Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / In my opinion regarding "what's unforgivable & what's compassion."
Transcript
- Marina Crane: Good morning. It's ⁓ August 9th, Saturday. And I just finished posting a recording on YouTube and also on my blog as well as on my Spotify, my podcast. I'm really a novice to this, you have to sort of bear with me because ⁓ anyway, it's all new to me. So I'm trying to do these. Okay, let's just get to the chase. The first video that I published had to do with the news about Chief Roy Whitney being charged. And it's a historical case. And I did mention, like, I'm in support of the victims. But there's even more things happening that, you know, you I would have tend to have thought like, okay, ⁓ anyway, the powers that be and whatever they've decided to do will be carried out. I'm just making this ⁓ podcast so that people understand just the complexity of the whole issue here. And I used my own personal experience with historical sexual assault. I had been, and just the degree in which perpetrators go to what extent to oppress and silence the victim. Now, for me, I was 19 when I was brutally attacked. And ⁓ for decades, I ⁓ didn't realize that I was suppressing my narrative or my voice. I didn't realize that there was a process that I had to go through. So the majority of times when I've talked on my first video and talking about restorative and transformative justice, and it's not like, you know, the arch, our tribal police chief or constables or anything like that, or lawyers. This has to do with, you know, people who, human beings like myself, just human beings and the experience of what it's like to be a victim and to recover from. ⁓ violence and the whole process, the whole legal process of why people are so intimidated or scared or why do women or just vulnerable people ⁓ gravitate to people in positions of power hoping and giving a false illusion that they're powerful themselves because they're friends with, you know, like somebody in leadership or whatever position of power that individual has. I know most of my blog for the past 20 years has been about sexual predator Nathan Chasinghorse. again, too, his trial is delayed until January 12, 2026. And he was arrested like two years ago. They've got like just terabytes of information, terabytes. And his crimes were not just in Canada, they were in Montana and various parts of the United States. I mean, the guy traveled all over the world as well. So worst case scenario, when I say about Nathan chasing horse, ⁓ if he gets off, he gets off in Nevada state, but he will be sent to Montana for federal charges. Worst case scenario, he gets off on that. He'll be extradited into Canada for charges. So that being said, when it comes to ⁓ charges of sexual assault, The police really do do investigations. They do a thorough investigation because it has to go before the court. And that's why Nathan Chasing Horse's first 20 charges were dismissed all because of a technicality on a consent, the word consent. These other new charges are done with three minor minors, two 13 year olds and one 14. And I repeat myself over again. The one 13 year old had a video taken of her. ⁓ The assailant turns around and looks directly in the camera and you know it's an A-thin chasing horse. They say that what he did to this unconscious child was so horrific they have to seal the files. And yet there are still people supporting him. He's even had ⁓ a charge against him uttering death threats against certain individuals in the first case when he was first arrested. So on a preliminary hearing, once his lawyers get all this ⁓ information set before the prosecutors and the defense, he will, as a defendant, will listen to all the witnesses, all the evidence brought before him. And after all the preliminary hearing is done, he will consult with his lawyers whether or not he should plead guilty or innocent. or I mean guilty or not guilty. Guilty or not guilty. If he pleads guilty, there'll be no trial. Okay, so I'm just going with that narrative. I'm not going to assume there was going to be a trial. ⁓ Now, the reason I'm mentioning this is that it's an American court system. In Canada, too, the laws have changed over the past 50 years. In the 70s, ⁓ the laws were so different for women. ⁓ Women ⁓ couldn't own a house, couldn't have a credit card. Indigenous women couldn't even have their status if they married non-Indigenous. A lot of things have happened and changed for Indigenous women, and yet at the same time as elders, Indigenous elders, as women, we are a bit tired. We know we win battles, but we also know the battles are still ahead of us. Now, in this case with Chief Roy Whitney, it's two men. who I think are in their 60s now. So when this assault happened, they were in their 30s. Now, I'm just relating my own personal experience. When I was brutally sexually assaulted at 19, the laws were so different then. It took six years, like 29 years ago. ⁓ The fellow was sentenced and served his time and he still lives in Soutenna. So when I talk about restorative and