Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Wholehearted Community: Creating Authentic Connection with Others | Guest Simi John Enneagram Six

Transcript

Wholehearted Community: Creating Authentic Connection with Others | Guest Simi John Enneagram Six · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember sitting on a median that night and just like waiting for my dad to come, but like dreading it.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, he's gonna send me back to India because he's not gonna wanna deal with me.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: My life is over.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just crying.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Even the police officers were like scared to approach me because I was like a hot mess, like just crying, right?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember seeing my dad park his car, and he got out of the car and just ran towards me and picked me up off the media and hugged me.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Are you okay?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he told me to go sit in the car.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take care of everything.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was the first moment I realized my dad doesn't love me because I'm perfect.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: He loves me because I'm his daughter.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friend, we are wrapping up our wholehearted relationship series with a new friend that I've met thanks to Instagram.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, it really does happen.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've popped on here a couple times with friends that we've met through Instagram, chat, posts, sharing, all those fun things.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you just never know what's gonna happen when you hop onto Instagram, right?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my friend Simi John is sharing today.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: She's sharing specifically about community from the perspective of a pastor's wife, a physical therapist, a mom, and anyagram at six.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not to mention, she also loves the word of God and sharing it and teaching it with others.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: She really is amazing.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: She wears a lot of hats, obviously I just rattled off a few to them, and yet she took time on her day off to share and record her thoughts about building authentic community and even building community when it's hard, and you might be scared.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: This conversation is so rich and good.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of gold nuggets here for you to mind for as you listen into the conversation.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna keep this intro short and sweet, and I want us to hop right into hearing the wisdom from Simi John.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, your wholehearted living coach.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that you stopped by to spend some time with me.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are you curious about the Instagram?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to learn about?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where are like weapons that will help you guys?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, friends, you are in the right place.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: For six years, this podcast is focused on joint conversations with my friends about lights and all things anything from the light to know everything at the microphone.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I pray that the word people listen today, and that you would invite your friends and family to join the fun conversation.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to laugh a little and learn a whole lot?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Alrighty, let's get to the conversation.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's the tale of your story?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: What how is that unfolded for you?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's never linear.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's always squiggly.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back, it's a little bit easier to see the steps that the Lord took us on.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: But how are you where you are?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Your pastor's wife, your mom, your physical therapy, right?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have that correct.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're this Bible teacher on Instagram teaching about so many amazing life-changing things for women.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's a lot there.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I always say I wear a lot of hats, but I feel like they're kind of all integrated.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it took me a long time to see that because my identity first and foremost is child of God, right?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so no matter where I go, whether I'm at the church, whether I'm at work or home, I'm exactly the same person.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if I show up online, I'm the same as I am at my house.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it took a long time because it takes a lot of maturity to get there and life experiences and understanding um grace and that we don't have to be perfect and we cannot make our life a performance because nobody's really watching.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're putting that pressure on ourselves.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did that for a long time.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so in my 30s, I'm like, okay, I'm confident in my skin and I can show up as child of God everywhere.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I wear a lot of hats, but I'm the same person.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I get to be pastor's wife at work as a physical therapist.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like yesterday, there was a patient who literally had a car accident in our parking lot.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I saw her walk and she was shaken up.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I've been in a lot of car accidents when I was growing up.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so immediately my heart broke for her.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I noticed she was one of my patients that I had seen in the past.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I went over and I checked in on her.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, hey, are you okay?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Are you hurt?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I checked on her physically, and then immediately I put my arms around her because we've had conversations about faith before.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I prayed for her right then.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, after Emsa took her to the hospital and all that stuff, I called her that afternoon to just check in on her.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Simi, thank you so much for that prayer.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I really need it in that moment.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like I have the ability to do that no matter where I am.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I get to do that for uh the people that go to my congregation, but I also get to do that with my patients.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I get to do that with my kids.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So even though they're all so separate, it's all integrated because I know who I am.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I am a child of God.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, beautifully said.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: What a perfect illustration.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because unto your point, I really do think as women kind of got the easier part of we don't compartmentalize as much.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're really good about integrating things.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the key here for you is you're confident in whose you are.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then that allows the free flow that you're not thinking, who am I here?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who do I have to be for them?
