Latest / AHA Podcast / Grief as a Silent Passenger | Becks Davis on Loss, Choice & Coming Home to Yourself (ep 9)
Transcript
- speaker-0: welcome to the AHA podcast. Today have a very, very special guest and her name is Rebecca Davis, but she goes by Becks And I actually found out about you through social media because you do document a lot of your grief journey, which I love that you do because so much of it resonates for me and so many people, I am sure. but you have a unique story because you're definitely not a stranger to grief. You have experienced multiple really difficult things in your life that are very hard for anyone to imagine, but to go through it more than once. I think you're you're definitely, while you don't call yourself an expert in grief, you definitely have lived through it. And the way that you're doing it is just so beautiful because you tell the raw truth about it, how the pain and the beauty and everything can coexist ⁓ and share the the blunders and the beautiful parts of it and So much of it resonates for me and I'm glad that you're willing to do this at this time and get this out there in the world. So thank you for being here today. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, no worries at home. speaker-0: And I have to also say, I'm in so I'm in the US. And Becks is a day ahead. And she's in Bali she's been traveling and really trying to help her children navigate this by living life to the fullest and doing the best that you can. so many things I love about the things you say, but I think we'll dive in I'll let you tell your story about who you were before and how has changed you ⁓ and kind of take us back to your life looked like prior you have two passings within your immediate family. maybe before the first one, how your life looked ⁓ and how it's changed speaker-1: So I suppose that really there was in my belief there was a level of preparation. So I would say about fifteen years ago I was navigating what you'd call in the spiritual field as the dark night of the soul, what you'd call in the psychological field as the death of the ego. Yes. at the time I thought it was depression, anxiety. ⁓ I wasn't making very good life choices. My husband had just he'd just taken on a second business and asked me to stop my job in corporate to make sure that know the house was sorted. At this point, my youngest daughter, Anastasia, had left primary school and I just completely felt I'd lost my identity in all aspects of life. I was no longer needed as as a mum within that kind of primary school age. I'd lost my identity that we gained via our careers. And yeah, I had a really, really tricky, tricky time. I was, you know, sort of leaning into things like wine and whatnot. ⁓ I wasn't really exercising, so I, sort of put on a lot of weight and I wasn't very healthy at all. And ⁓ I just decided one day that I was going to run to our local town. It was only three miles away and off I went completely unprepared. no water. And And I'm not thinking everybody's looking at me and I don't and get into this ⁓ into this town and ⁓ I'm exhausted and I'm hot and I'm dying of thirst. And I popped into my friend's She had a holistic kind of shop selling supplements and whatnot. And she gave me some water. And then this is a turning point in my life. I would honestly say that decision to run to that town that morning, and I was hungover as well. I'd been out the night before. but the decision run to ⁓ That town was the decision that turned my entire life around. I'm having a water and ⁓ my friend Helen said, ⁓ look, I go to ⁓ boot camp. Why don't I pick you up at five thirty a.m. in the morning and you're gonna go? And because I had accountability, somebody else was expecting me to go and she was picking me up. I went. Yeah, I was nearly sick, it was that horrendous, you know, it's that unfit. ⁓ yeah, it was we're rolling around in the mud and yeah, gosh, it was absolutely insane. But I carried on going and and Hells and I sort of, you know, we were building our friendship. she then had have a double massectomy to made preventative one. And she asked me if I would then look after her shop. But also she didn't want to lose her a place in a small yoga group. So she said, Would you take that on whilst I'm recovering? So ⁓ I'm working in the shop, I'm learning about supplementation, I'm learning about gut health and the connection between the gut and the mind. So I go on a big cleanse with my gut health, which helped my anxiety, helped my depression. Not that I was really diagnosed with it, but looking back I kind of know what it was. and then I start to to yoga. And I'm laid in Savasni, you know, the kind of the relaxation at the end and I'm going to places that was just, I thought this is amazing. So that kind of opened everything up for me in terms of a yogic practice. I then studying Buddhism, looking into Hinduism, doing meditations, and yeah, was like the turning point for me. And about ⁓ a year later, ⁓ I that I'd to train in and decided to go. Much to the annoyance of my entire family to go off to Thailand for a month to to train with a Buddhist monk and a Hindi Swami. Which blasted me wide open. And most people think when you go and do a yoga teacher training, that's it, you're done. No. Do a yoga training, you're wide open, you know you now have a real clear view of what's in your way, the the patterns that you're in. And that's when the work starts. So you come home from this, immersion and you that you don't fit in, you know, because all the dynamics that were there beforehand are no longer relevant. And that's that was the start of my journey. But I honestly believe had have not hit that wall of the dark night of the soul, the death of the ego, it wouldn't have projected me onto the path of yoga, studying philosophy. understanding myself, doing that deep inner work, doing womb space healing and ⁓ you know, generational kind of healing. Yes. And that is what I think prepared me for the passing of my daughter. And believe that the reason I do what I do now is because I feel that whether you want to call it God, creation, the divine, Buddha Allah, whatever it is in your belief system, I honestly believe that I was prepared. Yes. I believe that there was kind of n there was a knowing of what was to come and there was a a level of preparation for me. So now I have a tattoo on the back of my arm which came to me during a breath work after Madeline and it says sever. And in Sanskrit that means it means selfless service. And during that breath work was when I realised that actually my path here was to serve. And the that happened within my life only strengthened that ability to be able to serve. So ⁓ yeah, so was that. We actually saw Madeline the last time we saw her was on Copen Yang where we've just we've just left ⁓ Copenyang to get to to Bali and then she went to Bali and then she went to Australia which is which was where she lost her life. so yeah so that's kind of where my life went to there. But I actually went full circle really after that because you know ⁓ we went to Spain. My parents have a out there. They now live out there permanently and it's in the mountains and it's beautiful. And we went en masse after losing Madeline. ⁓ COVID hit. But because Madeline's death was quite sensationalised, she was an influencer, she was model, and she'd she'd died on a cliff in in ⁓ Bondai Beach. It was all over the news. All social media. And so we cut everything down and no social media, no news. So we were in this mountain at the top of a villa at the top of a mountain in Spain. And we're disconnected from the world. So, you know, I'm hearing from our friends about this COVID thing and I'm thinking, I'm sure it'll just be another little hand, foot and mouth thing. And before you know it, President Sanchez is is saying no lockdown. So we were there for six months. We were there for six months. And it was an absolute blessing because we got to reform, regroup, figure out who we were now within this dynamic because the death of anybody in immediate family just completely shifts the dynamic. ⁓ yeah. You know. Anastasia and Mitch are very much like me, the kind of high energy, ⁓ my husband and Madeline are very kind of calm. So we used to plonk Madeline in between Mitch and Annie to kind of balance energy and she was the oldest, you know, she was the oldest child. So that you know, the whole dynamic shifts and being away from the noise as well at home ⁓ it was so healing because we got to do our healing without the noise in the background. But I did flick on Facebook just to see how people were coping because I remember how much I struggled when I lost my purpose. ⁓ ⁓ thinking so many women, I mean, I do generally deal with women. this just how it it is happened to be. But I thought so women get their ⁓ you know, a of their identity from their career or from their roles or their friendships or the things that they do. And I'm thinking they they are probably going to be having a similar thing that that I had, you know, all those years ago. So I looked on Facebook and I could just see the fear everywhere. And I woke up this one morning, I said to my husband, I said, Olly I feel like I want to teach. I feel like I want to teach online. I want to share my knowledge of philosophy, the movements that we can do in terms of shifting energy. I want to teach people how to meditate and and I was already teaching that. But I was doing essentially they were like retreats ⁓ but online and I was teaching everything that I know and we formed a really, really beautiful community during that time. Wow. So kind of full circle goes all the way around and I've started working with Kundalini Energy. My business is quite big this point. Do you know what I mean? A lot of people wanting to work with me. Amazing. Yeah, I've got my own yoga studio and Wow. And go to do my kundalini yoga training, which a lot more working with the divine feminine. ⁓ And ⁓ until point I'd really understood that I was I was massively in my masculine. The