Latest / Practice Ground / Sara Baumann: Are We Losing Our Senses in the Automation Era?
Transcript
- speaker-0: All right, I think we're recording. Hey, so I have an interesting person on to interview today, Sarah Bauman. ⁓ If you don't mind, introducing yourself, ⁓ I want to do the introduction, but I might go on for too long. So. speaker-1: I can do a rapid elevator pitch of myself. So my name is Sarah Bauman, otherwise known as Sparky. ⁓ People generally know me from the Web3 space. I started a NFT brand called Women and Weapons with my husband. ⁓ Prior to becoming an artist, I was actually an occupational therapist. However, art has been something that I have done my entire life. And it wasn't until... speaker-0: Perfect. speaker-1: probably maybe two years into COVID that I decided to make the leap into becoming a full-time artist. And it's now one of the things that I have a lot of interest in speaking about is changing your career and following a path that you're passionate about because you can ultimately make yourself successful whenever you're passionate enough and you're willing to put in the work. So I've been functioning as a full-time artist for about four years now and I have not looked back. speaker-0: Yeah, you. Thank you for that intro. And I met you through, obviously through the Web3 space. I kind of got into the space, I think that was 2021. Yes. For me, it was through VFRIEND, right? speaker-1: Okay, well, I mean, everybody that gets in through VFRIENDS is like the kindest, most wonderful here. It's complete and total sense. speaker-0: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and you know, I got in, started looking around, started seeing different artists. And you were someone that was just like, okay, you know, it first starts with like, ⁓ what she's doing is pretty cool, right? And then you follow. And then you keep watching the person. And you've become like one of my favorite artists in the space. ⁓ Yeah, definitely because of your art itself, but also just because of kind of the person you are. speaker-1: Thanks, friend. speaker-0: You have like a very positive, ⁓ kind energy. Thank you. For sure, for sure. And you know, as I was thinking of starting this interview series, podcast, leading up to my book, I was like, I definitely have to interview Sparky, for sure. Like, it has to happen. ⁓ So just to give some context is, as you know, I've written a few books. Yes. fifth book. speaker-1: and they're mostly on my bookshelf. speaker-0: Yo, thank you. And, ⁓ you know, we spoke about this earlier, where you don't necessarily know what you're creating until it's kind of done. Right. And the same thing we're writing, like, every week I write a newsletter. I don't know what I'm writing until literally it's kind of, yeah, mostly. Yeah. Okay. I think it makes sense. Right. speaker-1: It hails from somewhere deep within that subconscious that's trying to parse out, you know, bits and pieces of the world and, you know, it all comes out at some point in time and that's your way of kind of, I guess, parsing through what it is that you're experiencing. speaker-0: Yeah. And you know, to be honest, that's what kind of what I want to talk about, right? So the book is around finding meaning, right? It hasn't fully crystallized. I've written a few things, a few words that I've put aside for now. But I was like, let me go talk to, you know, some artists, some entrepreneurs, people that are building in the space. And the main question is just around how with technology evolving the way it is, right? We know we find, a lot of people find meaning through work, through family connections, but primarily, especially in the US, primarily through work. Like, I'm doing this, this is my output, this is who I am. And a lot of that is possibly going to change in the next 20, 30 years because of automation. And I'm kind of just here thinking, OK, what are some of the best practices that builders, entrepreneurs, artists have that we're having using these practices from time? And how can we kind of extend that into the future in terms of helping people find meaning? And you know, you're someone that definitely you're speaker-1: and phenomenal. speaker-0: as an artist, but you also switch careers, right? You have your prime example of that. ⁓ the main thing is mainly around how do we help people find and sustain meaning through kind of like daily practices that they can do within an outside work. ⁓ So for you, with your work, very high level question, right? How do you find meaning through your work? speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's a lot kind of how you mentioned earlier where oftentimes you don't necessarily know what the meaning is behind something until you're like close to finished or halfway there or something of that sort. I think for me, with most of my collections, so let's say for example, my women weapons collection, I knew that I wanted to put out this dichotomy of this like feminine 1950s 1960s woman. who oftentimes in the media or in ⁓ advertisements was portrayed as being lesser than, know, a woman that's meant to be quiet and stay in the kitchen. I liked the juxtaposition of that woman with a very strong, traditionally masculine weapon. But as I was working on the pieces, I realized that it was more than just