Latest / Identity at the Center / #257 - IDAC Sponsor Spotlight - ConductorOne with Alex Bovee

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#257 - IDAC Sponsor Spotlight - ConductorOne with Alex Bovee · Identity at the Center

0:05
This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with
0:10
IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and
0:17
Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the
0:23
Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
0:25
Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you?
0:27
Oh, not so bad yourself. Doing great, man.
0:30
You know, what I was reflecting on a little bit earlier is that
0:34
I've been connected to Henrique to share on LinkedIn for, I
0:38
don't know, quite a while. And you and I are both friends
0:41
with Henrique. Spent time with him.
0:43
We're on stage with him at the Gartner IM Summit.
0:47
He's got over 9000 followers on LinkedIn now.
0:50
So anybody who's listening, if you're not connected, at least
0:54
go out and follow Henrique. I mean, he's a major influencer
0:58
in the space and it's kind of just, you know, scrolling
1:01
through his feet of posts. And a couple things jumped out
1:04
at me. First was this IGA race that
1:08
everybody wants to declare, you know, past the finish line, not
1:13
the finish line. And they're, you know, Gartner
1:16
still producing articles on like top five reasons IGA
1:20
implementations failed, things like that.
1:23
The other is that there's AIM Summit in London in March, March
1:29
4th and 5th. I think we should go.
1:31
What do you think? I would love to go to London.
1:32
London's awesome. Was there her vacation last
1:34
year? Enrique, Becky, If you guys are
1:36
listening, we'd be happy to attend.
1:38
Just let us know. We'll kind of figure that out.
1:40
But yeah, I think that'll be a lot of fun.
1:43
Yeah, absolutely. So what do we have lined up
1:45
today? Yeah, today we've got another
1:48
Sponsor Spotlight episode. For those aren't familiar, these
1:52
are special bonus episodes that we create in collaboration with
1:55
our sponsor lets us delve more deeply into their viewpoints,
1:58
kind of specific solutions in the IEM market.
2:00
I guess just to make it crystal clear, right, this is a fully
2:03
sponsored episode. This is what gives us access to
2:06
the movers and shakers with the sponsors that we work with.
2:08
And in this case, today's sponsor is Conductor 1.
2:11
Conductor One helps organizations secure their
2:13
workforce through modern access controls and identity
2:16
governance. You can find them on the web at
2:18
conductor1.com. And joining us today, we've got
2:21
Alex Bovi. He's the CEO at Conductor 1.
2:23
Welcome to the show, Alex. Thank you guys for having me on.
2:26
I appreciate it. Well, thanks so much for taking
2:28
the time with us. And you know, it wouldn't be a
2:31
normal Identity at the Center podcast without learning a
2:33
little bit about the background of the folks we have on and that
2:36
goes through here. How did you get into the world
2:39
of identity? Is it something that you chose
2:41
or did it choose you? Yeah it shows me.
2:44
I I like to talk about it in terms of I was a security guy
2:48
who kind of fell into identity. So my my background was mostly
2:52
in security. I was at a a mobile security
2:54
startup for a long time and then was drawn to and and went to
2:59
Okta to help them develop their security products in practice
3:03
and spent about five years at Okta building out authentication
3:07
device where access obviously SSO some some things around
3:11
threat detection and really just fell in love with the space.
3:15
I I I'll be honest with you and I never thought of its identity
3:19
was something that I was going to really enjoy.
3:20
But through my time at Octa I just absolutely loved the
3:23
complexity of it the intricacies of it how complicated of a space
3:28
it was and and that led me to the the conductor 1 experience.
3:32
So 0 regrets is it's really phenomenal and now obviously
3:35
there's a a big convergence between identity and security,
3:37
so it's for two of us. I find this is my my theory is
3:40
that a lot of people kind of run the same age that we are, you
3:44
know, without giving away any details, seem to have fallen
3:46
into identity. It wasn't something specifically
3:49
chose. Every once in a while I find a
3:50
real weirdo who chose it. But for a lot of people, I think
3:53
they kind of just all of a sudden they were in identity and
3:56
they didn't, they didn't know it.
3:57
They just were. Do you feel the same?
3:59
Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
4:02
I mean, definitely people. I I've never really heard a lot
4:05
of people starting their career saying identity is something I,
4:09
you know, I want to do. I think, you know, maybe there's
4:11
different spaces around like B2B, SAS or consumer or
4:14
something like that that maybe you're excited about.
4:16
But I think people who end up, you know, brushing into identity
4:21
again, there's if you're really drawn to complex problems, hard
4:26
problems. I think identity is just an
4:29
absolutely fascinating space and it's one of those things that
4:31
just it the problem space continues to evolve and there's
4:35
so much opportunity there. So it's it's there's no shortage
4:38
of just interesting problems to solve.
4:40
It's a great just for being so. I'm happy to recruit others into
4:43
it or draft or whatever is needed to get more folks into
4:46
it. But let's talk about Conductor
4:48
One because they think you've got a pretty interesting story.
4:51
Tell us a little bit about Conductor One.
4:53
How do they get started and what is the problem that you guys are
4:56
looking to solve for? Yeah, yeah.
4:59
We started conductor one about three years ago.
5:01
I I was at Okta just before that really focusing on identity but
5:06
more from a productivity perspective and obviously there
5:09
there's kind of security layers that are involved with securing
5:13
single sign on and and cloud application access.
5:16
But one thing that was pretty clear to me was that MFA and SSO
5:21
were were very insufficient to actually protecting the
5:24
identity, which was rapidly becoming at that time the most
5:28
important asset for companies. So we I just kind of looked out
5:32
and said yeah, there was like even early days at that point a
5:37
lot of talk around identity kind of being the new perimeter.
5:39
I don't think a lot of people knew what that meant.
5:41
But if if you thought about it from a security perspective, you
5:44
realized, well, you need threat detection around it.
5:48
You need better life cycle around it.
5:50
You need, you just needed to solve a lot of these problems
5:53
more from viewing identity as a security problem in the same way
5:57
that that devices were secured right and and so that was really
6:01
the I think the in section and the thesis around conductor one
6:05
is that identity needed a security layer and you know the
6:09
the name conductor one was actually a little bit of a
6:11
derivative of that. So we saw, we we saw this
6:15
missing layer for securing identity and the idea is let's
6:18
go build a company that understands all the technology
6:23
and identities within a company's environment and it
6:25
helps you really orchestrate access and control and security
6:28
across that environment. So that was the idea of
6:31
conductor One is the single conductor for you, for your
6:34
environment. That's a pretty cool story.
