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The Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy Global Summit with Fleet Maull, PhD · The Trauma Therapist

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  Speaker 1: Trauma Theverist podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Trauma divers Podcast, a show about the
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  Speaker 2: incredible people dedicated to helping those who experienced trauma. My
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: name is got macpherson, and my mission is to raise
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  Speaker 2: awareness of trauma and to inspire each of us to
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  Speaker 2: help those around us.
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  Speaker 3: All right, you ready to do it?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: All right, here we go.
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  Speaker 2: So five, four, three, two and one are folks. Welcome
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  Speaker 2: back to the podcast. Very excited to happen to my
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  Speaker 2: guest today, doctor Fleet. Maul Fleet, Welcome.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me guys, great see you awesome.
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  Speaker 2: So Fleet is the founder and CEO of Heartmind Institute,
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  Speaker 2: also Win Toward Seminars and Consulting, as well as a
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  Speaker 2: senior part partner and Principal and New Line Consulting. He
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  Speaker 2: is an IMTA certified Professional Mindful Mindfulness Teacher and then Acharia,
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  Speaker 2: which is a senior meditation teacher in the Tibetan tradition,
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  Speaker 2: as well as a roshi in the International Zen peacemaker community.
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  Speaker 2: While serving fourteen years in a federal prison on drug charges,
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  Speaker 2: Fleet co founded the first inside prison hospice program anywhere
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  Speaker 2: in the world and launch two national movements, the Prison
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  Speaker 2: Hospice Movement through the National Prison Hospice Association and the
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  Speaker 2: Prison Dharma Mindfulness movement through the Prison Dharma Network and
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  Speaker 2: Prison Mindfulness Institute. Fleet has written many articles and has
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  Speaker 2: given numerous interviews on a variety of mindfulness and leadership
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  Speaker 2: related topics. He's the author of Radical Responsibility, How to
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  Speaker 2: Move Beyond Blame, furiously, live your highest purpose, and become
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  Speaker 2: an enstumble force for good.
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  Speaker 1: Fleet. Welcome to the podcast again.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, guys.
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  Speaker 2: Incredible background before we get go in here, share with
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  Speaker 2: all listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently.
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  Speaker 1: Well.
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  Speaker 4: I grew up in the Midwest, actually in Saint Louis,
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  Speaker 4: kind of middle class Roman Catholic upbringing in the nineteen fifties.
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  Speaker 4: Came of age in the sixties, went through the countercultural Revolution,
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  Speaker 4: thing full participant in that. Today I live in western
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  Speaker 4: Massachusetts with my wife Sophie, and we lived about two
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  Speaker 4: hours west of Boston and the Connecticut River Valley and
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  Speaker 4: a little New England town, really quiet, little bluecolic village.
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  Speaker 2: Nice. Nice. So, I mean there's a lot to talk about.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I know you have a lot going with
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  Speaker 2: Heartmind Institute on different summits. We're going to focus on
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  Speaker 2: one summit, in particularly the Psychedelic Assist the Therapy Summit,
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  Speaker 2: but give our listeners kind of a brief synopsis. First
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  Speaker 2: of all, how did this all start for you? And
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  Speaker 2: then we'll get into Heartmind Institute and the different summits.
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  Speaker 4: Sure, I'll try to do that really briefly. First, I
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  Speaker 4: think I was born a seeker. All through my early life,
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  Speaker 4: I was trying to understand the nature mind, nature, reality,
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  Speaker 4: A spiritual a natural kind of spiritual seeker.
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  Speaker 3: As I mentioned before, I went through the you know,
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  Speaker 3: headlong into.
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  Speaker 4: The whole countercultural revolution of the sixties and seventies, and
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  Speaker 4: and you know, was caught up in all the drug section,
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  Speaker 4: rock and roll and all that, but also there was
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  Speaker 4: this true line of being a seeker. And before I
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  Speaker 4: could untangle all that, I earned my way into a
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  Speaker 4: federal prison sense a mandatory minimum drug sentence. I spent
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  Speaker 4: fourteen years in a federal prison. But along the way
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  Speaker 4: I'd also done a three year clinical training in contemplar
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  Speaker 4: psychotherapy and integration of Buddhists in Western psychology. I've been
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  Speaker 4: trained as a Buddhist teacher for ten years, you know,
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  Speaker 4: so I obviously was compartmentalizing my life about the ways.
