Latest / Business Brain – The Entrepreneurs’ Podcast / What’s Your Entrepreneurial Appetite?

Transcript

What’s Your Entrepreneurial Appetite? · Business Brain – The Entrepreneurs’ Podcast

• 0:00
  Dave Hamilton: Business Brain, episode 746, for Wednesday, April 22nd, National Jelly Bean
• 0:07
  Dave Hamilton: Day, 2026. Welcome back.
• 0:10
  Shannon Jean: Only one kind of jelly bean I like.
• 0:12
  Dave Hamilton: What kind?
• 0:13
  Shannon Jean: Jelly Billy.
• 0:16
  Dave Hamilton: But they have different flavors. Yep.
• 0:36
  Dave Hamilton: That's a good lesson in branding, folks. Greetings and welcome to Business Brain,
• 0:40
  Dave Hamilton: the show where we take some ideas, we crunch them, we dissect them, we use them.
• 0:44
  Dave Hamilton: We're already dissecting the whole jelly bean thing and all that.
• 0:47
  Dave Hamilton: And we do it so that we can keep on sharpening our charmed lives,
• 0:52
  Dave Hamilton: our business brains, to live our charmed lives every single time we get together.
• 0:57
  Dave Hamilton: Our sponsors include granola.ai slash brain.
• 1:01
  Dave Hamilton: Man, I've been using granola for a while. It's that personalized note-taker
• 1:05
  Dave Hamilton: that works with any meeting.
• 1:07
  Dave Hamilton: Love it. We'll talk more about that in a little bit, and you can try it free
• 1:09
  Dave Hamilton: for three months at that URL, granola.ai.
• 1:12
  Dave Hamilton: And also, quickbooks.com.
• 1:17
  Dave Hamilton: They're evolving in QuickBooks Payroll. Intuit QuickBooks Payroll is evolving.
• 1:21
  Dave Hamilton: We'll talk about that, too. For now, here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.
• 1:25
  Shannon Jean: And in Northern California, back from Nashville, I'm Shannon Jean.
• 1:29
  Shannon Jean: If you have never seen, there's a great Jelly Belly documentary.
• 1:32
  Shannon Jean: It's called Candyman, and it goes through the whole story of Jellybean,
• 1:37
  Shannon Jean: and there's some fascinating business lessons in there. Very, very strong.
• 1:41
  Dave Hamilton: Didn't we talk about that documentary
• 1:43
  Dave Hamilton: on the show? I think I saw that at like a South By or somewhere.
• 1:49
  Shannon Jean: Might have. It came out in like 2017. It's Candyman, the David Klein story.
• 1:55
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah.
• 1:56
  Shannon Jean: And it's pretty interesting, man. There's a lot of drama. And you can find it on YouTube.
• 2:02
  Shannon Jean: Highly recommend you check it out. And then send us an email at feedback at
• 2:06
  Shannon Jean: businessbrain.show and let us know what you think those lessons are. It's harsh, dude.
• 2:12
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, I want to look and see if I have seen it. Because if I hadn't,
• 2:14
  Dave Hamilton: I definitely want to watch it. That sounds really good.
• 2:17
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, it's definitely worth watching. Hey.
• 2:20
  Shannon Jean: Last week, I think it was, we talked about coming up with a quiz to find your,
• 2:27
  Shannon Jean: first we call it the entrepreneurial age, but it turns out we like this entrepreneurial appetite better.
• 2:33
  Dave Hamilton: Yep.
• 2:34
  Shannon Jean: And so I worked with Claude after that episode.
• 2:38
  Shannon Jean: We came up with 10 questions and kind of fine-tuned him a little bit,
• 2:42
  Shannon Jean: and we built this quiz so you could find out what your entrepreneurial appetite is.
• 2:47
  Shannon Jean: And I thought maybe I could, for those watching, I could share my show. You got it right there.
• 2:53
  Dave Hamilton: I do. I have it.
• 2:54
  Shannon Jean: Maybe you could take the test.
• 2:57
  Dave Hamilton: I'm going to take the quiz here and we'll make it work for those of you listening too.
• 3:02
  Dave Hamilton: Perfect. Yep. So it's at businessbrain.show slash quiz.
• 3:07
  Dave Hamilton: You can take the quiz. We won't even know that you took it because you're not
• 3:10
  Dave Hamilton: going to give us your email or anything.
• 3:12
  Dave Hamilton: This is just 10 questions. No fluff. So,
• 3:17
  Dave Hamilton: The first question, it's 10 p.m. on a Sunday. You have a 9 a.m.
