious relationship, and you can't get over that so fast.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: See I I didn't think so either, Like I felt
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: that was a serious betrayal. I thought that maybe he,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: at the very worst, maybe he would tell me. But
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: it got to this point where everyone else in the
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: whole group knew except me, and everyone was trying to
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: keep it from me because the golden goose, right, and
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: they don't want to upset me or something make it
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: so I killed myself or stop writing songs or whatever.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: As it turned out, I found out and that's what happened,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: and I went into a real tail spin for a
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: long time about that. I think it shook myself confidence
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: in a way that was real deep. How long did
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: it take you to recover from that? If ever? Well,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't get into another serious relationship until I was
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: sixty four years old, So it took me thirty plus
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: years to actually trust again. Um, but that's not to
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: say I didn't have a good time in those thirty
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: five years. You know, I dove headlong into being free
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: and individual and wild and uh, doing whatever I wanted
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: with whoever I wanted for a long time, but not
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: committing to anyone. So I guess you could say I
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: didn't recover until I was in my sixties. And what
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: changed I met Dean? What was different about him? He's
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: incredibly intelligent. Um, he's he's like, uh, he's like me.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: It's almost like we're two versions of the same thing.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: And he's got this spirituality that it's it's really basic
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: and simple and that I can really identify with. We
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: both felt like we recognized each other. Um, that's about
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: all I can say is like, it's just like this
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: familiarity of someone that you just know that you know
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: them and that well, this is it, this is what
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: it's going to be. It's so comfortable. It's it's like,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: uh something that where you know you're supposed to be.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: But he's he's a lot, I mean, Deans a lot.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: He's a beautiful, highly intelligent person, but he's complicated and
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: sensitive and brainy and scientific, you know, a lot of
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: a lot. They're a lot there. So how do you
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: cope between the two of you? You see, you have arguments,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: you see a therapist. How do you how do you
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: all relationships have these issues? How do you guys cope? Well,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: he's he's a therapist. I see a therapist, you know,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: I mean our problems we mostly talk out. Um, sometimes
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: we can't because we're both so complicated and we'll just
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: go round and round until the elephant in the room
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: is so big that we have to you know. Um.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: And when we got married, we just kind of walked
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: off together, you know, we we didn't. We got together
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: in November and we were married by April. Um. That
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: was seven years ago, and we've been together every day
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: and every night since, except for the four Daisy spent
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: in the slammer over that White River deal that happened. Um,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: but it's pretty intense how much total immersion we have
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: together now in the interim in that thirty five years.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: You have children, correct, Yes, I do. I do. So
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: how did that? How did that come to be? And
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: what was that like? Well, I adopted both my children.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: They I was looking to adopt, um because I was
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: ready to have children. I just didn't feel that I
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: wanted to wait and wait and wait and wait for
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: Mr Wright, you know, because I was in my thirties
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: at that point. Um, no, actually early forties. So I
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: went to an adoption agency and another one and another one,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: and they weren't really having it because here I am,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: this single woman in rock and roll, right, and they
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: weren't looking to place babies. They were looking to place
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: babies with two parents, upwardly mobile, stable families. So then
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: it just happened that a young girl that I knew
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: peripherally came to me and said that she was pregnant,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: she couldn't keep her child, would I consider adopting it?
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: So I had That happened twice, and both my children
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: came to me before they were born, and I supported
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: the mothers. They're both like seventeen year old girls who
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: had just gotten out of their depth, you know, and
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be mothers yet, and so I supported them,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: took them to their doctor's appointments, and then when the
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: time came for the births, I was there and you know,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: had two babies seven years apart. And what was it
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: like being a single mother in addition working and working
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: on the road frequently. Yeah, Well, luckily, you know, I
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: took the babies on the road with me that when
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: they're little, football is like that, they're fine on the road. Um.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: I was able to get to our buses where you
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: could child proof them, you know. And and uh, I
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: think my daughter was with me on the road until
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: she's about thirteen when she finally said, you know, Mom,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: I've seen every aquarium and every minuteure golf place in
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: this country and I'm sick of it. I want to
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: be with my friends. And the same with my son.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: You know, they had great upbringing. They went to Europe
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: and Japan and Australia and all over the country that
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: they had a great childhood and what are they up
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: to today. My daughter is thirty and she has got
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: six kids. She married a man who had twins, then
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: she had four of her own. And my son is
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: twenty three and he's uh a corrections officer at the
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: Monroe State Prison in Washington State. And are they independent
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: of you or do you support them financially? They're independent,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: they're independent of me. Okay, let's go back. Ye, so
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: you're on Epic, you have a number of hits. How
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: does it end with Epic? M hmm, let's see. Um.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: I think it ended with Epic when we did the
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: private audition album, or it might have been Passion Works.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: That was our first record that did not sell, the
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: first one that was a commercial failure, right, and uh,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: suddenly we took this commercially, this big nose dive and
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: heart couldn't really get arrested on the radio, which is
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: you know, as you know, which is how you did
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: things back then. There was no MTV yet or anything.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: It's just starting up. And so eventually at it just
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: kind of went well, no, we're we're done here, you know.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: And right at that same moment, Don Grierson at Capitol
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: came to us and said, well, you know, I think
