Latest / DISGRACELAND / Bonus: Tupac Murder Sentencing and Losing My Religion

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Bonus: Tupac Murder Sentencing and Losing My Religion · DISGRACELAND

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey Discos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life?
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: to Disgraceland, the after party. Welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: a little thing we like to call the after party.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: This is the show after the show, the party after
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the party, the bridge to get you from one full
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: episode of Disgraceland to the other, the backyard to dig
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: into the dirt. Our mission to uncover the truth, to
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: confront the myth, to reclaim the story. On this bonus episode,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: we are talking about... the Christian metal scene as it
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: pertains to As I Lay Dying in this week's full
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: episode on Tim Lambesis. Previewing our episode on Alice Cooper,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the one and only Alice Cooper here in the Halloween season.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: As always, we're going to get into your emails, comments, DMs,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and as always, a whole lot of Rosie. This is
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the podcast for the musically obsessed, the outsiders, the independent
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: thinkers who know that the best history is the history
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: that gets buried. Disgraceland is where I tell the stories.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: You'll end up telling someone else. All right, this goes.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it. Alright guys, welcome into the after party.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: So we're talking about Tim Lambesis from As I Lay
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Dying this week. Obviously this guy is full of shit.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Complete fraud. Frauds are the theme this week. Guy clearly
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: wasn't Christian, wasn't living up to the Christian and spiritual
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and religious tenets and aesthetic of his band. And it
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: was an act to help As I Lay Dying gain
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: popularity in the Christian community. metal scene. Now, this has
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: had me thinking. I just wrote the Jared Leto episode
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: of Disgraceland. That comes out in a couple of weeks.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Prior to that, I wrote the Reggie Watts episode and
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: we're producing that one now. And that comes out in
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks as well. And like with Tim
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Lambesis from As I Lay Dying, as I'm putting together
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: these other stories, I'm thinking about frauds. And Reggie Watts
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: was this dude who turns out wasn't who we thought
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: he was. It doesn't mean that he killed his ex-girlfriend,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: as the most extreme of his detractors would allege. But
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: he clearly is not the cuddly, creative, psychonaut, harmless, intellectual
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: who he puts himself cross as. He's clearly something else.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: And you're going to hear all about that in that episode.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: And he's kind of phony and full of shit in
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways, I believe. Jared Leto, on the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: other hand, may just be the dude we always thought
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: he was. And kind of just like, I guess, being
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: that person out in the open to a degree. There's
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: this thing too, which is really interesting with irony, where
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: if you come at whatever the thing is that you're
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: most afraid of being accused of with irony, And you
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: kind of make a joke of it or with humor,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: you kind of make a joke of it. It's hard
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: then to be accused of that thing. And that's the
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: whole Jared Leto thing with the cult. Yes, it's a
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: cult when referring to 30 Seconds to Mars and Camp
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Mars and all that stuff. But anyways, the point is
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: frauds are on the brain here in my sort of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: creative world. This other thing I have on the brain
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: regarding Tim Lambesis and As I Lay Dying and Faith
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: is I read this book. I've got it right here.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: It's a great little book. It's written during COVID. It's
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: by Martin Scorsese with Antonio Spadaro. It's called Conversations on Faith,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: apropos of Tim Lambesis in As I Lay Dying. And
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Scorsese says this thing in this book that really made
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: me stand up and take note. He says that creative
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: people create out of a desire to better understand world
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: they're living in. And that's so, so true. And I
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: think about what we do here in Disgraceland and the
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: stories that we tell. A perfect example, again, As I
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Lay Dying, Tim Lambesis, but more so the Christian metal scene.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Zeth and I really wanted to understand this world. We
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: don't know the world. This story has been out there forever.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: We're not breaking any news. That's not what we do here.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: But we wanted to understand it. I'm not like a
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: huge Reggie Watts fan. Some of the folks who work
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: at Double Elvis are. I'm not particularly interested in him
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: as an artist. I kind of am. I'm more interested
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: in knowing what the hell happened. How this guy who
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: presented himself as one thing was clearly something else. And
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the result is completely tragic. The death of his ex-girlfriend.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: It just– I really, really wanted to get to how
