Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (2/7)

Transcript

Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (2/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:42
  Hello and welcome back to a hamster with a blunt penknife
• 0:45
  the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
• 0:47
  My name is Toby, hey Dirk. And I've been invited here by
• 0:52
  the owner of said penknife and presumably said hamster.
• 0:57
  It's Joe Ford. Hello, Joe.
• 0:59
  Hello there. Yeah, I had a marvelous time
• 1:02
  watching episode 1 Yes, I we didn't really talk about Doctor
• 1:07
  Who and the solarium is the way with this thing.
• 1:12
  Yeah, it's just a just a jumping off point, is it to talk about
• 1:16
  the one? That's the beautiful thing is
• 1:18
  that I thought I'd eventually you know run out of things to
• 1:21
  say doing commentaries and podcasts and all sorts of other
• 1:25
  things. But it's there's so much because
• 1:27
  it I think because dr. Is such a personal thing.
• 1:30
  There's so much that you can, you could you could use a piece
• 1:34
  of visual stimulation or piece of music, or a scene, or a
• 1:37
  monster or whatever. Or as we have done with episode
• 1:40
  1, the book Which has nothing really to do with what we're
• 1:44
  watching in many ways. And it takes you off into sort
• 1:47
  of all sorts of different places.
• 1:48
  That's, that's the wonderful thing about Doctor Who, and I
• 1:52
  guess why it's sustains itself across so many different
• 1:57
  internet platforms. It always amuses me because I
• 2:01
  think we always think the world sort of revolves around us,
• 2:03
  don't we? But when, you know, when you
• 2:05
  look at what's trending on Twitter, like throughout the
• 2:08
  whole world at sometimes it could be like, Sergeant Ben.
• 2:12
  Tonight because I'm too fat to dominate the internet.
• 2:20
  I'll say my heart stops. Every time Tom Baker's trending.
• 2:24
  I had to I'd you know, I all right.
• 2:26
  Now I'm there quickly and you know this usually for some
• 2:30
  fabulous reason. Yes it's because yeah somebody's
• 2:34
  he said something or some of these other two clip or
• 2:36
  something God bless him. we are here for Doctor Who and the
• 2:41
  silurians episode to Toby, this is called Doctor Who and the
• 2:47
  silurians Yes, it is. That's and it is you there's no
• 2:54
  getting away from that because it's the it's the on-screen
• 2:57
  title and presumably it's a mistake but it is called Doctor
• 3:01
  Who in the silurians and there's the wonderful thing is that the
• 3:05
  word season seven every title is done slightly differently.
• 3:10
  So spearhead from space, it's the title comes out at you just
• 3:14
  a little bit. It starts more because little
• 3:16
  bit bigger doctor in the silurians, well, it's odd
• 3:19
  because It's called Doctor Who in the silurians ambassador's of
• 3:22
  death, we all know the ambassador's Kapow.
• 3:30
  Inferno is in front of the, you know, it the the words start off
• 3:35
  blurred and then then it forms the word in photo in front of
• 3:38
  stock footage of volcano. So so each season seven story
• 3:42
  has its own unique aspect to the story title and the most
• 3:47
  traditional presentation, this one Which is just the story.
• 3:51
  Title over the titles, adds the word Doctor, Who that's the
• 3:54
  words Doctor Who, which is, I mean, I I love the fact that the
• 3:59
  show has these little quirks that we can sort of debate and
• 4:02
  get to hear what it boils down to is it's it's sort of a kind
• 4:07
  of a cock-up but it throws out open a number of questions and
• 4:13
  it's quite a fun thing that it exists in that way.
• 4:15
  You know I mean it is one. That seems to sort of reoccur,
• 4:19
  isn't it? Doctor Who is required?
• 4:21
  Dr. Vaughn were Qui quick what it whoo-hoo.
• 4:25
  Indeed. Yes, it is.
• 4:28
  Yeah, he signs himself dr. W doesn't he and in the
• 4:33
  underwater Menace I mean it's a shame.
• 4:35
  This was one of the early books because I'm sure with the later
• 4:37
  books, didn't they? They stopped doing the Doctor
• 4:40
  Who and the cave monsters Doctor Who.
• 4:42
  And the Android evasion, it was then Doctor Who Dash, you know,
• 4:46
  for to Doomsday. It wasn't talked to and the, for
• 4:48
  to Doomsday. I would have loved it.
• 4:50
  If it had been Doctor, Who dashed Doctor Who, and the
• 4:52
  silurians, because which is what it really, what if it should
• 4:55
  have be cool or Doctor, Who, and the doctor, The silurians to
• 4:58
  give it its proper title, you realize attempt, of course I
• 5:04
  kind. I love the fact that those early
• 5:07
  target books, had different titles as well.