using the metaphors and the symbols of, you know, the strength and the power behind weaponry and women, but it was also kind of tied to probably things that I had seen in the past documentaries on World War II era about how World War II actually gave a lot of women independence because it gave them opportunity to work in factories and be the primary contributors while men were at war. But I also saw it kind of as something that, historically men have a tendency to kind of fetishize weaponry, right? They have a tendency to like hold control over it. It's a symbol of their masculinity. Well, oftentimes I think women and the woman who is on a man's arm is a very similar sort of situation. And so that was another reason why I wanted to kind of put side by side these two items because they were very ⁓ different in many respects, but also very similar in a lot of respects. And I think I didn't really realize a lot of that until I was probably close to the end of that collection. And I've come to find that with the majority of my collections, whether it be my heritage collection, which you can see a little bit of it over here, or my sensory collection, which is over here, all of them have started with a inkling of an idea and come out with a, yes, this is how I am perceiving the world and perceiving what's happening around me and like psychologically digesting it to then try and explain it. to the world from my perspective. And I think that's something very similar to what you do with your writing as well. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. Sarah, one thing when people ask me, hey, man, you're always writing. ⁓ And they're like, how do I start? And I used to say this thing, like the Nike commercial. I was like, hey, just do it. Just sit down and write. And I thought that was because that's what I do. I thought that would be something I clicked with a lot of people. But people start and they're just like, man, what kind of? It's kind of like useless advice somehow, right? Just do it kind of thing. So how do you think through, you know, as you said, you're kind of formulating the stuff as you're going. How do you have the courage to keep going? Like, because it requires, in my opinion, courage to be like, I don't know what's going on, but I'll figure it out. Where do you find that? speaker-1: think it ultimately boils down to what you're passionate about. ⁓ I think that it's very, very hard to force yourself to continuously do something that you find that you don't have passion for. That's when it becomes monotony. And we get very bored from monotony. ⁓ I think from a very young age, I recognized that art was my passion and art was my way of explaining my worldview to the viewer. Now, if you asked me to say, do graphic design, and just sit down and get started somewhere. I could see myself enjoying it, right? And I could see myself doing it for a year or so, but I could see it becoming a job to me and becoming monotonous. And that's kind of similar with healthcare for me. I loved helping people. I loved doing good in the world. I loved making a positive impact, but ultimately it wasn't my passion. And I think that's a huge reason for why I burned out. ⁓ So I think you're right in saying, yes, just get started. Because I think for people that don't already know what their passion is or where their passions lie, that gives them an opportunity to test various things out and find their passions. You have to get started. You have to find out if it's something that you're really passionate about, if you really, really love it or not. And if not, then move on to the next thing that you feel potentially could become something that you're very passionate about. speaker-0: Exactly, exactly. And tell me a little bit more about your, like I previous profession, right, in the healthcare industry. Like, what exactly was the role, what were you doing, and how did you think about what you were doing compared to what's the arts and the stuff you were passionate about at least? speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. So prior to being a full-time artist, I worked as an occupational therapist. ⁓ I worked in outpatient therapy initially, ⁓ predominantly treating like ortho related injuries, hand injuries, and then a lot of stroke patients as well, or neuro-based patients. ⁓ Around COVID, our outpatient facility actually closed down. And so I navigated over to entirely acute care, which I had been kind of dabbling back and forth in between acute care and outpatient as some hospitals often do. ⁓ so I entered acute care and acute, was generally bopping around anywhere between ICU, the neuro unit, the orthopedic unit. ⁓ you know, it, just depended, you know, what month it was, which hospital I was at. but yeah, I mean, I was kind of all over the place, whenever I was in healthcare. So a very different, different experience, but also one that I think kind of weirdly enough, because they're very two different. parts of the world almost being healthcare and art. They did blend together a little bit because I found that the empathy that I gained as a healthcare professional and the patience that I gained for people and the ability to be transparent and thoroughly explain things to people also works very importantly in the art world. speaker-0: And, you