• 3:20
  Dave Hamilton: Meeting tomorrow. Do you open your laptop to work on a project that you're excited about?
• 3:25
  Dave Hamilton: Four options. If it's important, probably not. No Sunday nights off limits or
• 3:29
  Dave Hamilton: without hesitation, sleep can wait.
• 3:32
  Dave Hamilton: Sunday night is when I'm like, it doesn't even have to be.
• 3:36
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't even have to be important. So it would be without hesitation.
• 3:41
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. I would do the same thing.
• 3:44
  Shannon Jean: All right. I'll read this one. Go. You quit your job today. Your next paycheck,
• 3:49
  Shannon Jean: unknown. How do you feel in week three?
• 3:53
  Shannon Jean: And the options are stressed. I'm already polishing my resume.
• 3:57
  Shannon Jean: Panicked. This was a terrible idea. Energized. I work better under pressure.
• 4:01
  Shannon Jean: Anxious but focused. I'll figure it out.
• 4:04
  Dave Hamilton: All right. So I'm going to answer this. I'll answer.
• 4:08
  Dave Hamilton: I'll do the quiz as me. I want to see what my score is. So I think I would probably,
• 4:13
  Dave Hamilton: it would either be energized or anxious.
• 4:16
  Dave Hamilton: But focused i i think it's probably anxious but focused because i i i fuel off
• 4:21
  Dave Hamilton: of that like that's kind of i think.
• 4:22
  Shannon Jean: I would think so yeah all right yeah
• 4:24
  Dave Hamilton: You have 10k saved a real business opportunity appears
• 4:27
  Dave Hamilton: what do you do uh put in 5k and hold the rest i'm in let's go that's my emergency
• 4:33
  Dave Hamilton: fund not touching it i need a detailed plan first maybe uh it man it really
• 4:41
  Dave Hamilton: depends on the opportunity so So I'm probably going to hedge my bets and say
• 4:44
  Dave Hamilton: I'll put half of it in and hold the rest.
• 4:46
  Dave Hamilton: That's probably where I go.
• 4:49
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, yeah. Next one is, your business loses money for six months straight.
• 4:53
  Shannon Jean: What's your move? Start updating my LinkedIn?
• 4:56
  Shannon Jean: Analyze, adapt, and push harder? I would have to quit after month two or cut
• 5:01
  Shannon Jean: cost, find the leak, and keep going.
• 5:05
  Dave Hamilton: Well, I think it would be cut costs finally can keep going for me.
• 5:09
  Shannon Jean: I think I'd be the same way. I think you and I are going to come right pretty close.
• 5:13
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, it's either that or analyze, adapt and push harder. I'm not sure that
• 5:17
  Dave Hamilton: there's I don't see. I think it's a distinction without a difference there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:21
  Shannon Jean: I agree. I agree.
• 5:22
  Dave Hamilton: How do you feel about income that looks like a roller coaster?
• 5:25
  Dave Hamilton: Feast and famine every single month. I can handle it with a cash reserve.
• 5:29
  Dave Hamilton: Hard no. I need prediction. I need predictable income.
• 5:33
  Dave Hamilton: Three is it would keep me up at night. Four, that's just entrepreneurship.
• 5:37
  Dave Hamilton: Fine with it. Pretty much that number four.
• 5:40
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. It may keep you up at night, but it doesn't care.
• 5:43
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's entrepreneurship, dude. It doesn't matter.
• 5:47
  Dave Hamilton: That's just how it works.
• 5:48
  Shannon Jean: The next one is, someone tells you your idea is bad. What happens next?
• 5:53
  Shannon Jean: I listen, then decide for myself. I second guess for myself for a day, then recover.
• 5:58
  Shannon Jean: I start to wonder if they're right. I seriously reconsider the whole thing. That's a lot there.
• 6:05
  Dave Hamilton: For me, it's either going to be listen, then decide for myself.
• 6:09
  Dave Hamilton: That's what I've learned to do.
• 6:11
  Dave Hamilton: But what I used to do was basically a different version of the same thing,
• 6:15
  Dave Hamilton: which is second guess myself for a day, then recover.
• 6:18
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, I would agree. I've learned now what I look for in scenarios like that
• 6:23
  Dave Hamilton: is does anything they are saying,
• 6:26
  Dave Hamilton: and this goes for like bad reviews or anything that you get like that.
• 6:30
  Dave Hamilton: I sort of watch my own reaction to it.
• 6:34
  Dave Hamilton: Is there anything in this that causes some sort of like visceral reaction to me?
