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Pastor John Stange on His Upcoming Book, Dwell on These Things · The Daily Writer

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Writer.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer: creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Here in the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with notable writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning and prepare for the week ahead.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: For more, you can visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is going to be just a little bit different.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Last month, my good friend John Stangy asked me to interview him for a special episode on his podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a book coming out this spring called Dwell on These Things, which will be published through Penguin Random House.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And John's ramping up the marketing for the book.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I had a blast preparing and asking John some questions about the book and how it can help people, especially right now in a time where many people are under a lot of stress financially and emotionally.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, since this is a writing podcast, I also wanted to share the interview here, with John's permission, of course.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, before I get into some specifics about topics that we cover in this conversation, let me share a little bit about John.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: John is the lead pastor of Core Creek Community Church in Langhorn, Pennsylvania.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: He hosts three podcasts: the Chapter a Day Audio Bible, Daily Devotions with Pastor John, and Dwell on These Things, which of course is named after the book that's coming out.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: John has written over 20 books, all of which are focused on spiritual growth, leadership, marriage, and practical aspects of following Jesus.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: John also recently started the Healthy Discipleship Community, which has been a great success.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as I mentioned, John's book is called Dwell on These Things, which is what we focused on in this interview.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: The book is a 31-day challenge to help you replace unhealthy messages you preach to yourself with gospel-centered truth.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody deals with negative self-talk, and John's book is a big help in replacing those negative voices with voices that are so much more positive.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically, of course, the voice of God through Scripture.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: From a writing perspective, there's a lot to learn here about the way that John structured the new book and how we should be thinking about our readers when we're doing the same thing for our own books.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I realize that not everybody who listens to this podcast is a person of faith.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if you fall into that category, you might be wondering why you'd want to stick around for this episode.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a simple reason, and that is because truth is truth.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you're not a person of faith and you may not consider yourself a Christian, I think you're going to be really inspired by this episode and that you're really going to also enjoy John's book, even if personally you're coming from a different faith perspective, or perhaps no faith perspective at all.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Either way, I think you're going to enjoy this episode and you're going to love John's book.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, the cool thing is that John is just a super guy, and it's very, very hard not to like John Stoggy.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So with that said, let's get on to my conversation with John about his upcoming book, Dwell on These Things.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: John, thank you so much for making time to be on the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Even though this is going to air on both of our shows, uh, it's good to have you here and talk about this amazing new book that you've got coming out.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for making time to do this.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Kent.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really grateful for uh you and for your willingness to to host this.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the the opportunity.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally my pleasure.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's jump in first of all with a question that probably seems really, really simple, but I think this question can help unravel a little bit uh really what this book is all about and what you would what you are intending to accomplish with it.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is why did you write this book dwell on these things?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: A while ago, I was just thinking through some things that are important to me in my walk with Christ and what it looks like for me in in just my daily relationship with him, what that looks like.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I've realized over the years is that the Lord doesn't just want me to be proclaiming and preaching the gospel to other people, but I need to be preaching it to myself on a regular basis.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it dawned on me one morning that that would be a uh just a good topic for a book.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to write a book on what it looks like to actually remind yourself of the gospel on a daily basis and proclaim and teach and and and talk through the gospel.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And since I'm trying to do that in my own life, I I thought, you know, this this would be a useful book concept because maybe it would help somebody else do that and encourage them in their walk with Christ as well.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you find that that is the case a lot of times with authors?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we both know a lot of writers, authors, and content creators that most of the best books come out of something in our own lives.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something that you feel strongly about and something that's had a huge impact on you.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so you end up wanting to share that with other people, hoping that that'll be a blessing to them as well.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I felt like this book was something I felt very energized to write and uh very excited to write.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I was given the privilege to do this and and uh to work with the publisher that I'm working with, I was really, really grateful for the opportunity.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm extremely excited.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm almost impatiently excited for this book to actually end up in people's hands.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my wife is as well.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: She uh we it's funny, we had uh when I was when I would write a chapter, one of my my practices was I would sit down in our family room, typically with my wife and my oldest daughter Hannah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I we would sit down, the three of us would sit together, and I would then read the chapter to them out loud and get their reaction and their initial response.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they were my initial test audience.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always, even even when you're doing this in front of family, it's always an awkward feeling because you don't know what people are going to say or how they're gonna respond to your art.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're you're bearing your soul for them and you're thinking, all right, are they gonna like it?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna hate it?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: These are two people that are gonna be brutally honest with me if it stinks.