Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / #HURDLEMOMENT: Dr. Will Cole On Healing the Shame-Fueled Relationship Between What You Eat & How You Feel

Transcript

#HURDLEMOMENT: Dr. Will Cole On Healing the Shame-Fueled Relationship Between What You Eat & How You Feel · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: You can't heal a body you hate.
0:15
Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, everyone, Emily Abadi here you are listening to
0:19
Speaker 2: another installment of Hurdle Moment from Hurdle.
0:22
Speaker 3: A wellness focused podcast.
0:23
Speaker 2: Reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts
0:27
Speaker 2: and industry CEOs about their highest ties, toughest moments, and
0:31
Speaker 2: everything in between. We all go through hurdles in life,
0:34
Speaker 2: and my goal through these discussions is to empower you
0:37
Speaker 2: to better navigate yours and move with intention so that
0:41
Speaker 2: you can stride towards your own big potential and of
0:44
Speaker 2: course have some fun along the way. For today's episode,
0:48
Speaker 2: I am chatting with doctor Will Cole. He's a leading
0:52
Speaker 2: functional medicine expert who consults people around the world via webcam,
0:57
Speaker 2: having started one of the first function medicine telehealth centers
1:02
Speaker 2: in the world. Named one of the top fifty functional
1:05
Speaker 2: and integrative doctors in the nation, doctor Cole specializes in
1:09
Speaker 2: clinically investigating underlying factors of chronic disease and customizing a
1:14
Speaker 2: functional medicine approach for thyroide issues, autoimmune conditions, hormone imbalances,
1:19
Speaker 2: digestive disorders, and brain problems. Now he's also the host
1:23
Speaker 2: of the popular podcast, The Art of Being Well and
1:27
Speaker 2: an author. He's got a new book coming out this
1:29
Speaker 2: month and it is all about exactly what we are
1:32
Speaker 2: here to chat about today, that is your gut.
1:36
Speaker 3: The book is called Gut Feelings. I will link to
1:38
Speaker 3: it in.
1:39
Speaker 2: The show notes so that you can pre order it,
1:40
Speaker 2: which I can almost guarantee is something that you will
1:44
Speaker 2: be doing once you listen to this conversation. Doctor Cole
1:48
Speaker 2: is a wealth of knowledge. He gives us the lowdown
1:51
Speaker 2: on everything from good for you foods that can help
1:54
Speaker 2: your gut, all the info we need on the brain
1:58
Speaker 2: gut connection, and a large part of our conversation centers
2:03
Speaker 2: around the term he coined called shame flammation. Now, shameflammation
2:08
Speaker 2: can be the reason for chronic health conditions such as
2:11
Speaker 2: autoimmune disorders, leaky gut IBS, and other GI disorders. Not
2:15
Speaker 2: the good news is that it is possible to heal
2:18
Speaker 2: the connection between the physical and mental with good food
2:22
Speaker 2: and somatic practices that support a healthy gut and brain.
2:25
Speaker 2: And that is exactly with Doctor Cole and I get
2:28
Speaker 2: into today again jam packed episode, so grateful for doctor
2:33
Speaker 2: Cole's expertise and a reminder I will link his new
2:36
Speaker 2: book Gut Feelings in the show notes.
2:39
Speaker 3: If you aren't doing so yet, make sure you follow
2:41
Speaker 3: Hurdle over on social media.
2:43
Speaker 2: Over at Hurdle Podcast, I am over at Emily A
2:45
Speaker 2: Body and Los Angeles.
2:47
Speaker 3: I am coming for you.
2:48
Speaker 2: The link right now is live for our runner safety
2:52
Speaker 2: Conversation I'm going to be hosting next week on Wednesday,
2:55
Speaker 2: March fifteenth in Venice. If you are local, I would
2:58
Speaker 2: absolutely love to see you there. If you're not yet
3:01
Speaker 2: subscribed to the weekly Hurdle newsletter, what you're waiting for
3:05
Speaker 2: the link to subscribe. It's absolutely free. As in the
3:09
Speaker 2: show notes. That's it for now. With that, let's get
3:12
Speaker 2: to it.
3:13
Speaker 4: Let's get to hurdling.
3:29
Speaker 3: Today.
3:30
Speaker 2: I'm sitting down with doctor Will Cole. He's a New
3:32
Speaker 2: York Times bestselling author. He's also a.
3:35
Speaker 3: Leading functional medicine expert. How are you doing today.
3:39
Speaker 1: My goodness, thanks so much for having me. I'm doing well.
3:41
Speaker 1: I'm doing well in between consulting patients, and I'm happy
3:45
Speaker 1: to be here with you.
3:46
Speaker 2: It always amazes me like I feel as though not
3:49
Speaker 2: to compare here, but I feel as though I don't
3:51
Speaker 2: have time in the day, And then I sit down
3:53
Speaker 2: with an expert like you, and You're like, I was
3:55
Speaker 2: just like helping people make very important life decisions consult
4:00
Speaker 2: their health, and now I'm making time to do this
4:02
Speaker 2: podcast like nothing going on.
4:04
Speaker 3: Really.
4:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been doing it for thirteen years, so I'm
4:08
Speaker 1: used to the yin and yang of it. I love it.
4:11
Speaker 1: It's like it's like the rhythm of my day. But yeah,
4:14
Speaker 1: it definitely holds space for some heavy stuff sometimes. But
4:17
Speaker 1: it's certainly it's a sacred responsibility for me. It kind
4:20
Speaker 1: of lights me up to really figure out difficult, complex problems.
4:24
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's so normal for me. I don't even
4:27
Speaker 1: think about it, but maybe to the outside world is
4:31
Speaker 1: quite strange.
4:33
Speaker 2: So you have been doing this for a good amount
4:35
Speaker 2: of time. You're also a podcaster yourself. You have a
4:38
Speaker 2: show called The Art of Being Well. Talk to me
4:41
Speaker 2: a little bit about what it's been like to strengthen
4:44
Speaker 2: that muscle to be having these conversations out of what
4:48
Speaker 2: is your office and now behind the microphone.
4:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think I've been doing telehealth for thirteen years,
4:55
Speaker 1: so I'm used to talking when you're not in the
5:00
Speaker 1: same room with somebody, So there's a different level of
5:02
Speaker 1: like holding space and reading the room proverbially and the
5:06
Speaker 1: resonance of it, I guess of talking to somebody. And
5:11
Speaker 1: I think my consultation skills really lends itself to conversations
5:17
Speaker 1: for people that aren't patients, right, because you're you're being
5:20
Speaker 1: a I have to be clinical investigator, so I have
5:22
Speaker 1: to ask questions. I have to like dig deeper. I
5:24
Speaker 1: have to like read between the lines sometime and know
5:28
Speaker 1: one to give and take and listen and speak. So
5:31
Speaker 1: I think that that is a skill set that's honed
5:33
Speaker 1: in over thirteen plus years talking to thousands of people,
5:37
Speaker 1: you know, off of people watching it because it's all
5:40
Speaker 1: patient confidentiality stuff. But you know, I think that's the
5:44
Speaker 1: podcast is so easy for me because of that. We're
5:46
Speaker 1: actually talking about fun stuff, fascinating stuff, science stuff, health stuff,
5:50
Speaker 1: wellness stuff, life stuff. Before my podcast, The Art of
5:54
Speaker 1: Being Well, I hosted a podcast called Goopfellas, which was Goops,
5:57
Speaker 1: which is Gwyneth Palch's company. Their first spinof podcast was
6:00
Speaker 1: called Goop Fellas, which was like, we did that for
6:04
Speaker 1: about a year or so as like a special one
6:05
Speaker 1: off podcast. And so this is the Art of Being
6:08
Speaker 1: Well is technically my second podcast.
