Latest / The Backdrop Podcast / Episode 1 - Dr. Ray Tinston, Managing Director Middle East, Identity

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Episode 1 - Dr. Ray Tinston, Managing Director Middle East, Identity · The Backdrop Podcast

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the backdrop.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Today's chat is a particular pleasure for me.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: This episode featuring an old friend.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: We get to sit and have a coffee and chat about the industry and about what's going on with him.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there's always something going on with him.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've worked in events, at some point you've crossed paths with Dr.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Tinston.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, Dr.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Tinston, if you're not aware, is managing director of Identity Middle East, which is the regional arm of global brand experience agency identity, leading strategy and delivery across major government and private sector projects throughout the Gulf and the wider MENA region.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: With more than two decades of expertise spanning events, tourism, and destination marketing, Ray has directed transformative programs across the UK, Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's extensively worked throughout Saudi Arabia and UAE, working with some of the region's most ambitious clients on initiatives that are of genuine national significance.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's a founder, senior commercial leader, and doctoral graduate, specializing in artificial intelligence and behavioral science in tourism, tourism marketing, to be specific.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Ray is a regular conference speaker, guest lecturer, an international industry awards judge, and one of the most prominent voices in the ongoing evolution of events and tourism across the MENA region.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real pleasure to have with us today Dr.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Tinston.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Dr.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ray.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to be here with friends.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm I'm really, really happy to have you.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to kind of get a feel for or an idea of that path that you've taken from your career beginning to now leading identity into a whole new horizon.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: What still holds on?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: What still holds true from all the lessons you've learned?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you still implement into your day-to-day from all of that?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think the thing that I keep coming back to, uh, no matter what I do, whether it's launching a venue or destination planning or tourism planning or events or whatever I do in my career, uh, I was very fortunate.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I started my career with Montgomery Exhibitions, which is the oldest um exhibition organizer in the UK, and I think one of the oldest in the world.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I had a really, really good grounding in project management.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I was learning all of the verticals of running an event properly.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think those disciplines have really, really stood the test of time.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was really fortunate to have Sandy Angus, and uh I'd encourage your listeners to go and do some research on Sandy Angus and who he is.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he's a great man.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was lucky enough to have somebody like him as my mentor from a very early age.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um we used to race each other into London in the mornings for the best parking spot in the meuse at the back of the office.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if anybody's ever lived or worked in London, you'll know the value of getting up really early to get to London for a parking space.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um so yeah, so I guess it's it's twofold.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: What one is get up early, um, plan your day out well, um, and just get your head down.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's something that's subtle, but that you learn over time, uh, and that's instinct.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's not in instinct forged out of learnings, it's instinct for forged out of experiences.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and learning to trust that instinct is really, really important, no matter what you do.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: When you need to see behind those walls, when you're when you're two weeks out and you are under the gun to deliver something really solid that identity is known for, what's happening day to day?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what what is the where are the final checks and and what's on your mind during that time and what's on your team's mind, and where are you sorry, seeing the path uh leading to?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um I had um another really good mentor, uh, it's a man called Dan Londero, he was chief sales officer for Reed Exhibitions.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and this is this is an old adage in our industry, but um you you have two ears and one mouth, and by that ratio, you should learn where to listen and where to speak.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think if you if you're very good at listening in the beginning, and that that counts for everything.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that's your client perspective, it's your team's perspective.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've had unbelievable operations managers in my career as well, who effectively are the bosses of running, especially trade shows.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're the first people you go to, you set your sales strategy with them, and so on.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that it's listening closely in the beginning helps you to start to see around corners because you start to see where the dangers lie, because you set out your store from the beginning.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what the milestones are, you know what KPIs are, you know what the SLAs are, and you know when they're meant to happen.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's the easiest way to look into the future.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think people who um fall in love with their own ideas um without putting any measurements in place are the people that generally struggle in our industry.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I I think if you're responsible for leading a team, a business, uh, a project, um, the most important thing is to plan.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then remember what you planned as well and stick to it.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because there's always the instinct when things go wrong to sidestep and take shortcuts.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Shortcuts will always fail in our industry because we we we're creating built environments and built environments that if you speak to any architect, there are no shortcuts.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can't miss out a floor or a flight of stairs or a lift shaft and so on.