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Nancy Grace Killer Reads: A Likeable Woman · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Killer reads the Nancy Grace Book Club today. A Likable
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Woman is a brand new book by May Cobb, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: this is how it starts. When her grandmother gives Kira
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: a memoir that her mother, Kia's mother had been working
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: on before she committed suicide. Kia gets into the mind
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: of her mother that she can no longer speak to,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: can no longer ask questions of, and finds out about
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: a whole another side of her mother's life. This is
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: where I come in. Was it truly a suicide? Guys?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace and joining me right now. May Cobb,
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  Speaker 1: the author of A Likable Woman, also with us, and
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I felt after reading the book that I really needed
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a shrink. Okay, no offense make up. Also with me
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: as a renowned psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan trauma
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: and crime expert Karen Start at Karenstart dot com. That's
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Karen went to see May, now in your book A
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Likable Woman. First question I have is why do you
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: have a woman on the front in a swimsuit?
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: That's such a great question. So the publisher is terrific
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: at giving me these great catchy summary covers, and I
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: think they wanted something bold and beche. And there's that
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: scene in there with Sadie when she's in the pool
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: at their family's friend's house, so I think they also
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: wanted to capture like a pretty pivotal scene in the
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: book where something happens. So I think it just hints
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: at like sort of the mystery, the power of Sadie,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: and sort of the the sexiness too, and the sizzling secrets.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Sizling secrets. Okay, that was my first question. You name
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: your book a likable woman may also wrote My Summer Darlings.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Explain your title?
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So I really after my first two books came out,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: the Hunting Lives and My Summer Darlings, And when when
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: those came out, you know, I got lots of great reviews,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: and it was a Book of the Month pick and
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Amazon Editor's Pick and you know, option for film TV.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Great stuff, but there was a little bit of a
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: backlash against my southern kind of unhinged female characters.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: And I just don't like unhinged apply to women, because
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: have you ever noticed when a man raises his voice
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: and makes a point there being strong and assertive, when
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: a woman does it, she's hysterical. She's unhanched.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: I don't like that.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't either, whip.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Ask on anybody that says that. I'm sorry, I got hysterical.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, so hinged southern females. I don't like where
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: you're going. But coincident from where do you hail?
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: So?
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  Speaker 2: I'm from Longview, Texas, which is in deep East Texas,
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  Speaker 2: in the Piney Wood, about two hours east of Dallas,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: near Louis Beautifa. And yeah, it is gorgeous there, and
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: it's also like Eurie and heavily forested, and so yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I'm very too nancy oddly protective of my female character,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: and so I just decided it's kind of a tongue
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: in cheek title a likable woman, and I wanted to
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: play with Stadies character mainly because she's, you know, she's
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: an artist, and she's kind of a a little bit
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: of a rebel in her tupperware toting, you know, claustrophobic
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: suburban neighbor man.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with tupperware? Although you can get a lot
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: shapeer at dollar Tree. Everybody you're buying cheothpaste, tupperware, toilet
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  Speaker 1: paper anywhere, but a dollar Tree. You're crazy? But go
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  Speaker 1: ahead now, you're also floats.
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  Speaker 2: No, Now, I personally love tupperware, but I'm just trying
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: to paint a picture of just this very sort of
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: like a curtain twitching little neighborhood that she's in. And
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: you know, most of the women are housewives. Nothing against housewives,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: but they don't really understand her, and neither does her husband.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: So she's constantly chasing against these norms. Her story set
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: in the early nineties.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: And then Kira, you're talking about Sadie. Now, yes, I
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: just want to understand. The protagonist in this book is Kira.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Now do you call her Kira or Tyra?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Kira? Yeah?