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  Speaker 4: But anyway, by the time I landed in prison, I
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  Speaker 4: had a lot of training, a lot of skills, and
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  Speaker 4: that was a huge wake up call.
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  Speaker 3: My son was nine years old at the time. I
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  Speaker 3: had to face the.
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  Speaker 4: Reality of what I'd done to him and all the
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  Speaker 4: incredible selfish decisions I've been making for so long, and
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  Speaker 4: so I just became radically focused on getting all the
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  Speaker 4: negativity out of my life, taking all the good I'd received,
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  Speaker 4: and doing something positive with living a better legacy for
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  Speaker 4: my son than just his dad went to prison or
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  Speaker 4: died in prison. I know surely had survived my time.
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  Speaker 4: So that really became my monastery, my ausharm time, and
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  Speaker 4: I was focused on really engaged in the community.
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  Speaker 3: I was teaching school.
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  Speaker 4: I started the first hospice program anywhere in a in
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  Speaker 4: any prison in world.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, you know, And.
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  Speaker 4: As you mentioned in Maya, Bi, all these two national
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  Speaker 4: movements came out of that work, and I've been out
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  Speaker 4: of prison since nineteen ninety nine, so about twenty five years,
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  Speaker 4: and so I've been very involved in studying and practicing
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  Speaker 4: mynd influence across many traditions for over fifty years now.
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  Speaker 4: I've been studying neuros for a long time, studying psychology
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  Speaker 4: for a long time. I have a PhD in psychology,
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  Speaker 4: and I've been very involved in executive coaching, business consulting.
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  Speaker 4: I've been a seminar workshop leader, leading transformational workshops around
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  Speaker 4: the world. Before the pandemic, I was basically a road
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  Speaker 4: warrior doing that, but at some point I had to
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  Speaker 4: try to move that work online and then when the
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  Speaker 4: pandemic hit, it really took off, and that was Harbin Institute,
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  Speaker 4: and so we have a lot of courses online and
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  Speaker 4: we do a lot of summits. And it's really the integration.
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  Speaker 4: It's really a culmination of all this work I've been
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  Speaker 4: doing for the last fifty years or longer, and it's
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  Speaker 4: the integration of ancestral wisdom, contemplar wisdom, East and West
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  Speaker 4: Indigenous wisdom, appropriately related with with saga reciprocity, and the
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  Speaker 4: integration of all that with current science, current neuroscience, current psychology,
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  Speaker 4: positive psychology, positive noplasticity, of listening. So our work is
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  Speaker 4: all about helping people optimize their well being, their happiness,
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  Speaker 4: quality of their relationships, their their career success, their professional success,
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  Speaker 4: just optimizing their lives altogether. And so we have someone's
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  Speaker 4: on resilience, we have someone's.
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  Speaker 3: On rewiring your brain. We have a lot of courses that.
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  Speaker 4: Are around the same kind of content. I have my
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  Speaker 4: Radical Responsibility book and Model, which is about the power
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  Speaker 4: choice and the power of embracing really radical personal responsibility
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  Speaker 4: and personal accountability for the choices you're making in life
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  Speaker 4: and what you're creating for yourself with those choices, and
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  Speaker 4: how that's not a burden but really a doorway into
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  Speaker 4: incredible personal power and freedom. And so that that's kind
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  Speaker 4: of the work, and we offer in a lot of
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  Speaker 4: different iterations, but basically we also have a big focus
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  Speaker 4: on healing trauma and post traumatic growth and we're really,
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  Speaker 4: you know, we're fairly cutting edge around all of this,
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  Speaker 4: and our summits include really the leading speakers worldwide in
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  Speaker 4: healing trauma, in positive neuroplasticity, positive psychology.
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  Speaker 3: Rewiring your brain to optimize your life.
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  Speaker 4: All these things are really the leading clinicians and neuroscientists
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  Speaker 4: in the world are on our summits.
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  Speaker 2: And for those who maybe aren't really sure, a summit is.
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  Speaker 4: What, Yeah, well, it's a kind of conference and online conference.
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  Speaker 4: And there's different models for summits. Our summit is sometimes
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  Speaker 4: called the free summit model. We do summits could be anywhere.
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  Speaker 4: Commonly there's six days, but we do something that are
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  Speaker 4: three days, five days. We've done some as many as
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  Speaker 4: nine or ten days, and they're free, and so we
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  Speaker 4: enroll anywhere from thirty to eighty thousand and the initial
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  Speaker 4: running of our summits, and some of our summits with
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  Speaker 4: the replays that we run have been rolled like two
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  Speaker 4: hundred and fifty thousand people.