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the feedback that they gave me would keep egging me on to write the next chapter as they they enjoyed it and felt like it was helpful for them and encouraging to them, and and I would see their faces in my mind as I was writing chapter by chapter by chapter.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's definitely something I'm excited to be able to share with others.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm just super eager for it to finally be available because it's been in process here for quite some time.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Who would you say is the ideal reader for this book?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that that's a question that's a little bit hard to unravel because lots of different types of people read every single book that's ever published, probably.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if you could if you could really identify one specific kind of person, what are those, what are the characteristics of that person who you had in mind as you were writing this?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like to read things that are helpful, things that prod me to do something.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're the type of person that that wants to grow in your walk with Christ, but you don't want to just read about growing, you actually want to read something that can prod you in that direction and actually give you some concrete counsel or or point you to what scripture's saying or give you a personal anecdote that can help uh illustrate what it looks like to live something out.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're looking for something that's that's intensely practical, that's not just a book about the concept of of um of you know allowing your mind to dwell on what the message of the gospel is actually saying, but a book that shows you how to dwell on the truth of the gospel.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's the ideal reader.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the type of person, you know, somebody that likes to uh to grow in their walk with the Lord, but also somebody who is looking for a practical piece of encouragement, a book that could be used as a tool.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's the the ideal reader.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I love that.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, as you know, I uh have been a college professor for a long time, and I know you teach college as well at times, and we both spend a lot of time as educators and and pastors in the academic world, in the books, studying the languages and word studies and all that stuff.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's nice to have a book that is very practical.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's something you can read and put into practice immediately.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I really appreciate about this book, and I think readers are going to take that away from it as well because you read it and it's like, oh, it's like a a vitamin shot to the arm of spiritual growth and inspiration and encouragement.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I I love your approach with this, it's really great.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that that I love about this book as well is this concept of self-talk and the way that we and I think you use these words actually, the way that we preach the gospel or we preach the false gospel to our own hearts.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, I'm not butchering your words too much there.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: What are some ways that we do that in our everyday lives?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: We we essentially are our we have this self-talk going on, but it's it's a false gospel.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a harmful gospel that is not leading us closer to Christ.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: What are some ways that we do that in everyday life?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it it's interesting.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll I'll mention something that kind of is like the underpinning of that.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um when you when you think of so all right, you you mentioned there this idea of pastoring, right?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're a pastor, you you have the opportunity to preach to people and and you do that with regularity.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: But most people, even if they attend everything our church is putting together, and even if they listen to all my podcasts, they're only gonna have the opportunity to listen to me preach for several hours a week, right?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be several hours.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: But they are preaching to themselves constantly.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, when you look at the things that we're preaching to our hearts so often, we're actually preaching things to our hearts that don't line up with the truth of the gospel.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: We find ourselves spending a very short period of time listen listening to somebody else preach the gospel to us, but when it's our turn to then repeat that message to ourselves or actually proclaim what's true to our own hearts, we're not doing it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I have more opportunity to preach to myself than I have to anyone else.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you have more opportunity to preach to yourself than you're gonna have to anyone else, right?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and so uh what are we doing in those moments?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so often we're preaching a false gospel to our hearts.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the true gospel teaches us about the life, death, and resurrection of Christ and what that means in our daily life, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: How that looks in our daily life.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: A false gospel doesn't teach you about the life of Christ.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: It tries to teach you to carve out a life in your own strength and in your own merit.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, a false gospel doesn't teach you about the death of Christ.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: It it basically teaches that you need to be the one that kind of makes the sacrifices that that puts yourself over the edge.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very self-focused, self-effort type of mindset, you know, self-motivated.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, uh, you know, the true gospel teaches us about the resurrection of Christ and the fact that he offers new life to all who trust in him.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: A false gospel teaches that I need to somehow find that life for myself, or that I'm gonna find that life and satisfaction through worldly things.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so often the things that we're preaching to our hearts actually line up with a false gospel, where we're basically saying you've got to make your own way, you've got to right all your own wrongs, you've got to uh somehow make some sort of sacrifice to bring yourself into the favor of God and forgetting about the fact that Christ has already paid the price for you and that the favor that he shows you is not something that you could have earned or deserved.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: His love for us is not something that we can merit, but yet we treat a relationship with him as if it comes down to us deserving it or meriting it.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so often the things that we preach to our own heart, it basically comes down to us relying on our own strength, which is limited, instead of relying on Christ.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to put together a book that actually showed us what does it look like to walk on a daily basis relying on Christ to be your sufficiency instead of trying to be your own sufficiency.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of the kind of the theme of it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really love that.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it seems like we we have difficulty sometimes speaking positively to ourselves.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like many people love to beat themselves up for their their sins, their past mistakes, their failings.