Latest / Simply Bitcoin / BREAKING: Is China Selling Their Bitcoin? (Bull Run CANCELED, Again?) | EP 1224

Transcript

BREAKING: Is China Selling Their Bitcoin? (Bull Run CANCELED, Again?) | EP 1224 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Yo, is China selling Bitcoin on the open market and dumping the
• 0:04
  price? Well, we have some new data from
• 0:06
  Reuters that reveals that local Chinese governments have been
• 0:09
  recently selling thousands of Bitcoin while America looks
• 0:13
  poised to buy more. Could China's secret selling
• 0:16
  help explain why the price of Bitcoin hasn't mooned in the 1st
• 0:19
  90 days of the Trump administration despite the
• 0:23
  administration being pro Bitcoin?
• 0:25
  I've seen three wild bull markets in my 9 years in Bitcoin
• 0:29
  and this perhaps could would be the second time that China has
• 0:32
  attempted to cancel a bull run. Now what do I mean by that?
• 0:35
  Well, the 2021 bull run was really interesting because if
• 0:40
  you take a look at the hash rate and you take a look at the price
• 0:43
  of Bitcoin, it seems like China banned Bitcoin mining in the
• 0:47
  middle of the last bull run. And you can make an argument
• 0:50
  some people have making been making an argument that that was
• 0:54
  the reason as to why we didn't reach 100K in 2021.
• 0:58
  So before we start the show, I do want to bring up our special
• 1:01
  guests for today. We have Jameson Lopp, CTO and Co
• 1:04
  founder of Casa and of course my legendary Co host who's always
• 1:08
  optimistic optimist fields. So let's go through some of the
• 1:11
  data. What is it that I'm talking
• 1:13
  about? So this is the Bitcoin price and
• 1:16
  the hash rate you see the hash rate absolutely fell off a Cliff
• 1:19
  it jumped it dropped by 50% and that was the first China mining
• 1:25
  ban. Now that was a blessing in
• 1:27
  disguise after the fact because after that mining band, the the
• 1:31
  hash rate decentralized in the process.
• 1:33
  Some of it went to Texas, a lot of it went to Texas, a lot of it
• 1:36
  went around the world. So it was a blessing in disguise
• 1:39
  and of course the hash rate recovered.
• 1:41
  But a lot of people were speculating essentially that
• 1:44
  China did this on purpose to essentially, you know, stop the
• 1:48
  last bull run. And as you can see the price and
• 1:51
  the hash rate that you can make an argument that there is a
• 1:54
  correlation there, right? So what am I talking about in
• 1:57
  today's news? Check out this recent Reuters
• 1:59
  article that dropped yesterday. Then the headline for the audio
• 2:02
  listeners is China debates how to handle criminal crypto cache.
• 2:07
  It goes on to say China's growing growing pile of
• 2:10
  cryptocurrency seized from illegal transactions is
• 2:13
  prompting local governments to find ways to dispose of the
• 2:16
  horde and spurring calls from courts and the financial
• 2:20
  industry for bigger for for better regulation.
• 2:23
  Lawyers said that the lack of rules around how authority
• 2:25
  should handle seized Bitcoin and other tokens, who's trading is
• 2:29
  banned on the mainland, has spawned inconsistent and opaque
• 2:32
  approaches that some fear could embolden lawbreakers and foster
• 2:36
  corruption. That goes on to say together
• 2:39
  with together with senior judges and police, attorneys are
• 2:42
  debating changes to rules that said will soon change the way
• 2:45
  confiscated virtual currencies are treated.
• 2:48
  That could be a game changer for China's crypto industry and
• 2:51
  comes at a time of hidden Sino, US tensions and Donald Trump's
• 2:55
  second presidency, coinciding with Trump's plans to deregulate
• 2:59
  cryptocurrencies and build a Bitcoin reserve.
• 3:03
  Crypto trading is banned in China and digital tokens are not
• 3:06
  recognized as legal tender or assets there.
• 3:08
  But local governments have been using private companies to sell
• 3:13
  seize digital coins in exchange for cash to replenish public
• 3:17
  coffers. Strengthened by slowing strained
• 3:21
  by slowing economy, according to transactions and court documents
• 3:25
  seen by Reuters. Such disposals are a quote
• 3:28
  makeshift solution that, strictly speaking, is not fully
• 3:31
  in line with China's current ban on crypto trading.
• 3:35
  Better supervision is press is pressing as the number of cases
• 3:38
  and amounts of money balloons, said Chen, who attended a
• 3:41
  seminar in January to discuss the issue with various
• 3:44
  officials. He goes on to say a Shenzhen
• 3:46
  based lawyer who has also attended the seminar said
• 3:49
  China's ban on crypto trading conflicts with local authorities
• 3:53
  need to liquidate CS digital assets.
• 3:56
  A senior partner at Beijing's a Beijing law firm thinks China's
• 4:00
  central bank is better positioned to handle the crypto
• 4:03
  currencies and should either sell them overseas or build a
• 4:06
  crypto reserve from CS tokens like Trump plans to do.
• 4:10
  So That's again the the lots of signal in this article.
• 4:13
  Signal #1 Even with the you know, no one is better than
• 4:17
  their incentives. Don't pay attention to what they
• 4:18
  say. Pay attention to what they do.
• 4:20
  Despite, you know, selling and trading of Bitcoin being illegal
• 4:25
  in China, local governments themselves are selling Bitcoin
• 4:30
  to kind of, you know, I'm assuming to fund, let's say,
• 4:33
  let's put it nicely, to fund, you know, local government.
• 4:37
  And the other part here, which I find really interesting as well,
• 4:40
  is there's a hint in that right, which is perhaps, you know, the
• 4:44
  central Bank of governor of, of China follows in the footsteps
• 4:48
  of the Trump administration and establishes a Bitcoin reserve as
• 4:52
  well. It goes on to say discussions
• 4:54
  have heated up this year alongside a surge in criminal
• 4:57
  cases in China involving cryptocurrencies ranging from
• 5:00
  Internet fraud to money laundering and illegal gambling.
• 5:03
  The number of busts crypto crimes have coincided with a
• 5:06
  jump in local government penalty and confiscatory incomes, which
• 5:12
  had a record of CN¥378 billion in 2023, a 2665% rise in five
• 5:19
  years, according to official budget data.
• 5:22
  A lawyer who advises local governments on crypto related
• 5:25
  issues said seize Crypto currencies have become a major
• 5:29
  contributor to local finances in some cities.
• 5:33
  So I mean, you can kind of see the moral hazard there, right?
• 5:37
  If a big portion of a local government's revenue comes from
• 5:43
  seizing crypto currencies, you have to take that local
• 5:47
  government's word that they really, really are seizing
• 5:51
  crypto currencies because they're involved in crime and
• 5:55
  not because they have a monopoly on violence and they're just
• 5:57
  seizing crypto currencies to see crypto currencies.
• 6:00
  So there's a ton of signal this article and it's quite
• 6:03
  interesting. So I mean, you could make the
• 6:06
  case that, you know, it's a lot of cell pressure.
• 6:09
  If you take a look at the the amount of Bitcoin that's held by
• 6:14
  these local Chinese government, it amounts to about 15,000
• 6:18
  Bitcoin. And now we know in April, right,
• 6:21
  that they've been apparently selling thousands of these
• 6:24
  Bitcoin for the last couple of months.
• 6:26
  A lot of people were expecting the price of Bitcoin to moon
• 6:28
  after a pro Bitcoin administration with Trump going
• 6:34
  in, but it seems like it hasn't done that at all.
• 6:37
  And another thing too that also there's some similarities
• 6:40
  between what is happening over there and what's happening here
• 6:43
  in the US is in the US. We saw this article as published
• 6:49
  in on February 21st Usus Marshall Services can't say how
• 6:54
  much crypto it holds complicated Bitcoin Reserve plan.
• 6:57
  Now part of the strategic Bitcoin reserve executive order
• 7:02
  that Donald Trump signed. He basically told all the
• 7:06
  federal agencies that they needed to report by April 5th
• 7:10
  how much Bitcoin the US federal government holds.
• 7:13
  We still haven't heard. Sorry about that guys.
• 7:20
  I'm important. The light just went out to do it
• 7:22
  with my local microphone. There we go, it's back.
• 7:25
  So we still don't know how much this is crazy.
• 7:30
  We still don't know how much Bitcoin the US government holds,
• 7:34
  Right. So, yeah, I mean, it's a lot of
• 7:37
  similarities there. You could, I mean, it also kind
• 7:43
  of creates the moral hazard because it's like, you know,
• 7:45
  like you are trusting these officials to, you know,
• 7:49
  essential play by the rules. You are trusting them to, you
• 7:53
  know, not skim a little bit off the top.
• 7:57
  And it seems like, you know, according to that article from
• 8:00
  Reuters, it seems like officials in China at least like on the,
• 8:04
  you know, top government level are fearing just that.
• 8:07
  So anyways, lots of similarities.
• 8:09
  This could have been the cause of the downward cell pressure.
• 8:12
  I want to get lops thoughts on this.
• 8:14
  First of all, Lop, I want to get your thoughts on just a
• 8:17
  government having a strategic reserve in general.
• 8:20
  It seems like China might footfall in the footsteps of the
• 8:23
  United States. Seems like Europe might follow
• 8:25
  in the footsteps of the United States.
• 8:27
  Do you think that's a good idea for Bitcoin at all?
• 8:29
  LOP, what are your thoughts? Well, I mean, Bitcoin itself
• 8:34
  doesn't really care. And the incentives are set up
• 8:38
  such that, you know, everyone and every entity I think has an
• 8:41
  incentive to look into using this as a long term store of
• 8:45
  value. But, you know, this is where it
• 8:48
  can get kind of funny to see people talk about governments as
• 8:51
  if they're monolithic entities. You know, they tend to be quite
• 8:54
  large. And in some cases, we see, you
• 8:58
  know, hypocritical or paradoxical activities that are
• 9:03
  coming out because one portion of the government decrees one
• 9:07
  thing and then another portion says, wait a minute, that
• 9:09
  doesn't really work for us. And I would say that I've, I've
• 9:15
  felt for a while that it makes more sense for like local and
• 9:19
  regional governments to be more incentivized to have a Bitcoin
• 9:26
  strategy because the national level governments are generally
• 9:30
  going to be more concerned with their own Fiat printing.