• 5:10
  I mean, I still sort of think of the moon base such as Doctor Who
• 5:13
  in the Cybermen, I think, Doctor, Who and the Doomsday
• 5:17
  weapon is a much better title than colony in space, why?
• 5:20
  It's a much better story I think as well.
• 5:23
  We're deed. And yes, a part of this will
• 5:26
  always be for me. Erhu and the cave monsters.
• 5:29
  You know, featuring featuring major Barker and you know, OCH
• 5:35
  OCH Del and mauka and Kato. The silurians not old, silurian
• 5:40
  young silurian silurian scientist, do you think Malcolm
• 5:44
  Hulk liked giving these stories another pass by being it being
• 5:48
  able to write the knuckles? Well, I wonder if he just
• 5:52
  figured they would. It was, there were better ways
• 5:55
  of telling it in prose, particularly his POV.
• 5:57
  Of that he does. And you know there's a lion in
• 6:02
  episode one. Isn't there about major bakeries
• 6:04
  as we slipped up a few years ago?
• 6:06
  Well, in the book you get the flashback, don't you doesn't?
• 6:09
  He he shoots an IR, a gunman or something or he shoots an
• 6:17
  unarmed man or something. And but I think the IRA are
• 6:22
  mentioned as well. Which I'm number one, I went
• 6:24
  back to it. Be thinking, well, that's a bit.
• 6:26
  I said I'm not sure. I want the eye.
• 6:27
  Ira, a doctor who to exist in the same universe.
• 6:30
  It seems like seems like a bit of a bit of a clash.
• 6:33
  There was felt was he felt as if sort of, by the know, maybe
• 6:38
  something that he was trying to say, was Lost in Translation
• 6:42
  because I felt like an angry book when I read it.
• 6:45
  It's very clever. I love that chapter about
• 6:48
  Captain Dent with his IMC flat terrifying, isn't it?
• 6:52
  It's superb. And I love his daughter bullet.
• 6:57
  Attempts. As I say, I didn't quite get
• 6:59
  them when I was younger and it was only when I came back to
• 7:01
  them. The, you know, of telling stuff
• 7:04
  from the different alien points of view, and of course, all the
• 7:06
  bits. You remember, from the Hulk
• 7:08
  books, trenchard safety catch Butler's Scar.
• 7:12
  And not, they're not so quite often when you watch a Hulk and
• 7:17
  let's not forget, this is the first solo Hulk story and he
• 7:21
  only writes solo stories. In the but we are.
• 7:26
  He is the sort of Pertwee writer in a way.
• 7:30
  And you know a lot of that that we think of as the I know buried
• 7:36
  it was very much an environmentalist.
• 7:38
  But but but Hulk was, you know, Hulk was very left-wing and I
• 7:45
  think he probably feels he can get away with that a bit more in
• 7:49
  the books maybe than in the in the TV versions.
• 7:54
  Or again, maybe it's those inner monologues, but he certainly
• 7:58
  going to do very interesting things which doesn't always
• 8:02
  happen in his TV stories, which do seem sometimes slightly.
• 8:07
  Slightly padded at times some of his six parties or slightly, you
• 8:12
  know, people talking in a room, but the conversations again,
• 8:15
  seem to be slightly more interesting in the, in the
• 8:17
  books, but that's maybe because we get the inner monologue.
• 8:20
  I don't know, you know, even even I think Miss Dawson and dr.
• 8:24
  Quinn. When you get slightly more
• 8:26
  insight into the book. Yeah.
• 8:28
  Yeah. I've quoted lying about, of
• 8:31
  course, I can't remember it. Now, is it When did I say she?
• 8:37
  She was always thinking when will I be the man that I'm going
• 8:42
  to marry? And when did she stop thinking
• 8:44
  that and think you know when the when the that opportunity, when
• 8:48
  did that slip by? That's so sad.
• 8:52
  Yeah desperately sad I always remember as well.
• 8:56
  I got to make an appointment ever for the first.
• 9:00
  Chapter of invasion of the dinosaurs or the dinosaur
• 9:03
  Invasion, sorry? That poor fella xuan xuan and I
• 9:09
  think that you get a chapter in the book of this when it's it's
• 9:12
  jock Tangy, the taxi driver that that Master.
• 9:17
  This gets a taxi because he has to get off the train.
• 9:20
  I'm not that happens in this in the story at all but you get
• 9:22
  this. You meet this Taxi Driver.