transformative justice, I'm talking about lived experience and what it's like to live amongst a perpetrator as well as ⁓ having family who've been perpetrators and having to, you know, live with them. I'm saying my own personal experience. I'm not the only one. I spoke with a young man yesterday who's a brother, perpetrator. People may look at us as Indigenous people and say, how can they do that? How can they find forgiveness? It's not forgiveness. ⁓ Because what they've done is unforgivable. It's the reality that we're human beings and we ⁓ live with each other. As human beings, we... need to treat each other as human beings. It sounds simple, but it isn't. It takes a hell of a lot of courage for these two young men to come forward and disclose what had happened to them in their 30s. For decades after I'd been sexually assaulted, That was my illusion or fantasy or trauma bond or whatever the hell you want to call it. ⁓ It's the reality of people who are victims of ⁓ sexual The realization that you don't have a voice, that you feel unloved, that you deserve to be treated with cruelty. ⁓ sense of like boundaries were broken. And that's why it's an unforgivable thing, especially when it's done to children at any age. Lives are destroyed. ⁓ lateral violence the ⁓ amount that a will go to the extent ⁓ of silencing the victim. Growing up here, people ask me, why didn't you ever get married? Yesterday I had an interview and I said, well, because I'd seen so many Indigenous women with black eyes and non-Indigenous women who married into a suit in a beaten. There was just some misogyny that existed of why men, brothers, aunties, brothers, uncles, fathers, grandfathers, why they hated women. And I to them, ⁓ my parents raised by non-Indigenous people. They were treated like animals in those residential schools. They didn't care to educate them about healthy human sexuality. They didn't supervise them. They didn't care if they were beaten up or bullied by other students. They didn't care if some employee impregnated ⁓ a child. All these horrific things and stories I'd heard from survivors of a new residential school. and the psychological and spiritual damage that was done. So in my previous blog or podcast, I talk about murdered and missing Indigenous women and how missing doesn't mean physically missing. It means spiritually and emotionally missing. That energy, that vibrancy, was stolen. I believe because I can say what I'm saying because of the things that happened to me as an adult, not as a child, as well as the classical conditioning or unconditioning of what it is to be ⁓ an Indigenous woman. Like I said, I ⁓ had seen so many people ⁓ involved in very relationships. my late mother and I would talk about it and she would say, I didn't realize just how, what an impact Indian residential school had on my marriage. And rightfully so, and this is why when I advocate for victims of violence, it's historical. Like I said, in the 70s, women couldn't own a credit card. Even when I was a child, I didn't even realize like all women couldn't even own a house. So even though we think we've come a long way, how people in general treat victims of violence hasn't changed much. So for me, ⁓ just historical talking, it took decades. And I said, like, I talked to women and they'd listen and I thought the perpetrator would hear it and understand he hurt me. It wasn't until I met a ⁓ lady who ⁓ I had employed and I told her about how I was brutally attacked. And she said to me, see it again. I'm saying this story because in doing this process of healing, have to be challenged. See, when I had told my story, nobody challenged me. maybe because they'd been triggered so much in their own sexual assaults. But this woman challenged me and she gave it a name. She said to me, does your perpetrator, did he ever did you ever confront him and let him know he hurt you? And in my naivety and my childlike, not childlike mind, but my young adult mind memory of that, I said yes. And I explained to her how I had I had disclosed to my perpetrator how he had hurt me. She says, no, Marina. That's not what I'm asking. See, again, I needed somebody to challenge me, to challenge the way I was thinking. Because at the time when I was sexually assaulted, the perpetrator ⁓ had me in the car and wanted me to go back into the house where the attack had taken place. And I turned to him and I said, if you thought I enjoyed what you did to me, you've got to be kidding. His first punch knocked me out. knocked me out. I didn't know what he did to me while I was unconscious. But when I woke up, I had over 20 scars in my head, 20 cuts in my head, blood. was, I woke up in a pool of blood. I enraged him so much. See, the perpetrator, I grew up to call my uncle. He was like a foster child to my, to my, one of my grandmothers, my soothed grandmothers. And I don't know just what kind of thoughts he had about me being his property or that he had some right over my body, but he was angry. Now, the only way I woke up in a pool of blood is I heard a car pull up to the car that I was unconscious in. He