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Terminator: Dark Fate · Citizen Frame

• 0:00
  I thought it would bring meaning to your son's death.
• 0:05
  You know what would give meaning to his death?
• 0:12
  It's a Terminator! And we're fighting a Terminator. One that we can't stop.
• 0:20
  Do you believe in fate, Sierra? Or do you believe that we all can change the
• 0:24
  future every second by every choice that we make?
• 0:28
  You chose to change the future.
• 0:32
  You chose to destroy Skynet. You set me free.
• 0:39
  And now, I'm going to help you protect the girl. Because I choose to.
• 0:44
  Music.
• 1:00
  I won't be back. Ah, we're coming to an end of another one of our retrospectives.
• 1:06
  And today we are saying goodbye to Ali and the gang and the T-800.
• 1:14
  We say goodbye to the Terminator franchise with Terminator Dart.
• 1:22
  Chewbacca back again then I see I ain't gonna be honest I mean I'm not jumping
• 1:27
  ahead As I often do No no I'm not but I'm gonna say It's probably a good thing
• 1:33
  That the Terminator franchise is Resting let's just say because Well we'll get to it Alright so,
• 1:41
  This is directed by Tim Miller who did the original Deadpool he created the
• 1:47
  Sonic Films who's got some good street cred,
• 1:50
  and written by James Cameron and David Goyer.
• 1:54
  David Goyer has, you know, fucking hitched out of the park a lot of times.
• 1:58
  He wrote the Batman, Nolan's Batmans. Oh, yeah. He's a great CB.
• 2:03
  Blade, Dark City, The New Hellraiser. So, a guy can really, you know,
• 2:09
  branch out when it comes to genres.
• 2:11
  So, and I watched this. I've watched it a couple times.
• 2:15
  I've been talking about it as the podcast goes. and I read the reviews on it as well.
• 2:20
  And this is getting worse reviews than Genesis and has had horrible,
• 2:24
  horrible rise in the machines.
• 2:26
  And I'm thinking to myself, what the fuck movie are you people watching?
• 2:29
  Because I don't get it. I don't get it. I just don't understand how you piss
• 2:35
  on this movie as bad as these reviews are.
• 2:38
  And yet you have a hard-on for fucking Judgment Night.
• 2:42
  Judgment Night. So, Judgment Day, sorry, Judgment Day.
• 2:46
  And I don't get it. I don't, I see very competent film here.
• 2:51
  It's not fucking epic, but I can see where Cameron was going as a complete trilogy for part one,
• 3:01
  part two, and Dark Fate to be the conclusion because when you watch Dark Fate
• 3:06
  and you watch all three films, this isn't about John Connor's journey.
• 3:10
  This isn't about Sarah Connor's journey. It is actually about the T-800's journey.
• 3:17
  Okay. That's what I've taken out of this film so far.
• 3:21
  Now we'll go over it, but we talked about this Halloween ends and with Indiana Jones.
• 3:28
  And I just don't understand where you guys are seeing your films.
• 3:33
  Are you seeing different versions of films?
• 3:36
  I don't understand it. The hate on salvation.
• 3:40
  The hate i just i don't i don't i i don't get it i'm not saying this is like
• 3:45
  i said again it's not an epic but fuck this is a good fucking time.
• 3:50
  I will, well, just address the first thing we were saying about the hate.
• 3:54
  There is a trend these days for people to over-hate things.
• 3:58
  It becomes like an echo, basically social media, echo chambers on social media.
• 4:02
  And it's seen like the cool thing to do, the shit on the franchises and stuff.
• 4:07
  But at the same time, and this is very important, a lot of the blame does lie
• 4:11
  with the likes of Disney and stuff for basically shitting out bad films, essentially.
• 4:17
  Potentially now regarding what does disney have to do
• 4:20
  what does disney have to do no no i know i said the
• 4:23
  likes of disney i wasn't talking about disney now i'm
• 4:26
  coming to let me finish the likes of the terminator franchise by
• 4:29
  my head well yeah wow kitty's got claws tonight kitty's got claws right regarding
• 4:38
  the terminator franchise definitely nowhere near as bad as genesis But I think
• 4:43
  the problem with this film is so many Terminator fans were so burnt badly by Genesis.
• 4:48
  They were going in with very low expectations anyway.
• 4:52
  Also, there was a whole argy-bargy on Twitter and social media and stuff with
• 4:55
  the director, like, having pops of damn fans of the franchise and stuff like
• 5:00
  that. So that didn't help matters, I have to say.
• 5:02
  And even Tim Miller himself says, although he didn't refer to that specifically,
• 5:06
  he says that basically, he now reckons that basically he blew it.
• 5:11
  With this you know now you know i
• 5:14
  mean there's multiple reasons it's a different world we're living in these days
• 5:16
  it's a different film world you know all fueled by social media but is
• 5:20
  this film as bad as people are making out no it's
• 5:23
  not but the main problem i have with
• 5:26
  it is it's just the same old regurgitated story that we've
• 5:30
  seen and basically every one of the terminator
• 5:33
  films apart from salvation which i will stand by my guns and say is underrated
• 5:38
  and one of the best sequels of the franchise and at least it dared to attempt
• 5:43
  to step outside the box and do something different with the franchise unlike
• 5:46
  all of the rest of them which are just copy and paste and give us the same story,
• 5:51
  Uh, no, I disagree with your review completely. So we'll just dive into it. Okay.
• 5:58
  And see why you're a stupid face. I mean, there are other problems with this
• 6:02
  film, but we will. Oh, don't go. Don't go another 40, 40 minute rant. Don't do it.
• 6:06
  Don't do it. Don't do it. Please. God, I'll give you one doctor who referenced if you don't go on a rant.
• 6:15
  All right. And this one, we got Linda Hamilton back. It's nice to see her.
• 6:19
  Sarah Connor. We got Ali as a T-800, always or Papa.
• 6:25
  Yeah. Danny. Pops. Yeah, that was Pop. Well, we'll get into that one.
• 6:28
  Carl, I think is what his name, what he wants to be called. Carl, yes.
• 6:33
  Mackenzie Davis, who I like, is Grace. Natalie Reyes is Danny, who is.
• 6:37
  Pop. Yeah, we need somebody to cast in there. Gabriel Luna, who I loved, is the Rev-9.
• 6:44
  Fucking badass villain. This fucker is badass. Badass.
• 6:48
  We talked about the Terminators. You give us good villains, I'm on board,
• 6:53
  and you give us one here. So fuck up, you bunch of haters.
• 6:56
  He's all right. He's not that bad. Stop. He's not all right.
• 7:00
  He's got, he's the T. He's the T. No rubber pot. And let me finish.
• 7:05
  Don't fucking interrupt. No.
• 7:07
  Kenny got claws. Yeah. Yeah. This Kenny's got fucking, fucking big claws.
• 7:13
  I'm a tiger. because i'm telling you right
• 7:16
  now the fucking merd9 is a
• 7:19
  mishmash of two of the t800 and the
• 7:22
  t1000 because he can he can jump out of the exoskeleton and the exoskeleton
• 7:27
  can fight and he can fight his liquid man it's fucking awesome i did i do like
• 7:32
  the that effect by the way you can't you can't you just said you hated it no
• 7:36
  no i didn't fuck up you said it was a piece of shit Yeah, you just said it. Right.