• 9:24
  You get is sort of, you know, it is little in a story and by the
• 9:27
  end he's dead. You have the there we Go Davis
• 9:33
  thing of finding a contemporary character and telling this sort
• 9:36
  of absurd situation through it, it makes it real.
• 9:41
  Yeah, it does. What should we do to them?
• 9:46
  Yes. Alright then we counting into
• 9:52
  it, you're going to do it. What do you drink?
• 9:54
  All you do it. Okay.
• 9:55
  Well we're going to start watching episode 2 of Doctor Who
• 10:00
  and the cave monster, sorry, Doctor Who and the salary hits.
• 10:04
  Three, two one. And I do like this title
• 10:10
  sequence. I'm a big fan of the early title
• 10:13
  sequences I do think when parallettes brought in the sting
• 10:21
  you know, this thing the Lays into the yes it is how is the
• 10:25
  savviest move? A, perhaps any producer ever
• 10:28
  made? Yeah, yeah.
• 10:31
  And it's a bit odd watching stories without it, isn't it now
• 10:34
  because it's so it's so much a part of it.
• 10:38
  The one that stands out his Spirit from space episode 1,
• 10:43
  when the soldier sort of shouts are, you know, who told you to
• 10:46
  Fire and then, and then the music's just sort of cut thin,
• 10:50
  and it's so jarring. What?
• 10:52
  It's not just that as that doesn't.
• 10:54
  He say it, isn't it? The only Doctor Who Cliffhanger
• 10:56
  cut off somebody big called trapped who told you to fire you
• 11:01
  stupid so the clip the music's coming to stop Can throw.
• 11:10
  Yeah. But of course, this was his
• 11:13
  first produce story that this is yeah.
• 11:19
  Yeah, he he tells a marvelous story in that autobiography
• 11:24
  about his budget that he got sort of the news of his budget
• 11:27
  through and he said, well, I can wear with this is very generous
• 11:32
  and then he realizes the decimal points in the wrong point.
• 11:40
  But look, I mean, this is a, this is a very nice cave.
• 11:42
  It's very nicely lit as well, because of course, it's very
• 11:46
  hard to light a cave properly because, you know, most caves
• 11:54
  lighting system system is, would be an amicable, to being able to
• 11:59
  see it in a drama. Do, you know, to mean, although
• 12:01
  I watched I watched a film called The Descent very
• 12:04
  recently, which it's about 20 years old now, but that's that's
• 12:09
  where I am in my modern viewing and I was shocked to discover
• 12:12
  that that was all in a set because it looked totally
• 12:15
  believable, it's beautifully done.
• 12:18
  But I think for, you know, 70s Doctor, Who I think the cave
• 12:23
  sets in this is a very good. I think Peter Davis has, doesn't
• 12:26
  he in the shortcomings? We like caves work in Doctor Who
• 12:30
  it's a dark sort of claustrophobic location that you
• 12:34
  can kind of do on the cheap. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:39
  And this is yes. There's a series of shocks.
• 12:42
  Got good caves. I suppose you could say.
• 12:45
  Mine is a good girl. I like I like that but we just
• 12:49
  sort of walks in with terrible. They're all sort of panicking
• 12:53
  about where he is. He comes Goodell oh my god of
• 12:56
  that is there goes my, you know, I was just thinking then you
• 13:00
  know, I'm having a good evening when I'm chatting away with
• 13:03
  Doctor Who fan about the best caves in Doctor Who stories.
• 13:10
  But the worst, I think that the worst example, this is, of
• 13:15
  course, when you have no budget left at all and you're having to
• 13:17
  see us. So everybody into caves, Yeah,
• 13:23
  yeah, that that's probably seemed like a great idea at the
• 13:27
  time and and it simply doesn't work.
• 13:31
  I feel so sorry. For the people making dok2 at
• 13:34
  around that time, you know, the 70s were were at the late 70s.
• 13:40
  Were tough, weren't they, whereas this, you know, this,
• 13:44
  this stuff here, partially the present day, Earth setting helps
• 13:47
  as well. But, you know, these, these look
• 13:49
  as good, if not better, you what?
• 13:51
  Other drama from Brandis time, you know, Doctor Who looks good.
• 13:55
  It can hold her, it can hold a candle to every to anything
• 13:58
  else, you know, supposedly more adult fare, like, do watch.
• 14:02
  Doesn't look any any more realistic than Doctor, Who you
• 14:05
  know? It's funny, you should bring up
• 14:07
  do much because I was just going to ask you a question.
• 14:10
  What's this, where they are at the same time?
• 14:15
  Yeah cuz yeah do much the same time.