• 9:34
  So, you know, in the United States, I feel like it makes
• 9:36
  more sense for individual states to build up their own reserves
• 9:42
  and use that as a part of their treasury management strategy.
• 9:46
  But it's it's more difficult to kind of square the circle of a
• 9:52
  nation state that has one of the top 10 Fiat currencies in the
• 9:57
  world to also be trying to do a Bitcoin treasury strategy
• 10:01
  because those two things can't could potentially be in conflict
• 10:05
  with each other. Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:08
  Opti, what are your take? What's your take on what Lap was
• 10:11
  saying? Yeah, I mean, I totally agree.
• 10:16
  But I think it is the most interesting part about this.
• 10:20
  I think if you put China and the America in like a historical
• 10:24
  contract context, in like a monetary war, it's pretty
• 10:27
  interesting. Like if this is true, or rather
• 10:30
  if China is essentially going to be selling all of their Bitcoin
• 10:34
  at this moment, obviously they're discussing whether they
• 10:37
  should Hoddle their Bitcoin, whether they should sell the
• 10:40
  seas Bitcoin. Again, we don't know what's
• 10:42
  going on on the federal level in the US.
• 10:44
  We still haven't got a, a Bitcoin audit from the United
• 10:47
  States. So they claim to own 200,000
• 10:50
  Bitcoin. Senator Lummus has been saying
• 10:52
  that that maybe the Biden administration has been selling
• 10:54
  some of that Bitcoin. We don't know where the sell
• 10:56
  pressure is coming from. Now we are kind of getting these
• 10:59
  reports from Reuters also. We kind of have to trust Reuters
• 11:01
  on this. They're like, yeah, we saw these
• 11:03
  transactions. You know, we we don't know
• 11:05
  what's coming from China, but the point remains the same.
• 11:08
  We really don't know how much Bitcoin China or the US holds at
• 11:12
  this point. So we can I guess at this point
• 11:14
  argue that there's probably less Bitcoin at the nation state
• 11:17
  level. But again, putting this into
• 11:19
  into historical context, it's very interesting to see China
• 11:22
  make this this move. If they double down on this move
• 11:23
  and sell all the Bitcoin that they own, you know, historically
• 11:26
  China stayed on the silver standard while the US and
• 11:30
  everyone else moved to a gold standard.
• 11:32
  If they make this same mistake with Bitcoin and they go like
• 11:35
  now what, hundreds of years later to the gold standard while
• 11:38
  the US goes to a Bitcoin standard, it's going to be one
• 11:41
  of the biggest mistakes in monetary history, in my opinion.
• 11:44
  So it's very interesting to see that they are actually
• 11:47
  considering this. And again, love them or hate
• 11:49
  them, the Trump effect is in effect.
• 11:51
  It is happening ever since Trump came out and said they're going
• 11:54
  to be more pro Bitcoin. Everyone around the world has to
• 11:57
  adjust their Bitcoin stance. And we're seeing this play out.
• 12:00
  You know, this announcement that we got a couple weeks ago about
• 12:02
  them essentially Hodling all the Bitcoin that all the CS Bitcoin
• 12:06
  they get, they're not going to sell anymore.
• 12:08
  And it's going to be their strategic Bitcoin reserve.
• 12:10
  I think the same incentives and concerns that you said about
• 12:13
  China are, you know, very real concerns and valid concerns in
• 12:16
  the US. But the point remains the same.
• 12:18
  If China sells all their Bitcoin and the US starts huddling all
• 12:20
  their Bitcoin and we really are going to see a fork in the road.
• 12:24
  And obviously, I, I'm not sure if I fully agree with Nikko's
• 12:29
  theory that China killed the last bull run.
• 12:32
  Yes, there's some correlations there.
• 12:34
  I mean, hold on, hold on, hold. On LOP, what do you?
• 12:36
  Think, do you think it's a coincidence that the, the hash
• 12:39
  rate and the Bitcoin price drop the way to I'm going to pull
• 12:42
  this up because you guys might call me crazy, but I mean, I'm
• 12:46
  definitely not seeing something like it.
• 12:48
  It's it's, it's very apparent. Let me, let me pull this.
• 12:51
  Up, I mean there was it was a massive economic disruption was
• 12:55
  let's see that was in 2021. I mean, I would also question
• 12:58
  like when was all of the fallout from the credit bubble, you
• 13:02
  know, lending collapse happening might have been around the same
• 13:07
  time. Yeah, but it's pretty similar.
• 13:11
  But I mean, look, I think I think nation states should sell
• 13:15
  all their Bitcoin. And the main reason for that is
• 13:18
  that I think it's too early. Like, I would prefer to have
• 13:22
  more time for Bitcoin to be as distributed further amongst
• 13:25
  individuals before nation States and big institutions come in and
• 13:29
  Hoover it all up because there is some systemic risk here.
• 13:34
  Just think about it. You know, when when a new
• 13:36
  entity, especially one with a lot of money, comes in and
• 13:41
  decides to take a, a significant stake in this network from a
• 13:45
  financial perspective, they're going to start caring about it
• 13:48
  more. And that's one of the things
• 13:50
  that I miss is I, I much preferred the days of Bitcoin
• 13:54
  when nation states generally didn't care about it other than,
• 13:58
  you know, from a law enforcement perspective.
• 14:01
  You know, if you think about one of the scariest phrases in the
• 14:05
  English language is I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
• 14:10
  And that's, that's kind of one of the things that I'm afraid
• 14:12
  of. If the major nation states get
• 14:15
  too interested in Bitcoin is what they then might try to do
• 14:19
  from a sort of governance perspective.
• 14:22
  Yeah. Absolutely and and as the meme
• 14:24
  goes, this is the real separation of money and state is
• 14:27
  when government start dumping their Bitcoin.
• 14:29
  So I backlog. So let me ask you something
• 14:32
  else. So, you know, you've been in the
• 14:35
  industry for, for, for quite a while.
• 14:37
  Do you, does it surprise you that we're here, right?
• 14:40
  Because you know, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm class of 2016.
• 14:45
  It was the Wild West back then. You know, you're from a much
• 14:49
  earlier class. Does it, does it, you know, does
• 14:52
  it surprise you that, you know, Bitcoin has essentially been
• 14:58
  given the rubber stamp of approval by, you know, by, you
• 15:01
  know, the most powerful government on the face of the
• 15:03
  planet, you know, the most powerful asset manager on the
• 15:06
  face of the planet? All of a sudden, you know,
• 15:09
  they're pro Bitcoin? I remember in the early days
• 15:12
  that was not the case at all, right?
• 15:15
  There was regulatory uncertainty.
• 15:18
  The you know, I remember when Apple just said no Bitcoin
• 15:21
  wallets on the app, right? Like it, it was much more, it
• 15:25
  was like the Wild West back then.
• 15:26
  And I can't even imagine, you know, the, the 20, the 2014,
• 15:31
  2015 or the 2013 era, what that must have been like.
• 15:35
  So what has been your experience seeing all of this unfold the
• 15:40
  way it has? Yeah, I mean, the, the game
• 15:45
  theory in the the viral network effects has generally played out
• 15:51
  as expected, though it's been a lot faster than I ever thought.
• 15:55
  And you know, the way that these cycles of adoption happen is,
• 16:00
  you know, you you have a new cohort come in usually as a
• 16:03
  result of a new narrative and they get interested in it and
• 16:07
  they start looking at it from a new perspective and usually come
• 16:09
  up with new narratives themselves.
• 16:11
  And also, you know, pull in more popular, more reputable, more
• 16:18
  wealthy entities and and that sort of is, is how you pull
• 16:23
  yourselves up by your bootstraps from a network virality effect.
• 16:27
  And so to to kind of sum up the thing that I was more surprised
• 16:32
  about an underestimated as I underestimated how quickly it
• 16:36
  would go from being, you know, anarchists to software engineers
• 16:41
  to tech entrepreneurs to then very quickly to the like
• 16:45
  billionaires and tech giants. And then nation state level.
• 16:49
  Is that that last, that last adoption cycle I thought was
• 16:54
  going to take a lot longer to get to the nation state level
• 16:58
  where people actually take it seriously because the, you know,
• 17:02
  billionaire asset managers have taken it seriously.
• 17:05
  And and and that goes back, you know, each cycle before and
• 17:07
  before as we bootstrap this network and the reputation.
• 17:12
  Absolutely. And and Lop, like what, where
• 17:14
  are we in that? You're talking about the
• 17:16
  adoption cycle? Where are we in the adoption
• 17:19
  cycle? Because are we, I talked to a
• 17:20
  lot of people, I guess that's my job as a podcaster, right?
• 17:23
  And they always say, Nico, you know, we're still early.
• 17:26
  We're still early. We're still early.
• 17:28
  From someone who has been in Bitcoin since the early days,
• 17:32
  My, my, my response to, you know, and a lot of them are my
• 17:36
  friends. And, you know, this is the whole
• 17:37
  point about having discussions, right?
• 17:39
  My response is like, dude, the US government has the intention
• 17:43
  to buy Bitcoin. There's no way we are still
• 17:45
  early. Like that doesn't make any
• 17:47
  sense. What's your take, Lop?
• 17:50
  Well, yeah, I mean, that's why it's confusing.
• 17:54
  We're early in the sense that we're still a long ways away
• 17:58
  from what I would consider deep adoption, deep widespread
• 18:05
  adoption. This.
• 18:06
  The surprising thing like I was just talking about is how
• 18:09
  quickly it's kind of did a speed run from being plebs to
• 18:14
  billionaires to nation states. But even across all of those
• 18:18
  cohorts, the actual level of adoption amongst all of those
• 18:24
  peers in any specific subgroup is still quite small.
• 18:27
  It's just happened to to kind of jump from group to group all the
• 18:31
  way up to the nation state level.
