Latest / Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck / Interview with John Schieke | Awakening in Sobriety

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Interview with John Schieke | Awakening in Sobriety · Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Alive and Kicking Podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Kay Eck, and this is where we talk to ordinary people about their extraordinary lives.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the podcast, everybody.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: I have with me as my guest today, John Sheik.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, John.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm super happy that you're here with us today because I've been wanting to have you on the podcast for a while.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that you've been wanting to come on the podcast for a while because you and I have already had some really interesting conversations, and we really haven't known each other that long.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Your mother happens to be one of my dearest friends.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've kind of known you through knowing her.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and then when we have had the opportunity to talk, I feel like our conversations have gone like really deep.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I really value your um your viewpoint and your thoughts and your heart and your path and everything about you.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so grateful that you are with us today.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's great to talk to somebody who likes to speak about things on a spiritual level.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's always nice.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that the truth?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, have you have you found that you've lost your ability for surface-level loving?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't say that.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I've uh I've been working through things on a spiritual level for the last few years, so which is very different from what I've done the entirety of my life.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm very much still on the journey.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have much to learn.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: All of us really.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't even matter your age.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I do want to um let our listeners know that you are are you 18 or 19?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 19.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're 19.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so um let's talk about your path a little bit.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did you grow up?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: The one thing that I knew I know about your childhood is that you moved quite a bit.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so, can you tell us a little bit about how you grew up?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was born in Germany in a western city called Köln, and I lived there until I was eight.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that, I moved to the United States, to South Carolina, and I I moved about every two years after that point, which is pretty frequent when you're always, you know, at that age, switching schools and and friends and all kinds of things.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a hassle.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Until until I moved uh to Illinois, where I live now, and I've been living here for five, six years.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and and tell us a little bit about your family, because it's a little bit of an unusual makeup.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my my father's from Germany.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: My mother also lived in Germany for a long time, but she was born in the United States in New York.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have a younger sister who was also born in Germany.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, yeah, we're a funny bunch.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: You are a funny bunch.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, what was a childhood in Germany like, as far as you can remember?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, eight's pretty young, but you must have some some memories of it.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's different compared to life in the United States and in all these little ways that you wouldn't really notice unless you went there.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: But uh financially it's it's more difficult.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a socialist-based country, rather, and uh it makes it much harder to to survive there comfortably.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you had a sense of that when you were young?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that I noticed it now that I'm older, but back then I I wouldn't have known.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: So were you in the in the school system?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I was.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And what was that like?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: How was that different?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in in most European countries, you learn English.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just it's a mandatory thing that you do in school because it's such an international language.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I was already picking up a few words of English while I was there, and uh it's a it's a different school system.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Grades one through four are uh uh elementary school, and then the rest is called gymnasium, which is like high school, but it's all the way through 12th, 13th grade.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: So you were there just for elementary school?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I made it through only the first year of school there.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: So then you move to the United States, and I and I um also you your family, you speak German mostly in your home, correct?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is that correct?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that's cool.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: I love coming over to your house and hearing you guys like break into German, like when you don't want me to hear what you're saying.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's really cool.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does come in handy like that.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: I can remember um your mom and Marie uh would speak in German at the um yoga studio often, and um, it's always interesting to listen into.