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Dividends Over Day Jobs: Income ETFs Become Huge Hit with Gen Z · Trillions

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Woken a Trillians.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Balchuna's.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: Eric. There was a big take by our friends at
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Bloomberg News recently that totally caught my attention. The headline
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: the new American hustle dividends over day jobs. You know,
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: part of that sounds pretty alluring, you know, like give
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: up the day job and you just have steady paycheck
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: coming to you from an investment. We dabbled on this before,
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: but the numbers are actually pretty insane, which is one
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: of the things we want to talk about on today's episode.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this part of the ATF market is getting huge,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: and it's a spectrum. I mean, let's face it, older
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: people love their dividends too, but this is like dividends
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: on steroids. In fact, the names are even like they
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: remind me of that fate gatora company, Idiocracy, Brondo, the
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Thirst Mutilator, it's like the income Mutilator, you know, it's
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: very I think one of them is called income Blast
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: income Boost with all caps. So this is selling. There's
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: a market for it, and I think people need to
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: just understand what they're buying. But I think it's again,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: it's a spectrum and it's very hot area but interesting.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Just real quick on big Take, you should let's explain
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: this because how many reporters work at Bloomberg, like twenty
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: three hundred more, yeah, three thousand.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Something like that with analysts, and only.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: One reporter gets there's one big take a day yep,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: and this was that. So there's two hundred and fifty
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: big takes a year and this story got one of those.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, and as it should have because the little
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: corners of like what's happening in Reddit and stuff are
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: just endlessly fascinating. And you know, I mentioned the number,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: not only the inflows or which we'll talk about.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: But the percent yields.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: We're talking like eight percent in some cases, or when
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: it's super charged like triple digit, like above one hundred.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: So this is going to be fascinating.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: We're going to be joined by Wildonna Hirich, regular on Trillions.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: She's a cross asset reporter at Bloomberg News and she's
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: on the byline. Diniza Sikova is the other reporter, this
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: time on Trillions Dividends over Day Jobs fil Donna, welcome
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: back to Trillions.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Okay, so dividends we've written about You've written about this before,
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: but the numbers really blew my mind. Walk us through
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: how big of a landscape this has become in ETFs, right.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: And maybe we should just categorize what it is. I
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: feel like there's two categories, which Eric already sort of
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: hinted at. One is the traditional dividend investing, so there's
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: an choke or.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Right excellon or and there's.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Companies that are famous for dividend payouts exactly.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: And there are ETFs that hold shares of companies that
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: are high dividend, so those are like your traditional dividend payers.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: And then there's this new category where you're getting, like
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: you said, like super high yields, sometimes ninety percent or more.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: And we have written about it before, but since then
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: it's only grown and you're just seeing billions and billions
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: of dollars going into these funds. It's a category altogether
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: that encompasses more than seven hundred billion dollars. But part
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: of the reason that they are growing so much is
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: that there's a whole cohort of influencers who post on
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: YouTube and read it and other places who love these
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: products and are almost like ambassadors for them.
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  Speaker 3: One out of every six dollars so far this year
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: have gone into this space. Eric, how does that compare
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: with other hot assets classes?
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: In ETFs?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: They're punching way above their weight. So when you say
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: one of every six dollars, that would be ballpark of
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: you know, there's eight hundred billion into ETFs, it's one
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: every sick with one hundred and twenty billion. That's probably
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: a high percentage over their assets. So this is one
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: of the faster growing areas.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I mean I know firsthand. This is really exciting stuff
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: because when I was at the Money Show, I was
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: doing a presentation in the booth area, which is sort
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: of like you're like a carnival barker. It's actually a
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: good practice for presenting because you're like have to like
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: real people in like, hey, step right up, it's the
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: whole thing. Anyway, I'm going through flavors of hot sauce
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: and I get to the yield max, which is like
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: income hot sauce, and I got like twelve people there.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: But when I start showing these yields, they're like eighty
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: ninety one hundred percent. I don't even know if people
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: could see it. I think they just sensed it like
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: permones and that my crowd doubled and.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: It was I mean, I'm about to walk over to you.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: You're like really enticing me.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: It was then that Carnival Barker future.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: And these are older people. So I think everybody loves
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: income and yield. I think the psychological feeling is you're
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: getting a paid like a check sent to you, and
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: it feels good. It's like, now it's complicated because in
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: some cases that's extra on top of what the market does,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: like your S and P. It's a you know, income
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: is like dividends on top of your return. But in
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: some cases it's like you're giving up all your return
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: to give that yield. So it's almost like you're just
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: designed to pay yourself in yield or income instead of
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: just cashing out after ten years in total return. So
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: it's psychological I think in a way when it comes
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: to those really high yield ones.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, so wait, let's just pause and break down what
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: the playbook for these ETFs in the sort of the
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: kool aid that the thin influencer crowd is using.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: What does that playbook look like?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so it generally looks something like this, where you're
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: investing your money into these ETFs, whether it's a variety
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: of them or specifically yield max is one issue that
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: has the most popular products or some of the most
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: popular products. Maybe you invest a bunch of your money
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: into a couple of their each, But then you're getting
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: those payouts. The issuers are making them have been making
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: them more frequent. So there are some where you can
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: get weekly payouts, but let's say you're getting them monthly.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: And so we spoke with a number of people who
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: get anywhere from five hundred dollars a month in these
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: payouts to somebody who's looking to get nine thousand dollars
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: a month and then using them to pay for all
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: of their bills basically, so they're paying for gas, electricity,
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: like it's coming out of those accounts. One guy we
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: spoke with got a new use car as I called it,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: and like the car payments are being made thanks to
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: or via these I should say, via these dividend payouts. Yeah, exactly, mortgages,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: you know. So they're sort of it's like a they've
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: built a life around, like their life revolves around these payouts.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: And when you talk to them, were they taking like
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: money that was would otherwise be like retired or are
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: they taking like whatever their paychecks look like and shoveling
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: into this Just to supersize, this is.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: A really good question because that guy, he actually he
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: told us he cashed out his wife's retirement account.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Does she know that? She does know that?