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: that happened, maybe even why that happened. Same thing with
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Jared Leto. Artists create out of a desire to understand
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: the world around them. Real artists, like Martin Scorsese. To
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: what extent Jared Leto creates to understand the world around him,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know. even after spending two weeks inside that story,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: putting that episode together for you guys, which again will
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: be out in a couple of weeks, to what extent
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Reggie Watts creates to better understand the world around him.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I have a better idea than I do with Jared Leto.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: So much of what Jared Leto does, even artistically, strikes
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: me as phony. Specifically, as we're talking about music, we're
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: talking about 30 Seconds to Mars. We talk about his acting,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: which I think he's a better actor than he is
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: a musician. It's hard for me to understand beyond his
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: own narcissism and his own sense of self and id
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and ego and all of that, what exactly Jared Leto
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: is trying to figure out through the roles that he plays,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the majority of them. Perhaps as Rayon in Dallas Buyers Club,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: he was really trying to figure out what life was
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: like for somebody like Rayon, who was a particularly unique
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: and original character to be portrayed specifically at that time
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: when that film came out, especially, I should say, not specifically.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: So these artists all fascinate me and their motivations fascinate
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: me as well, especially when I think about what we're
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: doing here and why we're doing it as we're thinking
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: about what stories we're going to be telling in the
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: new year. Artists create to better understand the world around them.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: When it comes to faith, when it comes to Tim Lambesis,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: it's particularly appalling when you're fraudulently leading these people along
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and having them just bullshitting your way through your art.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I find that to be particularly gross. At least the
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: damage that Reggie Watts is alleged to have brought. comes from,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I feel like, a place of, I guess he's being
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: true to himself in some way. I mean, he is
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: this sort of psychonaut, psychedelic ketamine advocate who has a
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: handle on drugs or at least proclaims to have a
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: handle on drugs in a way that guide him and
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: help him and really have designed his worldview. Now, is
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: there collateral damage there? Sure. But I do think to
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: some extent, Reggie Watts, unlike Tim Lambesis, is creating to
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: better understand the world around him. And that's something, even
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: if the guy is a creep. But as I got
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: into this book I've mentioned before, and I know I'm
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: all over the place here, but I'm going to make
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: this point. Thanks for staying with me. This is Martin
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Scorsese with Father Antonio Spadaro, Conversations on Faithbook, which I
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: really highly recommend. It's very short. And there's a little
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Scorsese script at the end, an unreleased film script, at
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: the end of this book, which is great. In this book,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: as I was reading it, I started to think about
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Scorsese in relation to Tim Lambesis from As I Lay Dying.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: And I've listened to As I Lay Dying, and none
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of it strikes me as particularly compelling. Obviously, Martin Scorsese
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: is a horse of a completely different color. And when
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I look at something like The Last Temptation of Christ,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: a movie which quite literally almost killed Martin Scorsese, and
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: where he's trying to really say something. He's really trying
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to look at the duality, not only of man, but
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: specifically of Jesus Christ, of this consubstantial God slash human,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: this entity that has to deal with both the failings
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: of being a man And the power of being a
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: god and how to live as both those things, that duality,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: the good and the bad, the good and the evil.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: And it's Scorsese trying to figure out himself. I mean,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: that's exactly what this is, how he can be a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: great artist and a terrible husband or whatever. I'm putting
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: words into his mouth, but I'm sure this is the
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: type of thing that's going on in his head. And
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: he started to look at musicians from history. Somebody we're
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: going to be releasing an episode on, I believe, next week,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper. all this dark, evil imagery, Christian.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: You look at Slayer. One of the dudes in Slayer
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: is Catholic. I can't remember which one. You look at
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osbourne, Christian. And Black Sabbath's music, heavy
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and dark, These themes, I mean, just the name, Black Sabbath.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: They had literal Satanists following them around on tour in