• 14:19
  Period. Yes because Too much shares
• 14:24
  space ship models, doesn't it with ambassadors of death of
• 14:27
  call, the do watch episode re-entry forbidden it's it
• 14:30
  shares, it shares, some of them. Production, which I think is a
• 14:35
  very smart move. Well done everybody.
• 14:38
  And you know that's lots of men in the room yelling at each
• 14:41
  other. That's essentially what I quite
• 14:44
  like drama that's people in a room.
• 14:45
  You look at each other to be fine.
• 14:51
  Terroristic, still, so attentions of fraying, that'll
• 14:54
  do me, Tara's Tara's directional, particularly
• 14:58
  naughty mood tells that story about how the Doom watch
• 15:03
  production team, got a 0.72 cast your eye over the storylines,
• 15:07
  you know, just so we're not doing the same thing and he had
• 15:10
  a quick look and he went well I wouldn't touch any of them you
• 15:12
  know? Like that's fine.
• 15:13
  We're good, you know, let's see. Yes.
• 15:20
  Well, well, out, of course, this also having been, you know,
• 15:27
  exiled to Earth. There was the famous.
• 15:32
  I think with Malcolm whole closed, it famously said to
• 15:33
  Terrance dicks. Well, you've got two stories,
• 15:35
  you know, invasion of Earth and mad scientist.
• 15:38
  And this idea that actually, the enemy is the creatures who were
• 15:46
  here before mankind, is such a good idea and throws in with it,
• 15:53
  moral dilemmas and throws in with it ideas about, you know,
• 15:58
  who deserves what an identity identity and nationhood.
• 16:01
  And, and that's, I remember that very strongly in the book that
• 16:04
  major Barker when he gets captured, you know, he says, I
• 16:08
  died for England and Saint George.
• 16:09
  He's Hulk in the books as a real thing about patriotism, which
• 16:15
  comes out. Shouting in trenchard in the sea
• 16:18
  devils. In fact, Captain Hart says,
• 16:20
  doesn't he that Trend charts? You know, main characteristic is
• 16:23
  his patriotism and that's what the the master is able to
• 16:27
  exploit. That's and I love the way the
• 16:29
  silurians are shot in this episode because one of the
• 16:32
  things they don't do is show us the full creature until episode
• 16:36
  3. Which means that they're at the
• 16:38
  end of episode 3, which means there are lots of different ways
• 16:40
  of having them in Shadow and I think they worked really well.
• 16:43
  And Timothy Coombs I think shoot Them superbly on film and in the
• 16:48
  studio. But yeah, mount but Malcolm Hulk
• 16:50
  has this sort of thread about where he seems quite obsessed
• 16:54
  with the idea of what it means to be patriotic.
• 16:56
  And, and he thinks of it as quite a foolish thing I think,
• 17:00
  which is, which, but, but, but he's not unsympathetic to to his
• 17:07
  patriotic people. He makes it totally
• 17:10
  understandable from their point of view, but he makes it sort of
• 17:14
  sad and flawed. The characteristic and I think
• 17:16
  that's very interesting. I certainly wouldn't like that
• 17:20
  that moment in doctoring the see Devils the novel that moment
• 17:24
  where the safety catch is shifted.
• 17:28
  I don't think he's entirely unsympathetic one because it
• 17:31
  wouldn't add a moment. I thought that it doesn't redeem
• 17:35
  the character but it's you know it's spares him the humiliation.
• 17:41
  Yeah. And and he, and he has scenes
• 17:43
  from that character's point of view where he is, you know, sort
• 17:46
  of morning, doesn't it Maura mourn, the loss of Empire or
• 17:49
  the, you know, more one's the and, and he doesn't, he doesn't
• 17:55
  make it a sort of cruel, cruel, or bullish pattern.
• 18:01
  It is emits more a lost, man having something to Anchor
• 18:06
  himself with and that's quite, you know, that's quite
• 18:09
  sympathetic and that's quite You know, quite a sort of decent
• 18:15
  take on on what, you know what, what ends up being that
• 18:20
  characteristic characters? Fatal flaw, you know, the reason
• 18:24
  I've robbed Doom watch is because I've done a watch of it
• 18:28
  recently and I couldn't find a decent role for a woman anywhere
• 18:36
  in that main cast at all. And yet I think the depiction of
• 18:40
  Liz, sure. Sure, in this season is pretty
• 18:44
  groundbreaking. I don't know how we've gone this
• 18:47
  far without mentioning lesure. What indeed, I mean I think it's
• 18:53
  funny when I when I was growing up Liz was the sort of companion
• 18:57
  who fell through the cracks really.