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Uh. You know a funny thing about that. I read
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: the entire series of Harry Potter to the children when
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: they would still want to hear me read to them,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I mean all of them, and all the Chronicles of
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Narnia in quick succession. But we called Hermione, Hermione for
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the entire series. So I just want to hear in
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  Speaker 1: my hand you also call her Kira.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, I call her Kira because she's in my mind,
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  Speaker 2: she's based on Olivia Newton John's character and the Gonna
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Do That movie.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay, I can see that, Yeah, I don't know
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: where you are at where I got Jake Crime Stories
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Before the grandmother decides to give Kira
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: her mom's memoir, she was already getting threats about coming
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: back home.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, she was, yep. And that's the that's kind
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  Speaker 2: of the scary, suspenseful part. You know who is sending
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: her these creepy texts and who doesn't want her to
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: come back home and find out the truth.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: So it describes some of the texts for our listeners.
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  Speaker 2: Gosh, it's it's like she lands at the airport in Dallas.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: So Kira has been living in she fled the little
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: East Texas town Longview after her mom committed suicide, or
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: did she decades before, she's been living in Los Angeles
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: and so she's flying back for her friends or really
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: it's her frenemy's vow renewal party that set over a weekend,
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  Speaker 2: and so as soon as.
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  Speaker 1: She was from Longview to LA, that's quite a culture shock.
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  Speaker 1: We'll right in LA and I think I was the
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  Speaker 1: only one that was short and round. Everybody else was
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  Speaker 1: tall and skinny with these really big breasts.
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  Speaker 2: That's how I felt out there to Nancy, So I
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: came on back home for about a year and a half.
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  Speaker 2: I couldn't take it.
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  Speaker 1: And doing Dancing with the Stars did not help, because
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: all of those pros were perfect, and they were perfect
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: because they had surgery. They were just perfect. Okay. That said,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: So she goes from long View to la Okay, then
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: what happens?
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  Speaker 2: And then she gets sort of, you know, lured back
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: home against her better wishes and her better judgment. And
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: as soon as she lands in the Dallas airport, she
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: gets a text that says, you're making a very big mistake.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, Karen Starr and joining me a psychologists joining us
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  Speaker 1: at in Manhattan right there. Most people go, oh, okay, bye,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: okay bye, I'll just take my bag now. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: but think about it, Karen. Somebody has her cell number,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: somebody's threatening her, and they know she's touched down at
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the airport.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that the book would never go anywhere
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: if they did that. But I wanted to say, Nancy
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: that what I really like is that whole idea that
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: you brought up before, that this mother is insane. You know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: people think that she's off the wall because she just
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: is her own person and that this has happened with
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  Speaker 4: women so often. I love the way you capture that
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: that it was really she was just the creative, interesting person.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: But they make her out to be that there's something
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  Speaker 4: wrong because she's different, and being different is so hard
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  Speaker 4: for people to absorb and take in. They're threatened by it.
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  Speaker 3: Tell me, absolutely, mate, tell me why, well, tell our
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: listeners what is different about Sadie.
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  Speaker 2: I think mainly the fact that she has a vision
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: for herself that doesn't just include being a housewife and
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: a mother. She has this big dreamer. She had a
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: big dream to go to New York and to study art,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: and then her parents died in a car wreck, and
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: that dream sort of withered on the vine, and she
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: got married. But she's still nursing this artistic dream in
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  Speaker 2: her backyard and her art shed, and she makes these
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: very intricate fatigues, and she you know, she reads her
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: true stein and she's just sort of an out of
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: the box thinker. And then she also so she just
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: and and her husband is he's abusive, and so she
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: just is really you know, pushing boundaries, pushing buttons. She's
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: right before her death, she was supposed to have her
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  Speaker 2: first art show at the local you know, museum or whatever.
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  Speaker 2: And so is that the reason she got killed? You know,
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  Speaker 2: there's there's it's she's just like a dangerous woman in
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  Speaker 2: terms of coloring outside of her you know, life.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Call up on what you're saying before all lose the
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  Speaker 1: thought with me. In addition to May Cobb, who has
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: written this really incredible book, A Likable Woman, Karen started,
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  Speaker 1: there was so much packed into what make Cobb just said. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: so she's her parents die and there goes her financial
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  Speaker 1: possibilities for her dream of becoming an artist or studying art.