• 6:39
  Dave Hamilton: Because if there is, then this person might have done me a favor and crystallized
• 6:45
  Dave Hamilton: a thought that I had yet to like think about.
• 6:48
  Dave Hamilton: So, but I'd probably listen and then decide for myself.
• 6:51
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, because they're going to oftentimes, you know, even if they're naysayers,
• 6:56
  Shannon Jean: you could use that data to refine what you're thinking about. It's data.
• 7:00
  Dave Hamilton: It's year three. The business is alive but not growing.
• 7:04
  Dave Hamilton: You're paying yourself less than your old job. You, one, would have left already.
• 7:09
  Dave Hamilton: Two, start entertaining job offers on the side. Three, this is part of the journey. I stay.
• 7:15
  Dave Hamilton: Or four, give it one more year with a clear goal.
• 7:19
  Dave Hamilton: I think one more year with a clear goal probably because you can –,
• 7:28
  Dave Hamilton: But failure doesn't mean I have to go get a job. Failure means I just need to
• 7:32
  Dave Hamilton: do something different.
• 7:34
  Shannon Jean: Correct. I wish there was an answer that said, oh, I'm going to keep pushing
• 7:38
  Shannon Jean: on this, but I may start something else.
• 7:40
  Dave Hamilton: Start the second thing on the side. Yeah.
• 7:42
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I would do. So, I mean, I guess it would
• 7:45
  Shannon Jean: be part of the journey. I would stay.
• 7:47
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, but I'm not going to stay forever blindly.
• 7:50
  Shannon Jean: No, you can't write it into the ground.
• 7:52
  Dave Hamilton: I'm going to put a clock on it.
• 7:54
  Shannon Jean: Even though I've done it.
• 7:55
  Dave Hamilton: I was just going to say, don't, this is a do as I say, not as I do thing. Yeah.
• 8:00
  Shannon Jean: Well, I also think the ones I've ridden into the ground, I had other companies
• 8:05
  Shannon Jean: that were paying me to help me stay alive.
• 8:08
  Shannon Jean: I didn't die when they died, right? So that's a little different.
• 8:13
  Shannon Jean: Question number eight. How much of your identity is tied to your job title or employer?
• 8:19
  Shannon Jean: Your job title or employer?
• 8:22
  Shannon Jean: None. I'm the same person either way. It's basically how I introduce myself.
• 8:26
  Shannon Jean: Oh, I know people like this.
• 8:28
  Shannon Jean: A little, but I'm working on that honestly quite a bit.
• 8:33
  Shannon Jean: So I'm taking this as you're an employee, your identity, how much is tied to
• 8:39
  Shannon Jean: your job title at the company or the name of your employer. I work for Facebook
• 8:44
  Shannon Jean: or I work for Google, right?
• 8:45
  Shannon Jean: I think. So for me, I would say none. None. Because even, yeah, I just, I don't care.
• 8:53
  Dave Hamilton: It wouldn't. No, in fact, it's really hard when somebody asks me,
• 8:56
  Dave Hamilton: who do you work for? What do you do? It's like, oh, crap. Now I have to answer this question.
• 9:00
  Dave Hamilton: Like, this sucks. Yeah. So I'd much rather just be Dave.
• 9:04
  Dave Hamilton: It's easier. I'm a driver. It's fine.
• 9:06
  Shannon Jean: I always tell people, it's okay. Be hard to define.
• 9:11
  Shannon Jean: It's challenging at times, but it's a feature, not a bug.
• 9:15
  Shannon Jean: Yes. And I finally just say, if you're not an entrepreneur, I always just say,
• 9:20
  Shannon Jean: oh, I own small businesses.
• 9:21
  Shannon Jean: But if you're an entrepreneur, it's like, well, how much time do you have? Yeah. Very different.
• 9:25
  Dave Hamilton: Let's talk. That's right.
• 9:25
  Shannon Jean: That's why you and I talked for an hour today before we started recording this episode.
• 9:30
  Dave Hamilton: I did roll the tape. Yeah, the tape's rolling. Okay, good.
• 9:33
  Dave Hamilton: Number nine, you have to do sales, cold calls, follow-ups, rejection,
• 9:37
  Dave Hamilton: over and over. How do you feel?
• 9:39
  Dave Hamilton: Number one, I'd hire somebody else ASAP. Two, no problem. It's part of the game.
• 9:43
  Dave Hamilton: Three, this alone might talk me out of it. Four, not my favorite, but I'll do it.