6:36
I love hearing the names of organizations and kind of how it
6:39
came about. That's a good one for sure.
6:41
What do you see you guys tell us is like, what's the sweet spot
6:43
in the market for conductor 1? Yeah.
6:46
And another thing that was pretty clear when we were
6:47
starting the company was that this was gonna become a major
6:51
problem particularly for mid market businesses.
6:54
So businesses that are roughly 500 to maybe you know 5000,
6:58
maybe 10,000 employees, they've rapidly adopted the cloud.
7:02
So their organizations have changed pretty dramatically.
7:06
They care about security. They have this large footprint
7:10
of identities across employees and maybe contractors.
7:14
And they're also they weren't necessarily excited about
7:19
traditional solutions that help solve some of these problems and
7:22
where they wanted just a more comprehensive end to end
7:24
solution to actually protecting the identities and access within
7:27
their environment. And so that's really where we
7:30
focus it. It's kind of these companies
7:32
that they're they're too big to do things manually because the
7:36
manual processes are really brutal.
7:38
But they have complex environments that that really
7:42
require some sort of automation and and security protection
7:45
layer and also they care about the data that they're managing
7:50
and you know obviously their their customers and their
7:53
infrastructure and so it's it's security is important to care
7:56
them out to them. So Jim mentioned we've had
7:59
conversations with Henrique and Becky over at Gartner and we
8:02
talked about Magic quadrants and one of the questions that we
8:04
asked them when we were on stage with them was you know they,
8:08
they stopped doing Magic quadrants for IGAA few years
8:10
back. And the question was sort of
8:12
like, OK, well, does that mean you know winners have already
8:14
been crowned like what are we doing here?
8:16
And yet as Jim mentioned, they keep putting out content with
8:20
IGAI Guess it's a very competitive space.
8:23
Why get into this identity governance space?
8:27
I love this question. Well, you know interestingly to
8:31
to talk about Enrique for a second longer he, he, they just
8:33
published some research that talked about I think 50% of
8:37
IGIGA implementations being distressed, meaning customers
8:41
are unhappy, they're over budget, they're you know going
8:44
long in the tooth in terms of like getting the implementation
8:47
up and up and running. And so I think there's a
8:49
disconnect there between sort of thinking and assuming that like
8:54
the winner has been crowned and yet this, this stat when you add
8:57
like the ground truth from customers is that customers are
9:00
deeply unhappy with the technical solutions that they
9:02
have in place. And and that's not from my
9:07
perspective, that's not really a new trend.
9:09
Actually that was one of the early insights that we had when
9:11
we started conductor One when we went out and just did a lot of
9:15
of customer discovery and market discoveries.
9:17
You would talk to companies particularly in this mid market
9:20
segment about the idea of implementing I know an identity
9:24
governance solution and they knew it was required, they knew
9:27
they needed to do it, but they were really not particularly
9:30
excited about the existing solutions in the space.
9:34
So. So I think that was just in
9:35
general an interesting ground truth signal that we saw.
9:40
That said regardless of what you know the analyst community is
9:45
saying and and what's being written about online, the the
9:48
truth that we saw from talking to customers was that people
9:51
were unhappy, they were unhappy with those solutions and they
9:54
wanted different approaches. I think the other thing that we
9:58
really observed is that there was a a bit of a shift, but
10:02
there was a shift from the traditional way companies wanted
10:07
to do identity governance which was which is very IT centric and
10:11
very just focused on that governance problem to then when
10:14
you zoom up and you say we need to secure identity more
10:16
holistically and what does that require?
10:19
That requires privileged access, that requires obviously
10:22
governance compliance and securing sauce access.
10:26
That felt like a a bigger story as well that was really going to
10:29
transform and shift the way that companies, companies wanting to
10:33
to handle the governance problem.
10:34
So we think there's a lot of opportunity there and and we
10:37
continue to see that. I would agree with that.
10:40
I think it's a very diplomatic term, to use the word
10:42
distressed. I see.
10:44
I see a lot of things on fire maybe.
10:47
Probably. Call that as distressed.
10:49
One other thing that I keep hearing about and I want to give
10:52
Jim an opportunity to jump in here, but before that is, you
10:55
know, I hear about legacy, modern and next generation when
10:59
it comes to capabilities and especially it seems like
11:02
identity governance is one of these areas as well.
11:04
I mean what is the difference, What makes something legacy
11:07
versus modern or even next Gen. Because I feel like we have to
11:11
cut sometimes through this marketing speak and say, OK, you
11:14
know this is next Gen. it's 100% more AI or oh, that's a legacy
11:19
and it came out like five years ago, right.
11:21
Help me understand that those those definitions from your
11:23
perspective. Yeah, I mean look I I I sort of
11:27
have the same skeptical high towards a lot of marketing
11:30
buzzword terms. We we cycled through in the
11:33
security industry different, it was like 0 Trust for a while and
11:37
then it was like next Gen. things for a while.
11:39
So that's that's I think a way for new vendors to kind of
11:44
differentiate themselves from existing solutions.
11:46
I do think that there is need there though.
11:49
If you look, if you just started what's broken?
11:52
Wait, sort of traditional and I won't use the word legacy, but
11:55
like traditional IGA solutions, what are some of the challenges
11:59
there And back to that ground truth, I think it's things like
12:04
a huge amount of complexity and overwhelming amount of
12:07
customization required, really long implementation cycles to
12:11
get them them going, not particularly attractive or
12:18
exciting user experiences. I'm trying to be diplomatic and
12:21
some of the worst it's working. But you know, those are just
12:25
some of the, those are some of the challenges.
12:27
So I think even if you just start with that set of things
12:30
and kind of flip it and say, well, how do you do that better?
12:32
Well, you have quick implementations, you have
12:33
opinionated data models, you have beautiful user experiences.
12:37
I think that's the set of thing of improvements that that really
12:41
kind of differentiate this next generation of identity
12:43
governance. But I think it goes a little bit
12:46
further even in my opinion. I think recognizing that
12:49
identity governance is just a part of the identity security
12:53
story means you also have to embrace everybody who's using
12:57
that platform and need to take advantage of that platform to
13:00
secure identity and access within the environment.
13:03
And so you can't as a as a very tactical example, you have to
13:07
treat technical user access or developer acts or like kind of
13:13
developer constructs like having an API and the ability to extend
13:16
the platform and build integrations and so forth.
13:19
It's really like a like a primary use case.
