Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / What we’re hearing about Moisés Ballesteros plus scouts on the Cubs’ pitching staff

Transcript

What we’re hearing about Moisés Ballesteros plus scouts on the Cubs’ pitching staff · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Sade Charma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Patrick.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Uh, you had a good article on Moyses by Asteros.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: The other day.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Uh was that today? Whatever, it doesn't matter, nobody knows
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: what data is anymore.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I've written about him twice, I think in the last
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: week or so, so that's my Uh.
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Uh, they were both great articles.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's your guy now.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Uh. I think a council had had a funny little
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: bit about him, basically saying, Telly, he told his hitting
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: coaches not to mess with him. Get kind of walk
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: us through the the you know, the the back and
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: forth there and and kind of like what these what
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: these guys see with Moyses by stairs?
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Who who we know?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Since he's been a like been on the prospect radar,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: like pure hitter questions on defense, but not many questions
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: on offense.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: So, but like, what are you hearing about him?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: And what is the likelihood that he's just kind of
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: locked in here as as DH to start the season.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: That's kind of where it came from.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Earlier, when I got back to Arizona and took over
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: for you down here, I had some interviews kind of
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: banked on on Biasteros.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: And I was curious, like, is this guy going to.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Be the primary DH We hadn't really gotten that confirmation yet,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: and still Counsel won't go there as of.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: The other day.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Maybe he will finally this weekend, but just the way
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: they talk about him is like this, this dude getting hit.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: This guy does not stop hitting, and you know, our
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: indications are that he will get some nice runway. It
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: will be harder as someone who at the moment doesn't
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: really have a defensive position. And it's telling that the Cubs.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: Have not closed the door on him, you know, being
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: a catcher.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: But he's not going to have that Pete Crow Armstrong
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: sort of runway of.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Hey, just just go play gold, go.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: The defense in center field and you're good. We'll figure
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: out the rest later. But once again confusing days. But
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: the other morning, I believe it was Wednesday, someone asked
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Counsel just about by a stairs because he hit two
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: home runs in that Saint Patrick's Day night game against
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: the Angels, and he's like, you can see it's in there,
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: the power.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: He's such a.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Naturally gifted hitter, and he's so young that like that's
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: going to happen.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: He's going to hit a lot of home runs one day.
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: And he told this, you know.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: The little little anecdote of gathering the hitting coaches together
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: this spring, and he could tell they were getting a
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: little bit nervous, and he was just like, stay away
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: from Biasteros. And then the council's quote was joking, you know,
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: but they got the message.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: And I just heard that.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: It wasn't that one wasn't my question, but I was like, oh,
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: that's like a perfect little snapshot.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: See what council thinks of him.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I think it's sort of an allusion to just all
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: the bells and whistles of the Cubs now have and
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: just is measured.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: You see this, you saw at.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: First, this enormous facility now dropped into the sorry, this
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: enormous building just dropped into the middle of the Cubs
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: complex with their hitting and pitching labs. And you know,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: I think with most players hitting or pitching, there's this
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: tendency to want to like, you know, draw more out
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: or you see this and you start imagining the possible
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: abilities and with Moises, it's like, look, this guy just
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: has hit.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Everywhere he's gone.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: That's why he got a one point two million dollar
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: signing components, And yes, there's more athleticism in there. I
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: thought it was interesting the council really complemented his instinctual
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: feel for the game. You know, for a young player,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: he thinks catching has helped him in a lot of
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: different ways. Someone who ran like a six point eight
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: sixty yard dash as a teenager, Like, there's a lot
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: to work with here. But Council was more, let's just
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: give him, give him the bat, give him att bats,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: and let him hit because that's what he's done, rather
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: than trying to like fix something or tweak something or
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: try to you know, turn up certain elements of his game.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I mean, you talk about the home runs,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: you talk about that that's something that he's not really
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: known for just yet. The power hasn't really actual eye fully,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: but then you see these like these aren't cheapies. These
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: are four hundred foot plus you know, one hundred mph
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: plus rockets that he's hitting, and they're like, I didn't
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: see them, but it looks like they were to center
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: field when he really starts coming into his power is
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: like and rarely understands what he can do. He's going
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: to start pulling the ball more like taking chances understanding
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: when he can do that. But he's not like this
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: pure pull hitter power guy, Like he will hit line
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: drives all over the field. And I think that's kind
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: of what Council is probably getting it, Like, don't force
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: these things with this guy, like the power will come.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: See what he.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Did the other night, whatever that was Tuesday night. He