• 6:25
  unknown: Right.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: You just are who you are because you're okay with take it or leave it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for a long time in my life, I made my life about me, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, what is everyone to think of me?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and now I don't.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm one of those people that I'm like, I see the other person first.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what kind of helps me to have that um spirit of servanthood, right?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here to serve.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want my life to impact someone, whether it's a church, whether it's the grocery store, whether it's at the hospital, whether it's at the clinic or online.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm so uh not consumed with myself that I am willing to risk everything for that other person.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like there was a moment in time that the switch happened where some, I don't know, and a lot of times it's a long obedience in the same direction, right?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: But was there something that happened that catapulted or even maybe the brokenhearted moment that led to that wholehearted, I'm gonna put what man thinks of me aside over what is it the Lord says about me and who I am?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, I struggled with my identity probably my entire life.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was born in India, where, you know, everyone looked like me.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And at the age of seven, I moved to Dallas, Texas, where most of the time I was the only person that looked like me.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so wanting to fit in and not wanting to look like the other was always a struggle for me.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the longest time, because of the pressure on the Indian side, where it's all an honor-shame culture where you have to be perfect, you don't talk about your imperfections.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: You want everyone to see your highlight reel all the time, right?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what gives you value and worth.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I played that game for a long time.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was really when I was probably like 18, because I was, you know, I'm a type A, like I can follow all the rules, the directions.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was always well liked.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I remember when I got in my first car accident and I told with my mom's car.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, whoa, I really messed up.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: The car accident was my fault.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't paying attention.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was on the phone with a friend and I hit someone and I ruined their only car.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember hearing that person say, You destroyed the only automobile I have, and thinking, I'm going to hell, because this was the worst thing I've ever done in my life.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And until when I was 18, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm a horrible person.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so scared of how my parents were gonna react because everything was about pleasing people, and I had put this enormous pressure on myself to be perfect.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember sitting on a median that night and just like waiting for my dad to come, but like dreading it.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, he's gonna send me back to India because he's not gonna wanna deal with me.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: My life is over.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just crying.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Even the police officers were like scared to approach me because I was like a hot mess, like just crying, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember seeing my dad park his car, and he got out of the car and just ran towards me and picked me up off the meeting and hugged me, and he was like, Are you okay?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he told me to go sit in the car, I'll take care of everything.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was the first moment I realized my dad doesn't love me because I'm perfect.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: He loves me because I'm his daughter.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the moment I experienced grace.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, for a lot of the things that I've done in life where I feel like a failure, where I feel like, man, I messed up, I need to be perfect for people to like me, to value me, to give me worth.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I go back to that moment and I recognize God loves me, not because I'm perfect, but because I'm his daughter.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that scene of my dad running to grab me, and I think back and I think, and if God loves me in my state of imperfectness, then who cares what anybody else thinks, you know?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So powerful, so beautiful.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm my heart is like, oh that will preach for decades to come and preach to the deepest part of what we do want.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: We want that acceptance in the moment that we screw up and mess up and how beautifully redeeming that absolutely would set your heart in a way that you see whose you are and what matters.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm curious too, like, how does that fold into, you know, you're you're really co-pastoring with your husband?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know we we relegate this title sometimes pastor's wife, but I think you guys really do it as a team.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: How has that impacted your role and even your desire to have a church and have a place where you're you're hoping to impart this truth to those who come?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: That is a great question.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was always a very legalistic person.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I said, I was always like following all the rules, did all the things, always a church.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I remember as like a teenager thinking, these adults, they're they just don't get it, or these people that mess up, they just don't get it, you know?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And now, now that I have lived enough life and made enough mistakes and depend on grace and I understand grace a little bit more, um, I understand that that grace is what's gonna help people want Jesus, not the rules, not the laws, not me being perfect.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had someone at my church one day, you know, I was like, I was at the end of church and I was just passing by.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, you know, I love watching you live your life.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that's a weird thing to say to someone.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, thank you.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do I say?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what am I supposed to say?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes I told my husband, and he was like, that's such a beautiful compliment.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it's a compliment.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't understand.