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Legally Brunette: The Gilgo Beach Murders · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: will be your host today Emily Simpson and Shane and
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Shane Simpson. Okay, first of all, we just want to
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: do a little updates. We always like to do updates
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode on previous cases we
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: have talked about. So, there were some things about the
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Diddy case that came up in the news. Did you
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: read anything about it?
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: No? Is he He's still a dirtbag right?
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Yes? Okay, Well, what's going on right now is that
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Diddy's defense team is arguing that the Man Act, which
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: is how he was convicted. Now you do remember that
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the large charges against him, like the racketeering, conspiracy and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the trafficking, and then all that was left that he's
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: going to be because he's still on drill. He has
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to be sentence, but he's just going to be sentenced
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: under the smaller charges. Anyway, his defense team is arguing
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: that the Man Act is unconstitutional and that was what
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: he was convicted under as far as transporting. Remember he
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: was just convicted of transporting prostitutes or sex acts or whatever.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: The Man Act, also known as the White Slave Traffic Act,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: as a law that prohibits the transportation of individuals across
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: state lines or international borders with intent that such individual
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: engage in prostitution or any sexual activity. So the law
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: has a very broad wording, and subsequent Supreme Court interpretation
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: has allowed prosecutors to bring cases against this is in
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: the past unlawful pre marital, extramarital and interracial couples. So
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: basically there are arguing. His defense team is arguing that
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: this is basically an outdated, you know act that has
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: roots in racism, that was really had broad language so
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: that you could target interracial couples, and it was used
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: with R. Kelly. That's how he was convicted. He was
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: convicted under the Man Acts. So Cumb's defense team is arguing.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: So they argued back in February that the Man Act
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: has a racist history, claiming that he was targeted for
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: being a powerful black man and what was racist and
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: its inception has often been racist in its operation. That's
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: what the legal team claims. His attorneys said this in
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a court filing, claiming that no white person had faced
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: a similar prosecution with the Man Act. Now the question
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: is what if it is deemed to be unconstitutional, Well,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Is the age having any age alone doesn't make it
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: like to eliminate it because it's like, well, murder's been
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: illegal for a thousand years.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess when you look back at the intent
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: of the law and when it was enacted, the purpose
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: was to possibly target inter racial couples. And are we
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: now using it to prosecute a black man? And that
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: is I'm not no, no, but I'm when I say we,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I mean the prosecution is that is that the intent there?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: If it's to be unconstitutional, what are the after effects?
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I mean R Kelly was convicted under it?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Does he get out?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Also, just a little other update on the Ditty case.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Do you remember when we were talking about Didty earlier
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: and there was another victim. She was she was named
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: victim number three in the indictment and that she was
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: supposed to testify, She was subpoena.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: To testify, and then she back down or disappeared.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Well, the prosecution was like they couldn't get a hold
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: of her, or she quit responding, her attorney quit responding
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: on her behalf. So basically she ended up am I
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a no show? So victim number three in the indictment
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: her name was Gina, and she previously identified in court
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: documents as victim number three. However, Gina has now submitted
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: a letter to a New York judge in support of Ditty,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: asking that he'd be granted bail. She's asking the judge
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: to consider Combs's role as a family man and allow
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: him to remain free while under court supervision. In the letter,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: which was filed by Combs's defense team back on August third,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Gina described Ditty as someone who had worked to better himself,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: noting that although although their relationship had had its challenges,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Combs has shown growth over time. She wrote, quote, he
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: was willing to acknowledge his mistakes and make a better
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: decisions in the future, adding that by the end of
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: our relationship he had developed an energy of love, patience,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: and gentleness. And do you remember we also talked about
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: this in an earlier episode, how he had and I'm
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: sure this is in response to all the lawsuits that
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: were coming out against him. But remember, you know he's
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: changed his name multiple times. He was like puff Daddy,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: and then he became p Diddy, and then I think
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: his most recent name change was he changed his name
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to like Sean love Combs or something like that. So
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Gina goes on to emphasize that Colmbs had not been
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: violent in years and called him cooperative and respectful throughout
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the legal process, allowing.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: It, well, I'm sorry to interrupt. Oh wow, you've been nice.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: For a couple of years, very well behaved.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: So why he's still committed all that he did? That's ridiculous.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know why someone would get a lesser sentence
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: because they've been nice for a couple of.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Years, right, Like when you're like when you're going to
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: court and convicting someone and then they're like, but you
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: know what your on her? I was nice this week.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say that at the reunion. I'm gonna
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: be like, look, I.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Was nice today off camera. I was very nice.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Despite being referenced in the indictment, Gina never testified during
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Combe's trial because prosecutors told the court that they had
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: lost contact with her and her attorney. Well now that
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: we know, I mean, she's writing a letter on his
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: behalf and sending it to the judge that his defense
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: team is submitting it. She's saying that he's, you know,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: this change man, and he's all full of love and
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: you know, warmth and cuddliness. Now, clearly she didn't have
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I can I can guess
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: what happened.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: What happened.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, this is just a legend. This is
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: just my opinion. But I assume that he had some
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: kind of contact with her. Oh yeah, either she's scared
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: or we should yeah account, or she's gaining something substantial.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: And that's just my opinion. I don't know that for
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: a fact, but I would assume anyone who doesn't show
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: up to court to testify and then writes a letter
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: on his behalfs talking about what a wonderful person he
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: is has been affected.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: That's the witness that went on the stand and said,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: you know, no, your honor, mister Gotti is a wonderful
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: man and I hope my children are inspired by him,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: and he's such a kind father. And I don't know
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: what you're talking about, because that's what they did on
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: the stand. Oh yeah, for John Gotti. They would literally
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: be like, no, yeah, I know, he's a great guy.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw him in the alley of the day
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: was great.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they had visits yeah yeah.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, prior to absolutely yeah, and I would have done
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: the same thing.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna protect your family, You're going to protect
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: yourself at the end of well, all right, we already
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: discussed this when we were talking about the Idaho for murders,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: where I was saying, please do not sleep in the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: bed while I'm getting attacked.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I promise.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's all I want you to say.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: All right, wasn't in our marriage vows?