6:11
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So you've been doing all of this for
6:13
Speaker 2: a minute, is what I'm gathering here. And you also
6:16
Speaker 2: know the benefit of listening, right because for you, it's
6:19
Speaker 2: so critical to listen to your patients so that you
6:22
Speaker 2: can fully understand what they're going through and then you
6:24
Speaker 2: can execute on your skill set.
6:26
Speaker 3: So really it does all kind of go hand in
6:28
Speaker 3: hand together.
6:29
Speaker 1: It does. It does. Basically what I'm saying is every podcaster,
6:32
Speaker 1: if they're good at it, they don't know they could
6:34
Speaker 1: really do a consultation really well.
6:35
Speaker 2: If they're a good listener, you might need a little
6:40
Speaker 2: bit of education.
6:41
Speaker 1: Yes, today it's a little bit more.
6:43
Speaker 2: So talk to us a little bit about your background then,
6:46
Speaker 2: before we dive into what I'd love to focus on
6:48
Speaker 2: here today, talking about the gut reverencing your upcoming book,
6:53
Speaker 2: Gut Feelings, Healing the shame fueled relationship between what you
6:57
Speaker 2: eat and how you feel. So before we get into
6:59
Speaker 2: the gut and this book and all the excitement, talk
7:02
Speaker 2: to us a little bit about what made you want
7:05
Speaker 2: to get into the field of medicine.
7:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was, I guess, in hindsight, a really
7:11
Speaker 1: weird kid. I My first job was at finish line
7:15
Speaker 1: at the mall. And I used to sell like tennis
7:17
Speaker 1: shoes as a sixteen year old, and I'd use my
7:20
Speaker 1: paycheck to go to the food health food store and
7:24
Speaker 1: buy the latest superfood I'd read about the latest like
7:27
Speaker 1: supplement herb that I read about. And I was biohacking
7:31
Speaker 1: before biohacking was a thing, and I just was a
7:33
Speaker 1: weird kid. I'd packed my lunches with like bell peppers
7:37
Speaker 1: and just like eat whole bell peppers as my lunch,
7:40
Speaker 1: not what other teenagers are doing. And I realized that
7:43
Speaker 1: in hindsight that wow, like that is strange, but I
7:46
Speaker 1: think that formed a lot of theo's are formative times
7:49
Speaker 1: in our lives, right. And I really was just a
7:51
Speaker 1: passionate about researching, and if you know anything about the
7:55
Speaker 1: Enneagram personality thing type, I'm an Enneagram five W, which
8:00
Speaker 1: is a researcher. And that served me well with my
8:02
Speaker 1: job and just kind of like just double down on
8:04
Speaker 1: things that I'm passionate about, and that evolved in too
8:08
Speaker 1: me want to be formally trained in this. So I
8:10
Speaker 1: went to an integrated medicine school called Southern California University
8:13
Speaker 1: of Health Sciences outside of LA and just learned all
8:17
Speaker 1: about clinical nutrition and functional medicine and being trained there formally,
8:22
Speaker 1: and I graduated knowing I wanted to be really focused
8:25
Speaker 1: in functional medicine, and yeah, the rest is what I've
8:29
Speaker 1: been doing for the best thirteen years. My day job.
8:31
Speaker 1: We started a telehealth centered thirteen years ago. It's the
8:34
Speaker 1: first really in the world in functional medicine, but we
8:37
Speaker 1: didn't have the language for functional medicine back then. We
8:39
Speaker 1: would call it. We call it a virtual functional Medicine center.
8:43
Speaker 1: That's in my mind how I described in words what
8:46
Speaker 1: we were doing. Then telehealth became a thing later on
8:49
Speaker 1: in life, I said, oh, that's what I've been doing
8:51
Speaker 1: all this time. So it's just people in different states
8:53
Speaker 1: and countries that needed access to this exciting field of healthcare,
8:56
Speaker 1: like how do we figure out what's going on? And
8:59
Speaker 1: functional medicine that the goal of what we do is
9:02
Speaker 1: really get to the root cause, but in an evidence
9:04
Speaker 1: based way. So we want to run more comprehensive labs.
9:07
Speaker 1: You want to look at beyond the surface stuff. And
9:09
Speaker 1: ultimately it's predicated on bioindividuality. We're all different and there's
9:14
Speaker 1: not going to be this cookie cutter, one size fits
9:17
Speaker 1: all approach to getting well, and it's typically a confluence
9:20
Speaker 1: of factors and a confluence of tools that will get
9:23
Speaker 1: somebody better. So it is that's kind of been a
9:26
Speaker 1: nutshell how I got to where I'm at and how
9:29
Speaker 1: we do things in functional medicine.
9:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and God, there's so many people listening to this
9:34
Speaker 2: right now who cannot even think about or imagine what
9:38
Speaker 2: the last few years specifically would have been like without telehealth.
9:43
Speaker 2: As a practitioner within that space, how has maybe your
9:47
Speaker 2: viewpoint or what you've had to navigate over the last
9:51
Speaker 2: few years informed you on where we go now?
9:55
Speaker 1: For me, you know a lot of my colleagues they
9:59
Speaker 1: had to pivot p quickly right over when you're talking
10:01
Speaker 1: about twenty twenty and beyond, you know, years later now,
10:05
Speaker 1: it's like they had to figure things out overnight. How
10:07
Speaker 1: do we get do our what we do in a
10:12
Speaker 1: tech way? You know, I just it was it was
10:16
Speaker 1: a blessing for us in the sense that we had
10:18
Speaker 1: always been doing it, so our day we didn't change.
10:21
Speaker 1: I know that we are so blessed in privileged, Like
10:24
Speaker 1: so many people's lives changed when it came to their
10:27
Speaker 1: job and their life and how they did things twenty
10:31
Speaker 1: twenty and beyond other than me not traveling for work
10:33
Speaker 1: because I would travel to speak at different things. That's
10:36
Speaker 1: the only thing that changed my day job literally changed over.
10:39
Speaker 1: Like I have a long standing I have a long
10:41
Speaker 1: term relationship with Zoom, Like Zoom has been my friend
10:44
Speaker 1: for a long time, and like twenty twenty game, I'm like, hey,
10:47
Speaker 1: I've always been on Zoom, So it's that's kind of
10:51
Speaker 1: where does it go from here? I think what I
10:54
Speaker 1: really loved about the silver lining and such a devastating
10:58
Speaker 1: time in human history, I think was people learning that
11:03
Speaker 1: we could reimagine how we did things and how we
11:07
Speaker 1: used to do things wasn't always the most efficient. How
11:10
Speaker 1: we were doing things wasn't the most effective always, and
11:14
Speaker 1: people like thought they had to go drive to the
11:16
Speaker 1: gym and wait in traffic and park and go in.
11:19
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh no, how can we move our
11:22
Speaker 1: bodies in our homes? Like how can we be effective
11:24
Speaker 1: and be more efficient? Or like with a doctor, like
11:28
Speaker 1: can we we can do what we've always done here?
11:31
Speaker 1: But people now realize, oh, it's a thing like telehealth,
11:33
Speaker 1: it's a thing I can I can go and see
11:35
Speaker 1: my doctor with in my pajamas at eight o'clock in
11:38
Speaker 1: the morning while I'm sipping coffee, and that's not a
11:40
Speaker 1: bad thing. That's a better use of your time thing.