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: She meant he said, you know, I think what she was trying to say is it's people don't really get to see their pastors and pastors' wives live life as human beings, as they make mistakes, as they show grace, as they show up for people in the heart and all those things.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And she gets to see that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And in that, she has a hope that, hey, I can do this.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think for the longest time I grew up, when I was growing up, I was like, I don't want to be a pastor's wife, because my idea was pastors' wives are quiet and perfect and full of grace and calm.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I am none of those things.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna suck at this job, you know?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I realize now, no, what people need is an authentic person to imitate and say, I can do that.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: If she can do that, I can do that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the call of Jesus.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: He comes and he tells these disciples, follow me.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Paul says the same thing, imitate me as I imitate Christ.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I get to live life in a way where people can see Jesus in me, in the good, in the bad, in the hard, I can say, imitate me as I imitate Christ easily.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many things here.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, how do I pick just one?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because really the big picture conversation here is we've been focusing on in this month of February about wholehearted relationships.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously it starts with God.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: You've painted that picture so perfectly, the depiction of you and the father, and then translating it to God our Father, and the acceptance and the love that's there, and how that spills out.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: One of the pieces of the puzzle in having wholehearted relationships is having that relationship with ourselves, having it healthy and whole.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you've mentioned a couple things here that I think are worth pointing out.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: One, your history is that born in India, did grow up in the US after seven.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like a very marked time of life, very formidable moment in life.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what you mentioned is some of the overlays, the cultural overlays.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we've talked about this, how our even Christian culture impacts how we perceive ourselves.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have this go-getter type A personality, very, very uh aware of what people think and also the desire to, I wouldn't even say prove your worth, but to hit a matric.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, for you, how has it been in discovering that you lead from a place of more head?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I anxiety is wrapped up in that.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, it's not just one voice like the inner critic, but it's multiple voices, that inner committee.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about that journey with yourself and the awareness of how God has wired you.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow, that's that's a deep question.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um sorry, I like those.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think for me, I it again, it it takes a lot of maturing.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, when I say maturing, I'm not like, oh, I'm so much more superior.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean like when you face a lot of life experiences, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when you see a lot of people going through hard things, um, and and you're there with them and you're walking that journey, something matures inside of you where you're not just like everything's black and white anymore, you know?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you grow and you understand and you see glimpses of God that you didn't before, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Every every phase in our life does that, like motherhood does that, marriage does that.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think for me, it's just over the years of seeing how bad the world is, and how hard you know, people are dealing with life, the hopelessness, the pain, the rejection, the hard things um that we're all facing uh uh you know, globally with through the pandemic, the loneliness and um people leaving the church, church hurt, seeing all of that and feeling the heart of Jesus to just want to embrace this.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I remember reading through uh Luke, I believe, or Matthew, where it talks about Jesus riding in uh on the donkey, and at the very end of that, he is standing before and he is crying over Jerusalem and he says, How I wish I could just grab you like a mother bird, you know, grabs her uh littles under her wings.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's how I feel.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus' heart is towards the church, towards the world.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can help in that uh through showing grace while preaching truth, um, then I want to do that.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to do that while maintaining uh authority in the word of God, knowing that, hey, God has given me authority regardless of what people say.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there's a lot of things people say within the church and without, you know, outside about women preaching, women leading, and all of that.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I am very aware of that and I face that because I live in the south where it's still very traditional.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but I know that God has called me, he has equipped me, and I have to preach the truth because one day I'll stand before Jesus, and I want to stand before him, squeezed out, like all the gifts, all the moments that he's given me.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can say I have been faithful.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, that's what gives me peace, and that's what gives me confidence, and that's that that's what compels me.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that is so beautiful.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: In in that in all the different roles that you play, again, we've talked about the grace of being able to be all of them in those moments and to be just presented as the Lord is asking you in that moment.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit how learning more about your personality type, how it's impacted your marriage, how motherhood, and then even like as a pastor's wife and carrying out that role.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm a constant warrior.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I worry about everything, um, and I overthink everything.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why did that person say that?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Why didn't they look at me?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that has made my life really hard.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I think the longer I have studied my personality, I have understood it's because um my mind really wants to help me be safe, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: It c it comes from a place of like protection and good, and that's so important to me.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So trust is everything.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's just been really hard to have long-term committed relationships with people, being in ministry and just being hurt because um people hurt you.