• 9:48
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, it's no problem. It's part of the game, but I also would hire somebody else for this ASAP.
• 9:56
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, that's my answer,
• 9:57
  Dave Hamilton: Too. If I can, because then it frees me up. Yeah.
• 10:00
  Shannon Jean: Well, I don't think it's a cop-out because maybe I'm just not,
• 10:04
  Shannon Jean: yeah, maybe I don't like it. Maybe I'm not the best at it, and I want to hire
• 10:06
  Shannon Jean: somebody who's better than I am.
• 10:07
  Dave Hamilton: Who's better than me. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:10
  Shannon Jean: All right, last one. Okay, last question. Yep. Honest gut check.
• 10:13
  Shannon Jean: Why do you want to be an entrepreneur?
• 10:16
  Shannon Jean: It seems like everyone else is doing it. I'm burned out of my job and need an exit.
• 10:21
  Shannon Jean: I want more control over my time and income.
• 10:25
  Shannon Jean: I have something specific to build and I can't not do it.
• 10:31
  Shannon Jean: That's a big one, right? Where you're just like, I have to make this thing.
• 10:34
  Shannon Jean: I think it's going to work.
• 10:35
  Shannon Jean: But I also think a huge one is I want more control over my time and income.
• 10:39
  Dave Hamilton: We said we were going to use my answer. So that is also me.
• 10:43
  Dave Hamilton: It is rare that i've had something specific that
• 10:46
  Dave Hamilton: i've just needed to build that's not typically me for me it's i i want i want
• 10:53
  Dave Hamilton: the charmed life and i'm willing to do whatever i need to to get it like it's
• 10:58
  Dave Hamilton: not so much about the the product as it is i'm going to create a lifestyle business
• 11:04
  Dave Hamilton: which i've done all right so i'm going to see my results shannon what.
• 11:06
  Shannon Jean: Do you got
• 11:07
  Dave Hamilton: I got a 79 Ready with caveats. I got an 85.
• 11:12
  Dave Hamilton: Okay. That's interesting. All right. You got the appetite and a few things to
• 11:15
  Dave Hamilton: work on. The drive is there. The tolerance for ambiguity mostly there.
• 11:19
  Dave Hamilton: You'll need to get comfortable with the gaps, irregular income,
• 11:22
  Dave Hamilton: rejection, and the long stretches where nothing seems to work.
• 11:25
  Dave Hamilton: These are non-negotiable parts of the deal. Go in with eyes open.
• 11:30
  Shannon Jean: That's pretty good.
• 11:31
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, the sales tolerance is the one that hurt me the most.
• 11:34
  Shannon Jean: Oh, me too.
• 11:35
  Dave Hamilton: I got a three out of ten.
• 11:37
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, we obviously answered that one wrong. Yeah, mine says 85 out of 100 says born for this.
• 11:44
  Shannon Jean: You're built for it. You have the risk tolerance, the work ethic, and the mindset.
• 11:47
  Shannon Jean: You're not looking for permission. You're probably already doing it. Yes.
• 11:51
  Shannon Jean: The honest feedback, stop overthinking and go. Your biggest risk is analysis
• 11:57
  Shannon Jean: paralysis, not failure.
• 11:58
  Dave Hamilton: That's pretty cool. Yeah. I like it.
• 12:01
  Shannon Jean: I like it. That's good. Yeah, so businessbrain.show slash quiz.
• 12:06
  Shannon Jean: Go take this quiz and then send us some snapshots of what your scores are so
• 12:12
  Shannon Jean: we can share them here on an episode. We'd love to hear it. Feedback at businessbrain.show.
• 12:16
  Dave Hamilton: All right. I have some other things to talk about here.
• 12:19
  Dave Hamilton: Certainly the finale of my son's atypical college path and maybe an entire a
• 12:26
  Dave Hamilton: justification for writing off my vacation.
• 12:30
  Dave Hamilton: The next thing that I want to do is let's talk about our sponsors.
• 12:34
  Dave Hamilton: And, you know, part of the charmed
• 12:36
  Dave Hamilton: life is entrepreneurs is being in every meeting that matters. Right.
• 12:40
  Dave Hamilton: But staying fully present while also capturing every decision and action item.
• 12:47
  Dave Hamilton: That's a battle that I used to lose daily.
• 12:50
  Dave Hamilton: And that's why I use Granola, our sponsor, and I love it.
• 12:55
  Dave Hamilton: Granola is an AI-powered notepad built for the way real people actually meet.