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: the 70s trying to recruit them. And what you have
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: in the music is Ozzy Osbourne trying to figure out
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: his own faith, which was really strong and really significant
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: and really sincere and not what you would think. And
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: that contrast is fascinating to me, truly is. Somebody like
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis, though, he bores me because he's just, once
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: the veil is lifted, there's not much there besides the fraud.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: And it's really gross, and it's really disgusting, and I
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: feel bad for his fans. I truly do. I'm not
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: sure what I learned about myself in the telling of
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: this story. Zeth wrote it, so he's a little more
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: connected to it via the writing than I am via
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: the production. But at least it got me thinking more
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: deeply about the sincerity that an artist should aspire to,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: not just for their audience, but for themselves, to help
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: them better figure out the world, help them better figure
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: out how to exist in this world, how to better
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: figure out how to defend against the trauma that this
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: world can bring, and how to be a better person
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: for your fellow humans. Walk through this world with a
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: better understanding, not just of yourself, but of other people.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: And that condition, that human condition there at the core
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: of all this storytelling, for me, endlessly compelling. Here we
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: are nine years in. Nine years in almost. We're eight.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: We'll be nine. I'm saying nine because we're currently figuring
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: out the episodes that we're going to be telling next year.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Zeth and I just got into a great conversation. You're
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: going to hear it later. on fraudsters in music history,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: from music history. You can hear this story later if
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: you become an All Access member of Disgraceland, or if
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: you already are, excuse me, in the exclusive section of
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: this after party. And it unlocked for us some great
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: stories that we're probably going to get into and tell
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: next year. Stories that I wasn't aware of, or that
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I knew a little bit about, but not a lot
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: of it about. Now I know more about it, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to dive in and bring them to you.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up to become an All
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Access member to unlock this exclusive content plus ad-free content,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: and you'll be able to hear this conversation. Also, Zeth,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: if you're listening, and I know you are, I meant
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: to mention this when we were talking, but we have
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: yet to set a date for all of you guys
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: to get in on a Zoom and go through, kick
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: around some ideas. four episodes that we're going to program
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: for next year. We've got to do that soon. We've
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: got to come up with a date. We'll be doing
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: that in the coming days slash week. And we'll talk
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: about it first on Patreon, but we'll also be talking
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: about it here in the after party. Appreciate all of
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: you guys.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: As I lay dying in the feed this week, that's
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: our latest full episode of Disgraceland. If you haven't heard
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: it and you want a little taste, here you go.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis, he walked into a Barnes and Noble in Oceanside, California.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: And he found this dude named Red. He'd never seen
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Red before. Red was a fixer. Red was a problem solver.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Red was the guy who did the dirty work and
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: got paid for doing the dirty work. Tim Lambesis paid
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Red $ 1, 000 in cash. This $ 1, 000 was a down payment
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: for Tim Lambesis to get rid of his wife. He
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: wanted Red to kill his wife. Tim Lambesis, singer of
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Christian metal band As I Lay Dying. When Tim was
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: speaking with Red, he was careful. He didn't use words
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: that would incriminate him, at least for the beginning of
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the conversation. At the end of the conversation, he couldn't
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: help himself. He turned to Red and he said, hey,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: just to clarify, just so you know, I want her dead.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: That was on May 7th, 2013. And that was the
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: day that Tim Lambesis discovered that the man that he
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: knew as Red was actually an undercover San Diego County
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's deputy.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: So.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: That's a little bit of the As I Lay Dying
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: story for you. If you want to know more about
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the Christian metalcore scene, then this episode on As I
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Lay Dying will have your jaw on the floor. That's
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: top of your feed right now. Coming up next in
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: your feed, right after this episode, in our Rewind episode
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: this Sunday, is our story on Michael Alec and the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Club Kids from the 1990s. Now in 1996, Michael Alec,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: quote unquote, king of the Club Kids, told anyone who