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So you moved to the United States, and do you remember um how that was for your family, like making that huge of an adjustment at such a young age?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was definitely difficult at first.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's like you said, it's such a big adjustment, so many changes at once.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes a while.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: It takes a while to pick up the language, the the little cultural differences.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's a strange feeling.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the main barrier, of course, is the language.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: So can you tell us a little bit about?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: I want to hear from you what you how you would describe your like essential character, like what makes you who you are.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a fun question.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I think about that often, how I would define myself or how I would describe myself.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think I find certain words that do a best, like uh eclectic.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm I'm definitely social.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a social person.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I I try to go through life in a in a positive sense, which is more challenging than I ever thought.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I these are new goals for me, so that that sense of self is is a new thing for me.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I would I would agree with you that you are eclectic, but I feel like what makes you eclectic is your depth, and that at your young age, it's not so common, perhaps.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm wondering if what kind of challenges being a person of depth, if you would agree with that, created for you as a as a young person.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: It it's actually it's an interesting question as well, because it uh it creates these barriers within myself, because it's like almost like a struggle between um uh my my ego, my egoic self, and then ideas that I have that I know are on a higher vibration than where the ego lies.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: But especially at my age, there's people who are very, very caught up in worldly things.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you haven't been around as long, you haven't seen as much and noticed what's important, and that's that's where I struggle with the with the worldly things and with the things that are just more important than that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I can imagine that it's somewhat challenging to find a group of friends who resonate on that level.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't think there's many 15, 16, 17-year-olds who are talking about their vibration and what you know, what suits them, and how their vibration is impacted by their surroundings, by their home life, by their friends.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um were you having any of those kinds of conversations as a teen?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Were you able to find a tribe?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I was.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I but of course, not many people.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'd have two or three people with whom I can really talk about that kind of stuff.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, is that a challenge?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make it challenging?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Occasionally.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I have people that I care about very much, and even even though you know that they might not speak about things at the same magnitude that I do sometimes when it comes to that death, but that's alright.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I I'll find a group, I'll find a way to talk about these things.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: So when did you start to realize that your you your perspective was a little bit different than your peers?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I had little notions of that when I was younger.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I struggled with uh with all kinds of things my entire life, but uh I don't I don't think I really ever put my finger on it until I was about 16 years old.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that that was a time where I went through tremendous changes mentally uh and spiritually, and I I really started it really started to click that I was um thinking about things a little bit differently.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: So would you say that that was a hard path for you to, I mean, it must have felt somewhat isolating, especially since you, you know, with the moving, you were already somewhat isolated because you were always new.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that connect, you know, connecting with people is difficult in the span of two years.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's so quick.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit easier maybe when you're a kid, but um I'm just wondering if that created a sense of isolation for you.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it did.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: It made it hard, like you said, to connect with people.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's something important when you're when you're growing up to have those connections.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I feel like there's so much about you that is um you're such an old soul.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's hard to for me to even um imagine you as like a carefree little kid.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you were, I didn't know you back then, but you have you have so much depth that it I I can only imagine that um what kinds of challenges that that must have created for you as a kid, thinking you are different or not really understanding why you are different.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, did that um can you talk a little bit about the struggles that that led you to?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: The struggles of you said, can you can you repeat that?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so what I'm curious is like you talked about how being a person of death um as a young person created a lot of struggle for you, that there was a lot that you didn't really understand about it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Where did those struggles lead you?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well, when when I was maybe six or seven, I started having uh episodes which I uh I couldn't exactly explain for a few years.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually, when I found the right words to explain it, um apparently I was having disassociative episodes that uh are called derealization or depersonalization, and this happened because I was thinking too much, I was and it it put me into these very, very stressful states, which causes those disassociative episodes because I would think about things that I could not possibly know the answer to, and I don't know why I thought about them back then.