masculine energy is one of pushing towards your goals. you know, it's that go-getting, that boom, boom, boom. Yeah. And I was becoming really exhausted. I actually had a burnout. As a yoga teacher, I had a full burnout, which is highly bad. So I'm running three businesses and everything's just go, go, go. And so yeah, I went to do my kundalini training and I recognized that I was really stuck in this masculine energy and there needed to be some kind of softening, you know. And ⁓ and essentially what happened. I started practicing kundalini on a regular basis and there was a real softening and You know, Olly and I have been together for thirty years. it wasn't an easy, you know, it was it's never easy when we were kids when we met. So there was a lot of, we'd go on different paths and blah, blah, blah. And there was there was a part of me, and I think we do this in relationships, it kind of, you know, we we often lay all our unhappiness and our at the feet of our husbands, don't we? speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I always thought, you know, well, if he could do X, Y, and Z, then maybe I'd be sort of, you know, I'd have more support, it'd be this, that, and the other. And actually, what I recognized through my practice was that I needed to soften in order for him to feel that he could fully look after me and you know, worship me, like essentially women should do. So we had a couple of years of absolute unconditional love, and also it kind of my healing journey as well, because You know, I'm there meditating and doing breath working, working with ayahuasca and mushrooms and various other bits and pieces And then I just thought, I and I think we do this on a spiritual path. We almost kind of go full circle and then it was that remembering I'm here to have a material experience, I'm here to enjoy my family, I'm here to enjoy the love and but the fun and having a glass of wine and having a beautiful meal speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: And it not all be about that path. I'm really I'm really happy, we had, two years of, like I say, unconditional love. it took us twenty-eight years to get to that. yeah, unfortunately then, yeah, I lost my husband very suddenly in February. So to answer your question, that was a very lengthy one, but there's where it started to where it is is a big circle. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. And what the gap between when you lost your daughter and your husband? ⁓ what was the between six years? Six years. speaker-1: Six years. Yeah, so we lost Madeline in ⁓ twenty twenty and then yeah, Olly Olly's in February of this year. So speaker-0: Okay. so how do you like the the grief journey was for your husband? Cause you both shared that with the loss of your daughter and it does change your dynamic as you mentioned. what was his journey it look very different from yours? speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, yeah, hugely. And I think this was the kind of biggest well, one of the biggest things really is because, you know, my husband is a very, very capable man, he was very stoic ⁓ and I think he protected a lot from a lot of the kind of they call it sadman, don't they, know, and ⁓ all the kind of official stuff. ⁓ surrounding Madeline's death. You know, Madeline had bought a house when she was 19. She was very successful and so you know a lot of that needed sorting. and, back now and realizing everything that I have to do ⁓ in terms of Olly's estate and various other bits and pieces, I am now hugely aware of how much he shouldered of that and how grateful I was that he just literally allowed me to grieve. That's that that's all I had to focus on was my grieving journey. And, I'm so grateful. I am so, so grateful. And there's definitely an element in my grief journey of that sort of you know, I I try not to go down the what ifs route because I think that's the route of all mental illness. But there's definitely an awareness how much I took for granted. A hundred percent. A hundred percent, you know, I've always been the kind of ⁓ open emotional person, he was a little bit more closed off and it was always only a little bit more emotional. And actually he was too busy dealing with the other stuff. So I could be open and I could be expressive and I could be emotional. So the loss of that sort of, that half you, I suppose, is quite, you know, because there's a lot of things I'm having to deal with now that I'm having to be incredibly strong with and almost fight for, which is not in my nature at all. yeah, we definitely grieved ⁓ differently but same. it's the same now, you know, with the kids, the kids like ⁓ An Anastasia was she adored her dad, like she was such a daddy's girl. ⁓ and Mitch, my son, was his best friend, he was his best friend. They did everything together. and I think now what I'm realising, I have a good friend of mine who lost wife in September and we speak a lot, which is so helpful. And he was saying his youngest son's going off to boarding school and he was saying, you know, I've just realized that I actually can't be both mum and dad. And in a way I thought, ⁓ yeah, I I took such a deep breath then. I thought, you know, because I have been trying to fill that I'm incapable of filling for my children. and that's, it's a realization. But it's also a necessary realisation because the life as we knew it, 'cause there's been times when my son wants to go home and you know, me and my daughter saying, We have a house back there, but we don't have a home anymore. Not not as we know it, and I'm not saying that we won't go back, but the whole dynam we've got to get used to this dynamic, we've got to get used to the fact that now we're three adults, it's not a hierarchy of mum and dad looking after, you know, two kids. This is three adults now trying to survive. the unimaginable. it has to be equal. And as much as a parent you want to fix it, you want to make it better for your kids, I also know that I will I will my children if I do that. I know that I'll prevent their growth. And I do believe that through profound grief there is a hell of a lot of growth. Very individual. I really do believe that. Yeah. speaker-0: that's so true. Actually, I was talking with another mom who lost her son on the last podcast I was on, and she talked about this analogy with the butterfly, how it's in the cocoon ⁓ and it to ⁓ kind of up the strength of its wings to push its way out. And if you just opened it and let it out, it would never learn to fly. And the fact it to build that strength to keep pushing and push its way out is the beautiful thing. And I think that's a lot like like grief and a lot like our kids, how we want to parent, because you do, you want to save them from the pain. but yeah, they need to grow through it. And I think that's doing such a service to them to just let them experience it fully and witness you experiencing it fully. And I'm curious How they're, I mean, they've already been through a very traumatic event in their lives and here they are going through it again. do feel like having gone it once, they understand grief and it's any easier in any way? Or is it just ⁓ a ⁓ totally form it was a sibling and now it's a parent and they're different things, although they're both grief. You feel like they're going through it in a different way now that they're older and that they've been through it. speaker-1: I think it's double edged really. I mean, the one thing that we've spoken about, the three of us, is you know, when when Madeline died, I remember having this thought, I will never smile again, I'll never feel joy again, I'll never I'll never be able to make love to my husband, you know, I'll never be able to do the things that bring joy. Yeah. And and and literally Annie and I were in the car going off to our local town to have a little treatment. And we'd we'd had so many fun things planned as a family because we became a very much a nuclear family, you know, the four of us. We were very close. we did a lot together. Yeah. And we were saying literally two days before Olly passed, it's like, Wow, God, ⁓ how good is our life? know, we're so happy and we feel so grateful for the life that we have. And that was two days before. Now that might sound really sad and almost ironic because of then what was to come, but actually there's a level of ⁓ wisdom that you can find in this, and and we've this is something that we've spoken about before. The fact that we felt so at peace after losing Madeline gives us the hope that we can feel again after losing Olly. ⁓ So there's that. Now, the other thing is, the kids often speak about because Madeline was travelling and she wasn't, I mean, she like I say, she bought a first house at 19, she wasn't a day-to-day sort of person within our life, although we spoke to her every day. there wasn't that reminder, you know, like at home we were still expecting Olly to come home. you know, there's things everywhere. Do you know what I mean? There's so much reminders. But also with whether it be the loss of a life partner or a father. It isn't just the physical loss, it's a loss of security, stability, safety. You know, Olly was a six foot six man, he was a big protector. Wow. You know. he was a hard working man. He was, so devoted to his family. He never wanted for He just wanted, just sort of provide us a good life. and we travelled a lot, me and Olly together. We did a lot together and as a family unit. So I think it's I'm not saying I'm there's definitely no comparison between a sibling and a father ⁓ or a daughter and husband. But the gravity of losing protector, that you know, that provider, the person, like essentially I always said because I've travelled so much alone as well, I've been to India, did some training over there and teached on retreats. He was always my safe base. You know, the kids could go off and do, on a festival. He comes back, we've got a Sunday lunch on the go, Damn self-protecting, you know, so that losing that is it's so destabilizing, know, it is incredibly destabilizing. I mean, from an energetical perspective, it completely destroys the roof chakra you know, and that's where we start to feel anxious. and he was very good at making decisions and annoyingly always right as well. So, we're all having to try and learn how to make decisions. And there's times when I've seen the kids kind of lean too heavily into me. And every part of me wants to go, ⁓ I'll do, you know, we'll do this, that and the other. And I just kinda keep going, No, Becky, this is not good. This is not good for them. they have to start making decisions on their own. And when you've got somebody that's so capable, I always see it like if you've got like a really, really good right arm, And you know, and your left arm's not so great. So you you know, but you're training and the right arm's picking the most of the weight up and then all of a sudden the right arm goes. You've really got to start to work on this left arm. This is just because it's not been used, and I see it like a muscle that just needs to be flexed a little bit more. But I'm also really aware of how long a process this is going to be. this is not gonna be an overnight process and all of a sudden the kids are gonna be independent and I'm gonna be able to just sort of make really quick and good decisions that aren't based on emotions. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've heard you talk about how it's a choice. I mean, the thing that you can control is the choice, but you can't control what happened and the grief is gonna be there. It will always be there. You'll carry it your whole life. but you get to make the choice of what you do with it. And I thought it was really beautiful what I've heard you say about that. so maybe talk about that a little, what choice you can make in the grief. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, I mean God, if anyone who's listening to right at this sort of the early stage where you're still in complete and utter shock, for me it was just that that's it, my life's over. I mean, we had like a one year plan, a five year plan, a ten year plan, you know what mean? Yeah. So, it's like f future wiped, gone. ⁓ financial situation wiped gone. know security wiped gone. We'd spent the last like sort of six, seven years building our dream home. Do you know what I mean? It's 98% done. And now don't even want to get back to it. But yeah it was just that sense of and it just this phrase just kept going over and over and over in my mind, that's it, my life's over. My life's over on 48, my life's over. You know, how can I be a widow at How can I like you know bring up two children with all of this adults, but all of this grief. And we were supposed be setting up a retreat center in France and this and I was like, it's just that's it, it's all done. It's all done. And again, I was sort of back into my old friend wine ⁓ and ⁓ I just yeah, sat the sofa this one night on my own because I've just got ⁓ I had a house for such a long time. It's like guys, just everybody wants to protect you from your depths of grief, and I'm like No, you're distracting me from it, and I need to be in this, Yeah. And actually the wine was helping me kind of crack open a little. But I'm a little drunk I'm crying. And this thought is going around and around and around my head, my life's over. And literally it was like an epiphany. And, it was that kind of sense I can see my life as ⁓ over or could see it as a blank canvas. And ⁓ where choice lies now is this how how do I paint there's a level of fear of the unknown. But if you can allow it there's also a level of excitement. when you're making life decisions with a partner, it's very much based around the two of you. And ⁓ if you're anything like myself and Olly were, was a stronger character, I'm a lot more fluid. So it was generally based around, what Olly felt was right. Like I never wanted to live in the UK, Olly did. and yeah, I'm not saying I sat there and got all excited, but instead I just had this picture of this blank canvas and and really thinking, I pretty much do what I want now. obviously I've got the children to think about, I've got my family to think about, ⁓ my in laws are I live next door to my in laws, his parents are very elderly and You know, my parents in Spain and dad's got, you know, stage four lung cancer. I'd been to and and fro in from Spain as well. so I do have responsibilities. But I think that's what the other thing that grief does as well. It's like, you know, it's not I think as women, sometimes we can be overgivers. And I've always been the capable one in family that brings everybody together. And at the moment I'm so focused on me and the children that I'm not saying I don't care about them, but I'm not feeling myself as responsible as everybody else. So this blank canvas is very much based on myself and my kids. Yeah without thinking of the bigger picture. And and again, that might come across selfish, but this is my now. And it's my choice how goes forward. for me, life doesn't make great deal of in the West, it never has and Eastern life better for me. But I needed to try all this out with the kids and see how they landed with it. You know, I'm not expecting to go and sit in caves and meditate for three and a half hours a day or anything like that. but yeah, I think you know, I also I'm so aware because I was stuck there too for, nearly two months of that mindset of also having no energy, you know, because you're all your energy goes in just getting putting one foot in front of the other. know, just living through each moment alone each day. Yeah. So the idea of having a choice, could potentially put someone in a massive free state. And I think also, this is what kind of led me into my sort of philosophy training was, we get stuck, don't we? We did get stuck when we have to make a decision or we're at a crossroads in life. And ⁓ I see this is the first layer. And then Or the next layer then is that kind of anxiety, we get like riddled with anxiety because we know that we have to kind of make a decision and we're stuck here because we're in this freeze mode. Yes. The other layer from that anxiety is actually excitement if we allow it. Yeah. And I believe that the only way to get through all of that is this next layer. And in that next layer is impermanence. And it's a real recognition that nothing is forever. Whether that be us as people, that sounds morbid. whether that be success, wealth, possessions, nothing's permanent. And I think as soon as we're able to that, we move through that anxiety to the excitement. And then we can start to see our lives ⁓ and cycle of life as a natural progression. And this is not spiritual bypassing, you know, we have to feel our grief. But we can feel excitement at the same time of the prospects of life. Even if it's that tiny little glimmer. And I think it's like kind of going through a dark forest and just seeing that tiny little bit of guiding light at the front. That's how I see it really. speaker-0: Yeah, I think it is the fear and the excitement that kind of makes life beautiful. a lot of people try and hit this level of comfort, like, okay, I've finally made it in life. I have the good job, I have the stable income, the home, ⁓ and you hit this level you think you've sort of made it, I guess. but then something happens in life that shakes it up. And that's where you get to see your real creativity and see what you do with that. And that's where the choice comes in when you have something shake it up. ⁓ speaker-1: And growth never ever happens in your comfort zone. And if you're happy to stagnate that's perfectly fine. You know, that's perfectly fine. But for me, I've known that the hardest challenges in my life have the most profound ⁓ growth as an individual. ⁓ speaker-0: Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. And I love what you've done with your kids too. now it's kind of the three of you going on adventures ⁓ and I mean you went to Thailand and now in Bali and that just bonds you even deeper and you're all share grief together. And I think that makes the love even that much deeper that you're all going through it together and all going on this adventure together and it's teaching them Also yeah, speaker-1: Yeah. away. There's no kind of like escaping, know. At one point before we went away, Anastasia, she's not really let her friends into this process this time. She did with Madeline, but she was really leaning into like nephews and going off there and now here, like we don't the support network. which sounds quite terrifying, but actually when one of us has like a ⁓ bit of a wobble. Or a massive wobble at some point, you know, we have to talk it through. have no choice, there's no one else to go to. We have to talk it through as a family. And like I say, the dynamics have changed much like poor Mitch, he's so used to like watching football with his dad, you know, going for a pint on a Friday with his dad. On holidays, me and Annie be going and doing the facials, you we are very girly and he's really lost that male figure. and I know I can't step into that. I don't know the first thing about football. but also in the same breath, I think, he leaned very heavily on Olly and Olly, sort of compensated for Mitch quite a lot. He has additional needs. and now, ⁓ now we're settled in he's to go and find his people. You know, he we went off to play paddle last night. he's got a table booked with some older guys. to watch the football which I think starts at six AM here, the first England match, So he's having to flex that muscle. And that's good. I think and I've had a few comments on posts of, and I know where it's coming from. Don't you think it's about time you took those children home and you got home? And and I understand where it's coming from because so many people want to fix your problem. You know, you say, you know, I'll turn upon social media, I'll flip my camera on and start crying, you know, and everyone's ⁓ my god, it's all going to shit, you know, getting