• 18:33
  But, you know, even at the nation state level, there's only
• 18:36
  a handful of nation states that are dealing with it seriously.
• 18:40
  I think a lot of them, like China are still just dealing
• 18:43
  with it as, oh, this is just some other asset that we
• 18:46
  accidentally require as a result of law enforcement actions and
• 18:49
  now we need to figure out how to get rid of it.
• 18:53
  It's only because of what's been happening in the United States
• 18:57
  that I think other nation states will start to more seriously
• 19:00
  consider looking at this as a long term strategy.
• 19:03
  But, you know, we're still early from that perspective and we're
• 19:07
  definitely still early from a, a mainstream adoption perspective.
• 19:09
  Like I look at a ton of different statistics both from
• 19:15
  the network adoption level and from general like search engine
• 19:21
  queries and and other metrics that could kind of judge retail
• 19:25
  interest. And from everything I've seen,
• 19:28
  we have yet to really get back to the level of retail FOMO that
• 19:35
  we saw in the like 20/17/2018 era.
• 19:38
  A lot of the metrics that I follow are still quite muted.
• 19:42
  And I think that that really is a result of the fact that a lot
• 19:46
  of the inflows to Bitcoin are really coming from a small
• 19:50
  number of hands. This, the institutions are here.
• 19:52
  It's still a small number of institutions, but I feel like
• 19:57
  the vast majority of of retail people are still really turned
• 20:00
  off to the entire ecosystem. Probably a lot of them that were
• 20:04
  interested got burned in previous cycles and have
• 20:07
  basically said, you know, I'm not going to deal with this for
• 20:10
  the foreseeable future. 100% And by the way, I, I, I echo what
• 20:15
  you said was spot on. This is a chart by the way, guys
• 20:18
  of Google Trends and this is 2017.
• 20:22
  So even with the 2021 bull market and the I don't, I don't
• 20:27
  even know if you would call this a bull market whatever we are in
• 20:29
  right now, you know what Lop has said is 100% spot on.
• 20:35
  We haven't seen that that retail interest.
• 20:38
  Now my question to you Lop is it, is it because of the unit
• 20:42
  bias, right. Because I remember in 2017, we
• 20:45
  started the year, I believe it was like at 1000 or a little
• 20:48
  bit, slightly less than 1000. And if you're, you know, it was
• 20:52
  still expensive, right, $1000 is, is not cheap for, you know,
• 20:56
  the, the everyday person. But at least there was a hope of
• 21:00
  being able to acquire one full Bitcoin right now that we're
• 21:04
  sitting at $84,937. Do you think there's unit bias
• 21:09
  that goes into it or do you still believe that we're going
• 21:13
  to still see another a mania phase in the future?
• 21:18
  I mean, that's one factor, but I think that unit bias is only
• 21:22
  gonna keep the most naive and ignorant people out.
• 21:26
  And, and so from that perspective, I actually like it.
• 21:30
  You know, there have been proposals that we should, you
• 21:32
  know, rename the satoshi to Bitcoin so that we can get rid
• 21:35
  of the unit bias. But what is that really gonna
• 21:38
  do? I mean, I think that that would
• 21:40
  result in more ignorant people buying in because they're like,
• 21:43
  oh, it's cheap and I can afford it.
• 21:45
  But you know, you look at other assets and you know, people
• 21:48
  don't say, you know, I'm not gonna buy gold because it's
• 21:52
  $3000. I think they're quite clear on
• 21:56
  the fact that it's subdivisible, however you want to acquire it.
• 22:00
  And so I see unit bias as just a way of keeping ignorant people
• 22:04
  out. You know, if you if you think
• 22:07
  you have to buy a whole Bitcoin, you definitely shouldn't buy any
• 22:09
  Bitcoin 'cause you don't know enough about it to be a
• 22:12
  responsible Bitcoin owner. Absolutely.
• 22:15
  And then final question before we move on to next segment law,
• 22:18
  what's going on with this bull market?
• 22:21
  A lot of people were expecting, if you compare the cycles right,
• 22:25
  you know, a lot of people were expecting Bitcoin to be a lot
• 22:29
  higher right now. You know, as we all know if
• 22:32
  you've been in Bitcoin for a while, expectations are Bitcoin
• 22:35
  has a has a way of just destroying any expectation you
• 22:39
  might have. It takes the the route of
• 22:42
  maximum pain, but what is your take as someone who's been in
• 22:46
  the industry for a long time? What is your you know, how you
• 22:50
  feeling right now with this current cycle where we are in
• 22:52
  the movie lap? It's weird, you know, I've, I've
• 22:58
  been pretty surprised, for example, that Sailor has been
• 23:02
  able to continue hoovering up so much Bitcoin under $100,000.
• 23:07
  And I think a lot of us have had this question of like, who is
• 23:10
  selling all their coins to Sailor?
• 23:12
  And, you know, maybe it is nation states, maybe it is
• 23:16
  Bitcoin billionaires who have to fund their space launches.
• 23:19
  It's hard to say, you know, unless, unless these people are
• 23:22
  coming out and explicitly saying, you know, I'm, I'm
• 23:25
  selling a bunch of Bitcoin, then the, you know, the only folks
• 23:28
  who really know are the operators of like the exchanges
• 23:30
  and the OTC discs. And who is selling all this
• 23:33
  Bitcoin lot? Is it just Ogs that are just,
• 23:36
  they're just, they're, they're, they're just sick.
• 23:38
  They're just like, you know what I've held from 100 bucks?
• 23:42
  It's at 100,000. I'm going to go buy a house.
• 23:45
  I'm going to go buy a plane. I'm going to retire.
• 23:49
  What's your take? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there is
• 23:52
  some of that. But in general in in a lot of
• 23:55
  the the chat rooms and stuff that I'm in, it's it's just a
• 23:58
  lot of confusion. Most people, of course, who've
• 24:01
  been in the space for a long time are kind of stupefied that
• 24:05
  people would be selling their Bitcoin for under 100,000.
• 24:08
  But that's the way it goes. And you, you can only sell once,
• 24:12
  right? So, you know, eventually we do
• 24:14
  expect that the available supply that's for sale is going to get
• 24:19
  exhausted. It's just, it's been surprising
• 24:21
  that it's it's gone on for so long.
• 24:24
  But I think that it's pretty clear that some of the big boys
• 24:29
  are going to keep buying and we're going to see some new
• 24:34
  institutions coming into the space just as a result of this
• 24:37
  latest cohorts that is starting to take Bitcoin more seriously.
• 24:41
  Absolutely. And then lop like my, my
• 24:43
  question for you is, is I keep getting more questions.
• 24:47
  My question for you is like, so, OK, so yeah.
• 24:51
  So you're surprised too. Right, because we're surprised
• 24:54
  as well. Kind of anyone doesn't know, OK,
• 24:57
  My question is, is it possible now that Wall Street has
• 25:02
  essentially become involved, now that governments have become
• 25:05
  involved? Does it does rehypothecation at
• 25:09
  all concern you? Like could there be a risk of
• 25:13
  paper Bitcoin? And that potentially could be
• 25:16
  the reason as to why we haven't seen this upward, you know, buy
• 25:21
  pressure because, yeah, look, sailors been buying that
• 25:24
  Bitcoin. It's on paper and Coinbase holds
• 25:29
  it right. And he he has that Bitcoin.
• 25:32
  But if we don't have the on chain data as we have with El
• 25:35
  Salvador, at least El Salvador made their reserve public.
• 25:38
  We know at least, you know, that reserve is going up or it's
• 25:41
  going down. We kind of have to take their
• 25:43
  word for it. Or is that a naive way of
• 25:45
  looking at it a lot? Yeah, I, I wrote an article a
• 25:49
  couple of years ago when all of this ETF stuff started popping
• 25:53
  off and I basically said, you know, this is a, a systemic risk
• 25:59
  from a few different perspectives.
• 26:01
  One of them I would say, which worries me more than how
• 26:05
  rehypothecation could result in price oppression is I'm worried
• 26:09
  about your long term governance. And I'm I'm worried that if too
• 26:12
  much Bitcoin flows into too few hands, you know, we already have
• 26:17
  read these ETF prospectuses that basically give the power of
• 26:23
  deciding what the real Bitcoin is in a fork scenario to these
• 26:28
  handful of ETF providers. So, you know, that could put a
• 26:32
  wrinkle in things if we have some sort of proposal on the
• 26:36
  table that, you know, perhaps a lot of the Bitcoin ecosystem
• 26:40
  wants, but for some reason the custodians or perhaps their
• 26:44
  regulators or, you know, the governments that essentially
• 26:47
  have control over them say no, we we want you to actually, you
• 26:51
  know, economically vote against that.
• 26:55
  The rehypothecation thing is tricky.
• 26:57
  You know, for example, a lot of the futures markets are actually
• 27:00
  cash settled rather than settled with spot.
• 27:04
  So you could argue that a lot of that is kind of fake in the
• 27:08
  sense that these people aren't trading real Bitcoin.
• 27:11
  A lot of those futures markets have quite a bit of volume and
• 27:15
  and and really this is another reason why self custody is
• 27:19
  important is, you know, the only way to truly know that the
• 27:22
  Bitcoin that you think you own belongs to you is to actually
• 27:26
  take control of it. And so I think if you if we had
• 27:29
  more people that were taking self custody, that would kind of
• 27:32
  force the the true price to be to be closer to what it is or at
• 27:38
  least to reduce the risk that the price is being manipulated
• 27:41
  because the the quote UN quote available supply that is being
• 27:45
  traded on Tranfi platforms is not actually correct.
• 27:50
  Yes, 100%. I, I can't, I can't echo that
• 27:52
  enough. And one of the things that I've
• 27:54
  noticed this cycle, LOP is just, again, I'm not going to name any
• 27:58
  names, but like this kind of normalization of not owning
• 28:02
  Bitcoin, but owning like the ETF or NONI or, or owning kind of
• 28:08
  like a leverage exposure in the stock market of Bitcoin and kind
• 28:13
  of the normalization of trying to equate the two.
