Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 195: Ambika Pande: From Professional Tennis Dreams to Finding a New Identity

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195: Ambika Pande: From Professional Tennis Dreams to Finding a New Identity · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was angry.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I came back home.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I finished university.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had like all my tennis gear.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think I gave it away, some rackets I sold off.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was at home for like three years before I went and did my MBA.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, those three years, you know, I didn't meet anyone.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was at home.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just went to work.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I came back.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'd work out.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'd basically get up, work out, go to work, come back, maybe get a workout in again and sleep.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my schedule for like three years until I went to MBA.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, just I think a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, a lot of what has happened to me, what do I do now?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Who are you beyond the game?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ryan Gonçalves.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I became a professional footballer at 16 and eventually had to answer that myself.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is Career Cloud with Athletes from Second Wind Academy, a show about career transition.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Seen to the lens and lives of elite athletes.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: This season I'm sitting down with athletes still competing.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Athletes years out, and the sports psychologists, coaches and practitioners who guide them.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: We get into the decisions, the identity, and the practical work of building what comes next.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Athletes hit this earlier than most people.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: But what they learn works for anybody.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode, a story, and where it goes from there.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Great to have you here joining me today, both of us in our late evening, but looking forward to having a good conversation.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Looking forward to it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, for those who you know who don't know you, who don't know where you are, and a bit of your background, just tell us that quick intro.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So uh my name's Ambika Pandey, and I'm based out of Bangalore in India.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: So while currently I work as in the product team in a startup called Silence Laboratories, I've been in the product space for about the for the last five years, but I actually used to play professional tennis.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I used to represent India internationally, played all the way through juniors, went to university, uh played D1 tennis at the University of Tennessee, and then later Nickel State University on a full scholarship.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wanted to go pro, that was the goal.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: When that didn't happen, that's when I did my MBA, got into product, and it's sort of led to where I am now.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: It gives me it gives me plenty then to delve into as well.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh listen, that's what this is about.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so you you're speaking about being in sort of fintech in startup land now.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about what that experience is like.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh pretty dynamic.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'd actually equate it a little bit to playing in terms of like the uncertainty that comes in.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I started off my career post-sports in a smaller, like maybe 300, 400 employee company called Zess Money.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And things move fairly fast.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the thing about startups is it's very dynamic.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: You have to take decisions and sort of keep moving forward without having all the information available.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, in a way, it it I can actually draw parallels with competing professionally or not even professionally, just competing because you're making a lot of decisions on the fly and you don't know how it'll pan out.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're just doing, you know, what you think is best in that moment and you know, trying to find something that you can then improve.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's what I'd really say startups are all about these days.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: You describe it and it makes it kind of bit scary because I would say when you're in that zone when you're playing sport, your training means that you are kind of in control.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the key things you would do is not get too lost in the moment, but it is, you know, locking in on, you know, the skill and recognizing, hey, I know how to manage some of these situations and contexts.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: But when you talk about being in a startup, it's much more free and much more, oh my gosh, what's happening?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Quick, let's go and let's solve this.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say, see, there's still, I think even when you play, you still have control over the effort and how you're approaching it, but there's not a lot of control in terms of the outcome or where you think or what will actually happen.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where a little similar.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually feel me playing sports has helped me with that because I find I'm there is actually a lot of folks who maybe, you know, like you're obviously a little skeptical, a little afraid of making decisions when you don't have the full information.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me that comes naturally because I've I'm used to operating in ambiguous situations where you don't have control over the outcome.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I like the way you're thinking there.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: It it is the you can control your actions, your skills, you can learn how to react, perhaps adapt to situations like we do in in sport, in a sporting context.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you're saying that's the parallel, that's what you're picking up and bringing into what feels like a more fast-paced, hectic environment.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: But for you, it's you have con you know what you can do, uh, and you're ready to adapt to all these different um different opportunities and and experiences.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you you said that you are in product.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so product really means that you're doing so you're responsible for like a specific without uh so I basically look at um in silenced botties, we are essentially a PT company, privacy enhancing tech.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we essentially have a line of privacy preserving tech which could relate to, you know, encrypting credentials, encrypting data, making sure that, you know, nothing, no data or no private information or enterprise information is exposed beyond what the enterprise has signed up on.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I, when I say I am in product, I essentially mean I own the vision and I own the outcome as well.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I am responsible for saying, hey, what are we building?