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever they feel like is is an obstacle in their life, we love to beat ourselves up in Western culture for some reason.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe in eastern culture too, I don't know, but in Western culture for sure.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is it about our humanity or our fallness or our psychology that that makes us want to do that?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we just love this negative self-talk so much?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting when when you look at some of the things that uh scripture tells us about Satan, one of the things that it tells us is that he's the uh accuser of the brethren, that he that he accuses us, that he just tries to uh you know find fault and castigate and hurt and and cause people to fail to see themselves from God's perspective.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look at what scripture tells us in places like Ephesians 1.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of my favorite chapters in Scripture.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Although it's funny, every time I say that something's a favorite chapter in Scripture, then I I think of another chapter.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, that's a favorite too.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole Bible is my favorite, but but Ephesians 1 is one of those portions of scripture that reminds us about how we're actually seen in God's eyes.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it counteracts this blame that I think Satan wants us to adopt as our mindset.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think we really struggle with that.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Satan gets in our minds, his his priorities get in our thinking, and as a result, we start to think of ourselves from his perspective instead of from the perspective that scripture outlines for us.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: If we're in Christ, we are seen as holy and blameless from the eyes of the Father, because as the Father looks at the Son, so too does he look at us.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and that's something I think we need to internalize, but it's something that we really struggle with.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes it's just so difficult for us to think that the Lord would love us in such an unconditional way because so many of the relationships we have in our day-to-day life are conditional.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people in my life, even as a pastor, this drives me nuts.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna admit this, Kent.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: There are there are so many people in my day-to-day life, even as a even as a pastor, that I realize that they don't truly love me in an unconditional way.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: They just basically put up with me as long as I do for them what they're hoping I'll do for them or give them what they're hoping that I'll give them.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the second I don't, or the second I go off script, I learn so quickly how conditional that relationship was.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to admit, as somebody who invests his life in other people, that is one of the most discouraging things that I ever experienced.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I know for me, I have to come right right back to the truth of the gospel in moments like that where I'm reminded of the fact that my relationship with the Lord is not a relationship that's filled with all these conditions.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: He offered himself to me when I was living like his enemy.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: My relationship with him is based on what he has done to initiate it, not what I did to initiate it.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I wasn't looking for him, he came looking for me.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a very different perspective than what many of the relationships in this world that we experience are like.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So many of them are conditional, and so many of them are based on us, you know, actually fulfilling what the other person wants us to fulfill.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And when we look at our relationship with the Lord as scripture outlines it, it tells us he came looking for us because we were lost and we were confused and our minds were in darkness.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I'm gonna offer myself to you, and all you need to do is trust me.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then he walks with us daily.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when I slip, it's not me that has to pick myself up, he picks me up.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't have to rely on my own strength, I don't have to rely on my own wisdom.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can rely on him and the fact that his love for me is unconditional.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's something that's hard for me to adjust my thinking to because I don't have too many relationships in my day-to-day life that operate purely with an unconditional kind of love.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's fascinating because this message is applicable and meaningful to people who feel very discouraged, maybe they're they're going through a very difficult time right now, but it's also applicable to people who are doing great.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: People who have a very successful business or they have a successful life in whatever terms they would define that.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you and I have a lot of mutual friends who are kind of in the business world, they're entrepreneurs and so forth.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Can you take a second and speak to people in that crowd in terms of people in the entrepreneur and business world many times are used to pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps, so to speak.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: They're used to charging ahead full steam, achieving things, you know, their whole life is all about success.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: How does the gospel speak to someone who's wired that way?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of you don't have to earn your way into heaven.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing you can do to make God love you.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can achieve all you want, but that doesn't actually change God's love for you.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: You are accepted, you're loved, you are beautiful and valued in God's eyes just the way you are.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's um interesting because you know, I think you're an ambitious person.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm an ambitious person.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I tend to really enjoy spending time with people that I think are ambitious people and goal-oriented people.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it just it I enjoy it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just I like that personality style.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I just um I learn so much from from so many people.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say one of the faults that those of us that are ambitious have is we really do become overly self-reliant.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it to the point where it can produce private anxieties that maybe we don't even tell people about, that we just kind of suffer in silence with.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so to you know, to my fellow ambitious people, one of the things that I would I would say would be continue to be ambitious, but aim for the highest goal.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say the highest goal when I look at the overview of scripture is to give God glory.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if my highest ambition is to glorify myself, if my highest ambition is to achieve something of worldly stature, none of that is going to have any eternal consequence.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna last, and it's also going to be the type of thing that's like a house of cards that can crumble so easily.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's got a very shaky foundation.