Latest / Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast / PODCAST: Episode 774 - Inside the Mind of Failure – Ken Andrews on the Band’s New Film

Transcript

PODCAST: Episode 774 - Inside the Mind of Failure – Ken Andrews on the Band’s New Film · Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast

• 0:00
  We put our personal lives in the music for sure, but this is a
• 0:04
  whole different level of examination and exposure that
• 0:08
  we've never had before any of us in in our lives.
• 0:12
  Really though, yeah, it's kind of scary.
• 0:14
  But I tried to come at it with as much honesty as I could
• 0:19
  muster. And that gives me some not not
• 0:23
  solitude, but some kind of at least confidence that we didn't
• 0:27
  shy away from the stuff that was difficult.
• 0:36
  What's up everybody, It's TV at ghostcoltmag.com.
• 0:40
  I am joined for another round of interviews.
• 0:43
  This is our third interview, second with you.
• 0:46
  But Ken, a failure. How are you doing?
• 0:47
  Good. Good.
• 0:48
  Real good. You know, just a absolute
• 0:52
  pleasure to talk to you. We are on the eve of the release
• 0:55
  of your documentary about the band.
• 0:57
  First and Foremost, you know, congratulations on this thing.
• 1:01
  I think it anything in this day and age to put together
• 1:03
  something so comprehensive and almost like a memoir.
• 1:07
  I I, I, I'm marvel at people who write books and it's the same
• 1:11
  thing with documentary films. I think it's a real labor of
• 1:13
  love is a lot of blood, sweat and tears, a lot different than
• 1:17
  me making music and, you know, similar creative outlet, but you
• 1:21
  know, different end result and a different journey in a lot of
• 1:24
  ways. So first and foremost, thank you
• 1:26
  for this and congratulations I. Appreciate that.
• 1:29
  I really do. Thank you.
• 1:30
  Yeah, of course. And, you know, I think it's
• 1:33
  relevant to say that it is warts and all.
• 1:36
  And I think that's the number one thing that I took away from
• 1:39
  this. I think there's no, it's no
• 1:41
  holds barred that everybody in the band is under a microscope.
• 1:44
  Good, bad, beautiful, horrible, wonderful, just like life.
• 1:48
  And did you have any trepidation about making this thing like a
• 1:52
  completely, you know, you know, soul bearing experience for
• 1:57
  everybody in the band? Was there any second thoughts?
• 1:59
  Yeah, definitely, definitely had some reservations, kind of still
• 2:04
  have them now in terms of just like it's, you know, people who
• 2:09
  are going to see it starting tomorrow and it's it's freaky,
• 2:13
  you know, because the music, I mean, we put we put our personal
• 2:17
  lives in the music for sure. But this is a whole different
• 2:22
  level of examination and exposure that we've never had
• 2:27
  before any of us in in our lives, really.
• 2:30
  So, yeah, it's kind of scary. But I, I tried to, I tried to
• 2:36
  come at it with as much honesty as I could muster.
• 2:40
  And that gives me some not not solitude, but some kind of at
• 2:46
  least confidence that we didn't shy away from the stuff that was
• 2:50
  difficult. Right on.
• 2:52
  But again, not easy to do, not natural to do.
• 2:55
  It's probably against your own instincts to open up and share
• 2:58
  things that probably very few people outside the band ever
• 3:02
  knew. Every little minute detail is
• 3:04
  uncovered every time you lose your mind.
• 3:07
  Is the name of the film, by the way, and it's going to be on
• 3:10
  Hulu and Disney Plus starting June 27th.
• 3:12
  We're recording this right before that, but yeah, it's
• 3:16
  really astounding. I felt very lucky to watch it a
• 3:18
  few times and really take it. And I have been a fan, as you
• 3:21
  know, we've talked before, we've we've had a few interviews.
• 3:24
  I have been a fan of the band from the beginning.
• 3:26
  I think I had a song on a CMJ compilation, so kind of early
• 3:32
  days I used to. Very early days.
• 3:34
  When I still had bands. And now I'm back doing music
• 3:37
  again for the first time in a long time.
• 3:38
  I don't know why, but I'm doing it.
• 3:40
  And I remember like my early formative band days in New York
• 3:43
  City. I live in California now.
• 3:45
  I, I would get those CMJ compilations and then
• 3:48
  immediately try to find everything I could.
• 3:50
  There was no Internet, there was no streaming.