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it was all about me and my existence and how I fit into this world, and I it was uh it was strange to think about it at that time.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you were you were that young, yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like it's almost like if you can imagine like this old soul with these deep questions that many of us face more of as we age dropped into like a little kid's body, a little kid's mind.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's that's like I love the way you describe that because um that gives a clearer picture to what it what it was like to be you.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like that sounds really hard.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it was a confusing time.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: So was there anywhere or um anybody that you could talk to about these episodes?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: For a long time I didn't because I didn't exactly know what to make of it.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I didn't know how to go about it because I was I was young.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: But then eventually when I did start speaking about these things, uh it was always my mother who was there for me, always.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, your mother, I consider her to be one of the most courageous and um brilliant.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I I'm like getting choked up just trying to find the words to describe it it definitely set me down a more spiritual path.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I had to think about things in a in a manner that you know kind of would rise above egoic structures, if that makes any sense.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't I had to think about things in a higher sense to be able to understand why this happens to me and what to do with it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my my mother, she was always right there beside me, you know, she she did everything she could to help me with that, and it helped a lot.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: She did.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think like, how would you describe the egoic structure?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think like a lot of people your age and a lot of people my age aren't even aware of the differentiation between the egoic structure and the higher knowing or the higher intelligence, or however you would describe it.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Can you talk a little bit about that and how you learned about that?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: The egoic structure.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I really started to have a better understanding of of that when I was about 16, when I uh when I started noticing really intensively how things were different and uh when I when I went through monumental changes.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm sorry, you asked how how my understanding of the egoic structure developed?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And what that actually is to you.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's a big thing.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the ego is kind of hard to describe sometimes.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's uh it's its own being, it's a it's a it's a part of you.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's a part of you no matter how how wise or spiritual where you are.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You you have an ego, that's how we live here on this planet.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's the challenge.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the that's the idea.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I really started to notice the ego when I was 16.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: That uh that it was there, making decisions, doing things, stopping me from doing things, and causing me to be, act, or feel certain ways.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Which is strange when you first realize that that there's uh there's a higher way of thinking about it, there's a higher way of going about it that really leads to a different outcome.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh the ego is made to hold you down in a sense, so that you can become stronger.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because overcoming that is a monumental um challenge, it's not easy, it's it's not supposed to be easy, and it's hard to even see that it's there because we are not naturally inclined to see it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: We have to we have to train ourselves to see it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I like to describe the ego as like the personality, and so before you realize that the personality is different from the consciousness, you feel like you are your personality, like I'm stubborn, I'm crabby, I'm bright, I'm whatever, you know, like all these ways of seeing yourself, very much having to do with the personality when you're inside of it and have no awareness of anything else.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: There is nothing else.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's who you are.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so you will act and behave and behave and think in certain ways that are protective of your of your lower nature, you could say, like your body and your way of thinking and your ideas.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when then what you're describing to me is an act of awakening when you suddenly realize that the ego is you on a certain level, but there's also something else that is observing the ego, which is the consciousness.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: So to you know, um this that almost feels dissociative when you first realize that what the heck?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you're just like sitting there looking at yourself, knowing that there's a part of you that isn't that, it's like a little trippy, you know.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um so, and to have that happen, uh, I I feel like such a kinship with you because I also was always really contemplating the bigger questions and the deeper issues, and it's hard, and if you're not like that, it's hard to describe how painful that is to be um someone that nobody understands.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And when you look around you and you seem to be the only one contemplating these things and thinking this way, you definitely start to think there's something wrong with you.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it can be a little bit scary too.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering if any of that kind of resonates for you about your journey.