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if my highest ambition is to give God glory, and if what I'm doing, I'm trying to do with an eternal perspective, it's going to last longer.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to have more of an impact.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually think it's more likely to enjoy his blessing as well.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because I, you know, I believe that the Lord seeks to bless the things that are seeking to give him glory.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh sometimes they have impact in ways that we don't even realize when we're actually committing ourselves to accomplishing them.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, as a fellow ambitious person, talking to a fellow ambitious person who's friends with lots of ambitious people, I would just encourage us to really wrestle with the highest ambition.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: What would it look like to add if that piece is missing?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you've never really asked yourself, what would it look like to give God glory in my ambitions?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that would be a question worth asking and and and maybe just seeking to add that piece if it's not there yet.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So in writing this book, you you obviously have in mind the person who is a person of faith, they follow Jesus, uh, they believe the Bible is God's word, and so forth.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: For someone who is not in that camp, maybe someone who who doesn't share your faith in Christ, who doesn't believe the Bible, they don't attend church, and so forth, maybe they would even describe themselves as an atheist or some other label.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: What kinds of value would they find in this book?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because there are people listening to this, both on yours and my podcast, probably who who don't put themselves in the Christian or faith-based category, but there's a lot of really, really good stuff in your book.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: So what are some of those things that they could cull or take away from your book, even if they don't necessarily share your your faith perspective?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: It so the book is obviously, and people could even hear from you know just the way I'm speaking today, but the the book is obviously um a book that doesn't hide the fact that I think Christ is the solution, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's something I'm you know, I'm just gonna be straight up and say Christ is the solution.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the here's the funny thing that I've discovered in my day-to-day life.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, growing up, most of my good friends, I I would say were not people that necessarily shared my faith.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I had plenty of friends that also shared my faith, but many of my friends did not share my faith.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I I would like to think that there'd still be something of value that uh they they found in our relationship, even though we didn't come from the same faith perspective.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to tell you now, even though, you know, uh I I've been a full-time pastor for 23 years, many of the people that I consider really good friends, whether it be people here in our community, in our neighborhood, uh people that I've met just through other common interests, they don't really come from my same faith perspective.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so if they read this book, they're obviously going to hear a lot about um, you know, issues related to faith.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's also something that can help them really wrestle with concepts that that maybe they've been wrestling with in regard to their own self talk.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when I when I through some of the the chapters in the book, and it's you know, 31 sections, because it's actually a book that's I want somebody to read over the course of a month.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I want them to start with read through that chapter and focus on it for the day.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: But like when you look at day one in the book, day one talks about the fact that you are loved more deeply than you realize.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's a foundational concept.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there's something in that concept that somebody certainly from a faith perspective is going to take something from.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: But when that concept gets developed, I think it's edifying for anybody to start thinking about this concept.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it possible that to think that I am loved more deeply than I even realize?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or um how about day four?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you get to day four, uh, in that in that chapter, I talk about the fact that any trial can be an occasion for joy.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: So any trial can be an occasion for joy.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you share my same faith perspective or not, um, I think that it that it's a very helpful thing to be able to look through the occurrences of your life and the occasions that are coming up that might test you and say, okay, something good can come from this.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I need to remind myself of this in the midst of the trial, that any trial can be an occasion for joy.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously I share some personal experiences in that chapter that uh I hope people will find helpful and and applicable.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, whether whether we come from the same faith perspective or not, I I think many of these things would still be edifying and helpful to read.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it'll probably also, you know, if you've ever wondered why people like me think like we think, or um uh, you know, if you're ever curious uh just for kind of an honest assessment of um, you know, like just a Christian faith perspective from somebody that that, you know, I I don't I think I'm a nice guy, Ken.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can tell me if you think I don't know.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I try to be nice, right?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I try to be nice to people.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't whether you share my faith or not, um, I am willing and eager to be your friend.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and I I know that the people in my day-to-day life can testify to that.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that heart comes out in my writing style here.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a book that preaches at you.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a book that's filled with my perspective on on faith and scripture and and Jesus Christ, but it's not it's not really a preachy book.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's a book that uh is kind of trying to encourage you to think deeply and differently about yourself and how you've been designed and uh and and the ultimate goal of your life.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope people would take that from the book, whether or not they come from the same exact faith perspective.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I certainly think it's possible.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: They'd have to be pretty generous, I think, in some respects, because I it's very clear that that uh you know I'm I'm pretty focused on Christ and and the impact he's made on my life.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if they'd be willing to to read through that, I think that they'd find just a lot of encouragement here.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly hope that they would.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I couldn't agree more.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, good medicine is good medicine no matter where it comes from.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, truth is truth.