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's no different with us.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're creating built environments.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Health and safety is important, people are important, people, experience is important.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it comes back to some very simple things listen more, talk less.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're someone's mentor, and those people under you uh that work with you are obviously they're your partners in this event, and they work alongside you to make it a success.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: What's the DNA of those people?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you consider to be sort of the the primary DNA of those that work for you?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: What do you look for to have someone work alongside you to make sure that the experience level is at the at the fullest?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's two things I look for in people.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: One is a sense of humor, uh, and the other is inner strength.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um inner strength is what you need in this industry to carry you through anything.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: The challenge is, you know, you can't walk around with an umbrella waiting for it to rain.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like it's risk as part of our industry.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to be really, really careful um how you think about things.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I guess that the people with inner strength will always slow things down and look at it in isolation.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think some of the best mentors in my life, I'm a I'm a father, I've got four kids.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I learned from my kids early on as well.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they they've been mentors to me as well, um, because they have a very simple way of looking at life.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: They break it down to what they want or what they need.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, clients are no different.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: People are ever we grow up, we have all these accoutrements in our lives.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, we've we're quite simple in terms of what we want.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: We have an idea, we have a vision, we have a need.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and if if you can't fulfill people's needs, it's because you've not listened to or understood what their intention is.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think very, very good, highly experienced people generally have the ability to assess what the challenge is in the moment, and then they have the skills to be able to resolve those quite quickly.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So the people that I have around me, the people that I trust the most, I let them get on with their jobs.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I never interfere, I don't micromanage.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I, you know, we all challenge each other because that's that's natural and it's right, as we as we all should.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm a great believer.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: You lead from the front and you provide as much support as you can to your team and lift them up and give them the tools that they need to do their jobs.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need a lot of people to do that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: You just need the right people.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you see things going now with the events industry, not just regionally, not just UAE, but internationally?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: What changes do you think will happen?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe from a mindset perspective, uh from could be from a technical perspective, from an operational perspective, uh, from a positioning perspective?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: What do you see?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think if we if we boil it down to the GCC, um, I think events are going to go back to their nuts and bolts of why we do events in the first place.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the primary driver for events in this region is for development or FDI.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we bring revenue into the market?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do we bring people into the market?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do we restructure and device actually got, for me, it's got one of the most finished, complete, structured formulas I've ever seen anywhere in the world.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's it's experts.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it has to make events work.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, society, everything is built on events.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: We, whether it's a trade show, an activation, a launch, etc.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the one thing that is true before I get into the broader strategy of why we do these events is that people need people.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can you can do AI overlays, you can do whatever you like, you can disenfranchise people from from one another, and you know, you can isolate people inside communications via um social media or whatever, but at the end of the day, people don't just need people, people buy from people.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so Dubai knows that, you know, better than probably anywhere else in the world.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: You then need partners.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you you you're a hundred but we the more friends you have, the better.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we need each other.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: What happens if the under C cables are cut or whatever?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, all of all of the external risks that we can't manage can be easily, much more easily managed just by sitting in front of one another.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm uh I'm I'm one of the biggest believers in the power of events for what it can do to transform lives, whether it's the work I do in charity with skateboarding, um, it could be a conference, a congress, uh trade show, and experien experience, an activation.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It matters not because at the end of the day, we all come together for those experiences because we need one another.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: We need to, we need to see what the world looks like around us.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: We need fresh context.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some of the best ideas come from gatherings, you know, people coming together.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Events are also a marketing tool.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a communications tool.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: It helps to, it's possession, positioning, messaging.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all comes from all comes from that that stage and the people that are in front of that stage meeting each other and having discussions and meaningful discussions.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the what we're experiencing at the moment is um global connectivity.