• 3:52
  You had to buy a whole record. You didn't know what it sounded
• 3:55
  like unless you were lucky to have a place like a Tower
• 3:57
  Records that had the OR, or Virgin Megastore with the
• 4:00
  listening boots, right? You almost never got to hear a
• 4:04
  whole record before it came out unless you'd worked in radio or,
• 4:08
  or the media. So this is way before I did any
• 4:10
  of that. So, you know, just been a big
• 4:13
  fan for the whole journey and I learned things about the band as
• 4:16
  an exhaustive nerd of music. I learned things I never knew
• 4:19
  about the mark of the band. So I felt like it was a fan of
• 4:22
  the band will get a lot out of it.
• 4:24
  A newcomer to the band. And you talked during the course
• 4:26
  of the film about sort of a new era of discovery for the band,
• 4:30
  which I think is wonderful and amazing and necessary for things
• 4:34
  to live on in art. But yeah, just it must be mind
• 4:38
  blowing to. I'm glad your recall is so good.
• 4:41
  And some of this stuff was recorded like, but also like
• 4:44
  there's a lot of great recollections from everybody in
• 4:46
  the band also about kind of every, every little latter step
• 4:49
  of the way. Despite everything, it's it's
• 4:51
  very must be very gratifying to be able to document all these
• 4:55
  things. Yeah, I think it puts, I think
• 4:58
  there was, we wanted to kind of clarify, you know, because there
• 5:02
  were some, you know, a certain amount of writing about the
• 5:06
  band's troubles before the DOC and and now.
• 5:12
  Not that they were horribly off base or anything, but just to
• 5:15
  kind of put a more personal spin on it and, and a more personal
• 5:20
  kind of context what it was like to be in the band when we were
• 5:24
  going through all of that stuff. It felt good in a way to kind of
• 5:28
  get it off chess. So yeah, I think that's part of
• 5:31
  the reason why we why we actually did it.
• 5:34
  Right on. There are many guests in the
• 5:37
  documentary. Sometimes that's, you know, what
• 5:39
  people say about you is almost as important to was what the
• 5:43
  narrative you tell yourself. And it's actually pretty
• 5:47
  interesting. Something that's not in the
• 5:48
  film, of course, like the relationship between failure and
• 5:51
  getting open for Tool on five tours was a big boost to the
• 5:54
  band, especially around the third record.
• 5:57
  But actually in an interview that Maynard James Keenan did
• 6:00
  with Rick Biato also in the film earlier this year, he, he was
• 6:04
  asked by Rick, like, were there bands from the scene Tool was in
• 6:07
  Tool and Rage Against the Machine in that LA era, Like
• 6:10
  what are the bands that should have been bigger?
• 6:12
  And he said failure #1. So I was really, I know that
• 6:15
  he's always been a supporter and, and those guys are friends
• 6:18
  and fans as well. But, you know, it's got to be
• 6:22
  gratifying to get people like Hayley Williams of Paramore and
• 6:26
  Tommy Lee, you know, people who are not just themselves legends
• 6:31
  or or famous people, but other people in your circle who are
• 6:34
  fans and friends. You know, it's not just
• 6:36
  everybody gushing on you. They gave, you know, very candid
• 6:41
  answers about their love for the band and why the band is
• 6:44
  important to them. And I think that's very special.
• 6:46
  You don't often see that even in the best documentaries.
• 6:50
  Yeah, I, I, that's one of the reasons I decided to do the doc,
• 6:54
  because it was originally started by a couple other people
• 6:58
  who captured a few of the interviews between 2015 and
• 7:03
  2020. And when I saw those interviews,
• 7:07
  it really surprised me. It surprised me who they got.
• 7:11
  I I mean, I knew some somewhat that some of these people were,
• 7:15
  you know, into the band, but I had no idea that they had really
• 7:19
  spent that much time thinking about it or, or, you know, even
• 7:23
  wanted to go on camera to talk about the band.
• 7:26
  And when I saw that, I thought, you know, that's, that's kind of
• 7:30
  listen, that could be an interesting angle to the film.
• 7:33
  It's just like this kind of weird, eclectic mix of, of
• 7:37
  celebrities, I guess, you know, other musicians, other
• 7:41
  performers talking about a band. Because the first thing that hit
• 7:46
  me when I saw that first group of interviews was like, I wonder
• 7:50
  if Margaret Cho and Tommy Lee have been in the same movie
• 7:52
  before. Amazing.