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Well it is. Now we're gonna We're gonna amend our
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: marriage vows. And I would I would like to add
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: an amendment that Shane has to if I am attacked
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, that he has to intervene.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to This is such an
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: interesting case. I have found myself obsessed again and just
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: researching constantly. Shane says, I researched too much, but I
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: do maybe anyway, let's move on to And it took
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: me a while to figure this out, but the Gilgo
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Beach murders is the same as the Long Island serial Killer.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: So if you see anything on Netflix or Hulu about
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the gil Go beat, it is the same as long
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: as the Long Island serial Killer. It just took a
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: long time, put the two together, put the two together.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And now obviously here we are and we've put the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: two together and they're all connected. So let's go through
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: the Gilgo Beach murders and the Long Island serial killer.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: All right, let's do a little background of the case
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: and just get through some facts.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Gilgo Beach is the name of the location, the beach, right,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: It's not the name of the serial killer. No, Okay.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure that was clear.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: The Gilgo Beach serial killings involve a string of unsolved murders,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: primarily targeting women, many of whom were sex workers, whose
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: remains were discovered along a remote stretch of Ocean Parkway
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: near Gilgo Beach, Long Island. And this happened. These were
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: discovered between twenty ten and twenty eleven. Now, the catalyst
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: of finding these four bodies on Gilgo Beach was a
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: woman named Shannon Gilbert. And so I feel like this
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: story really has to start with Shannon and how this
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: whole investigation and how all of these bodies became known. Okay,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: So Shannon Gilbert has an appointment to meet with a
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: client and Long Island, and when I say client, she's
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: a sex worker. Yeah, is that what they're called John?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: To meet with John. I don't know why, I don't know,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but okay, a John. So she has
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: a driver named Michael Pack, who I assume is just
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: a friend or something. And obviously, you know you don't
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: want to go alone. She drives too Long Island to
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: meet with her client. Michael Pack is her driver, and
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: he's like sitting in the driveway at this house, this home,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: it's in Oak Beach, and she's inside with the client.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Then she for some reason, we don't know. This is
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: where the mystery unfolds. But something happens inside this house.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: We don't know what it is. But she calls nine
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to one one and she's freaking out, and it's actually
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: like a twenty minute phone called a nine to one
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: one actually released the entire phone call at some point
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: in time. But when she calls, she says things like,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: they are trying to kill me, They're going to kill me,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: They're after me, things like that, she says. She says
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: they As far as the investigation goes, she was just
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: meeting with the one man in the house. Apparently she
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: runs out of the house and she runs by her driver,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Michael Pack. He sees her running around, and I think
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: he tries to get her to get into the car
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: and she won't get into the car. Then she runs
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to a neighbor's house who is an elderly man. She
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: knocks on the door. He lets her in. He says
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that she like jumps in the house, and she's in
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: the hallway inside his house and he's and she's like,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: they're gonna get me all these things, and he's like,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: stay here, and I think he turns around for a
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: second to maybe pick up a phone or something, and
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: she runs out of the house and then he's looking
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: out of his window and he sees her and she's
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: darting behind his car, and she's hiding under He has
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a boat, you know, because this is long island, you know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: there's each and he has a boat. She's hiding behind it.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: He sees her crouching. He calls the police. Then she
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: runs to another woman's house, an elderly woman, and she
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: knocks on the door. The elderly woman won't let her in,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: which I understand.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I doesn't know what's going on.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Right, You don't know if that's a ruse or what
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: to get some you know, someone to open your door.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: But that woman calls the police as well, so you've
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: got like three phone calls going to the police at
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: this time. Then Michael Pack, her driver, I guess, he
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: looks for her for a little bit and then he's
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: just like he can't find her. So he leaves and
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: drives back to Manhattan or wherever and leaves her behind.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: And then eventually the police show up. They can't find her,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and so this woman wears that's her disappearance. So the
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: man who she met with the client.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: She stayed in that house, I don't know. You know.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: That is what is so sad about the whole Shannon
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Gilbert case is that there are so many opportunities for
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: her to save herself, and I I don't understand what happened.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: It is such a mystery to me. Because one Michael
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Pack sees her and tries to get her in the car,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: and she doesn't jump in the car. She's inside of
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the neighbor's home and he tells her to wait here
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: as he calls the police, and she runs out the
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: front door again. And there's just these opportunities for her
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: to use.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Clearly, she was panicky.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Panicky, panicky, So Shannon Gilbert disappears. So the investigation begins
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: with a search for missing escort Shannon Gilbert, leading police
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: to uncover at least eleven sets of human remains, including
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: the so called Gilgo four, who were all found wrapped
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: in burlap and exhibited similar patterns of disposals. So what
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: happens is the police go, they search around, and they
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: can't find her, right, and then they kind of just
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: drop it and let it go.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Well, and the fact that she was just running around.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: She was running around.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: It's not like they said she was bloody or heard gunshots.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: It was just she was running around and then she.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Left, right. So then her mother's name is Mary, and
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: her mother is a huge advocate, and she is just
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: constantly out there saying where is my daughter? Where is
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: my daughter? She won't let it go, which I give
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: her credit for that. She kept it alive and she
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: kept it in the media. So the media is constantly,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: you know, talking about where Shannon Gilbert, what happened to her,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: what's going on. So the police do investigate again and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: do a very thorough search with dogs, and this is
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: when they find the four bodies on Gilgo beach. So
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: they're out walking around with dog, you know, dog cadaver dogs, Yes,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: thank you, and a dog signals and they find a body,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: and they find a body wrapped in burlap, and then
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: they're searching around and they find another body.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: I think the four bodies find three four, four, and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I think I read that they were half a mile
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: apart from each other.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Right, So they're all along this stretch of beach. They're
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: all similar as far as there are, the way of
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: they're disposed, the way they're wrapped in burlap, the way
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: they look, and the fact.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Known sex workers are believed to be well, were they
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Know, Yes, they all were, Okay, I mean once they
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: id them and they know that. But at the time
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: they just find force that's and remains that are in
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: a similar area. And this is all because they were
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: looking for Shannon Gilbert. Now, once those four bodies are id'd,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: not one of those women is Shannon Gilbert. However, they
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: do discover that they're all sex workers. They're all women,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: they're all in their twenties, and they're all petite. So
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: now it's like, okay, now we have a serial killer.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Because right because there's too many similarities right now, was
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert also described as they were like petit and whatnot? Yeah,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: so that's so does she fit that same fits.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: The same profile. So Shannon Gilbert was also a sex worker.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: She had she had postings on Craigslist that men would
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: respond to. She was also in her twenties, she was young,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: she was petite, so she fit that description. However, she
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: was not one of those four. But the search for Shannon,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: which was really dictated by her mom because I don't
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: think this police, Suffolk County police would probably not interested
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: in looking for her at all, if.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Not probably upset.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: We'll stop talking about it. We have to like go
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: out here now. The names of the go go for
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: are Melissa bartholemy Amber Costello, Megan Waterman, and Maureene Brainard Barnes.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: All of these women, like Shannon, worked as online escorts
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and went missing between two thousand and seven and twenty ten.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Let's just go through a timeline, because the timeline is
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: really important in this case, because there are large gaps
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of time where nothing happens at all.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Which is kind of one of the main issues, which.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Is a which is a main issue exactly. And then
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about why nothing was happening at all,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and then finally in the end, how they ended up
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: catching this guy, which is all very interesting. So in
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: May first, twenty ten, Shannon Gilbert disappears. She's traveling to
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Oak Beach. Now, one other thing about this client. When
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: they were investigating and searching for her, they did give
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: him a polygraph.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the john is known.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they know who he is. They went to his house,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: they questioned him. Apparently, they gave him a light detector tech.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: What was his story? What was his version of the events?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I couldn't there. There wasn't a lot
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: of detail about that, at least in what I've read
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: and what I saw. It was more of like he
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: doesn't know what happened, and she just kind of like
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: freaked out. He was trying to get her out of
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the house. He actually went to Michael Pack, the driver,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and said, can you get this girl out of my house?