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  Speaker 1: She marries, the husband turns out to be abusive. Somehow,
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  Speaker 1: this woman, Sadie, manages to nurture that dream. And that
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: is the chord that really struck with me. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: regardless of her circumstances, she has found a way to
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  Speaker 1: keep that dream alive. And then just before her I
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: guess showing her exhibition, she's found dead. And one thing,
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  Speaker 1: this is not a good choice. Okay, very often we
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  Speaker 1: don't have a good choice. There's no good alternative in
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  Speaker 1: a lot of scenarios. But the daughter comes back, gets
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: this memoir written. She believes or is presented as written
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  Speaker 1: by her mother about her whole life. The daughter had
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  Speaker 1: no idea about what she was reading. And here are
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  Speaker 1: the two bad choices. Your mother was either murdered or
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  Speaker 1: your mother committed suicide. I don't like either choice, but
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  Speaker 1: I would rather my mom be murdered if I had
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  Speaker 1: to pick one of those horrible things, if I had
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  Speaker 1: to go through life without my mother, because I wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: want to believe that my mother chose to leave me.
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  Speaker 1: So you've got this amazing woman who's considered unhinged, nurturing
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  Speaker 1: a dream that is either murdered or commit suicide. Now
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  Speaker 1: it's not a very good choice, is at Karen start
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  Speaker 1: to want to pick I'd rather my mom be murdered
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  Speaker 1: than commit suicide.
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  Speaker 4: Well, if you think about it, Nancy, people who have
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  Speaker 4: a parent that committed suicide, just as you said, they
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  Speaker 4: really never get over the fact that not only did
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  Speaker 4: they lose their parent, but that their parents chose to
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  Speaker 4: leave them, And it becomes personal, like what did I do?
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  Speaker 4: Why wasn't I able to stop my mom from doing that?
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  Speaker 4: So it's on your shoulder. It's a burden for the
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  Speaker 4: rest of your life. So even though it's terrible that
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: somebody would be murdered. It's a lot better to think
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  Speaker 4: that they had no control over the circumstances than to
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  Speaker 4: believe that they chose to leave you.
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  Speaker 1: I can't imagine carrying that horrible burden around. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I know if my father could have he would have
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  Speaker 1: stayed with me till the very end, but he passed away.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know how I would cope with a thought
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  Speaker 1: that he chose to leave his children and wife. That's
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to figure out in this book, may
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: a lot. And then you've got Kia's sister. Didn't she
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: say something along the lines of the world is better
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  Speaker 1: off without her?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, And that's so just piggybacking on what y'all
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  Speaker 2: are saying. That was Kia's whole thrust of sort of
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: never believing the suicide line. She was like, there's no way,
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  Speaker 2: because she was so close to her mom, and she
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: was out there making art with her and learning from her,
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  Speaker 2: and they were besties and connected in a way that
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  Speaker 2: her mom wasn't to her sister. So she was like,
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  Speaker 2: no way, this woman, at the prime, you know, of
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: her life, when she's about to have the show, would
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: do this to me? Would do this to herself. But yeah,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: but the sister is a whole different story. She was
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: closer to the dad and was, I would say, ashamed
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  Speaker 2: of the mom. So yeah, it's probably just her being
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: a little you know, more free spirited. And maybe she
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: went dresses. Yeah, different dresses, different than the other women
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  Speaker 2: the belt school. She she likes to wear like sort
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  Speaker 2: of long flowing, you know, dresses. Sometimes she doesn't wear
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  Speaker 2: a bra.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, Dear Lord in Heaven.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Very bohemian.
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  Speaker 4: I just want to add to that that it's really
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: so true that when you're young, what you want is
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: the same as everyone. You want. You don't want to
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: stand out as being different. You want to belong. And
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: I think about myself and when I grew up and
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: I lived in the projects, and my mother was a violinist,
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: and she would go for violin lessons and I would
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: be really embarrassed because I wanted her to be like
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: all the other mothers. I didn't want her to be
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: carrying a violin case and doing something that was different.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Star, you've kept a secret from me. I didn't know
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  Speaker 1: you thought that about your mother.