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: would listen, that he killed his friend and nobody believed him,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: despite what Michael was saying. Michael's parties, they were the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: most decadent in Manhattan, including one specific party called Blood Feast,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: where Michael showed up covered in someone else's blood. So
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: when he said he killed his drug dealer and friend,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Angel Melendez, and stuffed him in a box, everybody figured
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: that Michael was just putting him on, that it was
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: another bit. Everybody except Village Voice columnist Michael Musto. Musto? Musto. Musto.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: You say Musto, I say Musto. Michael Musto knew where
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Michael Alec lived on the corner of narcissism and drugged
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: out madness. So Michael Musto took a chance and he
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: published a blind item on this story. Page six picked
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: that item up and suddenly Michael Alec was having to
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: defend the fact that he was alleged to have killed
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Angel Melendez. Michael Alex called it a prank. detectives closed
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: in on Michael Alec and found him holed up in
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a New Jersey hotel trying to escape justice. Alec pleaded
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: guilty to manslaughter, served 16 years, eventually called me on
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the telephone to tell me how upset he was at
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: me for calling him a murderer when, in fact, he
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: was just somebody who was guilty of manslaughter. If you
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: want to know more about Michael Alec's infamous days on
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the New York City club scene, be sure to check
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: out this Rewind episode of the Disgraceland podcast. That's coming
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: up next, right after this after party. And then next week,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: we've got Alice Cooper. Listen, when you're taking in this
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper episode, be thinking about second acts in rock
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: and roll. And let us know what's your favorite comeback
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: album from an artist, their second act album that kind
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: of brings them, puts them back on the map. Album, song,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: can be anything. Favorite second acts in rock and roll,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: give us a call, 617-906-6638 with your voicemail and text,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and you might hear it on next week's After Party.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: All right, discos, excited for next week, blasting out of
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: this Christian metal scene into the world of shock rock
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: with the screaming Jay Hawkins descendant, Alice Cooper, and I
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: want to hear from you. So 617-906-6638, get at me,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: voicemail and text. I'll be back right after this with
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: your DMs, text messages, phone calls, and more. All right, guys,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: welcome back. We're going to get to your voicemails, texts, DMs, emails,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: and all of that in just a bit. But I
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: got to mention that Dwayne Keefe, Keefe D. Davis was
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: sentenced to 40 years to life in prison for Tupac
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Shakur's murder. And I don't know, it still feels like
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the story is not closed. Sentenced, New York Post says,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: sentenced for masterminding Tupac's murder. Keefe D. Davis sentenced on Tuesday.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Sentencing came decades after Tupac's September 1996 murder in Las Vegas.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: 40 years, Davis will most certainly die in prison. But again,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know. This just does not feel, it doesn't
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: feel done. And I can't tell if that's because of
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the facts or just because psychologically, I can't let go
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: of this story anymore. I feel like a lot of
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you don't want to let go of this story as well.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: This is one of the mega iconic stories from music
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: history that is just, it's hard to put down. It's
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: hard to slam shut. And I don't think any of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: us are going to do it despite this sentencing. It's
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: kind of like the Kurt Cobain story. People just don't
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: want to put it down. People like Curtis in the 513. Hey, Jake, this.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Is Curtis from 513. I ain't called in in a
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: long time, but I'm listening to your after party and
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: you asked about why people don't hate Sid Vicious as
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: much as they hate Courtney Love. Well, Sid Vicious' era,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: nobody gave a shit about Sid Vicious except for punk
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: rock people and maybe some other people on the fringes.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: And so nobody cared, basically. With Kurt Cobain's death and
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Courtney being his wife, The people needed somebody to blame
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: because he left a void. That's it, man. Take it easy.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Curtis, he did. Kurt Cobain absolutely did 100% leave
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: a void, as did Tupac. And you're right. You're right
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: about Sid Vicious. Sid Vicious looms large in history. But
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: in the moment, he was fringe. He really was. The
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Sex Pistols were nowhere near as big as Nirvana or Tupac.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: And again, I think the Kurt Cobain story, like the
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Tupac Shakur story, is one where people just do not
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: want to give it up. They don't want it to end.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: What does that say about us if that story is finished?