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: So I so Michael Pack.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Says, well, that's I believe. That's what Michael Pack says.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And the guy they questioned, it was basically like he
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: was saying, get her she won't leave, get her out
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: of my house.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: But earlier you described it as she ran out. She did, so,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: did Michael Pa see her run out of the house.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know those The whole situation that night is
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: very convoluted and blurry for me. I don't know if
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: there's a clear picture of what actually happened with Shannon Gilbert.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: It was just you've got these players. You've got Michael
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Pack who drove her. You've got Shannon Gilbert who went
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: to Oak Beach for a client, and then you've got
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the client. You've got the client saying that she freaked
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: out in the house and that she was acting weird
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: and that he just wanted her to leave. And you've
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: got Michael Pack saying she's running around everywhere. I couldn't
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: catch her. I couldn't find her, so I just left.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: And then you've got a twenty minute nine to one
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: one call of her saying they're going to kill me.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. It's I mean, it's a mystery.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know what happened in that. I have no idea.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: What if Michael Pack and mister John were in cahoots
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: together and they are that they yeah, you know, not
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: that we have any facts to support that.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: We don't but I don't know, just throwing that out there. Yeah, now,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: this is my first of twenty ten. May through November
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: of twenty ten, little progress is made in finding Shannon,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: despite some searching by police and private investigators which were
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: hired by her own family. Gilbert remains missing. Four months now,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: December eleventh, twenty ten, the first body is found. That's
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: while searching for Gilbert's body along Ocean Parkway, a Suffolk
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: County Police officer and his cadaver dog discover human remains
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: near Gilgo Beach and then the remains. The first remains
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: are later identified as Melissa Bartholemy. Melissa Bartholomey went missing
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: on July tenth, two thousand and nine. She was a
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: twenty four year old sex worker and was last seen
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: at her apartment in the Bronx in New York City.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: She told her friend she was going to see a
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: man and that she will be back in the morning.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Cell Phone data from her phone puts her last known
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: location somewhere on Long Island. Days later, a man begins
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: using her cell phone to make taunting phone calls to
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: her relatives. That was another thing that this serial killer
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: did was. There were a couple instances where he would
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: use the girl's cell phone after the fact to call
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: their friends and family.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Too, to say get more recruitment or no, to.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Say like to taunt them to he's sadistic. I mean
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: he would say things like, do you know where your
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: sister is? And this is what I did to her?
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: And I saw your friend in a whorehouse and you
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: know Long Island.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: So after they discover Melissa, who was the first person,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: they discover three more bodies in Gilgo Beach. It's Marine
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, and Amberlin Castello. Their remains were
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: located within a short distance of each other in the
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: brush just off the highway and had all been wrapped
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: in burlap sacks. Then there were other remains found in
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: a different part of Lowe Island, and they did not
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: initially think that.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: They would not make a connection.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Initially, not initially because they were not wrapped in burlap.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: It was different. They were dismembered. They found dismembered parts,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: So it was like, you know, normally, I'm just speaking
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: from a serial killer perspective. I'm trying to put all
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: your experience, my experience as a serial killer.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: They do the same things, right, I would think so.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: So when you find four bodies that are wrapped in burlap.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Saying significantly different ones kind of neatly wrapped or using
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: on a word neatly loosely and the other one's clearly gruesome.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Right, so they were thinking these are two different I
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: would have thought so things. Marine Brainerd Barnes, who was
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: one of the Go Go four, was last heard from
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: by a friend on July ninth, two thousand and seven.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: She was twenty five and had traveled to New York
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: City from her home in Norwich, Connecticut for sex work.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: She said she was leaving her hotel to meet a client.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Investigators later say cell phone records showed her phone was
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: last used on Long Island.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of wishing we're going backwards. They're finding
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: these They were looking for, uh, Shannon.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: They're looking for Shannon.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Shannon initially right in twenty ten, right because she goes
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: missing in twenty ten. But then as a result they
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: found four bodies that went back further as far as
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: they're missing dates exactly. And then the Long Island bodies
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: they find that were dismembered are even further back, even.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Further back into the nineties. Right wow. So Maureene was
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: a single mother of two. Her sister named MISSI, received
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: a call from Marine the night of July ninth from
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Penn Station in Midtown, Manhattan. In an interview in twenty twenty,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the sister told forty eight Hours Marine said she was
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: going to take the train at midnight, and then her
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: sister never saw or heard from Marine again. Another victim
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: is named Megan Waterman. Megan Waterman was twenty two and
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: had traveled to Long Island from Maine for sex work.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: She was last seen at a motel in Hoppage, New York,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: on June sixth, twenty ten. Lilliana Waterman was just three
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: years old when her mother disappeared, and her first televised
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: interview in twenty twenty, the daughter told forty eight Hours
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: that if she could talk to her mom, she would
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: tell her how much she loves her. Now. Amber Costello
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: ends up being the reason that they catch the serial killer,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: so she just it's her. Her story is just more
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: in depth because twenty seven year old Amberline Castello was
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: last seen leaving her home in Wes, Babylon to meet
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: with a client on September second of twenty ten. The
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: client asked her to leave her phone in Purson home
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and return for a very hefty fee.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Supposedly, that's a flag if I ever saw one.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Supposedly the fee, this is what I've learned, was fifteen
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars, but it was six times her hourly rate.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: So I don't know why, Like, under what scenario would
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: would she think that that's a like a like he's kinky,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: he doesn't want cell phones around, Like, I don't know,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I just i'd be like money up front, dude. Yeah,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: there's the probably didn't even have the fifteen.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: There's so many times when you read these stories and
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: these decisions that these women made that you're just so
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: sad because.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: There's staring dire straits trying to survive just you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: ye stay alive with roof of.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: What's interesting about Amberlyn Costello. Her story is that she
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: had met with this same client a couple weeks prior
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: and he had come to her house. Now, Amberlind Costello
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: lives with roommates and one of them his name is
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Dave Shaller, and the other one is name Bear Brodski,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: two males. She meets with the same client, the same
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: one who offered her to hefty fee. She had met
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: with him weeks prior to that, and he had come
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: to the house and Dave and Bear were not there.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: She was home alone. Apparently the arrangement was she was
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: only supposed to dance for this client. She was not
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: supposed to have sex with him that evening. However, he
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: wanted to have sex with her, and I guess he
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: was getting handsy with her instead of just doing like
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: a lap dance or whatever. And she locked herself in
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the bathroom and she calls her roommate. They come home
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: and they encounter this guy inside the house and they say,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: he's like a six foot four ogre looking guy. He's huge,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: he's tall, he's got these seventy style glasses on. He's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: got bushy hair, he's got beady eyes. They have a
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: kind of an altercation with them, or they're like get
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: out of the house and they're like pushing him out.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Glasses on you no, like seventy style glasses, Like he
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: had a very distinct look. Yeah like that. Okay, yeah,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: it's the serial killer glasses. You get him at the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: serial killer shower, right right, so they see him, they
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: have an altercation with him, and these two roommates of
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: hers are physically pushing him out and they say that
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: like he was freaky. They got bad vibes from him.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I saw that part. So you were watching this in bed,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: because that's what you do at night, you watch She
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: watched True Crime in bed. Then she falls asleep to
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: it and leaves it on all night long, and then
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: she wonders why she has anxiety throughout the day. Anyway,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I did, and I remember they were saying how he
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: almost covered the whole like filled the whole door frame. Yeah,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: and they said, like I guess they were trying to
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: make contact with them or tell them to leave or
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: whatever they were doing. But they said he would never
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: make eye contact with them, like he was looking through
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: them or past them, and never took his eyes off
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: of her right like he was he had a target.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: They get him out of the house and he gets
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: into an Avalanche, which, by the way, is a very
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: It's what were you saying earlier, if you're going to
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: be a serial killer, what kind of car should you drive?