13:21
It can't be an afterthought that's sort of built on the
13:23
platform. So I think there's just a lot of
13:25
opportunity again to fix the the issues that were ground truth
13:29
issues from customers. But then really say if you're
13:31
going to reinvent this category, how would you do it?
13:35
Well, I'd make it super developer friendly, I'd make it
13:37
for the whole organization. I'd have AP is I would use LLM
13:42
and Copilot and sort of some of these more modern technologies
13:46
and and I have more thoughtful way and and that's how we think
13:51
about next generationing identity governance.
13:55
Yeah, that that was a really good overview.
13:57
But I want to geek out about the platform a little bit.
14:01
And yeah, I went on to your website.
14:05
First off, it's a really sharp looking website and really, you
14:08
know, there's a lot there. But I also really like to blog.
14:12
So I did start digging into some of the articles, but not
14:17
everybody's going to do that. So I want to ask you the
14:19
question pretty simply, like what does the product do?
14:22
What does Conductor One do? Yeah.
14:24
We think about our capabilities in terms of a a handful of
14:28
scenarios. I mean our our, our products
14:31
that we sell, our products like access review automation, access
14:35
control automation just in time, access control.
14:38
Those are just kind of the use cases for the lack of a better
14:41
term in terms of like things that that customers buy.
14:45
But I think more broadly you could think about our platform
14:48
as solving a suite of traditional identity governance
14:53
problem statements from compliance to life cycle
14:55
automation provisioning and so forth and then a suite of more
15:00
privileged access, more modern privileged access use cases.
15:04
And so that's where you start to fold in, just in client access
15:08
and you're sending privilege. And then the last set of
15:10
capabilities that we're pretty excited about are things like
15:15
really, really giving a lot more visibility into the identity and
15:20
permission environment within a company's organization.
15:23
Because I think one of the one of the hardest challenges that
15:26
companies have is just really understanding who has access to
15:28
web and what are my security issues and we're missing.
15:30
So aggregating that data is like it's a hard problem.
15:33
Yeah, for me, I mean that's always been the core use case of
15:36
the traditional IGA is like who has access to what, one place to
15:39
go to figure that out. You mentioned access requests,
15:43
access reviews, I mean that's kind of like table stakes
15:48
functionality for an IGA. You also mentioned the privilege
15:51
access management and getting to, you know, zero sending
15:55
privileges or just in time requests.
15:58
I think that's huge. You want to kind of talk about
16:00
that a little bit more? Yeah, absolutely.
16:03
I mean zero sending privileges isn't something that that we've
16:05
been talking about for a while and and frankly I'm super amped
16:08
up that it has a term and as a contact and a focus area it's
16:12
getting more attention. Because I I really do think
16:15
there was this this almost misplaced focus for a long time
16:19
on the idea of of least privileged access and the idea
16:22
of least privileged access is really reshaping roles and
16:26
permissions to like get you know to to really widow winnow down
16:30
the amount of privilege and and that a role has or that a user
16:33
has at a specific time. I think that the challenge and
16:36
the the missed opportunity there is that 95% of the time people
16:42
just shouldn't have access at all like they're not using it.
16:44
They're not like I like to ask the question why do your
16:46
engineers have production access to AWS while they're asleep.
16:49
It's kind of just doesn't make any sense.
16:51
So what just in time access really helps with is helps
16:56
companies to achieve that zero standing privilege methodology
17:01
pattern if you will and and objective by making sure that
17:05
that users can request and elevate permissions in a just in
17:10
time fashion based on a justification.
17:13
I do think just in time is it's kind of a a part of that puzzle
17:16
but it's not the whole part of the puzzle So things like
17:20
removing access when it's unused that's really important.
17:23
I I obviously identifying over privilege is really important.
17:27
Moving the just in time is really important And then the
17:30
the the flip side of that is equally important, which is
17:34
making sure people can get the access back because if you're
17:36
going to remove it, people are going to kick and scream unless
17:41
they know that it's like a couple clicks away to actually
17:43
get the permissions back. I agree with one of the points
17:45
you made in there is like it's it's one of the puzzle pieces,
17:49
not the whole puzzle, but it's a pretty darn big piece.
17:52
I mean, I think back to kind of the traditional identity
17:56
management systems, right before the IGA space existed and the
18:01
way it worked was here's the central place you go in and give
18:04
people access and then we've provisioned it out.
18:06
The nine GA came along and said, oh, you know what you can do is
18:09
collect all this data, bring it together and govern it.
18:15
In other words, you can go one place to find out who has access
18:18
to what. And then it started to build the
18:19
provisioning side. But you don't have to provision
18:23
to every application. And the reason the old way kind
18:27
of was replaced by the new way was you can't just stick
18:30
something in the middle and have a monolith, right.
18:34
And I think that the just like you're not seeing no one's
18:39
coming up with new proxy products, right?
18:40
Like hey, we're going to stick this appliance here and
18:43
everybody route their traffic through that.
18:45
And I think Privileged Access Management is up to the same
18:49
upheaval, right. You can't just throw a proxy
18:51
appliance on the network and say, oh, all privilege Access
18:54
needs to route through that it you're not going to solve enough
18:58
of the problem to make it the right solution architecturally
19:02
speaking. In my opinion, you guys are
19:04
approaching it from a very important angle.
19:06
Yeah, I I I couldn't agree more. I think this is one of the the
19:10
shifts that's happened in the last few years that that people
19:13
are trying to really appreciate is that that traditional
19:15
approach to privilege access management really doesn't
19:19
translate very well to the cloud.
19:22
And there's some key differences.
19:23
I think traditional privilege access management, it was
19:27
really, it was very credential centric and then nerd out for a
19:30
second on like credentials and tokens and like that kind of
19:32
stuff. But the credential meaning in
19:36
SSH key or a password or something like that.
19:38
And the idea is that if you needed some sensitive access to
19:41
some system, you were going to check out this credential.
19:44
And then you're going to log into the system and then perform
19:46
some privileged action or or set of functions and then you're
19:50
going to long out and then hopefully you were going to
19:52
check that credential back in and really hopefully that
19:55
credential is going to be rotated.
19:57
And I think in the cloud that's it's almost a little bit of an
20:00
ENT pattern because in the cloud the perimeter is, is not the
20:04
credential, the perimeter is the identity and so it's the
20:06
identity that's logging in. And then the question of
20:10
privilege access is really what is that identity allowed to do,
20:13
what actions are really allowed form which is an authorization
20:16
problem. And so the the way that you
20:18
manage that to your point is not by.