• 19:00
  Because I think, you know, we knew that she'd been sort of let
• 19:03
  go after one season didn't even have a proper leaving scene and
• 19:06
  you know all the behind-the-scenes talk was well,
• 19:08
  you know, it didn't work. Having somebody as the doctors
• 19:11
  equal I and I'm I love Barry Letts and Terrance dicks and
• 19:16
  Have have respect for them both and I love, I love Joe Grant,
• 19:20
  but I think you could have made this work if you'd wanted to,
• 19:27
  you know, they did. They do it?
• 19:29
  You know, it's amazing. How often the Doctor Who
• 19:33
  companion is is devised to be a change from your usual Doctor,
• 19:37
  Who companion because Zoe is not a screamer really.
• 19:41
  We forget the bit in the mind rubber where she screams on the
• 19:45
  Tardis console because That's the sort of surreal mind fuck if
• 19:49
  you like but but Zoe is not a particularly screamy companion,
• 19:55
  and she offered and uses her intelligence and she offered
• 19:58
  patronizes. The doctor and, and, and then,
• 20:02
  you know, straight up after Zoe. You've got Liz, who is the
• 20:05
  Cambridge educated touch her? She's a doctor.
• 20:08
  It's the two doctors. And and Caroline.
• 20:13
  John totally convinces. She goes off and does stuff on
• 20:16
  her own and can have conversations with the doctor
• 20:20
  has an equal. And yeah, I love Liz.
• 20:24
  I think she's great. Do you think she Zoe could have
• 20:28
  stepped from a 6 to 7? Obviously she like, she had a
• 20:31
  scientific brain because it was there was no she wasn't there.
• 20:35
  One point that when he probably could possibly stay on.
• 20:40
  Oh well, I want to have that would have worked out because I
• 20:43
  think they chose to leave in the end, didn't they?
• 20:46
  But you, you don't know whether If they to do what we are,
• 20:51
  actually not going to leave whether I think it kind of needs
• 20:55
  the Clean Sweep for the Exile story to work.
• 20:58
  Really what sucks all the doctor to 20th century Earth?
• 21:02
  What heuristic says about the companion o about Caroline?
• 21:06
  John is you know she needs a good meaty role, you know I
• 21:08
  think it's held in the Baskervilles 10, they gave her a
• 21:11
  like a good acting really one of the classic cereals but then
• 21:16
  that rather suggests that the companion can't be a good meaty.
• 21:20
  You roll and I think she is given that in this season.
• 21:25
  Yeah, yeah. I you know I can see where
• 21:30
  they're coming from. I think they probably wanted to
• 21:32
  make their job a lot easier which, you know, in there are
• 21:34
  certain certain if the companions doing different
• 21:37
  things, from what the doctor is doing.
• 21:39
  That means you can get two different standard strands of
• 21:42
  your story, going at the same time, if what the companion than
• 21:45
  the doctor can do is interchangeable.
• 21:46
  That is slightly harder and having somebody like Joe, who is
• 21:51
  Joe is stupid, but she is a bit of a klutz and She, she does she
• 21:57
  doesn't have the intellectual knowledge and the scientific
• 22:01
  knowledge that Liz has, although she is an escapologist and could
• 22:05
  do that in a way. We forget that about Joe
• 22:07
  sometimes that actually she supposed to be sort of, she
• 22:10
  supposed to be a bit James bondy, although, she's not
• 22:13
  remotely, but but I like, you know, you can see the logic of
• 22:18
  it, you can see why. And again, a lot of what happens
• 22:22
  with Doctor Who is a matter of expediency or Trying to do the
• 22:25
  thing. Writing Doctor, Who is heart
• 22:28
  establishing a new set of characters for each new story
• 22:30
  ass at establishing a new world. If you like even if it's still
• 22:34
  in 20th century Earth you're still establishing a new world
• 22:37
  because it's a new base. It's a new set of people or it's
• 22:41
  a new style of story because each story has its own sort of
• 22:45
  atmosphere and rules really that, you know, the demons has
• 22:49
  different rules from colony and space even though they're in the
• 22:52
  same season, the rules of the storytelling.
• 22:55
  God are different. The atmosphere is different.
• 22:58
  So you have to establish. All of those things you want
• 23:01
  your basic ingredients to kind of write themselves, really.