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Not an avalanche?
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: No, you should drive like a like a gray, bluish
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: medium size suv.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Because it's just because then it's like generic.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: And what was he driving?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: What color was it? Well, it was like a black
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: or dark or gray? What kind of car was it?
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It's like a minivan suv Like you can't.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: So you're saying that's the most generic.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, one's gonna be like it was a charcoal
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: gray raft four right, yeah, no one's.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Well, this guy gets into an avalanche and it's they
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: they called a first generation avalanche. But is there a
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: second generation avalanche?
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like they ended it with the first generation avalanche.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Then after this occurs, the same guy, the same client
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: that they had kicked out that night, reaches back out
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: to Amber Cassello again, and this is when he pays
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: her a hefty fee to come and meet him.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Wait wait, this same John reaches out to her and
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: wants a second a follow up like yes, session, yes,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: but this time without oh yeah, and and removed the
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: locks from the bathroom door, please for next to fifteen dollars.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And make sure your roommates aren't home.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: No kidding.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: So that's when she.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Leaves, and I'm not faulting her, but she agreed to this.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so the roommate, Dave knows that she meets this client.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: He knows that he drives an avalanche. That's the last
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: time she's ever seen or heard from.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Again, did she leave herself at home?
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: She did? Yeah. So now Dave interviews with the police
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: and he tells the police this is when she disappears
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: in twenty ten. Right, he tells the police exactly what happened.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: The guy was creep me out. He's six foot four,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: he drives an avalanche. It's dark green like. He gives
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: specific details as to the last person that he saw
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: her with.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: However, nothing happens for like twelve years or something. Anyway,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: let's go on through this timeline. So March to April
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: of twenty eleven, there's further remains that are found. So
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: authorities widen their search and find additional remains, including a toddler,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: an Asian male, and skulls and limbs linked to partial
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: remains found years earlier. The scope of the case grows, now,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: involving multiple victims with varying backgrounds.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Male and female. Clothing too or something I thought I saw.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is true, and that's what makes me
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: because when you say, okay, well, one's a male that
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, that doesn't fit the profile. But allegedly
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: or apparently according to what I've read and what they've revealed,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: was that he was dressed in women's clothing. The toddler, though,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense other than all I could think was
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: maybe she brought her kid with her for some reason. Yeah,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: because her profile fits as far as like age and
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you know, heighten, like all those there. But her daughter
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: ended up being a.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Victims as well, collateral damage.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Right, So there's a Jane Doe number five, who later
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: is identified as Jessica Taylor. First, partial skeletal remains of
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Jessica Taylor were discovered in a wooded area of Manorville,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: New York, back on July twenty sixth, two thousand and three.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Then on March twenty ninth of twenty eleven, more of
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Taylor's remains were discovered along Ocean Parkway. She was twenty
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: when she vanished and had been an escort working in
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: New York City. She was found dismembered, with identifying tattoos
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: mutilated in an apparent attempt to obscure her identity. So
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the question is are these are these body parts that
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: are found later in a different area. It's called Manorville,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: but it's still on Long Island. You know, initially they
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: thought it was two different serial killers. However, the argument
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: can be made, and I think this was said that
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: serial killers.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Evolve like like they get bored.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: They changed, they you know, they hone in their.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Skills or they they venture out into new Yeah, they
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: ways of killing.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Right, So there you go, Jane do.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who because a lot of time has passed.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So Jane Doe number six, who has later
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: identified as Valerie Mac. First, the partial skeletal remains a
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Valerie Mac are found who had been working as an
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: escort in Philadelphia, and her remains were found in a
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: wooded area in Manorville, New York. This is in September
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of two thousand. The twenty four year old was last
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: seen by her family in the spring or summer of
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: the year two thousand in Port Republic, New Jersey. Then,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: on April fourth, twenty eleven, additional remains of Valerie Mac
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: were found along Ocean Parkway. Okay, so these bodies that
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: were actually found after the GILG four, they were actually
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: murdered before they just there.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: They were just discussed.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: The remounks who were discovered after, However, they were murdered first.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: So the question is, because now we know that it
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: was all the same person in the beginning, when he
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: was murdering people, he was dismembering them. Then when you
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: find the Gilgo four who were murdered later, he's wrapping
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: them in burlap. So that's the evolution. And you were
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: saying that maybe it was just too it was too
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: much work.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just remember, I don't think of this. Yeah,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: maybe it was gruesome. Maybe you really I don't know.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe who knows? Who knows what goes
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: on in these people's heads, because I don't know, why
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: would you even wrap them in burlap? Like, why would
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: you if you have no you know, regard for human life,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: You're just going to kill these people, Why would you
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: even bother wrapping them up?
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. That's a question for us here.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: What is there? Obviously they had some reason, what is
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: their thinking?
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. And you know what else
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And I don't know if this was
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: ever figured out because I didn't see it or read
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: it or hear it anywhere, but I don't know where
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the actual killings took place because he discards their body
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: throughout Long Island, but where is he actually killing them?