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: can do it. He can hit home runs. But this
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: is going to be this is the old debate that
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Council was having earlier this spring to guys try and
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: hit home runs. Certainly don't want that with someone like Biasteros.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Just let him hit and and like this is like
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the old school developmental path that you talk about.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Power.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Power comes later in the in a uh, you know,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: players development, and it's kind of like the last thing
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: to come together. He'll learn how to do that. He's
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: he seems like he's a pretty smart hitter when it
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: comes to like he knows what to do with the plate.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Has a good chance to have like a really good
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: season for for the Cups. I think you know, obviously
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about offensively because that's where his value lays lies.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: But I like, he just seems like someone like if
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: you want to wanted to bet purely on a bat,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: like that feels like a very easy bet depth wise,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: you know, like it seems like he's the likely guy
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: just like kind of stick him there and and like
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: you said, he's gonna have to hit to kind of
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: keep his position.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Or keep his spot on the roster behind him.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: You know, it's starting to it's looking interesting. I guess
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: with the the Saya injury, nobody really taking control and
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: saying like this is the definite guy that's going to
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: be in right field to start the season. We've seen
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: some fence for Matt Shaw, a lot of praise for
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the work that he's putting in and his athleticism out there,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: but he's making mistakes every now and then it's Confordo
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: the opening date right fielder. Who are these extra outfielders
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: do they take advantage of options with the guy like
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: el Contra and keep it like he someone like him
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: feels like he's likely to be sent down things like that.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Long is a name you mentioned before, or he's
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: I guess like that feels pretty obvious that he's being
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: sent down. But you know, like these are there's a
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: lot of names now that with the say injury, it
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: just kind of like we it's all up in the air.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll learn more.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: But by the time we record again, I think we'll
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: have news on sayup. But right now a lot feels
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: up in the air more than it did whatever a
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: week ago.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's gonna be guys who don't make teams,
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: guys who use opt outs, and the Cubs are kind
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: of have that possibility on their radar as well. And
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: you know, look, we can't we can't assume that Biasteros
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: is just like a given and that he's going to
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: be like the d H for a team that thinks
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: that can win a World Series this year. Like that's
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: a lot of pressure, especially if he doesn't have defense
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: as kind of an outlet to generate value you and
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: maybe take his mind off of his hitting. But you know,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: you kind of got to go back to the start
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: with this guy. And you know, during the playoffs last
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: year at Wrigley I spoke with Louis Ohowa, the Cubs
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: head of international scouting, A longtime guy who you know,
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: going all the way back to like signing Miguel Cabrero
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: with with the Marlins. And my thought was, you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: you and I were both just trying to collect as
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: much bold to do interviews before these games when we
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: have like hours to kill and we don't have the
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: pregame couplous access, and you know, I just told him,
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: I was like, look, you know, just knowing moist Us
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: a little bit, it seems like, you know, and the
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: way the playoffs work, you know what if he has
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: like a like a big moment, like I want to
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: just kind.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Of get Louis thoughts on how they signed him.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: And you kind of his backstory, and Louis and Moises
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: didn't get that moment in the postseason, but he made
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: both postseason rosters, which is certainly telling in terms of
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: what they think of him. And Louise kind of anecdote
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: was you just kept getting all these videos on Moistest
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: and he finally had to tell the group like stop
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: sending me the good videos, like where are the bad videos,
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: and responsors like we don't have any. Just like every
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: time they saw him, he was just like hitting balls
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: into the gaps all of you know, right on the button.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: And so they staged this workout in Venezuela to kind
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: of get him out of his comfort zone and throw
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: a lot of different pictures at him. You hard stuff,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: soft tossers, off speed, you know, vlo, you name it.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: And it was the same thing. He just crushed it.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: And so obviously that is a lot different than doing
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: it Dodger Stadium or you know, in New York whatever,
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: or every day at Wrigley Field. But it certainly was
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: an insight into like from the jump, you know, they
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: thought this guy had a special hitting traits about him
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: from the left side, and he's done that in the minors.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: He did it in the majors last year again September.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: But like, when you put all these pieces together, I'd
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: be surprised if he doesn't wind up with a very
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: nice opportunity here at the start of the season.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that anecdote.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And I think he even said, I think you had
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: a quote from him where he was like, I don't
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: think I like, I think I had all my best,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: like best moments in front of Cubs.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he kind of he kind of smiled when I
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: when I, you know, mentioned that to him.