20:21
Putting a proxy in front of it and you know injecting
20:24
credentials or anything like that.
20:26
It it's really about escalating permissions at the SAS or the
20:30
cloud layer just in time to give people the access they need to
20:34
perform the functions and then automatically de escalating that
20:39
access when they no longer need it.
20:41
And and frankly I think that is a million times of a better
20:45
world. I just how many times have
20:49
systems and companies been breached because a credential
20:53
was accidentally checked into a public GitHub repo?
20:55
You know, there's all sorts of problems.
20:57
Like the the problem with credentials is that they're not
20:59
fundamentally protectable. They're bearer tokens, right?
21:04
For the lack of a better term. And so you can accidentally
21:06
share them, and then you'd accidentally effectively shared
21:09
the permissions and privileges. Man, that's really smart.
21:12
I I think that use Casey you just described there, especially
21:16
on the cloud applications, makes a ton of sense to me.
21:20
I also just made myself a little footnote here that you had a
21:24
blog on this topic around practical approach to achieving
21:29
0 standing privilege. We'll put the the link to that
21:33
in the show notes, but that covered a lot I think of what
21:37
you're just talking about there, right?
21:38
So I'm not going to ask you to kind of regurgitate that, but
21:43
you know, another thing that I noticed on your website was this
21:48
new AI Copilot for Identity Governance.
21:51
And you know, I, I mean you talked, you referenced it a
21:55
little bit, but that got my juices flowing.
21:57
So can you tell us a little bit about that?
22:00
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the interesting things
22:02
we've done on the the LLM side is really looked at how can, I
22:07
mean obviously this is the new technology development in the
22:09
last year. So I think any time that happens
22:13
it's an opportunity to really look at your existing technology
22:16
and stack and say how can we make, how can we make what we're
22:18
doing fundamentally better by using this new technology and
22:22
LLMS are are no different. So when all the the ChatGPT
22:28
technology dropped and took the world by storm we took a step
22:31
back and said how can we use this in the identity security
22:35
and identity governance space to really fundamentally transform
22:38
some of the some of the traditional problems that that
22:40
coax has solved and and making on ideal ways and some of those
22:44
were a little bit more obvious things like recommendations and
22:48
insights that you can generate around like access requests and
22:52
and access controls in general. Some of the less obvious things
22:57
but more of the magical experiences are things like help
23:01
desk automation. So our Copilot for example, ties
23:05
into the help desk and then picks up requests from the help
23:09
desk and automatically processes them using the conductor 1
23:13
engine for something like an access request, gets the
23:15
approvals, provisions it. So you go from this process
23:19
where maybe you had an IT person or a help desk person, you had
23:24
to inject themselves into the access request or into the help
23:28
desk process. They're processing a ticket,
23:29
they're looking at it. They're going to an IGA tool and
23:32
maybe they're doing something there to to really just a
23:35
completely hands free like 0 touch process.
23:39
And and I think that's just an opportunity that's an example of
23:42
where you can apply LLM technology and AI technology to
23:46
really fundamentally transform the way that that that business
23:49
is being done. It's also worth mentioning too
23:52
that we we looked at solving this exact same problem maybe
23:56
two 2 1/2 years ago, before the LLMS and before all the AI
24:01
technology came out. And we actually decided against
24:04
it because we felt like we couldn't make the, we couldn't
24:08
make the experience better enough to to really justify the
24:12
investment. And so when the LLM technology
24:15
came out, we we used that weird. It's it's really a magical
24:18
experience. So you have me at AI and you got
24:21
me at LLM because I have been such a bull when it comes to
24:25
sort of this really disrupting the identity space.
24:28
So I'm excited to see this because I think if you've
24:31
listened to this podcast over the last year or so, we've joke
24:35
about AI at the center and some of the, you know, the subtopics
24:39
that we get into sometimes because it has been such an
24:41
impactful thing on our industry. I am super excited to see this
24:45
because one of the first things I thought about when I saw this
24:46
was like, OK, when is this going to hit products?
24:49
We've heard of AI in the past, like, oh, our thing has AI.
24:53
And for me, at least, the definition of AI changed.
24:57
When I saw what, you know, LLMS like ChatGPT and Lambda, and,
25:02
you know, Google's version of it.
25:03
Bard came out and it became, oh, OK, that's different.
25:07
That's cool. For me, AI used to be like, oh,
25:09
that's just pattern matching and machine recognition and kind of
25:12
stuff like that. Important.
25:13
Yes. But now we're in a totally
25:15
different ball game, and I'm excited to see where this kind
25:18
of takes us. I'm terrified where it's going
25:20
to take us because it might put me out of a job.
25:22
I don't know, but the functionality is very cool.
25:25
I guess from your perspective is that does that definition of AI
25:29
change for you like it has for me over the last year or so?
25:32
It has I I think, look, I'm a I'm a sort of marketing skeptic
25:36
at heart. So you're gonna reveal my inner
25:40
self here, but I always get a little skeptical when companies
25:44
like sprinkle AI dust on things or sprinkle next generation on
25:47
things. And because you really have to
25:49
peel back the onion and say, well, what does that actually
25:51
mean? They think statistical analysis
25:53
and analytics, those are great things to incorporate.
25:57
I think the true unique net new set of functionality and
26:00
capability that LRMS bring to the table is this ability to
26:05
process speech and unstructured text and then to do something
26:09
with it. And so if you just look in the
26:12
IGA context, well, where where is that really useful?
26:14
Well, that's useful obviously when you're interacting with the
26:18
chat bot. I think that's a little, I think
26:20
the chat bot is a little bit of, I think it's a little bit of a
26:24
bug in the system though because it's almost like too obvious.
26:27
And so then if you scratch it a layer deeper and you say where
26:30
are there sort of language problems or issues in
26:33
traditional governance technologies, that's where it
26:36
gets really interesting. And so I think some of those are
26:39
are in use cases like helpdesk, I think some are just in use
26:42
cases around understanding and effective access and and sort of
26:46
like downstream access for users.
26:49
And so there's just lots of really cool applications there.
26:52
Well, I think one of the the things that the IM
26:55
practitioners, the managers out there are struggling with is
26:59
getting more done with less. And what I mean by less is fewer
27:03
resources, right. We you know I haven't talked to
27:07
an I am practitioner recently where adding headcount would be
27:11
an acceptable answer. So really I think that's where A
27:14
is got to fit. You know Jeff made the joke
27:17
about like replacing our jobs and I think it's it's actually
27:21
just going to make us able to do a lot more in the long run.
27:24
Is that kind of your approach as well?