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: We're trying to make sense out of psychos.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: That's very true, kind of tough. So then there was
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: another victim that was killed earlier than the go go
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: for but found later than the go go for. Was
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: first they called her Peaches because she had an identifying
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: tattoo of peaches on her. She was later identified as
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Tanya Jackson. She was an army veteran. The thing is,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: she doesn't fit the sex worker scenario. But this was
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: also in nineteen ninety seven, so again.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I met the male didn't either, So maybe this guy
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: just calls him up and whatever. You know, he has
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: a certain like but if they send someone else or
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: ends up being a little bit, he's not going to
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: be like, never mind, I'm not going to kill you
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: because you're not fatigued.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Well, the way it looks to me as we go
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: through these these earlier murders that happened where these body
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: parts were dismembered and they were found in a different
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: area of Long Island, seems to me that's when maybe
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: he didn't know exactly what he was doing. He didn't
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: have like, he.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Wasn't systematic, he didn't have a plan.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's later when the gil go for are
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: discovered that it's systematic. It's like very similar. He has it,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: he has it down. He like contacts a sex worker
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: from an anonymous email. He meets them. They all look
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the same, they're all young, they're all petite. He wraps
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: them in burlap. It's like in the beginning, maybe maybe chaotic.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: You know, you get older, and he started to get lazy.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: He's lazy, so he's like, I'm this just memory thing.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: It's really tolling.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: One, it might be sex workers because it's easy to
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: contact them and they come to me absolutely. And Two,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of these women that.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Are already off the grid right that.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Are sex workers are probably sex workers because they might
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: have had a falling out with family and.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Like they're on the streets for lack of better ways.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they're petite, so it's easy for me
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: to over you know, to overtake them very easily. And
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: you know, anyway, and was.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: A bag, I got potato sack.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: That's what burlap is.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, so that maybe to fit in the burlap.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe all right. Baby Doe is another body that's found.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: That's the toddler that was found and it's later identified
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: as Tanya Jackson's daughter. Near so near the remains of
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Valerie Mac, investigators also find the remains of a two
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: year old girl later identified through DNA as Tatiana Dykes,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: who is Tanya Jackson's daughter. She was found wrapped in
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a blanket and showed no signs so trauma.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: She probably brought her child, she needed to. She was
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: watching over them her, yeah, and then unfortunately the child
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: mad man just killed her too.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: John Doe who was still unidentified up to right now
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: in present time. His body was found on April fourth,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: twenty eleven along Ocean Parkway. He is believed to be
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: an Asian male, possibly in his late teens or early twenties,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: and he was found wearing women's clothes and the cause
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: of death was blunt force trauma. And then there is
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: another unidentified body, Jane Doe, number seven. Her skull was
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: found on April eleventh, twenty eleven, off of Ocean Parkway.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: It matched a pair of legs which were found in
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: April of nineteen ninety six on Fire Island, which is
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: east of Gilgo Beach, Okay.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: So it's fair to say that in simple terms, they
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: find the four bodies as a result of Shannon's mother
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: pressing for.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Looking for Shannon.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: For her search, they find four bodies that are all similar.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Then they search even further and sometime later they find
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: older murdered bodies that were completely in a different fashion.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Murdered and dismembered and spread out, and.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: So they didn't make the connection between the two.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Well, originally the police chief comes out and does like
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: a press conference and says, we don't think that they're
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: really so, but they end up figuring out later that
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: they are. So finally we get to the point where
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: we have found they find Shannon Gilbert. Finally, Oh okay, good,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: So after good, she's dead, well, she's she is dead.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: So in December thirteenth of twenty eleven, Shannon Gilbert's body
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: is finally found.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Not long after, after a year and a half.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Of searching, police locate Shannon Gilbert's remains in a marsh
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: about a half mile from where she was last seen
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: in Oak Beach. Her body is found near her belongings,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: which had been discovered earlier. Police were reluctant to search
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the marsh for a long time, claiming that it was
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: a difficult task. Ultimately, Suffolk County Police declared Gilbert's death accidental,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: suggesting that she died from drowning or exposure after a
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: mental health episode.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: So in a marsh. Yeah, it was out there in
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: a marsh, like just chilling and then they drown.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Well, they they claim that her death was accidental and
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: not part of this you know, serial killer, because she
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: was found in the marsh. And they refuse to search
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: the marsh in the beginning because they said it was
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: too marshy, and they the marshy, and they didn't want
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: to take you know, people and equipment and things out there. Well,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: the mother good for her being relentless. They actually did
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: finally search this marsh, which was right in the area
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: where she disappeared, right it's right next to the house
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: where she was. They find her and she has no
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: pants on, so they find her genes, they find I
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: think a purse or a wallet, and then they find
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the body. But then they declare it as an accidental death,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: like she just got hypothermia or something. And then they
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: also say something.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: It's just like, oh, like she pants off and it
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: was an accidental death.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that you know, they said, you know, sometimes
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: when you have a hypothermia, you get hot, you feel
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: like you're hot, So she probably took her pants off
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: because she was hot.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, someone's in a marsh to begin with.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: This girl's not out running around scared for her life,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: like knocking on doors and screaming, and then just and
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: takes her pants off in a marsh like, clearly to me,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: it looks like foul play. The medical examiner said that
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: she died. I don't know. I think they might have
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: even said inconclusive, but they did not say that there
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: was foul play or a homicide. So Shannon Gilbert's mom,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Mary Gilbert, has her own independent counsel and then they
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: have their own medical exam examine the body, so an
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: independent autopsy this is done. Later suggested that possible homicidal
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: strangulation had occurred, further fueling speculation that she was a
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: victim of the same killer. Here's the thing, so she's
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: in the house with the John who is not the
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: serial killer that killed all of these other women, or
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: allegedly he's going on trial soon but allegedly killed all
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: these other people. It is not the same person and
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: he has not been known to work in kahoots anyone else.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: So it is such a mystery as to what happened
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: in that house that night that she freaks out, calls
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: nine to one one, says they're trying to kill me.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Runs around in the same area where all these other
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: women have been murdered who are sex workers. She's a
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: sex worker and she fits the profile. They find her
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: dead in a marsh and then they claim it was
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: an accidental death.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: It's just this a sloppy police work apparently.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: So. Mary Gilbert, the mother of Shannon Gilbert, who was
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: pressing the entire time for the police to find her daughter,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: was murdered in twenty sixteen by her other daughter who
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: stabbed her like two hundred and fifty times. Wow. Yes,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: And they did not bring that up in the documentary.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: They I think there was some little blurb that like,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Mary had died before they had found the serial killer,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: so she never knew. So I looked it up. I
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: was like, how did this woman die? Because I feel
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: like they just kind of they made Mary in this documentary.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I want to made.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Did they make it seem like she just passed.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, so in this documentary I watch, that's that's significant. Yeah,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: And I was thinking to myself, what is the reason
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: that they didn't bring that up in this documentary because
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Mary was heavily a part of this documentary and there
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: was a whole movie, like a like a docu saries
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: made about her and Shannon, And all I could think
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: was maybe they didn't want to highlight.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: They didn't want to take away from the what they investigator,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: or the show was originally covering the investigation of these
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: murdered bodies and then to kind of have all these
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: side murders going on, or.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: They didn't want to take away like from the family
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: because Mary presented like that she was just like really
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: you know, they were all really concerned about the daughter
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: and they were looking for her and they were like
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: this unit. And then to find out that she was
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: murdered by her other daughter, like, maybe that just took
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: away from this.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: So where's this Sarah Gilbert?
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Now she's in prison. She got like she got second
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: degree murder and fourth degree something. Her defense claimed she
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: had schizophrenia, So I think there was some lesser charge
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: because she had mental health issue or something. But anyway,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: that was not in the documentary, and I don't so
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: anyway I thought that was I thought that was something
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: that well, it.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Kind of paints a little bit more of a picture
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: of the family, know what's going on and the troubles
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: they're having.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: The question is why did it take until twenty twenty
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: two to figure out who the Long Island killer was?