• 7:55
  Yeah. So that was definitely a very.
• 7:59
  It was kind of emotional, honestly, watching some of those
• 8:02
  interviews for the first time. Right on and Tommy close on.
• 8:05
  Good call. And you've all seen much of
• 8:08
  Tommy lately, and we're good, but we're good, bro.
• 8:13
  Yeah. I want to hear him talk about
• 8:14
  music and not see any of the body parts.
• 8:15
  But, you know, so many jokes. So many jokes come to mind.
• 8:20
  But yeah, it's just such a really great look into the band.
• 8:23
  And I love the care that every stage is taken with.
• 8:27
  And I think it's, you know, obviously it's hard not to talk
• 8:30
  about. Albini just passed away.
• 8:32
  It sucks so bad that we're losing a lot of our heroes young
• 8:36
  and I know is, you know, maybe not contentious is not the right
• 8:39
  word, but, you know, not the results you wanted right from
• 8:42
  the first record. And then, you know, obviously I
• 8:44
  think that led the band to this path where everybody in the band
• 8:48
  is also gone into production and studio work and and sort of the
• 8:52
  meticulous nature you probably already always had as artists
• 8:56
  has carried over into production.
• 8:58
  And I think that's, you know, I think one of the things has had
• 9:01
  equal footing with the artistry and the music of the band is the
• 9:04
  production and the talent of of all of y'all.
• 9:07
  And not easy. I know.
• 9:10
  I know Steve's obviously his bona fides are untouchable, but
• 9:14
  as many people had beef with him also, and he himself had beef
• 9:17
  with his own work. Even, you know, he had a a
• 9:20
  strange relationship with the work itself.
• 9:22
  You know, you know, he's a very unique and special person as a
• 9:26
  producer. So, you know, what did you take
• 9:27
  away from that first experience that was positive?
• 9:31
  And did you maybe some of it carried over with you, even if
• 9:34
  you didn't love the way the first record came out?
• 9:36
  Well, I just in general, I learned a lot of recording
• 9:41
  techniques working with them because we were there for almost
• 9:44
  a month and just working with someone I'd never gotten to work
• 9:49
  with someone who had made so many records and had actual, you
• 9:53
  know, studio experience and was confident and, you know, felt
• 9:59
  like he was, knew what he was doing.
• 10:01
  So that part was great. And that informed me.
• 10:04
  But yeah, I think as we were getting deeper into the record,
• 10:07
  I think our vision for what could be happening in terms of
• 10:13
  techniques and and production ideas were getting somewhat
• 10:18
  muted by his by his techniques and his ideas about recording,
• 10:24
  which were, you know, looking back on it now, I was just
• 10:27
  watching some of the those sections of this of the 8mm
• 10:33
  video Handycam that we had. And it's kind of realizing, you
• 10:38
  know, that actually our first drummer, Robber and Steve were
• 10:43
  kind of more aligned philosophically about how to
• 10:46
  approach a recording, a rock band in the studio.
• 10:49
  I think Greg and I kind of felt like it was, you know, no, there
• 10:53
  were no rules, and you could use the studio as an instrument in
• 10:57
  and of itself. And overdubs weren't, you know,
• 11:02
  something to be looked down upon or we didn't, we didn't see
• 11:08
  making records as like this kind of pure capturing of the band
• 11:12
  live. We we thought, you know, if the
• 11:15
  studio was and a lot of our favorite records use the studio
• 11:19
  pretty extensively to do all sorts of sound effects and
• 11:23
  soundscapes. And, you know, it was just we,
• 11:27
  we, we, we were hoping for a bit more freer environment.
• 11:31
  But and maybe ultimately that experience kind of we we kind of
• 11:37
  learned about each other that, you know, like Robert was come
• 11:41
  kind of coming at it from a different place and maybe that
• 11:45
  led ultimately to him to want to leave the band.
• 11:49
  Right on Bad, Bad times of drummers until Kelly.
• 11:52
  Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, definitely, I mean, it was, it
• 11:57
  was kind of subtle though, because it was, we were getting
• 12:00
  some performances that we liked and it definitely sounded like
• 12:03
  us. I just think we we were hoping
• 12:06
  to explore things a little bit deeper and and that didn't
• 12:12
  really happen. And what was but what was so
• 12:15
  interesting to me is that Steve's reflecting on it now or
• 12:21
  last year, actually, probably two years ago when they
• 12:23
  interviewed him was really interesting because I didn't
• 12:27
  know what his take on it was going to be.