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure, it can be can be very scary because we we naturally feel this need to understand, especially things that have to do with ourselves, because that's how we survive.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: We understand, we we calculate, and we and we react.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when it's not exactly easy to understand, it it's just freaky.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's that's just the way the brain reacts because because you don't want to not understand the that's the ego fighting back almost in a sense, and yeah, it's it's uh it's a confusing time, and it's and when you finally start getting through to yourself about things, then it gets a little easier, but it's always a challenge to understand and to further your understanding of the ego, yeah, and the higher self.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: So can we talk a little bit about how you um how you chose to some of the strategies you used to cope with this um these things that were happening in your life?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for a long time before before I had a even an in depth understanding, when I when I only had then when I knew that there was something off there was something strange and I I knew what these questions and ideas were that I was struggling with at a young age I uh my what my brain would default to is to disassociate when I when I came into these very very stressful situations because I because I made them stressful for myself because I was a little bit too young to understand and that stuck with me that that um that stress that uh inability to understand myself because they wouldn't go away higher questions and higher feelings like that they're not easily shaken because those vibrations they stick the high ones which is a good thing in the end but I was actively trying to either understand or get away from them anything that would make me feel better and um all I had to do was actually give in and appreciate it and everything would have been much better but instead I I spent years addicted to drugs and and just lost doing everything I could to avoid myself my state of mind and myself yeah can you describe because I think it would be really helpful for people especially young people what that experience of dissociation feels like how would you describe it it can come in different intensities but um it's a reaction that the brain has in in high stress situations or after a traumatic experience when there's no way to get away so the brain disassociates pushes itself away from the situation and it feels like an out of body experience you um you're not exactly thinking straight you're not exactly connected to your own physical body it can be that intense too and uh it's scary in itself it's um it really is it's it's just a distant feeling of um disconnection you know I've never actually heard of um dissociative experiences that weren't related to physical trauma but the way that you're speaking about it is like this this like really mature I guess you could say or um that doesn't sound like the right word but this really advanced way of knowing yourself because you were so young was traumatic you know like it wasn't necessarily physical trauma so that's kind of like a new idea for me and I'm wondering if there's not a lot of people out there who have experienced similar things just like the amount of stress or worry or confusion that can actually cause that kind of um that kind of reaction so how did you learn about that how did you come to understand that that's what had happened to you I really started understanding that um in the last few years um while I've been sober and clear minded I really came to understand that I uh I was so immensely terrified of these things happening in my mind and I I honestly am still understanding everything that happened at that time I know that I was having just these these thoughts and these ideas that and I don't exactly understand why I reacted that way I think that my best explanation for that is that I was just too young to be thinking that way and I don't know why I was thinking that way at that time in my life I really I really don't know but I I look to understand every day I try to uncover more but yeah just traumatized myself yeah and uh and through that my my mind felt the need to get away so yeah how how did the drug use affect you in terms of what you were experiencing was it a relief of that yes I was using primarily downers uh medications that and substances in general that will lower your state of consciousness and and essentially put you to sleep so I didn't have to think anymore I didn't have to do anything I could just be but it's not really being it feels that way in the moment that everything's fine but it's it's an illusion.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: So can you talk a little bit about the progression of drug abuse because I think that's really um important.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it I find it so um I don't want to say interesting but the way that you describe why you started doing drugs and the appeal of it and the effect of it initially makes it so easy to understand why somebody can can walk that path you know it's it's not random it's like has a purpose.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering if you can help us understand how initially that path helped you but then actually started working against you well when I first started with any kind of substance it was uh it was just marijuana and I was I was very young to be doing any of that way too young.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: How old were you I was I was at at the end of seventh grade so it was about to be eighth grade which is which is very young I was what um 13 14 yeah because I knew I knew I had to try something to get away from myself but um yeah and I did that and I didn't like it so much and I didn't do it again for a long time and then when I was actually I think I did it again then when I was 15 at when I was um uh freshman in high school is when it really started to pick up I started smoking every day and and trying all kinds of different things and um it just started getting bad it starts speeding up and speeding up because uh I noticed that in high doses and then in distracting myself I can efficiently get away from myself for at least a certain you know a short period of time and so you you progress and you progress to to drugs that are harder and more dangerous and they they do what you want them to do they have the desired effect they put you away for a while and it just got worse and worse and worse for years yeah so it's pretty tough pretty tough route for you for you and and your family so do you think that there was um something some intervention that could have helped you either from your family or from teachers or whomever they tried they tried so hard to to to show me that I was being destructive they really did they tried all the time but I I had I had a very very defiant attitude in general most of my life I had actually somebody um a psychiatrist at one point um um what's it called prescribed me you know um said that I had um defiance disorder and uh I don't know I don't I don't know if I like listening to psychiatrists all the time but maybe yeah I think more has to do with the head and spirituality than thing can be understood by by psychiatrists right now but that's just a theory yeah and so with that defiant attitude I that just furthered my that feeling of don't don't listen to that you you have something that makes you feel better sometimes so you keep on with that.