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so what what this region, not just Dubai, but the whole region has done exceptionally well, is that they've created touch points.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think of Emirates or any of the airlines in this in this region, they've created hub destinations globally, and where they have hub destinations, they've been able to build their brand in those destinations.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whether it's uh a Saudi seasons or uh a sponsorship of a stadium or whatever, it doesn't really matter.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like everybody we we are all, all of us, um uh, including us sitting here, are part of that brand.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're driving that brand, we've built this destination collectively.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is not, you know, I love what the government's just said, you know, like you drive into Abu Dhabi and there's these billboards, and it says we are all Emirati.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely true, you know, and it's never been more true than now.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there are layers within that, of course, we all understand that.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, I'm extremely proud of what we've been able to achieve here more than anywhere else in the world.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so whenever I travel, and I travel a lot, um, around the world, there's there's an underlying admiration and envy by anybody in our industry globally for what we've been able to achieve here.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we're not we're not fettered by anything, we're not chained to anything.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: We, you know, as long as as long as you can resilient.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're resilient, as long as you can present an idea that's that's logical and affordable um and measurable, it can go through, you know.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and at the end of the day, what you've got to remember is that we always need to be respectful of where we are.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the um the the the local people are our hosts, um, they welcomed us into this country.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: This has become our home.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's wonderful.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the we are emirati, we're all emirati resonates even more with people that have been here for a long time.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so on on I I guess this is sort of the last question that I wanted to ask you, and I think it probably could go into something quite expansive because I want to know about Dr.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Tinston.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, I think the last time we met, you weren't doctors, so we know I have to get used to Dr.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Tinston.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, congratulations, Dr.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Tinston.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to find out what is on the horizon and not just identity.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know what is I mean, you've got a lot going on, and that's I mean, that's really downplaying it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so what is it that that that you see for Dr.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Tinston in in the next few years to come, even in the next year?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think the next year is probably other people's few years.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think for for for me, I become I become um an active observer um of life, the universe, and everything.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is I have enough experience um and skills now to identify opportunities, especially in moments like this.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we uh I mean I'm not going to labor it, but we are going through challenging market conditions, which is somewhat like COVID but not, um because the world still moves around us.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm seeing opportunities that other people are not.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I have um an annoyingly positive view of the world.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm a great believer in successful outcomes for all of us.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I believe that there's there's some incredible things out there.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so my mission um is to is to help give people the shortcuts that they need to see what I see.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm lucky, you know.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've over my career I've been able to build up a lot of trust with some really powerful people.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an influencer rather than a decision maker, but I don't mean an influencer as an Instagram because I've got a face for radio, but um But the the the important the important thing for me is that we is that we help people get to the places that they need to be a lot quicker.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the wealth is sped up, AI is is creating some of those challenges.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think and I believe that there are opportunities for all of us to really grow.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll give you an example.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um if we take skateboarding, which is my my current passion, um, who knew it would come back around in my life?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um we've now organized world championships, Olympic qualifiers, and so on.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, fortunately, we had a benevolent sponsor, which helped.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but now we're moving into a much more structured pattern with skateboarding globally.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh it's an it's I guess a low barrier to entry Olympic sport.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not all of them are like that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: So anybody could be a skateboarder.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's got, you know, you don't have to measure your FEMA or your tibia or anything else to work out whether you're any good at the sport.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because part of skateboarding is courage, um, and that's part of why I love it.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's a real community and so on.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Skateboarding as an industry globally is worth billions of dollars.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely gigantic, it has an outsized reach.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the thing I like about it is actually if you start to unpack what that is and look at what we know about policy and so on within society and how to help it to shape policy.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, skateboarding is an urban mobility solution.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of content around urban mobility.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can use skateboarding to drive that brands are using it.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, whether that's premium brands like LVMH and they're stable of brands, car brands are using it, real estate developers are using it as a way to galvanize support because it's cool and it's fun and it's community and everybody knows that, but it it actually addresses a really hard to target portion of the market, and that's the teenagers.