• 7:40
  I mean, he's good, and he is effective, and he does a good job.
• 7:44
  But, I mean, you're talking here as if it's like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
• 7:48
  It's not. It's not, but it's fucking badass. It's good, but it's not Robert
• 7:52
  Patrick. And I'm going to tell you, I'm going to, you know, I'm so fucking tired of.
• 7:56
  You know, the actor who plays the T-1000 in Genesis is better. Yeah.
• 8:03
  What? No, no. Yeah, you're talking about you.
• 8:07
  No, you're not. I don't understand what I'm saying at all.
• 8:12
  He's a good fella, but in a stark faith. I've already said it, you know.
• 8:17
  I don't want to talk to you right now. I don't want to talk to you right now.
• 8:20
  You're banned for 30 seconds.
• 8:24
  Send Ben. All right, so I like the beginning where we see the old footage of
• 8:30
  Ciara being interviewed by Silverman. Yes.
• 8:33
  And it brings you back into the old school saying, okay, we're going back to the original formula.
• 8:38
  We're sticking with the original characters. The original timeline?
• 8:42
  The original timeline. So kind of what Halloween did, they just chucked out all the others.
• 8:48
  And so I liked that they were going this direction and I do like how it then transitions,
• 8:54
  to this almost like D-Day invasion of the T-800s coming out of the water and
• 9:00
  you see all these skulls and bones on the beach.
• 9:04
  And then it cuts to Sarah saying, 1998 never happened.
• 9:11
  1997? No, 98. No, no, 1997 was Judgment Day. No, 98.
• 9:18
  No, it was 97, but then we'll go to 1998 and that's when Arnie comes out of the water.
• 9:24
  Oh, okay. Yeah, but she was showing what would have happened.
• 9:27
  Yes. And then we obviously never happened thanks to Myself and John And this
• 9:34
  is one of the Controversial scenes here.
• 9:37
  And I'm going with it I have a little problem Not the CGI, I'm cool with that
• 9:42
  But it's a few years later so Edward Furlong would be a little more agey Would
• 9:46
  be aged a little more I think He pretty much looks like what he did in 92,
• 9:50
  Or 91, whatever it was So it's about 6-7 years later But that's fine But I do like the fact,
• 9:58
  That we're going to write him out
• 10:00
  and the T-800 shows up with a shot off shotgun and blows him to shreds.
• 10:06
  I would say, regarding the killing of John Connor, this is another factor that
• 10:09
  pissed a lot of fans off before this film was even released,
• 10:12
  whenever it was leaked, that John was getting killed basically in the opening scene.
• 10:17
  That pissed a lot of fans off. I actually think that it works in that John's
• 10:23
  character arc had nowhere else to go with the previous films.
• 10:27
  So it sort of makes sense a lot.
• 10:30
  But what, you know, what I would say as well is what I would have had with this
• 10:36
  film is John, fair enough, yeah, B.A.G., get John killed in the first opening
• 10:42
  scene, basically, and then just have...
• 10:45
  Sarah Connor played by the great Linda Hamilton and Arnie
• 10:49
  basically on a head-to-head just the two of them on
• 10:52
  their own what didn't need what do you call it Dan McKenzie what
• 10:55
  didn't need the young Latino actress well just
• 10:58
  it would have been absolutely kick-ass and superb if it had and if they had
• 11:03
  played it really gritty like the original completely in the tone of the original
• 11:06
  and just have a badass Sarah Connor and a badass Arnie basically going head-to-head
• 11:11
  like a road film and chasing each other over the place and shooting,
• 11:16
  blowing the shit out of each other. That would have been amazing.
• 11:18
  I liked the Mackenzie character, Grace. I liked her a lot, actually.
• 11:23
  She can act. She's very good in this. Mackenzie Davis, I think her name was.
• 11:27
  Yes, she can act. And I really liked her. I didn't like Danny.
• 11:29
  But the reason they killed John was because you needed another savior for the
• 11:34
  new battle and that's who Danny is in the future.
• 11:37
  The only problem is she's just not believable. You needed somebody like Melissa
• 11:42
  Barrera, who was in the Scream films recently, and we just talked about her, and Abigail.
• 11:46
  She would have been good if you wanted that Hispanic.
• 11:50
  Or even remove her and put the brother back in. That was played by Diego Luna.
• 11:55
  No, Diego Bonato or something.
• 11:58
  He's a nice little actor. He's been around for a bit. He could have played that
• 12:02
  part. Or have the savior of the human race be in Sarah Connor.
• 12:06
  Yes, he's a bit older, but so what? it i mean going
• 12:09
  by this film she's clearly still got it you know linda hamilton as
• 12:12
  well obviously so are you just had sir connor
• 12:15
  being the savior of the human race for john you
• 12:18
  know after john gets basically killed by the terminator in the first scene yeah
• 12:23
  but i think is like you say completely you just can't bat it's like amelia clark
• 12:29
  as sir connor in genesis you just there's a particular scene where it's like
• 12:33
  a flash forward to the future where you see her like getting everybody going,
• 12:37
  the future sort of survivors, and it's completely unbelievable.
• 12:42
  You can't take it serious.
• 12:44
  Yeah, no, I mean, like I said, she's not too believable. But when the film starts
• 12:48
  out, we meet her family and so forth.
• 12:50
  And from that opening sequence all the way to the chase scene in the streets
• 13:00
  with, he's got the bulldozer.
• 13:02
  It's a very impressive. They got their little truck. It's fucking awesome.
• 13:06
  I mean, it doesn't stop to the fighting in the factory.
• 13:09
  It's probably the best scene in the film. It's one of them The playing scene's
• 13:14
  up there for me too But it's just It doesn't stop It's just non-stop And this
• 13:20
  thing is a fucking machine This thing's a beast And I like her,
• 13:25
  Grace And how she's still emotionless But she does have emotion Because technically
• 13:32
  she's still human She's augmented She's augmented super soldier But this whole
• 13:38
  fight sequence Lasts what,
• 13:39
  15-20 minutes? It just doesn't stop.
• 13:42
  And no CG. All these cars are fucked. This bulldog is just crashing through these cars.
• 13:48
  And then it just...
• 13:51
  Even the way the moves and the choreography of the fight in the factory,
• 13:55
  when she shows up to take him down and how she, how she. The face correct?
• 14:00
  Yeah. And these, these hands have become these swords are pretty much his weapon
• 14:06
  of choice and how she crushes him in the factory with that little crusher thing, whatever it was.
• 14:12
  It just, just wouldn't stop. stop
• 14:15
  and what i like about her is they even
• 14:19
  tweaked that line come with me if you want to live yeah she
• 14:22
  goes like come with me or you're dead in the next 30
• 14:25
  seconds yes yes so i like how they tweaked that made her make that line her
• 14:29
  own but you this first 20 minutes of this film i'm in 100 i'm not going anywhere
• 14:36
  i i have to be honest and say that i did very much enjoy it as well and And
• 14:40
  it's pretty, it's edgy and gritty.
• 14:43
  And it's a great sequence. It's the best in the film.