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: I asked. I asked him the same question, I said,
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: don't make me call her? Is she aware that she owns?
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: Because then he used that money to buy some of
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: these some yield max CTFs. Actually, but he has a
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: day job also, and he has a regular retirement account
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: on the side, So it's it's a mixture. I think
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: it just it depends on the person and their risk tolerance.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: The nine thousand dollars figure I mentioned is somebody we
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: spoke with who recently moved across the country and was
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: having a hard time finding a job and then sort
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: of like Eric described, became enticed by these high payouts
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: and decided to you know, he's I think he sold
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: some of his cars in his house and he put
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: that money towards some of these. So it's really interesting.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: It's sort of astounding what they've been able to build
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: and how they've built their lives, like their daily functioning around.
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  Speaker 3: Pctf total change in terms of like cash flow and
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: how probably Normanies might think.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: About cash flow.
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  Speaker 3: Eric to get these returns eight seventy ninety one hundred
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: percent returns, what is different about how how these products
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: are actually functioning.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: West to put it, it's a spectrum. But generally speaking,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: they're writing call options just outside of the money. So
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: let's say Tesla's one hundred dollars, they're writing a call
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: option at like one hundred and one or one hundred
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: and two dollars. You pay a lot for that, So
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I'm getting a lot of money from you to buy that,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: because that means if Tessa goes up even a little
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: or a lot, you can call it and you instantly
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: book a profit. That means if Tesla does go up,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: the call option gets exercised and you get none of
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Tessa's upside, but you get premium from the person who
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: you sold the option to. So you essentially writing off
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: your entire future of return to get income. Now that's
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: really what it is. Somebody who owns Tesla and didn't
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: do any of this would just reimagine the total return
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: they got just say well, if that was income, I
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: would have gotten the same thing. So again, this is
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: somewhat psychological. Some people just like to see it as income.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: The guy we spoke to a couple like two years ago,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: maybe we had one of these twenty somethings on to
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: talk about this, he said he used that income to
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: get a mortgage, like it was part of his income.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: So I get it.
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  Speaker 2: I think Also one of the lines in here that
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I thought was really great was I've always had what
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: they call the shiny object syndrome, so shiny objects hot sauce.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: It's a very viable area of the ETF world. At
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: least he's honest with himself. And I got to give
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: you credit for finding these people, because a lot of
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: times these articles are written from Ivory Tower folks and
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: they're like, look at all these degens, these idiots. They
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: don't know. I'm a real street guy, know everything. These
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: are idiots, And like you never get to hear from
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: the actual people trading them, and you hear from them,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: You're like, Okay, these guys they know more about this
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: than you think they or they know the risks and
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: they're deciding to take it anyway. I really appreciate you
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: getting them in the article. So how did you get
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: a twenty seven year old like YouTube income addict to
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: talk to you?
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: So, yield Max actually the issue behind some of the
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: most popular products. As I mentioned, they actually had an
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: event at NAZAC where they invited a bunch of these
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: influencers and Deniza and I attended it and it was
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: a closing bell ringing and we talked to so many
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: people who love these funds. Eli actually he does not
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: invest in yield mass. He takes a more traditional route.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: I think he invests a lot of his money in
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: the big Schwab dividend ETF, which is like the biggest,
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: one of the most established, like old school dividend ETFs.