• 13:00
  Dave Hamilton: You take rough notes like you normally would, and in the background,
• 13:05
  Dave Hamilton: Granola transcribes the meeting and turns everything into clean,
• 13:09
  Dave Hamilton: structured, actually useful notes the moment the meeting ends.
• 13:14
  Dave Hamilton: It works through your device's audio, and this is what's cool, right?
• 13:18
  Dave Hamilton: So it integrates seamlessly into whatever video tool you're already using. No setup, no hassle.
• 13:24
  Dave Hamilton: Doesn't matter who started the call or what platform they chose.
• 13:28
  Dave Hamilton: Granola just works for me, and it can work for you, right?
• 13:32
  Dave Hamilton: I would tattoo the Granola logo on my forearm if my dermatologist would stop screening my calls.
• 13:37
  Dave Hamilton: If meetings are eating up your day, Granola is a no-brainer,
• 13:42
  Dave Hamilton: folks. You can try it totally free for three months.
• 13:45
  Dave Hamilton: Just head to granola.ai slash brain.
• 13:49
  Dave Hamilton: That's granola.ai slash brain to get your time back.
• 13:53
  Dave Hamilton: Get three months free at granola.ai slash brain.
• 13:57
  Dave Hamilton: Go check it out. I love it. I think you're going to love it.
• 14:00
  Dave Hamilton: And our thanks to Granola for sponsoring this episode.
• 14:05
  Dave Hamilton: And leading that charmed life as an entrepreneur means your time belongs to
• 14:09
  Dave Hamilton: building the business and your team, not drowning in spreadsheets and payroll runs.
• 14:14
  Dave Hamilton: And really, that's why we switched to Intuit QuickBooks Payroll,
• 14:18
  Dave Hamilton: the number one payroll software for small businesses.
• 14:21
  Dave Hamilton: It's this all-in-one command center integrating payroll, team management,
• 14:26
  Dave Hamilton: and accounting in one platform, giving you time and control over your numbers
• 14:32
  Dave Hamilton: so you can focus on what actually matters.
• 14:35
  Dave Hamilton: And this summer, QuickBooks Payroll is evolving into a total human capital management
• 14:40
  Dave Hamilton: platform with tools coming to help you hire, onboard, manage,
• 14:45
  Dave Hamilton: and retain your team, all connected right to your books.
• 14:48
  Dave Hamilton: I send QuickBooks Payroll handwritten thank you cards like it's 1987, folks.
• 14:53
  Dave Hamilton: Make the switch like we did to QuickBooks Payroll and lead your business the right way.
• 15:01
  Dave Hamilton: And you don't want to miss the new amazing tools coming soon. I'm stoked about this.
• 15:06
  Dave Hamilton: Learn more by going to QuickBooks.com slash workforce. That's QuickBooks.com slash workforce.
• 15:13
  Dave Hamilton: Go check it out. We're loving it here. I think you're going to love it over
• 15:16
  Dave Hamilton: there. and our thanks to QuickBooks Payroll for sponsoring this episode.
• 15:21
  Dave Hamilton: All right. Back in episode 648, Shannon, I shared the sort of the beginning
• 15:28
  Dave Hamilton: of my son's journey to complete his college degree.
• 15:33
  Dave Hamilton: Oh, yeah. He had finished two years of school and then his school had kind of
• 15:39
  Dave Hamilton: lost all of the teachers in his department. So he wound up getting an internship
• 15:43
  Dave Hamilton: that turned into a full time job as a software engineer.
• 15:46
  Dave Hamilton: So he was already kind of living this but finding that
• 15:49
  Dave Hamilton: there were some still some you know glass ceilings
• 15:52
  Dave Hamilton: happening for him uh even at his without the
• 15:55
  Dave Hamilton: degree yeah without the degree i see okay yeah
• 15:58
  Dave Hamilton: it just so happens the company that he's at wanted uh
• 16:02
  Dave Hamilton: you know in order to promote him to the next level he would need a degree
• 16:04
  Dave Hamilton: and this that and the other thing and he was like okay so he sat
• 16:07
  Dave Hamilton: down with i think at the time it was chat gpt and said
• 16:10
  Dave Hamilton: all right find me a path and it did uh and and he went to uh it remotely went
• 16:17
  Dave Hamilton: to excelsior college uh to finish his degree i think it cost him about eight
• 16:23
  Dave Hamilton: grand uh for those which essentially was like the final two years of his two years oh.