• 12:28
  But it, you know, he, he kind of he had no problem looking back
• 12:32
  on some of his decisions and going, yeah, maybe that wasn't
• 12:36
  the right thing to do at the at that point.
• 12:38
  So it was, it was, it was an interesting experience for sure.
• 12:42
  And that was probably the only time as a band you actually
• 12:45
  needed somebody to guide the process a little bit
• 12:47
  differently. Maybe if Albini had produced the
• 12:49
  second record, In my end, someone else had done the first,
• 12:51
  it would have been a different article.
• 12:53
  But again, maybe things wouldn't have played out the way they
• 12:55
  did. It's hard to know.
• 12:57
  Also, I think it's very fair to say the band has experienced
• 13:00
  every high and low the old guard music industry had.
• 13:03
  And now you're here still and put out two records in the
• 13:07
  current, you know, streaming era, for better or worse.
• 13:12
  You know, a lot of just not great experiences, good, bad or
• 13:17
  otherwise some great experiences, you know, with the
• 13:19
  record, you know, with the business.
• 13:21
  Unfortunately, it's the music business.
• 13:23
  It's not, it's not the music friendship, as I'm fond of
• 13:25
  saying. And so, yeah, you know, you
• 13:28
  learn a lot of tough lessons. I would you say that, you know,
• 13:32
  despite how universally loved fantastic Planet is, did was
• 13:36
  that just like the hardest couple of years of your life?
• 13:40
  Well, definitely after it was done was very hard because right
• 13:46
  as we were finishing it, the label that we were signed to at
• 13:49
  the time, Slash Records, told us that they were selling in the in
• 13:54
  in the process of selling the whole label to another party and
• 14:01
  including our catalog and the current record that we had just
• 14:05
  finished. And which doesn't necessarily
• 14:09
  mean a bad thing, except that the music business moves kind of
• 14:12
  slow sometimes. So we finished that record in
• 14:16
  early 95, I think, and it didn't come out until late 96.
• 14:22
  So that was a very tough time because we had really put
• 14:26
  everything into it. We kind of knew that if
• 14:29
  something didn't change in terms of where we were in the business
• 14:35
  environment, we probably weren't going to get a fourth record.
• 14:38
  So not that would not that that inspired us to make a more
• 14:42
  commercial record. It just we just wanted to make
• 14:45
  something really good so that that if we went out, we went out
• 14:50
  with our heads held high. Basically, you know, the
• 14:53
  problems with with drugs which were which had definitely crept
• 14:57
  in during the making of the record.
• 14:59
  Once we got that news that it it, we don't know when it's
• 15:03
  going to come out, if it's ever going to come out, that just
• 15:06
  that put us all in a bit of a tailspin mentally.
• 15:10
  I was actually ending my relationship with with heroin
• 15:14
  around that time. So I kind of escaped somewhat,
• 15:18
  but I got, I did get very depressed and didn't know what
• 15:21
  to do and people kept saying, well, just just, you know, just
• 15:24
  wait it out. This record's good.
• 15:26
  It's it'll find a home. And eventually it did.
• 15:29
  But by the time it did, Greg's the Addiction had really taken a
• 15:35
  a very dark turn. And so, yeah, that the, the
• 15:38
  year, year and a half we spent touring on it was was very
• 15:41
  bittersweet because we we all felt like it was the best
• 15:44
  musical work we had done. And yet we were just barely
• 15:48
  treading water as as people. Wonder if the record had come
• 15:52
  right out when it should have air quotes.
• 15:54
  Maybe the band would have had a different arc, but it's again,
• 15:59
  it's hard to know. We can all.
• 16:00
  It's hard to know and and part of me thinks because we were,
• 16:04
  you know, dealing with addiction pretty heavily, even at the end
• 16:08
  of finishing the record, you know, it might not have been a
• 16:11
  good thing if that record would have blown up right then been a
• 16:14
  much. More public spotlight on the
• 16:16
  band. Yeah, well, you know, if your
• 16:18
  dreams come true, when you're, if your, if your dreams come
• 16:21
  true and you're really messed up on drugs, it's can be a bad
• 16:24
  combo. Right on.
• 16:26
  And not to mention if you've ever been on drugs or alcohol
• 16:29
  and then you are at you get sober and clean and you're
• 16:31
  around people who aren't, it's very difficult to maintain the
• 16:34
  friendship or any ally ship. It's really hard.