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: How are we building it?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: What do the next six months or 12 months look like?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Who are we building it for?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then the most important, obviously, how do we make money from it?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that entire piece is what I own.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people, when they pitch product to you, or rather, the first definition you hear when somebody's getting to product role is you're like a CEO of that small thing that comes under you.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you're responsible.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually, you may be working with people, but eventually the success or failure of that outcome falls away.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I describe product.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a nice way of describing it.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: You taught me something new there with PET.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So this privacy enhancing tech.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me a bit about that.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So privacy enhancing tech, it can be, it's, it's multiple things together, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's how fintech is not one thing.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of things that come under it.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So with privacy enhancing tech, essentially it's I really like it because I feel like it's also tied to something where you're actually, you know, protecting what an enterprise or a customer wants.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think in a lot of startups, you know, the fast-moving pace of startups in AI today, I feel like a lot of times you're actually the goal of a lot of these platforms is to get as much information as you can.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So then you can person you can, you know, target customers, personalize things for them, stuff like that.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: So privacy for me is almost like giving people, enterprises, anybody who wants giving them control of their data and their credentials as well.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I would sort of talk about what we're trying to do here inside laboratories.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to make sure that nothing more is leaked, nothing more is exposed than you want a customer or enterprise to.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's kind of important.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And probably going to come back to that.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to learn a little bit more about how you got into that space and and how things are working there because that environment itself is quite rich.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd like to go back and just get an understanding, Ambico, of for you in sport growing up, you know, where did tennis play?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Where did sport play a role for you?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: My family's always been super active.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I have a twin sister as well, and she played tennis with me until I think we were maybe 10 or 11, and at some point she I wanted to sort of pursue it as a career, and it was not something that was super important to her.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we've always been very, very active.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, and as you are with kids, you go to coaching and then you start playing like some of the, you know, smaller tournaments.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what a lot of folks recognize is that one is I I started winning and it seemed like, you know, I was enjoying it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: But more than that, I think I had like the, you know, like I was a I was tall, I was athletic, I had like a good physical base.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: I seemed to have the right mental space to at least, you know, be in that situation and compete.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one thing I think just led to another.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So my parents, while everybody is active, nobody comes from like a professional sports background.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So nobody really knew what to do.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we just sort of, you know, went to coaching academies, kept making, kept winning, kept like sort of making a name in the junior circuit.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was lucky enough to meet my coach who sort of guided me to where I got to in my tennis career, man called Bishal Uppal.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, ex-Davis Kappa represented India as well.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, very accomplished himself.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think for me at least, it it sort of just happened.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I liked playing it, and I think I got the right coach at the right time.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I think my training really began.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Before that, it was just us figuring out what works really.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess you say figuring out what works, perhaps the enjoyment factor playing in in that way.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm interested then, and when did you start to realize you were good and that this this game could take you somewhere?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think at around 10 years, I was doing fairly well in some of the in the junior tournaments where I was, you know, consistently sort of winning, winning some the junior tournaments.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I started traveling as well around India and, you know, made some trips out of India as well and had promising results.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I seemed to enjoy it as well.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point, I was like, okay, I this definitely interests me more than studying.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And clearly I'm doing something right.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's why at least the winning is not important at that age, but you know, they they still give you some confidence.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we all we were in the right.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Something was going well, and that's where I knew I wanted to continue with it.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't know where it'll take.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you say you enjoyed it more than studying.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how did you know, how do you balance studying or school and tennis at those, you know, at those ages?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there's balance, very honestly.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I at least I don't remember having a lot of balance.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was in school, but you're not really paying too much attention because your focus is okay, my next training session or the next tournament that I have, and everything you're doing is building towards that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what I try to tell people, even now when they want their children to get into sports, is that see, balance is a nice idea.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, as much as you can, you've got to give them an environment where there are other things they're doing as well.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's important, I think, for the mental development and giving you like an outlet when maybe, you know, your sports is not making you feel the best way, or you may maybe had a bad day or something.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: But the focus is still sport.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're still working 100% towards that.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: The other things that you're doing actually feed into you performing better, is how I think what my experience was always like.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean it helped it feeds into you doing better?