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there's even if you strip away all the Bible stuff out of your book, there's still so much good stuff in there that's gonna help anyone no matter what their perspective is.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned that the book is divided into 31 chapters.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, someone should be reading the book each day for a month.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for people who are really um, you know, highly scheduled, if they start reading on day one on the first of the month, and they're reading in a month that has 30 days, they're gonna have to set aside some of that, you know, highly scheduled kind of a thing.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I just gotta throw that in there.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not every month has 31 days, but you've got it all covered, even for the long months, you've got that covered.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just don't start reading the book in the month of February.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, by no means.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's gonna throw you off.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it'll totally, it totally won't work.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So aside from reading the book, are there some other habits or practices or rituals that someone could be doing alongside reading the chapters each day that would really help reinforce the message of the book?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I think one of the big things is well, there's two things.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So one is actually analyzing what you say to yourself in moments when you're tested.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Actually think through the words that you're saying to yourself.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are you speaking things to your heart that are untrue, but you're acting like they're true?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, so notice the things you say to yourself.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be the first practice, because I think if you notice things, then it's it's hard for them to slide under the radar.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing I'd recommend is actually be very intentional about who you surround yourself with.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because there are people that throughout the course of my life, I from time to time I've I've surrounded myself with some people that over time I realized they are hurtful, not helpful.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and I've I've had to pause certain relationships over the course of my life.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that I'm not willing to be friends with somebody, uh, but when you discover you've got somebody in your life who really just has a knack for bringing you down and maybe even is doing that intentionally, you want to start examining what messages you're allowing your heart to believe based on the people that you invite into your life.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: For example, I realized several years ago that there was somebody that I allowed to uh, you know, really take a kind of a big part in my life as far as like my daily schedule or my weekly schedule that uh had a knack for making me feel terrible about myself.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it was from a metric that doesn't line up with what scripture says, but it was from a worldly metric.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really through comparison and through things of that nature.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I thought to myself, why do I give this guy so much time?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why do I why do I give him so much time?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I never uh leave a conversation with him where I don't feel slightly worse about myself than I felt at the start of it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought, why do I allow him into my head?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I give him so much time?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when that became clear to me, it took a while for me to realize that that was actually the pattern and that what he was saying, it's not that he was telling me truthful things that that I just didn't want to hear.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was that he was saying things that weren't true and I was treating them like they were true.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when that became clear to me, I thought, you know what?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I need to limit the amount of time I spend with this person because the more time I'm spending with them, the more those things get in my head, and it's not really helpful.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to change that up a little bit, and I was glad that I did.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be, those would be the two things.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Analyze what you're saying to yourself.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it true?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it helpful?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is it wise?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh kind of call it out a little bit, you know, maybe even kind of make note of some of the things that you're saying to yourself because if they're not true, if they're not in line with the truth, you don't want to keep preaching those things to your heart.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then just be careful who you let influence you.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Be careful who you allow to speak into your life.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure that you're welcoming those to speak into your life who speak truth.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you discover that somebody is is ultimately proclaiming something that's unhelpful, unwise, and untrue, it's not that you can't necessarily be friends or family with that person, but you want to be very intentional about how you allow them to speak into your mind and into your heart.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Great advice.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Really great advice.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's that's sometimes easier said than done.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy to do on social media.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can unfollow people, you can block people if needed.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of an extreme thing, but sometimes it is necessary.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've done it plenty.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I have too, I confess.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to somebody that you see in your everyday life, maybe it's uh even a relative or a neighbor or somebody at your church or workplace.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any suggestions for people who need to pull away from those relationships?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: But also doing it with some semblance of grace and not causing an undue amount of conflict or or problems.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a way to do that where it's not like ripping off a band-aid and causing all kinds of pain and hurt feelings?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think in most cases like that, probably the best approach to take would be to ask yourself, okay, how how do I typically respond to this person?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, if typically you feel provoked by them, you don't want to give them more ammo.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe it could be a moment where you just stay silent or just give kind of a non-committal answer, like, okay, that's interesting.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for sharing that.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: But the bigger part of what I think we need to do is uh just make sure that in however we're responding, we are utilizing the fruit of the spirit.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when you you look at Galatians 5 and Galatians 5, it talks about this idea that the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're interacting with somebody uh who tends to provoke you and and and maybe takes you to a spot that you don't really enjoy going, ask yourself, all right, how can I, which fruit of the spirit could I respond to that person with?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it love?