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: So we got from basically twenty ten, well they were.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Found twenty ten, twenty eleven, yeah, and then it goes
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: all the way to twenty twenty seven years. So there's
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: eleven years where apparently maybe there's some investigation going on,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: but no one.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Well there couldn't have been much investigation going on because
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: ten years nothing really happens, right.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: So here's what people think, and this was in the documentary,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: and this makes a lot of sense that there was
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: so much corruption within the Suffolk County Police Department. That
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: is the reason why that these murders were not investigated.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: So the chief of Police at the time was James Burke,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: and he was actively blocking the FBI from assisting in
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: the Gilgo Beach case. So when the bodies of the
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Gilgo four and other victims were discovered. There was clear
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: potential for a multi jurisdictional serial killer investigation. And what
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: that means is, this is when you collaborate. Right, you
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: have a serial killer on Long Island, So what do
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: you do. You need to collaborate. You bring in the FBI,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you bring in the state police, you bring in private investigators,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: you work together. But James Burke, who was the chief
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: of police at the time, was actively shutting everyone out. Right,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: He's like, we don't need the FBI, we don't need
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: the state police.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: We don't need to stop taking finger prints, we don't.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Need anything else, we don't need any help. So the
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: FBI offered assistance early on in this case, including a
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: behavioral analysis, advance forensics, a missing persons report, which is
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: all standard and very complex serial killer cases. However, Burke
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: flatly rejected any federal involvement. There was also, you know,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: they also talk about how there was just a blanket
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: you know, memo that went around to the entire Suffolk
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: County Police Department that basically forbid anyone to speak about
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: the case with the FBI, with other departments.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: And what's the basis for that? Doesn't anyone question that.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I think there was so much corruption and the DA
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: was corrupt as well. So I think you've got these
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: higher ups in the chain of command. You got the
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: top dogs at the very top, and they're making all
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: the calls and no one's questioning it because they don't want.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: To be on their radar investigating and das prosecuting.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Right. According to multiple law enforcement sources and later investigations,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Burke personally ensured that the FBI was pushed out of
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: the case when he became chief in twenty twelve. He
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: reportedly feared that the FBI agents would uncover his own
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: misconduct and that they would gain access to sensitive files.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: This is where it all starts to come as get
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: to the right stuff. Christopher Lobe broke into Burke's car
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: in twenty twelve and stole a Duffel bag. That can
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: he's stills.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Unrelated crime, right, just a guy's opportunity, guy a Duffel bag.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And right, he's a drug addict, so he's going around.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: You know, is there anyone sober in Long Island?
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, so Christopher Lobe is a drug addict from Long Island.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she has what years was she there?
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but anyway, back to Christopher Low. He
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: is a drug addict and he is looking for he's
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: breaking into cars because he's you know, looking for stuff
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: to sell to get money for drugs. A better place
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: to look than he breaks into the Suffolk County Police
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: chiefs vehicle. It's an suv.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: He's an avalanche.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: She's not a green avalanche. No, it's not. He steals
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: a Duffel bag. He takes it home. He's like going
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: through it and it has sex toys and porn. But
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: then it has like you know, doesn't have an idea
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: or anything. Yeah, it has something that I identifies that
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: like he's the.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Chief of Badge.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: It's not as badge, but he does have there's like
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: like business cards in it that are like chief of police.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: So when the bag is recovered, because obviously this guy's
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: like my car got broken into, and you know, the
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: police are investigating to find the guy, they bring him
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: in the bag gets recovered, Burke has him in the
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: you know what is that the witness room or whatever,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you know, interrogation room, the interrogation room, and he beats
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: the crap out of him. He busts him up, you know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: punches him in the face. I apparently stomps on him.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: You know, It's funny, is how he's like, murders that
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: that duffel bag.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, we're gonna find it.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, spare no expense. Get the FBI and fault get
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: that fast.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: So Burke assaulted Christopher Christopher Lobe during questioning and then
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: orchestrated a cover up, instructing officers to lie to the
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: FBI and alter official reports. So the FBI actually did
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: come in and investigate this, and they they said they
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: got it was like called a blue wall. I guess
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: that's when police all kind of banned together and refused
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: to speak. So that's what they were up against. They
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: couldn't get anyone.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: To come callall.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: They called it like a blue wall. Like a blue wall,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: like that was what they were up against. They're trying to,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: you know, they're innate table like what happened, you know,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: and they just they're a blue wall, like no one
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: was speaking. So basically what happened with Burke making all
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: these decisions, he blocked the FBI. He delayed key forensic progress,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: particularly in the DNA analysis data tracking from the cell phones.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: You know, they're working on putting all this stuff together
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: and geographic profiling, but federal resources that could have identified
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: pattern behavior, a suspect profile, or putting together evidence were
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: not allowed. So he basically was just like, no one
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: is allowed to have anything to do with this case.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: We don't want we don't want cell phone data, we
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: don't want forensics, we don't want a profile, like, we
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: don't need any of this. I guess from my perspective
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: watching it, he is involved with sex workers. There was
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: a woman that came forward that said that he had
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: hired her for sex, for oral sex or something in
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: the car, And I think, I don't think that James
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Burke is involved in the actual serial killer part of
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: this story.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Sex worker and he's.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Involved in the sex worker industry. So this went on
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: from twenty eleven until twenty twenty two. What is sad
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: about this corruption and how deep it goes. The DA
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: was involved in it too. I mean, Burke ends up
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: being prosecuted and he goes to jail. The DA ends
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: up being prosecuted because he's involved in all of this corruption.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: He goes to jail. But there is a twelve year
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: time period where they could have been investigating the serial killer,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: and they don't. Oh yeah, because he's done everything possible
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: to block anyone from having anything to do with this
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: case just because they have a long history of corruption.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go into it. But Burke and
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: the DA have a history that goes back to when
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Burke was like sixteen years old and has to do
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: with another case and another murder. And that's when you
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: go in.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: He's got to fire everyone and start all over.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Right. So, as we were saying, James Burke was the
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: police chief, the DA was Thomas Spoda. They worked closely together.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Spoda was a longtime political ally and mentor to Burke.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: They have a long history together. He supported Burke's rise
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: to police chief. By the way, his rise to police
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: chief was like ridiculously fast. Spoda was the DA. I
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: think he helped him rise up to police chief. Spoda
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: aided in Burke's twenty twelve cover up and worked to
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: intimidate witnesses, suppress evidence, encourage officers to lie to federal investigators,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: and to also coordinate the cover up. James Burke and
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Thomas Spodo were later arrested. So James Burke was indicted
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen and pleaded guilty to civil rights violations
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: and conspiracy to obstruct justice. On November two, twenty sixteen,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: he was sentenced to forty six months in prison and
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: three years of supervised release. Now Thomas Spoda, who was
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: the DA, was indicted in twenty seventeen on federal charges
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: including obstruction of justice, conspiracy to tamper with witnesses accessories
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: after the fact, to civil rights violations, and on August tenth,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, Spoda was sentenced to five years in
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: federal prison and fined one hundred thousand dollars. James Burke
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: was arrested again in twenty twenty three at a park
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: in Farmingville, Long Island, as part of a prostitution sting
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: conducted by Suffolk County park rangers. I think he tried
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: to get a park ranger to I don't know, perform
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: oral sex or something, and he then when the officer
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: called police or whatever, he was like. He kept reportedly
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: trying to use his status by saying, don't you know
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: who I am? And he claimed that the arrests would
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: be public humiliation for him, but they he was arrested anyway.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: He was charged with public lewdness and decent exposure and
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: initially also criminal solicitation and offering a sex act. So
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: basically what this comes down to is there's eleven year
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: gap where no one's doing anything on a serial murder
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: case in Long Island because all that's going on in
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: this Suffolk County Police Department is corruption. And clearly, again
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think James Burke has anything to do with
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: the murders, and neither does the DA. Murders these murders
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: and neither does the DA. It has to do with
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: his behavior.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was a conflict of interest.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: It was a conflict of ventures.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: It's like, I don't want to destroy the sex worker industry.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Doesn't need the FBI investigating sex workers when he is
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: involved with the sex workers, So he does everything possible
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: for eleven years to keep the FBI and any other
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: federal agency out of Suffolk County. He doesn't investigate it,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: nothing happens for all these years. The thing that is
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: sad is not only is he corrupt and he's just
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: a horrible person, and so is the DA. But do
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: we know do you think that the serial killer during
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: these eleven years did not have any other victims?