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, believers, non-believers, it doesn't matter, they're gonna hurt you.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And trust and loyalty is big for me.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so, because of that, for a long time, uh, I mean, the law like until recent years when I really discovered this in my personality, I would just cut people off and not even hold a grudge.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even know how to hold a grudge because I'm such an extrovert.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I will talk to you and I'll I would love to hang out with you, but I won't trust you.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I won't let you in, I will keep you at arm's length because you hurt me and I don't trust you.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes from a place of my mind wants to protect me, my heart wants to make sure that I don't experience that pain again.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I remember a few years back just experiencing an enormous hurt with a church member who just decided to leave the church.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had nothing to do with it without saying anything to me.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had invested so much in her, in her kids.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: We were friends, and she left.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like heartbroken at the way she left.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: She never said goodbye, just blocked me, unfriended me, and all the stuff, you know.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she had her parents do the same thing.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, I didn't even do anything.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just happened to be the pastor's wife, you know?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember just being so hurt and like crying in the car.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm not gonna trust and love anyone again.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I let my heart like love more than I should have.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have to keep everyone at arm's length if I want to sustain in ministry.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember the Holy Spirit just whispering, that's not how I love you.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not, I didn't leave and you know, I didn't do anything.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the Holy Spirit was just like, you reject me, you forget me, you walk past, you know, you go and choose everything for comfort than me.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I still love you, and I don't love you from an arm's length.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love you with everything.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to serve my people, then that is how you have to love my people the way I love you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that has been my motivation because I know I'm gonna get hurt again.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know that people are gonna reject me again.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm gonna walk through that pain and you know that that loneliness again, but I have to remember that God is the defender of my heart and He loves me.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love out of that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wowzers.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I relate to this so well.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a strong six wing at times, in particular regarding relationships.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I I so have sat in that driver's seat too of going, forget it, that's it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not opening my heart again.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love too much, I love too deep.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is way too hard to go through again.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's not what the Lord is asking of us.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and to that point, okay, grew up as a pastor's kid, been in ministry for years myself, not a pastor's wife.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I coach a lot of them though, and I have my own unique church and experience.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: But something that I do think is worth, like just throwing out there because I have a feeling someone's listening today that needs to hear this.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: What does it look like to leave well and honor the community that you are exiting from?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have my thoughts, I have my opinions, but nothing like hearing it from a pastor's wife and a church planter and later.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: That is a great question.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you asked that question.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we actually had one couple, a family we love.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they just said, hey, we would love to have dinner with you.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: We want to come over and we want to have dinner with you.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so we, you know, we got dinner ready, they came, and they were just like, we're really struggling on whether we want to continue coming to church here because we love it here.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: We've made community here, and it's just a distance thing.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like we live like 45 minutes away, and we have, you know, all the stuff is going on with our life, with our kids, and now this is just becoming like a really hard drive for us.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was simple, right?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't a lot of hurt.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we just talked to them, and I was just like, man, thank you for telling us because so many people just pick up and leave.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the church is like a revolving door, and we wonder, like, what happened, you know?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And as a pastor, like my husband is like, is it me?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it my preaching?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something I didn't do?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he has all these things in the back of his head and like a burden for him to bear.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And for us to have that conversation and for them to be totally vulnerable and transparent, that was everything, you know.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they ended up actually, you know, staying at our church and our fully like serving and all of that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember thinking, man, I wish everyone would do that.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I will tell you those people had ministry experience.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: They were, they probably experienced hurt in that way.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they understood, like, I wish somebody would do this for us.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So let's do this for them.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think it comes naturally for us because we're not people who like confrontation.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so we just think, well, I don't want to make them feel awkward.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: This has nothing to do with them, so I'm just gonna leave, right?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna even notice, but we do, and you matter, and your voice is so important to us that we want to hear because that's what helps churches grow.