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think taking time off, and for me, going to school was like taking a break.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if at any point in time, and this was so I I went to school till 10th grade, and then 11th and 10th grade, I was hope school because I was playing full-time.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you're like 16 to 18, those are crucial years because you're transitioning from a junior to like maybe a senior player.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'd go to school, you know, when I'd need like a couple of days off.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: And just going to school and being in a different environment, maybe talking to some friends, hanging out with them.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: That helped me maybe, you know, create some distance between me and the sport, get like a mental refresh.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I'm back in two, three days and I feel refreshed and I'm ready to go again.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've not heard for certainly at that school age, but it's good that you're able to get that kind of break.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I but around that age then, where did you where did you want tennis to take you?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: What did you start to dream about?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I, as any kid, I was dreaming about playing and winning Grand Slams, right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I had a diary and with Vishal as well.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think what one thing he really encouraged is really journaling your thoughts and you know the power of manifestation.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I carry with me today as well.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you, you know, think about it, you dream about it enough and you want it badly, then you're gonna take the steps to get it.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I used to dream about, and that's how it started.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I I think very early on I knew that I wanted to play professionally.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I maybe didn't know what that meant, but for me that meant playing and winning Grand Slams.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's the top of the game, right?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interestingly.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: I want to come into one.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are you still journaling today?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not as much as I would like.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I still write down things that I want to accomplish and things that I want to do and things that I want to happen to me.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if nothing else, I think it just helps me keep a goal in mind.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think I work well.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if this is a sports thing, but it helps me when I have a goal in mind and I'm chasing that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: It could be intangible, it could be out of my control.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: But having something to, I think, drive drive towards really helps.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know what that's like.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: You yeah, even if it is something that might be quite obscure, it's still good to try and land something and you know, move towards something intentionally rather than just to drift, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it also actually helps with clarity of thought.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of times, and especially in today's day and age where everybody's using AI and you know, typing things out.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think like really putting pen to paper and really writing down what you think and sorting through, you know, wherever you are mentally and what you want and maybe how you felt when something happened, I think really helps narrow down exactly what triggered you or what, you know, what you want.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm a big believer.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what I tell everybody when they ask, ask me, hey, how do you do, how do you sort of do multiple things at one time?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think I always tell them, hey, you have to write things down, and that really gives you a lot of clarity in terms of what you want to prioritize or what where you want to be in like the next 10 years.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: So coming back to then this this sport journey, you know, thinking about you now having this dream of where you want to go, this 16 to 18 sort of age group, what for you, what were the highlights of you during that period and what happened next?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the highlights were I So I um won a bunch of tournaments internationally.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Canada and I played a ITF grade four there, which I won.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: What does grade four mean?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a big grade four.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got different grades of junior ITF tournaments: grade five, grade four, grade three, grade two, grade one, and then your grand slam.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it it's like how the ATP or WTA tour is today.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like your$15,000 is like maybe lower ranked, and you know, it goes up to 250k, 500k, and then your Grand Slams and things like that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: So similarly, in this as well.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this was one of the first tournaments I actually traveled for internationally.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I w ended up, I we did like a training block in New York.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: My I used to go there in the summer in a place in the Hamptons place called Holistic Tennis Academy and trained there.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that, I went to Canada, played a couple of tournaments in I think Edmonton and Vancouver.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So in Edmonton, I think I lost in the second round.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And in Vancouver, I ended up, you know, playing a bunch of like tough matches, and I I think won the Vancouver final 7-6 in the third.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was playing against a local girl, so she had the support of the crowd.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was obviously this Indian girl.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was really in Canada for the first time.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was a big, big win for me.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think gave me a lot of confidence.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then immediately after that, I flew next week to Jordan and won the tournament there as well.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think won the tournament, the singles tournament, reached the semis of the double.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So those two I think gave me a lot of confidence in terms of okay, I'm doing something right.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was also the year I reached the national doubles final in India.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, a lot of these things I think really made me feel like I was sort of on a world group.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think those are some of the things.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who who did you travel with at that age?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Mostly I traveled alone, honestly.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: But there was like usually for these tournaments, there was a group of Indian players who'd normally go.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So then you'd just, you know, make your plans with them and travel as a group, and then obviously you have familiar people with you, and there's normally a coach who travels there as well.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you've got training partners and like that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is that typical?