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it uh is it kindness, is it gentleness?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do I need to exercise some additional self-control here and how I how I respond to this person?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then not giving them fodder to to really come back at you with constantly.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: If it's somebody that that really you know just takes what you say and uh tries to use it against you constantly, well, then don't give them too much that you have said.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just kind of nod and and uh be polite, but you know, don't give them too much ammo.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: There is a really good principle here of that sometimes when our relationship with someone is kind of strained or there's conflict there or an an unhealthy relationship, we tend to always blame the other person, but maybe the problem is us.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe by by fixing ourselves and having better self-talk and following many of the things that you laid out in this book, maybe that actually has a healthy impact on those relationships without doing anything confrontational.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just we become different and therefore it changes that relationship.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a crazy principle when you think about it, but it's so true.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you you I mean, none of us can control another person.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: The only person we have even some semblance of control over is our ourselves.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think that if we make a habit of teaching these truths and preaching these truths to our hearts, you know, the fact that we're loved more deeply than we realize, that we can walk by faith rather than sight to experience greater joy, the fact that any trial can be an occasion for joy.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if we make a habit of preaching these things to our heart, uh one of the other benefits is that the words that are harmful that come our direction from other people really start to bounce off because our tank is so full of truth that we can sniff out a lie a lot quicker, and it doesn't have as much impact on us.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I remember, I think it was George Whitfield.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: You ever hear the name George Whitfield, famous famous evangelist from centuries ago, right?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I I think I have this story right, but I think somebody had written him a letter, and uh they had just insulted him about all sorts of things, and I don't even know what the letter said.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he responded in such a way that showed that he his heart was so saturated with the truth of the gospel that not only was he proclaiming it to other people, but he had been saying it to himself over and over that he was able to respond with grace and he replied with a letter of his own to that person, and he said, Thank you for your correspondence.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: I read every word, and I just want you to know that I know worse, so much worse things about myself than you'll ever write down.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I just wanted to thank you for your letter.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, George.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm paraphrasing that.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: He said it more eloquently, but I I always got a big kick out of that because I thought, what a perfect way to respond.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know way worse things about myself than you could ever put on paper.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for your letter.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you wrote this book before the events of 2020.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but but it's interesting how relevant, I would say even more relevant your book is now, because changing ourselves is such a great way to change the people around us and to have a positive impact in a time and in an age where there's so much hatred, there's so much unhappiness, discouragement, depression, lots of crazy things happening in the culture right now.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're recording this in December 2020.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows what next year holds?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, how are some ways that that your book has become even more relevant than what you imagined whenever you conceived of this whole project?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So as a pastor, one of the things I do is a lot of counseling.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have had more counseling this year than any year of my ministry.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been pastoring for 23 full years at this point.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I've had so much counseling related to all sorts of relationship issues, mental issues, uh addiction issues, uh, marriage issues, just all sorts of things.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of these issues that are coming up come back to the message that we're preaching to our hearts.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: It comes back to the things that we're allowing to cause us anxiety and stress.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really provoked by our circumstances and so much throughout the course of 2020, we've all had our circumstances and our routines interrupted.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so, uh, in a very real way, being reminded and refreshed by the truth of the gospel is it's relevant at any season of life, but during a year like this when we've all been so collectively tested, it's especially helpful.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: I also saw something uh that was, I think the study was just released a couple weeks ago from the Gallup organization.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: They did a study on mental health, and apparently they do this every year.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I I screenshotted this to my phone because I thought it was fascinating.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they studied all major groups of people here in the United States and even some of the subsets of you know, people that that have this background, people that have this background, people occupied in in this activity or this activity.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: They they examined their mental health and how they would assess their own mental health for this survey.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I I did think it was interesting because there was only one group of every group that they that they spoke to or interviewed or questioned, there was only one group that said that their mental health actually felt a little bit better even in the midst of this.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it was those who actively were participating in the ministry of a local church where ultimately they're hearing these things proclaimed and preached to their hearts regularly.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought to myself, wow, you know, when you think about the just the the context of of this book or the concept of this book about taking that message and making sure that you're preaching it to your heart regularly, I just thought it was interesting in looking at the Gallup organization study that those that had it had at least a weekly dose of that were uh mentally so much happier or uh feeling stronger or more able to adapt to the changes than those that didn't necessarily feel like they had uh that sort of um input in their in their daily life or their weekly life.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's great.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as we begin to wind this down, I do have a couple more questions for you that I want to throw out there.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this is a question specifically for people who don't maybe read a lot of books.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure there's at least one or two people listening to this interview, to this conversation who uh feel very, very busy, they feel overwhelmed with life, and they're probably thinking, okay, I I want to read John's book, but I'm struggling with the concept of reading a chapter a day for one whole month.