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And now that was like a small example, right?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't a major hurt.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: There was nothing broken there to fix that, you know, could be fixable by us.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I know that no matter what the hurt is, that somebody needs to hear, okay, this is what happened.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: It matters that you don't just disappear, remain anonymous, or be just ghost the church because the church is for you.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is beautiful.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: What a great story.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I wish more like that happened.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and I would just even testify to when it was our season to leave a community that we loved, really invested in, help plant, but there was a chapter that we were in with our kids where it just wasn't going to be working for us.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: But we wanted to be thoughtful, get a gift card to their favorite restaurant, write a note, and say, hey, we'd love to get together.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then getting together was challenging, but eventually we did.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it would just, it was a beautiful opportunity to have honest conversation.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know being a part of also messy uh church innings absolutely happens.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And not everyone's willing to receive, but I would echo your sentiment and say, at least try, because your words do matter.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: They do have value.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about going in and like saying everything is wrong, but it's it's leading with curiosity and also the opportunity to allow the others, the pastors, the staff to be curious with you and go, okay, tell me your story.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we need to give more people credit in the the process of it's it doesn't have to be a major breakup.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: It could just be a hey, a multiplication because we're going on and we're also gonna like if you're going to another congregation, then you're gonna have something to offer there and and be able to multiply what you have learned where you are or where you were.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, absolutely.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for letting me take the conversation there.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like just in my spirit that someone needs to hear that because it does happen and let's do it healthfully.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's, you know, as it happens with friendships, and this is a huge piece of that friendship.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have gone all over the place.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm hoping we have a little bit more time because there's a few more things that I want to get to and finishing, because there's so much.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll kind of get serious at the end so that way you can let, you know, you can take the time to answer how you have time.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: We'll put it that way.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, but first, one of the things again, the theme is wholehearted relationships.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: So some fun rapid-fire questions this month that we've been asking.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we're talking about relationships, connection with God, your marriage, kids, or community.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which one has been the easiest right now for you?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because it changes there's different stages, different seasons, however you want to call it, different chapters.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: What has been the easiest right now?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think connection with God has been the easiest.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm naturally like a person where I, again, going back to because I'm I was raised in the Indian culture, um, where it's like codependent.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so in America, that's seen as like a weakness where, you know, you're raised to be independent.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, natural instinct is to be dependent.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm in a stage right now with everything being a healthcare worker and everything going crazy with that, just feeling super dependent on God.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would say that would be the easiest, and the one that I'm just like, God, I need you, can't do this.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we are the invitation is to grow more dependent.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: I am very opposite of the Western mindset for sure, though.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, I didn't understand that about the Indian culture of being more dependent.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's interesting.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so now the little bit harder question what out of those different relationships are you focusing on growing more this year?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would still say connecting with God because I struggle with that.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm not supposed to say that because I'm a pastor's wife.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest here.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think, you know, I'm trying to get into God's word more and really study God's word.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the crazy thing is, like every time I start studying it, I'm just like, oh, I love this.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can feel the Holy Spirit speaking to me, you know, and then I'm just like, oh, phone and get distracted, right?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I'm really trying to grow in that.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the reasons is because when I feel connected to God in that way, when I set my orientation, my day on the firm foundation, which is God, then all the other relationships are so much better because I'm not striving and I'm not just pouring out and getting burnt out and getting irritable at everybody because I'm doing all the work.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I'm connected to the source, right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm connected to love, joy, peace, kindness, self-control, gentleness, goodness.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so out of him, I'm able to pour all those things into those around me.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: So my relationships with them flourish too.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you said it.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, another fun question, or I would say it's it's more fun.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you're getting to hang out with friends, what's your favorite thing to connect over or place to meet up?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, I love food.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So my dad was a chef.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love cooking.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so any, I love trying different types of food.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: So anywhere, anything that has to do with food, I'll be there.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll meet you.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And let's just go.