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it ran the gamut and some people really
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: like the super high yielding stuff, the ninety plus percent
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: or eighty plus percent. But we met a lot of
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: them at that event. And then the other thing is,
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: I mean they're online, so you can find their YouTube videos.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: By the way, let me just readolf. I'm going to go.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Here's yield Max's product line. First of all, yield max
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: has seventeen billion. That's a lot for an indie issuer.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: They only had one or two billion to start the year,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: and that's how fast they've grown.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: So they're here.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna sort by yield two hundred and fifteen percent,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: one hundred and nineteen percent, one hundred and seventy three percent.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, these are outrageous.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: And a lot of these products, like MSTY which is
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the micro strategy that's taken five billion this year and
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: it yields one hundred and sixty six percent, but it's
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: your date return is thirteen percent. I imagine that's lagging
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: micro strategy by a ton.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: Well, to be fair to the issuers, what they'll tell
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: you is they will They are not claiming that they're
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: going to help you beat the market or you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: stay on par with the market. There if they say
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: to you, if you want to do that, don't buy
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: yield Max products. Don't buy these are not meant for that.
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: These are meant for those payouts, and some people just
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: want the payouts.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: So walk us through if you're But by the way,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: can I just say something So there's these things called
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: strips that were made up back in the day by
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Wall Street guys where they would strip out the coupon
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: payment from the bond, and so if you want to
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: just the bond and the principle, it jacks up your
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: interest rate duration. And if you want the strips, it
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: just gives you the cash flow. And there's a lot
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: of institutions that might just want the dividends from the
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: S and P versus the return, some for tax reasons.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: In other words, if you haven't, there's totally an institutional
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: investor who might do this, and it all it sounds
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: so like, oh, that's great, that's serious. But just because
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: a twenty seven year old does it, and it's in
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: the ETF world, I feel like sometimes it gets overly slammed.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: But it's not.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Wallstreet's been doing this forever. They take this out of this,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: put this in this. It's just it's just it's like,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: cook's all stuff up.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: That's what they do.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: The difference is to have retail being able to do
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: this on their own with their own portfolios.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Agree, which is why we have the equivalent of a
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: movie rating system for ETFs. These would probably be PG thirteen,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I imagine I'd have to look at our system or
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: maybe even are based on the like.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Complications NC seventeen rating In there, we do the.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: That's reserved for like triple leveraged ETFs that are that
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: are etns and role future.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Could you leverage dividends like this?
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Sure?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Three x that one? Five? Okay, Phil Donald?
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: If I can add one thing just in terms of
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: the flows and how much money is coming in, because
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: Eric mentioned how much yield Max has now after that event,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: I think what happened is a lot of the influencers
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: went home and made videos about the event, and yield
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: Max got over five billion dollars.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: So that's also a whole influencer thing. By the way,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: And I was just in Brazil and somebody was telling
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: me there that like the whole market there is run
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: by influencers. Like I think we we're in the we're
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: in the legacy media, i'd call us. Maybe we're a
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: little more advanced. But the amount of like views and
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: stuff going on, Like I see a YouTube channel, I'm like,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: oh my god, that's that's more than like CNN gets
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: for some of their shows, Like it's really pervasive.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Build What other ETFs we mentioned the Shop one and
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: and Misty which is strategy centric. What other ETFs does
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: the crowd?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Adore you do you do?
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: You want me to talk about jetpy here. Sure, is
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: that what you're trying to get?
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: We can do jefpy.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: I know there's a couple other ones, but were you
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: thinking of one other one? What the pantheon of dividend
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: ETFs and what are what's everyone's favorites?