at home and you know. And I'm like, because at home we're distracted. You know, we're distracted. There's no ⁓ there. And also, I'm still dealing with a lot of stuff with the and businesses and various other bits and pieces that, You get all this noise and the chatter from everybody else's sort of perspective and it's really difficult for you to make such a sound decision. So, being away from here, I'm having to kind of make these decisions on my own. Mitch is having to find his way, and Annie had a bit of a meltdown on Father's Day because I'd said something about her makeup and and it just kinda broke. And she came into my room the day and I she says, let's can I have a cuddle. So we laid on the bed. I said, I'm really sorry, darling. I was so thoughtless saying what I said about your makeup and you know that I would never say anything intentionally to hurt you. It would always be because I want to protect you. I want you know of course. And she said, I got that mum and I think any other day I'd have probably I'd probably handled it okay. but my dress was dirty and I felt like I you know an ⁓ annie code spy of, you know, the armour of looking really, really good. And you know, it was and I sort of said to her, you do darling you'd had some choices way before you knew that it was gonna be difficult. And if you know that these are your coping strategies, maybe there should have been a level of preparation. Maybe going out and buying a new dress. ⁓ Maybe sure that, there were certain things in place so you were comfortable instead of just rocking up to the day. and that obviously I took my So this is what I'm saying, at home maybe Annie would have stomped off and gone to, like her nieces and nephews. Maybe I'd have grabbed a glass of wine like here. we have to face it all. Yeah. We have to face that and it's not all Rosie and we're on this great big great you know grief ⁓ growth journey. a lot of it's really messy. yeah. a lot of it's kind of, fallouts about ⁓ the are nothing to do with the grief, but it's like they're the where that they kind of open up what's actually, in us all, which is just this massive grief. So ⁓ speaker-0: Exactly. It's buried in there and then everything builds on it. And then sooner or later it's gonna kind of crumble. as you're talking, I was thinking about what you said because obviously Father's Day was recently and that would be very, very difficult. what some things that you do to prep yourself? Like in the morning, if you ⁓ just know me with my grief, sometimes I just wake up and I go, ⁓ no, it's gonna be one of those really heavy grief days. And you wake up kind of knowing that. What do do when you know it's going to be a hard grief day? speaker-1: The opposite to what I'd normally do, I decide for myself. No, I don't I you know, like I've always said it's so important to feel, so in the morning, like I say, I've been getting up early. I walked down to the beach and I needed to kind of ⁓ I needed to prepare myself to be the vessel that day. And I wasn't the vessel, to be honest. the people that were staying with were the ones that sort of like underpinned it all, which I was so grateful for. Yeah. But I needed my own space and my own kind of time and I'd had a really, really vivid dream about Olly the night before and we had a conversation about some big that I need to make. So I thought I'll go and watch the sunrise and just like have a bit of a debrief. Kind of came back here and again it's it's not my first rodeo and I know that's a stupid thing to say, but I also I'm so aware that the anticipation ten times worse than the actual day. Do you know what I mean? So, for example, Madeline's birthday. since my children were babies, I have made such a fuss of them on their birthdays. I just love to celebrate people's birthdays. And the first Madeline's first birthday after she died, so she died when she was twenty-one, so she should have been twenty-two. And there was only me, my son, my at home, and the men handled it in their way, which was doing jobs and not really mentioning it. And there's me just like having a full on meltdown and not wanting to upset anybody else. So I'm going to bed. And that's the other dynamic, isn't it? it's regulating amount of grief that you prepare to show the other people that are also in the same process. ⁓ So I'm crying eyes out. And I just sort of vowed to myself that day, I will never have another day like this. Not an another grief day, but I will never the anticipation like I say is the build up. So for now what we do is we we do something really fabulous on Madeline's birthday. And although there's that anticipation, there's always a looking forward to how we're gonna honour Madeline. And we were gonna go to a beach club on Sunday, but we couldn't get in, which is probably a good thing because you can't really honour somebody at something that he would have hated. ⁓ Instead we somewhere that did a like a Sunday roast with Yorkshire puddings. And then we went to the beach to watch the sunset and ⁓ and it was a really lovely day. So I think yeah, it's sort of recognising the you know the anticipation's gonna give you a lot of anxiety, maybe doing something that's quite grounded in the morning, like for me, it was watching the sunrise and my whole day was sandwiched with the sunrise and the sunset and I thought, that was quite special. ⁓ yeah. I mean those parts of me like, ⁓ gosh, I don't think I supported the kids enough because I was too busy trying to get through the day as well, but they both said they had a wonderful time and if things come up afterwards, then we can we can handle them then. So you never know as a mum, do you, if you're doing enough, too much, not enough and you just do what you think is right at the time. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, and I saw your post about when you were at the beach and think it was your friend you were with, found these random pieces that spelled out Olly, which is your husband's name. is that what happened? ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, she just came. I'dn't seen that it said Olly, so I said, ⁓ does that say love? And I said, ⁓ my gosh. but I'd also asked for a sign. Now I have spoken about signs and whatnot, and even though I teach yoga, I'm not very, like woo-woo and this, that and the other, but I'd actually ask Olly for a sign because he was a drum bass DJ when we met. I was a model, he was a drum and bass DJ and we totally catfished each other and then we're both kind of just middle aged, like really boring people. ⁓ ⁓ but yeah he collects drum and bass records, white labels, his collection's absolutely fantastic. And I'm so frightened of owning these records because they were his pride and joy and they're worth a lot of money. And think I need to sell them because I literally haven't to put padlocks, all that kind of stuff. And the anxiety of keeping it is probably not worth keeping them. so I'd sort of said to him in my and then when I went to see the sunset, I What I do about your records, dude? Like, do I sell them? ⁓ I was like, show me a sign. Just show me a sign. Show me a bluebird. So just after Sophie come with these stones, I was like, that's really cool. Went to the loo and this bluebird just literally went into my face and almost knocked me back. And I thought, right, those records are getting sold. It was definitely yeah, and also songs as well, you know, songs that come on, we in North Thailand, a beautiful mountain ⁓ area and we just sat having dinner. I mean the kids and like every single song was like a song that was really, really important to us. I'm like, no dad is a hundred percent here. I know this is crazy. And then Africa by Toto came on, which is Mitch's favourite song and then Annie's favorite song came on. But like, wow, well he's he's here. speaker-0: Wow, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Yeah. ⁓ there's another story I've heard you share that I would love if you could share. It's the one about butterflies with Madeline. You have a story about that. Share that one too. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. I'd love to tell it actually because it was yeah, it was really, really beautiful. So ⁓ I worked with amazing Reiki practitioner for many years. So when I started working at the supplement shop, she had a room upstairs. So I started having Reiki. didn't really know a great deal about it, but all I knew is I was feeling better after it. And I was having a few kind of tricky situations with Madeline. She was 15 and just transitional. And that therapy kind of helped me through that. And I'd gone in and out every now and again for years later. And Madeline died in Australia. And so the whole, ⁓ process was really, really lengthy and ⁓ really and Isabel had given me a call and said, Look, I'd really like to give you a session, please can you come in? I was like, Yeah, yeah, I'll come through. And I'm laid there having this session. afterwards she said, I've got a message from Madeline. ⁓ I was like, Okay. And she says, Mummy. Now that was the first thing. 