• 16:37
  So I know personally how that goes.
• 16:40
  I think one of the best stories in that I don't think I really
• 16:44
  had an appreciation for was the sort of probably most people
• 16:49
  outside the band don't know about the mending of the
• 16:51
  friendships. I think that's more important to
• 16:53
  me than the band coming back for Mainers Chinquanta 50th birthday
• 16:58
  party celebration and the El Rey show reunion, which we were at
• 17:01
  actually uncovered and which I felt like I couldn't even
• 17:05
  believe it was happening when I got the press release about it.
• 17:09
  But I think the mending of the friendships is a very special
• 17:11
  and important thing that a lot of times that doesn't get to
• 17:14
  happen. So the fact that we have music
• 17:16
  on top of it is very lucky, but I think that it's really nice
• 17:20
  that everybody got to get to a place where you could reconnect
• 17:23
  and just be friends like it was in the beginning.
• 17:25
  You know, music is always a thing that brings us together
• 17:27
  but sometimes pulls us apart too.
• 17:30
  So I think it's very, I think a lot of people be, you know, it's
• 17:32
  a very nice lift to the film, to the heaviness of all the things.
• 17:36
  Here's this beautiful little story in here about, you know,
• 17:39
  the friendships getting fixed 1st and I think that's very
• 17:41
  nice. Yeah.
• 17:42
  I mean, it couldn't have happened otherwise because there
• 17:45
  were, you know, it's, it's the work that we do together is
• 17:49
  pretty intense. And you got to be willing to
• 17:53
  play things musically or do things musically that you're
• 17:56
  unsure of in front of your peers.
• 17:59
  And if you're not, if you're not on good terms with that peer,
• 18:03
  you're just not going to express yourself.
• 18:05
  And so the, yeah, that was the that rekindling of the
• 18:10
  friendship between Greg and I actually took several years.
• 18:13
  It wasn't just like a few months, it was several years
• 18:18
  bonding over the fact that we had kids around the same age and
• 18:22
  we were kind of freaked out as, as new parents and kind of like
• 18:26
  sharing stories like, is it okay if this happens?
• 18:30
  And you know, and that that just opened the gate eventually to
• 18:37
  playing, sitting down with guitars and just messing around.
• 18:40
  And so it was very organic and I couldn't really see it happening
• 18:46
  any other way because it would have just felt forced.
• 18:49
  Right. And then I love the comment.
• 18:51
  I think Greg says in the films, like I didn't even think like
• 18:54
  once the El Rey show happened, OK, now we're kind of back and
• 18:58
  we kind of have to see the Gregor Kelly was like, now we're
• 19:00
  back and we kind of have to stay back, stay together now somehow.
• 19:04
  So I thought that was really cool.
• 19:05
  I'm sorry if I'm misremembering. I only watched it twice.
• 19:08
  Yeah. But that was Greg, Yeah.
• 19:10
  Yeah, it's Greg. Thank you.
• 19:11
  And think what you, you know, see what you're thinking at 3:00
• 19:15
  in the morning watching these things.
• 19:16
  And anywho, yeah, just I love that.
• 19:20
  That was like the impetus to move things forward.
• 19:22
  I think the hardest and monsters great.
• 19:24
  It was a great comeback was a it seems like a lifetime ago.
• 19:28
  It's only 10 years ago and it seems like forever ago.
• 19:32
  And you said you kind of had a, you know, new, you know, figure
• 19:35
  out how to work together, You know, we, you know, certain
• 19:37
  things fit right back together. And Kelly was like, oh, does
• 19:39
  this even I have to listen to this?
• 19:41
  And what if I hate it? Like I have to love it or I
• 19:44
  didn't want to do do is it worth doing?
• 19:45
  And all these emotions you the whole band goes through this
• 19:48
  range of emotions and then comes out with this great record.
• 19:51
  And I think unfortunately, despite the pandemic, I think
• 19:54
  wild type Droid was also incredible, actually.
• 19:57
  And we had it on the list. We did like a feature last year
• 20:00
  on noise rock music and. The legends of noise rock and
• 20:03
  maybe someone heralded and some you should know and of course
• 20:06
  failure is in there and so wild type draya just come out at that
• 20:09
  time and so, you know, just just prior.