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oklahoma's not that far from Kansas City.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have a meetup.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: That is true.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how you feel about barbecue, but we got some amazing places.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I love barbecue.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm impressed.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a date.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's a date.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we gotta do it.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: All right, well, kind of an as we're finishing up, a few things that I wanted to just submit to you and see how the Lord wanted to answer it through you.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you feel, first of all, how church and community are linked?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's really the emphasis here.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Church is community, community is church.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And community can also be a bigger picture.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: It can be where you live, it can be your neighborhood, it can be your pickleball group, your book club.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: But how are those specifically linked up?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe even those who are struggling to find or build a community, what advice and wisdom would you pass on to us?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll start with the second question.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I have experienced loneliness a lot of times in my life.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an extrovert, I do a lot of things.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So people think like I know everyone.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I may feel like I know everyone too, but I feel like because I have been so good at cutting people out of my life because of the lack of trust and loving them from a distance for such a long time, I don't really have a long-term like friendships that I can look back to and be like, we've been friends since the third grade or since high school.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have that.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like every season of my life, I created new friends.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I wonder if it's because, you know, at the age of seven, I left everyone and had to move and create new friends, and that just became a part of like the rhythm of how I did friendships.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've experienced loneliness because of that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Feeling like, does anyone really know me?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Does anyone really care about me?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: That do are they thinking about me?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do they love me?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I would say if you resonate with that, um, let your loneliness lead you to Jesus.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's very easy for that loneliness to lead us to unhealthy relationships and toxic places where you end up just feeling more empty.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if you let that loneliness lead you to Jesus and you feel fulfilled and satisfied in him, I absolutely will attest to the fact that he will bring those healthy relationships in the right time for you.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because God created us for relationships.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: The reason that we feel loneliness and it's a bad thing is because we are made in the image of God and God exists in the triune, like Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, right?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so we are wired for community.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be with people, and he sees that desire.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's his desire in you.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when we bring that to Jesus, he will bring the right people for you at the right time.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then going back to your first question about linking the church and community.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I, you know, for me, I love the local church for so many reasons.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll make this really quick.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: My testimony is really, really long.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I grew up in a house where my dad was an alcoholic and very abusive to my mom physically.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like the seven or eight-year-old pulling my dad off my mom at night so he'd stop beating her.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember just thinking, like, you know, this might be normal.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea what happens in other people's houses, but for the Indian culture, a part of it was normal, right?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, men can do whatever.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I kept that as a secret because we couldn't go and tell anybody because that would bring shame to the family.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I carried that, and that was a lot of hard that I carried for a long time where I was the protector for my mom, and I lived in this place of just darkness, right?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And fear and anxiety.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I remember going to this church service where I saw people worship and sing songs and pray.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I had never been to a service like that, and I was just looking around at the faces of the people there, and I saw joy.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I felt peace, I sensed hope.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that day I gave my life to Jesus without anyone sharing the gospel.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I don't know what you have, but I know I don't have it, and I desperately need it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the day hope was birthed in me, that there could be something better for my family.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: This doesn't have to be the normal.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so my brother later got saved.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: My younger brother got saved at a church, and then there was a pastor of the local church that came to my dad and shared the gospel with him for months and months and months.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, my dad gave his life to Jesus.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: My dad became the husband my mom needed, the father we needed, my brother and I, who became an evangelist, traveling the world even now with the gospel message.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my brother went on to be a pastor, I'm married to a pastor, and so I I love the local body because it was the church where I found hope and peace and joy that stood in the gap for me when I didn't know how to pray, prayed for my family and changed the trajectory of our future.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I will always be on the side of the church.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I would always fight for her.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I will always tell people the local church is the hope of the world because I lived it.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's my life experience.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know it's hard.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: I say all of that and I say it's hard because I have experienced hurt as a member of a church and as a leader of the church.