'Cause I'm so I'm so sceptical, even though I'm in this field, I'm so sceptical about anything like that. Sure. But like most people presume that twenty year old still called me mummy. You know, so she Mummy, ⁓ just to let you know, I've not transitioned yet. But look out for the butterflies, that's when I will pass over. And I'm thinking, good luck with that. It's January in England and it's freezing. So I'm looking out for these butterflies everywhere. and we get to the day of the the funeral and ⁓ I go outside for a cup of tea whilst we're waiting for the hearse to arrive and just try and decompress. And a little white feather comes floating down. I thought maybe that's the sign. I'm okay with that. So at the time we only lived in a small village, so the hearse arrived and we all walked with the hearse to the the church and obviously the church was absolutely packed. We walked to the front and as the doors closed, 'cause I'd told a few of my friends about this ⁓ this Reiki session, I just heard this gasp and I looked behind me and a swarm of like probably not say a swarm, it'd be like eight or ten white butterflies just came in in February in in the winter in England ⁓ and just flew the top of the church and just flew around me, my husband and my two children. It was me too. Yeah, and it it was really, the day my husband's funeral and the day of my daughter's funerals were like the worst days of life, and ⁓ so hard to get through, like yeah, really to dig so deep just to get through that day. Yeah. ⁓ And to have that sign for me just brought ⁓ God, so much comfort. So much comfort, you know. And and gave us something to talk about for years afterwards as well, you know. It was really beautiful. Really beautiful. speaker-0: I love that. they're both have given you signs. I'm also sometimes skeptical, ⁓ overall I've some things that are undeniable my own grief where I'm a believer. But what are your beliefs around what happens after you die? Do you believe that your husband got reunite with his daughter on the other side? speaker-1: Like to believe so, yeah. I believe that there's maybe soul contracts and you know, they maybe reincarnate in just in different kind of forms and okay, well I'll be dad this time and you be this this time and we'll try and work through these life lessons at this time. So I believe that with this yeah, there's there's ⁓ like soul contracts and there's groups that so yeah, in my belief system, ⁓ yeah, a hundred percent I believe they're reunited. I a percent believe that they're at peace. ⁓ I a hundred percent believe that actually it's one of the bravest things that a soul can do is choose to come and incarnate on earth as well. So I'm like, yeah, you guys just yeah, have a bit of a rest now. ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ They left you to keep Yeah. They're like, thanks. time you're gonna have to do the hard work. speaker-1: Doing the hard work out there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, I mean that that's sort of formed from my I suppose, yeah, my my readings into Buddhism, Hinduism and things like that. But also just an an inner knowing. You know, an inner knowing that, the soul is energy. you can't destroy energy, you know, then the body is a simply a vessel to carry the soul around. So yeah, I do believe that they're together. speaker-0: That's beautiful. And have you used that energy work continuously? Is that a tool that you use throughout your grief? speaker-1: Meditation, now this is a strange thing. So meditation was my absolute anchor after losing Madeline. I was meditating for like anywhere, anything up to six hours a day. then went through a breath work kind of journey ⁓ and it was really strange actually. We had a lady called Fabiana come over to the studio. she works with Wim Hof, she's Wim Hof's sort of right hand woman. So she came over, she's doing this breath work and I'm really in deep in this breath. work and it's that kind of like DMT breath work. So you're just your astral projecting, you're going here, there and everywhere. I love it. It's amazing. I love the high place for content. And she brings us out of this breath work and she's going, ⁓ and I'm just like, I'm still in it. And it's a big group, you know, it's a big group and it's my studio as well. And Fabiana came up to me and she said, she it's time to come back. It's time to come back. And then I burst into tears and I just said, I don't want to. speaker-0: О. speaker-1: I don't want to and that's when I kind of realize that actually Was an element of bypassing with my practice, you know, whether that be breath work or meditation, know, and this was like a bit of a turning point for me in terms of my spiritual path of really focusing the higher chakras and the higher states of consciousness and really kind of forgetting that I'm here to live a material experience. So that breath work in particular was a bit of a turning point for me. So It's so strange because I've been in Kyopanyang, which where I've done all of my training. I know so many incredible teachers. I went to like one class whilst I was there. ⁓ and I'm being called other than to teach, I'm not being called to actually do much, but what I I am leading into is my philosophical teachings, you know, so recognizing where the mind goes. So, ⁓ in the Yoga Sutras, there's a sutra that speaks about something called Chittavritti. And ⁓ Patanjali that wrote this two two three thousand years ago. he speaks into like how we process information on a daily basis. And so ⁓ the first this is like, a million times a day. So the first section is like the manas. So this is how we receive information through the sensors. And the way I always teach this is like would see an orange or would smell the orange. It then goes into the boody, which is like our kind of like our filing cabinet, you know, okay, and it's recognition. So from previous experience, from seeing and smelling this and touching this orange, I recognise that this is an orange. It then goes into another part of the mental processing called the chitta. Mm-hmm. ⁓ And within that we raja and dweisha, which is I like, I don't like, I prefer, I don't prefer. so I like the orange, don't like the orange. ⁓ and then from there you've got the ego of action, ahamkara. So we'd would want to eat the orange or Maybe if we couldn't afford to buy the orange, but we really like the orange, and we're gonna start the ego of action is going to be anger. And the chitavritti is what the yogis say, or what the sages say, is where most of human suffering comes from. This constant preference or aversion to everything. I like this, I don't like this, I prefer this, I don't prefer this, I want this to be, I don't want this to be. Yeah. And that's not just being passive and just saying, I'm okay with the fact that I've lost my daughter, my husband. But what I don't do is I don't fight against it. I don't fight against the isness of the situation. You know, the situation is what it is. I can be sad. I cannot, you know, want it to be, but that is not gonna change. You know, my butting up against or my resistance to the fact that this has happened is only gonna cause my suffering. It will not bring them back. So that is one of the most fundamental yoga sutras for me that helps me with my grief process is just, you know, even in a meditation, you could be sat in a meditation and somebody starts snoring and you're like, I don't like this, I don't like this snoring. And then your ego of action is that you're gonna be kind of, irritated or like you're in a sound bath and you get like ⁓ an itch you get a pain in your leg and then your ego of action is to move and it's gonna pull you out of your meditative state. Yeah. you're in a you are rushing to work then you become in a traffic jam or you're in a queue and then all of a sudden, I hate being in this queue. I'm so frustrated, you know, this traffic jam, it's gonna make me lake, and the ego of action is then anger, frustration. Yeah. But what happens if we just go okay? I mean Eckhart Tolly speaks about this all the time in the power of now. You know, he speaks about being stuck in the mud, and you might say this, yeah, it's so dreadful being in this mud, but it's not gonna get you out of the mud. Actually, if we just go, okay, I'm in the mud, actually free yourself up, you free your mind up to make more decisions in terms of how to remove yourself from the mud. And can incorporate that in any aspect of our lives, and particularly grief. we don't have to like the situation. Also, as well as singling out current moment. And this is the one thing that I do when I'm really in the depths of it. ⁓ and something that I, I do really like to teach. like when speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ and the the other thing as well is like with the life situations I'm dealing with on top of the grief, there's a huge amount of anxiety. Like I've just had to send an email that's really quite serious and you know, like my heart's pounding and I'm physically shaking. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And it's just about singling out this moment. And so I might be really in the depths of grief, having to deal with something really official that I'm not used to dealing with. Yeah. And I go, okay, well, what's wrong with this moment? Like literally single it all out, you know, focus on it, listen to it, listen to the sounds. And again, we're gonna go into that chitavritty, we're observing our surroundings, ⁓ no preference or aversion. know, we're gonna observe the sounds, what can we see? What can we touch, smell and see? And just be present in that current moment and ask yourself, what is wrong with this moment right now? Not your life situation, just this moment, just carve it out. Just as one single moment. And you'll always find peace there. Even if it's just that one moment, the second we project out into the rest of our future or all of our past. And you can't always do that. You can't always do that. But it's a tool. And it's a tool. And so most people think that because I'm a yoga teacher, it's the physical principles that help me through. I'm too exhausted. I mean, I'm teaching it. But very, very slowly. But it's the philosophy that I've lent into most this time. Hundred percent. Hundred percent. speaker-0: That's that's all beautiful. There's a lot of good tools there. are you still teaching Are you ⁓ actively still on all your philosophy teachings with yoga? speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ it and it's it's it's going really well. I mean it's gosh, it was such a shame because I built so much up before it was when my dad was diagnosed with the lung cancer in the the November. And I knew I'd have to and fro from Spain, so I stopped teaching. and I was still online, so I have a membership. we do like early birds, on Tuesday and a Thursday we do half an hour, very, very like short practice, but we We this is like our sacred time, you know what