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Any recommendations for those people who have trouble fitting reading into their lives?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know the chapters are fairly short, but what are some ways people could fit this in and actually do this over a month's time?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if they're going to use the printed text, like you mentioned, the chapters are intentionally digestible to be um, you know, long enough to be helpful and short enough that you'll actually read it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one part, even in the design of how the book's put together.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I I actually have uh two friends that they do something for each other.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a husband and wife.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one of the things that that they do for each other is they actually read things to each other out loud, and they've decided to make that kind of uh part of their pattern.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes when they're driving, you know, whoever is the passenger will do some reading and it turns into a conversational thing.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think sometimes reading ends up being something that feels a little bit more of a task because we're doing it by ourselves or we feel like we're forcing ourselves to do it.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes adding the social component of maybe reading it together with somebody or taking turns reading it out loud or discussing it with somebody could actually help a lot of people that might be interested in doing this, might actually be beneficial because it has the reinforcement of just kind of some personal accountability as well.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: But the other, the other thing, if you really if none of those options sound appealing, uh the good news, I don't even think I I mentioned this to you yet, Kent.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe this will be brand new news, but there's going to be an audiobook version of it as well.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if somebody really hates sitting down and reading printed word, uh they will be able to actually listen to the audiobook and consume the content that way.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully that'll be helpful to somebody.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I assume you're reading the audiobook, correct?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: I am, yes.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna be the one reading that.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I requested of the publisher that that be the case, and I think they wanted that to be the case anyway.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, I think it'd be really funny if it wasn't read by me because so many of the stories that I share in the book are very intensely personal, and it would just be so odd to hear somebody else's voice reading those stories or making those admissions to people.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I did request of them.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Can can I be the one reading the for the audio book?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they were gracious and said yes.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one more question here, uh actually two more questions.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: For those who are listening who have someone or someone in their life who they're trying to share Jesus with, someone who they would like to invite to their church, or they're they're just trying to bring a little bit closer to Christ.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: How could your book be a tool for Christians who want to share Jesus with non-Christians around them?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things that I think will be most helpful to people is if you spend some time making sure that your heart is refreshed with the truth of the gospel, you're putting yourself in a spot where your tank is full and you're more equipped, in my opinion, to then demonstrate the truth of the gospel to others.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're feeding your heart, if you're feeding your mind the truth and that's fresh in your mind, and that's fresh in your heart, and you're preaching these things to your own heart, I think you're more likely to, with accuracy, proclaim that to other people.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll give you an example, even in a household, how I think this works out.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: My wife and I, we have four children.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that it can be a struggle when you have children that you're raising is just kind of keeping your cool and representing Christ as best as you can, even in your household.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was tested earlier today.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we just got snow today.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh after I just dug all the snow and and took care of all that stuff and had everything put away, my daughter came downstairs and she's in a snowsuit.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, she's getting kind of old for this stuff anyway, but she's in a snowsuit and she's like, hey dad, I was thinking about going sledding.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, can you get the sleds and stuff for us?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are they out?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now they are in an attic above my car in the garage.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was just put away, everything had been out, and now everything is put away.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Are you kidding me?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was eating lunch and trying to get warm again after doing all that.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I snapped at her a little bit.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I basically told her, I was like, Listen, I'm eating my lunch, walk away.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then as soon as I did it, and my wife didn't say a word, and she's sitting next to me.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And after I cooled down for really just a minute, I lifted my head up toward her and I said, Okay, so obviously I'm going to get the sleds out of that attic in the garage.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: I will take the car back out.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do all the stuff I need to do to get access to them.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just need a second to cool down.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and I did that.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: I talked to my daughter then afterward, I was like, all right, so here's the deal.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it would have been better if you timed your request better, but that's no excuse for how I responded to you.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was able to repent to her and apologize for snapping at her.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the reasons it feels safe for me to repent is that my whole self-identity is not being based on whether or not I get everything right in life.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: I can goof up and still be confident of the fact that the Lord loves me even on the days when I goof up and snap at my child because I'm tired and I'm cold and I'm trying to warm up and she asks me something that I want to hear in the moment or whatever it may be.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then I can repent to her and say, uh, I'm sorry that I did that.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: I should not have responded to you that way.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm able to do that because, again, my self-worth is not based on whether or not I get everything right.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's based on who Christ is and what he's done for me.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can keep preaching that message to my heart, I think I'll more quickly repent to my children when I lose my cool.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I'll I'll treat my wife differently as well.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think that that's a very practical way that that helps in a household.