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Same subject. Let's go to the 903. Hey, guys.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: Adam from Texas and Maryland now. And I'm just calling
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: for a response. to the Courtney Love thing and then
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: the question of the week. But the Courtney Love thing
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: is this basic trauma, a little bit of sexism, but
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: trauma and, you know, people just hate her and all
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: she is. And if they can get a foothold in
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: with any way to explain the way that Kurt died
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: and she's still alive, that's basically my, you know, what
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: I think of that. And the CIA just because she
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: hung out with the Deadheads is insane. Like I said,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Bill Walton hung out with the Grateful Dead, too. Does
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: that mean he is a CIA agent, too? Bill Walton,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: basketball player? I don't think so. Anyway, love you guys.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Love the show. Rock and roll.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Bye. You're absolutely right. Bill Walton, the 86 Celtics were
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: a PSYOP. It's a CIA plant. No, I'm kidding. But
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you did hit on something here, Adam. It's just where
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you have one beloved... artist in Kurt Cobain and one
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: despised artist in Courtney Love. And I forget how you
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: put it there, Adam, but you said something like they
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: can't understand how one is alive and the other is not.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: And I think that goes to the heart of what
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: we're discussing here. All right, let's go check in here
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: with the 915. Hey, Jake, this is Vince from the 915.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: I've been a huge fan of the podcast and Since
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the beginning when you were a guest promoting it on
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the Daily Zeitgeist. That was the beginning. Damn, Vince. That
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: was a long time ago. As for the question of
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the week, what song inspires you to confront slash contemplate
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: your faith? The song that immediately popped into my mind
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: is Doubting Thomas by the alt bluegrass band Nickel Creek
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: off their album Why Should the Fire Die? I've had
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: issues with my faith throughout my adulthood, and the lyrics
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: perfectly sum up those struggles. I'm a doubting Thomas. I
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: took a promise, but I don't know what's safe. Oh,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: me of little faith. Anyway, I love the show, Rockarola.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Vince from the 915, the story of doubting Thomas from
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: the Bible, a good one indeed. And, you know, I
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: got this book in front of me that I was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: talking about earlier, the Scorsese one. And he says something, another,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: he says a lot in here, obviously, that I've remembered.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: But another thing he says is, connected to what you're
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: talking about here. Another thing he says is that faith,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: and I'm paraphrasing, so forgive me. He says that faith
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: is something that should be contemplated and confronted. Contemplated and confronted.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: And that's so true. I think oftentimes people think that
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: faith is just this really hard line in the sand.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I believe X and that's it. And anybody I know
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: who lives a life of faith, including priests that I know,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Catholic priests that I know, they all have their own
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: questions and they all have their own ways of confronting
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and contemplating their faith. And the story of Doubting Thomas
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: is a good one. I don't know the Nickel Creek song,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to check that out. Appreciate you, Vince.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you listening since way back. I remember that interview.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: I remember that interview with the Daily Zeitgeist. Saw Jack recently, actually.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Good dude. Anyhow, let's go on. Here we go. 781
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: gets at us and says, hey, I was into Striper too,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: so you're not the only one. Just wanted to let
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: you know that real quick. Thank you. Also, I'm so
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: happy that you reconsidered Eminem and are now a fan
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: because I love Eminem and I've always loved him. And
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: I was so disappointed when you said that he did
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: not make great music. However, I did not send hate
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: mail and I never would. Love you. Love the podcast.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Always Kel from the 781. Appreciate you, Kel. It's okay
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: if we disagree on some music, though. here and there.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: We're not all going to love the same thing. And
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: oftentimes the music I don't love, I come back to it.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: There's some music that I know is great and I
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: just can't get with it. And then there's music that
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I just cannot stand. 30 Seconds to Mars is part
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: of that. I've never liked that band. I don't care.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: I don't care what Jared Leto may have done or
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: not done. It has nothing to do with my opinion
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: of that band. I disliked the band so immensely that
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't even really talk about my dislike of the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: band in the episode that I wrote because it just
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: seemed too easy And I didn't really feel like I
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: had anything interesting to say critically about them because I
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: don't care about them. You know what I mean? It's
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: like there's such a nothing burger to me musically. The