27:26
I think so. I think there's always a sphere
27:29
when automation gets really good that it decreases the jobs.
27:35
But I I mean look at the end of the day we we sell a product
27:38
that both helps customers automate tons but then also
27:42
makes them more secure and no one has ever implemented
27:45
conductor one and then like fired people that's just not
27:49
that's not a thing because really what it what it lets you
27:51
do. I think it does something so
27:53
much more meaningful, which is it lets people not focus on a
27:58
really boring non useful work and instead focus on the more
28:02
meaningful things. Nobody wants to sit there.
28:04
Most companies have something like 40 or 50% of their help
28:08
desk tickets or just access requests.
28:10
Imagine not having to do that job, instead focusing on other
28:15
more meaningful information technology tasks and requests
28:19
and other automation you can do in your company.
28:21
So what we see far more often is that it just saves time and
28:25
effort on kind of the the manual tasks and that lets you it
28:30
really improves kind of your job satisfaction because you're
28:33
spending more time on more interesting problems.
28:35
Yeah. So I'm going to echo this, I
28:37
I've never been part of a IGA deployment specifically where
28:42
people were automated out of a job.
28:44
I think that's something we've heard about for I feel like 20
28:47
years now. It's like, oh, we're going to
28:48
put this thing in and we're going to automate on boarding
28:50
and off boarding and we're going to be able to reduce headcount.
28:53
It doesn't happen in the real world.
28:54
What ends up happening is you are doing more with the same
28:58
people you've had. And I think roles change a
29:00
little bit too. I think, yeah, the way that I've
29:02
been through this process myself, you know, as a
29:04
practitioner in the real world was this mindset shift.
29:08
It went from I'm an administrator to oh now I'm an
29:12
analyst. I've taken the administrative
29:15
tasks out of those things, and now I'm using my brain more, for
29:18
better or for worse, to think about things.
29:21
And are things being done correctly?
29:23
Are there improvements we need to make rather than, oh, let me
29:25
create yet another Lotus Notes account, That's how far back I
29:28
go. Or another mainframe account on
29:30
RAC F for things like that, right?
29:31
Stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely.
29:34
We can automate. But I still think there's this
29:35
space for people to think about it.
29:37
And I think this is where, you know, I joke, we say, hey, you
29:40
know, getting out of a job, I think the job is going to
29:41
change. I think the jobs as we know it
29:44
today are going to change. And if you're not leveraging AI,
29:47
you're going to be behind and you're going to have to figure
29:50
out how to do that. So I don't want to get too hung
29:52
up on the AI stuff because I think it's it may be too much
29:54
right to kind of talk about right now, but I love the idea
29:58
of this and I'm really excited to see where it goes next for
30:01
you guys. Yeah, thanks.
30:02
I appreciate that. And the and completely echo your
30:05
sentiment. I think it just makes the work
30:07
more meaningful, more interesting.
30:09
There's a lot less tedious kind of click OPS associated with
30:12
roles and and and everyone who's in an IT or security team.
30:16
It's not like you don't have a backlog of projects that you
30:19
want to get done. So really what it does is it
30:22
just it freeze that time up so that you go work on really
30:26
important kind of next projects to either make the system run
30:29
better or to your point, yeah, work on other work on other more
30:32
meaningful projects. Yeah.
30:33
I mean, I think the point you're making, Jeff, you know about
30:37
basically like machine learning and I think, Alex, you said
30:41
about like just sprinkle a little AI dust where I've seen a
30:45
lot of the like, oh, we have AI in our IGA product.
30:49
It it can look at your data and say, oh, 80% of the people like
30:54
you have this role. So you should have that role
30:57
too. That is garbage.
30:59
That is not AI. I'm sorry, there's nothing,
31:03
there's nothing whiz bang about that.
31:05
That to me is is not meaningful and I'm glad you guys are taking
31:10
a different approach. Yeah, this statistical analysis
31:13
has its place for sure and I'm not I'm not one to knock it.
31:17
I think if it if it helps you make better decisions, that's
31:20
great and you should do it. But I I really do think there's
31:24
an opportunity to transform some of the more painful processes
31:29
from an automation standpoint and and just do it a little bit
31:31
better. Yeah, OK, now I'm off my
31:33
soapbox. One thing I love is when people
31:37
come on to our podcast and announce some news.
31:40
So you have a little bit of news about a major enhancement to
31:44
your product that's coming out today the day that this drops.
31:49
Is that right? Yeah, that's right.
31:51
Yeah. So we are really excited to
31:55
announce our Access Fabric capability and what the is it
32:01
OK, if I talk a little bit more? Yeah, please do.
32:04
Please do. Swaddle us in your access
32:07
fabric. I will swaddle you in the
32:09
fabric. Yeah.
32:11
So one of the one of the the the recognitions and I would say
32:15
things that we embraced as a company early on was this idea
32:18
that identity and access was musty kind of this this view
32:22
that all identities are in the single directory and that
32:27
directory knows everything about the world.
32:29
It's just a complete it's it's not true for the overwhelming
32:33
majority of companies. Most companies have on Prem
32:36
systems or cloud infrastructure that may not be connected to a
32:40
directory. You just you have these very
32:41
complex environments HR systems, the HR systems may be connected
32:46
to directories or not you might have contractors in different
32:49
systems. So Long story short, there's
32:52
this real data aggregation problem when it comes to
32:57
identity and understanding permissions and authorizations
33:01
within a a an environment, any environment.
33:05
And we've made a lot of investments over over time to
33:10
really be able to reach out and connect to and talk to all of
33:13
these different systems whether those are cloud applications or
33:15
SAS applications or on Prem directory HR systems, whatever
33:19
it is and really pull all that data into a a, a single place
33:25
and that's and that place is what we call the access fabric.
33:27
So we really think of it as a, a platform capability first and
33:32
foremost. Again, it's an aggregation of
33:35
identities, permissions, authorizations, account
33:38
information across a customer's entire environment and the and
33:43
and so that and of itself I think is like that's cool.
33:46
But then well, like what does it do And what what I'm really
33:51
excited about is the, the capabilities that that powers
33:54
for our customers. So illustratively along with the
34:00
Access fabric, we're shipping a tool called the Access Graph.
34:05
We're very creative with naming and what the Access Graph allows
34:09
you to do is is ask sophisticated questions about
34:15
your identity environment. Can you show me orphaned
34:17
accounts? Can you show me users who are
34:21
terminated in the HR system who have local accounts?
34:25
Can you show me non MFA enabled local accounts in AWS?
