Latest / Hook,Line,&SinkHer / Season 1 Episode 1 Casting Off: The Story Behind Hook,Line,&SinkHer
Transcript
- Jayson St.Croix: Welcome to Hook, Line, & SinkHer, the podcast where we cast out big questions, real and honest conversations, and occasionally get distracted by whatever shiny object just floated by. My name is Jayson and I'll be your host as we dive into the fascinating intersection of ADHD education and the systems that shape our lives one conversation at a time. Now, before we get started, let's clear something up. This isn't a podcast about fixing people with ADHD. If anything, it's the rest of us, the systems, the schools, the workplaces that could probably use a little fixing. It's not about becoming perfectly organized, color coding every calendar, or somehow discovering the mythical planner system that works forever. It's about real people, real experiences, and real strategies from individuals who have learned to thrive with ADHD in their own unique ways. Each episode, I'll throw out the bait a question, an idea, or maybe even a challenge, and together we'll explore what it means to live, work, and succeed while your brain insists on having 17 tabs open at all times. And who better to join me on this adventure than someone who not only understands ADHD professionally, but lives with it every day? I'm excited to introduce my co-host, Dr. Amy St. Croix Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Hi, how you doing? I'm Dr. Amy St. Croix. My work sits right at the intersection of education, ADHD, medicine, and legal analysis. And you know, those are four worlds that overlap far more than most people realize. And I'm super excited that we're finally gonna get to have these conversations. Jayson St.Croix: I'm looking forward to it too. I think this is going to be great. So, Dr. St. Croix, before we jump into future episodes and all the topics we're going to tackle together, I think our listeners deserve to know how Hook, Line, & SinkHer Her came to be. Because, like many great ideas, this one wasn't born in a corporate boardroom or during some carefully planned strategy session. It probably started the same way a lot of our ADHD adventures do, with a conversation that took seventeen detours and somehow landed on something worth pursuing. So, Dr. St.Croix tell us a little bit about how this podcast came to life. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: So Like you said, like a lot of adventures and ADHD. I have to say that this podcast is actually probably about two years in the making. This is something that we came up with. Can't take full credit. We do have a colleague, a good friend, who kind of helped us spar this, right? She has ADHD kind of in all of the ways that I might not. So when the two of us get into a room, there's some amazing conversation that happens. Unfortunately, you can't always follow us, but it happens nonetheless. And that's how this podcast came to be. We started talking about it, we started talking about what our lives were like and how you know, not that we saw ourselves as different than other people, but how we were really struggling, In the world that everybody else was presenting to us. And how were we able to solve those problems that we were having? But then more so, we started talking about the kids that we work with. And you know, as grown adults, we were struggling in certain areas. What does that look like for kids? And what does that look like for parents who are trying to support kids? And then more so in the professional realm that you know we kind of work in in regards to medicine and law and and how that all ties together. And so you know back to the original question. This podcast really developed with two people with ADHD that just started ADHDing. Jayson St.Croix: Yep. And it didn't take 17 turns. It probably took about 34 turns. But I I I'm Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: That's right. It's still turning. Jayson St.Croix: I I'm glad this came to fruition finally, because I think the colleague that you mentioned and a good friend of ours will be a regular contributor on this because you two do have ADHD and you are very successful in your professional careers. So we're looking forward to that. For those of you who are just joining us, we'd love to tell you a little bit about who we are. We both work in education, where no two days are ever the same. Add ADHD into the mix, and suddenly every day becomes a combination of problem solving, improvisation, and occasionally wondering why we walked into the room in the first place. Dr. St. Croix, tell us a little bit about yourself. Your background, your work, and how ADHD has shaped your journey. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, so in regards to my background, I have an extensive background in the field of education. I was a teacher, and then you know realized fairly quickly that I was struggling teaching high school English six times a day. Basically, because of my ADHD, I needed that, a little bit of spontaneity in my day. And with that, I moved into the world of administration and you know, I've held all of those roles assistant principal, principal, director of curriculum and instruction, director of special ed. So throughout decades, you know, worked within a school and what that looks like, and then got to the piece of the doctorate and where, you know, I really started digging into that research of neurodiversity And what that looks like, and you know, how all those worlds come together, and how we're struggling, because as a society, we don't put those worlds together. So, you know, in in regards to my background, I have an extensive background in education, extensive background in neurodivergency and research with ADHD, and just kind of how that journey looks for all of the roles that are involved and across the multitude of domains and we got to Scholastico, which is you know the educational consulting firm that I'm a co-founder of and senior principal consultant, and we really work to merge those pillars, those worlds together. Jayson St.Croix: You mentioned decades of experience. I believe it's over twenty years, correct? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, I mean I'm not that old, right? I mean I'm you know, started teaching when I was ten. But yeah, it's it's decades of experience. and I still, you know, even as the as the founder or co-founder of Scholastico, right now to this day, we still have a contract where you know, I have the honor of being an administrative consultant in a school. So I'm still having you know, I'm still in that world. I'm still gaining the experience because the children that we see today are not the kiddos that we saw 10 years ago or even five years ago. So it's an ever-changing space and I mean I know you know this but I'm absolutely a lifelong learner I can't sit still I can't stop learning so I love the fact that I've been given the opportunity that even with you know what 23, 24, years now, 25 years in administration I am still in that space. Like it's a great place to be because you just learn so much Jayson St.Croix: For those of you that are watching this podcast on our YouTube channel, I think you will all agree with me that she still looks about 10, right? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Thank you, thank you. Jayson St.Croix: So, Dr. St.Croix I got a question for you. Since this Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Sure. Jayson St.Croix: is gonna be real honest conversations that we're gonna have throughout this podcast, how did you first realize that ADHD was influencing your life? What was that big aha moment where like, man, I got ADHD? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, well, I can tell you it it didn't come until adulthood. So looking back on not so much my elementary years, but especially my high school years. Now that I know what I know now, and I have the experience and the expertise in the field, I can see where it really impacted you know, my my teen years, so to speak. But I honestly, you know, we joke about my age, but I grew up in the 80's and the 90's where ADHD wasn't necessarily identified. And it surely wasn't identified in girls. It was much more space of that stereotypical, you know, hyperactive little boy. And my mom and dad just, it just wasn't in our world at that time. It it didn't happen, it wasn't diagnosed, those kinds of things. So it wasn't until I went to college and I really started to learn about this field, and then of course, as I, you know, got older and I was Like, wow. I didn't realize that everybody was like this. I didn't realize that I thought that everybody heard noise in their head. I didn't realize that there was a quiet space for people. And now as an adult, I can say this. I literally say to you specifically, I need a minute, my head is loud. And then I step away and I'm able to to deal with that. But but when I was younger, I didn't know. And you know, I tell this story about you know, when you're listening to music and you have that opportunity to shuffle, I can't do that. I just thought that that was my like or dislike, right? I didn't realize that from a really young age, putting shuffle on the radio gives me pure anxiety because I do not know what's coming next. So it's just things like that as I've aged and you know I think my world has become more complex, but my knowledge has become greater. And I've you know really moved into that expertise expertise within certain parts of this field that I've really, really been able to identify the parts and pieces of my daily life that are affected by ADHD. But I was not diagnosed as a child. I was diagnosed as an adult. Jayson St.Croix: This is how the podcast came to be. I literally cast out a bait, she took the bait, and we end up going in a different direction because what she didn't understand what she was just doing is she was teasing the audience. We have future episodes coming up where they all tie back to this fishing theme of taking the bait. Right? And one of those coming up specifically our next episode, she kind of foreshadowed a little bit Myths and Misconceptions Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Sure. Jayson St.Croix: about ADHD. And a future episode coming up shortly thereafter will be strategies to help cope with ADHD. So exactly what this podcast was intended to do. I literally throw out a question, she takes the bait, she runs with that question, and we see where we end up. So Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I'm I'm super excited to have a conversation about ADHD and girls. that's a space that I think I'm super passionate about. But I think it moves beyond the fact that I'm obviously a girl. I have a child that I have experienced ADHD with in the parenting role. And it's just so very different than you know the stereotypical what I think society expects ADHD to be. And I'm I'm really excited to have that conversation. Jayson St.Croix: Interesting you say that because I actually wanted to ask you, how has your perspective on ADHD changed over the years? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I 180 degrees. 180 degrees. Well, I think first is I couldn't identify, like, again, when I was younger, right? I couldn't identify that the things that I was feeling or the things that I was doing was related to the ADHD. And then I think the other piece of that is as a society, we have become much more knowledgeable. And even if we don't have knowledge, we at least have awareness, which is huge, of neurodivergent behaviors, characters. characteristics and supports. And you know, I hate to bring this up, but there's this great trend that's on right now. That's the the squishies that we all know the name of, right? And that seems to be like the super popular trend amongst kids. But I have to be honest, that's not new to people like me. We're constantly using fidges. It doesn't matter if it's a really cool pen that has a clicking mechanism that you can still use. utilize in a boardroom, or if if it's an actual fidget. I mean, those things are real. So I really think that it's it's understanding how to support the characteristics and the challenges that we just have being in this world with neurodivergent tendencies. Jayson St.Croix: If anybody would ever like to stop by the office and vouch and confirm her collection of squishies at her desk, her director of operations has a nice collection of squishies because she is also part of our ADHD crew and very successful. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: As well as my office mate that I share an office with, she has a nice little collection of squishies over on her side of the desk, doesn't she? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, yeah. So we wish this trend would go away so we can get back some of our supports. But I just, you know, kind of going off of that, I think that I I think that there's some really strong misconceptions about ADHD and about neurodivergency. Jayson St.Croix: Tease them don't give it away. We want them to come back next time. Just tease Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No, no, I j I just think that there's there's misconceptions. You know, and and kind of as that goes with misconceptions of what we do, right? Or the work that we do. I think it's all connected. It it really is. It's really just all connected. Jayson St.Croix: So speaking of the work we do, how has working in education specifically shaped the way you think about ADHD? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, I kind of have multiple perspectives, right? Because of the roles that I've been in. So you know, I'm very much able to see a teacher's perspective. And I think that that's really important because you know, sometimes when you're not in the classroom you can forget what it's like to be in reality, right? So we can give as many resources and suggestions and recommendations, but honestly, they're theoretical until you put them into place in the classroom and they become reality. So it's no longer a one-to-one environment. You know, you're you're talking anywhere from 15 to 25, 28 kids in a classroom. So being able to support one one kid is a lot of thought and a lot of commitment on the part of a teacher in a classroom. So, and and they have so many, right? And and of course, as teachers, we want to support all of our kids. So I think that knowing that is really helpful for me. Because I'm not just spewing out, you know, statistics that work or supports that work. I really understand a classroom and what that looks like on a daily basis, right? I understand what that looks like in December before before we break for the holidays, and then we talk about March, right? March is March madness for a reason in a classroom. So I Jayson St.Croix: Is it? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: have all of those experiences. But I also think the administrative perspective is also huge because I can talk with you know, when we have parent clients, or even when we're doing legal analysis, I'm able to sit with, regardless if it's a parent or it's a legal team, and say to them, I understand why you're looking for this, or I understand why this support is important. But what you need to understand is there's a master schedule that's driving some of these decisions. And it's just not feasible until we hit a certain point, right? Like where are we at in that point? So I really think those underlying little tidbits of knowledge of living and working in that world allow me to to help others understand. And then there's of course those times when I can say, no, we can do that. Let's look at it from this perspective. So those are amazing. Like having having all of those, you know, I think I've actually said this to you before. I wish I would have done this earlier and opened up the firm, but I don't think that I could have and been as knowledgeable and successful as I am because of the experience that I've had in the education sector. Jayson St.Croix: Excellent. In my notes I was hoping I was I'm glad you broke it down by perspectives teacher administrative because you've been on both sides of that and you can relate to both sides of it. it reminds me of one of my favorite posters I have. Not a poster but a printout that I have in my room are kids are not data points. I mean some teachers teach curriculum and some teachers teach students. And there's a big difference between the two. And knowing your kids, go ahead. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. And No and I think I think that's super, super important in this role because like obviously you know this, but just for our listeners, I can sit sometimes and analyze evaluations, analyze medical evaluations. I can analyze report cards and curriculum and instruction, all of those parts and pieces that go into the support that we provide to attorneys and to doctors in trying to meet kids' needs, right? But I think that the really, really important pieces is I'm able to understand that. sometimes the documents that are provided, that's not the whole story. So exactly like you said, I can look at an evaluation, and I think before this experience, I would have been like, nope, these are the percentiles, these are the numbers, this is what they mean. But because kids are kids, right? They're not data points. What does that translate to the classroom? And from the teacher's perspective, what does that translate? Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, I think that's an excellent transition into our next segment, which is why the podcast evolved. Because when we first started talking about this podcast, we thought we'd spend most of our time talking about ADHD. And we will. We that'll probably be a majority of our time. But the more we talked, the more we realized that ADHD is only one piece of a much bigger story. Dr. St. Croix spends her days helping schools, supporting families, consulting on special education issues, partnering with medical professionals, including pediatricians' offices, and increasingly working alongside legal teams to help navigate some incredibly complicated situations. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: And what we've learned is that these worlds, education, medicine, ADHD, and the law, overlap in ways most people will never see. So while this podcast will absolutely explore executive functioning, productivity, the realities of ADHD, we're also going to pull back the curtain on some of the systems that affect the students, the educators, families, our colleagues, our friends every single day. So when did you realize your work in this educational consulting was going beyond traditional educational consulting? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, so I think initially when I left administration and I, you know, opened the firm, we had actually been doing this part-time for several years, like five or six years, I think. you know, and it was in my free time, it was after school, it was on the weekends, you know, it was it was a part-time thing while I was still an administrator. but when we went full-time, the initial goal expectation, thought was going to be exactly what you said traditional educational consulting. We work with parents to support a child's needs both in and outside of the classroom, because believe it or not, parents sometimes even struggle parenting children with ADHD at home, right? Throughout extracurricular activities, those kinds of things. And then, of course, dealing with the social aspect that comes with ADHD. As a parent. And I always thought that that's where we would be. We would be supporting districts, supporting parents, and you know, moving that initiative forward. And maybe a year after the firm went full-time, I think, we just were not in that space anymore at all. We were working with local pediatricians who were very, you know, forward-thinking doctors. And honestly, really reflective on themselves that they had the capability to diagnose and potentially provide medication if that was something that a family wanted. But then they didn't have the ability to know what came next, so to speak. So I get these side calls from, you know, some of our local pediatricians Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: of like, hey, I got this kiddo and this is what, you know, where we're at. What are your recommendations? What should we do from here? what should I suggest to to the families. and and that's really how we started to grow in the medical realm. And then the legal space is just enormous for us because we're what we're really able to do in that space is as we have families that are really navigating super difficult situations and attorneys are navigating the due process process, you know, they're experts in law. But it's our expertise of what happens inside of schools and what happens in regards to parenting and the medical pieces that are pulled into that. And then, of course, the research pieces, right, of ADHD and neurodivergent needs that that all pull into that together. That really connects the dots in those really difficult legal situations and those due process hearings. And you know, we've been really blessed to work with some great attorneys and some great firms on some amazing cases that then those families when when the when the legal cases are over have actually signed on as our clients and we're still able to to progress with the family and be with the family. And it's awesome because I have to be honest, you really get connected to these families, really connected. Regardless of how you got to them in what world or what domain, you really get connected. You know, you start texting on their birthdays and checking in, you know, with the mamas on Mother's Day and those kinds of things, because there really is a true relationship that's being built out of all of this work. Jayson St.Croix: That that's a pretty broad scope of work that you mentioned that this firm has kind of taken. What misconceptions do people have about the work that you do? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I love that question. I love that question. So I think that the biggest misconception is what we do in supporting parents. I think that a huge misconception is that, you know. We offer the same services that a school district offers, or we offer the same services that potentially, you know, a classroom teacher. You could call them up and say, hey, we see this is happening. What can that's just so inaccurate. What we do here is really look to support to be able to kind of bridge all those worlds because just because we're helping a family on something that has to do with education, there potentially is a lawyer and a doctor in the background and a behavior we've talked about this a behavior consultant and a behavior counselor that we also work with. And everybody is working together to meet the needs of these kids. So well and families, not just kids. But I really think that the largest misconception that is kind of out there as our work is that it's super surface level. It's just explaining what an IEP is or it is, you know, looking through an evaluation and and you know judging to make sure it was done correctly. That is just so surface level compared to the analytical work that we're really doing at the firm right now. Now. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, those that know know, right? And those that don't, don't. Right. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, right? Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: and I could vouch for the many lonely nights I'm downstairs watching TV while Dr. St. Croix is upstairs on either a conference call or with one of her families. Because they are all important to her and she's very personally invested with these families. And they've grown over time. But what what go ahead? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: And and it's it's super interesting because, you know, I I think I initially said in the beginning, you know, we thought it was all gonna be family oriented. And then I I kind of pushed out there how we changed that. But I have to be honest, in reality, even as we're working on these law cases, or you know, when when I'm seeing patients in a pediatrician's office, it's still technically family oriented, right? Like I'm still meeting with the legal teams, with the families. Like there's it It's it's just an amazing opportunity and world and we're just so blessed that this firm has gone to a space like this. Jayson St.Croix: So one of the reasons we wanted to create this podcast is because ADHD conversations often focus on struggles. And don't get me wrong, there are a lot of struggles. But there are also strengths, creativity, resilience, humor, countless success stories that deserve just as much attention. Our goal isn't to pretend that ADHD is easy. It's to create a place where people can hear honest stories, pick up practical strategies, and maybe even laugh at the moments that make us all think, well, 'that was very ADHD of me. We also want listeners to know that ADHD doesn't define who they are. It may shape the way they think, the way they learn, and experience the world, but it doesn't limit what they can accomplish. So, Dr. St. Croix, when the listeners tune in each week, what do you hope they will take away from these conversations? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I want it to resonate with them, right? Like I I hope that our audiences are fulfill different roles. So moms and dads listen, educators listen, you know, medical experts, legal experts, you know, even experts in the ADHD field, I hope that we, you know, all of those roles are you know, in our audience. And I just want what we talk about to resonate with them, regardless of what their role is. So if you're a mama who is leaving for work in the morning and you're already doused and sweat. Because you've already, you know, ran a marathon and wrestled a wild animal in an attempt to get a pair of socks on. Like I feel that. I feel that. Every moment of that. I feel that. Jayson St.Croix: Or a pair of socks. It's got the little balls on the end, if you remember a certain little girl that used to make you Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I do. Jayson St.Croix: sweat every morning. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I do. I feel that for them as parents. I feel that for them for myself, right? Because let's be honest, I have a sock issue myself. I want it to resonate with teachers to know that, you know, we there's just so much out there. you It's trial and error in the sense that you give your best every day. and some days are better than others, right? Like that just is what it is. And maybe we're gonna make a suggestion or a recommendation and you're gonna pick up on that and be like, I have a kid in my class that could could potentially benefit from that and then and then try it. And of course, you know, as administrators and how that works in these worlds in regards to things like, you know, disciplines, suspensions, because that's a whole different world when we're talking about the behaviors of you know ADHD and and impulsivity and how that translates into a school environment. And I hope it resonates with you know our doctors and our lawyers and how we meet our patients and our clients in those worlds and you know how we can kind of support them and support their family and you know really just have what we're sharing resonate regardless Regardless of where you're at or what role you're playing, for yourself or for someone else who's neurodivergent. Jayson St.Croix: Excellent. All right. So before we wrap things up, it's time for what may become my favorite segment of the show, the tangent of the week. Every episode we're going to share one of those moments that perfectly captures the wonderful, unpredictable nature of ADHD, because sometimes the best stories come from the places you never intended to go. Now, for anyone just getting to know Dr. St. Croix, there are a few things you should know. She loves Disney, she loves cruising, she loves warm weather, reading, and because she apparently enjoys a challenge, she enjoys spending her free time keeping up with the ever-changing world of special education law. Pretty accurate? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely accurate. Jayson St.Croix: So, Dr. St. Croix, let me paint you a picture, okay? You ready? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yep, let's go. Jayson St.Croix: Imagine you're sitting on the deck of a cruise ship somewhere in the Caribbean, the sun is shining, you got a book in one hand, your favorite vacation drink in the other, and you're determined to take a break from work. But then you remember an article you wanted to read about recent changes in special education regulations. So you pull out your phone for a quick five minute read. Forty-five minutes later, you've somehow gone from educational law to planning our next Disney excursion to researching whether cruises are better in the Eastern or Western Caribbean. And now you're dead scrolling TikTok Disney Vacation Club going down that rabbit hole. Sound pretty accurate. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, because there is a better space in the Caribbean and I did book the Disney vacation. So yeah, it's pretty stinkin' accurate. Jayson St.Croix: So tell us, honestly, how close is that to reality in your everyday world? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It honestly, it's pretty close. But there's a whole group of challenges that even in that description, you couldn't have even touched upon. And like for example, you know, in the description, it sounds so easy. I'm just scrolling my phone, right? And I'm got a hundred tabs open and I'm all over the place. But you never once talked about how the light. Off the phone in being unable to read certain areas within just sends me completely dysregulated, or how the ice in my drink may not have been pebble ice, and that sends me completely like it. It's just it's not even just about all the tabs open. It's the challenges within all the tabs that are open. But yeah, that pretty much describes what what happens in my world on a daily basis. Yeah, pretty much shiny object. Jayson St.Croix: Yep, they're and two days are not usually the same, are they? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No. Why would you want them to be? Jayson St.Croix: Right. All right. Well, that's our first cast. So thank you for joining us for the very first episode of Hook, Line, & SinkHer. We hope you'll come back as we explore productivity, relationships, careers, education, and all the unexpected twists and turns that come with ADHD. If today's conversation resonated with you, Be sure to like and subscribe, and share the podcast with someone who understands what it's like to lose their train of thought halfway through a sentence. And next time we'll be diving into our first official topic, The One That Got Away: ADHD Myths and Misconceptions. Because if there's one thing the world has no shortage of, it's opinions about ADHD. And it's about time we started separating the facts from the myths. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, that that's gonna be exciting. That's gonna be exciting. And I think the the other part, you know, just to kind of give a little teaser of what where my brain is going, not that it won't go 75 other places between now and our next episode, but I Jayson St.Croix: No doubt. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I I'm thinking, you know, even that misconception when people think that they have it, because you know they're always hyper or they can't remember something or they don't like a color or that doesn't that that's such a you know if you know you know. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. And this isn't our mom's and our grandparents' world that they grew up in. It's drastically different. Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: So different. So different. Jayson St.Croix: Until next time, keep casting, keep learning, and remember, sometimes the best catches happen when you least expect them.