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Right? And what other murders and mishaps, and you know,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: issues are happening in the sex work with all these
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: sex workers, right and you know what else cracking down
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: on it.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I thought this was really interesting. This case could have
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: been solved sooner because they interview another sex worker that
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: ended up having a dinner date with Rex Huerman, who
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: ends up being the alleged serial killer that we're going
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: to talk about in a little bit how they found him.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: But she has dinner with him and he's so creepy,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: creeps her out so much that she texts a friend
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: and says, meet me in the parking lot. I'm leaving
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: this dinner date because he was obsessed with talking about
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: the gil Go murders. And she said to her friend,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I think I just had dinner with the gil Go
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: you know, serial killer. Now. The problem was when they
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: asked her in the interview, if you thought that that
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: was him, and you were creeped out by this guy,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: why did you not go to the police, And she's like,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: how can I go to the police. I'm a sex worker, right, right, right.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing that was interesting to me. When
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: they posed the question, they said, well, if the police
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: would have reached out to sex workers like some type
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: of invitation and said, we're not going to prosecute any
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: of you, we just want to get information about this
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: serial killer. Could you come forward and there'll be no repercussions.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Would you have done that? And she said absolutely. The
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: reason I never said anything was because I'm on probation.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: Right right, I get that. I get that.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: So to me, I was like, what a simple solution
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: that if the police department wasn't so corrupt and they
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: just issued something that said, look, there is a serial killer,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: he is targeting sex workers. We can find him if
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: these sex workers will come forward and tell us what
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: they know without any repercussions of being arrested or shamed
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: or humiliated or identified. You right, just come forward. This
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: could have been solved.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: You're ago, who knows what other crimes and what other
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: crap this police officer allowed the police department to overlook
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: and ignore and let happen and continue. And this guy's
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: you know, he's getting taxpayer money and then he's using
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: it on sex workers and yeah, I mean, and you
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: know he's not being respectful towards them.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: The corruption is unreal in this police department, all right, Anyway,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: let's get to the final piece of this puzzle. How
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: do we finally how do they finally find Rex Huerman
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: who is allegedly the serial killer they how do they
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: get to this point?
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: He found God going forward and confess.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: To all this crimes, right, but that is not what happened.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: So Rex Huerman is a fifty nine year old husband
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: and father of two who was arrested on July thirteenth
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three. This is recent, like this serial killer.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: This is what is so interesting about this case is
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: it's I mean, this guy's been killing since then.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Coberg was before he got arrested.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Right, and he gets arrested in twenty twenty three. So
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: a little background on him. Huerman was an architect who
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: founded the New York City firm RH Consultants and Associates.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: He spent his time working in the city while living
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: in his childhood home in New Jersey with his wife.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: This house that he grew up in in Long Island
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: is the house that he has now like with his
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: wife Asa, she's from Iceland. And then he's got two
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: weird kids and this house on Long Island in massa
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Pequoke Park area is dilapidated. The guy's an architect, so
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: you would think he would have some type of pride
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: and like the abode that he lives in. But this
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: house is completely dilapidated. It has not been Yeah, but.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: He's also married and he's not faithful to her. I
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: mean you're acting like, you know, he's an upstand, like
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: he's not gonna I know, but.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: I say, I'm yeah, but I'm saying that get rid
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: of the ethics and the morals and the value. It's
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: like he's a psychopath, Like that's a given. I'm just saying,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: the dudes an architect, at least have some pride in
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: your home. I mean, his house hasn't been updated or
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: fixed or in sixty years. It's like the i sore
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: of the community. It's just this ugly, dilapidated, falling down, dark, dirty,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: ugly house.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: Where the neighbors' homes like nice.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, all the neighbors homes are nice and their yards
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: are nice. And then there's just him.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: So he looks like a serial killer.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, and people, even like the neighbors would even you know,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: thought he was creepy and weird. I mean he lives
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I mean he takes his identity as a serial killer
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: very I mean all the way to his house, all right.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: So anyway, how does Rex Yureman finally get caught. What
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: happens is a new commissioner comes into the Suffolk County
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: and it's been twelve years since the gil Go four
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: were found. The new commissioner's name is Rodney Harrison, and
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: he creates a task force to find the serial killer. First,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: the thing that they do, which is brilliant, No one
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: else did this because they were too busy, you know,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: James Burke and the DA are too busy being corrupt.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: They digitize all of the documents and evidence that has
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: to do with this case so it can be easily searchable,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: and they had never.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Done that right around among various investigators.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Right, So they have a task force. They start collaborating,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: right because they know in order to find the serial killer,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: they actually do need to work with the FBI, and
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: they do need to work with investigators, and they do
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: need to work with state police. So they digitize all
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: the documents, they start searching through it because now it's
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: easily searchable. And what do they come across as they're
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: searching through this? They come across the interview that had
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: to do with Amber Costello and her roommate Dave back
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: in what was it when she disappeared in two thousand
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: and ten or eleven, whatever it was, where he says,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: the last person I saw her with with this was
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: this big, tall dude with be the eyes that was
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: six foot four, that had the you know, serial killer
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: glasses on, that drove the avalanche and it was dark green.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: So what do they do search for someone that fits
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: that physical description that drives an avalanche? And where do
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: they come up with Rex Hereerman's name?