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it feels like there was like such an element of desperation for you that whatever physical side effects the drug use was having on you was not enough to make it not valuable to you in terms of what it was the relief that it was the short-term temporary relief it was providing you.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and that became more and more apparent to me the worse and worse it got the terrible effects it had on my life my family's life my friends my life in general every aspect of your life is is rotted and corroded by drug use it's it's a disease and it's a terrible disease because it happens slowly and it just completely takes you over and as it as it went on I realized that I I why I was using these drugs and why I hadn't stopped and I still didn't stop even when I knew yeah and because because it became a physical addiction as well like two you know that makes it like doubly hard it's working on two levels it's got you physically and it's got you mentally and a lot of people don't overcome it you know because of that reason so how did you how have you gotten to this spot where you are sober and clear headed and and I just want to acknowledge that this is an ongoing process for all of us and um you know but what how did you get to where you are today what was the turning point well in February of this year well actually before that the first thing is I found out I was going to be a father and that that moment was earth shattering in in multiple different ways it was terrifying but it was also amazing to know and that that was the first thing the first time I had this creeping notion of you have to you have to stop this you are destroying yourself and that child deserves a father that was the first time I really really knew that it was time but before I before I accepted that I let my fear of that even get the better of me I thought about how terribly confused and damaged I was and how I I wouldn't be ready to be a father I would just damage the child as well with with all of my my issues and and my my mental incapacity for being in life and then in February of this year I was I was with a friend in my own car sitting in the passenger seat driving down a bridge and I had I think it was 10 15 minutes before taken a few um benzodiazepines and then semi knowingly what it was snorted fentanyl and heroin and in lethal doses without really knowing and the last thing I remember is is being on that bridge and then just darkness complete darkness and the next thing I remember is being pulled out of the car because um the the police hadn't had gotten there in time because they were right behind us.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a few miracles at play there the reason that I survived because I had fatally overdosed on fentanyl and heroin and the reason that I survived is because there was police right behind my car because the driver was driving erratically and so as soon as I fell over and was no longer breathing he started driving very erratically and we were immediately pulled over it's the first miracle.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: The second miracle is that that officer just out of his own goodwill was carrying Narcan which you do not need to carry.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: No officer is required to carry it but he was and he had enough to get me breathing again three rounds 12 milligrams of narcam which is a lot wow wow that's super intense and overwhelming yeah so what happened then well then the literally right afterwards you know the next thing I remember is a moment in the ambulance and then the hospital and my mother was there and the doctor who said that I had a very very close call and that I I could be dead and that I'm lucky that I'm not and she she said to me in there she said to me that you you have you have to stop this and I I said yes yeah and then I never never went back that's super powerful so did you go to rehab I did what was that like it was great it was uh it was very helpful yeah it was you know they helped me get over the physical part of it you know when you're withdrawing and vomiting you feel like you're actually dying because of the medications I was taking it actually rewires the way your brain works it completely rewires it so that when you're not taking it your brain quite literally goes to the emotions of death like that you your body is lacking something it needs like water and yeah getting through that and then the absolute hardest part is the mental part the not taking something to feel okay because once your brain has got the notion that all I have to do is take something and I will no longer feel this pain shame depression whatever it is you are hooked that was the hardest part getting past that realizing that I have to find those things in life without anything because that's that's what's important is finding my way through this life sober.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it's um immeasurably difficult I can I mean I haven't been through that but I can imagine how difficult that was so when did you begin to see the light how long did that process take you uh when I started um as in from when I started taking drugs and when I stopped um from the time in in rehab when you when the pain started to become manageable when the physical symptoms started to subside well when I first got into rehab and it was only a 30 day program I stayed there for 30 days and in the beginning I thought I'm not quitting drugs.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Drugs are my life this is what I do I'm not stopping because that was still so deeply built into me even though I knew that I was going to die if I kept doing what I was doing there was no question about it.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was I had moved on from from drugs that you can you can pass with you know that you can take unnoticeably I was at drugs and the amounts of drugs that that I was going to die it was no longer benzos that really got me I couldn't really take oxycottin anymore which I took every day I had to take fentanyl because it wasn't strong enough otherwise and I knew that I was I was gonna die so I kept doing it so I stuck through I paid attention I got past my my pride and I and I got over the pain I accepted it and I sweated out and then when the when the physical symptoms started to to slow down the mental symptoms really really kicked in even more and that was like I said that was the challenging part was being somebody without drugs because they become you they become what you do where you go who you're with what you pay for they say jump you say how high there's it's just it's a cycle it's terrible but I think it was about actually halfway I'd say 14 13 days into the program where I started realizing that this was very important that this was a life and death situation and that living sober could be better than on drugs which is a strange concept at first because that's what you know yeah and when I I started really really paying attention to to that feeling I started getting better I started listening to the stories they told I started reading from the book I started accepting the steps I started listening to the other people who were in there and I started to realize that that I have things I need to deal with yeah it sounds like you were really in a wrestling match with your ego yes yes that's a good way to put it and that's that's difficult that's really difficult.