• 23:05
  Because otherwise, you've got another thing that you having to
• 23:08
  take care of. Because I think one of the
• 23:14
  things that's underestimated about Doctor Who is, how hard it
• 23:18
  is to do it well, and how lucky we are that, it's invariably
• 23:23
  done, well, because it's really hard to write a science fiction
• 23:29
  story. From scratch, you know with the
• 23:33
  same core characters and and shake that up every four to six
• 23:39
  weeks. I think to establish a whole new
• 23:41
  set of Eric's award who said like you know he kept getting in
• 23:45
  writers and they just couldn't do it.
• 23:47
  Like respected writer, you know, PJ haven't for goodness sakes,
• 23:51
  you know. Yes, I was having this
• 23:55
  conversation with somebody the other day when they were talking
• 23:58
  about, you know who who should you get in to?
• 24:01
  Who Would you like them to get into right for Doctor Who and
• 24:03
  you go well oh you'd think somebody, you know, I remember
• 24:07
  be so excited when Stephen Fry, and Paul Abbott and Simon died,
• 24:11
  his scripted that get made Richard.
• 24:14
  Curtis his script did get made. But I believe that, you know,
• 24:17
  there was probably quite a lot of rewriting weather and uses
• 24:20
  that these these These are unquestionably amazing writers.
• 24:24
  But I think actually, who you want is that person?
• 24:27
  That's a brilliant, Stephen Fry's didn't work, Paul Abbott's
• 24:30
  didn't work. I think you want that person
• 24:33
  from casualty, that's that knows the nuts and bolts of getting a
• 24:37
  practical television script on, but is bored of writing or why
• 24:42
  get some Cowboy to mend, the roof.
• 24:43
  When I could do it myself, you've never loved me.
• 24:45
  Anyway, dad. And then thoughts off the roof.
• 24:49
  I then learned, I do actually love you.
• 24:52
  I just didn't know how to express it.
• 24:54
  But now, I can that you've got a roof tile impaled up, the
• 24:56
  jacksie it has to be removed by their head, but but but
• 25:01
  something Have You Been watched every episode of casualties, but
• 25:10
  I think you want somebody who can do the nuts and bolts of
• 25:12
  television, and then sort of break out and going.
• 25:15
  Now, I can use, I can, I can use all of that experience, and
• 25:19
  practical savviness, and have fun with the jokes that I can.
• 25:24
  And ooh, fun with the scarce that I could do and, and
• 25:29
  introduce aliens of things that I can make up the rules for, and
• 25:33
  that's why I think Robert Holmes is for me, the best classic
• 25:35
  series who writer, because he's a great nuts and bolts writer,
• 25:40
  but who speaks the language of Doctor, Who the humor, and the
• 25:44
  horror and interest by understand both so so.
• 25:47
  Well, it's fun. So I think, I think, sometimes
• 25:50
  you can look too hard. So I went straight to Terrance
• 25:54
  dicks. When you said that, because you
• 25:55
  were saying, lies, straight off a soap, he's Rugged Cross Rose.
• 25:57
  Suddenly he definitely understood the nuts and bolts of
• 26:00
  telling us, good story. He could do the scares, you
• 26:03
  could do the humor and he could do it at PACE as well.
• 26:07
  There's no easy to forget what a lick.
• 26:10
  These were going out, being made out and broadcast, absolutely.
• 26:15
  Now this actor here Gordon Richardson, he was one of your
• 26:19
  lot, Joe. He was a friend of Quentin
• 26:20
  crisp. Oh, was it?
• 26:22
  And yes was quite a famous famously Camp.
• 26:25
  Entertainer was Gordon Richardson, who would have great
• 26:28
  big parties at his house so we didn't make it work, you know.
• 26:37
  But oh it does it didn't last long in this and that's Nancy
• 26:41
  Jackson who was burned acceptance wife.
• 26:44
  So there we go. It's not often you get this.
• 26:47
  Oh and let's not forget the do, oh my word look who's here.
• 26:55
  Love it. Absolutely love it.
• 26:57
  I think he's great in this as well.
• 27:00
  I mean, every time I think of pulled Arrow, it's not Blake's
• 27:02
  7. I think I'm I don't think of
• 27:03
  save your breath for the time latch doctor.
• 27:08
  There's somebody has put up a clip.
• 27:10
  There is a clip that keeps me retweeted of him on Twitter and
• 27:13
  is it is it include 0 or whodunit or something?
• 27:16
  Where it comes on? A goes, my wife has been
• 27:18
  murdered and it's it's I mean, it's Darrow to the max it's
• 27:25
  Darrow turned up to 11 and its glorious.
• 27:29
  But then they were asking, right?
• 27:32
  Can now the people film this and put it underneath, and I watched
• 27:36
  pretty much everyone. Well, nobody could best Darrow.