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: guy has no fucking roots. For a guy who supposedly
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: was raised in the circus or whatever the fuck he says,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: you know, Bob Dylan said he was raised in the circus.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: That guy's got roots. Jared Leto as a musician has
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: no roots. As an actor, on the other hand, well,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: that's a whole other story. Kate in the 270 says, hey,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: when you talk about the Christian music scene and what
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: it's really like behind the scenes, well, I grew up
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: going to the New Song Music Festival held at Camp
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Lucone every summer in Kentucky. Back when I was going,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it was super cheap. Hey, it was the 80s and
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: early 90s. And you could actually have time to speak
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: to different bands. And I'm talking bands like Petra, Striper, Newsboys,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: DC Talk, and so on. I've met them, talked to them,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: stood next to them in the crowds, watching the other
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: bands play. As I Lay Dying is not an anomaly.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: From the time I started going to New Song as
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: a middle school-aged girl, we would tell each other who
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: to avoid. It's like how those of us who were
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Catholic would tell each other which priest to avoid. I
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: know exactly what you're talking about. Growing up, there was
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: always that one.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: You knew.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: You just fucking knew. You didn't even really have to
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: say anything. You just knew. You know what I'm saying? Anyway,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: she goes on to say here, Kate goes on to say,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: we knew who was the real deal. The dudes from
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Petra and Striper were okay. And who is not? Everyone
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: knew to avoid the hell out of the newsboys. And
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: if you've been following the controversy surrounding their former lead singer,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Michael Tate, you'll understand why. Even among women in CCM,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: contemporary Christian music. When Amy Grant had an album cover
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: back in the 80s, where she had two buttons of
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: her blouse unbuttoned, and you could see her throat, Sandy
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Patty Alba called her a whore, which is rich coming
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: from Sandy Patty, who was banging her security guard right.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: We're going deep into it. I love it. So Tim
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Lambesis may be more salacious and evil and murderous, but
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: he's nothing new. And it's just ick. And the closer
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: you live to Nashville, like I do, and the more
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: you see of this, CCM is based like country out
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: of Nashville. Fun fact. The more you realize the industry
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: is the industry. Rock a roll of babes. Kate, appreciate
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: you and the 270. My wife lived in Nashville, went
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: to Belmont University. She has her fair share of stories
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: here with some of the folks you're mentioning even. So
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: appreciate the text there, Kate. 303 texts in, hey, in
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the As I Lay Dying episode, you referred to Razzle
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: from Hanoi Rocks as Dazzle. That was, I'm guessing I
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: didn't pronounce that incorrectly and I actually got tied up there.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: My bad. And I apologize. I'm well aware of Razzle.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: And if you want more on Razzle, you can get
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: him in the Motley Crue episode of Disgraceland. Going back
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: to season two, I believe. Still haven't heard from any
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: of Screamin' Jay Hawkins' children. If you're out there, get
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: in touch. Would love to talk to you. We typically
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: hear from kids of rock stars that we cover, some
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: of them anyways. I'd love to hear. I'd love to
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: talk to one of Screamin' J's kids. Hit us up, 617-906-6638,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: voicemail and text. Want to know how you spent that dollar?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: All right, guys, 617-906, voicemail and text. Get at us
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: with your thoughts on next week's new subject, our new
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: story on Alice Cooper. Question of the week involves greatest
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: second acts in rock and roll. Is it Alice Cooper?
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Who is it? Who came back from the brink? 617-906-6638.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Voicemail and text DMs at disgracelandpod. Email me disgracelandpod at gmail.com.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Speaking of emails, we'll be back right after this with
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: your emails. All right, guys, we're back. Thanks for joining
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: us in this after party. Disgracelandpod at gmail.com. You want
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: to hit us up, talk about anything under the sun,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: music history, true crime related. This email comes from Brandon
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Boyd who writes, Hey, dear Jake Brennan, my name is
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Brandon Boyd and I'm a big fan writing from Burlington, Kansas.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Your Disgraceland episode on Blondie's Debbie Harry in her near
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: miss with Ted Bundy is a masterclass in music, true
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: crime storytelling. I was wondering if you'd be willing to
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: send me, oh, yo, Brandon, you know what, dude? Not
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: going to read your address here. Appreciate the kind words.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I'm happy you wrote us this episode. I can't take
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: credit for it, though. It was written by Mr. Zeth Lundy. Dr.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Lundy crushed it. Matt, Sean, Ryan, the team here on
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: the music side nailed the mix. All praise goes to