• 16:28
  Shannon Jean: Wow that's awesome
• 16:29
  Dave Hamilton: And he was able to do it like while he was working full-time he worked his butt
• 16:34
  Dave Hamilton: off sure don't get me wrong like he he put a lot of time into this and and really crunched,
• 16:41
  Dave Hamilton: But he was able to do it in, I think, about eight months, nine months.
• 16:45
  Dave Hamilton: He was able to kind of make it all happen.
• 16:48
  Dave Hamilton: And and now that he's got his degree, let's say it cost him 10 grand.
• 16:54
  Dave Hamilton: I know it was less than that, but, you know, somewhere in that range.
• 16:58
  Dave Hamilton: Now that he's got his degree, he's already gotten a raise at work.
• 17:03
  Dave Hamilton: And within certainly I think he might have already hit like break even for his ROI for this.
• 17:10
  Dave Hamilton: But but but certainly within the first year, he will hit break even and then
• 17:15
  Dave Hamilton: and then some for his ROI. Now, that's only in the second two years.
• 17:19
  Dave Hamilton: And I want to make it clear, his ability as a programmer, he's always had an
• 17:25
  Dave Hamilton: aptitude as a programmer.
• 17:27
  Dave Hamilton: But he went into where he studied for the first two years at Reed College.
• 17:31
  Dave Hamilton: He went in with that aptitude. He came out with an ability.
• 17:33
  Shannon Jean: They taught him how to be a programmer. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that's terrific.
• 17:38
  Dave Hamilton: He only needed two years of college to do his job, clearly, because he got the
• 17:41
  Dave Hamilton: job. But he needed the piece of paper to rise up the ranks, at least in today's world.
• 17:48
  Dave Hamilton: And so it was that extra two years that he was able to finish.
• 17:54
  Dave Hamilton: And he's done. Like, it just seems bananas to me for anyone to approach.
• 18:01
  Dave Hamilton: And I know I'm going to offend some people here, but I'm okay with that.
• 18:04
  Dave Hamilton: It seems bananas to me for anyone
• 18:06
  Dave Hamilton: to approach college in today's world without thinking about the ROI.
• 18:11
  Shannon Jean: Of course.
• 18:13
  Dave Hamilton: Well, you and I say this.
• 18:15
  Shannon Jean: It's so obvious, dude.
• 18:16
  Dave Hamilton: I know.
• 18:17
  Shannon Jean: When my kids went to go to school, we said, all right, you go ahead and create a Google sheet.
• 18:24
  Shannon Jean: You list each of the schools you want to go to, and you put the housing,
• 18:28
  Shannon Jean: the travel, I mean, everything that's going to have to add up.
• 18:32
  Shannon Jean: And then let's talk about what the job market is, unless you're going to go
• 18:38
  Shannon Jean: start something you're on your own, which I would have supported that, of course. Sure, sure.
• 18:41
  Shannon Jean: But you wanted to see. And also then factoring in, is one of these schools going
• 18:48
  Shannon Jean: to give you a scholarship?
• 18:50
  Shannon Jean: Of course. Are you getting any other stuff? So, it's a great exercise to have
• 18:54
  Shannon Jean: your kids do this because I think a lot of young people mistakenly,
• 19:00
  Shannon Jean: and I think they're kind of sold the bill of goods while they're in high school
• 19:02
  Shannon Jean: and maybe by other peer groups,
• 19:05
  Shannon Jean: that the school and the degree is like a golden ticket.
• 19:08
  Shannon Jean: But it's not. It's just the ground floor. It's table stakes in many ways.
• 19:13
  Shannon Jean: Like, you know, your son can do the job, but some bureaucratic things are,
• 19:19
  Shannon Jean: well, we want to only have degrees, engineers, or da-da-da.
• 19:22
  Shannon Jean: Okay, great. I'm going to figure it out. That's the way to do it.
• 19:24
  Dave Hamilton: I'm going to figure it out. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 19:26
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. I love it.
• 19:28
  Dave Hamilton: And his company is aware of what he did. It's not like he pulled the wool over anybody's eyes.
• 19:32
  Dave Hamilton: They were like, we hired you without the degree. Yeah. We get it.
• 19:37
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, we want to give you this job, right? Yeah. And I still think going to
• 19:42
  Shannon Jean: college is worth it because you build it. If it's worth it.
• 19:47
  Dave Hamilton: I don't think people need to go for it. Like my son went for two years.
• 19:51
  Dave Hamilton: That was certainly enough for him, arguably more than enough,
• 19:54
  Dave Hamilton: right? But, you know, that's what he went for.
• 19:56
  Dave Hamilton: And I've always said that, you know, a sleepaway college is kind of like a halfway
• 20:01
  Dave Hamilton: house, right? Like, you know, you're not living at home, but you're also not really on your own.