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because you you're I mean you're six sixteen, seventeen, traveling globally, and the speed with which you're traveling, I struggle making my connecting flights now.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you you're doing that as a as a tennis player, as a young tennis player.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, interestingly, when I look back now, I'm like, I was pretty young to be traveling alone.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm not sure why I was, you know, traveling alone like that.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I think at that point I didn't really think too much of it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for me, the goal was to get this, do your training, get your rest, and then start playing.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't really think too much about, hey, should I have be traveling alone or, you know, with somebody or anything else?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Looking back now, would I have benefited from it?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think you think too much about it at that age.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, you can't.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's the beauty of being young, perhaps, and you have this focus, you know, so you just get on with it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um so then so what came next then for you, 18, 19, finishing the school age, what decisions or what options did you have in front of you?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a few options.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: One was obviously stay in India and continue playing and make that transition from the tour.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So get into an Indian college, you know, basis sports, like finish my undergrad here, and then continue sort of playing the pro tour.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: That was one option.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: The second option was playing D1.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Go to the States and playing D1.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that was, I think, something that became a very good option for me.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: We have a bunch of Indian folks who've done really well, who've, you know, gone through the college route and then ended up playing professionally.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what I've heard as well from a lot of people was those extra three, four years that you spent, and you're still playing against some of the top folks in the in the country, maybe even the world at that age, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: That gives you that majority, gives you some extra time before you actually playing play the pro circuit.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that I think the more I thought about it, the more that became an option that I felt I would pursue.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's eventually what ended up happening.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was lucky enough to get some full aesthetic scholarships to Dion universities, and then that ended up becoming the next step for me.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what was what did you study?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I actually studied finance.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted, I did enjoy, I mean, I enjoyed reading about it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I understood too much again, but I enjoyed looking back.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what I was reading.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I read some, I read some books that my dad and mom used to bring back.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, finance felt like something like I could probably do.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't too complex in terms of it wasn't like engineering or like medicine or something like that.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, it had enough rigor where I felt, okay, it's I can still say that I went through this and I, you know, took advantage of the fact that I have a scholarship to at least get a good degree that could be useful later on.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think I think that's it's probably good I did that.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it gave it continued to give you options uh as you you know went through your career.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So once you arrived in the US, you were playing Div One.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So at which college did you go to?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I was in at the University of Tennessee for two years.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: The SEC conference.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I transferred to Nichols State University for my junior and senior year.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: What made you do the transfer?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I got to Tennessee and I think right off the bat, like in the first three, four months, I think I ended up injuring my shoulder.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a rotator cuff and a labrum tear, right shoulder, and I'm right dominant.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, if you have that, then you can't really do any overhead motion, which in tennis is super important.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And ended up getting surgery at the end of my freshman year.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, rehab was pretty painful.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: It took me some time to get back, and I think coming back and balancing, I think, the competitiveness of a league like SEC, I think was just not working out for me.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I did want to play and get back into it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it was obvious that obviously I'd lost a lot of time from the injury and then subsequent surgery and then rehabbing.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, at that point, it made sense to maybe transfer to quote unquote an easier conference where maybe it's not as competitive, and then it gives me that time to actually rebuild my shoulder, get back into it, you know, work on my fitness and try to get my game to where it was.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's that's where I transport.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: How did that work out for you?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm interested actually, in terms of where you wanted to go.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you spoke about the dream of being professional.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you went to the US for a reason to come out with that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: During that period, what was going through your mind?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was mentally not in a very good space.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I've sort of gone to, I think at that point, because I'd gone to university, in my mind it was, hey, now I need to sort of see this through.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm here, might as well finish what I came here to do, which was play four years of college tennis.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think mentally was not in a good space at all.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Took me some time to get my bearings even when I moved to Nickel State University.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was lucky to have some really good teammates, I think, who really, really supported me and some friends who I'm still in touch with till today.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think my relationship with tennis just was.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Very good, and I think that was probably the first time where I felt like okay, this tennis dream is seeming like I'm sort of it's it's getting away from me at this point.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's when that r realization happened and took me some time to get come to terms with it.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: What was the hardest thing that you had to come to terms with?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was a loss of identity.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I mean, since I was 10, I'd sort of defined myself as an athlete.