• 20:12
  So yeah, what a what a phenomenal comeback story for
• 20:17
  all of you. But yeah, that that difference
• 20:19
  between the two records, I I feel like I might be safe to say
• 20:24
  for me as a listener that Wild Type Droids a little more
• 20:27
  comfortable as a record. Like it's definitely they both
• 20:30
  they're both great failure records, but I feel like Wild
• 20:33
  Type Droid is what I would expect this century's failure to
• 20:36
  sound like. Well, the, I think we were very
• 20:40
  relaxed in our, in our shoes by the time we got to that 3rd
• 20:45
  reboot record, you know, we'd made two records and, you know,
• 20:50
  maybe we weren't putting as much pressure on ourselves to, to, to
• 20:54
  live up to fantastic planet. We were just kind of like, you
• 20:57
  know, we're, we're, we're just, we're together now and let's
• 21:00
  just, let's make a new record and see what comes of it.
• 21:03
  So there may be a little less editorial mindset when we were
• 21:08
  making it, and it's shorter too. We wanted to kind of cast aside
• 21:12
  this whole idea of having to make like hour long bus records
• 21:18
  which take, they do take a lot longer to make and why not
• 21:22
  shorten the time between records and and just kind of have a
• 21:26
  little bit more fun with it. Right on.
• 21:28
  I'm still an album lover and listener.
• 21:31
  I love a whole album. You know, we I don't want to
• 21:33
  repeat my steps in a past interview, but we talked about
• 21:36
  our mutual love of different bands growing up similar and I
• 21:41
  love a beautifully constructed whole album.
• 21:44
  I'm still into sequencing my love Segways and interludes and
• 21:48
  Pink Floyd is still my North star musically in a lot of ways,
• 21:52
  despite the metal head that everybody knows me to be.
• 21:54
  But you know, I, I don't. I wonder what the place of the
• 21:58
  album will continue to be in this weirdo for, you know,
• 22:01
  bizarro world of streaming and AI music and two-minute songs
• 22:05
  and things and 30 minute albums is in an album is in an EP.
• 22:09
  What is the difference? So I love that you you guys
• 22:12
  still want to make whole albums. I hope there will be another
• 22:15
  failure full album, even if it's a little shorter and not 17
• 22:19
  songs, maybe 12 is enough or seven or or 9 is sometimes
• 22:22
  enough for Tool. So that's fine.
• 22:24
  But you know, it's such a strange world we're in where
• 22:27
  music has, you know, to me, it's still as important as ever.
• 22:30
  But to some people, it's just like the background, you know,
• 22:33
  it's what they listen to at the laundromat or the shopping mall.
• 22:36
  And I don't love that, you know, I think that's that's not great
• 22:39
  what we've done. We didn't do it, but you know.
• 22:42
  Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to know where it's
• 22:44
  gonna go. You know, sometimes there's
• 22:46
  backlashes. It's, you know, against what is
• 22:49
  the current most popular formatting of music.
• 22:52
  We, we just, for us, it's just, we just like albums.
• 22:56
  We just love the idea of sequencing.
• 22:59
  And actually, since we generally write and record as one process,
• 23:05
  we're thinking about sequencing very early on, you know, like
• 23:08
  where would this where do you see this fitting in an album
• 23:11
  sequence? Well, this would probably be
• 23:13
  towards the end or toward, you know, so it's it's it's a we're
• 23:17
  just we've just never been a like single song oriented band.
• 23:21
  It's all about the kind of tapestry that they that the
• 23:25
  songs make together. But having said that, I do think
• 23:29
  that we're kind of on a, you know, seat like when when we
• 23:33
  made Fantastic Planet, there no bands that were our size were
• 23:39
  pressing vinyl. Like the late bulls were just
• 23:41
  like, vinyl's dead. There's no point.
• 23:43
  It's C DS and maybe cassettes were also kind of starting to go
• 23:48
  out of fashion and C DS have like 70 minutes of face on them.
• 23:54
  And it's just so interesting because you look at the history
• 23:57
  of the album and how it changed from like a 40 minute to a 70
• 24:03
  minute limitation. And I feel like because we've
• 24:07
  gotten we've done so well in the vinyl world with our new albums
• 24:12
  and our old albums. You know, I, I'm more people
• 24:16
  stream our music than listen to it on vinyl for sure.
• 24:19
  But because people are buying physical and supporting the band
• 24:23
  in such a huge way, we just can't help but be influenced by
• 24:28
  that. And I think and, and we've been
• 24:31
  thinking about and going back to older records that are have been
• 24:36
  important to us and just kind of realizing the craft that used to
• 24:41
  go into making a succinct and beautiful 40 minute record or 35
• 24:47
  minute record. And so we're we're deep into
• 24:49
  that right now. Oh, I love hearing that.