• 20:08
  Dave Hamilton: You're in a system, and that's okay.
• 20:10
  Dave Hamilton: Like, some people need that more than others, you know.
• 20:13
  Shannon Jean: Correct. And then when I was figuring out the ROI, it's also like,
• 20:18
  Shannon Jean: well, your network. Who are you going to meet?
• 20:21
  Shannon Jean: Yes. And what value can we put on that?
• 20:23
  Shannon Jean: And what are the experiences that you're going to have?
• 20:27
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, but the network might be the most important.
• 20:32
  Dave Hamilton: The experiences, you can buy those experiences for way less.
• 20:36
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, like the school my son went to, he went to Reed College in Portland, Oregon.
• 20:40
  Dave Hamilton: I'm pretty sure if you went there today as a freshman and went for four years
• 20:45
  Dave Hamilton: and got a degree, that degree from Reed without paying your travel expenses
• 20:50
  Dave Hamilton: back and forth across the country would cost you about $350,000.
• 20:55
  Dave Hamilton: Now, if you came into the episode and said, Dave, I got an idea.
• 21:01
  Dave Hamilton: It's this great idea. It's only going to cost you $350,000.
• 21:07
  Dave Hamilton: The first question I would ask you is, okay, what's the ROI and what's the payoff horizon?
• 21:14
  Shannon Jean: How do I get my money back?
• 21:16
  Dave Hamilton: When do I get my money back?
• 21:18
  Shannon Jean: When do I get my money back?
• 21:19
  Dave Hamilton: That's it. Absolutely. And I would argue that most people that go and spend
• 21:25
  Dave Hamilton: $300,000 or $400,000 on an entrepreneur, That's ridiculous. They will never get their money back.
• 21:33
  Shannon Jean: I think you're right. I think you're right. Unless you're, I mean,
• 21:35
  Shannon Jean: there are specialized professions that obviously.
• 21:37
  Dave Hamilton: That's why I say most people.
• 21:38
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, it's a little different. But I would agree. I think the average person
• 21:43
  Shannon Jean: is better off going to a local community college.
• 21:46
  Dave Hamilton: Get yourself an apartment. Like, do the thing. Yep.
• 21:49
  Shannon Jean: Get your GED stuff out of the way. Save a ton of money for yourself or your
• 21:53
  Shannon Jean: parents, whoever's financing it.
• 21:54
  Dave Hamilton: Whoever it is.
• 21:54
  Shannon Jean: And then pick a school. And, you know, but I tell you, I live in Northern California
• 22:00
  Shannon Jean: and it's very competitive here.
• 22:02
  Dave Hamilton: Same here.
• 22:02
  Shannon Jean: With schools, same there. Oh, yeah. And even, I just had a conversation yesterday
• 22:06
  Shannon Jean: at the dog park with a parent that was like, man, my daughter's gone,
• 22:11
  Shannon Jean: and we've got these three schools, and this one is three times the amount.
• 22:17
  Shannon Jean: And then they're like, well, how do we tell her no? Because that's where she wants to go.
• 22:21
  Shannon Jean: You know, and I get it. It's like, well, it's a good lesson to go through this, but it's tough.
• 22:26
  Dave Hamilton: You should have been paving this path for the last 10 years,
• 22:29
  Dave Hamilton: folks. Yeah, yeah, you can't.
• 22:31
  Shannon Jean: Because they're, you know, they kind of, yeah, you've been greasing the wheels, so to speak.
• 22:35
  Shannon Jean: And so they're ready to go, okay, I'm just going to roll into this, you know, big one.
• 22:40
  Shannon Jean: And yeah, I'm on board 100%. And especially, it is obviously time to change education.
• 22:50
  Shannon Jean: No one can change my mind about that. No, same. And with the new ways of teaching
• 22:55
  Shannon Jean: and integrating AI into classes and where the teacher becomes more of a facilitator
• 23:01
  Shannon Jean: versus a memorization type teacher thing,
• 23:06
  Shannon Jean: That's a very agrarian methodology that we've had for 100-plus years.
• 23:11
  Shannon Jean: Obviously, it's time to change. However, not to offend anybody,
• 23:14
  Shannon Jean: I love teachers. I think they're awesome.
• 23:16
  Shannon Jean: But the teachers' unions will be
• 23:19
  Shannon Jean: the ones that hold us back for as long as possible to keep the status quo.