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody asked me what I do, and I'd said, Hey, yeah, I play tennis and the dream is to play professionally.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that continued.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I felt that slipping away from me, I actually didn't know how to define myself.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't know who I was.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody comes and asks me, hey, what do you do?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I was like, I I don't know what to say.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think that I I really didn't know how to react to that.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: So how did you find your well, did you find the love again for tennis?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how did you get your bearings again, as you said?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I started playing again, and I think rehab just I don't think I either I didn't rehab very well or maybe I came back too soon.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I ended up essentially injuring my shoulder again.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I was told that probably we we tore my labrum and I would have to have surgery again.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this was mid-junior year.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point, I think with my head wasn't probably in the right space.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't too happy with tennis.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think I actually felt angry at the sport, saying that, you know, I've given everything I have and you know, this is how you treat me.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was that was something that used to run through my head a lot.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And ended up not having the surgery.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, it was okay, if I get surgery, then there's no sort of guarantee if I'll come back and I've anyway gone through one cycle of it where it did really pan out the way I thought it would.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I was saying, for me in my mind, it was if I get surgery now, it's two or three years where I'm back to where I was.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's not even where I've improved, right?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And with a lot of my peers, you have those two, three extra years of playing and getting your game sharp.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm already a few years behind.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna take me more behind as well.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I think for me it was okay, at least try to play and end your you're here in university to play tennis.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if this is how it's supposed to end, then at least let's go out on a high note and play as much as possible.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I said, with my teammates and my coach supported me.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: So my junior and senior year, I I was able to play because again, the South the conference that I was in, it was a slightly easier conference.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I was able to at least play and compete.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up playing my last two years at university.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I would serve underarm and I would just play out.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to, I think, make do and win a few matches and actually contribute because obviously I had that foundation of playing.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's how I ended it, I think.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was more about just seeing it through after I uh tore my shoulder again.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so as you look back at that period, where does it land for you in terms of positive, you know, fondness of the game and how it finished versus maybe regretful or a sort of a negative sentiment?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm better now.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think I've come to the point where I'm able to look back and say, you know, I obviously it didn't work the way it did, but I got friends out of it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I got an experience that not a lot of people got out of it.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I learned stuff then that I'm realizing now actually is able to translate very well into whatever I tackle, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like some of the stuff we talked about, like, you know, being able to manage ambiguous situations.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's good.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think though, when that happened, I was I was angry.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I came back home, I finished university, um, I had like all my tennis gear.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think I gave it away, some rackets I sold off, and I was at home for like three years before I went and did my MBA.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, those three years, you know, I didn't meet anyone.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was at home.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just went to work, I came back, I'd work out, I'd basically get up, work out, go to work, come back, maybe get a workout in again and sleep.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my schedule for like three years until I went to MBA.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, just I think a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, a lot of what has happened to me, what do I do now?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that's that's where I was.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I I can understand that, right?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And how did you get out of it?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: What made the MBA something that you then started to strive for?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're in a low spot.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm interested in the process uh, you know, intentionally or unintentionally that you went through.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues, and unfortunately suicide.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's time for it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Every year, we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life activities.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: This might be a retirement, injury, or they need to juggle your careers between sport and a job.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: As a former English professional footballer, I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking, strategy, innovation, and now life coach, career practitioner, and founder of the Technology Academy.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to help those around me find their career technical.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, Second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: When I was at home, I was working for this company called Sports Life, and essentially it was like a company that conceptualized and executed sports leagues.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've heard of the IPL, the Indian Premier League, for cricket, that's what this company used to do for non-cricket sports.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: So again, when I came back from university, I didn't really have any plans.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, if I can't really play sports, maybe if I work in a sports company, maybe, you know, that's something that that works out for me because I didn't really know what else to do.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that unfortunately didn't work out the way I wanted it to.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think sports in India is still, still, I think, a very tough industry to work in, apart from cricket, other sports.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think struggle to find that sort of viewership and backing and funds.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: So after like two years at this place, I realized that okay, I don't know what I want to do, but I definitely don't want to work in sports in India.