obviously had left after he beat me up and went back inside the house to go sleep. Now, the car pulled up and it was the two women. One was, both of them, were wives of these two perpetrators. Now, in my previous podcast, I mentioned that when the RCMP were investigating for six months before the charges were laid, they had encountered, there were over 12 ⁓ women older than myself because the RCMP said I was youngest of their victims who had disclosed to them over a period of six years of investigation, which they didn't even disclose to me. Like I mentioned in my previous podcast, youngest brother who admired and respected me said that somebody in the community just came up to him and punched him in the face. Like, you know, if the RCMP had told me what they were doing, I could have prepared my family. So, ⁓ but again, it was historical. all this stuff that I'm talking about, the perpetrator has served his time and that was like 28 years ago. But even too when I laid the charges, was still, like I was in my ⁓ almost 40 when I laid charges. And this attack happened to me when I was 19. So ⁓ the fact too is like when the two women came to the car and looked in because they wanted that car, that their family car. And I heard the one lady say, look at what they did to that poor girl. And they went walking, they went into the house because I could hear them. And I thought, ⁓ they're going to take me because it was cold. It was a winter. It was freezing. And I thought they're going to come and rescue me once they go into the house. Or why they going into the house? The next thing I hear them yelling and screaming and I heard the door of their car slamming and they took off, left me. I ⁓ got up and I walked a half a mile to the nearest home to have them call an ambulance for me and the police. Now the laws back then stated that any victim of sexual assault had to disclose within a year to somebody about their story. their narrative. The laws have changed now, but that's why the RCMP took six years to ask people if I had disclosed to them that I'd been sexually assaulted that year. Now, a friend of mine who passed away, I'd been friends with her for 30 years and I hadn't really talked to her about what had happened to me or even going to court. And after the court case and after he was convicted, I disclosed to my friend and she says, Marina, was that you? And I'm going, what do you mean? She says, well, that morning, like the two sisters, the one Apparently, when they ran out of the house, he'd taken a baseball bat to them. And he had hurt his wife so much that her sister had to drop her off at my friend's place. Now, I'm telling you this because it's after the fact that I'd been friends with my friend for 30 years. She didn't know anything about the sexual assault that I had had, or she couldn't place it until I spoke to her. And I in great detail and she says, no, she says, ⁓ I took care of her for two weeks. Like he had beaten her up so bad that that she had to, you know, the bruises and the I don't think she had broken bones or anything, but but my friends said, yeah, I took care of her for two weeks before she went back to her husband. Now, when I'm saying that, I didn't really understand the repercussions of how much these men wanted to silence. any of the victims. You have to understand, like I said, I was the youngest of the victims that they had perpetrated. Now, throughout the course of the 20 or two decades, before I laid charges, my relatives and I would hang out with one of the women, like the perpetrator's wife, because she was no longer with him. However, when we were ⁓ in the city bar hopping. We went through a bar and ⁓ my cousin and I didn't even realize this woman's ex-husband was in the bar. She got scared and she said, let's get out of here. And we ran across the street and he ran after her and grabbed her and started beating her up. had steel-toed boots on. He started kicking in their head. My cousin and I were screaming for help. People on the street came running to take to take him off his ex-wife. They called an ambulance and she was in the hospital for two weeks. Again, my naivete and not understanding the whole psychology of the perpetrator wanting to oppress or silence the victim. And the pure fact that ⁓ his ex-wife was associated with me, he wanted to instill fear in her. And he did. He instilled fear in her. Now, ⁓ her sister had disclosed to me that when I did go to court, she was in Saskatchewan, and she said, when I heard you were taking my ex-brother-in-law to court, I was going to come and testify against you. She says, she says, cause that morning, it's like she admitted at least she saw me in the car. Or like she saw me, there was an incident that happened that morning. She didn't, she didn't disclose that I was in the car unconscious in a pool of blood. She says, oh, that morning we went into the house, we went upstairs and you were in bed with, with my sister's husband. And my sister grabbed you out of the bed and had steel toed boots on and she kicked you in the head over and over again. And I said to