know, it's interesting you say that, like, so my background is engineering, right? I started expressing myself more through music when I started making beats. You can see kind of like my set up back there. And then I started writing, right? And it kind of helps the writing helps because it really helps in the entrepreneurial journey where you have to communicate all that kind of stuff. But ⁓ one thing I would say when I look back on my engineering background, is some kind of systematic thinking that helps me now in terms of the structure that I bring to writing or whatever it is. ⁓ back then, it just helped me be a professional, to be honest. That was the main thing. was just like... speaker-1: That's so true. Honestly, one of the truest things that you could say, because I find that there's a lot of people that are in the art world that don't necessarily have the professional etiquette. Also, funny enough, my dad is an engineer and he's also a really good writer. There's got to be something connected there. speaker-0: Exactly There's some connection. All right. So ⁓ in terms of your art, right? ⁓ What does your medium allow you to express that words or logic don't? speaker-1: Yeah, think whenever it comes to art, ⁓ one, first and foremost, is it does allow the viewer an opportunity to gain their own meaning from the piece. So I think that's something that's very special about art because it's not necessarily a overt explanation of what it is that the artist is saying, but rather people can also garner their own meaning from the pieces. And sometimes I think that's really important and very enlightening for people. ⁓ But I also think part two is for somebody who's like myself that I'm not the best with words. I'm not the best with writing. And oftentimes I have a tendency to think in images as opposed to capability to verbalize things. Whenever there's concept things that I struggle with in my head, they generally come out much better as imagery than they do. in any other form factor, whether it be auditorially or written or any other way that somebody might consume. this has been my form of language, been painting, has been digital illustration, has been live artworks and so on and so forth. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. And have you come to a place where you're like, this is what I'm trying to communicate, right? Or is it clear to you? Because just to give you an example, I've written, I'm writing my newsletter for almost three years now. And people ask me, so what is your newsletter about? Sometimes I still struggle to explain it, right? Because for me, it's like, it's just coming to me. Yeah. you find a similar struggle or do you have a clear like this is what I'm expressing through this language. speaker-1: Well, I think humans are complex psychologically. And so I think it's natural to not always need to hone in on one specific, you know, tunnel of what it is that you're trying to convey. I think for me, the way that that is similar to your experience is that not all of my collections convey the same sort of message. It has a tendency to convey what I'm feeling, thinking, experiencing at the moment. So women and weapons, I mentioned earlier, my heritage collection was very much based off of what was happening in Iran in 2022, what happened in Iran in 1979, and my wish and want to educate people, predominantly educate. And then we have my sensory collection, which is over there, that has kind of stemmed from, I guess my... distress associated with always having to be behind a screen, whether it be my iPad, my phone, my laptop, ⁓ the television, whatever it is, and really missing that sensory experience, the feeling of a brush on the canvas, the feeling of the wind in my face, the feeling of being in a space that's too loud and there's too many people surrounding me, ⁓ and realizing that we're starting to lose more and more of that sensory experience. So that's kind of what tapped in in that collection. And then now I have a new collection called Flora and Fauna, which it portrays a lot of animals, right? It's predominantly about relationships and that stems from, think my reflection throughout pregnancy, ⁓ my reflection of my relationship with my husband, with my in-laws, with my mother, with my friends and how the relationships have evolved and how they continue to evolve throughout our lives. So. It's not one specific tunnel that it is that I'm trying to convey a specific message. It's kind of like the tunnel is ever evolving, dependent upon what my life experience is. And I think that's okay. You know, not everybody has to use the same template. I don't know why we feel like we always have to use the same template as one another. It's that's what makes the world boring. Yeah. speaker-0: I completely agree. mean, know, we're in that. And I don't know if we're moving out of it, but we definitely got to a place where it's like, was your one minute elevator pitch, was your 30 second elevator pitch. it's just like, not everybody has a pitch. And it changes with time and whatever you're working on ⁓ and your interests. we have this, like people have several interests. ⁓ Yeah, you talked about this ⁓ losing the sensory, well, I say appeal or feeling, which then brings me to the next question, right? So how do you, what practices