• 14:46
  Yeah, it is. I mean, when she's throwing the poles at him from the back of the
• 14:50
  truck and the poles are going through and then he can use the poles to transfer his ecto,
• 14:55
  he can use that metal part to absorb onto them and just leave his ectoskeleton in the car.
• 15:04
  And then the ectoskeleton comes out to fight and they got the ectoskeleton and
• 15:08
  then he got him. and they're like, oh, fuck, we're dead.
• 15:11
  And then in comes Linda Hamilton with the fucking awesome bazooka grenade gun shit.
• 15:16
  Badass as she is, just blowing the fuck out of everything. I mean,
• 15:20
  fuck. Linda Hamilton. And you killed the brother.
• 15:24
  Didn't see that one because, like I mentioned, Diego Bonato,
• 15:27
  I'm butchering that, he's actually an actor that people know.
• 15:32
  So to kill him off in the very first 20 minutes is, you know, didn't see it coming.
• 15:38
  So, and I like that because then it's what we weren't getting,
• 15:43
  especially with Genesis, is peril.
• 15:45
  Well, I would say as well, I would just add on to that, that Linda Hamilton
• 15:50
  is by far the best actor here.
• 15:53
  I think Danny, no. Danny's terrible.
• 15:56
  I think Arnie's, Arnie, I like Arnie in this one.
• 16:00
  We'll discuss it when we get to him.
• 16:03
  But I think you're, that's not fair. I think Mackenzie, if it was just,
• 16:08
  because the T-800 already doesn't show up for a while, but half the film.
• 16:12
  Yeah, I know. And it's really Linda Hamilton's, because he's top billing.
• 16:16
  Is she the star of the film? It's her film.
• 16:19
  I would like to have seen, maybe you're right, remove Danny and have Grace there.
• 16:25
  So if you had Linda Hamilton and Grace's girl power thing, that would have worked
• 16:29
  for me, because these two are the best thing in the film. Well,
• 16:32
  I would say as well, there's a sort of elephant in the room that we're not really addressing.
• 16:37
  And i don't want to get super sort of film school nerdy
• 16:40
  but there is overt political commentary here
• 16:43
  this film was made shortly after
• 16:47
  the whole me too thing and i'm not saying anything i'm just
• 16:50
  i'm not saying it is right or wrong i'm just saying it is
• 16:53
  a thing in this film but after the whole me too thing
• 16:56
  it was made shortly after that all come out
• 16:59
  about harvey weinstein and stuff so this is
• 17:01
  very much a female centric film
• 17:05
  you know a feminist film you know and even when arnie comes into it so the brother
• 17:10
  was always going to get killed off just like john connor because basically they're
• 17:13
  men you know they're male heroes or potential male heroes but also later on
• 17:17
  when arnie comes into it even his character carl his job and i'm getting super sort of film school
• 17:25
  student nerdy here, but his character, his job is a draper, which sounds very close to raper.
• 17:32
  So there's a lot of... Oh, come on, dude.
• 17:36
  You're just reading this shit on some fucking nerd fucking TikTok site.
• 17:41
  No, no, not at all. That's stupid as shit.
• 17:43
  I know the way these writers' minds work. Oh, come on, God.
• 17:47
  I'm serious. I haven't finished. Stupid.
• 17:52
  I haven't finished. also there oh great he hasn't
• 17:55
  finished obviously there is a lot of political subtext here
• 17:59
  about the sort of the proposed wall in mexico from trump that never happened
• 18:05
  but again i'm not saying these things are right or wrong i'm just saying they
• 18:09
  are there is a lot of political overt subtext here but that you know i'm just
• 18:14
  i'm just stating it as a as a sort of here it's just a frame,
• 18:19
  My opinion or Trevor's opinion doesn't mean I take in what Trevor says, what his opinion is.
• 18:27
  Yes, he wants to be clearly a sexist pig. I understand that. No, not at all.
• 18:31
  No, no, no, no, that's okay. You're a sexist pig. No, let's just move on.
• 18:35
  Let's just move on. Not at all.
• 18:38
  Okay. I understand it as a thing. No, listen up. It's okay. It's okay.
• 18:42
  You want the testosterone-filled predator film.
• 18:46
  God forbid you have two strong female leads that's okay no that's okay you're a sexist we'll move on.
• 18:56
  I think linda hamilton's great no okay forget it it's over right go ahead i'll
• 19:01
  make sure i have to take both these actresses well we have then they'll go wow
• 19:06
  and i was gonna buy the u.s the effect doesn't go shut up no no but we can't
• 19:13
  avoid these things you know what i mean If we're going to give proper,
• 19:16
  honest, and concise, and in-depth...
• 19:18
  I think, to me, it's petty.
• 19:21
  No, but it's worth mentioning. No, no, it's not. Why?
• 19:25
  Because it's a part of the film? The film works, though. Yeah,
• 19:29
  well... No one... I'll speak to somebody.
• 19:31
  Yeah, but it's... They work. Linda Hamilton and Mackenzie, the ones you said
• 19:36
  shouldn't be in it because they're women.
• 19:38
  I did not say that. They make the film. So your point's moot to me.
• 19:47
  No, but I'm just saying. And if it's modernized, Raper, give me a fucking break.
• 19:52
  In fact, it's quite the opposite, because he is the stay-at-home dad.
• 19:58
  Yes, I'm not saying that that's what they're saying Arnie's character is,
• 20:02
  but it's a sort of, it's a commentary on men and also the fact of what he's done to John.
• 20:09
  He's basically, you know, the way basically Linda Hamilton's sort of feels about
• 20:15
  him. You know, we've destroyed our life, that sort of thing.
• 20:17
  So there's a lot of... Yeah, but that works.
• 20:20
  And that's what I want to get to. I know what I'm saying.
• 20:23
  This is why I think Cameron got involved, wrote this, because I think he wanted...
• 20:28
  This arc is Arnie's journey.
• 20:31
  And I really do believe that. And we'll get to that.
• 20:34
  Because his character, And despite it being a robot, he talks about it.
• 20:39
  He starts growing a conscience and he understands what he did was wrong.
• 20:44
  And he knows he's going to, the day is going to come where he has to self-sacrifice, which he does.
• 20:50
  It's a, despite the silliness of it, when you think about it,
• 20:54
  you talk about it, it's silly.
• 20:55
  Yes, it is. It is. But he fucking sells it. I don't care.
• 20:59
  No, Arnie's performance is great. We have this argument all the time. Let me finish.
• 21:03
  Listen, I let you in your sexist rant. Let me finish.
• 21:09
  Arnie can fucking act. And you never said, you always said he can't. He can.
• 21:15
  He's got better over the years. No, stop. You say that all the time.
• 21:18
  You say that all the time.
• 21:20
  Arnie is really upset with you right now. He told me.
• 21:23
  Arnie, I would like to hear you say it, Arnie.
• 21:27
  Arnie, his performance here is fine. So it is. No, it's not.
• 21:32
  It's his best performance in a Terminator film.
• 21:34
  No, the first one is to me. Come on. Anyone can do that.
• 21:39
  Not anyone. I couldn't do it. Imagine me as a Terminator. Oh,
• 21:42
  Jesus Christ. That'd be the worst fucking film ever.