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: that you guys could really be huge if you allow
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: me to introduce songwriters to you and if you take
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: advantage of this MTV thing and if you signed a capital.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: So we we did that. You know, we were did
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: kind of a faustian bargain with that. I think. I
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: think at that point I wasn't ready to just go
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: back to obscurity. I wanted to keep it going, uh
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: And I liked getting all dressed up. I liked up singing,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: and so I didn't have any qualms about singing other
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: people's material. It was just like going back to the
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: beginning for me um at first. So we signed a
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: Capital and made this record with ron Nevison producing Dan Sacelito,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: and it went number one. And of course they there
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: were of the twelve or fourteen so songs that are
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: on there, four of them or five of them were
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: our compositions. The rest were from Diane Warren and Um
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Peter both and Bernie Taupin and a few other people
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: who Kelly Steinberg, and so we had this huge success.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: So we made three albums right in the Rover Capital
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: that that happened with, and we made all these big,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: expensive MTV videos and and and wore the big hair
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: and all the whole kabuki set up, and that became
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: a real trap, became a real uncomfortable deal, especially when
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: you try to take that MTV thing with all the
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: stylists and take it out in the hot summer outside
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: shed setting where it's a hundred degrees and you're wearing
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: this corset and this big, huge mane of hair and
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: everything is just really hard um to maintain that pose.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: And so at the end of the eighties, after we
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: did Heart Bad Animals and Brigade, I think we were
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: done with that. We just were we were exhausted, and
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: we went home to Seattle and just took everything off
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: and just went, well, I don't know what's going to
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: happen now, but I'm not doing that anymore. You know,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: we've gone about as first week ago with that one,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: and then there was grunge and we kind of landed
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: in the middle of that. So all your hits previously
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: been written by the band, primarily you and your sister.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: What's it like singing somebody else's songs and having all
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: the recognition for that. Yeah, it's that's a real um
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: double edged sword, because if the if, if the song
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: is a great song that somebody else has written, it's
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: a pleasure, like the song Alone or These Dreams or
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: one of the really well written ones that has substance,
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a pleasure and a joy. But some
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: of those other songs that were just written for the
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: radio for the eighties radio, like nothing at All or
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: who Will You Run To? Or Never, those types of
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: things boring, boring, boring, and uh, for me, it was
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: just like some kind of I don't know, I'm I'm
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: trying not to get too colorful here, but some kind
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: of master masturbatory, um, meaningless exercise. Then I got real
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: tired of and it wore on my voice because they
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: weren't songs that I'd written for myself. But I knew
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: how to pitch, you know. Um. So I think the
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: mood changed in the eighties for us, and it was
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: it was hard. It wasn't exciting. It was hard and
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: commercial and corporate. How was your relationship with a label
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: with Capital? It was good. I mean, we spent time
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: over there at the Capitol Building in l A. And
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: I went a couple of the Wednesday morning singles meetings,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: and you know, played that game a little bit, uh
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: back then, because you get into the situation where they
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: sort of have you over a barrel, like if if
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: you don't cooperate, then they won't cooperate. If if you
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: don't do what's necessary, then they could just let the
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: whole project sit and fail. Um. So pretty soon you
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: wake up and find yourself just in this situation of powerlessness,
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: and the realization came to me that, like, God, what
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: am I spending my life on this for? You know,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: this isn't what I got into this for. I'm only
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: coming back to that now, you know. Okay. Needless to say,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: MTV is all about image, and women are very concerned
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: about their image. How did you feel about being in
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: videos in the focus, etcetera. Yeah, that that was really
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: really hard because it was big, big money to make
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: these big productions that were like mini movies with stylists
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: and catering and um all these cameras and big name
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: producers and directors and uh, it was a whole lot
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: of work. And they the videos are what sold the
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: records in those days, so it worked. Needless to say,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: there were issues in the eighties with your body and weight.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: What was that experience for you. Oh, it was really
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: hard and and personal. It got really personal and it
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: was hurtful. But I used to look at myself and go, well,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: you know, like, I'm not following the rules of how
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to be, so do I deserve the because
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not a h obeying the rules of what you're
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: supposed to look like. And I always came back too, well, yeah,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not observing the rules, so maybe I deserve this. Um.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: I went through everything I could do, like, you know,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: every diet, every fasting, every thing you could do, but
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: it was just too hard for me to live behind.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of what changed the mood
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: about it the eighties for me too. Now, ultimately, after
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: the Capital era, you do TV ads for weight loss? Yeah,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: how do you decide to do that? Well? I met
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: these people who, um, who were willing to help me
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: in my weight loss goals and if I would speak
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: out for one of their products, and so I did,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: and then they helped me, they paid for the medicine.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: And where are you at with your body and weight
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: and image today? Well, you know, I I'm pretty relaxed
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: about it. Um. I really have spent so much of
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: my life struggling with it. That I it's just something
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: that you can You can have it stopped your whole life,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: or you can realize that you can go on with
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: your life and accept yourself radically. And I think I've
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: met just the right people, like a couple of my
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: trainers and stuff, who have taught me about radical self acceptance.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean just being happy to be a slab.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: That means looking at yourself realistically and and not through
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: the eyes of pop culture. Okay, So you and your
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: sister wrote all these songs. Who owns those songs today?