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's really important to talk about that process because people in the grips of it they need that hope like did you were were like people giving you hope that you were holding on to or was this completely coming from within you well you know you find people in the program who want to change and there's people who don't there were of course people who helped me who told me things that helped me that that that gave me that you know that helped me that that gave me some hope that I could do this because that's that's another big part of it is when you realize that you can do this it seems impossible at first but then when you realize that you can get sober and live that way it's uh it's it's a mind-opening experience because in some sense you you don't want to keep doing that you don't want to be there anymore because your higher self is always there for those moments to to let you know when it really matters to give you that high vibration that sticks.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah but so yeah so the the this path of spirituality which it sounds like you've been on since you were six years old um which I can relate to has been sort of an over overriding theme in your life that's kind of like always been there waiting for you to sort of pursue it or to agree to it or I don't know how you would describe it.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: What so was there some point where you had to give in to that or to accept it that your path was spiritual yeah yeah and I'm in the process of that now still really getting to the bottom of things understanding what I went through back then.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: For the first time in my life I'm looking back and I'm not looking away to to just to understand Kind of connect with my inner child as well because he was so abandoned by me in that sense.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it was always there waiting for me.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it it dictated much of my life.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I I am on a spiritual path.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I accept that.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't think it's I think I should count myself lucky that I get such an experience.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think everybody's just handed that, you know, that from from from that age, just from that that point of view, just given that.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why I was more inclined to throw it away.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I was just so afraid.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't know what to do with it.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a lot.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a lot.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: So are you able now to have compassion for that child that you were at that time given such a big, huge mission package, weight, light.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, it can be described in all the ways.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I do.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have compassion for my younger self.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: He went through a lot every day.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot of struggling.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's another reason that I got to where I got is because I struggled, continued to struggle because I'm from belief that struggling brings perseverance.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, strength, right?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't get strong if you're just punching against the air, you know, there's got to be some resistance, strength training.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you became a father in the midst of getting sober.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of incredible.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: So now you're a 19-year-old father.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: What has fatherhood taught you about yourself?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, it shows me a new side to myself because um there's this reaction that I have when when it's about my child, when I'm thinking about my child, it's just so different from anything that I've ever experienced before.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's it it puts me into a this state of mind, like that I would I would do anything for that child.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would, I would, I don't know.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: See, it's hard, I can't really put it into words.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: I would just I would do anything for her.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, pretty miraculous, right?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: And she's such a cutie.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: She I think it's so funny that she looks like your dad.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, she does.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: All right, well, um, is there anything else that you um might have to offer to parents who are um in the midst of this struggle with their children or themselves?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I hope, I hope that anybody who who hears this and and is going through something similar, whether it's you, whether it's your child, whatever, whatever it is, that you you give them hope that they they can do this, and that you that you really that you can accept that they're they're stuck in this just as much as you are that it's a disease, and that they're caught, and that part of them does want to get better, and you just have to give them the opportunity to see it, however, you can.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, um, being friends with your mom as your family was moving through this really challenging experience, um taught me so much about what love really is.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um I think that you know, there's there's not a clear path through this as a parent with a child who's addicted to drugs.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I I maybe someday we can have the both of you on because I feel like your mom kind of um she's a bit of a trailblazer in terms of how she handled this, because as far as I know, she was always um of the understanding that your highest self, your soul, had chosen this very difficult path, and that it wasn't up to her, she wasn't going to be able to change what you and your soul had contracted to do, but that never she had so much faith in that that it carried her through the difficulty, even though the human experience was so difficult.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and her devotion to you and your path of love was really something to witness.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was a really nice way of putting it too.