• 21:45
  Come on back to see if Citizen Freedom from Kieran fucking up a podcast.
• 21:50
  Yeah. Send me back in time.
• 21:53
  That'd be a better Kyle Reese, actually. So, Wood. Let's jump back into this.
• 21:59
  I apologize to our listening audience. I didn't know Trevor felt that way. I don't know.
• 22:05
  Again, like I said, I would just like to underline And I'm not saying it's a
• 22:09
  right or wrong thing, but it is in this film.
• 22:11
  Whether people like it or not, it's just a thing. So I do like the flashback.
• 22:17
  I mean, we talked about this. Again, I don't think...
• 22:22
  You seem to be on board with the film so far. And the one thing the Terminators
• 22:25
  were missing was grittiness.
• 22:27
  And they really do show that, especially with the McKenzie. That's why she's
• 22:31
  a necessity in this because, yeah, you make her a woman.
• 22:35
  So right there, the audience is going to be more, you know, she's more vulnerable.
• 22:40
  That's not sexist. That's just, you proceed, you put a woman in peril.
• 22:45
  You're more going to be intensified for that character.
• 22:48
  So here she is, you see this war scene, and great little grenades being popped
• 22:54
  in by these little Terminators, octopuses, whatever the fuck they were. Yeah. Really cool.
• 22:59
  And she obviously gets blown up by one and it's how she begs for them to augment
• 23:04
  her. I need to be augmented.
• 23:06
  It's dark. It's bloody. Another thing about this film, it's grittier as in the violence.
• 23:11
  The violence is up a bit. Not much, but it's still up to it.
• 23:15
  Well, certainly a lot more from the likes of Genesis.
• 23:18
  Genesis, even Salvation, and definitely from rise of
• 23:21
  the machines so i don't get why these three are getting
• 23:24
  better reviews than this one i still don't get it i think
• 23:27
  this is definitely better than genesis i mean
• 23:30
  like you know 100 better than genesis but for i would say it's yeah but i would
• 23:36
  say it's better than three but for me i think that for salvation is better than
• 23:42
  this one because it goes outside the box and tries to do something different
• 23:45
  that mainly yeah the one of the main issues i have with this film, actually,
• 23:50
  is not really a lot of the stuff we're talking about, but mostly the fact that
• 23:54
  it's just the same story regurgitated, and that it's the same copy and paste from 1, 2,
• 24:00
  3, and 5, you know? Well, they are. That's the story.
• 24:04
  Salvation's not. But yes. I mean, yeah, it's a prequel. I mean,
• 24:07
  it's going to be a little different, of course. It's going to, I mean, you know, but...
• 24:13
  I like the fact where you find out you get tired of these one line fixes,
• 24:18
  but they quickly rectify when Danny asked, how do you know where we were?
• 24:24
  And Linda Hammond goes, well, I'm receiving these text messages.
• 24:27
  I've been receiving them for the past quite a few years now when a Terminator
• 24:32
  is going to land and I will be there to confront them.
• 24:35
  I actually would like to see all those text messages and her kicking ass.
• 24:39
  That would be kind of cool. Or Arnie like sitting in bed, you know, texting, you know?
• 24:43
  Again i have a lot of questions here how does
• 24:47
  arnie know when a terminator is arriving or when a terminator is
• 24:49
  in the area is he hunting them as well also you know
• 24:53
  how does a terminator grow a conscience that doesn't make sense there's no there's
• 24:58
  no there isn't even a one-line fix for that you know it's just like oh the only
• 25:01
  thing no no he does talk about that no i mean sarah says that too she said exactly
• 25:06
  what you says but they do kind of address it he does say when i met
• 25:12
  his friend and helped raise her son because he was programmed to do the one killing.
• 25:19
  That's it. That was his program. He has done his job and it was a one-way ticket.
• 25:24
  So he said he had to learn to adapt to the surroundings and he found this woman
• 25:29
  in need and had, I believe, an abusive husband and he helped raise the son. So, and...
• 25:36
  He doesn't have a conscience, but I don't think it's a conscience.
• 25:41
  He's just more aware of how it works. No, I don't think he's there. He's programmed.
• 25:49
  He's learning as he goes. He was supposed to be a one-trip pony. That's it. And blah.
• 25:55
  But what they didn't realize was that him being on the planet so much longer
• 26:00
  than he was that they didn't realize that the T-800 could adapt.
• 26:05
  That i think it would be better and you got to realize they did
• 26:08
  this they did this with judgment
• 26:12
  day i i yes i know that there but i think
• 26:14
  it would have served the audience better if they
• 26:17
  had have explained it more like we're talking about it now and that
• 26:21
  they could have said i think they do okay i don't
• 26:24
  i you know what and that's another thing i like about it to piggyback on
• 26:27
  what you just said the one thing this film definitely does
• 26:29
  right that part two didn't get it right they fucking
• 26:32
  went on for 40 minutes talking about oh i love
• 26:35
  my my father my father figure and don't hurt
• 26:38
  people here they data dumped
• 26:41
  real quick and moved on yeah well there's
• 26:44
  no there actually is some corny
• 26:47
  humor in here but but it's very subtly done you know
• 26:50
  what i mean yeah there's none of the doctor that hand or
• 26:53
  any of that nonsense and i love the fact when arnie's gonna
• 26:56
  self-sacrifice the first time you think he's not gonna i won't
• 26:59
  be back you know yeah that that's just
• 27:02
  that's actually the baseline in the film yeah i'm sure that's actually
• 27:05
  quite it's actually quite sad and oh yes when you think about that line he says
• 27:10
  it that's arnold schwarzenegger saying i know back and it is really him saying
• 27:16
  goodbye to the action genre yes exactly there's a poignancy to it and also it
• 27:21
  also obviously sort of foreshadows his.
• 27:24
  Obvious sort of self-sacrifice later on, you know, for John, you know.
• 27:30
  Now I do like the story, how they changed it a bit. It's no longer Skynet.
• 27:35
  And that's how this AI program, Legion, I think it was called. Legion, yeah.
• 27:41
  And, and she tells, Grace tells the story how they shut down all the electronics
• 27:46
  and all the lights, you know, all the power.
• 27:49
  So we were growing, we, we had no power and no means of communication.
• 27:54
  And then the nukes on day two, day three, the war, and then the cleansing where
• 28:01
  they just started wiping out humans.
• 28:03
  And they show that. that again i i
• 28:06
  just i i think i i mean i i don't know i'm positive
• 28:10
  trevor i'm getting through to you that this is a lot better film
• 28:13
  well and you you initially just watched because as
• 28:16
  i'm talking about it i'm even liking it more no i hope people listen to this
• 28:20
  podcast all joking aside and i make jokes and we have a good laugh but the end
• 28:25
  of the day as i'm discussing this with you right now i think it's a much better
• 28:29
  fucking film i hope people do watch it again and go okay maybe there There was
• 28:33
  at least something here.
• 28:34
  It's nowhere near as bad as some people are making out. I would definitely say that.
• 28:37
  And also, just going back to the Legion thing, we have seen Legion done before
• 28:42
  in the previous film. Legion is basically just Genesis.