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  Speaker 3: By now in a particular.
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  Speaker 4: And then roll for free, and they have depending on
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  Speaker 4: the summit, they either have twenty four hours or forty
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  Speaker 4: eight hours access to each day's presentations, and there's usually
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  Speaker 4: seven or eight presentations a day and they all become
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  Speaker 4: available at the same time, so you can just pick
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  Speaker 4: and choose.
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  Speaker 3: What you want to watch.
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  Speaker 4: But people who would like to take longer with it
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  Speaker 4: or come back to it are interested then in purchasing
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  Speaker 4: the what we call the lifetime access upgrade that includes
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  Speaker 4: a lot includes all the contents of that summit, plus
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  Speaker 4: a lot of bonuses off on other summits. And that's
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  Speaker 4: how that's how we monetize it, so to speak. And
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  Speaker 4: we're able to apport to be profitable and then put
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  Speaker 4: profit back into continue to grow and off for more summits.
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  Speaker 4: But this way we're able to reach we've reached probably
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  Speaker 4: about in the last four years, we've reached over a million,
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  Speaker 4: probably a million, two hundred thousand people with our summits
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  Speaker 4: now all around the world, and you know, the majority
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  Speaker 4: probably in North American Europe, but we have people in
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  Speaker 4: almost every country in the world coming to our summits
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  Speaker 4: and people who would in otherwise be able to access
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  Speaker 4: this material. And then a small percentage of people decide
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  Speaker 4: to pursu the upgrade and invest in themselves and invest
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  Speaker 4: with us, and that allows us to keep doing it.
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  Speaker 4: So that's kind of the way the model works.
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  Speaker 2: So today we're going to focus in a sense on
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  Speaker 2: one of the summits coming up, and I'm just looking
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  Speaker 2: at the website here to all new third Annual Psychedelic
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  Speaker 2: Assistant Therapy Global Summit, which is going from October eighth
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  Speaker 2: to the fourteenth in twenty twenty four. Now, before we
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  Speaker 2: talk about some specifically, talk a little bit about if
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  Speaker 2: you don't mind, as kind of an entree about the
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  Speaker 2: psychedelics and the role of psychedelics and how you become
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  Speaker 2: you talk to your you talked about your experience in
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  Speaker 2: the sixties. I'm assuming there's some connection there, but I
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  Speaker 2: don't know, but.
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  Speaker 3: There there is a strong connection there.
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  Speaker 4: I was very involved in with psychiaolics in the sixties
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  Speaker 4: and early seventies, actually well throughout the seventies.
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  Speaker 3: Uh.
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  Speaker 4: Actually in my South Amerria high school in nineteen sixty six,
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  Speaker 4: I discovered Buddhism, cannabis, and LSD all in the same summer,
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  Speaker 4: and it kind of went on from there. But I I,
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  Speaker 4: you know, and like a lot of us back in
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  Speaker 4: that era, I was involved with psychedelics, uh recreacially, you know,
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  Speaker 4: partying some of that craziness, but also spiritually a lot
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  Speaker 4: of things out in nature and then uh and also
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  Speaker 4: as a way to just really explore consciousness. And then
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  Speaker 4: I lived in South America for quite a long time,
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  Speaker 4: and I was very involved in the plant medicine world
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  Speaker 4: down there. Primarily I was known as Wacama or San Pedro,
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  Speaker 4: which is as it contains payote. But it's a different
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  Speaker 4: cactus than the uh than the cactus than the Paoti
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  Speaker 4: cactus here in the US and in Mexico and so forth.
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  Speaker 4: Uh so, but it's uh they both have mescaline and
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  Speaker 4: South very involved in for a long time, ceremonially and
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  Speaker 4: studying with teachers and so forth. So then when I,
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  Speaker 4: you know, when I earned my way into that federal
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  Speaker 4: present system, all my drug us stopped, and in fact
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  Speaker 4: it stopped several years before that, and then coming out,
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  Speaker 4: I had no interest in being involved in drugs, and
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  Speaker 4: also was on supervision anyway for a long time, so
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  Speaker 4: I needed to stay drug pree. But I had no
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  Speaker 4: interest in getting involved in drugs again. But I started
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  Speaker 4: over time reading about this emergence of what's been called
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  Speaker 4: a psychic renaissance, and I was a little skeptical about it,
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  Speaker 4: especially seeing a lot of this stuff about shamanism and
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  Speaker 4: Peru and the kind of hyahuasca tourism that's going on.