• 23:23
  Dave Hamilton: I get it. The private institutions. Like, the education bubble started to burst,
• 23:28
  Dave Hamilton: what was it, about 25 years ago?
• 23:31
  Dave Hamilton: And Stanford was the first one to realize it. at Stanford and out in your area, the West coast there.
• 23:37
  Dave Hamilton: And they said, okay, well, wait, wait, wait, wait, we can't have what,
• 23:42
  Dave Hamilton: if we stay this course, we're going to be out of business.
• 23:45
  Dave Hamilton: So yeah, that's right. We're going to make it that if your family makes less
• 23:50
  Dave Hamilton: than X and, and you get into Stanford, which yes, not easy, but you know, like fine.
• 23:57
  Dave Hamilton: It's their money, their private institution, do whatever the heck they want. That's right.
• 24:01
  Dave Hamilton: So they said, if you can get in and your family
• 24:04
  Dave Hamilton: makes less than x you get to come for free and then
• 24:08
  Dave Hamilton: they and then it evolved they were like
• 24:11
  Dave Hamilton: okay well we can we can expand this program and that's
• 24:14
  Dave Hamilton: where the whole thing about estimated family
• 24:17
  Dave Hamilton: contribution the efc and all that stuff came from
• 24:20
  Dave Hamilton: was that because other schools all the other ivy leagues are like well shoot
• 24:24
  Dave Hamilton: if stanford's doing it better jump on board other we're gonna get left behind
• 24:27
  Dave Hamilton: and now there's what about 100 and 150 schools nationwide that subscribe to
• 24:33
  Dave Hamilton: this whole estimated family contribution thing where it's not just free.
• 24:37
  Dave Hamilton: It's a tiered system, essentially, where they essentially try to make it so
• 24:42
  Dave Hamilton: that you graduate without debt.
• 24:45
  Dave Hamilton: But the trick is you've got to get into one of those schools.
• 24:49
  Dave Hamilton: And if you don't, that's when things get really difficult.
• 24:52
  Shannon Jean: Well, yeah, because there's a whole other batch of schools that are happy to take you for a doc.
• 24:57
  Shannon Jean: And what I believe, not this is an educational podcast, Yes, but...
• 25:02
  Shannon Jean: Once the government started guaranteeing the student loans.
• 25:06
  Dave Hamilton: That's it. And you can't take bankruptcy. They guaranteed them by making it
• 25:12
  Dave Hamilton: so that they weren't subject to bankruptcy.
• 25:14
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, it's ridiculous. So once that happened, all these schools that were like,
• 25:19
  Shannon Jean: okay, well, we can raise our prices because we're going to do this and we're
• 25:23
  Shannon Jean: going to charge $75,000 a year
• 25:25
  Shannon Jean: because they're going to borrow it and it's guaranteed by the government.
• 25:27
  Shannon Jean: That needs to change to where the school has to have more skin in the game,
• 25:31
  Dave Hamilton: I believe. I think the school should be the one to extend the loan.
• 25:36
  Dave Hamilton: Absolutely. And if you, the person they brought through their system,
• 25:41
  Dave Hamilton: doesn't earn enough to pay off the loan, then they don't get their money back.
• 25:47
  Shannon Jean: Correct. They need to be incentivized. They're incentivized now to charge as
• 25:52
  Shannon Jean: much as they can and not worry about the output.
• 25:55
  Shannon Jean: That's right. They need to be focused on the output and helping their students,
• 25:59
  Shannon Jean: who are their clients, succeed.
• 26:01
  Shannon Jean: And that will switch everything up. That's a battle, but I think we'll get there.
• 26:05
  Shannon Jean: But if you're interested.
• 26:06
  Shannon Jean: Same mind on this. Yeah. Go look up. I would recommend further reading is read
• 26:11
  Shannon Jean: about Alpha School, which is a private school. It's expensive right now,
• 26:14
  Shannon Jean: but they're expanding. The price is coming down.
• 26:17
  Shannon Jean: Go take a look at it. It's a really interesting model.
• 26:20
  Dave Hamilton: All right. Yeah, I want to learn about this. Okay.
• 26:22
  Shannon Jean: It's pretty wild.
• 26:23
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. AI-powered private school. Well, if that doesn't tee us up
• 26:28
  Dave Hamilton: for Friday, I don't know what does.
• 26:31
  Dave Hamilton: Folks, thanks for hanging out with us. We will see you on Friday for Friday.
• 26:39
  Dave Hamilton: Keep living that charmed life.
• 26:40
  Dave Hamilton: Have a great couple of days. We'll see you then.