I mean? Like this is we we is our time as like I see it as like a power bank. we just want to lie on our own power banks for a bit, it sets us up for the day. half an hour, two days a week. That's we meet to do that. And all my videos are on there as well. So the members get access to that. And after Olly died, I was just like, guys, I'm just gonna cancel the membership. And a lot of women have been with me like seven, eight years, and ⁓ they're like, ⁓ bet we would have carried on paying it just for the videos, the recordings and everything. And I said, I can't take it, but I'll keep you all on the recording. So and then in I was like, ⁓ God, I need my tribe, you know, I need my own, my own sort of ⁓ And so I reopened it. And since I've been travelling, it's been fantastic because I have trained with some of the most incredible teachers all over the world, you know, in Thailand, India, like literally all over the place. ⁓ And I've always said to everybody, you should go and do a yoga teacher training. I don't want to teach yoga. It doesn't matter. You know, like this stuff should be taught in schools. Like literally this stuff should be taught in schools. Go and do a yoga trade but not everybody's in that position to be able to go off and do that. And it's something that I'd planned about two years ago for my Zoom classes, because it's all online that I do now. Was to bring these teachers to speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: your average ⁓ woman, I don't mean that in a disrespect, I'm an average woman, you I just have mum and a well wife, and you know, I'm just an average like middle-aged woman. Yes. And it's having access to this wisdom. You don't ⁓ always have to go to end. So I've had one of my Swamis, you we did a session two weeks ago, ⁓ Raj, who's actually ⁓ a teacher from Sikh philosophy, and it was just a a wonderful session. there's ladies just sat there with a cup of tea on the sofa listening to like this guy with the turban and the beard and it was wonderful. and I met my friend Astrid, who actually lives in Bali now. she was my anatomy and physiology teacher nine years ago, and she focuses on the fascia, you know, the connective tissues and how store these like trapped emotions within the fascia. You I've got a I've got a philosophy teacher in India that I'd love to do some work with and I honestly believe that we've got a mission or a dharma in life is to translate ancient wisdom for your average average woman that's, ⁓ you know, just trying keep a family together and ⁓ this wisdom it's life changing. It's life changing. So that that's growing, that's growing a lot. we got lot of women sign up for these online events, they get a recording, they can do it in their own time. And becoming quite the community and it's not just grieving people, it's just anybody that's suffering from burnout or, you know, just live situations that become so heavy. And the session that did with Raj, we only did about a five minute kind of mantra meditation at the end. The session ended up being like an hour and a half, you know. Wow. And It's just, the feedback that I got was incredible. They were saying l women were saying I cried, not like sad tears, but because I got it. I've got it. I got where I was going wrong. I've got where I was stuck. ⁓ And yeah, I like it's such an honor to be able to sort of open this up for people that are struggling in life situations. So because it's helped me so much. So yeah. speaker-0: figured out your purpose. I mean, it all makes sense, like you were saying, the the overall theme of your life with all the things you've been through and the healing and the the way that they happened and the timing of them has all kind of led you here. And it's beautiful you're recognizing purpose and teaching and sharing this with the world. Because it is so valuable, I think, to go back to those ancient traditions and we think we've come so far in the world, but really we've become so disconnected and that's where so much anxiety comes ⁓ the world, the society we've has kind of destroyed our nervous systems or and speaker-1: Hundred percent. And the message that's there as well, whether that be through the media or marketing, it's always the same. You are not enough. You know, not enough you without this product, without this, the service and then the influence. And I know there's been a big shift on social media, which is why I'm a lot more engaged in it now, because I really didn't like the whole way that it was like this aspirational living, you know, that felt so far removed from everybody, And it's again it's just that message is I'm not enough. I don't have enough. And then that just keeps us working and women in particular, we were so like, the feminist movement, ⁓ to be honest. I think it was just to get two more of taxes from a household because it does not serve us. And I'm not talking about masculine and feminine here, but like all of a sudden now you're in your I mean masculine and feminine energy, we need equal amounts of both. I mean, I spoke about this earlier, you know, that I was stuck in my masculine and when we're out at work, we're in our masculine, we're providing, we're making decisions, we're moving towards our goals. When we're in our feminine, we're nurturing, we're home protecting, we're looking after our our children. But with modern day, and this is why there's so many women and there's and men as well, but ⁓ you know, I work with women, so I'm always going to teach from that perspective. Yeah. You know, they're they're they're at work. And they're in their masculine, but they're still going, ⁓ gosh, is little Tommy, gonna get picked up from school on time, have we got stuff in for dinner? ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ is the house tidy enough 'cause we've got guests coming over. Then you're at home and you're ⁓ God, did I get that email sent off? Is that is that deadline gonna get met? We're never fully embodying either one of those energy centres and that is when we start to implode. ⁓ But when we've in that for too long. And I think there's I mean, I think it's a pandemic. I think it's a pandemic of burnt out women that are just been sold this illusion that we can be excellent at both. It's impossible. speaker-0: That's so good. hundred percent agree with that. Yeah. I love that you said that. That's so important for women understand why they're feeling it and that they're not alone. I mean, it's almost like it was designed to put them in that place and then you wonder you're there. but yeah. speaker-1: Hundred percent. We're supposed to be slower, you know, like the feminine energy is the energy of the moon, it's reflective, it's soft, it's gentle, our teacher ⁓ in fact if you want me, I'll give you a little bit of a demonstration. So like ⁓ we fluctuate between the masculine and feminine energy all the time. And so you heard of chakras, yeah? So the chakras run down we have like speaker-0: Yes, I have. speaker-1: something called nadis so they're energy channels we've like 72,000 of them and right down the centre we have something called the Shishumni Nadi and this is where all the chakras align and as the Shishumni Nadi comes up to the throat it twists so the right side is the pingler so ⁓ left side is our feminine energy the body ⁓ right side is the masculine energy when it comes to the throat it it twists the left Brain is the masculine brain, the brain of logic, analyzing, judging, figuring things out. The right side is the one of emotions. it's actually the higher, more evolved brain, to be honest. It's the kind of, I say more evolved, that's the wrong word. It's a brain of knowing and intuition and feeling. This is the master brain, okay? But we're conditioned to only listen to the servant, which is like the tool, the left brain. But energy-wise. In an ideal world, you wanna be in your masculine energy in the morning. You wanna have that kind of get up and go, I'm ready to go. ⁓ but sometimes you're just like, I just can't be bothered. I can't seem to get myself motivated to move forward. So we're stuck in our feminine. You might get to bed at night all of your energies in your head, I've still got to figure this out, I've still got to work that out, I'm still in my left brain, I'm still in my masculine. When you really need to be in your feminine. And the way that you can do it is literally just by licking your finger and then breathing through your nostrils. speaker-0: I'm gonna try it. speaker-1: So I'm breathing a lot more heavily through my left nostrils. So I'm in my masculine. But I'm here to do a podcast, you know, there's a lot of energy, speaker-0: you could tell by breathing which nostril and which you're in. speaker-1: Yeah. So which nostrils more heavy? speaker-0: I feel like it was my left one more. speaker-1: Yeah, but I mean we're we're both on a podcast, you know what I mean? So we're both having to be in that masculine energy delivering something, which is good. But if you find that you're in your masculine energy at night, it's gonna be impossible to switch off because you're all in your head. So all you do there is you place two fingers on the third eye and you're gonna breathe, or you could bring those down here, you're gonna breathe to alternately through your nostrils by blocking them off. So you you'd like if you can see from here, you'd block your right nostril with your thumb and you breathe in through the left. Block the left, breathe out through the right. through the right. Block, breathe through the left. And you're literally just gonna do that for about five or ten minutes. And that that's a pranayama. That's a yogic pranayama called nadi shodana. So nadi is your vessels, your opening, your channels. Shodana is just alternate. And it's just a really nice way of balancing that masculine and feminine energy. I speak a lot about masculine and feminine energy, but it's never about gender, it's just about energy. speaker-0: I love that. speaker-1: But as soon as we as soon as we recognise ourselves as energetical beings, then we're all of a sudden we're empowered. We don't then think that we're like so victims of circumstance. You know, like I know full well that, sometimes my heart chakra's being blocked off and when my heart chakra's being blocked off, which we do because we close it the space off because we've been hurt. Yeah, we've got grief, sorry, rejection, all the stuff. So you want to block the energy off, to protect it. But then you're blocking yourself off for love, you know. Giving and receiving love. you're blocking yourself off for forgiveness. and you're holding you're carrying around resentment, you're beating yourself up from your own past their past mistakes, you block yourself off from compassion, knowing that, you know, everybody's always just doing the best with what they've got. some people get it right, some people get it wrong. ⁓ And, it's the same with us, there might be times that we regret, you know, with our partners or what with the people that we've lost and but at any given time we're probably only doing our best. And this is heart chakra work. We close it off during grief and that's why so many people get stuck in rumination. What ifs you know, why couldn't I have done better? What I could have done this differently. opening the space of the heart, physically, energetically, understand yourself as an energetical being, then you're empowered, you can do something about it. It doesn't heal you. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: You know, you're always gonna have that grief, but it just opens you up to more love, joy and compassion. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. It's an ongoing journey and meant to be. You never hit the state where you're like, Okay, I'm cured, I'm healed. Yeah. ⁓ No. speaker-1: Yeah, with or without grief. With or without speaker-0: ⁓ you're right. that's just life ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, I just see grief as a silent a silent passenger now. I agree. And sometimes it gets a little noisy. And that's okay. I'm okay with that. But I also do believe that it's so fundamental. Like I say, whether it be if you're navigating grief or stress or difficult life situations, you know, have to embrace the darkness. You know what I mean? And somebody said something in one of my comments and it was just amazing. Yeah, I just see grief as a silent a silent passenger now. I agree. And sometimes it gets a little noisy. And that's okay. I'm okay with that. But I also do believe that it's so fundamental. Like I say, whether it be if you're navigating grief or stress or difficult life situations, we have embrace the darkness. You know what I mean? And somebody said something in one of my comments and it was just amazing. speaker-0: Yes. Yes. speaker-1: You know, spend some time in your grief by all means, but don't marinate in it. spend some time in your grief by all means, but don't marinate in it. speaker-0: Yes, yes. Yes, yes. speaker-1: And I was just like, because the thing is we have to embrace the darkness, you know, because we're here to experience all the emotions. Yeah. We're not just here to experience joy and happiness and peace. We're here to experience all of it. Because if we didn't know loss we wouldn't have known love. Do you know what I mean? If we if we didn't if we didn't know shame, we wouldn't understand pride. and I think it's just so fundamental and this is And I was just like, because the thing is we have to embrace the darkness, you know, because we're here to experience all the emotions. Yeah. We're not just here to experience joy and happiness and peace. We're here to experience all of it. Because if we didn't know loss we wouldn't have known love. if we didn't know shame, we wouldn't understand pride. and I think it's just so fundamental to ⁓ and this is speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: what I implement on my own journey is that when these waves of grief come, I allow them. what I implement on my own journey is that when these waves of grief come, I allow them. Sometimes I welcome them because I'm that bloody busy. I end up like I need good cry. But welcome them. Because energy, ⁓ emotions are just energy emotion. ⁓ And will get trapped unless we ⁓ allow to pass through. And sometimes we feel that it's just gonna pull us under. But I can say, having been through these two losses, It doesn't if you allow yourself just to ride the waves, except the lower points. Just wait till you come back up on the crest again. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. It's a roller coaster. yeah. have you to a point in your grief where you can call it a gift because although you wish it never would have happened, there are gifts that come with it. like maybe the love that you've experienced from people or speaker-1: Yeah. I mean I remember I have to be quite careful though because I remember when when Madeline died. You know, so much beauty came from that. so you know, there's so many beautiful things. For starters, I lost two stone in weight. ⁓ I mean just joking with that, but it is quite significant to the story. But then, you know, my teaching got very, very big and I was finally being not speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I I don't do what I do for recognition, but obviously the more people that are doing it, the more you're getting the message across. And like I say, we've formed this beautiful nuclear bubble between the four of us and some really like amazing friendships. So I have four friends from different aspects of my life and I didn't even know at the time that they had like a group chat and had a timetable of who was coming to do what at what point. So they all became good friends there, now known as the fold, and bless them that had to fold around me for the second time. You know, there was a lot of beauty that came from it. Now, the only issue was I think I had another mini Dark Knight of the Soul about four years ago, and this is when I started working, thinking right, okay, I need a little bit of a shift here. I clung to this stuff that came from that. so when I started putting some weight on. ⁓ my god, I need to keep it off because that was something that came from the loss of Madeline. I had a bit of a shift in my business, and I was like, ⁓ my god, if that goes, you know, ⁓ this you know part of my journey. If that goes, I'd actually attach myself to a lot of the beauty that came. ⁓ And I almost felt like was to lose that, I'm gonna go back to square one. So, ⁓ yes, there is definitely. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: an element of you know there is a lot of beauty that comes from it but it we can't use that as our life raft because then we could we're gonna get attachment, yeah. And permanent so but I do believe in terms of of how it expands you as a person, because it also during the the early stages of grief. And I think this is why people see signs or people have vivid dreams. It's like the veil speaker-0: Right. Yeah. speaker-1: between you and source consciousness or God is, it's so incredibly thin. You know, it's so incredibly thin. So tap into your intuition, tap into your meditation, tap into, you know, even when you're sleeping, just try and like focus on your breath because that veil is so thin for at least for the first first year. ⁓ So if if you're not into your meditation, it's perfect time to do it. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Meditation has worked for me wonders as well. And I never did it before my daughter passed. So speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. It's a it is an amazing tool. speaker-0: Yeah. Well let me ask you, I like to ask this at the end 'cause it's the aha podcast. ⁓ what you say is your biggest aha moment through your grief journey, I know there's probably a lot. speaker-1: is a lot. I'm just trying to single it out to one. I think yeah, like I before, it's the embracing of the darkness and the light. And what that means is it's not just be okay with the depths of the places that you go to during your grief process. It's being totally okay when you get those glimmers of hope, peace and joy and being able to welcome those in without guilt. ⁓ Mm-hmm. ⁓ So yeah, it's just for me a hundred percent it's yeah, welcoming the darkness and the light. speaker-0: That's such a good one. Yeah, I love that. And you need to experience both. I always think of the analogy of a masterpiece of art where if it was just all white, it wouldn't be a beautiful painting. But you throw the dark in it and that's what makes it beautiful or a song. you gotta have the highs and the low notes. everything is that balance, the yin and the yang. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you said that. speaker-1: Hundred percent. speaker-0: Yeah, is there any parting words that you'd like to share maybe to someone who's early on in their grief journey give them ⁓ not that there is an other side that you get to with grief, but ⁓ as they go through this that they can experience joy and still live life and not be stuck in that place that's you know, how do I live? Why did this happen? Why is this my life? speaker-1: Yeah, I think you know it's it's terrifying. It's grief is terrifying. speaker-0: Yeah. I speaker-1: And I think sometimes it might and again talking from personal experience, that fear of actually going there in the deepest and darkest of the emotions and that fear that it could kill you. You know, you that's how terrifying it can be. But also there'll be times of numbness where you're not feeling anything. And that's your nervous system protecting you. Do you know what I mean? And I do speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: genuinely believe that you're going be given the bits that you can handle at any given particular time. So ⁓ when get that point where you just like, ⁓ my God, this ⁓ wave is gonna me under, just keep the faith it it won't if you allow to move through you. And like I say, I never in a million years believed that I would find peace and joy again after losing my daughter. And we've had peace and joy only four months after losing my husband and my daughter. And it's not always like that. But it is available to you if you allow it in. speaker-0: Yeah. Hmm, that's so perfectly said. Thank you. So beautiful. I loved this. Thank you so much for doing this. speaker-1: Yeah, you're very welcome. You're very welcome. speaker-0: I'm just so grateful to you for sharing this. speaker-1: it's how I process to be honest. When Madeline died, I set up a private Facebook group because I teaching and that's where I shared everything because it was sensationalised. Like I say, we had a lot of press invasion, of social media stuff. So I processed through sharing so it was mainly in written form. And because obviously there's nothing sensational about a fifty year old man having a heart attack, I've I decided to share a speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: story a little bit wider really because I know how much it helped even people that aren't going through grief, it's sometimes it's a bit of a reality check as well. Because like I look back to that dark night of the soul and I think, ⁓ the stuff I used to get my knickers in a twist now. ⁓ About then, you know what I mean? Yeah. And sometimes we do need a bit of perspective. Because we can get so bogged down, with like minuscule details of life that really in the grand scheme of things speaker-0: We do. speaker-1: Do not matter. speaker-0: So true. That's that is a gift of grief, actually, is putting things into perspective of really what matters and not taking stuff so seriously. speaker-1: No, no, hundred percent, hundred percent. Life's for living. ⁓ speaker-0: It is. I love it. And you're doing it. You're doing it well. Thank you. speaker-1: ⁓ well handed it over to the to be honest now. I've kinda gone, Okay, universe, show me how good life can be. Show me where I'm meant to be. speaker-0: That's amazing. Amazing. I love that. Yeah. Beautiful journey. That's the way to do it. speaker-1: What happens? speaker-0: yeah, this is kind of my therapy with my grief. It's getting to talk to other people who are in it and feeling like I'm sharing something that maybe helps other people. 'Cause I'm about a year and a half now ⁓ into my grief with my daughter and it was my fourteen year old daughter who passed and it was tragic. and sudden and same thing. and I wasn't in a place where where like you had with your yoga and philosophy. I was just, in the corporate grind working and ⁓ we built our dream house. And thought, ⁓ we finally built our dream house. We only were here a year. And ⁓ made it. ⁓ I know exactly. And now after she passed, it was the same thing. I've actually been traveling a lot. That's been kind of healing, but I've started meditating. So this was the life quake, the thing that happened for me that is setting me on this awakening journey and made me have the dark night of the soul because I was in that state where so many women, like you were talking about, are just suppressing that divine feminine and trying to have the masculine and trying to make it in life. And then this happens. And so for me, this was the thing that forced me out of that. And I mean, I quit my job and I'm like, if ⁓ we have to a house, we have to sell a house. I mean, we'll figure it out, but I'm not going to live life that way anymore. speaker-1: The hamster wheel. speaker-0: Exactly. Nope. I'm gonna do the things that light my soul up and I'm gonna let myself feel the grief and cry it out. so I'm learning all these things. Like I love that you've learned them and you've been able to implement them. That's part of my journey. And I've never ⁓ I've never so many of these things. I've never meditated, I've never done psychedelics. Now I've done psychedelics because it actually does help with the PTSD. huge. I'm in for of it because now I just wanna feel it all. Anything that helps me heal. And this is part of it is speaker-1: It cracks you open though, doesn't it? It cracks you open whether it's like you know for me it started with the dark night of the soul and like for others it is the actual big life situation that that cracks you open. But I love Rumi, you know, ⁓ if you've heard of Rumi. I'm Yeah, yeah. It's like ⁓ it what does it say? like the cracks, so the darkness is where the light enters, you know, and when you break, that's when the light enters you. And I just think it's just like one of the most profound quotes. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: you know, and then and I also think as well, 'cause like, you know, some people say it will say to me, I'm not as spiritually advanced as you. I'm like, God Jesus, it's not a bloody competition. But also, I've had people that come my yoga studio and they've just been going, What the hell is this? you know, they're not ready for it, And I've also got people that go, people need to wake up and I'm No We're all here to live our lives on the path that we're ready for. and ⁓ the will only present us with something when we're ready. Yes. And you when like I say, these big life situations come, they crack they literally crack us wide open. and then what happens we energetically, like our vibrational frequency begins to change. And like I mentioned before, we've got that really thin veil. So what generally happens and it doesn't feel like it during grief is that actually we start to vibrate at any really high And what that does then it attracts other things in at a similar high vibrational frequency. So when you start to, meditate, you might find that all of a sudden you've been invited into a women women's drumming circle or do you know what I mean? You might, stumble across something that because they're a similar energetical frequency and now you're attracting those in. Yeah. And if you're vibrating at a low energetical frequency, that stuff's not even gonna present itself to you. And even if it does, you're not gonna like you're not gonna vibe with it. So you know, it only comes to you when you're ready. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's how you kind of figure out your purpose. Like you're figuring out yours is teaching this stuff and spreading this. And you're attracting all the people that are meant to hear it. And With your speaker-1: I remember just before we lost Madeline, So I went off to Thailand and I worked with ⁓ the Jade Sisterhood, who I'm hoping to get back there to do a session on that. and I would say that was what gave me my full-on spiritual awakening. And I'm literally lied on the beach. Now I'm a secret meditator, so I'll just look like I'm sunbathing, but I'm not meditating. I'm not gonna sit there like that on a beach. ⁓ And I'm meditating, and all of a sudden get the most vivid like vision I've ever had in my entire life. it was like a jigsaw puzzle. And it was all the trauma, all the things that happened in my life went ka chunk, ka chunk, chunk chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, and then there was a map that went do do do do do do do do. There to exactly where I was in this moment in time. And that is when I thought everything that's ever happened to me has made me into the woman that I am. It's made me into the teacher that I am. And it's given me my Dharma, my soul's purpose. So it's just wonderful work. And I just want to share it with everybody. They might not be into all the things I share, but I'm also aware of my own limitations in terms of a teacher, you know. So The more access people have to all these other teachers, you know, I can only take people so far. But then, you know, Raj might be able to take them you know somewhere. Swabi Satananda might be able take them somewhere, But yeah, it's just about opening it up to the field really of people that wouldn't normally consider themselves to be able to have access. 'Cause when I first did my yoga teacher training I was overweight. I was in my late thirties. I was a mum of three. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: I was drinking way too much and I'm surrounded by all these amazingly beautiful like you know European girls fresh out of university. I felt like a duck out of water. ⁓ And teachings felt so out there, it's like so for other people and not for me, And I see like I see that version of me and so many people that are on the other end of the screen now. And and I'm like I'm saying this is for you too. This is not just for the ones with the tie-dye. Yeah, this is for speaker-0: yeah, the word needs to spread. More and more people need to start living this kind of lifestyle because it's life speaker-1: percent. I mean every single religious scripture as well has a word for it. So it's called Durka in Hinduism, which is like the veil of illusion. And in Buddhism it's called Maya, which is collective insanity. And in Christianity, it's actually to sin. And we've all been told that to sin means to do something wrong, but it doesn't. If you break it down for ancient Greek, which is what the old testament's written in, it means to miss the mark, like an archer would miss the mark. So we're missing the point of human experience. single religious scripture says the same thing. That we're missing the mark. We're being distracted. ⁓ know, we're being distracted. And this is the way back to it, my belief. ⁓ I've waffled on enough. I've kept you long enough. speaker-0: Yeah. Mm. No, I just love this stuff. Thank you so much. it's truly such an honor to get to have this conversation. And you've opened my eyes to a lot. I'm inspired. I want to go down further on this path and learn more about this. ⁓ speaker-1: Very welcome. speaker-0: ⁓ love it. I love it. Well, I'm excited to see where your adventure takes you if you stay in Bali or what you do. But And you're just starting your day and I'm ending mine. So you go have a fabulous day. ⁓ Yes. Thank you so much, Beck. speaker-1: Yeah, you have a good sleep. It was so lovely to meet you. Take care. speaker-0: Okay, take care, bye-bye.