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  Speaker 3: And because I.
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  Speaker 4: Lived in these countries and I know what the real
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  Speaker 4: deal is, and I thought some of this looks a
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  Speaker 4: little like maybe made up, and some of it, but
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  Speaker 4: I was still open minded, so I kept following it.
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  Speaker 4: But then I started to see what was going on
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  Speaker 4: with the emergence of psychic assistant psychotherapy, and I got
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  Speaker 4: very interested because I started seeing some of the research
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  Speaker 4: where these therapistes were having a profound healing impact for
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  Speaker 4: people suffering from very difficult to treat mental health challenges
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  Speaker 4: a severe depression, anxiety disorders, a panic disorders addictions PTSD,
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  Speaker 4: especially veterans with PTSD, and so I got very interested
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  Speaker 4: in this because I've always been profoundly interested in healing.
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  Speaker 4: I'm trained as a psychotherapist. I never went that direction.
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  Speaker 4: I became more of a more involved in consulting and coaching.
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  Speaker 4: But you know, I had the master's gree a deep
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  Speaker 4: clinical training program that I got my PhD in psychology.
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  Speaker 4: So I've just always been very interested in that world.
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  Speaker 4: So I kept doing the reach. Science said well, I
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  Speaker 4: think we should do a summit in this area, and
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  Speaker 4: so we did our first one in twenty twenty two,
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  Speaker 4: and along the way over this now three years, I've
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  Speaker 4: really gotten to know all the major players in the field.
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  Speaker 4: I knew some of them already through other connections, but
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  Speaker 4: I've really you know, we had Besselvanacle on our summits,
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  Speaker 4: quite a few of our summit because he's one of
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  Speaker 4: the leading trauma therapists in the world right and his
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  Speaker 4: book The Body Keeps the Score is like this amazing phenomena.
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  Speaker 4: It has been on the top of the non fiction
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  Speaker 4: best like three hundred weeks. But he's an amazing uh
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  Speaker 4: clinician and theorists and practitioner and so. But he's also
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  Speaker 4: gotten involved in psychicalist and psychotherapy.
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  Speaker 3: So he's one example.
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  Speaker 4: Some people are already knew from other fields who were
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  Speaker 4: also involved in this, but now I got to know
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  Speaker 4: a lot of new people and so and on our
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  Speaker 4: summits we've had really almost all the leading researchers, clinicians,
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  Speaker 4: real pioneers of the field, uh, people like Stan Groff,
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  Speaker 4: Paul Stammett, Andrew wil uh Deepakachropra uh and researches like
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  Speaker 4: Robin Carheart Harris and and uh Roslind Watts and and
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  Speaker 4: uh Matthew Johnson and and.
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  Speaker 3: Uh really well you name it.
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  Speaker 4: Well, almost all the major influencers, so called movers and
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  Speaker 4: shakers in this emerging field of psych consistent therapy and
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  Speaker 4: medicine have been on our summits, and so we're really
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  Speaker 4: involved in trying to build We're committed to building this field,
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  Speaker 4: and we feel like we're partnering with people in this
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  Speaker 4: field to really build this field in a good way.
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  Speaker 4: You know, back in the sixties, a lot of us
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  Speaker 4: had is idea, if we could just get everybody to
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  Speaker 4: drop LSD, the world would change and everything would be great.
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  Speaker 4: It didn't quite work out that way, and then of
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  Speaker 4: course there was a huge suppression and things.
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  Speaker 3: Were made illegal.
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  Speaker 4: But there's a new chance now And in doing my research,
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  Speaker 4: I saw that there are so many nonprofit organizations out
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  Speaker 4: there and networks of people trying to do it right
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  Speaker 4: this time, trying to this movement so we don't get
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  Speaker 4: the huge backlash that we got last time. So we
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: take care of people, so we reduce the harm and
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  Speaker 4: really optimize the benefit of these medicines.
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  Speaker 3: And so.