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: He kind of knew knew I was talking about there.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly someone that Cubs fans should be excited about.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, obviously, if he ends up developing
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: as a catcher, that be huge for the Cubs. But
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: it seems like he's like value alone on offense. There's
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: there's plenty there that he can bring to the table
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: and impact this team in a positive way. Let's take
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: a quick break and come back and talk about some pitching.
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• 13:30
  Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, We had a little uh pictures survey
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: that myself, Andy McCullough, and Will Salmon did. We email
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: text with a bunch of scouts and then get as
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: many people as we can to.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Respond and.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Basically the ideas you get like the top I think
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Andy puts together the pitching the pitching list, and so
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: we eliminate guys that were hurt last year for most
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: of last year. There's some little, you know, little nuances
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: of we try and eliminate certain guys so we don't
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: like double up or get like really bland responses or
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: make the list too long.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: It's like the top fifty or top forty.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Via fangrafts war And then we add a bunch on
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: our own, like looking through like this guy deserves to
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: be on the list, and then send it to a
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: bunch of scouts. They rank them one through five, as in,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: this is a number one or this is a five.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: And then sometimes guys will put like we tell them,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: you can put an asterisk next to the guy if
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: he's a three right now, but this guy's a chance
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: to be a one, you can put that there. And
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: you know, guys like Nolan McLean, they're gonna get a
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: lot of asterisks things like that. But you know, we
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: had two aces this year, which was a jump Trek
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Schouoble and Paul Sken's unanimous aces like those that's the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: cream of the crop. I was a little surprised the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: responses I got were a little bit better, but overall,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: and I don't you know, this is all over this
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: is these are scouts from all over different teams.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Obviously, it's not just one group of teams, and.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Spots as I got on cubs pitchers were like when
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I would look through them, it was pretty solid. Looking
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: at the actual results that, you know, combined what Andy,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: myself and Will got, h I was a little surprised
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: people are down on on cubs pitching. What what did
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: you take away from that? Like we did, did anyone
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: in particular stand out to you?
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: When I first saw the story published, I just like
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: did like a search keyword search word for Cubs, just
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: so I could get at first because I was on
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: my way to the facility. I believe that morning and yeah,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: seemed a little light on the Cubs. I think it's
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: refreshing though, to get some external feedback rather than, as
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: you know, when you're in this kind of bubble going
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: to the Cubs facility every day, these practice games that
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: don't really matter. There's not a whole lot of pressure
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: on this group of pictures, and it's like, you know,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: it really in very sharp relief, pointed out, you know,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Matthew Boyd had a great season last year, but had
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: not been healthy really since twenty twenty, and kind of
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: putting him as like a back end guy versus the
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: opening day starter that the.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Cubs you know, expect him to be.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: I thought it rightly pointed out some skepticism about Edward Cabrera.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: You know, obviously the Cubs have been tantalized by his
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: potential for.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: A really long time, and I think we get that,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: but there is another side to that of just I
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: think the story explicitly says there's a belief that the
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Marlins sold high on Cabrera, and that's not just the
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: health components, Like can he throw enough strikes to be like.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: A consistent pitcher? Right, yeah, that's a high end pitcher.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I mean that is the hat.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: That has always been the question with him, and it
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: seemed like he answered those questions last year. But he
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: did it by throwing his sinker a lot. I don't
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: know if I put this in my story, but Tommy
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Hotteby's point with the sinker is, look, that's a that's
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: a take pitch the way he throws at like you
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: want that on the edges of the plate, and it's
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: a take pitch you start swinging at that. Today's hitters like,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: that's not as good of a pitch. But I'm paraphrasing
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: what Tommy's saying and like essentially saying, that's why they're
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: trying to get him back more. Like I think both
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Cabrera and the Cubs want the force seem more if
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: you look at the data he went, have you like
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: as far as using the fastballs, usage of the fastballs.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Remember this is a picture that doesn't pitch normally, so
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: his best pitches are the change up and the breaking balls.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: So that like the change up. Actually, I'm going off memory,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I think the change up is his most used pitch
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: percentage wise. I could be wrong on that, but like
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: it if he's going to use as far as his
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: primary fastball is for seem now again, does that lead