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: She uh she really did make it through like that, and she I I like to think about that too sometimes when you know when it all comes down on me, everything that I did, everything I said, everything that I caused, it makes me feel better to know that there's a there's a point to this, there is some kind of growth to be found here.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: There is there is a struggle to overcome, and then there's there's a lot of learning to do from this experience, and I have to take that.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can't I can't live my life ashamed or hurt because it would only drag me down.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that the um, you know, that probably a big part of what you went through is the understanding of what your family went through with you.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if you didn't know that their souls contracted with their humans to be on this path with you, that would be very hard to reconcile, I can imagine.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I agree.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I definitely do that.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: There is that it was that was determined to be this way that yeah, the higher self knows what it needs, what challenge it needs to overcome, what it needs to see, what it needs to learn, and it sets you down that path in this worldly body and this worldly mind to to overcome.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's I think is if not the reason, it's one of the major reasons, it's just to learn, to become more.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sometimes when I'm you know going through a difficult thing, um that's the only thing that gets me through is like my highest self is like you know, like on a roller coaster, thinking like this is so radically fun and awesome, and I've been down here terrified and feeling miserable and wanting it to end, and yeah, so it's fun to think of it that way.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: How else how in the hell else would we get through some of the things that we have to get through?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how you parent your beautiful baby girl with the experience that you have.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're 19, so you're you're young, but you you have this old soul, and also you've been through an incredibly difficult experience.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I think I have been through a lot, but I've I've picked up a lot too.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: I and one thing that I've always noticed is that I can't really get along with people my age, I can't talk about the things they talk about.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just uh it's different for me.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: I feel more advanced in a sense, and uh I just can't relate as well, which is fine, you know.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I I would always seek out people that I um could understand better, not just people who are older, but also more mature.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I stick with those people nowadays still, you know.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I found them.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think I think of course it's gonna be a long, long process being a parent, you know, uh figuring it out, learning how I'm gonna go about things, but I've I think I'm gonna do fine.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think so, too.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um all right, well, let's switch over to the lightning round.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the first question I have for you is what always makes you laugh.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: My my mother.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: She she cracks me up every day.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she cracks me up too.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: She's crazy.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: In the best way, in the best way, yeah, yeah, it's true.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: She always makes me laugh too.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so so far, how has parenthood changed you?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's caused me to be even more sensible, even have a greater sense of responsibility, and and just even progressing in further and further in in that sense, which I feel like I've I've been doing for a while, but on a whole different level since Ava's been around.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, on a lighter note, how do you feel about driverless cars?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, it's coming, it's coming soon, and it's it's an innovation that's going to eliminate an entire area of jobs at one, you know, that's one way of looking at it, but it's also going to minimize uh accidents and stuff like that, which you know there's benefits and deficits to all technology and all innovations like that.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that in itself is an interesting innovation and it's um it's going to be good.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: I personally am not looking forward to this, primarily because I enjoy driving so much more than I enjoy being a passenger.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like driving to me, like out on a country road, is like therapy.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love road trips, I love driving.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: I can just drive forever.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I'm a little bit worried about it.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to lose that.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like a it's like a part of my therapy, you know.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to lose it.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: I like driving a lot.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe they'll be like roads just for us or willing to like risk our lives to drive ourselves.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, number four, do you make to-do lists?