• 27:40
  I was in terms of pure ham, he had it I love it.
• 27:47
  I love it. I but the sad thing is because
• 27:51
  he enjoys that kind of acting, it's easy to then go.
• 27:55
  Oh he was like that all the time but there are some points in
• 27:58
  Blake's 7 where he does nothing. And there's so much going on
• 28:05
  underneath. And and I remember when I was
• 28:08
  chatting to Clive, marrinson he described himself.
• 28:11
  He said I've always been quite Vivid and I love that
• 28:14
  description of an actor being Of it, but that doesn't.
• 28:18
  But, but I like to watch performances, that that that I
• 28:24
  have, I have vivid Vivid T v-- deity, and that, and, and have a
• 28:28
  lot of color, but I don't, I don't necessarily think that,
• 28:33
  that always means unbelievable in the same way, that
• 28:35
  Shakespearean acting is quite Vivid, but it's dealing with
• 28:39
  great metaphysical properties and it's dealing with more than
• 28:43
  being. I woke up this morning and I was
• 28:44
  a bit sad. It's, I I woke up this morning
• 28:47
  and the very core of my soul has been rent asunder by cruel fate
• 28:51
  and that requires a bit more vividness Vivid.
• 28:55
  Yeah. Vividness that's easier to say,
• 28:58
  but it doesn't mean it's not true, just because it's big.
• 29:00
  It doesn't mean there's no truth to it.
• 29:02
  And so I quite like those sort of larger performances because
• 29:06
  so, long as that the emotion behind it is truthful.
• 29:11
  You can or Or it's an actor, having a lot of fun and being
• 29:16
  entertaining, your after, to two very different things, but I
• 29:20
  think sometimes Darrow in Blake's 7 is is so brilliant and
• 29:24
  inscrutable but he because he catches it.
• 29:27
  So large mentally, you know, there's you get real meat from
• 29:31
  it, I love it sometimes. A contrast is what makes it work
• 29:35
  as well because one of my favorite episodes of Blake's 7
• 29:38
  is all beer and you've got Darrow there with jobs Sabaton
• 29:42
  and they're camping it. To the High Heavens somewhere in
• 29:46
  the rafters, but then later in the episode, you've got him
• 29:49
  hunting Villa through the shuttle and it is absolutely
• 29:55
  terrifying. I remember it from when it was
• 30:02
  first broadcast, I remember it from my youth.
• 30:04
  Yeah, and it was and does he say we need to get rid of another 70
• 30:09
  kilos or something. And all right away, 7 Bill away
• 30:13
  solution. But I remember the camera
• 30:19
  personal name and I've asked, I know, we're not going here.
• 30:23
  Surely not with the regulars. I've great stuff.
• 30:27
  Yeah, what is it? Quickly talk about Tim coup
• 30:34
  because he wasn't around for long.
• 30:36
  I think he directed to Smashing stories, but in its side alone,
• 30:41
  we've had a couple of unusual choices rather brilliant POV
• 30:45
  shot of the silurians go and I think a lot of that beforehand
• 30:53
  or not, that I can recall not really though.
• 30:54
  We've had we've had shots. Dalek, I stalk as early as the
• 30:59
  first, Dalek story, but but but not that many but know that,
• 31:04
  that that's somebody who knows about science said to me.
• 31:08
  Yeah but that's not how they see and I was like you can know too
• 31:12
  much. Sometimes I think it's fine.
• 31:14
  It has a sense of sort of immediacy and drama about it.
• 31:17
  You know, they are seen through the eyes of the Wounded style
• 31:20
  earring but then we just had a sequence there.
• 31:22
  A second ago, where is it's quite as far. um, yeah.
• 31:28
  And and there's a fade into the morning and then a sort of
• 31:33
  establishment of the fact that I've ever did, we ever really
• 31:36
  have much of that. I have are.
• 31:37
  So he's doing unusual things. He is and I love all of this
• 31:42
  stuff on film. And I do, I just love having a
• 31:44
  doctor who story set in in front of a load of bales of hay.
• 31:47
  I don't know. It just feels sort of fresh and
• 31:49
  real and interesting. And yet that morning, and they
• 31:52
  even have the music sort of has the, it's sort of, the, quite
• 31:55
  bird. Like, the music, isn't it?
• 31:57
  It's like we are all up with the Lark gonna think, but, and we
• 32:00
  still haven't seen the silurian and we were talking when the
• 32:03
  silurian emerged from the cave and the sun, there was a sudden,
• 32:05
  you know, the sun blocked out the picture, and you just got
• 32:08
  the silhouette and that's all Tastic film camera work at all
• 32:13
  of this stuff off of this. This would not be so good if it
• 32:16
  was in a electronic Studio, but it's beautiful here.