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  Speaker 4: I'm really encouraged by that. But we really want to
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  Speaker 4: participate in that because there's still a lot of there's
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  Speaker 4: a lot of risks. These medicines are very powerful. You know,
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  Speaker 4: there's a little bit of a wild West right now
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  Speaker 4: now with the psychaic renaissance, there is the whole kind
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  Speaker 4: of in terms of psycholic consistent therapy is the only
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  Speaker 4: one that's legal currently as KEDEMI. The others are are
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  Speaker 4: are happening within clinical trials, and the FDA has approved
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  Speaker 4: clinical trials is start again quite a while ago, some
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  Speaker 4: maybe ten years ago. So other clinical trials, legitimate clinical
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  Speaker 4: trials going on with MDMA, with PSILOCYBMIN with LSD, with
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  Speaker 4: d MT, with many psycholic medicines mescal and so forth,
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  Speaker 4: but none of them have been made legal for the
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  Speaker 4: public for therapy yet. We thought MDMA might get rescheduled
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  Speaker 4: this August, but the FDA decided not to.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's it's inevitable.
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  Speaker 4: It's probably just going to delay it a year perhaps
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  Speaker 4: or hopefully less. Australia did approve both the use of
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: the therapeutic use by physicians as part of therapy both
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: and the may and psilocybin earlier this year, so I
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  Speaker 4: think it's inevitable that some of these medicines will will
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  Speaker 4: be rescheduled by the FDA and the DEA for use
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  Speaker 4: by a therapists in the context of psycho consistent psychotherapy.
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  Speaker 4: But even still, it's really the training is so important
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  Speaker 4: as we roll this out there are so many issues.
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  Speaker 4: How to roll this out in a way that it's safe,
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  Speaker 4: the practitioners are well trained, that the consumer is well
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  Speaker 4: educated or what they're getting into that, and then how
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  Speaker 4: to roll it out in an equitable way because the
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  Speaker 4: way it's being done in the clinical trials is really expensive.
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  Speaker 4: If that would be the model, only the elite could
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  Speaker 4: afford it, right, So we have to find new models
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  Speaker 4: of how this is going to roll out be available
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  Speaker 4: in an equitable way for everyone who could benefit from it.
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  Speaker 4: And there's a lot of people, brilliant people working on
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  Speaker 4: this right. So there's a lot of possibilities, and it's
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  Speaker 4: an exciting emerging field that has so much promise for
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  Speaker 4: healing so much human suffering. But it's got to be
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  Speaker 4: stewarded really well, and the science has got to be good,
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  Speaker 4: and the training got to be good, and good ethical
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  Speaker 4: principles and honoring the issues around inclusion and diversity and
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  Speaker 4: with the plant medicines and indigenous communities, honoring sacred postity
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  Speaker 4: and so forth. So we're working really hard with our
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  Speaker 4: colleagues in the field to at least participate play some
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: small role in helping stewards feel forward in the most
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: beneficial way.
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  Speaker 2: We remind everyone. I'm speaking with doctor fleet Mall. We're
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: talking specifically Dox fleet Mall the Heart Mindeds Tout, and
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: we're talking specifically about his summit, Psychedelic asist at Therapy
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Global Summit starting October eighth and going through the fourteenth.
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  Speaker 2: So let's dial in here and talk a little bit
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  Speaker 2: more specifically about this summit.
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  Speaker 1: Who's the four mm.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, it's for everyone in a sense, but I
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  Speaker 4: would say it's the same time. The primary off audience
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  Speaker 4: is probably mental health professionals. Now, the first year we
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: had a huge and I think it was just perfect
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  Speaker 4: timing and we had a huge enrollment the first year,
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  Speaker 4: and it was probably sixty percent lay people, right, the
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: general audience. There's a huge interest in this. Last year,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: I think it was maybe flip maybe it was sixty
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: percent mental health professionals support percent lay audience.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: I expect it will be something similar this year.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: You know, I think there's still a growing interest among
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: the public in this. But I think that that at
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: least the people were reaching with our networks and our
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: lists and our affiliates and so forth.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Among the lay public, I think we may have met their.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: Needs for information for a while, but I think we'll
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: continue to enroll because the public has a great interest
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: in this, and many people.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: In the public don't even know about it yet.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: And many people who were suffering and not really benefiting
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: from the existing treatments for depression and anxiety and and
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: so forth. Some of those treatments the SRIS, and some
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: benefit some people, but they don't benefit a lot. And
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: these new medicines offered great promise. These new therapies are
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: for great promise, So I think we'll have a growing
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: audience there. But we really do focus on the mental
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: health professionals and clinicians, and in fact, we're building a
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: what we're calling the Psychoic Practitioners Academy, and that's an
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: annual subscription membership program where people who have subscribe to
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: that membership at very low costs will have access to
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: all of our summits ongoing, all that content plus courses.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: We already have one course that we built on psychoic
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: consistance psychotherapy with doctor Ron Siegel. We're building another one
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: right now with Sunny Strasburg, an amazing practitioner, integrating kedemy
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: assistant therapy with the internal family systems and archetypal psychology.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: We're building a course with her around what she calls
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: her therapelic approach, and we're going to be building more
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: courses and so the members of the Psychiaolic Practitioners Academy
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: will have ongoing access to all that. They'll get their
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: seees covered, they won't have to pay action for their
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: cease and they'll and we all all of our summit
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: and courses all have American Psychological Associations cees.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Available and UH.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: And then we'll be doing other things as we build
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: out that community. UH will probably have some kind of
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: UH free live workshop once a week with a with
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: a UH leading clinicians.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: UH.