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: Owns um? I don't know about Nancy, about her. I
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: know that some of some of the publishing is with Merk.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure how that's I'm not sure how that's
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: going right now. But so in in terms of your publishing,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: have you sold all your interest for a lump sum
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: to Murk or there are things that doesn't own. There
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: are the things that he does not own. So what
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: does Mirk own? Okay? And what you do with the
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: money that Mark gave you it's going to be invested, Okay.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: Was that a tough tough decision to make a deal
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: with Mark, No, because because you know, we met with
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: him and and talked a lot about about ideals and
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: and you know how we're going to do this that Like,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't just want to sign it away or sell
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: if it was just going to go into the toilet,
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: you know. Oh okay. So if we go through the seventies,
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: you're writing the songs, but revenue from the music business
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: is less. We go into the eighties, the hit songs
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: are not written by you, so you're making record royalties
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: which are not extremely high and split with other members
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: of the band. So how does it worked for you
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: financially over these decades? Not in a bad way, because
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: there's been a constant tour going on. We've just Heart
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: has been touring, and I've been touring as a solo
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: artist solidly since the eighties, No, I mean the beginning
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: of the nineties. Just all the different forms that my
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: touring life has taken. My solo stuff stuff with Heart,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: a duet with Nancy, the more recent stuff with the
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: band I'm in now with That's like where the money
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: has come from. For god, two decades it was playing live.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. You have these big
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: hits did you see any money? Oh yeah, yep, dump
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: trucks and what do you do with the money? Um?
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: But things houses, cars, And I didn't be really smart
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: with investments until just recently. Uh. But I never ran
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: out of money. I was able to keep it just
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: at a nice level and have the things I wanted,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: but not be all lavish. If you didn't go on
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: the road anymore, you have enough money to get to
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: the end in the lifestyle you want. Yeah, I think
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: so now. I think so now. But you really don't
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: know because you don't know what's what's going to happen.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: You know, whatever money a person is able to put
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: away could be just blown away if something catastrophic happens.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: So there's never a time when you're gonna be safe,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, I think if everything goes well,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: I'll be fine. I won't have to worry. I can
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: just go about my life. So you want to be
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: on the road, I do. Yeah. In fact, when enough
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: time passes that I'm not on the road, I start
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: to really climb the walls and I start to not
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: be able to speak in a fluid way. And it's
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: just that's what singing does for me and you're gonna
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: do this forever till you drop, or at some point
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: you're gonna say you're gonna hang up your shoes. I'm
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: probably gonna do it till I drop, run till my
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: children's children escort me off the stage, and go go out,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: go out there and get your grandma, you know, bring
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: her back. And when you're home. Are you a reader,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: a TV watcher, traveler? How do you fill your time
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: when you're not on the road travel? Dean and I
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: watch a whole lot of a whole lot of stuff HBO, Netflix,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: You know, boy, do we ever, especially living out here
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: in the country, swimming a lot of swimming. So what
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: have you watched on Netflix? You recommend? Um, let's see
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: God Marathy's Town. We're just actually finishing up watching Sopranos
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: because I was on the road when that was out,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: when that was on TV, I never saw it. Best
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: television show ever, totally. We're just finishing it up now
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: for the first time, so that I really love fantastic
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: And the only the only sad thing is that Gandalfoeni
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: passed away. Well, don't tell me the end of the series.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: I'm only talking about a real life he passed away
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: the guy okay, because you also know that they're making
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: a prequel with his son. Oh, so it's gonna so
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: it's gonna come out relatively soon. And do you listen
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: to new music? Do you care about the music scene
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: today or just pretty much self focused? I gotta admit
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty much self focused right now. Um. I think
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: it's it's hard for me to um. I'm such a
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: word person. It's hard for me to get into the
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: thought levels of people who are and thirty, you know.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: So that's the trouble I have with listening to new music.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: It's not that it's bad, it's that I've heard it
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: before and I'm always trying to keep it going out,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: you know. Any regrets? Um Nah? I think that one
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: thing makes the next thing happen. If I had to
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: go back and make all those so us is again,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: those decisions again, they'd be the same. I think one
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: thing I would do it I would be a a
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: little bit more careful, not to be quite as much
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: of a wild partier as I was in the eighties.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: But that's about the only thing that's something that you
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: grow out of, you know. And the two songs you
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: like to sing most m hmm. Right now, I'm enjoying
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: singing black Wing. It's a song I wrote for my
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: new album, and uh, I like singing no quarter okay,
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: And it's been fantastic. Thanks so much for spending your time.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: Obviously you're still in the thick of it making new music,
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: going on the road. Thanks a lot for taking the
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: time with us. It's been really great. Until next time.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: This is Bob left Sex,