do you take, right, to stay aligned ⁓ with your taste in a noisy environment and even noisy? And I'm even talking about the more digital noisy environments where things are moving so fast. speaker-1: Yeah, I think probably one of the biggest things is stepping away. So I don't know if you've ever listened to the podcast called the Founders Podcast. Okay, so it's a podcast where the host basically regurgitates books about or written by various founders throughout the course of history. I mean, it can go back super far or it can be very recent. And kind of one of the threads, the common threads in a lot of these founders books is that a lot of them will put themselves in a sensory deprivation kind of experience to re-center. And I think that that's something that I often do as well as a creative and like through the noise of just, you know, the world being as chaotic and as 24 seven as it is today is I will step away from that digital world and I will go visit a museum. I will go to a park. I will go to the arboretum. will just digitally unplug for like, you know, two, three, four days, whatever. And I find that oftentimes that gives me like a really solid re-centering because there's just too much happening in my head whenever you're so planted in front of, know, this digital 24 seven information overload situation. And so sometimes just that deprivation gives you a lot of clarity. speaker-0: And do you have any go-to ⁓ practices you do during these times of ⁓ stepping away? speaker-1: Yeah, I wish I was a meditator. ⁓ I'm way too ADD to be a meditator. ⁓ My husband's great at it. I'm terrible at it. ⁓ But for me, usually it's going for a walk. That's one. And then part two is if it's nice enough outside because I live in Texas and it's too hot here, is going to the arboretum. There's something about being around flowers, nature, water, things like that that just really centers me. And so, you know, though a lot of those things not be at home, they're near enough to home, especially, you know, just going outside for a walk is near enough to home and it's accessible enough that it's something that I can do to just kind of like, switch that flip and turn things off. And yeah, and I live in Dallas, you know, I live in a busy city. So if I need that sensory deprivation, sometimes the best time to go for a walk is late in the evening. Early in the morning whenever you're not gonna have to walk past your neighbors and say hello or hear a horn talking or maybe speaker-0: tell me about it. live downtown Los Angeles and it's constant like, helicopters flying, sirens going past. speaker-1: Yes, it's a lot. mean, it's know, it's funny that you say that because my husband and I went to ⁓ Asheville, North Carolina two years ago for our anniversary. And we went to the top of one of the mountains in Asheville and I realized how silent it was. It was so silent that it was like deafening. And it was probably one of the most peaceful things I've ever experienced in my entire life. Just that absolute calm. speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: You don't realize how overwhelmed you are 24 7 until you experience that just severe quiet. It's amazing. speaker-0: Yeah. is, do you explore that or do you try to get to that while you're doing your art and doing your, is that something you search for? Does it happen naturally? speaker-1: Yeah, I think so obviously I'm an occupational therapist, I think allows me to identify when I'm like sensory overload, you know? And so a lot of times I'll have documentaries on, like, I'm a big history buff, ⁓ but sometimes I do feel like suddenly I am like overwhelmed sensory wise. And so I might move my canvas to another room, turn off the TV and just experience complete and total silence while I work. And I find that It's kind of like, have you ever heard about how a person who might be deaf might have better vision or vice versa with the vision and the hearing? It's kind of the same sort of thing. If I take out all the other sensory clutter, I find that I'm able to kind of hone in and really think with more clarity about where I'm going and the trajectory that I'm heading in. speaker-0: And it's interesting you said that I was reading a book about senses, right? Our senses and how like Western culture is very visual. Like most of our sense in the West, in the US, Europe is very visual. Like even when we start talking about, you know, the LLMs and all the AI stuff, it's text, which is visual. Yeah, there's multimodal stuff, which is also visual, like in terms of like images. So, you know, there are certain cultures where senses are stronger. can literally people kind of can identify people based on smell. Yes. And and and I realized, like, I don't really use my nose to figure out as much as I feel like when I'm eating, I'm like, oh, it smells good. Besides that, I don't know if I use my nose enough. speaker-1: Well, over your touch, right? Like, you know, it's different. think for you, probably being in the city in LA, you're not experiencing as much of like brushing against a tree or the feeling of your feet on grass versus concrete and so on and so forth. So you tend to hone in a little bit more so on that visual and auditory experience as opposed to the olfactory experience, the tactile experience and what have you. speaker-0: And do you think we're losing a lot by not using some of our other senses? Do you think as a human experience, even as we're becoming more digital, most of the digital stuff is visual, Eventually, maybe they'll bring in some smell, maybe they'll bring in, it's mainly digital and ⁓ auditory. Do you think we're losing much if we're not tapping into some of the other three main senses taste and speaker-1: I think biologically we have a tendency to use it or lose it naturally. That's just how the body has a tendency to function. That's how we've evolved over thousands of years is that, you if it was a item on our bodies that we didn't need, we often lost it because it was just an additional expenditure of energy. And I think that it's probably very similar with what we're experiencing now. think. Will we experience in totality in our lifetimes? Unlikely because evolution generally takes multiple generations. ⁓ But I have a feeling that we probably have a tendency to ignore certain senses more than others. And unless you actively force yourself to tap into it, so for example, your sense of smell or your sense of taste, sense of tactile experience, unless you're forcing yourself to tap into it, Chances are high that you're going to, as a habit, rely on the visual and the auditory stimuli. So it's all about being aware of yourself and your surroundings and what's happening so that you don't lose that. So IE, I don't know if you've heard, some people go on walks and they do a color challenge where they have to look for colors or they have to smell for different flowers or tree types or so on and so forth. speaker-0: music. speaker-1: And so there are different training methods I think that people can do to force their brain to continue to tap into, you know, these various different things that they experience, whether it's going for a walk and picking up, you know, two, three rocks and just feeling the texture of the rocks or touching a tree or touching a leaf or whatever it may be. There's a lot of ways that think we can continue to stay fresh in that regard in a very digital world. speaker-0: Yeah, I remember like two years ago, I don't know if it's still happening now, every Saturday and ⁓ crypto Twitter, touch grass, know? speaker-1: I like I'm especially being nine months pregnant. feel like I'm at home like so much right now because I waddle everywhere I go. And I'm like, yeah, I need to regularly like force myself to just remember I need to touch grass. The laptop or the iPad or whatever like I need to go out and do something associated with the external world. speaker-0: external world. So Sarah, you know, I've seen you do your art, right? But I've also seen you explore AI. I've seen you definitely, we got connected through crypto art and all that kind of stuff. How do you think about it? How do you think about, you know, they're the purists, right? In my opinion, where they're like, ⁓ no, don't use this stuff, right? I see it in the writing space. Don't use this stuff like, ⁓ I want to go right in the cabin somewhere. Cool. And then there are the other ones on the other side where it's just like, ⁓ I can finally create art. I'm just going to prompt it once and start sharing whatever happens. I'm not even going to kind of iterate with the process. What role does technology ⁓ and AI crypto play in you doing your art and making sense of the world? speaker-1: Yeah, I I think like I've mentioned previously, we're very fluid and we're always kind of in this need of evolution, kind of as artists, as people, as humans. ⁓ And I think for me, it's something that I will always explore. I will always be exploring whatever the burgeoning technology is because I think it's important. I think that there's a lot of importance to being first or at the very beginning of a new frontier. immense asymmetric upside. And I know for me as an artist, you I may not be making just straight up AI art. However, I found that it has significantly improved both the efficiency and the productivity of my practice, whether it's assisting me with writing, whether it's assisting me with applications for various art fairs, ⁓ you know, whether it's assisting me with just even answering questions like, you know, what, what ⁓ medium of paint would be best to use for me trying to execute this sort of look that I'm trying to go for. And so I think for me, it's always gonna be something that I dabble with. It's always gonna be something that I'm interested in. know, AI and crypto are kind of what's hot and what's interesting now, or I should say AI and blockchain in relation to what I do. But whatever's the next thing on the horizon, I'm also going to use it. think... There's a lot of people that are in the traditional art world and there's a lot of people that are in the digital art world that say, ⁓ I will never blend with that other cohort. And personally, I don't find that to be a solid way to look at things. Look at all the people that hated photography whenever photography came out. Look at all the people that hated Photoshop when Photoshop came out. It was going to take away from these other practices. speaker-0: Thanks for Exactly. speaker-1: but they all become kind of essential tools of our working nature and something that helps us improve with our productivity and allows us to kind of create more efficiently, create maybe more creatively in some respects. And I just, never want to be the person that's like the last one on the ship because I think that's how you get left behind. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, know, just looking big picture now, what do you think the artist is trying to express? Right? You know, we've been doing art ever since. That's one thing I feel like is not changing our needs to express. Is it more personal expression or is it more trying to connect with people? I've always thought about this as a writer is like, OK. I'm writing for myself in the moment to kind of experience this flow state, try to make sense. But I also want to, after it gets to a point where then I now wanted to connect with people. Do you have a similar thing or do you start with connecting with people first and then you create or like what is kind of, how do you think about, know, what are we really doing here? What are we trying to express? speaker-1: Yeah. I think in my regard, it's predominantly about explaining something. That's a lot of where a lot of my artwork purpose comes. But I think that it's not that binary for the majority of artists. I think it has a tendency to be more so on a gradient or a spectrum. So I think you're always gonna find people that are trying to elicit a message. I think there's probably a lot of people that are in it for the popularity of it and for the headlines that are gonna be associated. I think there's gonna be people that are seeing it as exclusively a monetary career. And so they're gonna make things that are very commercially applicable. They're not gonna put immense meaning behind something. They want it to be aesthetically pleasing because they have it kind of purpose-built for that specific silo. And then I think there's gonna be people who make art that is very purposefully meant to tell a story or meant to communicate something. ⁓ And so I think it's very much... like I mentioned, on a spectrum, it's not as binary as it's just for me or it's just for you or so on and so forth. I think that there's a lot of different reasons behind it for a lot of people. And I also think of art kind of like as a timeline for a lot of people. Like sometimes you might see smaller artworks coming about from an artist and oftentimes you might find that that is directly associated with harder economic times when people could not afford as much in relation to their artworks. ⁓ You may find that some artwork periods are much more political and that's oftentimes whenever there's more political turmoil happening around people. ⁓ And so everything kind of I think is reflective a bit of a timeline in that regard also. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so we're top of the hour here. Just going to go through a series of questions, top of the mind. So do you have any symbols, tools, or rituals that you take daily into your creative process? speaker-1: Well, I will tell you right now I'm Iranian. naturally symbols and superstition are very big for me and my culture. So yes, absolutely. ⁓ do, whether I think directly recognize a lot of those, maybe not, but I would say probably a pattern maybe that I have a tendency to gravitate towards is that I generally don't work on a lot of my artwork until like almost after three or 4 p.m. ⁓ And the reason for that being is because I cannot be disrupted whenever I'm painting or making art. The disruption severely disrupts the flow. And for me, think that's a little bit of a, it's like a taboo, I guess. So that's how that portion of it is for me. But I also have a tendency to use a lot of symbolism in my artwork. ⁓ So there's usually a lot of reasons behind the colors that I utilize, behind the specific item that I utilized. So the artwork that I created for the show called Shams that was here in Dallas. Yeah, every single, I don't know what the word is whenever it's like a song, every single song that happened had different symbols in the artwork that were meant to reflect either Shams Tabrizzi or Rumi. speaker-0: soda. speaker-1: or like whatever it was that they were experiencing at the time. So I'd say that I play a lot with symbols and kind of taboos and stations and so on with my creative process. speaker-0: Okay, okay. And how do you get into that undisrupted flow state? Do you have any practice that kind of kicks you into that state? speaker-1: think this is gonna be a way too scientific answer. ⁓ But I think it's partially just ADD. I think people with ADD like myself, we're all over, all the time. Everything, everywhere, all at once type humans, right? Until we hone into something that we're passionate about and then we are so zoned into that black hole that we can't escape from it. And I think that's exactly what happens to me. I get started at three or 4 p.m. and I cannot exit the black hole until like, I'm a So outside of pregnancy, I'd be like, I'm not eating dinner. That's disruptive. I won't drink water. I will not go to the bathroom. I cannot disrupt this flow that I'm in. And I think a big portion of that is just being, you know, ADD out the wazoo. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, just locked in. there's sometimes I'm like, ⁓ let me just quickly do this. It's just going to take me 30 minutes. And then four hours later, I haven't stood up. I'm still in that place. It's locked in. Sometimes there's a fear of like, if I stop now, I'm going to lose. Yeah. speaker-1: your moment. For me, that's exactly how it is. Like I'm going to lose that moment. I'm going lose that inspiration and or I'm going to go to the bathroom and I'm going to notice there's a dust bunny in the corner and then I'm going to vacuum that up. And then I'm going to be like, Oh my God, there's a mess on the counter. I've got to wipe that up. Oh shoot. I was supposed to ship this package. I better go do that and print out the label. And that's, you know, four and a half hours later, I've done everything else in the house other than painting and my paint can is dry. So yeah, that's another part of the problem. speaker-0: Yep, yep. All right, so two more questions, right? So if the entire world, I think if the entire world moving forward with automation, right? If the world went dystopian, know, dark, a few people have power, all the money, everybody else is just scrambling to work around all these machines, right? That's dystopian. Or utopian, right? Where we're all in this fear and equal society helping one another. We don't even have to work, you know, there's universal basic income. All the machines are doing all the work and taking care of us, right? Either of the two, right? What would be your daily practice to find meaning in your own life? ⁓ Either of the two. You can choose one or you can say if I was this, I'll do this, but ⁓ What would that look like for you? Just a daily practice of finding meaning. speaker-1: think in either respect, it's gonna be connecting with living and breathing things. ⁓ So one of the things that brings me so much joy is bringing a smile to somebody else's face, whether that's helping them out at the grocery store, helping somebody online, doing something for somebody and not expecting any sort of like a monetary return. But I also love animals and so oftentimes connecting with animals gives me immense meaning. And then again, doing the things that I'm passionate about like artwork. gives me immense meaning. And the fact that, you know, many of us are already kind of aware of what things give us meaning allows us to hopefully tap into that even in a society where everything is, you know, doom and gloom and or everything is butterflies and rainbows, but it's also everything is butterflies and rainbows. So it's hard to find, you know, variation in that. ⁓ I think always just connecting with something living because there's gonna be sadness, there's gonna be joy, there's gonna be know, a variety of different emotions and experiences to kind of ⁓ reflect on. speaker-0: Got it. ⁓ So quick. These are very quick. Yes, no type questions. right. right. AI or blockchain. speaker-1: AI. speaker-0: pencil or marker speaker-1: pencil. speaker-0: All right. Light blue or navy blue. All right. Cowboys or Mavericks. speaker-1: Light blue. Mavericks. That's hard. That's a hard one. They're both bad right now. speaker-0: Okay, I'll give you an easy one then. Luca in Dallas or Luca in Lakers? speaker-1: Luca and Dallas. speaker-0: All right, Canvas or iPad? OK, cool, cool, cool. All right, so this is the last question. ⁓ As you know, I'm interviewing as many people as possible, entrepreneurs, designers, builders, artists in the space. ⁓ If there was one person you want me to interview that you could think of, who would it be? speaker-1: Canvas. speaker-0: and particularly someone that you can easily make an introduction to. So it's almost like, I'd like you to interview this person, and I know how you can get them on. It's my way of building a chain of people. So who would it be, and what would you want to ask them, to be honest? speaker-1: I think it would be... Jen Stark, if you're familiar with her, she's an artist as well. ⁓ And I feel like she's one of those people that gives her life a lot of meaning. She gives her artwork a lot of meaning. You can tell that she's a very jovial type of human and she's always seeking out like really interesting experiences. ⁓ And I feel like she gives her life a lot of like color by doing that. And so, I guess my biggest question to her would be, ⁓ how did she hone in on what it is that she needs to seek out in order to give her life so much meaning and so much joy? And she's built an incredible career for herself that I think would be really fascinating to learn from. And she's given me some tips as an artist that I have put in my brain bank and I have utilized over and over and over again. And so I do think that she could be very, ⁓ like a very helpful ⁓ bit of information, I think, for a lot of people. speaker-0: All right, cool, cool, cool. Hey, sir, thank you very much for getting on this interview with me. As usual, the information here was top notch. Like I'm looking forward to like listening back at everything that you said. And I'm wishing you all the best. I know, you know, life is getting more amazing for you, your family, for you, Jake. And just know that people like myself are always supporting from a distance. So just keep doing your thing and thank you for the time. speaker-1: Thank you for the time. I appreciate you so much, Nfemi. speaker-0: For sure, for sure, for sure. All so I'm going to end the recording now. I'm hoping.