34:30
Can you show me the effective access chain of how a user is
34:35
granted the specific permission in the SAS application or cloud
34:38
application? So what's beautiful is that it
34:41
it it gives you that that insight into all the identities
34:45
and permissions within your environment allows you to ask
34:48
questions. And then we've always been
34:50
building our, you know our products on top of that access
34:56
fabric. So all the access controls and
34:58
access review automation really runs and is powered by that that
35:01
data layer as well. So it's just a it's a really
35:05
neat capability you know something like the access graph
35:08
is probably most closely synonymous with like a Kim type
35:12
solution, CIM solution if you're familiar with that.
35:15
But it's it's really nice and and easy to get up and running
35:20
and we're just really excited about it.
35:22
I think it's an important part of solving identity security
35:24
problem. So when I hear about like a
35:26
graph, I'm thinking of like a graph database, similar to like
35:30
Facebook's Graph or Microsoft's Graph.
35:34
Am I on the right track? Yeah, yeah, you are.
35:36
It's, I mean you can think of it as like no relief type
35:39
relationships, right? Where you can, you can
35:42
understand all those different relationships.
35:45
I mean, part of the childhood identity is it, it's very
35:47
complicated. You can have groups that are
35:51
members of other groups that then grant permissions to other
35:55
groups that are skimmed to other systems.
35:58
And so identity on the, on the surface seems like a very
36:02
simplistic idea, right? Like, oh, I have users and then
36:06
those users have different roles or permissions within systems.
36:09
And I think if you were really reductive, that's the case.
36:12
But the reality is when you start sprinkling in held app and
36:16
data warehouse technology where you had, if you just pull on the
36:20
snowflake example, you have roles that are belong to other
36:23
roles that grant different tables and column permissions.
36:27
That ends up just being like a very non human scale problem to
36:32
understand all of those different relationships.
36:35
And what we saw is that security teams and IT teams, it's it's
36:41
almost like an intractable problem to try to get that
36:43
holistic view in a single place because you may not many times
36:47
be the system owner for those different applications.
36:49
Being able to pull that data in is a challenge into its unto
36:52
itself. And so yes, it is a as a long
36:56
answer, but it is a a graph type relationship behind the scenes,
37:00
yeah. And what I love about that is
37:02
that, I mean this is the stuff of big tech, right?
37:06
I mean, when you talk about the companies that have this, like
37:09
their Google, Microsoft, Facebook, build on the graph and
37:15
all right, I'm definitely getting outside of my element
37:18
here, right? But it seems to me that the
37:21
advantage of the graph is you're not in the structured sequel
37:27
table structure that says, all right, well, now we want to
37:29
start doing this new thing. We want to start storing these
37:33
new types of documents like that's that could like break
37:39
your sequel relationships or you know, I mean if you're in a
37:42
sauce model, forget about it, right?
37:46
Or it's like reengineering on top of it.
37:49
But the graph model fits that perfectly.
37:51
So this gives your platform like the ability to kind of roll with
37:56
the punches, I'll say like in other words, like come up with
37:59
functionality that you don't even know what it's going to be
38:01
yet. Yeah, exactly.
38:03
And I think the key there and this is a little bit on the the
38:07
technical detail, the the key is getting that data model correct.
38:12
I think it's a it's actually a harder problem than most people
38:15
appreciate. Again like the most simplistic
38:17
reductive view of identity is you have an identity and then
38:19
you have like a role. But I think the reality is that
38:23
you have principles. He's like identity speak and and
38:27
principles can have relationship with other principles and those
38:32
principles can have roles and those roles might grant or have
38:35
authorization permissions to different data elements.
38:38
So it really is this, this very complex data structure and once
38:45
you get that data structure right, you can build
38:48
integrations that pull and ingest data into that data
38:52
structure in a very stream or in seamless way.
38:54
So one thing we didn't really talk too much about but one of
38:58
the the biggest technical advancements that we've made as
39:00
a company and I'm really excited about it is how we've approached
39:03
the integration pattern. So we don't, we don't treat any
39:07
of our integrations as closed source sort of integrations.
39:11
We we've published them actually as open source project called
39:13
Baton in our platform itself. We deploy those all as agentless
39:17
connector. So you don't have to worry about
39:19
that implement that's kind of an implementation detail for us.
39:21
But what that Baton interface allows customers to do that is
39:25
to very quickly support back office portals or home grown
39:29
applications or the Baton Connector, our open source
39:33
connectors is how you would deploy like an Active Directory
39:35
agent that connects to your infrastructure and syncs data.
39:39
So the the Baton Connector itself speaks that data language
39:44
if you will and then you can push that data up to the
39:47
conductor one cloud and and that's and then you get that
39:50
full visibility across the access fabric.
39:52
You mentioned when you're talking about Access, Rabbit
39:54
currently on that you'd be able to basically query it, ask it
39:58
questions. What's the interface for that?
40:00
Is it literally like using our language models to say yes, show
40:04
me this thing. Are we at the Star Trek phase
40:06
where I can say computer show me all orphaned accounts and it
40:09
will know what I'm what I'm talking about?
40:11
You know, it's it's funny we're getting there that right.
40:16
Right now the interface is is very deeply integrated into the
40:19
product. So we have a security dashboard
40:22
and you can see working accounts at a glance.
40:24
I could click into that, I can explore them.
40:25
I can open it up in the access graph.
40:28
So that's all part of that product experience.
40:30
But one of our, one of our guiding philosophies with how we
40:35
build product is about meeting customers where they are.
40:37
And so if you think about where there's other places where you
40:42
might want to ask that question, you might actually have a help
40:44
desk flow that someone says, hey, you know, are there any
40:48
orphaned accounts or accounts with no MFA enabled that I need
40:51
to go remediate? Or maybe you ask that in Slack
40:54
and you tag it with a Conductor 1 logo and we can kick off our
40:58
copilot experience to answer that question then link them
41:01
into the graph. So I think the possibilities are
41:03
endless. I don't know if it's speaking to
41:06
your computer exactly to say that but you could certainly
41:09
type out the question and get the answer in it.
41:11
I'm I think the opportunity to anybody goes is it's pretty deep
41:16
and it's really exciting on the on the product level.
41:19
That's so cool. I'm looking forward to like
41:20
seeing this in action. Let's talk about meeting
41:23
customers where they are because think the natural question is,
41:25
OK, what does this look like? How does this set up?