11:43
Speaker 1: And actually, in my way that we model things in
11:46
Speaker 1: functional medicine, it's very more immersive, right. It's this It's
11:50
Speaker 1: like having a doctor in your own living room because
11:53
Speaker 1: we're there with everybody, because we have more of a
11:55
Speaker 1: concierge telehealth model, right, you know.
11:59
Speaker 2: And the thing that I want to make sure that
12:01
Speaker 2: we touch on is the concept of functional medicine, right,
12:04
Speaker 2: different than other practice, other areas of medicine.
12:07
Speaker 3: Functional medicine.
12:08
Speaker 2: It's just so interesting because I believe, as you put it,
12:11
Speaker 2: like you're really getting to the root of the problem, right,
12:13
Speaker 2: Like why are you ill? It's not like like, oh
12:16
Speaker 2: I'm here, I'm telling you I have a headache and
12:18
Speaker 2: you're like, here, have some ibuprofen. You are going to
12:22
Speaker 2: ask about all of these other factors that play into
12:26
Speaker 2: what you may actually have a headache. So why did
12:30
Speaker 2: you decide that functional medicine was where it was at
12:34
Speaker 2: for you?
12:36
Speaker 1: I'm just I think I have more of an engineering
12:40
Speaker 1: mind in that way where I want to get to
12:42
Speaker 1: the root cause of it. To me, it's like there's
12:43
Speaker 1: a time and place like you mentioned, like the ibuprofen.
12:47
Speaker 1: If I have a headache, there's no shame in taking
12:49
Speaker 1: ibuprofen and it.
12:49
Speaker 3: So totally yeah.
12:50
Speaker 1: But if somebody's like having headaches day in, day out,
12:54
Speaker 1: what's the sustainability of that, Like is that going to
12:57
Speaker 1: be hard on your liver? Is it going to be
12:58
Speaker 1: hard on your digestive system? Well, yeah, chronic use of
13:01
Speaker 1: end sets will do that, So ultimately you don't nobody
13:05
Speaker 1: has a headache to use that example from an end
13:08
Speaker 1: set deficiency. So let's figure out like why we have
13:11
Speaker 1: the inflammation in the first place, to go upstream or
13:14
Speaker 1: to the root of the problem. So to me, as
13:16
Speaker 1: a researcher a problem solver, I just want to get
13:20
Speaker 1: to the figure that out. And it's interesting our top
13:23
Speaker 1: patient base at the telehealth center here, it's like our
13:26
Speaker 1: top patient base are people. Nurses are our nurses profession
13:30
Speaker 1: wise our nurses, school teachers and engineers, and I find
13:33
Speaker 1: that they have an all they have common love of
13:35
Speaker 1: getting to the root cause of Excel spreadsheets, tracking data,
13:39
Speaker 1: and like, let's figure out this problem for the teachers'
13:43
Speaker 1: let's let's improve our grade. If we have a bad lab,
13:46
Speaker 1: let's get that lab looking good. So I think it's
13:48
Speaker 1: this common love of saying, like, look, the body's telling
13:51
Speaker 1: us something like what, let's figure this out, Like what's
13:54
Speaker 1: long term? What's the solution here? Like maybe in the
13:57
Speaker 1: short term we need that medication, but in the long like,
14:01
Speaker 1: how do we deal with this? We don't have to
14:03
Speaker 1: be on this pill every day?
14:05
Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely all right. So segueing here into a conversation
14:10
Speaker 2: on the GUT. I realized before we sat down today,
14:12
Speaker 2: and I literally can't believe that I'm saying this. I
14:16
Speaker 2: have never had someone on the show to talk about
14:19
Speaker 2: the gut. I've been doing this for four years, and
14:22
Speaker 2: it actually blows my mind and I'm kind of embarrassed
14:25
Speaker 2: to admit this.
14:26
Speaker 3: So just need to get that off of my chest.
14:28
Speaker 2: But what I will move forward and say is that
14:30
Speaker 2: it is obviously very important. It is something that I
14:34
Speaker 2: feel like we cannot escape from when it comes to
14:36
Speaker 2: the day to day news cycle. The buzziest articles, the
14:39
Speaker 2: buzziest topics are people talking about all things gut and
14:43
Speaker 2: how it interplays into every aspect of our life.
14:46
Speaker 3: So let's start there.
14:49
Speaker 2: Why is it important to prioritize the well being of
14:53
Speaker 2: your gut.
14:54
Speaker 1: Well, I feel honored the fact that this is the
14:57
Speaker 1: first conversation. I mean, I feel like this is good
15:00
Speaker 1: and we're going to get way beyond the basics here.
15:02
Speaker 1: I mean, people know about gut health. I'll touch on
15:04
Speaker 1: the basics, but like I just want, I have so
15:07
Speaker 1: much to talk about. Your gut and brain are formed
15:09
Speaker 1: from the same fetal tissue. So when babies are growing
15:12
Speaker 1: in their mother's womb, all of us right we were growing.
15:15
Speaker 1: Our gut and brain are formed from that same tissue,
15:17
Speaker 1: and it's inextricably linked for the rest of our life
15:21
Speaker 1: through what's known in the research in the scientific literature
15:24
Speaker 1: as the gut brain axis, or the connection between the
15:27
Speaker 1: gut and the brain. So if you think about it,
15:29
Speaker 1: the intestines kind of even resemble the brain. So ninety
15:33
Speaker 1: five percent of saratnin shockingly, ninety five percent of our
15:36
Speaker 1: happy neurotransmitter is made in the gut, stored in the gut.
15:40
Speaker 1: Fifty percent of dopamine, our pleasure neurotransmitter, is made in
15:44
Speaker 1: the gut, stored in the gut. So there's a lot
15:46
Speaker 1: of far reaching implications both from a neurotransmitter production standpoint,
15:50
Speaker 1: but also the bacteria in our gut. We have upwards
15:53
Speaker 1: of one hundred trillion bacteria known collectively as the microbiome.
15:57
Speaker 1: The sort of this microbiometropolis gut garden that influences digestion
16:02
Speaker 1: but also influences neuro transmitter also influences how hormones are converted,
16:07
Speaker 1: like the thyroid hormone, and it converts so many things
16:11
Speaker 1: in the body sore from the bacteria to the neurotransmitter production.
16:15
Speaker 1: Two seventy five percent of the immune system is in
16:19
Speaker 1: originating in the gut. Inflammation is a product of the
16:23
Speaker 1: immune system. Just about every health problem under the sun
16:26
Speaker 1: is inflammatory in nature, from autoimmune problems, many hormone problems,
16:30
Speaker 1: metabolic issues, weight less resistance, type two diabetes, to the
16:33
Speaker 1: biggest killers in our society like heart disease and cancer too.
16:38
Speaker 1: As I talked about in Gut Feelings, this field of
16:41
Speaker 1: research called the cytokine model of cognitive function. Cytokines are
16:45
Speaker 1: pro inflammatory cells. It's research looking at how does inflammation
16:50
Speaker 1: impact how our brain works, how does inflammation impact mental health?
16:53
Speaker 1: And really having a conversation in the book, we like
16:57
Speaker 1: to separate in the West, mental health from physical health,
17:01
Speaker 1: but in reality, mental health is physical health. Our brain
17:04
Speaker 1: is a part of our body just as much as
17:06
Speaker 1: anything else. So it's really a conversation of this gut
17:10
Speaker 1: feeling connection because it's one thing to say, what inflammation's
17:13
Speaker 1: the commonality of these different health problems, but then it's
17:17
Speaker 1: the commonality ultimately, something's causing a dysregulation of the inflammation
17:22
Speaker 1: levels in the body. Because inflammation is inherently bad. It's
17:25
Speaker 1: a product of the immune system. It's meant to fight
17:27
Speaker 1: off viruses and kill off bacteria. But what's causing chronic
17:31
Speaker 1: inflammation that's sort of that forest fire that's burning in perpetuity.