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to reversion of the of the walk rate, which huge
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: jump in the positive direction, went from like consistently twelve
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: thirteen percent walk rate to like eight percent. Eight percent
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: is like league average, but for him, that, like that's
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: an incredible jump, Like you don't usually see that for
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: a picture one season to the next, especially when it's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: been so consistently in the twelve thirteen range. If the
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: walk where he jumps well digits and especially like twelve thirteen,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: like that is an absolutely valid concern. He's only done
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: it for one year, Like this is like scouts are
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: gonna be hard on guys, Like if you've only done
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: it for one year, No, I'm not buying in unless
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: like not yet, you gotta do it again.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: He's got to do it again.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: And I totally understand the skepticism by by scouts there,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I you know, the Matthew Boyd stuff like almost seemed
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: a little harsh, like calling him like basically like a
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: four or five.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: It felt like I I mean, I guess I get
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: it again.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Like health wise, but but like results wise, he's always
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: when he's healthy, he's always been really good. Maybe the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: question is primarily helped there. But wow, that seemed harsh.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like, you know, quality over quantity, but
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: he I mean he delivered quantity last year, and I
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: mean there was a point there I think, ah, it's
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: probably like August and he's like kind of near schemes
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: in the e RA race and he's just about a
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: guy who was in the All Star Game and was
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: like at that point, you know, a halfway Cy Young
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Award candidate, that's how good he pitched. And I guess,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: you know, Justin Steele is not a part of this
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: because he was injured, and I guess Shoda did not
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: qualify in terms of the.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Thing just wasn't good enough, right, And like.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Obviously there wouldn't have been a ton of great feedback
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: off of you know, how his season ended, but the
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: year prior, I mean clearly, I mean he got Rookie
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: of the Year end Cy Young or votes. I think
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: if you're a Cubs fan, you've generally liked what you've
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: seen from showdo thus far. We'll hear more about Justin
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Steele in the next coming days as the opening day
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: roster comes together. Obviously he's not going to be a
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: part of that, but you know they've comes out of
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: targeting him sort of around when a sixty day i
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: els did would come up.
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: It's kind of right on that borderline. So we'll see
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: where they go there.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: And then I guess Kate Horton's another one who I
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: feel like maybe just he hasn't done it bulkwise yet,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: and he really seemed to kind of do a better
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: job of sort of managing games and kind of maximizing
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: the pitches he was given rather than just kind of
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: like blowing guys away. And he didn't get that October
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: snapshot either, Like if he was pitching at Dodger Stadium
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: in the NLCS, maybe he would have made a little
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: bit of a different broader impression on some of these evaluators.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he got I'm looking at this now, he got
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: two votes for like the ass was talking about about,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: you know, he he can move up to the ACE level,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: so but he's still you know, like the tier that
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: he's in right now they're voted like all these guys
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: are fours and fives. That's what they're looking at them
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: ass And and he's I believe he's the best of
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the bunch as far as Cubs pitchers who are on
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: this list. Go yeah, it's you know it not not
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the highest on these Cubs pitchers, but Kate Horton probably
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: has the highest upside and and he's probably the one
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: that like the quote that they used is a quote
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: that Craig Council gave and he basically said, there weren't
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: many challenges when Cade was pitching. He was outstanding. Now
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: it's do it again, do it over a full season.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: My guess is the majority of the scouts that saw this,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that's their response.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Do it again, do it over a full season.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: And now, well, if he does that, you're going to
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: see him in the top twenty, not the you know,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: middle twenty of this list, at the bottom of the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: middle twenty.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Really, I think he was fortieth overall, so.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously a super talented guy, but that's upside guy.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: That's a guy that, like, if.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: We continue doing this year after year, like Cubs and
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: their fans certainly hope that He's like mentioned among the
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: top ten of those pretty great pictures there.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was scared. I'm looking it up now. When
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: you assess sort of Wharton's body of work, I mean,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Noel McClain made eight starts slash year. Yeah, he's thrown
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: forty eight major league innings whatever it was. He he
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: sort of blue guys, was the total aside, sort of
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: non sequit or given.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: What we're about now.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: But I just love the comparing Tyler Glass now to
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: a West is like a Wes Anderson movie for me.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: People keep telling me he's elite, but I don't get it.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: That lined to be a scout describing Tylerglass. I was