41:28
So I kind of want to get a little bit into the Conductor 1
41:31
architecture. Maybe just kind of briefly, what
41:34
does this look like? Is it a tenant that I subscribe
41:37
to? And then there's some sort of
41:38
proxy in my environment that kind of facilitates
41:40
communication? How does this work with other,
41:44
you know, integrated targets? You mentioned Baton and maybe
41:46
being agentless. Help me understand visually kind
41:49
of what this looks like. Yeah.
41:51
So our our platform starts first and foremost with our our cloud
41:55
SAS control plane. So you can think of the control
41:57
plane as being the orchestration, the automation
42:01
and then the Access Fabric product within that control
42:05
plane. We also host the agentless
42:07
connector. So when you want to add
42:08
integrations to your other cloud or SAS environments, it's just a
42:13
point and click configuration to let's say like get it connected
42:16
up to AWS or Coupa or NetSuite or whatever the the the tool
42:21
might be. And then those connectors have
42:24
the ability to live outside of our control plane as well.
42:27
So that's how we we really support on Prem or deep
42:31
infrastructure environments. If a customer is running let's
42:36
say like an on Prem Active Directory or they have a
42:38
Postgres database or an LDAP server and they need to connect
42:42
that up to the access fabric and and run orchestration and access
42:46
control and governance that then is is not a.
42:50
You don't have to declare a full product there but you basically
42:53
deploy just a single connector within your environment.
42:57
You can run those connectors in lots of different modes.
42:59
There's there's a lot of like kind of technical flags if you
43:02
will. So you can tell us whether you
43:03
want to enable that connector to do provisioning.
43:06
For example if you've got it connected up to conductor one,
43:08
it's your held app and you want to enable us to do provisioning
43:11
or Postgres and you want to see the provisioning of user
43:13
accounts. Those are kind of different
43:16
running modes if you will for the connectors.
43:19
But outside of that, you know it's it's pretty straightforward
43:22
because it is that SAS architecture which means it's
43:26
pretty straight, it's multi tenanted.
43:27
So you know we can create a new customer tenant with an
43:30
enrollment code and and then the only complexity really from
43:34
there is just getting systems collected.
43:36
How long does it take to get set up on something like this?
43:38
Because I think you know we talked about traditional and
43:41
kind of legacy IJ in the past. I got to imagine it's gotten a
43:43
lot better. We're we're trying to save some
43:45
of those maybe distressed to be politically correct from a
43:49
deployment standpoint. What's it like to get this thing
43:51
stood up and running and I guess help me define or help define
43:55
what does up and running mean to you?
43:58
Yeah. Definitely.
43:59
So we, yeah. So up and running to us means
44:02
they're alive with with whatever product they bought.
44:04
So whether that's access review or controls your self-service or
44:07
JIT, we really think about up and running and live meaning
44:11
you've deployed to your end user customer base and they're doing
44:15
the thing that they were looking to do.
44:18
We've had customers go live in a day.
44:20
I really mean that Now that may not be the end to end
44:24
environment of every single one of their applications, but many
44:29
times, let's say running Access reviews.
44:31
We literally actually had a customer I think 2 weeks ago go
44:34
live in a day with two applications that they wanted to
44:37
run on the Access review side. And the reason you can do that
44:40
is because of really three things.
44:43
One is agentless connectors that you can just hook up to your
44:46
environment, opinionated data model and then a user experience
44:51
that just works and is simplistic for the end user.
44:53
So when you combine those three things it's it's really trivial
44:56
to get up and running there where it can be a little bit
45:00
longer to get up and running as if you have on Prem systems and
45:05
connecting more applications. Generally speaking the long pole
45:08
in conductor 1 deployment is truly just connecting up all the
45:12
different technology. So if you've got you know a
45:16
couple AWS accounts and there you can terraform the the
45:20
configuration into that to let it can you know talk to
45:23
Conductor one. But usually there's like another
45:24
party involved there. If you've got an Active
45:27
Directory on Prem, you have to deploy a container or windows
45:30
service to connect to that. So that's usually the the quote
45:33
UN quote long pole in deployment.
45:35
But that being said, overwhelming majority of
45:38
customers are lives in less than a month or two and with the
45:42
product that they bought kind of kind of the end to end for the
45:44
full scope of things that they were looking to do.
45:46
That's nuts. I mean, I think to be if I think
45:49
back to my first IJ deployment about 15 years ago, it was a 2
45:53
1/2 year, three-year project and you're absolutely right, the
45:56
long pole is always application integration, right.
45:58
That's not specific to conductor one every any identity
46:01
application, it's, you know, you want to connect it to as many
46:03
things as we can. It just means, hey, we have more
46:05
time. We'd put that in place.
46:06
So the fact that you could be up and running in a month now, you
46:09
know is is absolutely bonkers in front in my head.
46:13
But it's it's great for customers, right, these because
46:15
I think that that eats into the time that it used to take to
46:18
show value. What are we getting for our
46:20
money? What is the risk that we're
46:21
reducing? When did we stop talking and
46:23
start doing? And the faster and the shorter
46:26
you can make that, I think it just makes it so much better.
46:28
And I think it it also just highlights why it's so important
46:31
to be able to go live with incremental use cases.
46:34
So whether that's self-service application request or just in
46:38
time access reviews or monitoring or SOD, whatever the
46:41
the use case might be the the value of having a platform
46:46
that's quick to implement means that you can actually unlock
46:49
those use cases pretty quickly. I think part of the challenge
46:53
with the distress IDAIGA implementations is many times
46:56
the scopes just so big and could just even get an incremental
46:59
amount of value. You got to do all this platform
47:01
work before you can realize that single use case.
47:04
And so we really flipped it on its head and said how do, how do
47:07
we make it so it's dead simple to get something up and live and
47:11
running and get the use case deployed, get customers seeing
47:14
value really quickly because that's the way that that we're
47:17
going to make non distressed IG employment.
47:20
I guess I could say I'm sold. I want to try this out.
47:23
I'm on your website and I'm looking.
47:24
I see a button here. It says start a free trial.
47:27
Talk me through how I can test this out.
47:30
Yeah, definitely. So a couple ways.
47:32
One is we we have a lot of click through walkthroughs and on the
47:36
web page and and we're actually going to be doing even more than
47:39
that. We also have very transparent
47:41
documentation. We we just very much believe in
47:43
being very front footed about the capabilities of the product.