17:35
Speaker 1: That's the problem, that's the link between all these health problems.
17:38
Speaker 1: So what is causing the inflammation? And that's really what
17:40
Speaker 1: I'm exploring, And gut feelings, both the gut and the feelings,
17:44
Speaker 1: the physiological and the psychological, the physical stuff and the mental, emotional,
17:48
Speaker 1: spiritual stuff. Both of these facets are what's causing the
17:53
Speaker 1: chronic inflammation that we are that's plugging our society day
17:56
Speaker 1: And there's so much gut centric components to all of that.
18:00
Speaker 1: So yes, it's way more than just going to the bathroom,
18:03
Speaker 1: Like going to the bathroom is important, like having normal
18:06
Speaker 1: what we say, like one to two snakes a day
18:09
Speaker 1: on the Bristol chart, Like that's normal as far as
18:11
Speaker 1: you go into the bathroom, But it's so much more
18:14
Speaker 1: than that. It really has far reaching implications totally.
18:17
Speaker 2: And what you're getting at here, and what we're going
18:19
Speaker 2: to continue to talk about is the fact that we're
18:21
Speaker 2: not just talking about like what you're putting into your
18:24
Speaker 2: system in terms of nutrition, We're also talking about your
18:28
Speaker 2: mental emotional state, right, and how that interplays with how
18:33
Speaker 2: your gut functions triggering that inflammation.
18:36
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely so, it's bidirectional and the physical stuff like
18:41
Speaker 1: underlying gut problems, nutrient deficiencies, like chronic infections, like we
18:47
Speaker 1: see a lot of mold toxicity and chronic lyme disease
18:50
Speaker 1: and environmental toxicity. How these physiological things will impact our mood.
18:56
Speaker 1: It'll impact things like anxiety and depression, brain fall and fatigue.
19:01
Speaker 1: But then conversely, as you said, things like chronic stress
19:05
Speaker 1: and trauma and shame, these things will impact our physical health.
19:10
Speaker 1: So for my patients with autoimmune inflammation issues, hormonal problems,
19:14
Speaker 1: menabolic issues, oftentimes we don't give that side of things,
19:18
Speaker 1: the feeling side of things. How can things like past
19:21
Speaker 1: unresolved trauma be impacting the way my metabolism is functioning
19:25
Speaker 1: the way to impact in my digestion now, So it is.
19:28
Speaker 1: The science is fascinating. It sounds like science fiction, but
19:31
Speaker 1: it's in fact being very well researched in scientific literature
19:35
Speaker 1: and something that I got to write about in gut Feelings.
19:38
Speaker 2: For someone that does really want to work on bettering
19:42
Speaker 2: their gut unlessening that inflammation. I know in the book
19:46
Speaker 2: you provide this framework for us to better understand the
19:49
Speaker 2: gut brain connection and influence that connection for the better.
19:52
Speaker 3: So where does someone begin.
19:54
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think, first of all, I think
19:57
Speaker 1: taking inventory of your health I think is a good
19:59
Speaker 1: place to start, because many people don't really know there's
20:04
Speaker 1: a problem, like it's just because something is there every day,
20:08
Speaker 1: they will normalize it for themselves. There's so much like
20:12
Speaker 1: self gaslighting that we do for ourselves where it's like,
20:14
Speaker 1: well we compare ourselves to someone worse offt than us,
20:18
Speaker 1: and that's not that bad. Like I I could go
20:20
Speaker 1: to work, I can like do life if my trauma
20:24
Speaker 1: I don't if my trauma's not bad compared to that person,
20:27
Speaker 1: or my digestion, my health symptoms aren't as bad as
20:29
Speaker 1: that person. So I think, first of all, just having
20:31
Speaker 1: a real conversation is not comparing yourself to other people,
20:35
Speaker 1: but just saying, am I feeling my best? Like? Am
20:38
Speaker 1: I where I want to be? And I think that's
20:42
Speaker 1: our comparison culture, this sort of fomo culture, we have
20:45
Speaker 1: anyways of just like getting out of our own head
20:47
Speaker 1: and be in our bodies and just saying where do
20:50
Speaker 1: we want to be? Be our own and of one
20:52
Speaker 1: experiment and if we're at like a five out of
20:54
Speaker 1: ten energy, like, let's be ten out of ten and
20:57
Speaker 1: not saying, well, yeah, technically you're five out of ten
20:59
Speaker 1: to somebody else's you can get a two out of
21:01
Speaker 1: ten and energy too, But it's ultimately, let's be the
21:04
Speaker 1: best version of you and taking inventory of things like
21:07
Speaker 1: your energy levels, of your sleep, of your sex drive,
21:10
Speaker 1: of your metabolism, of your hair, your skin, your nails.
21:14
Speaker 1: All this stuff's important because we only have one life.
21:17
Speaker 1: So I think just being the best version of ourselves
21:20
Speaker 1: is as a worthy cause and wanting to live the
21:24
Speaker 1: best life you want to live. So that's step number
21:26
Speaker 1: one and then step number two. I mean, that's why
21:28
Speaker 1: I wrote the books, so people to really be empowered
21:30
Speaker 1: to have agency over their health. A lot of these
21:32
Speaker 1: things are free or low cost stuff that they can
21:35
Speaker 1: start integrating into their life and to put together a
21:39
Speaker 1: protocol in the book that's really just what are the
21:41
Speaker 1: top science backed ways to support your gut and support
21:45
Speaker 1: your feelings the physiological and the psychological and lean into it.
21:50
Speaker 1: But you know, if you're looking on the physical side,
21:52
Speaker 1: it starts with food. One of the things that I
21:55
Speaker 1: talk about in the book is something called a GAPS protocol,
21:58
Speaker 1: which is an acronym GAPS. GAPS that stands for gut
22:02
Speaker 1: and psychology syndrome or gut and physiology syndrome. So we
22:06
Speaker 1: use it for different brain health issues like brain fog, fatigue, anxiety,
22:10
Speaker 1: and depression, and gut and physiology syndrome physiologically meaning inflammation. Largely,
22:16
Speaker 1: we deal with a lot of different auto immune inflammation issues.
22:19
Speaker 1: So lots of soups and stews, and I give lots
22:22
Speaker 1: of recipes in the book for people to really kind
22:24
Speaker 1: of nourish their gut, they nourish their second brain, nourish
22:27
Speaker 1: two thirds of their immune system of where inflammations originating
22:31
Speaker 1: to camb like a proverbial siesta for their guts, to
22:34
Speaker 1: repair their gut and kind of reset their gut health
22:37
Speaker 1: in a positive way, which will not only improve their
22:39
Speaker 1: digestion if that's a goal for them, but also the
22:42
Speaker 1: downstream cascade positive ripple effects you're going to have, i e.
22:46
Speaker 1: Improving your brain health, which in communicates through their endocrine
22:49
Speaker 1: system your hormones, which will also impact your systemic inflammation
22:53
Speaker 1: as well. So that's kind of a gut action item.
22:56
Speaker 1: And on a feeling side of it, we talk about
22:58
Speaker 1: things like somatic practice, which the research around that is
23:01
Speaker 1: just fascinating in me of how you could through body
23:04
Speaker 1: movement you can metabolize stored unresolved trauma and things and
23:09
Speaker 1: release things that maybe didn't even know you need to release.