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: Well, Jefpi is a product from JP Morgan launched a
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: couple of years ago that when the market sold off
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: in twenty twenty two, jefpy actually did better. It's than
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: the market. The market lost like twenty percent that year,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: and it has a maybe what we might call a
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: more conservative payout of around eight percent. But it is
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: but if we want to sort of contextualize it within
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: this conversation, it also if you look overall, it's lagging
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: the market by a lot. So if you had been
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: invested in the market, you maybe you know your returns
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: would be looking better. But again, the people who are
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: running jefpy, they'll tell you it it's not meant to
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: be beating the market.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: That analysis I just did on where the call option
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: is written, I think jefpy they're writing that call option
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: way more out of the money. So in that example
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: of Tesla, it would have to go up a lot
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: before the call got exercised. So it's where in the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: money you write the option you able to sort of
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: fine tune whether you want in come a little a
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: little more or like steroids. And that's really that's why
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: it is a spectrum. And you can look if I'm
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: actually sorted all ETFs by yield, and it really it
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: cascades down from two hundred percent to zero pretty nicely,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: so you can really just find like where your right
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: yield is for how much upside you want to give up.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: But just know, at the end of the day, whether
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: it's a Wall Street institution or these people, there is
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: no free lunch. You're probably going to give up something
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: to get something that's really cool looking.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Well, just to break that down and be really simple
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: about it, what else are you giving up?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: You're giving up upside plus the cost of the ETF. Right,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: if you did this on your own, you want to
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: pay the expense ratio. But really it's in these steroid ones.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: It's all the upside. And the with that is the
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: total return of a stock. It's unlimited. I mean not
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: that they go up forever, but they could go up
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: a lot, and you've just given up all of that
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: for a payout. So I think in many cases people
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: if you if if you just imagined the total return
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: of a stock and then like in your mind you said, okay,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: well if I if I did get this into into
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: like four payouts, it would be x, and then just
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: imagine you got the money but you didn't that that's
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the same thing. I mean, you could just it's look,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: there's there's a return in the market. It's like, how
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: do you want that delivered to you? Do you want
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: to just get it all one lump sum when you
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: are done? Most people like that because they'd rather, you know,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: use their paycheck to like make their day to day
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: stuff and then like, oh, I have this whole return
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: waiting for me when I retire. That's generally what people do.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: This is a new way. And this is another quote
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: I found really good in your article, which is the
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: guy said, my granddad worked in a factory.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: His whole life.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I don't want to lock away that capitol until I'm
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: sixty five. So there's a little Henry Hill Goodfella's situation
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: going on here, which is, if you remember the Goodfellas,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: He's like, look at all those suckers going to work
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: in their nine to five job. The mob was at
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: a better, easier way to make a living, and that
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: was the choice he made. At the beginning of the movie,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: that seems to be what's happening here. Like, that's why
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I say like this, this granddad guy that gets kind
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: of like slammed at the early I bet he was
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: probably pretty happy and he certainly didn't have any you know,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: how do you live your life? Like, if you look
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: live your life looking for shortcuts, sometimes you're gonna get
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: burned or regret or haunted. And that's why I gotta
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: be careful with this stuff. The granddad who worked in
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a factory and then got a big payday when he retired.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Again, that's it.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not I don't I wouldn't be too judgmental of
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: that life.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we need Eric needs a like a rocking chair
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: and a porch, that'd be like and then he can,
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: you know, do his carnival carnival routine from.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Them by misty and then used the payouts to get
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: your right up. But I think this is really important
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: because the economic factors, you know, the post pandemic world inflation,
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: people having a really a lot of a lot of
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: these people are really young. Not to say that they're
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: the ones we quoted are having hard time finding jobs,
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: but in general, there's a lot of young people struggling
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: to find entry level positions. I mean, we all know,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: you know, what's what's going on, and I think it's
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: important to think about some of those factors that might
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: drive people towards these.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Where they're basically just looking at the system and being like,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: the system is not working for me to find a
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: way to make it work.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Or your employer calling you back to the office five
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: days a week when you know you because one of
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: the people we did interviews said, you know, they called
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: me back and I knew I could do it from home.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: I want more flexibility. I want to be able to
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: go see my baby next you know, next to my office.
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: I want to be able to go to all ask
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: if I want to, you know, tomorrow, for example. And
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: then they'll come back and be self employed, because a
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: lot of people are thinking of it, as you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: being self employed.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: So real quick on this issue of young people feeling
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: like the system doesn't work for them, especially trying to
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: get a house. That's a real biggie. It's really hard
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: to get a house. People are in the thirties are
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: even struggling. This is a big theme in the crypto
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: book I'm Working Control, which is it's really helped me
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: come around and really understand crypto. It's the same appeal
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: because in this case it's inflation and you can't really
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: catch inflation. They say it's two percent, but it feels
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: like more. And the idea of what you used to
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: be able to get for working a regular nine to
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: five job, it's not the same. And so I think
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: crypto and bitcoin have appealed to that generation for the
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: same reason. So there's a lot going on here. I
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: think there'd be a pretty good ven diagram of like
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: the catalyst for this and the catalyst for crypto, which
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: is something that is that feeling. There's Henry Hill one,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: which is I just rather have a life of crime.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: That's you could probably be like, well that's probably not
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: a good idea, but then there's the.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Whole probably probably.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, in the end, he did fine, he did
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: go in the witness protection program. Paulie went to jail, though.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I think so moral of the story is be a
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: guy in the bottom, don't be the main guy anyway.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: You're dead if you're at the bottom, man, I think
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: we can leave that comparisons.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: But the legitimacy of not feeling like you're able to
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: get the same deal American dream style that your parents
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: and grandparents got, that's real and I think that is
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: part of this silent tax of inflation. That it's hard
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: to put your finger on it, but if you're a
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: young person, you feel it all right.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Ho Dona, thanks so much for joining us on Trillions.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to Trillions and telling that next time
• 22:00
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• 22:03
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• 22:07
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• 22:08
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• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Trillions is produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Sage Baumans is the
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: head of Bloomberg Podcasts.