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  Speaker 4: I did, and I remember it so clearly.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I know that you don't judge anybody, but I'm totally
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: judging you. That was wrong, young lady. I'm never get
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: to say that to my daughter Lucy because if I
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: don't like mess her it up. But now I can
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: say to you, that was so wrong, Karen Star.
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  Speaker 4: But that's that's what's so striking about it is you
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  Speaker 4: realize when you get to be older, how wrong that was.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: And here's somebody who understands that her mother is different
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: but accept it, where her sister can't deal with it.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: That's quite the dichotomy. May You've got one sister embarrassed
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: of the mother, and you've got Kia is trying to
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: find out what really happened to mother. Yeah.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really wanted to play with that sort of
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: you know, dysfunctional family dynamic, or that there's battle lines
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: drawn where the sister's more in line with the dad
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: and Kira's more in line with the mom, because I
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: think that happens in family sometimes.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And then then we find out the mom Sadie I
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: love that name, by the way, that you picked had
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: a sex affair. Yes, okay, the walls really are crashing
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: down now.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, she and that's part of her journey in becoming
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: like her own woman, is that she meets this man
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: who's just moved to town with his wife who's very.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Over there is she.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Sadie? So Sadie is having this affair with this man, Mike,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: who's just moved to town, and he's more like her.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: He's kindred spirit, he was like a professor in Dallas,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: and his wife is overbearing and he's also unhappy in
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: his marriage. So their relationship begins, and it's just beginning.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace Karen Stark psychologists joining us
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: in addition to the awesome Maycup, author of A Likable
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Woman on Amazon. Now, Karen, it's so easy to judge
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: people that have an affair. Yes, it's wrong. I know
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: it's wrong. And I don't even want to consider the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: fact that my husband, David could ever do that, because
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I think he's perfect. But a what do you do
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: when you find out and there's no way to talk
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to your mother about it because she's passed away about
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: your mother having an affair? And the other thing is
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes and I don't know, because I don't
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: plan on having an affair because that could cut into
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: my time with the twins. If my husband want to
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: get fifty percent custody. Plus I love David. Sometimes I
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: think people have affairs. You're the shrink, not me, Karen,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: not because they are in love with the other person
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: or because they want to hurt their spouse. It's something
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: in them. They're unhappy and they're seeking happiness or fulfillment
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: in any way they can find it, regardless of the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: damage it could do.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: Without a doubt, Nancy, that's a great assessment. And that's exactly.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what I just said. I would
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: be hard for us to repeat it.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: But no, but you're right. What you just said is
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: that they're unhappy, and sometimes that's the only way that
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: they could feel that they had any kind of connection
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: in this case, especially because this woman is so different
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: than everyone.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Else, and domestic abuse exactly, and this is not the answer,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and a fair or sex fair it is not the answer.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: In fact, I think that it's like a symptom of
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: something else wrong. But I'm just thinking about the mother.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know your book is about Kira and
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: her investigation and her fear, her very legitimate fear, and
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the threats on her about a mystery that's long been
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: put to bed many many years ago when the mom died.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: But there's just so much going on with her, and
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I feel that we can identify with so much of
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: what Kira is going through.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really wanted to, like have her spend a
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: lot of time reading those pages and trying to piece
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: it together. And she has to do it, you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: with this party going on, with these people who don't
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: really like her either or approve of her almost in
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: the way that her mother wasn't approved of. Like she's
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: the only single one there, you know, everyone else is
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: already married off, and she too, is an artist, even
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: though her life has been stunted by really survivor's guilt.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: So it's instrumental that she finds out, you know, what
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: happened to her mom so she can move on to
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: and live her full life. But yeah, so she is
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: you know, not only reacting to, you know, these secrets
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: that her mom held, but then also actively trying to
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: find out who killed her mom And why am I getting.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: If anybody killed her mom?