her, no, that's not true. She said, ⁓ yes, it is. I would have testified against you, but I didn't have the money to come from Saskatchewan to Calgary. And I said, no. I said, my friend, over 30 years, told me that you dropped your sister off at her place and that she took care of her for two weeks. Like, what an amazement that after decades, decades... that the fear of supporting a victim of violence was so embedded and so ingrained in these women, the fear of losing their lives. Now people say the most dangerous man for a woman is their husband. So do you wonder why I thought I'd ever begin a relationship? with my own safety and the safety of just my well-being. I know it takes a lot of courage to come forward and stand alone. Imagine six years and there were so many other victims that the RCMP couldn't force them to support me. They're older than me, so obviously now that most of them have passed away without ever seeing justice for themselves. ⁓ The perpetrator still lives in Sutena. But there's restorative and transformative justice that happens within our communities that we take care. And the transformative justice is that the perpetrator knows that they can never perpetrate again. The punishment of banishment or isolation or ostracization or just loneliness for the perpetrator is frightening enough. My perpetrator doesn't have very many friends. A few people in the community talk to him. from people who talk to me say, know, he goes into the city and he makes himself a nuisance. He goes to a dealership and he sits in the visitor's lounge just talking to people, strangers, because people in my community won't talk to him, even though he lives here, even though he has a partner. So transformative justice has a way of balancing things out. Now, when I talk about these men who were in their 30s who were sexually assaulted and have laid claims and enough of the investigation for the police, this is after the fact. It's published. They're publishing across Canada that if there are any victims or anybody who has been sexually assaulted by Chief Roy Whitney to come forward. The reason I'm doing this podcast is because In my case, my case was published after the fact my perpetrator was found guilty. There was no room for collecting ⁓ witnesses or other victims in my case. It wasn't open to the public. It was very closed within the community. And like I said, some person just came up to my little brother, he was a young man, and just punched him in the face to make sure that nobody talks about these things. When my case was published, one of our Tsutuna leaders was interviewed by the newspaper and he says, ⁓ this doesn't happen. This doesn't happen in South Dena. So as much as we win battles, The battle is still here and it's divided our community. It's open to the public. Like that's what I want to let people know. This is open to the public. Any these two men grew up in Sioux, Tena. The crime happened in Edmonton. Understand this when Nathan chasing horse and I go and I refer back to Nathan chasing horse because this this this leader Allowed Nathan chasing horse to be in our community He wasn't instrumental in banishing Nathan chasing horse at all like the other chiefs Now, I repeat, Nathan Chasinghorson, all the victims that he victimized over decades. They've come forward and because of jurisdictional issues and ⁓ what country these things happened and different laws, it's going to take his whole lifetime to go through this. This case here, however, is local, but it's also international. It's also national. When the newspapers publish and say ⁓ if anybody's been, you know, they're seeking out other victims to come forward. And whether or not ⁓ the victim is threatened to lose their job, their security within Soutenanation, anything that the perpetrator is trying to silence, either through staff or other band counselors or workers or family members, it's real. I had to stand in court with my perpetrator handcuffed. in front of a judge and police officers, for me to face him and say to him he hurt me, and to describe how he hurt me. I stood alone. These two charges, there are two men. They don't know each other. Well, they know each other, but they don't know of each other's what happened to them until now. And I'm and I'm pretty sure, just knowing the behavior of a perpetrator. that there's more than just two victims, such as the case with Nathan Chasing Horse. When I did my blog, I had done my blog hoping that these girls, these children would grow up and find courage, because there's no statute of limitations on sexual assault, that they would come forward and lay charges. I had to be patient. I had to write in my blog and let them know that you're not alone. And these young men, I'd like to say to them, you're not alone. There many young men, family members. who were victimized and never sought out justice. We know. You as matriarchs we know, we're helpless to protect our siblings or our relatives. patience and letting letting people who are victims of violence know there is no statute of limitations. finding the courage and how to