• 28:17
  It's like, oh, you know, I have the ETF, but it's like, no,
• 28:19
  that's not real Bitcoin. That's not real Bitcoin in, in,
• 28:21
  in spot. So I mean in self custody.
• 28:24
  So yes, I, I completely agree. It's never been as important as
• 28:29
  it is today to learn how to take self custody.
• 28:32
  And that's gets me excited because during the culture
• 28:36
  segment, we're going to be talking about Casa cops.
• 28:39
  Casa makes taking self custody incredibly easy without giving
• 28:43
  up custody. And it makes it somewhat, it
• 28:46
  makes it easier, it makes it convenient.
• 28:49
  The, the UI, the UX is absolutely incredible.
• 28:52
  And of course, we have the Co founder, one of the Co founders
• 28:56
  with us today, Jameson Lopp to talk about all things Casa,
• 28:59
  which we're going to do during the culture segment.
• 29:01
  But before we get into that, I do want to give a very special
• 29:05
  shout out to simply Bitcoins lead sponsor.
• 29:08
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• 29:11
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• 29:18
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• 29:22
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• 29:27
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• 29:32
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• 29:36
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• 29:40
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• 29:44
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• 29:47
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• 30:01
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• 30:21
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• 30:52
  Alright everybody, let's hit the numbers.
• 30:54
  We have tons to talk about. We got Lop joining us on the
• 30:57
  show. Smash that like button.
• 30:58
  We'll be right back. I want to tell you guys about
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  not allowing you to huddle your Bitcoin for the long haul.
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  on their store. Head over to stampse-ed.com
• 32:29
  today. All right everybody, we are
• 32:36
  back. At the time of recording, the
• 32:38
  Bitcoin price is $85,160. Block height 892,702 sats per
• 32:45
  dollar 1174 market cap 1.69 trillion Bitcoin versus gold
• 32:51
  market cap 7.18% Percentage issued 94.53% decline from all
• 32:57
  time high -22% realized monetary inflation .85%.
• 33:03
  I also want to give a shout out to the live stream.
• 33:05
  We have 2411 people watching live. 623 of you guys watching
• 33:12
  live on YouTube alone. If you guys are enjoying the
• 33:14
  show so far, smash that like button.
• 33:17
  Help us break 300 likes. By the end of the show, we're
• 33:20
  already at 150 likes. Smash that like button.
• 33:23
  So today I kind of want to continue the conversation that I
• 33:26
  was having on yesterday's show. And it seems like at least some
• 33:30
  senators are watching simply Bitcoin because breaking just
• 33:34
  since Senator Mike Lee calls to abolish the IRS and Federal
• 33:37
  Reserve, we've been talking about the Overton window.
• 33:40
  Take a shot. I see someone in the chat saying
• 33:42
  you guys are waiting for for Nico to say Overton window.
• 33:45
  I said it, but I kept saying this.
• 33:47
  I'm like, guys, look, it's great.
• 33:49
  We have a pro Bitcoin present in the White House.
• 33:51
  That's awesome. But I think people are you know
• 33:55
  they're they're they're they're losing the the end goal should
• 33:58
  be the to end the Fed like let's be honest here that we've been
• 34:00
  saying that for a couple weeks now yes, it's great.
• 34:03
  We have a pro Bitcoin administration yes, the end of
• 34:05
  operation choke .2 point O Ross is free.
• 34:08
  That's absolutely awesome. That's amazing, but you know
• 34:12
  it'd be dope if we ended the Fed.
• 34:14
  It'd be dope if we ended the IRS, but we have to move that
• 34:17
  over to window and that over to window seems to be shifting.
• 34:20
  It seems like the collect collective consciousness might
• 34:24
  be having similar thoughts because we have a now AUS
• 34:27
  senator, Senator Mike Lee. He calls to abolish the IRS and
• 34:32
  the Federal Reserve. And also it's not only senators.
• 34:36
  This is apparently the president does as well.
• 34:39
  So President Trump wants to eliminate income tax.
• 34:42
  Here's how much extra you take home if you make 75 KA year.
• 34:46
  We've heard Howard Lutnick talk about this as well.
• 34:49
  They their goal is to use the revenue from tariffs to replace
• 34:54
  the IRS. So essentially, instead of it
• 34:57
  being the IRS, they want to create the external Revenue
• 35:00
  Service. So the ERSI don't know if that
• 35:02
  makes sense. But anyhow, I have a video of
• 35:05
  the great Ron Paul talking about income tax.
• 35:08
  Let's check it out and then we'll all talk about it.
• 35:11
  You can't, you can't have a government like this without an
• 35:13
  income tax. But we don't want a government
• 35:14
  like this. This is not the kind of
• 35:16
  government that was designed by our founders of the country.
• 35:18
  It's not what was written in the Constitution.
• 35:20
  We've only had an income tax since 1913.
• 35:23
  If you want a welfare state and if you want to police the world
• 35:26
  and pay for the defense of Japan and Germany, send foreign aid to
• 35:29
  the Soviet Union, You not only need the income tax, you need
• 35:32
  the Federal Reserve to print up the money when the deficit is
• 35:34
  accumulated. So we think the government
• 35:36
  should be much smaller if government is.
• 35:41
  So this is exactly what we were talking about yesterday.
• 35:44
  We were talking about it. We were.
• 35:45
  We talked about 1913. We talked about how, you know,
• 35:49
  is it feasible to have a government, you know, without an
• 35:53
  income tax. And the answer is yes.
• 35:55
  But the question goes to what is the role of government?
• 35:59
  What should be the role of government?
• 36:01
  If you want the role of government to be much larger how
• 36:04
  it is today, then yes, you do need an income tax 'cause you
• 36:07
  need to pay for all of that somehow.
• 36:10
  But if you believe in small government, if that's even, I'm
• 36:14
  convinced, like even with the best intentions, it's going to
• 36:18
  be very difficult for anyone to decrease the size of government.
• 36:22
  That's my own interpretation of everything that's going on.
• 36:25
  But yeah, I mean, Lop, I don't think I've ever heard your
• 36:29
  thoughts and opinions on this specific matter.
• 36:32
  What are they, man? Like, you know, what's like is
• 36:35
  the, I'll start it off with this is the Overton window shifting.
• 36:38
  Are more and more people waking up to the idea that perhaps the
• 36:42
  Federal Reserve wasn't a great idea?
• 36:45
  Perhaps, you know, I'm not getting in return what I am
• 36:49
  paying in taxes? Lop, what are your thoughts?
• 36:54
  Oh, I mean, I think people are realizing that they're not
• 36:57
  getting what they want from their taxes.
• 36:59
  But you know, this is this is a, a common coordination problem
• 37:04
  with the welfare state where you're basically talking about
• 37:07
  wealth redistribution. So where is the money going?
• 37:11
  And of course, this is, I think the the bigger problem when it
• 37:15
  comes to the United States government and, and our budget
• 37:19
  is that even if you look at what DOGE has been doing and you're
• 37:23
  cutting a lot of waste, it's being more than offset by the
• 37:27
  spending increases that Congress is looking at.
• 37:31
  So it's kind of it's a, it's a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.
• 37:36
  I guess it's like we're, we're continuing to hemorrhage large
• 37:39
  amounts of fiscal power. And you know, you can try to
• 37:45
  look around and say, OK, we're going to change and where we get
• 37:48
  our revenue from. But I feel like it's more
• 37:53
  straightforward to try to cut what we're spending on than it
• 37:58
  is to, you know, try to find more.
• 38:00
  So a big part of that is, of course, the fact that this is
• 38:04
  Team America, world police, and we outspend everybody else when
• 38:08
  it comes to defense. So you have to ask whether or
• 38:12
  not you're OK with the United States becoming more
• 38:17
  isolationist and what effects that might have upon the world
• 38:21
  and geopolitics and the global economy.
• 38:24
  Yeah, I think it's an excellent answer.
• 38:26
  Opti, what's your take on this? I mean, it's crazy, man.
• 38:28
  We were talking about this yesterday and it's crazy that,
• 38:32
  you know, senator saying this as well.
• 38:34
  Of course you have the administration.
• 38:36
  But it, you know, as lap was pointing out, right, there are
• 38:39
  kind of you can call it trade-offs, right?
• 38:43
  And depending on, you know, what type of society you want to live
• 38:47
  in, you know, a lot of us, I think would, would want smaller
• 38:51
  government. But at the same time, you know,
• 38:55
  at the same time, you know, the era of kind of world police, you
• 39:00
  know, that has to be paid for in in a sense, right.
• 39:03
  So Opti, what's your take on all this?
• 39:05
  Man, this is an interesting discussion, bro.
• 39:08
  We're, we're moving the Overton window.
• 39:10
  You know, let's see what happens.
• 39:12
  Opti, what's your take? Well, first of all, I do think
• 39:15
  it's very interesting that we are seeing senators and
• 39:18
  politicians or Elon Musk, etcetera, very high profile
• 39:22
  people talk about this. For it seemed like forever it
• 39:24
  was just Ron Paul was the only one that was saying this.
• 39:27
  And now it does seem like it's become an acceptable topic of
• 39:30
  discourse where people are even bringing it up.
• 39:32
  You know, Trump's been saying it or at least alluding to it.
• 39:35
  We're seeing other politicians allude to it.
• 39:37
  So it is, I'm just reminded of that Ron Paul meme where he's
• 39:41
  with like the Ninja Turtles or something.
• 39:43
  And we, we're all babies. And now he's, I'm, I'm blanking
• 39:47
  on the, the, the old guy, you know, the rat guy.
• 39:49
  But it feels like Ron Paul has finally come onto the world
• 39:53
  stage and people are actually taking his thoughts seriously.
• 39:56
  It seems forever that he was just, you know, relinquished to
• 39:59
  a corner of political discourse. And now people are actually
• 40:02
  bringing these ideas up and taking them very seriously.
• 40:04
  Now to the actual question of will they eliminate the Fed?