23:12
Speaker 1: And it's something that I talk about in the book,
23:14
Speaker 1: this concept of shameflammation of how things like shame and
23:17
Speaker 1: stress and trauma, how does it impact your body and
23:19
Speaker 1: really clearing out that shameflammation through different physical modalities.
23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel as though someone hears this and
23:28
Speaker 2: their immediate question is Okay, moving my body can help
23:32
Speaker 2: me process things that otherwise would not have been processed.
23:35
Speaker 2: But in what capacity? Right are you? Or does the
23:40
Speaker 2: research say is fifteen minutes a day okay? Is five
23:44
Speaker 2: minutes a day okay? Is walking okay? Or is this
23:46
Speaker 2: something that I really need to pour so much time into?
23:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a great question. I think consistency is key,
23:54
Speaker 1: but you don't have to be and I actually think
23:57
Speaker 1: it's there's diminishing returns actually because the more isn't always
24:01
Speaker 1: better with this stuff. I think for most people, in
24:05
Speaker 1: most cases, consistency with the simple stuff is important, So
24:10
Speaker 1: you don't have to be this eficionado biohacking person, which,
24:14
Speaker 1: like I said, I talk a lot about that in
24:16
Speaker 1: the book, where I think it can become the source
24:18
Speaker 1: of obsession. And I talk a lot about orthorexia, which
24:21
Speaker 1: is disordered eating around healthy foods. And it's in my opinion, yes,
24:25
Speaker 1: orthorexia is more strictly defined as disordered eating around healthy foods.
24:30
Speaker 1: But I think there's this orthorexic umbrella within the wellness
24:33
Speaker 1: community where people can be obsessive about anything within wellness,
24:37
Speaker 1: about exercise, about all the biohacking stuff they're seeing on Instagram,
24:40
Speaker 1: like ultimately shaming your way and obsessing your way into
24:44
Speaker 1: wellness is empathetical to sustainable wellness. So I would say
24:50
Speaker 1: I would not advise people to spend hours on this
24:52
Speaker 1: stuff because I think it's keeping it simple and being
24:56
Speaker 1: consistent with the simple things that are like to you,
24:59
Speaker 1: meaning things that are like actually you enjoy and you
25:03
Speaker 1: can stay consistent with it, and sustainable for you is
25:06
Speaker 1: where the sustainable results come from. Because if it's too much,
25:11
Speaker 1: if like the barrier to entry is so high, you
25:13
Speaker 1: can grit your teeth and like gruelingly put hours into
25:16
Speaker 1: your wellness every day, it's probably going to be unsustainable.
25:20
Speaker 1: But even if it is sustainable, it'll be such a
25:22
Speaker 1: source of dread and negativity and like obsession that it
25:25
Speaker 1: will counteract like any potential benefits. Hypothetically they come along
25:29
Speaker 1: with it. Because I say in the book, you can't
25:31
Speaker 1: heal a body you hate. You cannot shame your way
25:34
Speaker 1: into wellness. So stressing about healthy foods is not good
25:37
Speaker 1: for your health. Stressing about cold plunges and sonnets or
25:40
Speaker 1: whatever like biohacking thing you read online isn't good for
25:44
Speaker 1: your health. So I answer your question more pointedly, I
25:47
Speaker 1: would say most of the action items I talked about
25:50
Speaker 1: in the book are about fifteen minutes, if that fifteen thirty minutes,
25:53
Speaker 1: it's really nothing long.
25:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I also love like the point that you're
25:58
Speaker 2: driving home aboutcusing on your own journey and not comparing
26:02
Speaker 2: it to that of whomever you may be scrolling by
26:05
Speaker 2: on the internet. Right, because what feels good for you
26:08
Speaker 2: in your body, paying attention to that is just so
26:11
Speaker 2: important compared to just doing something because you feel as
26:14
Speaker 2: though you're supposed to be doing it.
26:17
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it is so true. And also what serves you
26:20
Speaker 1: today or what is light to you today isn't necessarily
26:24
Speaker 1: what you always have to do. So it's another message
26:27
Speaker 1: in the book. It's like it's okay to pivot, it's
26:29
Speaker 1: okay to evolve, it's okay to self experiment, and your
26:32
Speaker 1: tools within your d wellness toolbox should involve over time,
26:37
Speaker 1: and you may pick some other things up as you
26:38
Speaker 1: learn more. You may take some things out because they
26:41
Speaker 1: served you for a season but not anymore. So I
26:43
Speaker 1: think that's another source of shame inflammation. Many people find
26:47
Speaker 1: themselves too. They may think, oh, I eat this certain
26:49
Speaker 1: way and like it becomes an identity, but then like
26:52
Speaker 1: I see a lot this with vegans and vegetarians and
26:54
Speaker 1: even keto people and like these carnivore people, like it's
26:57
Speaker 1: like their identity is in this sort of food tribalism,
27:00
Speaker 1: which I really go hard at in the book to
27:03
Speaker 1: just say like that's not that's best necessarily the healthiest
27:06
Speaker 1: way to be defined, and it's okay to pivot and
27:08
Speaker 1: evolve and just like learn over time. And there's so
27:13
Speaker 1: much health related shame when it comes to food in
27:15
Speaker 1: people's body that is just again very counterproductive when you're
27:20
Speaker 1: talking about sustainable wellness.
27:22
Speaker 2: So I know, we started off talking about the mind
27:24
Speaker 2: gut connection. We talked about what you reference to be
27:28
Speaker 2: I believe the word is shame inflammation. Beyond shame inflammation
27:33
Speaker 2: and the way that we're talking to ourselves talk to
27:35
Speaker 2: me a little bit about how mindfulness can actually also
27:38
Speaker 2: be beneficial when it comes to taking care of our
27:41
Speaker 2: gut health.
27:42
Speaker 1: Wow, it's huge. I mean, these are like I talked
27:45
Speaker 1: in the book about like feeding your gut brain access,
27:48
Speaker 1: but also feeding your head in your heart, Like how
27:50
Speaker 1: can you feed both the physiological and the psychological and
27:53
Speaker 1: really realize that I call them metaphysical meals. Like these
27:57
Speaker 1: things we're serving our head in our heart are just
27:59
Speaker 1: as influential on our physiology. I hear physical health as
28:03
Speaker 1: the breakfast, lunch, and dinner and snacks that you're having.
28:06
Speaker 1: But it's a lot more nebulous because that's very black
28:09
Speaker 1: and white and prescriptive for me to say, Okay, these
28:12
Speaker 1: foods are going to disrupt your microbiome, your gun health,
28:14
Speaker 1: like decrease those these foods are going to love you back,
28:17
Speaker 1: like focus on the things that love you back. It's very,
28:19
Speaker 1: very linear. But the side of the feeling, side of
28:23
Speaker 1: gut feelings is a lot more ambiguous in the sense
28:26
Speaker 1: of it's a lot more complex to unpack, where it's
28:28
Speaker 1: you can't tell somebody don't stress and then they stress
28:32
Speaker 1: about not stressing, or you can't tell them not to
28:34
Speaker 1: have the shame or just drop that trauma, like it
28:36
Speaker 1: doesn't work that way. Sadly, it's not a thing, So
28:40
Speaker 1: it's it. But I want, I really wanted to really
28:42
Speaker 1: tackle these complex issues because I see them being lynch
28:45
Speaker 1: pins to people reclaiming their health, so it is something
28:50
Speaker 1: that needs to be addressed. And shameflammation, it's just a massive,
28:54
Speaker 1: massive problem, and there's so much shame around different things
28:59
Speaker 1: like unresolved massive problem with shame. So people have so
29:03
Speaker 1: much shame about it, they don't want to talk it.