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that that helps, you know, when we're trying to share our faith, we're doing so from a mindset and a heart attitude that hopefully, Lord willing, reflects the heart of Christ.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we want to do.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a great lesson for any parent.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think listening to this is man, the best thing we can do for our kids is if if they can see us growing in Christ, if they can see us making mistakes, but then making an attempt to make them right.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think apologizing to our kids is one of the most powerful things that we can do as parents.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how many of us grew up and and I'm not I'm not saying this about my own dad, but a lot of people grew up with parents who would do those kinds of things.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Would they wouldn't have the humility to apologize?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: It would never occur to them.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a powerful lesson.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad you shared that.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's fresh.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still thinking about it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really fresh.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's hours old.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, John, this has been a blast.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you share where people can find out more about you, more about your podcast, the book, all the cool stuff that you have going on?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have a lot of pieces to all the things that you're doing.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we're here to talk about the book, but that's part of a much larger hole that you've got uh that you've got for people.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if people want to find out more about what I'm doing, some of my other books, my podcasts, anything like that, I I put it all on my website.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And my website is desirejesus.com.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if they go over to desire Jesus.com, they'll see all of this.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: I even have a free book that's available there.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if they go to desirejesus.com slash dwell on these things, you can see the pre-order page.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, if you pre-order the book, so the book's not in stores yet, it's going to be in stores soon and it will be shipped out to people soon.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: But if you pre-order it and if you send me an email with a screenshot of your pre-order, I will email back two digital copies of my other books just as a thank you for making me look good to my publisher.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the publisher is really excited about the pre-sales.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if you pre-order the book, if you order it before it's available in stores, you'll get it when it comes out.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be mailed to you.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I will send you two other books for free as a thank you.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'll send you digital copies of a couple of my other books.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you just screenshot your receipt from pre-ordering it, and again, you can do that all at desirejesus.com slash dwell on these things.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: And my email address is john at desirejesus.com.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's where you could send your screenshot of your receipt.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, John, so much.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I do want to say when your book comes out on the pub date, I want to be the first person to go into my local Barnes Noble and snap a photo of me holding the print copy of the book.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, definitely there.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it's going to be there on that day.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: That would be a blast.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: It better be, or else I'm going to have to call management.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, what's the deal?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on here?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll just have to request that they get it sent in.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: I will make sure I know the manager there, so I will make sure it happens.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right, nice.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, John, thanks so much.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's it's been a pleasure as well for me.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I really appreciate uh you hosting this interview.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I really like the questions that you asked.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: There were some great questions there, and I I hope it was helpful for someone that's listening.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I learned a lot, so uh, and I I think that listeners will as well.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks again.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Kent.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with John.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: My main takeaway from our interview is that negative self-talk is real and it can destroy you.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: It really can.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I just had a conversation with my son about this the other day.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Something had happened, and he called himself stupid, like all of us do sometimes.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: He probably heard it from me.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: And because I had recently done this interview with John, I was able to have a really great conversation with him about how this kind of self-talk can be really harmful.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Chances are that you struggle with this too as well.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: We all do.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: But just knowing that we tend to do this and knowing that we need to replace that negative self-talk with positive self-talk, specifically scripture, can be really, really helpful.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the lesson here is to pay attention to how you talk to yourself.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to the words you're speaking to yourself.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Are they helping you or are they harming you?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I definitely want to encourage you to pre-order your copy of John's amazing new book, Dwell on These Things.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can find it at desirejesus.com slash dwell on these things.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: I also encourage you to connect with John on Facebook as well as checking out his podcasts, and you can find all of those links in the show notes.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, before I wrap up this episode, I want to take just a second to let you know that our daily writer community has officially launched.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: For the last several weeks, we've had a private beta group, and it's been a blast to see this community develop and grow.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're looking for a community of generous, like-minded writers who can help you develop better habits and reach your writing goals, then I think you'll really love the Daily Writer community.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been able to find the type of writing group that I wanted, so I created this one that includes weekly writing sprints, guest experts, community calls, writing mentors, weekly goals, and so much more.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: For more info, you can visit dailyriderlife.com slash community.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for this episode, and I'll see you tomorrow.