• 40:08
  I mean, my personal bias is that of course you know the Fed isn't
• 40:12
  federal and has no reserve. It's the biggest Ponzi scheme in
• 40:15
  the world right now and it should totally be eliminated.
• 40:18
  It's a cancerous institution, as Thomas Sowell would always say.
• 40:22
  So those are my views on it. But do I think that they will
• 40:25
  willingly and the Fed, I doubt it.
• 40:28
  I think they're going to be forced to basically reel back
• 40:31
  and on the idea of America being the world police.
• 40:33
  Like, you know, I know there is geopolitical ramifications of of
• 40:37
  what that would mean if we pulled back.
• 40:39
  But I am kind of, I'm kind of in favor of a little more of AI
• 40:43
  isolationism in the USI think that would be a good thing.
• 40:47
  But of course there, there's a lot of tricky, complex nuance
• 40:50
  conversations that have to go about this.
• 40:53
  But I'm not a fan of the military industrial complex.
• 40:55
  And as we've seen, the military industrial complex has not been
• 40:59
  turned off since World War 2, but we are now getting to a
• 41:01
  stage where it is kind of imploding on itself.
• 41:04
  The interest payments of U.S. debt are getting out of control.
• 41:08
  It's literally past the military industrial complex at this point
• 41:11
  and it's becoming unattainable as as we've been saying, they're
• 41:14
  going to have to continue to print money.
• 41:15
  So we're getting to a point now where the federal government is,
• 41:20
  is being forced to actually make these decisions.
• 41:23
  And will they actually end the Fed?
• 41:25
  Like, I highly doubt it. I, I don't think they will turn
• 41:27
  off the machine. They will order, turn off the
• 41:29
  machine willingly. They will, they will be forced
• 41:31
  to or else the, the Fiat system implodes on itself.
• 41:35
  Like we almost saw it last week. You know, Trump tried to make a,
• 41:37
  a very strong move, almost blew up the bond market.
• 41:40
  And he's like, actually, you know, this was our plan all
• 41:42
  along. We're going to have to roll this
• 41:44
  stuff back so they can try to manipulate Fiat currencies, but
• 41:48
  we're going to see unintended consequences.
• 41:50
  And of course, This is why we're bitcoiners and we constantly
• 41:52
  tell people like you want to have a neutral money that no
• 41:56
  government can manipulate. This is why you should be saving
• 41:59
  Bitcoin, even if it's a small portion of your total wealth.
• 42:01
  Like you need to have some Bitcoin right now.
• 42:04
  It's the only safe haven asset or money or commodity or
• 42:07
  whatever you want to call it. Whatever framing you want to
• 42:09
  call, it's the only safe haven at the moment.
• 42:12
  And the world just hasn't really woke up to it.
• 42:14
  It's starting to wake up to it. Someone was telling me in the
• 42:16
  chat saying that we've been calling Bitcoin main.
• 42:18
  Yeah, Master Splinter. Sorry, guys.
• 42:20
  Ron Paul is Master Splinter now. And you know, we have all taken
• 42:24
  up the the baton for him. And it's becoming a actual
• 42:29
  viable conversation in politics now, which is I think beautiful.
• 42:34
  And I think as more of us younger people grow up,
• 42:38
  especially as Bitcoiners grow up and the price of Bitcoin goes
• 42:41
  up, like this is going to be a very real conversation.
• 42:44
  It's going to happen in two years, four years, probably not.
• 42:46
  I I'm thinking more like, you know, a decade or two from now,
• 42:49
  we can actually do this. But I don't think they're going
• 42:52
  to have a choice. We all know the end game here is
• 42:54
  they're going to have to print more money.
• 42:55
  So you know the Fiat Ponzi scheme will implode on itself,
• 42:59
  but hopefully it doesn't happen as quickly as a lot of doomer
• 43:02
  bitcoiners would like it to happen.
• 43:05
  Absolutely guys, if you guys are enjoying the show 2600 of you
• 43:09
  guys watching live smash that like button again.
• 43:12
  Help us break 300 likes. By the time the show ends, we're
• 43:15
  almost at 200 likes. We're going to hit the culture
• 43:18
  segment. We're going to be talking about
• 43:20
  all things Casa, so let's check it out.
• 43:22
  We will be right back. I want to give a shout out to
• 43:26
  our partner Hive Digital Technology.
• 43:29
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• 45:26
  All right everybody, we are back and of course we have the CTO
• 45:30
  and Co founder of Casa joining us on the show.
• 45:34
  Jameson Lop Jameson, how you doing today?
• 45:37
  Could you go to another page? Opti, I don't want to look at
• 45:39
  my. Site.
• 45:39
  I don't know. You look.
• 45:40
  You look so handsome here. Now you know a lie now.
• 45:45
  You know the could you go to the regular page, please?
• 45:47
  Thank you, Opti. OK, so let's talk about all
• 45:50
  things Casa take control of your Bitcoin personally, Like I said,
• 45:55
  actually we changed up the segments today.
• 45:57
  So you guys haven't seen the the Casa ad, but what I say on the
• 46:01
  Casa ad every single day on simply Bitcoin is I've been
• 46:04
  recommending this to my friends and family for years, obviously
• 46:08
  because I want them to, you know, have all the advantages of
• 46:14
  multi key security. And some of the things that I
• 46:16
  absolutely love about the Casa app is that if you lose a key,
• 46:21
  it makes it incredibly easy to replace that key within the app.
• 46:25
  And also, I believe Casa holds a key themselves.
• 46:29
  So again, you know, there's a lot of you can make mistakes and
• 46:34
  it's not as punishing as a single key setup.
• 46:37
  Or if you lose the words or, you know, you forget the pin to your
• 46:40
  device and you lose the words. I've heard stories of that.
• 46:43
  You know, it comes to a tragic end.
• 46:45
  So, you know, Casa kind of holds you through, you know, they they
• 46:49
  walk you through this. So Jameson, I'm going to give
• 46:53
  you the microphone, you know, to our audience right now, I'm
• 46:56
  assuming the majority. We've we've done polls on this
• 46:58
  before. The majority of our audience,
• 47:01
  you know, has their Bitcoin in self custody.
• 47:03
  Why should they look at an app like Casa?
• 47:09
  I mean, it mainly comes down to how confident you are that your
• 47:15
  own setup is sufficiently robust against all of the potential
• 47:19
  dangers of loss. When you go from a trusted third
• 47:24
  party setup to a self custody setup, you generally you you
• 47:29
  reduce a lot of the risk of theft or rug pull, but you're
• 47:33
  taking on a lot of responsibility and you're
• 47:36
  opening yourself up to a lot of new potential forms of loss.
• 47:39
  Generally, you know, from making mistakes and and losing keys
• 47:43
  over a long period of time and you're getting locked out of
• 47:47
  your own coins. So, you know, there's a ton of
• 47:50
  different options out there for people to do self custody, many
• 47:54
  of which are really do it yourself don't really get any
• 47:57
  support. You know, if you want the most
• 48:00
  extreme private version of doing self custody, then ultimately
• 48:05
  you can't get help from anyone. You have to do it all yourself.
• 48:08
  And for people who have the the time and resources and knowledge
• 48:11
  to do that, then you absolutely should go that route.
• 48:15
  What we're really targeting are the people who perhaps they're
• 48:19
  not confident enough to take self custody, they don't
• 48:22
  understand all the risks and best practices.
• 48:25
  Or the people who have been in a, you know, straightforward,
• 48:29
  maybe single signature hardware set up for a long time, but that
• 48:33
  value has 10X to 100X gone through the roof.
• 48:38
  And now they are looking for something that's more robust,
• 48:42
  that can tolerate having failures happen.
• 48:45
  You, you don't want your entire life savings to evaporate
• 48:49
  because of one thing that went wrong and resulted in
• 48:53
  catastrophe. So really what we're doing is
• 48:56
  we're fighting against the convenience of giving all your
• 49:00
  money to a trusted third party. And our our primary value add, I
• 49:05
  would say, is letting people sleep better at night knowing
• 49:09
  that if and when something goes wrong, they're not going to lose
• 49:13
  access to their coins. And so there's a variety of
• 49:16
  different mechanisms that go into play there, you know,
• 49:19
  having multiple keys using a diversity of different software,
• 49:23
  hardware devices, having them distributed geographically.
• 49:26
  And then also offering an inheritance option where we
• 49:31
  essentially help you set up game theory so that you can share a
• 49:35
  key with a beneficiary and not give them access to your coins
• 49:40
  until after you actually get hit by a truck.
• 49:43
  So a lot of this is just us having spent so much time in the
• 49:47
  market, having seen so many catastrophes and people lose
• 49:52
  their coins in different ways and building our product and our
• 49:55
  service such that it automatically guides you down
• 49:59
  the best path so that you can avoid a lot of the foot guns
• 50:02
  that are out there. Totally.
• 50:04
  It looks like Puerto Rico. We lost Nico, but I I have one
• 50:08
  question. Or he's back.
• 50:09
  I'm back, I apologize Puerto Rico.
• 50:12
  And as you can tell, the power has gone out and the Internet
• 50:15
  has gone out. But I'll be back home in about a
• 50:16
  week or so. And I appreciate the the, but I
• 50:19
  did hear Jameson's breakdown and this is exactly why I recommend
• 50:25
  it to essentially family and friends.
• 50:27
  And there's two plans that you guys offer, which is the two of
• 50:31
  three set up. And then the three of five, the
• 50:35
  three of five is so cool because it feels like a two of three.
• 50:39
  Why do I say that? So because one of the keys are
• 50:43
  on your phone, One of the keys, yeah, one of the keys are on
• 50:48
  your phone. And then of course, you have the
• 50:50
  option to, I believe you have the option to have three famous
• 50:56
  to help me out here. My mind is blanking.
• 50:58
  Yeah, 3 separate hardware devices, preferably different
• 51:01
  manufacturers to eliminate potential supply chain issues.
• 51:06
  Absolutely. And then so the two of three,
• 51:09
  you have the option to have one of the keys on your phone, one
• 51:13
  of the one of the keys Casa holds.