• 28:44
  But here, it is done much better than that nonsense that we had with Matthew
• 28:49
  Smith in the previous film. You know?
• 28:52
  Yeah, 100%. It's a lot more effective here. So it is.
• 28:55
  And yes, there is a lot of very strong points about this film. But there is stuff.
• 29:00
  Maybe I'm being overly nitpicky. You are. I think that's fine.
• 29:06
  But the problem is, I think you're being fooled. And I think that's what the
• 29:10
  average viewer is. You kind of...
• 29:13
  You kind of said in the beginning of the podcast where people have already prejudged
• 29:18
  this. Same thing with Indiana Jones.
• 29:20
  So they're going to go in that this is going to suck. And despite them seeing
• 29:24
  something a lot better, but they're not really getting it.
• 29:28
  Yeah. Because they don't want to. They're being affected by the echo chambers.
• 29:32
  Yes. No, no. I get what you're saying. And I think to a certain extent,
• 29:36
  everyone is affected by what you put
• 29:39
  in and what you watch and what you you know listen
• 29:42
  to on you know social media and stuff and you know i think that's
• 29:45
  just that's just something that can't be avoided by everyone but the
• 29:48
  trick is the trick is is to sort of as best
• 29:51
  as you can to put all that to the side and go
• 29:54
  into a film or a book or whatever it is a tv show and
• 29:57
  just be a total independent thinker and be
• 30:00
  on we'll bring all our own shit to things you know our own experiences our
• 30:03
  own sort of likes and dislikes to reviews you
• 30:07
  know you know what i mean that's just the nature of these things in our
• 30:09
  own sort of life experience but you know
• 30:12
  the trick is definitely to to as best as we possibly
• 30:15
  can just to be completely independent and critical thinking
• 30:18
  but also far yeah and i think the fair is a perfect word i think people need
• 30:22
  to be more fair with this yeah there's nowhere near as bad as people are making
• 30:26
  out i love i love when the rev seven i love i love the hunt and how we how we
• 30:33
  actually see how he gets to them each time they escape.
• 30:36
  And I love the drone scene when they're in the, like you mentioned the, the PC border patrol.
• 30:42
  I love that scene. Yeah. And yeah.
• 30:46
  There's a great shot with the Rev-7s looking at the radar. He just got done killing four people.
• 30:53
  He killed so many people on this. It's awesome. Well, he's also very much a
• 30:58
  very much 21st century advanced Terminator in that he can do all sorts of shit
• 31:02
  that Arnie and stuff couldn't do.
• 31:04
  It's almost like what they did was, remember we talked about the one cool thing.
• 31:08
  I liked the one thing about the sexy T-X-y.
• 31:13
  Yeah. from she could plug into computers and do this and this,
• 31:17
  he can do all this shit too.
• 31:19
  It's almost a blend of every Terminator we've met.
• 31:23
  But he's also, yes, but he's also got a sneaky personality where he can trick people and stuff,
• 31:27
  whereas Terminators before, yes, they could mimic voices and stuff and,
• 31:31
  you know, pretend to be like fucking Sir Connor's mother and the likes or John
• 31:35
  Connor, but this is much more there's much more thought getting into it by the Terminator.
• 31:40
  I like the scene where in the beginning where he goes to see the father.
• 31:45
  Yeah. To ask him where Danny is. And then we see the father in the factory.
• 31:50
  And then McKenzie says, that's not your father. Why? Because in order for him
• 31:53
  to take form of your father, your father would have to be dead.
• 31:56
  Yeah. So that was a good line too. Well, that's also a call back to the first
• 32:00
  two where, I mean, the first one where Kyle Reese says to Serta, your mother is dead.
• 32:05
  And also then in the second one where Arnie says to John Connor,
• 32:08
  it goes, your foster parents are dead.
• 32:10
  You know, whenever he's asking for the dog. So that's a call back to that.
• 32:14
  Yeah. Again, that's probably Cameron peppering in some of his original stuff
• 32:19
  in there. A lot of people know that,
• 32:23
  I'm back to do this and hopefully end the story right.
• 32:26
  But yeah, I do like the drone segment a lot and the showers talk about when
• 32:32
  the Rev-7 is looking at it and you see he's looking just right into the PC and
• 32:36
  we see it into his eye and you see the redness of the eye and then the eye,
• 32:39
  we pan back, we're actually looking at the drone he's controlling.
• 32:42
  It's a great little, you know, quick cutaway.
• 32:46
  And then you cut to, you just have all these action scenes and they're so,
• 32:51
  there's not a a lull there there's a there's a
• 32:53
  little lull here and there that you have to have data dump but it's
• 32:57
  just each scene there's something they just they just they just
• 33:00
  add something different they don't copy a pace a lot each
• 33:03
  action scene brings its own a game and i
• 33:06
  think that's another thing i really like about it it's not just car chases
• 33:09
  car chases you had that in the beginning you're not topping that
• 33:12
  we'll get the plane one coming up next but this one now you're
• 33:16
  in a they're in a detainee camp and she's
• 33:20
  being poked and prodded and they're looking underneath her skin
• 33:23
  and they can see that she's got some metal in there it's it's actually
• 33:25
  quite creepy they're examining her i would
• 33:28
  say that this film certainly compared to the sequel certainly three and five
• 33:34
  at my very least it's much better paced and that we yes we'll have the big action
• 33:39
  set pieces and stuff but there's also those sequences where it's time to catch
• 33:44
  your breath and get to know the characters a bit better and stuff,
• 33:46
  especially when Arnie comes into it.
• 33:48
  And there's nice little things where Mackenzie Davis, the best thing she can
• 33:53
  do at this point is to free the Mexicans, the detainees.
• 34:00
  Yeah. Because that will cause chaos.
• 34:03
  Yeah, to cause chaos. And then the Rev 7 jumps on top of the cages and starts
• 34:06
  running and he starts just gutting all these soldiers and-
• 34:12
  There is one little, I mean, I'm praising it, but it's got issues, don't get me wrong.
• 34:17
  And it's the scene where they get to the cop, they're running away,
• 34:21
  and they go to the chopper, right?
• 34:23
  And there's Linda Hamilton, oh, guys, wait for me. Like, where you come from?
• 34:27
  I thought that was a little convenient. Well, yes, I know that there,
• 34:31
  but yeah, I did like how Mackenzie is basically saying, you know,
• 34:36
  basically, fuck you, Linda Hamilton.
• 34:38
  I mean, we're having a time. The most important thing here is saving Danny.
• 34:41
  So she wants to leave her behind, but it's actually Danny that says no and sort
• 34:45
  of the stop and sort of get Linda Hamilton back.
• 34:48
  Because at this point, basically Mackenzie and Sir Connor don't get on still.
• 34:53
  Yeah, I think that's the whole point. And then you also had to show why Danny is so important.
• 34:59
  She's not going to leave anyone behind.
• 35:02
  But we do find out that daddy's not the reason, the reason they want her dead
• 35:06
  is her baby is going to be the reason they want her dead. because it's the baby
• 35:10
  that becomes this pioneer or whatever. Is it not Dany herself?
• 35:14
  No. No, no, no, no. That was the Red Herring.