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have them on my phone under the reminders app.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: I have at any given time, probably like six, seven things to do.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: I also love to-do lists, but I only use them when I reach a like a saturation point of I have so much to do, I can't keep it straight in my mind.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: Usually I'm pretty orderly in in terms of remembering what I have to do, but there there's comes a point where it's like gotta spill it out.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's too much, it's breaking my brain.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so number five, what would you like to change about the world?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think if I could, I would get everybody the chance to see the difference between, and this is uh more of a spiritual thing that I would give to to people, the the ability to to differentiate ego, higher self, and and just the ability to see it.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I I believe just that would give so many people the opportunity to to change so many things about themselves and to see so much.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, when you're as you're saying that, I'm realizing how much of our human struggle actually takes place on that egoic level, and that the observer is so neutral, it doesn't really have a lot of feelings about it, it's just observational and it's neutral, and it's like way easier to be there than to be in the human struggle.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't lessen the human struggle, but it gives it like a higher perspective.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, okay.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, what an incredible gift that would be for people.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so did you bring a question for me today?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was gonna ask you if you believe that all things happen for some greater reason, designed by the universe or something of that nature, uh, for another greater reason, if there is some reason that everything happens or some some notion that causes it all to be the way it is.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's always been really easy for me to see things from that perspective that everything has a higher reason.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and a lot of it is what you spoke of.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's about learning what I came to learn and having the experiences I came to have.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um but a part of me wants to would I would like for there to be an even higher purpose than that, um, that I perhaps have not quite gotten to yet, you know, like a higher level.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, it's in a way it's all it's sort of motivating and also um pacifying to know that we're always going to be knowing more and more and more, like our consciousness is ever expanding.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's a greater and greater perspectives from which to view everything, life and death and everything else.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of keeps me in that in my comfort zone that, like, okay, I'm gonna know more, I'm gonna understand this.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but while you're in that void, and and it's I feel like I move in and out of those voids where sometimes I'm really certain as to what the higher purpose is, and sometimes I'm not.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it just so happens that you've caught me in one of those voids where I'm uncertain about what's next, it's um not clear to me, and but this time around, I'm comfortable being in that place of not knowing because I've been there so many times before and been shown that oh, yes, here's what you are gonna learn next, or here's what you gain from that experience.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not really comfortable to be there.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I knew maybe a little bit more about where I'm headed, but um, right now I don't, and I'm able to accept that that is a place that I am occasionally, and then sometimes I'm not there.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if that actually answered your question, but the the takeaway I think is that this human experience is so rich and so complicated and also so simple that the the greater the more you can become the observer of your human experience, the more ease you have in it.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know how to explain that to people other than just be open to it, be open to the idea that there are multiple levels from which to understand life and experience life.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that answered it either.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean that was that was a really nice answer that resonates, yeah.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's like it's part of this um, you know, you if you think about the like let's just say call it like the God state, which is like all knowing.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard for me to even imagine that, but um that perspective, I can kind of understand why humanity wanted to have this experience.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's pretend that we don't know anything and then work our way back to where we were, which was to know everything.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, wouldn't that be fun?
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, oh my god, it's horrible.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: But you don't know that until you get down there, and then you know, you start to climb the ladder, and it's a little bit better, and you get to see a little glimpse, and that keeps you moving in that direction, and you realize that there's nowhere to go but in that direction, there's nowhere else to go, so it's like I don't know, it's it's kind of a crazy journey.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think we just have similar opinions in that sense, in that way of thinking about you know the greater self, and and those kinds of questions, those kinds of ideas.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I think about things in that sense too.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: I also want to say for young people who have had who have are having experiences like yours, because I'm sure they're out there, maybe even more so now that the vibration of humanity is raising as a whole, that you're not alone.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: This you've your soul has chosen a particularly challenging way to go about this, to drop into such a little body with you know limited mental capacity, but you're not alone, it's gonna be okay, you're gonna make it hang in there.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I do believe that there are people experiencing what I'm experiencing, and I'm sure there are young people as well, because I do feel like the that humanity's vibration has gone up in the last few years.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why exactly, but it feels that way.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good thing.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and yeah, I'm sure, you know, I'm sure that there is a purpose to it, that there was a reason that's happened now, that there is something to learn, something to overcome, something to take away from it.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, John, I really want to thank you for being with me today because I just want to acknowledge how much courage it takes to be open and be vulnerable and to tell the truth of your experience.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I really appreciate that.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I know it's going to be helpful to a lot of people.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I really had a lot of fun.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was nice to speak with you.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: I look forward to um seeing you again soon in person.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that'd be nice.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.