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: We're eventually going to build in a practice practice management
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: platform within it and so forth. So we're really looking
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: to build a home for UH psychic UH Medicine, psychoic
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: therapy practitioners where they know they'll get the cutting edge education,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: continuing education and all the resources they and then have
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: a community of peers that they can network with and
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: so forth.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: So we're building that very much.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: But so I think that the summit is such that
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: and we structure you such that they will be of
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: interest to anyone who's interested in this field, and there
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: will be very much a particular interest to mental health professionals,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: and I think really in some ways necessary interests like
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: this is one way to really stay up breast because
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: you know, we're really addressed in the latest research. The
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: latest findings were our interviews are with all the people
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: currently who are most influential in this submerging field.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, so they're again looking at the website. There are
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: a number of people who I am familiar with and
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I've interviewed, and actually James Fatiman is on there who
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I was a student of his at Institute of Transpersonal Psychology.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I was in his class. Amazing teacher. But getting more
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: specific fleet putting myself in the shoes of someone who's
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: going to attend this conference, and there are a lot
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: of speakers, but let's maybe choose one or two streams
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: of what are they going to learn more specifically beyond
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: just psychedelics and psychedelics, what are some specific uh topics
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: that they're gonna possibly learn.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: So Day one focuses on Indigenous, Eastern and Western modes
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: of knowing and uh really the nature of consciousness, mind spirit.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: So it kind of sets a context and because in
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: terms of the world of psychiatry. We really are drawing
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: on all of those, right, and it's really important to
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: are the indigenous communities that have been stewarding these medicines
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: for thousands of years, right and uh and so uh,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: you know, we'll have some amazing speakers at Tirton, doctor
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: Joe Tafour, Anya los Engia Velder, Uh, some real amazing
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: speakers who are involved in the plant medicine world and
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: also who can speak to uh these questions about the
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: nature of mind and constants. We've had people like t
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: Pakchroprah and Dan Siegel and many others on Day one
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: in the past. So that's Day one. Then Day two
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: is really all about the research. It's about the research.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: It's about where we are with the possibility of rescheduling
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: some of these medicines for prescription, for therapeutic use and
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: so forth. So we have Rick Dobblin from MAPS, you know,
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: who's been leading the charge to to get the clinical
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: trials started again. You know, he tried to prevent MDM
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: A from being criminalized way back in the seventies. He
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: wasn't successful at that, but started the organization MAPS. They
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: do their big Psycholic Science in Person conference each year
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: was a huge phenomenal last last year in Denver, and
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: so he's really one of the leading drivers in the
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: efforts to have psycholic medicines rescheduled for therapeutic use and
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: his organization.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: We'll have Matthew Johnson.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: Again, one of the leading current researchers, Rick Strafsman who
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: wrote the book The Spirit Molecule about his work in
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: research into d m T Consenter Beach and from UC
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: San Diego and many others, Kathy MacLean and so forth.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: So that's really all about the research and well, we're
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: really getting into the nuts and bolts. What do we
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: know and what what where? What are the directions really
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: needed for further research, because obviously the FDA is saying
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: more research is going to be needed before they're going
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: to improve MDM A for rescheduling. But also we don't
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: really understand the therapy the We don't fully understand the
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: neural biological therapeutic mechanisms of these drugs. Jet We have ideas,
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: but we don't necessarily know they're working.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: We know they're having a huge impact, we.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: Don't know exactly how, and and it's also hard to
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: you know, dial that in because we may learn more
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: about the actual neurobiological mechanisms for increased neuroplasticity or increased.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Change what have you.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: But then there's a whole phenomenal set and setting and
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: the combination of the medicine with the psychotherapy.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: And the ballid role of a placebo effect in all