29:04
Speaker 1: They can talk about it, they can get defensive about it.
29:06
Speaker 1: They don't know where to start to even deal with
29:09
Speaker 1: it or address it, and that's manifesting in their health.
29:13
Speaker 1: And the science is very very clear that one of
29:16
Speaker 1: the things we ask patients to fill out and we
29:18
Speaker 1: talk about it during their initial telehealth console is an
29:21
Speaker 1: ACE score an adverse childhood experience score, So we're talking
29:25
Speaker 1: about very sensitive, deep things like sexual trauma growing up,
29:29
Speaker 1: physical abuse growing up, neglect growing up, and so much
29:34
Speaker 1: heavy stuff like that. And the higher the acecore, research
29:37
Speaker 1: shows later on in life, we're more likely to have
29:41
Speaker 1: triggered autoimmune inflammation issues or metabolic issues, trouble losing weight
29:45
Speaker 1: or energy issues, chronic fatigue syndrome, and hypervigilant nervous system, anxiety, depression, etc. So,
29:53
Speaker 1: how do we take that and to start that shame
29:56
Speaker 1: inflammation that's manifesting in your health today but it's from
29:59
Speaker 1: stuff in the past. How do we start to shift
30:01
Speaker 1: our immune system i e. Lowering inflammation and our nervous
30:05
Speaker 1: system shifting it into more of a parasympathetic, resting, digesting
30:10
Speaker 1: hormone balance state. So that's shameflammation and action. It's around trauma,
30:15
Speaker 1: but it's also around chronic stress. I think I see
30:17
Speaker 1: a lot of people that in our hustle culture and burnouts,
30:22
Speaker 1: this badge of honor that's sort of deified. When people
30:28
Speaker 1: are chronically stressed to varying degrees, they can feel a
30:31
Speaker 1: lot of shame because they're not the good enough partner
30:34
Speaker 1: because they're not there. They're they're snapping at their kids,
30:38
Speaker 1: they're just irritable. They're not making the right food choices
30:41
Speaker 1: for them, They're eating foods that don't love them back
30:43
Speaker 1: because it's not like going for the easy, quick, convenient stuff.
30:48
Speaker 1: There's a lot of body and health related shame too.
30:51
Speaker 1: So shame flammation is a massive party they talk about
30:53
Speaker 1: in the book, and it's complex, but I really show
30:56
Speaker 1: in the book, like what I've seen with patients, be
30:58
Speaker 1: the most effective tools to sort of decrease that shame
31:03
Speaker 1: inflammation by increasing things that I call acts of stillness,
31:07
Speaker 1: Like what are the things that are supportive of lowering
31:10
Speaker 1: inflammation and increasing the para sympathetic aspect of the autonomic
31:14
Speaker 1: nervous system, like self compassion is a good example. Like
31:16
Speaker 1: self compassion is the antithesis of shame. So research shows
31:21
Speaker 1: that people that have the most stress and shame, they
31:24
Speaker 1: have the highest and Interluken six levels like these are
31:27
Speaker 1: inflammatory levels. But people that have the highest self compassion
31:31
Speaker 1: scores they have the lowest amount of inflammation levels. So
31:35
Speaker 1: simple practices of consistent daily not too much not you
31:39
Speaker 1: don't have to live in an astromen middle of nowhere.
31:42
Speaker 1: You can really just cultivate practical, sustainable self compassion tools
31:46
Speaker 1: to lower inflammation levels to counteract that problem.
31:50
Speaker 2: If you were to recommend any sort of a gateway,
31:55
Speaker 2: perhaps into a mindfulness or a meditation practice, where would
31:59
Speaker 2: you land?
32:00
Speaker 1: So I think self compassion. I don't know if you
32:03
Speaker 1: could classify that as meditation. I think it is because
32:06
Speaker 1: it's getting you out of your head and into your body,
32:08
Speaker 1: So it's a meditation tool. Loving kindness meditation, I guess
32:12
Speaker 1: would be would be a type of meditation that would
32:15
Speaker 1: fall under that category of cultivating self compassion towards yourself,
32:19
Speaker 1: but also compassion for other people in our world. So
32:22
Speaker 1: that's a great entry point. But people's entry points going
32:25
Speaker 1: to look different and I gave give people about twenty
32:28
Speaker 1: one different feeling action items that include different meditations practices
32:33
Speaker 1: that are shown in the research to help the shame
32:35
Speaker 1: inflammation response to calm inflammation levels in the body, to
32:39
Speaker 1: shift our nervous system and how we think about ourselves.
32:42
Speaker 1: Breath work is another one. I think breath working could
32:45
Speaker 1: be an entry point. But here's a thing. Some people
32:48
Speaker 1: will say, well, meditation's not for me, right, It's like
32:51
Speaker 1: I'm not a good meditator. Meditation is not for me. Normally,
32:54
Speaker 1: the people that say that are the people that need
32:56
Speaker 1: to do it the most. Like their body's so stuck
32:59
Speaker 1: in that fight or flight stress state that it's very
33:01
Speaker 1: uncomfortable to not be in your thoughts. You want to
33:05
Speaker 1: be in those ruminating thoughts all day long, and that
33:09
Speaker 1: mindfulness muscle is weak. So it would be like me
33:12
Speaker 1: going never going to the gym. Let's say I never
33:15
Speaker 1: went to the gym, and I would just go to
33:16
Speaker 1: the gym once and it wasn't good at it, and
33:18
Speaker 1: I'd say, oh, that gym's not for me. You know.
33:20
Speaker 1: It's just it's not the gym's fault. It's my weak
33:23
Speaker 1: muscles that are the fault. And I have just train them.
33:25
Speaker 1: Many people's nervous systems so dysregulated that it's that parasympathetic
33:30
Speaker 1: nervous system is weak, so they need to flex that
33:33
Speaker 1: parasympathetic which is going to take time. Meditation is literally
33:37
Speaker 1: it's vagual nerve workout. And people's vagual nerve, which is
33:42
Speaker 1: the largest cranial nerve in the body, is responsible for
33:45
Speaker 1: the paris tobiltic nervous system largely, which is the resting,
33:49
Speaker 1: digesting hormone balance. Like Zendau, I feel chilled and regulated
33:53
Speaker 1: mechanism of our autonomic nervous system. So but the question
33:57
Speaker 1: is what's the best type of meditation. The one that's consistent,
34:02
Speaker 1: you can be consistent with, that's the best type of meditation.
34:04
Speaker 1: So it's for some people it's going to be you know,
34:07
Speaker 1: box breathing. That's going to be anchoring yourself in the
34:09
Speaker 1: present moment and getting you out of your head and
34:11
Speaker 1: in your body to the next person. It could be
34:13
Speaker 1: a body scan or present moment awareness, or you know
34:16
Speaker 1: Eckar Tootalia talks about inner body awareness, or it could
34:19
Speaker 1: be breathwork. I talk about holotropic breath work, which is
34:22
Speaker 1: it came out of the research of psychedelics, and it's
34:25
Speaker 1: just amazing science around that of metabolizing store trauma or
34:31
Speaker 1: something like shinrin yoku. It's using nature as a meditation.