have that challenge and be open-minded enough to accept the challenge and give it a name, to have people share space with you so you can talk about what happened to you, and to seek out justice and stand before your perpetrator or perpetrators and say to them how they hurt you in a safe place. Most of the time when victims of violence talk, it's usually because they're under the influence of alcohol and drugs and it's not a safe place and they get beaten up or sexually assaulted again. This isn't something new in humanity. And as I've said, it's very important to trust people. And in my previous podcast, I do mention that. I do mention just how pitiful I feel when I'm talking to immigrants who have this capacity to hold space for me. We have the capacity to trust, to hope that I will trust them. It's not easy. When I give my talks in the city, I tell white women, it took me a long time to trust you. And the same is white men. But once you start having a narrative, once you've started healing, once you know how to give it a name, space, and bear witness. That's the process and it may sound like, and I said before in my podcast, it sounds like a magic wand, just like saying abracadabra, but it isn't. It takes a hell of a lot of courage. months and years. but there are invisible helping hands helping. Creator and the grandfathers and grandmothers who came before us have been praying for us. I know I'm blessed in the sense that I have a voice and I've lived so long just to bear witness that Nathan chasing horse is going to be tried justice. When I talk about my niece Roberta. I tell people. She was a beautiful child admired me, listen to me, wanted to please me. And then all of a sudden she went missing. Not physically. She went missing spiritually and psychologically. From that time on, she went missing to me until the day she died. from an overdose. She tried to get restorative justice, to get some sort of transformative justice against Nathan Chasinghors. family. Takes a community to help heal a victim. This is why I advocate. My niece Roberta didn't have that. ⁓ So many victims of sexual assault commit suicide. because they feel nobody's listening, that they're worthless, that this cycle of violence keeps on perpetrating them through different people. all because somebody triggered them, somebody became the catalyst so that they wanted to hide and disappear within themselves. So of course, I'm going to support these victims, these two men who have come forward. The courage it's taken for them. I'm very fortunate. I worked in the Utah State Hospital. I worked with highly suicide teenage girls. The ward next to us were boys. I had an opportunity to talk to the psych aides about the behavior of boys when they've been sexually assaulted. I've seen that in my father as a survivor of Indian residential school and in and having been enrolled during World War II. and then they start doing things that are unforgivable. Misogyny does exist. There is a danger out there for victims of violence. And as a community member, do we have courage to stand by these victims to make sure they're safe? It's not easy. Nothing's easy in this life. but I wanted to put this out there in a podcast. There'll be consequences and there'll be transformative and restorative justice happening within Sudan. And how it plays out and how people manage to navigate what has happened. There is a leader who for decades had been given a position of trust. just as Nathan Chasinghorse was given a position of trust. and the horrific things he did to children. They're destroyers of life. I knew one spiritual person who was a Vietnam Vet. He says, it's so easy to talk and say a bad thing about a human being. He says, that's how easy it is to kill. And people who knew this man, this Vietnam vet, would tell you he won't hear him say a bad thing about another human being, because he killed 38 Vietnamese. And he knew he knew he had been traumatized as a child in Indian residential school. He was traumatized in Vietnam. And the spiritual practice he practiced himself. wasn't to stand up and say, look at me. He did it because he needed to find balance in his life. And in finding balance, hoping to help others. They're very good spiritual and healing people out there. I just wanted to say that to any of the victims out there. If you feel alone, trust your gut. There are good people out there. Invisible helping hands, I call them. With that, again, I don't have any phone numbers or any people I could refer you to. But if this is triggering, I encourage you to go out and seek help. But I also want to give you some bit of hope that there is restorative justice and transformative justice. It takes time and patience. mean, who has a lifetime? That's how hard it is. I tell you my story so that you know how many years and decades it's taken. We just need to be patient. And we need to be patient with our young people. And as elders, we need to have the courage to bear witness to the injustice that's being done today. So thank you for listening to me. I will be posting more episodes of this podcast.