• 51:15
  And then you have the, you have the option to use a, you know, a
• 51:19
  hardware wallet of your choice. Of course, our, our, our sponsor
• 51:22
  or partner cold card is compatible with the Casa app.
• 51:26
  And then the three of five, it feels like a two of three
• 51:29
  because essentially you can sign with, with your phone and you
• 51:34
  sign with two hardware wallets. So if you have the two of three
• 51:38
  set up with two hardware wallets, the three of five
• 51:41
  signing process feels almost identical to the two of three
• 51:46
  signing process. And I don't know if you guys did
• 51:48
  that by design or it was just happenstance, but it definitely
• 51:52
  feels really cool and there's haptic feedbacks along the way
• 51:55
  to make you feel good. So yeah.
• 51:59
  Yeah. I mean, look, we're always
• 52:00
  trying to find the sweet spot between convenience and
• 52:04
  security. You know, that's why we do have
• 52:07
  a mobile key, even though the mobile key is strictly less
• 52:10
  secure because it is a hot key. But you know, the nice thing
• 52:15
  about that key is that you get an automatic encrypted backup.
• 52:18
  And then we're also able to build a key sharing features off
• 52:23
  of that so that you can I securely share the encrypted
• 52:27
  version of that key, you know, with the inheritance
• 52:30
  beneficiary, for example. And then we don't allow them to
• 52:33
  unlock it unless a six month awaiting, you know, cooling off
• 52:37
  period goes by after which they claim that you have passed away.
• 52:41
  So there's some really interesting game theory and
• 52:46
  flexibility that you can set up when you have a multi key
• 52:50
  solution. And also with Casa, holding one
• 52:53
  of those keys offline as well just helps us be able to
• 52:57
  facilitate spending and, you know, get you out of certain
• 53:01
  situations where things may have gone wrong.
• 53:03
  It can also just be a convenience thing.
• 53:05
  For example, if we have a client who has keys that are
• 53:09
  distributed, you know, all over a country or sometimes even
• 53:12
  across multiple countries, and they don't, don't want to have
• 53:15
  to travel too much, then, you know, they can sign with their
• 53:19
  mobile key and then go get a hardware key and then request a
• 53:22
  signature from us. And, you know, we'll have to go
• 53:25
  through the authentication process that they've set up
• 53:28
  beforehand in order to prove themselves to us so that we will
• 53:32
  sign it. Absolutely.
• 53:34
  And then also one of the things that, you know, one of the
• 53:37
  things that I love that you guys do is the inheritance.
• 53:39
  And I, I keep seeing in the chat, people keep bringing up,
• 53:43
  you know, Elaine Savage comment, Alzheimer's is rampant.
• 53:47
  This could be a problem. Inheritance planning is the
• 53:50
  important thing. Also, if I get bonked in the
• 53:53
  head, I can't remember my name. So and then someone else asked
• 53:58
  is Jade wallet compatible and then Opti people are asking
• 54:02
  about the subscription. So yeah, we'll go through the
• 54:05
  we'll go through some of those questions and we'll talk about
• 54:07
  the subscription. By the way, guys, if you go to
• 54:09
  Casa dot IO slash simply you get 10% off anytime either Casa
• 54:14
  Standard or Casa Premium. They're really cool.
• 54:17
  The Casa, the cost of premium is the three of five.
• 54:19
  The Casa standard is the two of three.
• 54:21
  Both are excellent. I've personally used them and
• 54:24
  I've recommend them to friends and family.
• 54:26
  So yeah, let's go through this lot.
• 54:28
  Could you break down what the inheritance process is like?
• 54:34
  Yeah. So it will vary slightly
• 54:36
  depending upon your M of N setup.
• 54:40
  For the two of three setup, it's incredibly simple.
• 54:43
  You can onboard an inheritor and I would say about 10 minutes.
• 54:47
  You basically just have to invite them to your vault setup,
• 54:51
  they download the app, and then you can do this encrypted key
• 54:56
  exchange via QR codes between your apps and they're set up at
• 55:01
  that point. They have an encrypted copy of
• 55:03
  your mobile key, but they can't actually use it.
• 55:05
  Really the only thing they can do is to hit a button in the
• 55:09
  app, which is to kick off the inheritance claims process.
• 55:13
  That starts a six month timer. And when that timer goes off, we
• 55:17
  start contacting you and basically saying, hey, if you're
• 55:21
  still alive, you really need to let us know, you know, go into
• 55:24
  the app and cancel this claim and probably kick this person
• 55:27
  out of your app so that they aren't going to get access to
• 55:31
  your key. And if you're in a three of
• 55:34
  five, it's slightly, you know, more complicated because you
• 55:38
  have to do the mobile key share, but then you can also share one
• 55:43
  hardware key. And you know, depending upon how
• 55:46
  sophisticated your inheritor is, you know, you, you can have them
• 55:49
  use any of the hardware devices we support.
• 55:51
  But I would say we've also added Ubikey support last year, which
• 55:56
  is incredibly user friendly, especially for a long term key
• 56:01
  holder set up. Because unlike really all of the
• 56:04
  other Bitcoin specific hardware devices out there that tend to
• 56:08
  have a somewhat limited shelf life of a few years before they
• 56:14
  die or the firmware stops working.
• 56:16
  There's a number of things that can go wrong.
• 56:18
  The Ubikey is a dead simple device.
• 56:21
  I mean, you can throw it through the washing machine, it'll come
• 56:24
  out the other end just fine. So we figure that's another
• 56:28
  interesting new sweet spot to hit for less technical people
• 56:33
  trying to find that that right trade off between convenience
• 56:37
  and security. Absolutely.
• 56:39
  So the next question was, is the Jade wallet compatible?
• 56:44
  We have not added Jade's support though I'm still, I'm going to
• 56:49
  be paying attention to, you know, some of the, the recent
• 56:53
  security of vulnerabilities that came out around some of the
• 56:56
  chipsets that I think Jade was using.
• 56:58
  I I haven't seen block stream specifically respond to that I
• 57:02
  saw. Adam back respond this morning.
• 57:05
  Anything. I saw, he said.
• 57:05
  It was nonsense. But, you know, yeah, exactly.
• 57:08
  We'll see. You know, this is is a
• 57:11
  constantly moving space with the security, right is that
• 57:17
  especially the Ledger team tends to be really proactive.
• 57:20
  It's sort of offense and trying to break all of the other
• 57:24
  hardware devices out there. And and really there is no
• 57:27
  perfect hardware device and that's why we suggest you're
• 57:30
  using multiple different manufacturers devices because
• 57:33
  they all have strengths and weaknesses.
• 57:37
  So it and one of our partners is of course the cold card.
• 57:40
  The cold card is compatible with the Casa app right?
• 57:45
  The cold card Q and the cold card MK4?
• 57:49
  Correct. And then I have the website here
• 57:52
  someone was asking about the subscription so.
• 57:54
  Yeah, let's go through the let's go through the subscription.
• 57:57
  So, yeah, so there is the Casa standard, which is $21.00 a
• 58:02
  month, $250 for the year. And then the cost of premium,
• 58:07
  it's $175 a month and it's $2100 a year.
• 58:14
  And then there's private client. If you use promo code simply,
• 58:18
  you get 10% off either the cost of standard plan or the cost of
• 58:21
  premium plan. Again, I highly, highly
• 58:24
  recommend this, especially if you're perhaps not technically
• 58:27
  savvy, or perhaps you your you know, you have your parents or
• 58:31
  your grandparents and they're holding Bitcoin and you want
• 58:34
  them to hold spot Bitcoin. This is a great way and lot
• 58:39
  forgive me if I'm describing it this way, but I'm going away.
• 58:42
  It's a great way to idiot proof a self custody setup.
• 58:45
  It Acosta makes it incredibly easy, I mean incredibly hard for
• 58:49
  you to lose access to your Bitcoin because there's so many
• 58:53
  redundancies, especially on the, the, the premium plan.
• 58:57
  That's how I describe it. And that's why I've been
• 58:59
  recommending it for many, many years.
• 59:01
  Even before they were a partner, I was recommending Casa.
• 59:04
  So anyways, guys, I do want to thank Jamison Lop.
• 59:07
  He's the CTO and Co founder of Casa for joining us on the show
• 59:11
  today. Jamison, thank you.
• 59:14
  You bet. And you know, the, I think the
• 59:16
  main thing that I would mention is that, you know, this isn't
• 59:20
  just an app, this is really security consulting service.
• 59:24
  So especially at the higher tiers, what you're really paying
• 59:28
  for is having dedicated client advisors that will help you with
• 59:33
  decision making processes and with dealing with any of the
• 59:37
  issues that come up from being a long term holder.
• 59:40
  And the the private client is actually takes it to the next
• 59:44
  level where it's not just security for your Bitcoin, but
• 59:47
  it's security for your life. And that's where we'll help you
• 59:50
  with things like privacy, operational security, hardening
• 59:53
  all the other aspects of your life that ultimately still also
• 59:57
  have an effect upon the security of your Bitcoin wallet.
• 1:00:01
  Awesome. And guys again go to Casa dot IO
• 1:00:04
  slash simply find out more. Go check out the Jameson on X.
• 1:00:08
  He has a bunch of resources. You can follow him at LOP.
• 1:00:12
  Jameson, thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:00:14
  I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
• 1:00:17
  All right, everybody, stay tuned.
• 1:00:18
  We are going to hit the new segment.
• 1:00:20
  We have tons to talk about. Let's check it out.
• 1:00:23
  We will be right back. I want to give a shout out to
• 1:00:27
  our sponsor Casa. Casa makes self custody easy and
• 1:00:31
  secure. As a bitcoiner I care about
• 1:00:33
  holding my own private keys, but multi sig can sometimes get
• 1:00:37
  tricky. Casa nails it with a multi key
• 1:00:40
  security so even if one key gets lost or stolen, your Bitcoin
• 1:00:44
  stays safe and you don't give up custody.
• 1:00:47
  Meaning no one could access your Bitcoin but you.
• 1:00:50
  No seed phrase anxiety, no singer point of failure.