34:35
Speaker 1: The research out of Japan and South Korea are really
34:38
Speaker 1: just taking in nature as a sort of sensorial medicine,
34:43
Speaker 1: if you will, and a meditation to calm inflammation, to
34:46
Speaker 1: regulate the nervous system. So that's why I mean, it's
34:49
Speaker 1: like when I give people all of these tools, I'm
34:51
Speaker 1: not saying you have to do all of the tools,
34:53
Speaker 1: but I want you to experiment with these different things
34:55
Speaker 1: at least once to say, how did this make me feel?
34:59
Speaker 1: Did this reson with me? Was it not my jam?
35:02
Speaker 1: There's no shame if it wasn't your jam, because you
35:04
Speaker 1: can have other tools to help strengthen that vagus nerve.
35:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that. There's no shame if it's
35:10
Speaker 2: not your jam. You have to have the awareness to
35:13
Speaker 2: have the grease with yourself so that you can then
35:15
Speaker 2: move forward and find the tool that does feel like
35:18
Speaker 2: it's your jam. Now I would be you're amiss. I
35:21
Speaker 2: know they want to know. We talked about the term
35:24
Speaker 2: foods that love you back. So doctor Cole just give
35:28
Speaker 2: us a few.
35:31
Speaker 1: Well, I mean food tribalism. There's diet toxic tribalism that's
35:36
Speaker 1: happening in our culture today, between what I would call
35:39
Speaker 1: toxic diet culture and then on the other side, toxic
35:42
Speaker 1: anti diet culture, or one side is saying basically, you
35:46
Speaker 1: shame your way into wellness, eat less, work out more.
35:49
Speaker 1: It's restriction culture. And then the other side is like
35:53
Speaker 1: the polar opposite rebound response that says, there's notes that's sing,
35:57
Speaker 1: is a bad food, eat whatever you want, and it's
36:02
Speaker 1: all in the name of body positivity. And I would
36:05
Speaker 1: say both are really falling short and causing a lot
36:08
Speaker 1: of food confusion out there, because the fact is, clinical
36:12
Speaker 1: nutrition is still a thing, and there's going to be
36:14
Speaker 1: still some foods that mess up your blood sugar, that
36:17
Speaker 1: raise inflammation, that impact your digestion negatively, that making brain
36:21
Speaker 1: fog and fatigued, and avoiding those foods isn't restrictive in
36:26
Speaker 1: self respect. So it's really talking about this. The analogy
36:31
Speaker 1: that I use in the book is equating people's relationship
36:35
Speaker 1: with food is almost like a relationship with another human being,
36:39
Speaker 1: Like it's a very personal, intimate thing, right, and what's
36:42
Speaker 1: our coping mechanisms with food, what's our relationship with food
36:45
Speaker 1: and our body? And continuing to eat foods that don't
36:49
Speaker 1: love you back is like staying in this toxic relationship
36:52
Speaker 1: and wondering why you're still freaking miserable, but avoiding them.
36:56
Speaker 1: As I said, foods that don't love you back is
36:58
Speaker 1: a form of self respect. But there's a lot of
37:02
Speaker 1: bioindividuality with this conversation, So there is a lot of nuance.
37:05
Speaker 1: There is a lot of like, Okay, just because something's healthy,
37:09
Speaker 1: what works for one person may not be right for me.
37:12
Speaker 1: That is where we're losing it, because it's there's a
37:16
Speaker 1: lot of gray areas and all of these things exist
37:19
Speaker 1: on a spectrum. That's what I look at all day
37:21
Speaker 1: long on labs, Like what works for one person may
37:24
Speaker 1: not be right for you. So there's a lot of
37:26
Speaker 1: uniqueness between all of us. And ultimately, if we all
37:31
Speaker 1: ate the same way and worked out the same way,
37:33
Speaker 1: and did all the wellness and stuff the same way,
37:35
Speaker 1: we still would all look different. And that's okay. I
37:38
Speaker 1: want you to be the best version of you and
37:40
Speaker 1: me to be the best version of me, and we're
37:42
Speaker 1: all going to be different. Sizes and we're all going
37:44
Speaker 1: to look different. So to answer your question like what
37:47
Speaker 1: foods don't love you back, part of it is look
37:50
Speaker 1: just being self experimenting. How do you feel when you
37:54
Speaker 1: eat foods? I call it food piece. It's like still
37:57
Speaker 1: acknowledging the fact that some foods are not good for
37:59
Speaker 1: any human being, but ultimately being your own and of
38:02
Speaker 1: one experiment and seeing what your body loves and what
38:04
Speaker 1: your body hates and using meals as a meditation and
38:08
Speaker 1: a medicine. So if you eat that food and it
38:11
Speaker 1: made you feel like crap, you can take use it
38:14
Speaker 1: as a meditation. Maybe it was worth it. Maybe you
38:16
Speaker 1: were hanging out with your friends and you ate it
38:18
Speaker 1: and it was like, yeah, but there was worth it.
38:20
Speaker 1: I was hanging out with them and I had a
38:21
Speaker 1: fun time. Then drop it like shame is worse than
38:25
Speaker 1: any junk food. But you may use it as a
38:27
Speaker 1: meditation and say, you know what, I'm not going to
38:30
Speaker 1: do that next time. You're going to grow an awareness
38:32
Speaker 1: body awareness for next time to say no, I would
38:36
Speaker 1: rather feel great hang out with my friends, but I
38:39
Speaker 1: don't want to eat things that make me feel good,
38:41
Speaker 1: Like I'd rather feel great more than I thought I
38:43
Speaker 1: wanted that food, and it's like a bad trade off.
38:46
Speaker 1: So this is sort of the paradigm shift of food
38:49
Speaker 1: piece that I think is just paramount for sustainable wellness
38:53
Speaker 1: because it's not this list of dos and don'ts of like, oh,
38:56
Speaker 1: I can't have that. As I say in the book,
38:58
Speaker 1: eat whatever you want, but start to grow and awareness
39:00
Speaker 1: of using meals as a meditation. But that said, there's
39:03
Speaker 1: some foods that are going to pretty much impact everybody
39:05
Speaker 1: negatively to different degrees because of bioindividuality. Like looking at
39:10
Speaker 1: the amount of sugar you're consuming in a day is
39:13
Speaker 1: a good idea for everybody. Some people can have more
39:15
Speaker 1: than others because of bioindividuality. But being mindful of how
39:20
Speaker 1: many grams of added sugar you're consuming in a day,
39:22
Speaker 1: it's going to mess up your mood, it's going to
39:23
Speaker 1: mess up your digestion, it's gonna raise your inflammation, it's
39:26
Speaker 1: going to show up in your face for some people
39:28
Speaker 1: in the form of breakouts. But again, decreasing that isn't restrictive.
39:32
Speaker 1: It's like, no, I like feeling better, Let's like, let's
39:35
Speaker 1: find some better alternatives that love me back so I
39:38
Speaker 1: can still enjoy my food, but not be like paying
39:41
Speaker 1: for it the next day.
39:42
Speaker 2: Right, And I feel that so often we hear such
39:45
Speaker 2: an emphasis on fermented foods. You know, you go to
39:48
Speaker 2: any buzzy clickbait article online you want to read about
39:52
Speaker 2: what's good for your gut, You're going to hear all
39:54
Speaker 2: about kiefer and kim chi and sauerkraut and so on
39:58
Speaker 2: and so forth and so well. My question for you,
40:01
Speaker 2: as someone who is knee deep in this work, is, truly,
40:04
Speaker 2: if someone was to eat all of these foods, could
40:09
Speaker 2: they be making a major mistake? Are they just being
40:13
Speaker 2: led astray by these publications?
40:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, the answer is yes. I don't want to I
40:20
Speaker 1: talk about it in the book a little bit. I
40:21
Speaker 1: don't want to create like fear around this. But look,
40:24
Speaker 1: I'm used to a lot of bioindividuality. And for every
40:27
Speaker 1: healthy food under the sun I can find you, I
40:29
Speaker 1: can think of ten patients or more that. What I
40:33
Speaker 1: mean is like, for every ten patients that it worked,
40:35
Speaker 1: ten patients that it didn't. There's a lot of bioindividuality
40:37
Speaker 1: with this. Yes, decreasing sugar is a good idea. Increasing
40:41
Speaker 1: things like complete proteins, make sure you're optimizing protein which
40:45
Speaker 1: is the raw materials for your neurotransmitters like your serotonin,
40:49
Speaker 1: your dopamine, your seat of coal, and your gabba. Yeah,
40:52
Speaker 1: that's good. Healthy fats are a good idea to support
40:55
Speaker 1: your brain health and your hormone health. And you sell
40:57
Speaker 1: you their health like there's some low hanging fruits so
41:01
Speaker 1: to speak. I mean speaking of fruits like that. Fruits
41:03
Speaker 1: are another thing, Like antioxidant rich fruits are really good idea.
41:07
Speaker 1: Eating fiber rich foods for your got microbiome good idea.
41:10
Speaker 1: But you talk about I mean, let's just call out
41:13
Speaker 1: the probiotic foods. I think they're wonderful for many people.
41:17
Speaker 1: I talk about them in the book as a tool,
41:19
Speaker 1: But there are some people that are and we see
41:24
Speaker 1: this growing problem, just as we're seeing growing more complex
41:28
Speaker 1: auto immune issues and food sensitivity issues and these sort
41:32
Speaker 1: of like reactions, right that whatever the classic conventional advice
41:38
Speaker 1: on the clickbaity article about like gut health for example,
41:41
Speaker 1: or anything else, they're not having good responses from it.
41:44
Speaker 1: So probiotic rich foods are strong modulators of the immune system,
41:49
Speaker 1: right because they're probiotic rich, they have bacteria in them,
41:52
Speaker 1: and they're fermented because of that so fermented foods are
41:56
Speaker 1: higher in histamines. So something that I see clinically a
41:59
Speaker 1: lot is that people overdo these fermented foods. It actually
42:02
Speaker 1: can feel worse, It can increase things like brain fog,
42:04
Speaker 1: digestive problems, things like migrains, because more isn't always better.
42:10
Speaker 1: So I would just say be judicious with these things.
42:12
Speaker 1: They're good things to bring in. I think generally speaking,
42:15
Speaker 1: people need more fermented foods in their body. But bioindividuality,
42:20
Speaker 1: I guess is what I'm trying to say. That is,
42:22
Speaker 1: if you have a food that's like you read it
42:24
Speaker 1: in a clickbaity article and you're like, dang, like this
42:27
Speaker 1: doesn't work for me, what's wrong? Maybe try having less
42:31
Speaker 1: or don't try something else, Like it doesn't mat mean
42:34
Speaker 1: just because you read it in an article you need
42:36
Speaker 1: to be having so much of.
42:37
Speaker 2: It totally, and like, listen, you don't need to convince
42:40
Speaker 2: me on bioindividuality. I feel like, especially as I get
42:43
Speaker 2: older and like trying to get even more and more
42:46
Speaker 2: dialed into what's working for me and my body and
42:48
Speaker 2: understanding that the way that my body feels and is
42:53
Speaker 2: now is just so different than when I was in
42:55
Speaker 2: you know, my early twenties versus my mid thirties, right,
42:59
Speaker 2: But which is why tools for me like I do
43:02
Speaker 2: regular inside Tracker panels, and they're so helpful for me
43:05
Speaker 2: to gain an understanding of where I'm at, what my
43:08
Speaker 2: levels are, and then also the recommendations honestly on what
43:12
Speaker 2: I should be incorporating more of, because that is information
43:16
Speaker 2: that is specific to me and not something that I
43:18
Speaker 2: just like scrolled through on Google.
43:21
Speaker 1: Exactly, I think. But I love direct to consumer labs
43:24
Speaker 1: like inside track or two because even well, hey, I
43:28
Speaker 1: went initial consultations. I love when they already have this
43:31
Speaker 1: data because we have something to talk about in the lab.
43:34
Speaker 1: I love them because you don't even need a functional
43:36
Speaker 1: medicine doctor many times, like I want people to have
43:38
Speaker 1: agency or their health on their own, and maybe those
43:41
Speaker 1: maybe they'll need a functional medicine doctor at some point
43:43
Speaker 1: in their life, but many people don't and they're just
43:46
Speaker 1: looking to optimize how they feel. And you can get
43:48
Speaker 1: your own real time data on information like that and that. Yeah,
43:54
Speaker 1: people behind these labs like inside Tracker, he's super smart
43:57
Speaker 1: and and all these other people that are sort of
43:59
Speaker 1: harnessing tag and data, so you kind of get the
44:02
Speaker 1: gatekeeper out of the way. I think the decentralization of
44:05
Speaker 1: healthcare is so important because this is our body, right.
44:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, snaps to that.
44:11
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so excited and happy that we were able
44:14
Speaker 2: to make some time here. I would be remiss if
44:16
Speaker 2: I didn't ask you before you go, is there any
44:19
Speaker 2: like nugget of wisdom that you want to leave us
44:21
Speaker 2: with so that we feel just more excited and encouraged
44:24
Speaker 2: to take care of our overall health, our gut health
44:27
Speaker 2: moving forward.
44:31
Speaker 1: A massive mantra in our clinic. It's on the back
44:34
Speaker 1: of the book actually, and it says, you can't heal
44:36
Speaker 1: a body you hate. And I think that's something that
44:38
Speaker 1: I want to leave people with. Is that ultimately, all
44:41
Speaker 1: of the stuff I'm talking about, whether it's the gap
44:43
Speaker 1: sport call, or it's different breathing or meditation practices, all
44:49
Speaker 1: of this should be predicated on using self care as
44:52
Speaker 1: a form of self respect. And I think a lot
44:55
Speaker 1: of this stuff can be abused if it's not coming
44:57
Speaker 1: in with an intention of saying, how can I nourish myself?
45:00
Speaker 1: So I think that that's the paradigm shift. It's part
45:02
Speaker 1: of that food piece concept that they talked about earlier
45:04
Speaker 1: that I think goes a long way because it will
45:07
Speaker 1: be sustainable for you. It'll be a source of enjoyment.
45:10
Speaker 1: There'll be a grace, there'll be a lightness to all
45:12
Speaker 1: of this instead of the sort of artists arduous, punitive
45:15
Speaker 1: thing that you're trying to greet your teeth through thing.
45:18
Speaker 2: Well, doctor Will Cole, I'm so happy that we were
45:21
Speaker 2: able to do this today again. For those that aren't
45:24
Speaker 2: following along with you just yet, give us your info.
45:29
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me. Everything's at Doctorwillcole dot com,
45:33
Speaker 1: the telehealth center. The patient options are there, The links
45:37
Speaker 1: to Gut Feelings are there. You can order Gut Feelings
45:40
Speaker 1: on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, all independent bookstores, all
45:43
Speaker 1: everywhere books are sold. And the Art of Being Well
45:45
Speaker 1: a podcast links are there as well. Thank you so.
45:48
Speaker 3: Much, amazing, amazing.
45:49
Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure the link to the book
45:51
Speaker 2: as well for pre orders in the show notes. I'm
45:53
Speaker 2: over at Emily a body at Hurdle Podcast. Another Hurdle conquered.
45:58
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.