• 35:19
  The Red Herring is that when Sir O'Connor said, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 35:23
  don't tell me your son's going to be the saviour and all this here. Oh, that's right.
• 35:26
  Yeah, I flipped him. It's a Red Herring. It's right. She is the saviour.
• 35:30
  It's her herself because that's why you get the flash forward scene where she's
• 35:33
  leading the troops. Completely unconvincing.
• 35:36
  Yeah, when she saves –.
• 35:40
  Grace, that's why she's willing to go because she saved Grace when she was a
• 35:43
  little kid. From the scavengers.
• 35:45
  From the scavengers. That whole speech she gives was like, oh, fuck off.
• 35:48
  She's too small and too, she has no presence. You know what I mean? Here's the problem.
• 35:52
  I'm surprised they didn't cast somebody a little more, I don't want to say manly,
• 35:58
  but a little more tomboyish.
• 36:01
  With more presence. Somebody even like a younger Juliette Lewis or something.
• 36:06
  Yeah, the problem I have with it is,
• 36:09
  she's built and she acts
• 36:12
  way too much like amelia clark
• 36:15
  yeah i know i know it's exactly what it what she
• 36:18
  reminded me of amelia clark was sort of connor and saying
• 36:21
  that there what i would say john connor in the second terminator terminator
• 36:27
  2 is a whiny little dickhead and annoying teens you're saying what this little
• 36:32
  shit's going to be like the leader of humanity but the problem here is that with the flashback,
• 36:38
  sorry, the flash forward in Terminator 2, you see him, he's this grizzled sort of warrior.
• 36:43
  Here, whenever you see Dany leading the troops, you just can't bat because she's
• 36:48
  no real presence or physique. You know?
• 36:51
  Yeah, that's true. She is the downfall of some of this film.
• 36:56
  So we'll be already, we'll go over it again, talked about how he's become,
• 37:01
  kind of understands why he's there. Yeah.
• 37:05
  Again, this is another thing. I want badass Arnie in every single Terminator
• 37:10
  film, and I'm sick. It's just a broken record. You do.
• 37:13
  I know. You do. Once he leaves this, once he, that's my point.
• 37:17
  Once you do the Dated Dump sappy crap, it's over.
• 37:20
  He's there to self-sacrifice. He's there to kick everyone's ass.
• 37:23
  Yes, I know what that is, but I want evil Arnie. I want Arnie from the first
• 37:27
  one. I want Arnie being a bastard. But that dude then-
• 37:31
  you should hate the terminators because now the terminator of original is a
• 37:36
  standalone that these, there's more of these now than there is that terminator.
• 37:40
  So you got to either go with it or not at this point, you're not getting that
• 37:44
  already. There's no choice. There's no choice. You get no choice.
• 37:47
  So you either get on board or you don't, you know, but there's some good stuff.
• 37:51
  Like, I mean, I like, we talked about how there's some humor and it's just like,
• 37:55
  why is she, does she know about you?
• 37:57
  And she goes, it's, uh, how do you, you know, pretty much, how do you fuck?
• 38:01
  And he's like we don't have that kind of relationship i'm reliable
• 38:04
  i'm a good listener and i'm extremely funny
• 38:08
  yeah well that's the sort of
• 38:10
  that's the sort of humor but it's more subtly done as opposed
• 38:13
  to you know um now i want you to meet you know when in the last film and all
• 38:19
  that nonsense with talk to the hand and the elton john glasses and three so
• 38:23
  you know this is better i know exactly done yeah exactly deadpan yeah that's
• 38:29
  it and then you move on and then what What I liked also about it was Sarah.
• 38:32
  Sarah was going to kill him and he wasn't going to fight back. He understood that.
• 38:37
  I do like when she suits him and he's like, how am I supposed to explain this?
• 38:41
  Yeah, yeah. Hold on to this shirt.
• 38:42
  But I would say that Linda Hamilton totally sells these scenes.
• 38:47
  Yeah, and she doesn't really say it, but you can see from her face.
• 38:52
  That's where she can act. She wants to kill him, but she can't because she knows he needs him.
• 38:57
  Yeah, because Linda Hamilton can act. and even whenever it's not with dialogue,
• 39:01
  without dialogue, unlike the last one.
• 39:05
  And that's why I give, yeah, exactly. And that's why I also give Mackenzie Davis
• 39:10
  props because she's almost like a younger Linda Hamilton.
• 39:15
  She's almost could have played, if they ever remade Terminator,
• 39:18
  she could play Sarah Connor.
• 39:19
  And she is very good in the role. She can act Mackenzie Davis. Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:27
  Yeah, so he says goodbye to the family. I was like, aw. I know.
• 39:33
  It's annoying some who's hardly in it. Now we come to the cargo plane,
• 39:39
  the chopper fighting the cargo plane, to the plane fighting the cargo plane.
• 39:43
  This is another. I mean, it's like planes, trains, animal vehicles.
• 39:47
  Oh, yeah. I mean, it's the A-team. It becomes the A-team at this point.
• 39:52
  It does. But you know what? Fucking good.
• 39:55
  No, no way. I mean, this is fun stuff.
• 39:58
  Yeah, no, I'm not going to add that. And, you know, I'm an A-Team fan,
• 40:02
  so it's big budget A-Team. So it is, and that's fine by me, you know?
• 40:08
  Like when the Rev-9 falls from the sky, lands in the guy's shed,
• 40:14
  smashes and destroys it, and he walks out. Sorry about your shed.
• 40:17
  Well, that's more like the sort of stuff you would have got from Arnie in the
• 40:21
  previous films. Or Robert Patrick. Well, Robert Patrick would have done that.
• 40:25
  Don't know. Well, yeah, Robert Patrick would have got away with that, yeah.
• 40:28
  Like when he's dressed up as the marshal and he walks up and he's talking to
• 40:32
  the military guys. Say, do you know where I can get a chopper?
• 40:37
  The best one with Robert Patrick is actually whenever he sees,
• 40:41
  he just gives a glance to a mannequin, you know, and it's like.
• 40:45
  Oh, yeah, the silver mannequin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:48
  That's a proper like subtle humor. Done well, deadpan humor.
• 40:51
  I think Robert Patrick's version, he did a slightly better job.
• 40:58
  And the only reason I say that is because what you just said,
• 41:01
  Robert Patrick didn't have to speak.
• 41:03
  He can just look at you and look at what he's doing and you can already know what he's thinking.
• 41:08
  This guy, his lines are very good, but he talks more in this.
• 41:14
  So where the T-800, it's almost more like a mime.
• 41:18
  And so I thought so I think Robert Patrick had a harder role to play and he
• 41:26
  played it better I think and plus he was the original,
• 41:29
  they're both different characters kind of but yeah you're not wrong he was the
• 41:33
  original so he'd be the most memorable of the sort of more advanced Terminators
• 41:37
  and you know I don't know much about this guy who's playing it but I guess he
• 41:40
  does a solid enough job but for me Robert Patrick,
• 41:45
  based on only seeing this film him with this new guy robert patrick is a better
• 41:51
  actor you know so but i haven't seen much of this yeah this guy's new you can't
• 41:56
  really you can't really judge him yeah that's not fair but yeah but i hear what you're saying.