• 32:20
  And of course, we've just seen, we know what a black person that
• 32:23
  was seen, from this point of view, and Claude, was that it
• 32:25
  got killed. So that's that's a cracking
• 32:29
  cracking Cliffhanger. I mean, I think it works better
• 32:33
  for being on Phil as we move on, we have, you know, Cliffhangers
• 32:37
  where companions are being menaced like, let's say LOL wall
• 32:40
  in Warrior. As gay as the thorough hand
• 32:42
  comes towards her list. Sure was just mauled by that
• 32:45
  crazy. Like he tossed her head.
• 32:48
  Scratched her face. Yeah, he did.
• 32:53
  And from that, gorgeous point of view.
• 32:55
  Now again you presume the point of view is partially come
• 32:58
  because he's going. Well, I've got seven episodes.
• 33:00
  I'm going to hold my monster back as long as possible, but
• 33:03
  it, but it means he gets, you know, very inventive and
• 33:06
  creative with it. And and it looks, he's he is
• 33:10
  very good, Tim kumis, he's an excellent director, and I feel
• 33:15
  sad that because he overspent on The mind of evil, he was not
• 33:21
  allowed to return, and I know he felt very sad about that as
• 33:24
  well, because I think he is a, he would be, he would be far
• 33:30
  better remembered as a director. I think if he'd done more than
• 33:34
  the two stories because, you know, everyone, well, I think
• 33:36
  anyone with any sense, loves Michael Ferguson and he only did
• 33:39
  four stories. And I think Michael is rightly
• 33:43
  seen as one of the, the A-list Doctor Who directors.
• 33:46
  And I think, I think I'd have liked to have seen Do you know
• 33:51
  if I can imagine if timid done some of some of those latest
• 33:55
  stories we might be thinking the same about him as well.
• 33:58
  I think he's afraid of the scale of either of the two stories
• 34:03
  that he's telling and you know, there's a lot happening in The
• 34:06
  Silo Rochelle we head into, you know, plague city later on in
• 34:10
  the street and then in the mind of evil, you know, we're gonna
• 34:14
  scale the walls of a prison in its Amy, I fire him.
• 34:19
  He's it's big stuff is Big ambitious staff.
• 34:23
  He's good at the hardware. He's good at making it look
• 34:26
  like, you know, like I feel like, you know, a tough action
• 34:31
  adventure and it's fine to do that because you've got you've
• 34:34
  got you know the jokes and but we being a Dandy and that that
• 34:38
  all helps to dilute it and make it a bit more dr.
• 34:41
  Hui although you know I do I have some sympathy with Terrance
• 34:44
  dicks who says that season seven isn't Doctor Who because it
• 34:47
  doesn't have quite enough. Of the Fantastical within it
• 34:52
  feels it's a bit too close to quatermass and I have some
• 34:56
  sympathy with that but I I do for me season 7 is my is
• 35:02
  probably my favorite chunk of Pertwee.
• 35:06
  There is a intriguing coupling made in the spit Heaven space
• 35:11
  Coventry with terrorists dicks. And Derek Sherwin where Terrance
• 35:16
  dicks finally gets to take. Derek showing to talk.
• 35:19
  Ask for one strand, them on Earth and 42 lumbering in with
• 35:23
  seven Partners, this they have. You heard that one?
• 35:27
  I dunno. What I that was one.
• 35:30
  I stopped listening to another. I don't think I've ever picked
• 35:35
  back up on because I know they took to have Derek Martinez on
• 35:39
  that and it didn't work out. Sadly, Derek Martinez was not
• 35:44
  was not well, which is a, which is a real shame, but I know
• 35:50
  there was no love lost between in, you know, the I'm sure they
• 35:54
  were very professional there but I know that the Terrence Was not
• 35:57
  a great fan of Derek showing, for sure.
• 36:01
  I think they had, you know, I think the the working methods
• 36:05
  were slightly different. Shall we say, possibly what
• 36:10
  happened with we've Derrick show when being given another
• 36:13
  assignment of berry Lads coming in.
• 36:14
  Maybe that was best all-round. Oh, I think so.
• 36:19
  And of course it creates the magic Partnership of Terrance
• 36:23
  dicks and Barry Letts which one of the great Doctor Who double
• 36:26
  acts you know. And and I love the fact that,
• 36:31
  you know, they remained friends and, you know, I can't think of
• 36:34
  one without the other really adore and I adore them both, you
• 36:40
  know, marvelous marvelous Venice.