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so nobody, every brand in the world would love to have that.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a big portion of the market, nobody can really identify it.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: But teenagers are on a journey and they're transitioning into young adults, going to university and so on.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very short step between that and people who will eventually be making policy in 10, 15 years' time.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you've gone on that journey with them.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you start out on a very broad community base, like all sports.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's why sports, sports is so important and so powerful.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is that you can is that that's why politicians love it so much, is because you know, what's better than being a politician and you don't have to kiss babies, but you can be popular because of sport, you know?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's something about skateboarding, and I can't speak to the corporate side of things or or the organizational or institutional side of this of skateboarding.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll never I'll never forget when I was a kid, and I'm old, when I had my plastic skateboard.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: But it's that first before you before you can drive or even before you can ride a bike, it's that first feeling of freedom, you know, where you get on it and you can actually move and you can move as fast as you want it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it just it's exhilarating, you know.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I'm glad that that's never uh ever lost its appeal and now it's as big as ever.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's getting bigger as well.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like the the business of skateboarding.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: For me, the thing that's exciting for me, we I won't get into the mechanics of it because that's a whole podcast on its own, but it's the accessibility of the people in power, uh, is amazing.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and their willingness to to engage is incredible.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's refreshing.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's refreshing, but these people are politicians in the in the in the truest sense of the word.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: They are they're politicians in Italy or Switzerland or wherever.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And for them, this is this is a completely new universe for them.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's giving them a new base for their popularity, but it's also giving them the ability to actually affect change.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and and that's really what events is all about is the ability to affect change in a way that's positive for the planets and good for the people around us.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to anything, your identity, you have uh other stuff that's uh that's in the in the in the planning that you can discuss?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think safely um I can say that we we've made a number of acquisitions recently across the world in pharmaceutical, I guess, development uh and operations, so site development and operations with EPG, for example.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've come together as a business with Smile, Identity Acquired SMILE, which is a cluster of agencies.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we've now become one under one identity, one brand.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we continue to grow, you know.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, I think I think we all know this.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you sit down with meetings with clients, the more services you can provide.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a travel business, for example, so we can move people around, we can move delegates around, uh, we can move exhibitors around.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we we we've effectively we've created end-to-end solutions.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have a gaming business, we have us identity sports.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we have a lot of options.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we know what we're good at.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we are experts at government events, um, we're experts at brand engagement, you know.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: The brands that we have in the UK are generating hundreds of activations and experiences every year.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really proud to lead a business in this region that gives me the opportunity to truly innovate um and to find real solutions for clients.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's uh it's a two-way mirror.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you've got to look at that both sides.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the client, gives them the opportunity to go international.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so relationships are everything, it drives everything.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so the closer we are to our clients, the more that we can do with them.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's the bit I'm loving about identity.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've not I've not led an agency business like this before.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of feel a bit like a kid in a sweetie factory because it's given me the opportunity to do things that perhaps even they wouldn't ordinarily do.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so they they've given me the board's giving me the trust and the freedom, um, within reason, um, to to expand.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I see a lot of really, really exciting things for the region, which will benefit all of our suppliers, it'll benefit the freelance family that we work with, bring a bring a lot of things that this region actually needs and our clients need.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we just need more clients.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I'm not greedy.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: With identity under your leadership, Moss is not growing under it, and and I'm glad to see that things are really chugging along at a fast pace.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we always over the years made a uh tried to make a habit of catching up for coffee just to have an informal chat and talk about things like I think South Africa was the last one of the last discussions we have and how much you enjoy South Africa.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um this is a a unique way for us to catch up with our coffees.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh I hope that we can have you again and again to come and sit and chat.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And uh really thanks a lot, Ray.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Tinston.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have to get used to that.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was really great having you and uh best of luck with your myriad of of uh uh projects.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been lovely.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um happy to come back anytime.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, take care.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: The Backdrop Podcast was recorded at One Central Dubai, hosted by Michael McClannon and produced by Dan Powell.