• 42:01
  But when both planes collide, they have to take the parachutes.
• 42:04
  She's got the Humvee, and she's hanging off the Humvee.
• 42:06
  Then they land on the dam, and then they're falling off the dam.
• 42:09
  Although this was full on 18. And the attorney's fighting underneath the water. It's awesome.
• 42:14
  I don't know. I mean, this is whenever it becomes like the proper popcorn stuff.
• 42:18
  You know what I mean? It's a summer blockbuster action film, and that's okay. Yeah.
• 42:22
  You know? And they do a very solid job of all of that as well.
• 42:25
  And they finally have a legit.
• 42:29
  You know, we get sick of, oh, Thornwood, let's melt them. Oh, he's dead.
• 42:32
  But this one, they finally figured out we have to get him removed from the ectoskeleton
• 42:38
  because if we can get him removed from the ectoskeleton, all we have to do is
• 42:41
  kill the ectoskeleton. Yeah. That's his source.
• 42:46
  And I love the fact when they put him in this cylinder thing.
• 42:52
  Yeah. And they throw him in there and they're tearing his ectoskeleton apart.
• 42:56
  It's fucking creepy. It almost looks human-like. and
• 43:00
  it was it's just fucking cool yeah
• 43:04
  i mean so much better than put lava on them or whatever well that doesn't play
• 43:10
  it out you know what i mean basically every terminator since you know you know
• 43:14
  but the two i think the two pour a bit of lava and shit on them as well and
• 43:18
  the freeze them and stuff um well those are sort of nods back to the you know exactly exactly,
• 43:23
  you know there's some courtiness when she's like you gotta wake up you gotta
• 43:28
  wait because Because Arnie's fucking primal is dead at this point.
• 43:31
  Well, obviously, he won't wake up. And then she goes, wake up, Carl.
• 43:34
  And he's like, I'm Carl. Oh, my God, here we go. No, this is getting.
• 43:38
  I have grown a conscience. Yeah.
• 43:41
  And then his final line is corny and pure cheesy. And it's like something you would have expected.
• 43:46
  And the second one, you know, it's right up there with Hasta La Vista,
• 43:49
  baby. It's for John, you know.
• 43:53
  And, but I went with that. Even though I do, the hokiness got a little too much
• 43:57
  there. I'd be disappointed.
• 43:59
  Exactly, you know what? You did. You're right. You expected it.
• 44:02
  But the flip side of that coin, Grace dies.
• 44:07
  And that was a more effective death. It's the darker? What's darker?
• 44:12
  Yes, well, she's human. Yes. But you see a big hole in her throat.
• 44:18
  And she tells her, you've got to take my power supply and stick it to him to
• 44:22
  kill him. What's the sound effect?
• 44:24
  Now, this is where this young actress did it a little better.
• 44:28
  Or Danny, the Danny character, where she finally has to kill her and take out the power supply.
• 44:35
  Now, when Arnie takes the power supply, he sticks it to the dude, the Rev,
• 44:41
  His death was effective too, because his was slow death.
• 44:46
  It was just seeing him surging and melting and you eating and he's a sitting
• 44:53
  there and he's looking at them and he, and there's a great shot again.
• 44:58
  Nothing said it's Sarah and she just sits there watching him die.
• 45:03
  And you can see her almost want to cry for him.
• 45:08
  Because she understands what he
• 45:11
  was trying to tell her I mean that is fucking
• 45:14
  good right there and good acting the acting
• 45:18
  totally sells it by Hamilton and Arnie does that that's Arnie
• 45:21
  doing that too I know but Hamilton as well so it is like
• 45:25
  I said at the beginning of this podcast
• 45:28
  I would have loved for this film to
• 45:31
  be just a flipping cat and mouse between sir connor
• 45:35
  and arnie's terminator arnie's terminator not being a
• 45:37
  good guy being a fucking killer like you know you
• 45:40
  just you just rewrite in the whole film i mean it's stupid what's the
• 45:43
  point of review you were reviewing this film i just thinking about oh
• 45:46
  i i wanted uh okay i wanted a bunch of fucking robot
• 45:49
  monkeys so if i'm not getting that i hate it no i mean there's no point you
• 45:55
  reviewing this my point no no my point is my point is that's a completely different
• 45:59
  film I'm discussing this scene where I am saying it just goes to prove the acting
• 46:05
  and dramatic weight that both, especially Linda Hamilton,
• 46:09
  but also Arnie have. That's the point I'm making.
• 46:11
  You weren't making that. You just said something about you wanted to see just
• 46:15
  him and her fighting cat and mouse.
• 46:17
  I had nothing to do with this scene. Cameron should have hired me.
• 46:20
  You know, Cameron would have fucking ended his career.
• 46:24
  What happened? Was it budgetary reasons? Was it you clashing with producers?
• 46:28
  No, it was Trevor. It was definitely Trevor.
• 46:31
  He came back in time from Belfast, a war-torn, apocalyptic Belfast for the future.
• 46:38
  He wanted to cast all the ex-Doctor Whos. It was fucking annoying.
• 46:42
  He wanted to bring Matthew Smith back.
• 46:45
  And the funny thing is, we'll bring up Doctor Who. You're welcome. Yeah, no problem.
• 46:49
  Now, we're going to end with this retrospective, okay? And then guess what we also get?
• 46:54
  Dun-dun-dun-dun. Yep. The beginning and the end.
• 46:59
  Yeah, I got my Dele-de-de-de,
• 47:02
  So there you go, we're ending with the Terminator. No, no, no,
• 47:04
  no, no. I would like to discuss something else. Oh, here we go. Fuck me sideways.
• 47:08
  The Sir Connor Chronicles, the spin-off TV series.
• 47:12
  Oh, yes. I watched that. It's too bad it got canceled because I was getting
• 47:15
  into it. I actually enjoyed it.
• 47:17
  I hadn't seen it. I didn't get a chance to watch it. I don't know whether it
• 47:20
  was shown here. I know it is now. It's on ITV player here now.
• 47:23
  So I did, for this podcast, watch the pilot episode. It's like an hour long or whatever.
• 47:29
  I wasn't impressed. rest it's basically terminator if
• 47:32
  it was a soap opera it's actually not that bad you
• 47:35
  can't do that well yes you've got to give us program yeah i
• 47:38
  can't you can't yeah yeah i can't i can't judge the whole series it's actually
• 47:42
  quite good and i was disappointed that i got canceled yeah a couple of these
• 47:46
  shows you have the sarah connelly of the exorcist that was coming out yes these
• 47:49
  are all really deep these are all decent shows and really well received but
• 47:55
  for some reason studio wouldn't back them.
• 47:57
  Well, I can't be fair on the Terminator series because I've only seen the pilot,
• 48:02
  even though I didn't really like the pilot.
• 48:03
  But Silver Glow was actually pretty good in it. She played a Terminator.
• 48:07
  Yes, she's a good Terminator who's sent back. Thomas... Thomas...
• 48:10
  Decker. Thomas Decker. Thomas Decker. Lena Headley. And then,
• 48:13
  of course, yeah, I like a lot. I like Lena.