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: just cracked up at that.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: One.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Love hearing from anonymous scouts. There are unfortunately few of
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: them out there. We see less of them at the
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: ballparks and the concierge lounges, but still just always always
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: learn something from them, and always some great, uh great
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: one liners, especially when they tie it yea stuff totally
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: outside of baseball.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some good stuff. Yeah, Like I'm.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Sure the Google doc you guys had going had lots
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: of just yes, whether things like that.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: There there is one in particular that uh that I
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: always can't returned, and Andy is so like thrilled, he'll
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: like ask me for updates. Has so and so returned
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: your email and like return the email. Yet he has
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: to be a part of this. We cannot like do
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: this without him because like I think, like probably half
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: of the one liners you see in there are from
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: one guy who just who seems to really enjoy sending
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: in some like hilarious one liners.
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, we we've actually discussed the stuff, like with McLean,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: because Trey Savage went down literally the day this published,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and we and and Andy's wondering, do we do we
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: put one hundred inning limit? Like do you have to
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: throw a hundred innings? And I was like, I get
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: where you're coming from here, but also like I think
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: it's a good exercise to see what these guys think
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: of someone like you Savage and McLean. I get it,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: like we're putting it like it's risky and it makes
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: us look like ridiculous when we have someone that just
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: you know, is now out for X number of months.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Who knows how long you Savage is out. I believe
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: it's a shoulder impingement or something like that. And whatever
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: it is. It was vague, but also like I didn't
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: love the sound of it. McLean is one of those
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: guys where people like scouts love him and like I
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: agree with you, Like it's a short body of work
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and it's like is this guy really legit yet? Like
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: where like are we gonna go all in on this
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: guy after fifty innings? But the stuff is there and
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: and it's tantalizing and it's exciting.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: So I get that.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: K didn't really show that type of wing and miss ability,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and I think that's it's always you know, the sexy
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: stuff or the strikeouts. It's like on offense, if you
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: have power and on the mound if you get swinging
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: miss stuff, you know you're gonna make money and you're
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: gonna catch you know, attention. So that's that's kind of
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: how it looks on the pitching and we can wrap up.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: We touched on this before last episode because neither of
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: us were one hundred percent sure, but but Ben Brown
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: went one inning in his last outing. I think that's interesting.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's relevant. The Cubs are always stretching guys out.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: You want as much starting depth as possible.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Is this a hint? Of what's to come for him.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: You'll get more information on that later, but I just
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: think him and his future are so interesting for the Cubs.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And I want to point out something that Tommy Hotteby
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: is very clear about. I think I've said this on
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: the podcast, but I want to make sure we like
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: emphasize this. His career isn't his career path isn't determined.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: If they shorten him up, they believe they can stretch
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: him out during the season quickly. They did it with
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Colin Ray who was in the bullpen to start the
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: season and almost immediately had to rejoin this or join
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the rotation. I think Ben Brown's future is fascinating because
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: like after this season, we have free agents of Matthew Boyd,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Edward No Not Edward Cabrera. Matthew Boyd showed him, Naga,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Jamison Tyn. That's three fifths of the rotation. That's that's right. Yeah,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of free agency. But you have, if
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: things work out, Cad Horton and Edward Cabrera at the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: front of the rotation.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Pure stuff. Guys.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: You know, Justin Steele will be coming back under contract,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: and then you're talking about like Ben Brown, like has
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: he figured something out out with this sinker you're talking
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: about Jackson Wiggins down the line, Like finally you have
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: some like this very like you know, if you squint,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: like a lot of guys with stuff that have a
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: chance to be in the Cubs rotation.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: So I like Ben Brown, don't rule him out.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: For the future for the rotation, even if they decide
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: like right now we're shortening him up because he's the
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: best possible. He's one of the better options we have
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: to go in the bullpen to start the season because
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I mean he's having a great spring.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Ben Brown talks a really good game.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: He looks the part we'll see. I think it's really interesting,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: like total like how he's going to fit into this,
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Like where they had an off day Thursday.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: They have a lot of bodies in camp. They're gonna
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: have to.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: Start moving guys out here very soon, and you know
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: where he fits in there.