• 24:51
  That's amazing. That was my found.
• 24:54
  My follow up question is can we, you know, I know everybody is
• 24:57
  busy doing things and producing side projects, touring all the
• 25:01
  things studio work, but I would love to get another failure
• 25:04
  record. I think would be like the
• 25:05
  medicine we need right now is a new one.
• 25:09
  No press. There's one in the works.
• 25:10
  There's definitely one in the works.
• 25:12
  I had a feeling, but you know, I think this film stands on its
• 25:16
  own. The live album also was great
• 25:17
  and I wanted to shout you out for the remastered box set
• 25:21
  because I think also in the bigger music industry world,
• 25:24
  there's a lot of stuff that's been lost.
• 25:26
  We all know about, you know, changes in in studio work,
• 25:30
  archival things. I don't think people realize
• 25:33
  that for a long time a lot of vinyl was mastered off of CDs
• 25:36
  ill and not not from original tapes or Dats.
• 25:41
  I'm sure I made one of the last albums ever on that, by the way,
• 25:44
  with my my thrash band in the in the early 2000s.
• 25:47
  And and that was a whole a whole ass thing.
• 25:51
  But I really think that remastered box set was, you
• 25:55
  know, timing and also good for the band to do also, you know,
• 26:00
  to get your final. Here's our final presentation of
• 26:02
  this early work for fans and put it in a wonderful package for
• 26:06
  people. You know, again, that's built
• 26:08
  for nerds like me and, you know, and yeah, and, and yourself, of
• 26:13
  course, as as the artist, you know, making it too.
• 26:16
  But I think also, you know, streaming doesn't have to all
• 26:19
  it. It doesn't have to be this be
• 26:21
  all and end all. And I try to tell that to
• 26:24
  people. And, and I think also like it's
• 26:26
  a it's a search engine for music.
• 26:28
  If you see it as anything more than that, you're going to feel
• 26:31
  a lot of angst and and, and suffer because it's not going to
• 26:35
  the system is not geared to pay artists.
• 26:37
  It really isn't, unfortunately. I do see some new things like
• 26:40
  Amp Wall is a competitor band camp that came along.
• 26:43
  I think they're pretty interesting and you know, sort
• 26:46
  of an open platform that doesn't charge a lot.
• 26:49
  And I think that's that would be useful for more competitors in
• 26:52
  that scene. But yeah, I don't know, you
• 26:54
  know, you don't get to watch a whole movie before you buy it or
• 26:58
  you go see it until it's on streaming later, a few months
• 27:01
  later or a few, you know, weeks later sometimes if there if it's
• 27:04
  a bad movie. So, you know, things are
• 27:06
  changing. Technology can't be afraid of
• 27:08
  it. You always embraced it.
• 27:09
  The band always embraced it. And I'm very excited to see what
• 27:13
  the future of failure is past this film and and for new music
• 27:18
  hopefully in the next year. Just for a last question,
• 27:20
  because I love to end these with a wild card question.
• 27:23
  And I want a you, you know, we're a film student and made
• 27:25
  this documentary. So what is your favorite?
• 27:28
  Doesn't have to be music related, but what is your
• 27:29
  favorite documentary ever? Oh, I'm not going to.
• 27:33
  I don't know if I'm going to remember the title, but it's the
• 27:37
  documentary that Francis Ford Coppola's wife made about
• 27:41
  Apocalypse Now. What was that called?
• 27:44
  Heart of Heart of Hearts of Darkness, Hearts of Darkness.
• 27:47
  I love that documentary. It's just, it's so inspiring as
• 27:51
  a filmmaker and she she just captured everything that the
• 27:57
  chaos of of making that that insane film.
• 28:01
  I love that. I've seen it at least three or
• 28:03
  four times. Fantastic.
• 28:06
  Again, no pun intended. Ken Andrews, Every Time You Lose
• 28:09
  Your Mind is streaming on Hulu and Disney Plus.
• 28:12
  Thank you so much for this film. Thank you so much for hanging
• 28:14
  out with us again. It's a real pleasure.
• 28:16
  And my best to you and all the guys.
• 28:18
  And we'll see you out there soon, I hope.
• 28:20
  Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
• 28:22
  I appreciate it.