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: There you go? You know how long it took them,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Well a matter of weeks.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Six weeks, Yeah, six weeks to come up with Rex
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Hereman's name. Once they came up with Rex's name, what
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: do they do? They start? You know, the DA is
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: issuing like subpoenas everywhere, right, they're they're but this is
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: all secret. He doesn't know that they're investigating them, and
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: nobody knows that they have his name. This is all secret,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: This is all under wraps. But they're looking at his
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: emails and he still, you know, has all these anonymous
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: emails where he's reaching out to sex workers. They get
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: they know he has burner phones. He has like seven
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: different burner phones. So what they do is they're they're
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: creating a chart on a map where his burner phones
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: are active the same time his regular cell phone is active.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: So we know he has burner phones, and we know
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: that's how he contacts the workers using a burner. Then
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: they create you know, what they call a box where
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: these burner phones are only in this Massapequa area, and
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: then the burner phones are always only in this midtown area.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: So now they know that it's this person, this killer
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: is going back and forth between Massapequa and midtown Manhattan.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: And then right and then lo and behold.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Rex Huerman works in midtown Manhattan and also lives in Massapequa.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: So like everything's just lining up. Once they have this
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: guy's name, it's like all the boxes are checking right.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: The burner phones, his phone. You know, when the murders
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: took place, his family was on vacation. They can do
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: a timeline and figure out that, like he his family
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: isn't involved in any of these murders because he's murdering
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: when they're gone, and they can figure all of that out.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: So everything's lining up anyway, then they're like, okay, we
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: want to we got to get this guy, right, but
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: we have to make sure we have all the evidence
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: against him. And they want to get him quickly because
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: they got to get this guy off the street. So
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: they need DNA evidence. So what do they say. You
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: can get his DNA as long as it's something that
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: he discards, right, because there's no expectation of privacy. If
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: you take a drink and you discard something, you throw
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: it away, you're allowed to search it. That was the
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: same thing they did with Coburger. They followed him and
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: tailed him until they threw the trash out, and then
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: they took his trash and they tested the DNA. So
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: they tail rex he or men. He's walking around, he's
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: eating pizza. He throws away a box of pizza. They
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: grabbed the pizza, They take the crust. It has DNA
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: on it. They run the DNA and it comes back
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: that the DNA matches the hairs that they found on
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: the bodies. So now they've got it all and then
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: they send a force and to arrest him and they
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: that's how they find him. They found him in six weeks.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: I think the first meeting of that task force. That
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: new task force in twenty twenty two was February first,
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: and by March fourteenth they had had his name and
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: and all the evidence and DNA and everything. So and
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: they also found which is disturbing, but they also found that,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: you know, he did a lot of Google searches that
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: had to do with very sadistic things and keeping track
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: of the case.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: And now he's in he's locked up.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: He is locked up. He does not have a trial
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: date at this time. He was initially charged with the
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: murders of three of the Gilg fours. So he was
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: initially charged with the murder of Melissa, Megan and Amber. However,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: over the following year prosecutors expanded that indictment and in
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: January of twenty twenty four, he was charged also in
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: the death of Marine Brainerd Barnes. In June of twenty
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: twenty four, he was indicted concerning the murders of Jessica
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Taylor and Sandra Costilla, which was a very early murder
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: back in the nineties. And then in December of twenty
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: twenty four he was charged in connection with the death
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: of Valerie Mack. So at this point in time, I
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: believe that he is charged with seven murders. He maintains
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: his innocence and he's entered a not guilty plea. So
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: that's where we're at. We're waiting for a trial date
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: on him. The prosecution has DNA evidence. Notably we talked
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: about a hair found on the hair was found on
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Megan Waterman. They also searched his home and I'm sure
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: and they also dug up his backyard because I'm sure
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: they're looking for more bodies, right, And they're searching his home,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: probably looking for DNA evidence of these women to see
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: if he killed anyone inside of the house.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Imagine if that someone comes knocking the door and they're like,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: your husband's a murder. We're here to arrest him.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: No, and they I mean they did, you would like yeah,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: And they tell me I need to leave because they
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: have to search the house, and then they're going to
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: dig up the backyard because they're looking for bodies.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, who did I who is this man?
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Well? That's I mean, I knew he.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Was weird, but this is a whole different level.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, as far as his wife is concerned, I
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: think her first statement was something like, it can't be
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: my husband there's no way he could have done things
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: like this like she would.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: But I'm asking you me, I, what would you do?
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I would divorce you. I mean there's that let's
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: just go there. I would leave you a few No,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I feel like there's a serial killer clause
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: that just kind of, you know, nullifies that. But so
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: when investigators they took like three hundred firearms from his house.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so he did not update his house at all,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: no new carpet, no remodeling. It's a completely dilapidated house.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: But he had over three hundred firearms in the basement.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: They dug up the backyard, but they didn't find any
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: bodies or anything. And I'm not sure if they found
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: any kind of DNA evidence that linked him to any
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: of these women. I don't think. I don't think he
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: was murdering the women in his house. When they searched
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: his home, they also recovered a deleted Microsoft word file
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: from a hard drive that was seized from his home.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: The document was a carefully structured blueprint of serial murder planning,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: with sections labeled problems, supplies, and dump sites and targets.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: It detailed specific steps and lessons for future offenses including
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: remove head in hands, hit harder, use heavier rope next time.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: You know, this is what we talked about earlier, where
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: when the older bodies that were found were different, they
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: were killed differently, and they were dismembered than the newer bodies.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: And then that makes sense that he was actually keeping
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: track of better ways to murder people. He was, I mean,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: he was making a list, like his serial killer to
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: do lists. So the defense says that they have challenged
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: the admissibility of his DNA evidence, arguing that the methods
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: used are not yet widely accepted in court. I think
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: I read that this court in New York that would
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: be trying him that they've never used this type of
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: DNA sequencing before and therefore it's not reliable. Like that's
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: what the that's what the defense is going with. His
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: legal team has also asked the court to separate the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: charges into multiple trials instead of combining all counts into
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: one serial killer case, citing concern of jury prejudice. Prosecutors
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: are opposed to this, arguing the cases share common evidence
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: and methodology. The judge has yet to issue final rulings,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: and no trial date has been set, though it is
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: tentatively expected that he will go to trial in late
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five or early twenty twenty six, so obviously
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: we will continue to follow the trial. I mean it's
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: been it's so interesting. I mean to see a trial
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: of a serial killer. I mean, the Karen Reid trial
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: was interesting, and then I thought Coburger was going to
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: go on trial, and that was interesting. And now we
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: just have a psychopath it's going to go on trial.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: I like the cases, the true crime cases where it's
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: just like one and done, like one one incident, like
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: the one the Karen Reid won.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: You mean, you like just one point of contact and
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: can then you just analyze that.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: Instead of like, so this guy is leaving people in
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: body parts all over the place, and then it took
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: ten years and the police officers corrupt and all that.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well I it's but it's an interesting
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: thing too.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: It was well, i'll tell you what we learned. What
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: we learn that if you don't have a corrupt police
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: of chief or chief of police, that you could have
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: solved this murder a rhyme within a matter of months,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: well six weeks. Well, well, it took a while to
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: gather all the evidence first and then six weeks to
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: review the evidence.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. But I but what.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: If that chief police like threw away that interview that
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: was key? Yeah, I mean, what if he destroyed that
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: though I don't want this on that threw it out
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: that that is a huge different outcome.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: And I never thought of that. I mean, I guess,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: I guess we the only good outcome is that he
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: didn't destroy evidence.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: That's where he draws along.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, I I have morals, I'm not gonna
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna fun ethical to destroy evidence. All right, Well,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: thank you for listening to the Gilgo Serial Murder. You
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: can watch there's a lot of documentaries on it, so
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: if you want more information, you can watch all of those.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: It's very calm, alluded, very complex.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: Very a lot of interviews at of a lot.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Of interviews with family members talking about the girls, a
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: more insight into their lives and who they were. And
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: you know, so if you have any information or you
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: know other things, or you have questions, I love that
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: you guys always DM about the podcast and you like
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: to add and ask questions. It's great. We really really
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. And if you have any other cases that
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: you would like us to talk about. I'm always happy
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: to take your suggestions. So thank you guys for listening.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: We appreciate it. Thank you