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: You know, they definitely think they can map out.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: The innings to where if he's you know, four innings,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: three innings, two innings three, you know.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: To kind of fill it out.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: That's not really sustainable for the whole year, and even
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: council pointed out the other day, like if you look
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: at Ray's year, like he pitched out and.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: You know, maybe the first ten days ish of the
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: season and then you know you saw him.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: You know, I think the last game of the season
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Milwaukee came out of the bullpen. But for the most
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: part he was pretty steadily in that rotation.
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: Maybe there was one or two Chemeo appearances here or there,
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: but I didn't look it up. It's more just something
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: he kind of went out of his way to say.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Like, you know, yes, Colin Ray has a great outlook
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: on it, and yes he did a great job with it.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: He didn't complain who was ready, But it wasn't.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: As maybe back and forth as one may sort of
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: looking at that. Oh yeah, they could just do that
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: with Ben Brown or you know, Javier Asad's another guy
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: too who's kind of in that one.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: And Ray himself has been in that.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: So we'll we'll see if there are any surprises here, you know,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: down the stretch in Arizona, whether that's an injury he
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: labor jameson ty own spring, but that has been you know, noteworthy,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: and you know Brown, I think the Cups just love
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: the idea of him as a starter. I think they
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: want him to be a starter. I think that would
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: be kind of like an organizational win for them. Obviously
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: he would be more valuable as a starter, But I
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: mean this has been going on for years now, people
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: in the organizations being like, hey.
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: That's to will play out of the bullpen, Like let's
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: get that.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: There, let's just let him, let's unleash him in these
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: shorter bursts. And you know, I think one way or
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: the other, he'll wind up on the team at some
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: point contributing, and maybe it's next week, get Rigby Field
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: will see.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he has to get results ultimately, like good spring
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: or not. It doesn't you know, until he starts getting
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: consistent results in the regular season, whether it's as a reliever,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: as a starter or whatever, he has to perform. But
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I also don't want people just to rule out or
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: like put him in one lane or rule out that
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: he has a bright future, Like this is a guy
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: with a lot of great stuff.
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: But you're right, like, ultimately he's got and we've seen it.
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: We've seen it. We've seen it in the majors. You know,
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: like that night in Milwaukee, you know he's flirting with
• 32:33
  Speaker 6: a no hitter, Like I get it.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: It's just kind of at that point now where we've
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: had several years and you know, I guess I'm assuming
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: this is his last option year of like, okay, let's
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: see what he could do. And to his credit, you know,
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: he's noticeably bigger. You saw that in spring training. Not
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: that he was in bad shape before, but you know
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: he got credit from council from for having a plan
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: as soon as last season. And if I want to
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: work on this, you know, he's very thoughtful and inquisitive.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: He's passionate about his craft, you know, always working on stuff,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: trying to like brainstorming new ideas on how that the
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: v low the swinging and stuff is a different element
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: that you know they don't have in abundance. So there's
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: certainly I like the way you frame it there, Like
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: there's not just like one lane here. They could go
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: back and forth, but it's at this point remains to
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: be seen.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm I'm interested to see what he does.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: And like he's someone that I almost forget about, So
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: I like, maybe it's just me, but I like, I
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I have to force myself to like, like I have
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: to remind myself I should say that that this guy's like, whoa,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: he's got nasty stuff. If it clicks, h it could
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: be important, So we can't rule that out. We'll see
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: you what Roly has, whether it's to start the season,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: middle of the season, whatever, but someone that we just
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: can't forget about just yet. All Right, that's it for
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: this episode of Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: subscribe to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to the Athletic
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: where Patrick and I. Thanks for listening.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Everyone. Take care,