• 1:00:53
  I've been telling my friends and family about Casa for years.
• 1:00:57
  Their UX and UI on their app is by far the best in the industry.
• 1:01:02
  Inheritance planning is built in, and they even offer Casa for
• 1:01:06
  business. If you're thinking about a
• 1:01:08
  Bitcoin treasury, hit up Casa dot IO today and use promo code
• 1:01:12
  simply to get 10% off Casa Standard or Casa Premium.
• 1:01:17
  Head over to. Casa dot IO.
• 1:01:24
  I want to give a shout out to our partner coin kite.
• 1:01:27
  If you take your Bitcoin security seriously, you'll need
• 1:01:30
  the best Bitcoin hardware wallet on the market to take self
• 1:01:34
  custody. That's where cold card comes in
• 1:01:36
  The cold card Q is the most advanced Bitcoin signing device
• 1:01:40
  ever made. It's got a full keyboard, larger
• 1:01:43
  screen and NFC support, making air gap signing easier than
• 1:01:47
  ever. It's built for power users who
• 1:01:50
  want the ultimate security without sacrificing usability.
• 1:01:54
  And if if you're looking for a battle tested on compromising
• 1:01:57
  cold storage, the Cold Card MK4 is your go to.
• 1:02:02
  With PSPT signing an industrial grade secure element and USBC,
• 1:02:06
  it's the perfect blend of security and convenience.
• 1:02:10
  Both devices are of course 100% Bitcoin only open source and
• 1:02:15
  built by Bitcoiners for Bitcoiners.
• 1:02:17
  Secure your Bitcoin the right way with the Cold Card queue and
• 1:02:21
  the MK4. Head over to coldcard.com today
• 1:02:25
  and use promo code simply to get 5% off anything on the store.
• 1:02:34
  All right, everybody, we are back.
• 1:02:36
  We have so much to cover on today's news segment.
• 1:02:39
  First, I'm going to start it off with this clip from Jack
• 1:02:43
  Mahler's. Before I play you guys, the clip
• 1:02:45
  I do read, I want to read you guys the post from Pete Russo.
• 1:02:49
  He says President Trump just asked the Supreme Court for the
• 1:02:52
  authority to fire Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell.
• 1:02:57
  And here's some of the details. President Trump has asked the US
• 1:03:00
  Supreme Court to allow him to immediately fire top officials
• 1:03:03
  at 2 independent agencies. OK, so a lot to like uncover, a
• 1:03:08
  lot to unpack here because again, I think as a society,
• 1:03:15
  what we're going through is this kind of collective awakening to
• 1:03:19
  the reality of this broken, corrupt system, right?
• 1:03:23
  And I think you see that with US senator saying and the Federal
• 1:03:28
  Reserve and the IRS. You see that with the Trump
• 1:03:31
  administration openly talking about the year 1913, what
• 1:03:35
  happened 1913, The IRS was established and the Federal
• 1:03:39
  Reserve was established, right? So you know what is going on
• 1:03:44
  here? Like what, what, what is
• 1:03:45
  happening? Like what, what's going on?
• 1:03:47
  What's happening? You know, why, why, why is
• 1:03:52
  everyone asking these questions? Well, it's simple.
• 1:03:55
  We were sold on the idea that the income tax and the Federal
• 1:04:01
  Reserve would make society better as a whole, specifically
• 1:04:06
  the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve, their whole
• 1:04:09
  job was to keep unemployment under control and keep inflation
• 1:04:15
  under control. That is the whole purpose of the
• 1:04:17
  Federal Reserve. Now, what I keep saying, even
• 1:04:20
  Ron Paul has said, this is the two worst depressions and
• 1:04:25
  recessions in American history have happened under the Federal
• 1:04:30
  Reserve 19, the the 1929 and the 2008 financial crisis, which is
• 1:04:36
  completely impoverished my generation entirely, right?
• 1:04:42
  We are poorer than our parents. It's an undeniable fact, right?
• 1:04:48
  So if the system is broken, you start to ask questions about it.
• 1:04:54
  Do you think it's a coincidence that Bitcoin was invented in
• 1:04:59
  2009 or discovered or, or, or Bitcoin started in 2008, 2009,
• 1:05:05
  right after the great financial crisis?
• 1:05:08
  Do you think it's a coincidence that in the genesis block it
• 1:05:11
  literally says chancellor on the brink of the second bailout for
• 1:05:13
  banks? Do you think that's a
• 1:05:14
  coincidence? No, Bitcoin was a response to
• 1:05:19
  the broken system. Bitcoin was a response to the
• 1:05:22
  fact that Satoshi knew that central banking was broken and
• 1:05:27
  is broken. But remember, if we want to
• 1:05:32
  effectuate change, you have to essentially make these ideas
• 1:05:37
  culturally acceptable to the masses.
• 1:05:40
  Because when Ron Paul started talking about all of this, no
• 1:05:45
  one really listened to him. No one cared.
• 1:05:47
  No one, you know, like people would say, you know, this guy's
• 1:05:52
  crazy. This guy's insane.
• 1:05:53
  This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
• 1:05:57
  But Ron Paul was right. Like that's the part that no one
• 1:05:59
  talks about. Ron Paul was right.
• 1:06:01
  He was 100% right. He was, he was right about the
• 1:06:05
  income tax. He was right about the central
• 1:06:07
  bank, and it only was until 1520 years later, when these systems
• 1:06:12
  are getting to the point where, again, if you're a millennial,
• 1:06:16
  if you're a Gen. ZR, you are not happy.
• 1:06:19
  You're not happy. The world has gotten wealthier,
• 1:06:22
  technology has advanced, but you have gotten poorer.
• 1:06:26
  You are poorer than your parents.
• 1:06:28
  You have less opportunities than your parents.
• 1:06:30
  The age of which home ownership starts has gotten higher, the
• 1:06:35
  marriage age has gotten higher, the amount of kids people are
• 1:06:39
  are having are less. Why is all of that?
• 1:06:42
  What the F happened in 1971? What happened in 1971, right.
• 1:06:48
  So lots of questions there. So anyhow, we have to continue
• 1:06:52
  to move the Overton window as we have done on, on all the other
• 1:06:57
  topics. And here is Jack Mahlers talking
• 1:07:01
  about essentially the, you know, let's, let's check it out.
• 1:07:06
  I, I honestly believe over the next 12 to 36 months or so,
• 1:07:11
  we're going to see drastic changes in monetary policy.
• 1:07:16
  Listen, we need Trump to get in office and we need to understand
• 1:07:20
  what his plan is. But he's even hinted at having
• 1:07:24
  some oversight and control over the Federal Reserve.
• 1:07:27
  Is it beyond us that the way Trump sees himself taming
• 1:07:31
  inflation, controlling financial markets while allowing the S&P
• 1:07:35
  and assets to rise in the greater interest of the people,
• 1:07:38
  maybe he wants Besant to be the Fed chairman and lead the
• 1:07:44
  Treasury. Is that beyond us?
• 1:07:47
  Is Trump going to exercise his right to have further oversight
• 1:07:50
  over the Fed? Would that imply and mean that
• 1:07:53
  Trump is going to use some form of yield curve control to
• 1:07:56
  exercise absolute control at both ends of the market and make
• 1:08:01
  sure that assets pump and inflation is relatively tamed at
• 1:08:04
  the expense of those that hold the dollar?
• 1:08:07
  Is that what he means by weaker dollar and strengthening our
• 1:08:10
  exports? So again, we are living through,
• 1:08:14
  you know, some people call it the 4th turning, some people
• 1:08:17
  call it, you know, many things. We are uncharted territory with
• 1:08:24
  the tariffs, with 1913 being thrown around left and right
• 1:08:30
  with senators saying and the income tax.
• 1:08:33
  This is a historical administration, right?
• 1:08:36
  You had Democrats who who left the party and joined this
• 1:08:43
  administration to essentially make this, you know, a
• 1:08:48
  historical because people were asking for historical change and
• 1:08:53
  the reason for that, and you have RFK Junior, you have Tulsi
• 1:08:55
  Gabbard, part of Trump's cabinet.
• 1:08:57
  And the reason why that is all happening, fundamentally, I
• 1:09:01
  think it comes down to wealth inequality.
• 1:09:04
  I think it comes down to the fact that people are hurting.
• 1:09:07
  I think it comes down to the fact that we went through, you
• 1:09:12
  know, multiple decade long wars for what?
• 1:09:16
  Imagine if all of that money from those wars, the war in
• 1:09:19
  Iraq, the war in Afghanistan were actually spent on the
• 1:09:23
  American people rather than being spent on death because
• 1:09:27
  that's essentially what it was spent on.
• 1:09:30
  And I think this is what and when, when you arrive in these
• 1:09:33
  moments in history, people want change.
• 1:09:37
  And where I think people get this wrong and I think people
• 1:09:40
  need to wake up is for the first time people have the power in
• 1:09:47
  their hands. They don't need, you know, the
• 1:09:51
  collective to vote on a better leader to make sure that the
• 1:09:55
  direction of the country is on the right path.
• 1:09:58
  People can now vote with their wallet.
• 1:10:00
  They can vote to opt out of that said system into Bitcoin.
• 1:10:05
  They don't need to wear. They don't need to wait.
• 1:10:07
  They don't need to, you know, wait for the Trump
• 1:10:09
  administration to do this. They don't need to wait for, you
• 1:10:13
  know, Jerome Powell to do that. They don't need to wait, you
• 1:10:15
  know, for anything. They could literally start
• 1:10:18
  living a better life today, right now, if they want to.
• 1:10:23
  All they have to do is just opt out and choose Bitcoin.
• 1:10:27
  So Opti, what's your take on all this man?
• 1:10:29
  I mean, historical times. I think Mahler's is right.
• 1:10:33
  I think Trump definitely has something up his sleeve.
• 1:10:36
  We know that him and Powell have been fighting right?