• 48:16
  I would say that the Exorcist series that came out a couple of years,
• 48:19
  a few years ago around the same time was complete rubbish.
• 48:22
  No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. But we're not going to talk about that. Different podcast.
• 48:26
  Yeah. Yeah, different podcasts, and you're stupid and sexist.
• 48:30
  What were you going to say about Doctor Who?
• 48:32
  Oh, you know, I never get you because you put down, we talked about in our past,
• 48:37
  like I'll give you an example, Buckaroo Banzai, which is fucking for Doctor
• 48:40
  Who fans, and you didn't like it.
• 48:42
  But this one, I think the problem with you, your mindset's Terminator 1,
• 48:48
  Terminator 1, Terminator 1, Terminator 1. I admit that's true.
• 48:51
  Yeah, and so you can't get outside that box and appreciate what some of these films do offer.
• 48:57
  I think you and I are on the same page of what was good and what wasn't.
• 49:01
  But for Doctor Who fans, this is almost like a wet dream.
• 49:06
  It's got some camp to it. It's got some cool little chases. It's got some cool little facts.
• 49:12
  It's kind of right up your alley. I don't dislike this film, Darkfeet.
• 49:17
  I'm talking about, in general, the Terminator franchise, where it went.
• 49:21
  Oh, yes, I know what you're saying. But generally, I still...
• 49:25
  I mean, yes, I didn't go to see Dark Fate when it came out because it was so
• 49:29
  badly burnt by Genesis. It was so bad.
• 49:31
  But apart from Genesis, you know what?
• 49:35
  I have a soft spot for three. I'll admit that. Sure, we've done a podcast about it. We've discussed it.
• 49:39
  Yeah, I'm disgusted by disgusted. I will always have a soft spot for two.
• 49:45
  You know, there's nostalgic reasons as well. I think four is very solid.
• 49:50
  So six is one that we've just watched. Reviewing is decent enough Definitely
• 49:56
  nowhere near as bad as Some people are making out So I mean out of six films.
• 50:02
  Pretty much like five of them. So that's an unfair thing to say.
• 50:05
  Although you will never touch the first.
• 50:08
  But I guess part of me needs to accept that as well.
• 50:11
  Yeah, I think you do. Because same argument with Alien and Aliens.
• 50:16
  Are you going to hate Aliens because Alien was so superior?
• 50:20
  It's one of those arguments. But I'll tell you what, as a franchise goes,
• 50:24
  this franchise gets a pass. Oh, yeah.
• 50:28
  There's more hits here. I got Salvation. terminator
• 50:32
  now this is not the order i like them i'm taking you can watch salvation
• 50:36
  terminator judgment day and
• 50:39
  end with dark fate and you have a nice little complete little box set right
• 50:43
  there and the other two never existed well i'm gonna shit i'm gonna list them
• 50:48
  in my order of favorite obviously the first one then i would say i'm being totally
• 50:55
  honest two then then four then,
• 50:59
  I have a soft spot for three. Maybe three. Maybe three and six tied together.
• 51:04
  You're saying this is just as good if not maybe not as good as fucking three?
• 51:13
  That coffin scene? Yeah, six is probably better. But I'm basing it on my own
• 51:18
  sort of emotional sort of attachment to it.
• 51:20
  But if you want to boil it down to what's a better film, six or three? Six.
• 51:25
  So yeah, okay. Okay, one, two, four, six.
• 51:30
  Let me make sure I haven't missed any. Three and then five.
• 51:33
  There you go. All right. I go Terminator, Terminator 2, Dark Fate,
• 51:43
  Salvation, and fuck off with the others.
• 51:47
  I like your gun. That's what I would do. I like your gun. Oh,
• 51:50
  Jesus. Don't say that to me ever. Just don't. I like your gun.
• 51:54
  That's fucking just creepy. All right, guys. Time to say goodbye to Ali, but we'll be back.
• 52:00
  Yeah, we're terrible. Terrible.
• 52:04
  Yeah, that was terrible. All right. We're going to, we have a list of films
• 52:09
  we're going to be doing here. And I apologize in advance.
• 52:13
  We got a busy time coming up here. We're going to do a Western month because
• 52:17
  of the new Kevin Costner coming out.
• 52:19
  We got Mad Max, which is what we get into pretty quickly here.
• 52:24
  Then we got Twister A little retrospective of Twister Because we got the new
• 52:28
  Twister movie Then we got Maxine The conclusion of our T-West,
• 52:33
  Trilogy So we got a lot to do here And so just bear with us And we kind of move
• 52:39
  things around But we thought it would be fun We talk really shit cinema And,
• 52:46
  Are they so bad they're good kind of, you know, theory behind them.
• 52:51
  And we're going to start that off with Howard the Duck. I can't finish the sentence.
• 52:56
  We're going to start off with Howard the Duck, George Lucas.
• 53:01
  And see what went wrong there or what went right. Could be a long podcast.
• 53:05
  Was there a bestiality? You got to find out. It's got Leah Thompson in the underwear,
• 53:10
  so I'm pretty much giving it a pass. But it's also got duck titties.
• 53:15
  Oh, that's right. like duck porn. In the bath, yeah. Yeah, you know how much
• 53:20
  you like duck porn there, Trevor. Oh, duck off.
• 53:24
  That could be bad. So, yeah, we're going to talk. What are we talking?
• 53:28
  We're talking Howard the Duck. We're talking Street Fighter.
• 53:32
  Yeah, I love Street Fighter, by the way. Oh, my, shut up. I'm serious. Van Damme.
• 53:37
  We're talking. What other ones are we doing? The other two? That one,
• 53:41
  I'm Quitter Man. And Master of the Universe.
• 53:44
  Oh, Master of the Universe, Dolph Lundgren and we're going to do Alan Quarterman
• 53:47
  and the Lost City of Gold which was a rip off of Raiders of Lost Ark. Oh yeah totally.
• 53:52
  But I remember enjoying it so I'll be and again you got the over the top fucking
• 53:56
  James Earl Jones is the bad guy.
• 53:59
  Dr. Kildare it stars Richard Chamberlain and Sharon Stone that's right yeah.
• 54:04
  Apparently there's a lot of behind the scenes conflict and fighting apparently
• 54:10
  she was a complete diva on set according to reports I've read I wasn't there obviously.
• 54:14
  Well Well, probably sounds like a lot better going on behind the scenes than
• 54:18
  what happened in front of the scenes.
• 54:20
  Well, yeah. I just remember the scene where they're getting cooked in soup.
• 54:23
  So we'll end with that one.
• 54:26
  All right. Thanks for giving us a listen, guys. We really do appreciate it.
• 54:29
  We want to thank Georgia over there in the U.S. We want to thank California
• 54:33
  and Pennsylvania. Thank you so much.
• 54:37
  Those three states have really caught on to us and have quite a serious amount
• 54:41
  of downloads from you guys. Thanks, guys. Welcome to the team.
• 54:46
  We appreciate the loyalty. Keep on listening.
• 54:49
  Give us a shout if there's something you want us to do. Maybe we'll get to it in the near future.
• 54:55
  You can reach out to us at citizenframe underscore podcast on Instagram and, of course, Facebook.
• 55:02
  We're done.
• 55:04
  Music.