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: of this.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: So so it's a very common flex thing and there's
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: a lot of research that needs to be done. There's
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: a lot of fabulous research happening, and you know, it's
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: just I think really important to keep moving that research forward,
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: keep the feel of the breast of it so we
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: know what we know. This is the field whether there's
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: a lot of enthusiasm, and sometimes the enthusiasm and the
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: hype can get ahead of the research, and so we
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: need to make sure that we're grounding this in good science.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: So that's what they choose all about. Day three is
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: getting into very specific therapeutic applications. So the potential for
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: these medicines to work with people suffering from various kinds
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: of trauma and as well as from PTSD and or
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: addictions or specific types of addictions or anxiety disorders and
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: so forth.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: So that day really focuses.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: On the particular therapeutic applications and talking about some of
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: the protocols involved, some of the dosing and so forth
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: for safe delivery of these medicines. Then we have a
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: day focused on the real importance of preparation and integration,
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: the preparation of a client going into a session and
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: the integration of the experience afterwards, which are both absolutely
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: critical to optimizing the benefit and reducing any potential risk.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Or harm for that.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: Then we have a day focused on the evolving standards
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: and ethics the best practices both for the delivery of
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: psychic medicine and the training of clinicians. So a big
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: focus there on best practices and ethics and so forth.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: And again we have like Mr Gorman.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: Influence one of the leading training organizations, and we've had
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: we've had some of the leaders from CIIS and Europe
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: of offerre so two of the institutions offering professional certificate,
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: postgraduate professional certificate programs and so forth in psychedelics, in
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: psycholic medicines.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh wow, interesting, Okay.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, CIS, the California Seat of Integal Studies, has a
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: postgraduate professional certificate program for psycholic practitioners. SODA's Neuroality University
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: UH Andrew Wilds Center at the University of Arizona's developing
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: one specifically for physicians and influences, a non academic but
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: training organization. It's also certifying psychiatic practitioners.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Right let me let me pose you right there.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: So in terms of again, I'm putting myself in the
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: shoes of a participant to the summit.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: What is how what are the courses?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: What does it take to become.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Ethical ethical, but ethically competent to administer psychedelics as a therapist?
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: What is this a year long course? What is it?
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: What?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: What might it take?
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: I think for me, I think it's minimally a year
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: long course. People have different views about this, and of
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: course it depends on the clinicians background. You know, licensed therapists,
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: whether if they're master's level licensed therapists like you know,
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: Masters in Family and Counseling or something like that. So
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of practices have that level. Then use
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: your clinical psychologists, uh and you're PhD clinical psychologists. And
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: then there are social workers who are licensed social workers
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: who practice therapy and so forth as psychiatrists and so forth.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: And they all have different training, and they may have
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: more or less training in the actual doing of therapy,
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: and they may have more or less experience and actually.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Being in therapy.
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: You know, they may have done more or less of
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: their own personal work, right, they may have greater or
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: lesser understanding of the dynamics of transference and countertransference and
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: so forth. Now, assuming that most licensed professionals at least
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: have a good body of the things that I just mentioned,
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: then what do we need to add to that? But
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: we also need to keep in mind that in practicing
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: psychic consistent therapy, now there are different ones. You know,
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: ketamine's very short acting. Psilocybin involves you know, six to
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: eight hour sessions, right, and so you know what skill
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: set is involved in being able to not only prepare
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: someone but sit with someone for six or eight hours
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: and then do the integration we're following, right, And it's
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: really about how do you.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Really hold a safe space?