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: But that does not take away from the power of the church.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to encourage you, who wherever you are, whether you are new to the faith, whether you've been going to church forever, or whether you're saying no, it's it's too bad, I don't want that.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to know, and this is something I always say, Jesus just didn't die to save you from your sin.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: He died to graft you into family with other people so that you can have godly community.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want you to miss out on that.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because as we live out our Christian faith among people who are imperfect, people who hurt us, that's when we grow into the image of Christ and we become sanctified.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: As iron sharpens iron, we grow into the image of Jesus and know him more and love him more.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can't think of a better way to finish this, Simi.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I know that this comes authentically from your heart.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is gonna just minister to someone so powerfully today.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I also have no doubt if my friends have not met you before, they are gonna want to get to know you better.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe give me a quick or give them a quick little direction of where to learn more and just connect with you further.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I am on Instagram.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's my favorite place to hang out on the internet.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's at Simijohn.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can also go to simijohn.tv for some free resources.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have a book, um, a devotional that I wrote uh called I Am Not available on Amazon.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the video teaching of that devotional is on RightNow Media.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have membership to RightNow Media, you can watch I Am Not video series there too.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is a fabulous resource.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I have no doubt my friends are gonna want to get their hands on it.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Simi, thank you for not just your time, but willing to share your heart so vulnerably.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: This was really powerful.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of moments here that I know some woman listening is gonna just take it and it's gonna change the trajectory of her life.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, wasn't that so rich?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just love the unique perspective that Simi has and building community and her passion for community.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's just really remarkable to continue to meet people throughout this world whose heartbeats the same for wholeheartedness in Christ and wholeheartedness in all the relationships, including community.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, friend, I don't know if the local church has been a painful place for you.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know these last few years have really shaken up a lot of things for many of us, and not only in our relationships, but maybe even as it's related to the local church body.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where you are, but I want you to hear that you aren't alone, and I totally get it.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: We've had our own unique journey as a family, and it's nuanced and unique and sometimes painful and messy.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the way of things.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Churches, well, they're just run and led and filled with a bunch of humans.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's bound to happen, right?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to encourage you today.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where you are on your journey and I don't know what your community looks like, but I guess I want to leave you with the fact of I don't want you to give up.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want you to let discouragement or poor experiences in the past to prevent you from stepping in faith to build the friendships and the community that you do need.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: We were designed for relationship.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: We were designed to not do this life alone, especially our faith in Christian life.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you what a world of difference it's made when I have prayer-filled, spirit-filled friends and community who are walking alongside me in all the craziness that life holds.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, besides going and learning more from Simi John on Instagram and all the different ways to follow her, I'll put those in the show notes.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to highlight someone special who might be the right guide for you.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in a season of transition and you're trying to figure out how to engage with the local church right now or how you even feel, maybe you've been wounded severely, or maybe there's just a lot of minor hurts that have added up.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, my friend Brian Lee, you've met him on the summit before and I've shared his information.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: He has developed an amazing cohort group that goes through the healing steps as it relates to church hurt.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'll put the links in the show notes for his Broken and Beloved cohort.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's called Through, Going from Broken to Beloved, something to that effect.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful title, and Brian Lee has a beautiful heart.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love his tenderness and his care, and he has been where you are.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in need for this, he is a guide to have by the side.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to give an actionable resource.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you've listened to this and well, it just feels like you need some extra help in this area.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you're not a lone friend, and there are tools and resources I would love for you to maybe take advantage of right now.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: All right, friend, we're gonna continue amazing conversations all through the spring.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Next month we're starting off a foundation series, and we're kicking it off with our friend of the podcast, Tyler Zach.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's a pastor, Enneagram coach, and really an extraordinary Enneagram 3 who loves to talk with me about should Christians use the Enneagram.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a hot topic because, well, there's new accusations that aren't really new, they're old, about the Enneagram being demonic.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, right?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, Tyler Zach and I really do love to have conversations around this topic, so we are sharing a special episode with you that kicks off the Simply Wholehearted Foundations episode starting next month in March.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Alright?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, friend, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply, wholehearted life.