47:45
You can learn about the product very quickly and then in terms
47:49
of actually getting up and running, yeah, submit a free
47:52
trial request. We do have a a salesperson jump
47:56
on and and chat just to make sure it's you know a good fit
47:58
that we can actually help you from a pain point perspective
48:03
and use case perspective. And then we run PO CS and trials
48:07
all the time with customers. Again, literally our POC kicks
48:11
off, kick offs are an hour. Customers usually are up and
48:13
running within that hour and they're testing it out and yeah,
48:19
that's it. It's not.
48:20
It's not hard. It's a great way to take the
48:23
distress out of an IGA deployment You you kind of stole
48:26
my Thunder because I was clicking around and I saw the
48:28
the guided walkthrough of the product tour and I'm looking at
48:30
it says you know we'll give you a quick overview of automated
48:33
access reviews and just in time access requests and it looks
48:35
like I can click through sort of the interface and that guided.
48:38
So I can see, oh, this is what the product looks like.
48:40
This is how you set it up. And so yeah, I'm I'm assuming,
48:44
oh, look how easy it is to configure to be up and running.
48:46
You know, that quickly, Which is a really nice, really nice
48:49
touch. I love it when you know products
48:51
in the space, walk me through things and say, OK, show me what
48:54
it looks like. Don't tell me about it.
48:56
Show it to me. And I love it when I see that
48:58
kind of stuff. Yeah, I can't agree more.
49:00
I think we are trying to shine a light on on some of the
49:05
challenges in the traditional IGA space and I think the best
49:08
way to do that is just to be super transparent, open and
49:11
always to customers and and make it really easy to to see value
49:16
and and be successful. How dare you be transparent with
49:19
customers? You're crazy, man.
49:21
I'll put a link in our show notes so that if people want to
49:23
check it out for a free trial perspective, it'll be super easy
49:25
for people to click in over and and kind of find it.
49:28
But I would definitely encourage people to check it out.
49:30
Alex, you've been amazingly generous with your time and kind
49:33
of getting into the details of what's come out.
49:36
Super excited about the announcement for Access Fabric.
49:38
That's super cool. Can't wait to kick the tires on
49:40
that. It would not be an Identity
49:42
Center podcast without ending on a lighter note.
49:46
I know that you're into guitars and we kind of talked about what
49:50
we want to talk about here, but let's let's kind of close out
49:53
with this lighter note question of if you could have a jam
49:56
session with any guitarist living or dead, who would it be
50:00
and why? I'm going to cheat and actually
50:03
answer with two guitarists, which is Scott and Seth.
50:05
The even the even brothers. I just, I'm a big kind of folk
50:10
music fan. I play a lot of cowboy chords,
50:14
so I I love Aver Brothers music. It's easy to play, but it's
50:17
super enjoyable and I would I would jam out with them for
50:20
days. So I can't say that I'm familiar
50:23
with the Aver Brothers, I guess. What's the?
50:25
What do I need to know about them so I can check them out?
50:29
They are very. It's like a like bluegrassy folk
50:35
music. So if you're if you're it's like
50:39
lumineers are kind of stomp clap music, but then they're like
50:42
kind of clap music without the stomp.
50:44
I don't know how this is right, but it's just you you got to be
50:47
into that kind of thing. A lot of, it's a lot of guitar,
50:51
it's a lot of, it's a lot of finger picking.
50:55
They play a little bit of like the mandolin and they play a
50:59
little bit of the banjo too. So it's just it's like very kind
51:04
of simplistic folk and bluegrassy music, but just
51:07
really great lyrics and easy to play and like super enjoyable.
51:11
That's cool, Jim. If you had to pick to have a jam
51:14
session, which guitar is you going with?
51:16
Yeah, and so I probably wouldn't participate in the jam session,
51:19
but here's some people would like to meet because they're
51:22
awesome for whatever reason. So I like country music too.
51:26
So Johnny Cash is definitely on that list.
51:30
New music. Riley Green, But I probably if I
51:35
had to pick one, it would either be Jerry Garcia or Trey
51:40
Anastasio who is the lead from Fish.
51:43
And I mean, those guys are just like we're born with a guitar in
51:48
their hands. Hey man, I grew up.
51:50
My formidable years were in the the years of jam bands.
51:53
So I remember Fish very well. Yeah, 8 minute long Fish songs
51:58
and Dave Matthews Band songs. So that was the thing.
52:01
Yeah, I couldn't play new thing, but I liked listening.
52:03
I have a guitar behind me in my office here.
52:06
I I cannot play anything other than like the first couple
52:08
chords of Sefa Nation Army. I I just can't pick it up.
52:13
But I think, you know, I I am deeply appreciative of people
52:19
who spend the time to learn an instrument and have gotten good
52:21
at it because I have tried several times over the years to
52:24
try and learn guitar and I just haven't gotten it done.
52:27
You know, I'm not a country music person.
52:28
In fact, I would probably go more the rock route.
52:31
I'm thinking Dave Mustaine would be killer to kind of sit with
52:34
and I it would definitely be me, just kind of one chord and
52:38
making sure my hand doesn't move to try and not look too stupid
52:42
and let just Dave do his his wizardry on, you know, on the
52:45
guitar itself or maybe someone like Kirk Hammett.
52:47
I'm definitely on the rock side of things.
52:49
But a Jimmy Page? I'm I want something heavier,
52:53
harder, the crunch of a metal guitar.
52:55
Yeah, he's he's run-of-the-mill. Jimmy Page run-of-the-mill.
52:58
That's, you know, that's elevator music at this point.
53:01
But hey, everybody gets to choose their.
53:03
Own. Exactly.
53:04
That's why it's a lighter note. OK, we're going to go ahead and
53:06
leave it there for this episode. Alex, thank you so much for
53:09
being part of this. We're going to have a bunch of
53:11
links in our show notes for people to check out.
53:13
Hopefully people go over there and take a look at things, take
53:16
a look at, you know, starting a free trial, go through the
53:18
guided tour, read up on the new exciting announcement, Access
53:21
Fabric and all the plethora of AI goodness that's coming out of
53:25
that, which is fantastic. You can learn about
53:28
conductor1@conductor1.com, great name again, love the story
53:32
behind it. And yeah, you can listen to us
53:34
on the web ID acpodcast.com and it's Twitter ID AC podcasts.
53:38
With that, we're going to go ahead and leave it there.
53:40
Thank you so much, Alex, for being part of this and we'll
53:42
talk with everyone else in the next one.
53:44
Jeff and Jim, thanks for having me on.
53:47
You've been listening to Identity at the Center.
53:50
We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and
53:54
review and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the
53:58
website at identity@thecenter.com and find
54:02
us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. See you next time on Identity at
54:10
the Center.