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: These medicines are very powerful, and so all the dynamics
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: that are there in traditional psychotherapy where there are risks
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: of where things could go awry if the practitioner is
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: not properly prepared, not fully aware, not fully present, not
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: aware of some of how their own dynamics might get
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: in the way. All that gets exacerbated with these psychic medicines. Right, So,
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: I think I think psychoic practitioners really need to study
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: the medicines. They need to understand something about the pharmacology involved,
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: about the effects. I think they need actual experience in
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: sitting with people who are having psychic experiences. Now, some
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: programs are using intensive breath work because things like holotropic
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: breath work pretty in many cases very strongly mimic actual
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: psychic experiences, and so without having to involve psychic medicines,
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: they can allow therapists and training to have the experience
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: of being with people who are having these kinds of
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: experiences through breath work as opposed to actually medicines. Right,
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: But there are opportunities in the trials and other ways
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: for people that have these experiences.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: One of the open questions out there is do clinicians
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: who practice psychaic assistant psychotherapy need to have had experience
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: with psychiatics themselves, especially the ones that are using in
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: their practice. I would say the majority of people I've
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: interviewed say yes, they need to.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: There are a few that think maybe it's an open question.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: Some think maybe it's an open question, but I think
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: the consensus you out there is that they need to
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: have their own experience, right.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I mean ideally you would think ideally.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: It seems like an obrater, but you know, and I
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: don't mean to be critical, but there are there are
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: a lot of mental health professionals who who provide mental
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: health services in one way or another, who have not
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: done a lot of personal work, right, So, and they
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: may be quite confident at referring people and doing things
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: and you know, getting people to a psychiatrist for prescription
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: medicine and any that. But you know, I think in
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: this work it's really important that the therapist has done
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: their own work and both certainly even without psychiaticals, that
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: they've done some of their own personal evolution therapeutic psychological work,
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: and so they have greater insight into themselves, and they
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: know who's showing up there to support the uh, the patient,
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: and they have those levels of self awareness that kind
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: of training and UH. But then personally, I think probably
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: it's good for them to have had experience with these
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: psychoic medicines. And of course it's always important for clinicians
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: to have a supervisory relationship with another clinician, right, So
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: I think I think all these things are are really
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: quite important. So I think, you know, in terms of
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: the training, it's not something that a current licensed practitioner
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: should think about doing a weekend and workshop and then
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: doing it. Whether it's six months, whether it's a year,
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I think it could be somewhere in
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: between six months to a year of a good solid
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: training program, but then ongoing continuing education, staying current with
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: the field, and continuing to do their own work because
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: the main thing is these bringing psychic medicines into the
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: therapeutic context. Just for me, it raises the bar for everything,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: right because these are powerful medicines and they really they
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: can really accelerate and accentuate they healing potentials, but there
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: could also be an exacerbation of risk or harm if
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: not held properly.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: This UH summit sounds incredible, but it also sounds very
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: uh well together. Uh. It sounds like you thought of
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: uh everything, in other words, what to present and how
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: to approach to me, it's very impressive. As we close
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: out here, fleet how do people learn about this?
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Well, you can just go to UH the website, the
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: land page. You can go to heartmind dot co Forward
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: slash Trauma Heartmind dot Co Forward slash Trauma and that'll
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: take you to the registration page for the Psychical Therapy
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: Summit and UH you can always reach out to are
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: to us at heartmind dot co and UH. And I
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: believe probably in the show notes in your you'll for
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: this episode, you'll have the links and so forth. But
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: there's a bull registration page. We are red straying now
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: it's open for regutation out there's already there's already I
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: think about fifteen thousand people registered already and.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: So we're actively resting.
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: And yeah, so people can go right to the page
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: and read all about you'll see all the speakers, you'll
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: see the schedule, you'll see everything that's going to happen.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: You can read all about all the informations there, and
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: you'll also have the opportunity to learn about the if
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: someone's interested. Again, there's a complete free summit and you
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: can participate in it, having forty eight hours each day's
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: presentations between October eighth and fourteenth. And if you wanted
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: to retain this as a resource, you'll be able to
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: purchase lifetime access for amazingly low cost, and then there
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: will also be the option of joining the Psychalic Practitioners Academy,
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: which will give you an.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Interesting as well.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: All right, well again, we'll have the sync app here
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: at the shown at the page at the trum at
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the riskpodcast dot com fleet Awesome, man, so exciting and
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: looking for to getting this out there.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you being here.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate you opportunity to speak to your audience.
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: I know your audience are primarily trauma therapists, and this
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: is such just an area of passion for me, and
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: all the work that we do is trauma informed.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: I'm very involved in the.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: Public safety Criminal Justice Face through our nonprofit, and we've
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: been studying trauma and how to really deliver trauma informed
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: care and trauma informed interventions and programs with populations and
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: individuals that have been placed at risk, that have been
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: marginalized and under resourced and so forth. So I just
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: I know, I love your community. I'm speaking of your audience.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: You are the people involved in this kind of trauma
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: healing trauma work. I think are some of the most
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: amazing human beings on the planet. And I think you'll
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: find this some of fascinating because that's really what there's
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: summit is all about, in the context of the potential
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: that these psychiatic medicines have for healing trauma.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it, all right, sir, We'll be in touch.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Okay, thank you guys.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: In many keep common