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the team. Brandon, appreciate you writing in, man. Thank you.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: All right, this is GracelandPod at gmail.com. If you guys
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: want to get at us about anything, I've got to
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: address my own friend, John Strymish, who hit us up
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: on Instagram. John was upset that we didn't mention John
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Lurie when we were talking about, we were having our
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: conversation about great musicians who have become actors. John Lurie,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you might know him from some of the Jim Jarmusch movies.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe you know him from the last episode of Anthony Bourdain.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: And maybe this is all sounding familiar to you because
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: we just talked about John Lurie, John Strymish, but I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: like any opportunity to talk about John Lurie. Thus, my
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: commentary here. Plus, John Stravich, I hope you're doing well,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: my friend. Thanks for writing. Appreciate you. At DisgracelandPod on
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: the socials. You guys want to get at us about anything,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: that's one way to do it. 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: that's another way to do it. DisgracelandPod at gmail.com via email.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Halloween's here. That means I got a zombie movie to
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: watch with my friend Zeth Lundy this month for this film.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Should be played loud. We're going to be doing Sean
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: of the Dead. That's the next one. Gross Point Blank
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: was the last This Film Should Be Played Loud episode
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: that we taped. That's available for you to listen to
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: right now. Excuse me, watch. That's our video podcast. Listen to.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: What am I talking about? Disgracelandpod.com to sign up to
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: become an all-access member. Grab this film should be played
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: loud episodes. You watch all of those. Do the right thing.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Good fellas. High fidelity. If you want more of a
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: movie conversation, you can get that for free over in
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the Hollywoodland feed with Zeth Lundy and myself. I'm giving
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: you my Hollywood inspired music recommendations every week. Subscribe to
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Hollywoodland wherever you get your podcasts. As promised, Zeth Lundy
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: and I, coming up right now, talk about the biggest
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: fraudsters in music history. All right, we'll be back after this.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: All right, guys, we are back. We're close to that
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: 300 episode number that's coming up in the next couple months.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I almost said weeks. But hey, we're around like number
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: 290 or something like that. So lots of, lots of
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: content is the point. You got a favorite artist, you
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: want to hear a story about them from Disgraceland. Chances
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: are we've told it and it's in the archive or
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: we're going to tell it. Hit me up at disgracelandpod
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: on the social 617-906-6638, voicemail and text disgracelandpod at gmail.com.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: If you need guidance in finding your way through our
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: massive archive, I need guidance finding my way to lunch.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: So I got to get out of here. Let's recap.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Number one, this week, our new episode is available for you.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: That's on As I Lay Dying. Number two, in the
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: rewind slot this weekend, our classic episode on Michael Alec
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: is coming your way. Next week, new episode on Alice Cooper.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Number four is that's going to give you those Hollywood
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: and crime vibes in the Hollywood land feed. So make
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: sure you're subscribed. I'm going to give you my music
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: wrecks and the rap party that happens every week. Number five,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: this film should be played loud. Our video podcast episode
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: on gross point blank is available right now. Next, we
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: are filming Sean of the dead. That's on October 28th. Okay.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Go to disgrace and pod.com to sign up, become an
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: all access member. unlock exclusive content just like this, along
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: with ad-free listening. Number 6-617-906-6638. Your voice keeps us digging
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: into the dark corners of music history, so keep calling,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: keep texting. with your answers to this week's question of
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: the week, or with whatever else you want to talk about.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Number seven, don't forget discos. This isn't just content. It's
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: a community, a community of the obsessed, and no one
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: cares about music, books, records, and the crime and grime
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that ties them all together like you do. And well,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: that's a disgrace. All right, back on May 7th, 2013,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: as I lay dying frontman Tim Lambesis walked into a
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Barnes & Noble to talk to a hitman, a supposed hitman,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: named Red, and this is what America was listening to
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: on that day according to the Billboard charts. Number one,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: just give me a reason. Pink. Last week, one. Peak position, one.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Weeks on chart, 11. Number two, Can't Hold Us, Malcolm
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Moore and Ryan Lewis featuring Ray Dalton. Last week, two.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Peak position, two. Weeks on chart, 12. Number three, Stay, Rihanna,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: featuring Mickey Echo. Last week, six, Peak Position, three. Weeks
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: on Churn, 12. Number four, Thrift Shop, Macklemore, and Ryan Lewis,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: featuring Wads. Last week, Peak Position, one. Weeks on Churn, 13.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Number five, That's It. Quit talking and start mixing.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: Cut it!