• 1:10:39
  Apparently. I saw an interview with Besset
• 1:10:43
  being interviewed and he was like, no, I have tea with
• 1:10:47
  Powell, you know, every morning or something like that, or every
• 1:10:49
  week I have lunch with Powell, like, you know, and then you
• 1:10:52
  have Trump basically calling for, you know, Powell to lower
• 1:10:55
  interest rates. And again, you know, we always
• 1:10:57
  hear about this word democracy, like democracy, this democracy
• 1:11:00
  that that's like one of the the most the word I hear all the
• 1:11:04
  effing time, right? But my question is, is like, is
• 1:11:09
  it really a democratic system if the person who gets to make the
• 1:11:14
  decisions about the money isn't democratically appointed?
• 1:11:19
  They're appointed by the president every six years, and
• 1:11:23
  the president doesn't have the ability to fire that person,
• 1:11:26
  right? Like that's crazy Opti.
• 1:11:29
  What are your thoughts bro? Well, you know, democracy, the
• 1:11:32
  God that failed, as the book is named, I think is a good
• 1:11:38
  starting place for a lot of people.
• 1:11:41
  Look. I, I do believe in this thesis
• 1:11:46
  or theory or hypothesis that has been kind of circulating around
• 1:11:50
  Twitter and kind of macro groups, this idea that what
• 1:11:55
  we're seeing play out right now is essentially the Trump
• 1:11:58
  administration trying to reel in Jay Powell and the Federal
• 1:12:01
  Reserve. It does seem from all things
• 1:12:03
  that I've seen, that is the game being played right now.
• 1:12:06
  And of course, like I said it earlier, you know, and the Fed,
• 1:12:09
  the Federal Reserve is a cancerous institution.
• 1:12:11
  It's not federal. It has no reserve.
• 1:12:13
  It's literally the biggest Ponzi scheme that the world has ever
• 1:12:17
  seen. It is the main mechanism to fund
• 1:12:20
  the military industrial complex that we all have lived and been
• 1:12:23
  a part of. They're literally creating money
• 1:12:26
  out of thin air. It's literally useless papers
• 1:12:28
  that we spend our lives to acquire.
• 1:12:31
  And we see that there's a, excuse me, there's a small cabal
• 1:12:36
  of people that control and manipulate the variables of that
• 1:12:39
  money. That is literally a crucial core
• 1:12:42
  technology of society. I saw actually shout out to
• 1:12:46
  Jesse Myers. What's his Twitter creases?
• 1:12:47
  BTC. He dropped a really good article
• 1:12:50
  the other day, I think it was last week on Friday or something
• 1:12:54
  like that. And he essentially made the case
• 1:12:56
  that the the differentiating factor between Homo sapiens and
• 1:13:01
  Neanderthals or and every other, you know, bipedal human like
• 1:13:06
  species that's ever been on planet Earth is the fact that we
• 1:13:09
  were able to essentially create money that we could think in
• 1:13:11
  abstract terms. And that's a fundamental
• 1:13:14
  building block of why humans are humans.
• 1:13:17
  And yet we've found ourselves in this position where we trust,
• 1:13:22
  you know, a small group of people to manipulate those
• 1:13:24
  factors because we think that they can control this very
• 1:13:27
  complex thing known as the economy.
• 1:13:29
  It just makes absolutely no sense.
• 1:13:31
  Like human action is very complicated and I find it pretty
• 1:13:35
  ridiculous that we've been bamboozled for so long to
• 1:13:38
  believe that, you know, 12 people or a small group of
• 1:13:42
  really smart high IQ people can manipulate the economy for the
• 1:13:46
  the better of all of the people in society.
• 1:13:48
  It just doesn't work that way. That's not how society works.
• 1:13:51
  That's not how economics works. And yet we've gotten to this
• 1:13:54
  point where that's where the majority of people believe is,
• 1:13:57
  is the right way to move forward.
• 1:13:59
  Like this is the status quo. This is this is the myth that we
• 1:14:03
  live upon in this current moment, but This is why we have
• 1:14:06
  Bitcoin now. We can see that there is a money
• 1:14:08
  that no one can manipulate, that there aren't variables to
• 1:14:11
  manipulate. That is, you know,
• 1:14:12
  algorithmically locked at 21,000,000 / a long course of
• 1:14:17
  time. We know when the monetary supply
• 1:14:20
  schedule Bitcoin will play out or roughly know when it will
• 1:14:23
  play out. So everything is, you know,
• 1:14:25
  telegraphed into the future. And therefore we have something
• 1:14:29
  that is stable, a, you know, a hard capped currency, a hard cap
• 1:14:33
  money, something that doesn't change.
• 1:14:36
  So therefore we can make our measurements and our
• 1:14:39
  calculations of how society and economics will work out.
• 1:14:44
  And therefore, you find, you know, that life is a lot easier
• 1:14:47
  when you don't have to readjust your economic calculations based
• 1:14:51
  every month off what a few people want to do.
• 1:14:54
  And literally we're seeing right now, like I'm pretty sure Jay
• 1:14:56
  Powell just started speaking or he's about to speak and the
• 1:14:59
  markets are tanking like it was pumping going into the meeting.
• 1:15:02
  And right now, you know, Bitcoin just hit 85 like 15 minutes ago
• 1:15:07
  and now we are under 84 K, it's like a 83 nine.
• 1:15:10
  So we're seeing this play out in real time, but yet this is the
• 1:15:14
  status quo where people think this is normal, that people
• 1:15:16
  think this is exactly how a modern society should be run is
• 1:15:20
  that we should entrust a small group of people to manipulate
• 1:15:22
  the money supply for better outcomes.
• 1:15:24
  It's absolutely ridiculous. And This is why we don't we
• 1:15:28
  don't. This is why the show exists in
• 1:15:29
  the 1st place. We don't have to deal with this.
• 1:15:31
  We just like stack Bitcoin, take that Bitcoin into cold storage.
• 1:15:34
  You know, the Bitcoin coin price fluctuating is not necessarily a
• 1:15:38
  Bitcoin issue. The volatility is a good thing.
• 1:15:41
  Powell is on live. Shouts out to Thomas.
• 1:15:43
  He just sent us 5 bucks. Yeah.
• 1:15:45
  So, you know, he's he's he's he's trying to calm down the
• 1:15:50
  masses here and being like, trust us, bro.
• 1:15:52
  We know what we're doing here. We we got this under control.
• 1:15:56
  And yet the markets have been freaking out the last two weeks
• 1:15:58
  and and people think this is normal.
• 1:16:01
  It's absolutely insane. I just have, you know, a
• 1:16:03
  monetary unit that doesn't change and it's Bitcoin.
• 1:16:06
  Yes, the the exchange rate to Fiat currencies may fluctuate.
• 1:16:09
  Yes, it is volatile. But I'm always reminded of that
• 1:16:12
  one chart of the Weimar Republic, you know, as
• 1:16:15
  currencies start to hyperinflate, as we see increase
• 1:16:18
  uncertainty in society, these Fiat prices start to, you know,
• 1:16:24
  oscillate and, and be extremely volatile.
• 1:16:26
  And yet, as most big corners would say, one Bitcoin equals
• 1:16:29
  one Bitcoin. And it's not Bitcoin that's
• 1:16:32
  volatile. It's it's the Fiat world that's
• 1:16:34
  volatile against Bitcoin. It is a, you know, a wave
• 1:16:37
  crashing on a giant rock. Bitcoin is that rock, so.
• 1:16:44
  Yeah, I mean, let's play some of it.
• 1:16:46
  It's crazy to me. Just to kind of add to what Opti
• 1:16:49
  was saying, right, is that, you know, everyone is looking at
• 1:16:54
  what this single gentleman is going to say.
• 1:16:57
  His words hold weight. His words will either sink the
• 1:17:02
  market, it'll make the market go up.
• 1:17:05
  What a what? A archaic system, you know, it
• 1:17:08
  reminds me of the South. Like South Park had a meme on
• 1:17:10
  this. Elon had, you know, some
• 1:17:13
  comments about it. It's like, look, it's better to
• 1:17:15
  have a magic 8 ball making decisions about the economy than
• 1:17:18
  than the current system today, right?
• 1:17:21
  So yes, everyone's watching this.
• 1:17:24
  You know, this is like financial, you know, super
• 1:17:26
  sports. This is like the event to watch,
• 1:17:29
  you know, everyone's like talking about, you know, no
• 1:17:31
  cuts, no cuts. Like this is this is this is
• 1:17:34
  insane. This is like the very definition
• 1:17:37
  of a centrally planned economy and market.
• 1:17:41
  This is absolutely crazy. But anyways, yeah, anyhow, guys,
• 1:17:47
  if you guys enjoyed today's show, you know what would be?
• 1:17:49
  Crazy. Wait, wait, wait.
• 1:17:50
  One thing. Oh God, Nico.
• 1:17:51
  There's one thing I want to say before we leave.
• 1:17:53
  It's it's about the chat guys block this fake simply Bitcoin
• 1:17:56
  account in the chat posting some WhatsApp stuff Mods do your job.
• 1:18:00
  I think he has his block so I can't see it.
• 1:18:02
  All right. Anyways, go.
• 1:18:04
  I do want to give a shout out before we before we go, we we
• 1:18:07
  are going to simply Bitcoin crew will be in Las Vegas for the
• 1:18:10
  Bitcoin 2025 conference. Embrace the game theory.
• 1:18:14
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• 1:18:18
  at the Venetian Hotel May 27th through the 29th in Las Vegas,
• 1:18:23
  NV, the world's largest Bitcoin conference.
• 1:18:26
  I call it the Bitcoin NFL Super Bowl weekend.
• 1:18:30
  You know all the biggest bitcoiners are going to be
• 1:18:32
  there. You definitely don't want to
• 1:18:34
  miss this Bitcoin celebration again.
• 1:18:36
  May 27th through the 29th Las Vegas NV get your tickets now
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  before the prices go up. You can use promo code simply to
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  Vegas. The entire simply Bitcoin crew
• 1:18:55
  will be there anyways guys, we hope you enjoyed today's show.
• 1:19:00
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• 1:19:02
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• 1:19:13
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• 1:19:16
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• 1:19:19
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• 1:19:22
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• 1:19:25
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