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, if anyone killed her mom, that's correct.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And she go ahead, she has to cope with
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: finding out that her mother had an affair, which no
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: matter how much you think that you know your parents
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: something like that is devastating. You have to make sense
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: of this.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Sorry, you're gonna love this. A friend of David's, this
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: is so funny. The mom and the dad and the
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: son and the daughter are at the breakfast table and
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: the son's sitting there eating cereal, and somehow it's somebody
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: mentions and the daughter is like, I don't know, thirteen fourteen,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: and it comes out that the mom had been married
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: before in her youth, like in college or something, and
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: got a fairly divorce. The daughter slams down her breast
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: and goes, mom, you didn't tell me, and storms out
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: of the room, goes to her room, slams the door,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: everything like shakes, and the son just keeps seeing cereal.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: We couldn't care less. And the mom says, did you
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: hear what I just said? I was married before I
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: met your father, and goes okay and just keeps seeing me.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You know some people, that's a true story, very differently
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: to finding things out about your mother.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: It's true. That's such a that's such a boy reaction.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Eh eh, I made it here, so I don't care.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: But you know, I know your your book, which I
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: love a Likable Woman by Maycup is about Kira. Going
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: home could be more iconic than going home and suspecting
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: that her mother did not commit suicide. I knows about Kira,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: but I am really fascinated with Sadie in all of
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: her flaws, like having the affair not just an affair,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: but an affair with a married man and she's married.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, like all the men in the world is
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: you have to pick one that's married. That her attempt
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to keep her artistic dream alive and in any way
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: she can in her world, in the confines her self
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: perceived confines of her world, trying to become an artist.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It just there's something very heartbreaking about Sadie.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. And I really appreciate that that resonated
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: with you. I'm so happy to hear it. Sadie is
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: a lot. She's inspired a lot by my own mother,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: who is an artist, but definitely had to, you know,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: do the mom thing and live in the small town
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: like she was. She came down.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Moms don't like it when you say the mom thing.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I'm a mom. Yeah, I'm a mom.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And do you have two guinea pigs? See, you don't
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: understand suffering. Okay, may you don't understand suffering until your
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: ninety two year old mother lives with you and you
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: have a cat, a dog, two guinea pigs, twins, and
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: a husband.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, now the guinea pigs would put me over that
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: they really do.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: So you were saying a mom who is very gifted artistically,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: as you say in your vulgar way, doing the moms in.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: My East Texas way.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: But I like the fact that she has flaws, she
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: has a deep flaws, but yet she's just such a beautiful,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: beautiful person.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. That's that goes back to the title,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: you know, a likable woman. I feel like women should
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: be allowed to be flawed, like you know men are
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: in fiction all the time, and not be judged for
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: it so harshly, or the author judged for it so harshly.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: So I really did want to play with that notion
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and have Sadie b full bodied be her own person. Yes,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: she's tragic, but like you said, she's driven to, you know,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: make her art against all the different, you know, constraints
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: in her life.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I've got so much to say because I know how
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the book ends, but I'm going to leave that to
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: all of you, guys. A Likable a Woman by May
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: cop It's intrigue, it's mystery, it's riveting. The characters are
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: very complex, sometimes likable and sometimes not very likable at all.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: But especially about Sadie, there's something really beautiful about her spirit.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: And then there's Kira, who will not stop, even risking
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: her own life to find out the truth. It's amazing.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: A Likable Woman on Amazon, well and everywhere now, May Cobb,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: I wish you the very best with your book and
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: all your endeavors.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Nancy, thank you so much for
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: having me back on It's just such an honor.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, thank you and Karen Stark. I told you
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: we needed a shrink, right. I may need further therapy
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: after a full read of this book. Okay, guys, thank you,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and please pick up A Likable Woman. It's awesome. Bye, guys,