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the sort of that's where I decided, okay, let me go to MBA, because a lot of people sort of tout MBA as this place where you can, you know, go and really pivot and do something else.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the whole point.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I really didn't know what I wanted to do until I went to MBA.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what helped also to get out of it a little bit is okay, I don't know how it happened.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was a gradual shift.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was maybe sort of, you know, realizing that okay, I can do other things.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not just tennis.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I picked up, I picked up an instrument, I play the guitar, so it was getting into music.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was getting back into reading.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I always used to be one of those voracious readers when I was younger and wasn't able to give it that sort of time when I started playing as well.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think rediscovering interests and rediscovering those parts of myself that maybe I wasn't able to give that much time when I was actually playing full-time sports.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: That helped.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it was very gradual.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think I can look back now and say, okay, yeah, this is what happened.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, I think it was more like a time heals all wounds sort of thing.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it takes a time, it it does take time, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it it sounds like you were able to go back home into an environment that allowed you to, you know, kind of cruise, find your feet again, and, you know, like find your mojo, get that energy back to help you move forward.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I was lucky, so I was staying with my parents at that point.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they also realized that I just needed space.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what I really appreciated was there wasn't too much questioning or anything else.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I came back, I think they also knew that I was I was sort of done with tennis and sports.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And very grateful for I think just the space that they gave me.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: They allowed me to just sit and, you know, really sulk for like two and a half years at home before I went to do my MBA.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I I mean, if I I don't if I didn't get that time, I don't think that I'd probably be like in a in a healthier place where I am today.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that environment really helped.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, my sister, I'm very close to my sister, and I think she understood a little bit more of what I went through, obviously, at the same age, and she played tennis, not obviously to the level that I did, but some of it what she understood.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: So she was obviously also really great source of support.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: More like a very sort of just patting me on the back and saying, hey, you know, it's fine.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like you'll figure it out.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that really helped.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me, how did the MBA help?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: What did you go in expecting and what did you do, you know, in order for you to come out with this new vision of of who you are and where you want to go?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, the MBA was just a means to an end, very honestly.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people talk about it being this transformational experience.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was more like get in, get your degree, and then hopefully in the process, find something that you like and join that.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I one is of course I met one of my best friends there who actually we share a flat in Bangalore together.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, one really lucky for that to happen.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I think one thing that I was determined to do in MBA is try as many things as possible.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you didn't really do that in undergrad because you were playing, didn't really get to do that in school.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you find something interesting, really stick to it and do it well.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: So pick two, three things and you know, try to like get as much out of it as possible.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: That was the goal.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was lucky enough to join.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if you're aware of this uh something called Dom Room Fund.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially like a venture capital fund and it invests in student-led startups, hence the dorm room.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the the founder of this fund called Campus Fund had just returned from the London Business School and she was setting up a similar model in India that's called Campus Fund.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a hundred million dollar fund now.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: But five years ago, I think she'd got raised like a million dollars, and it was almost like a pilot where we said, hey, we'll find student startups and we'll invest in them.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: And as a part of this team, she was recruiting folks from MBA schools and undergrads and things like that.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw it, it's investing seemed interesting.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, hey, why not?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I applied for it, and I think she maybe saw that something in me, maybe the sports background, maybe something else.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I was part of what we call the founding team at Campus Fund.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I really enjoyed doing that.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was, I think, the most fun I'd had in a while.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of what I did was you just do cold outreach to students, startups who are building something.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the whole vision of Campus Fund was buy the students for the students.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the goal was students do everything from thesis creation to investing.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And because we're investing in students, we're the best folks to actually understand what they're going through.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it, absolutely loved that experience and continued to stay on with it.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I was gonna say, what did you love about it?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was just really interesting speaking to different people, understand what they're doing.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of stuff that I'd actually now obviously I have exposure in, and I was I'm able I've been able to build domain expertise in fintech.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: But at that time, I think it was just speaking to like a lot of young, dynamic folks, maybe as old as me, maybe a little younger, building something new.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Super exciting, really getting to actually put your nose on the ground and say, hey, in 10 years, they're building today for what could happen in 10 years.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was super exciting to me.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's that's not really a space I'd been in.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And even when I was working at the sports company that I was before MBA, that's not really the sort of thing that you do.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it's very, it's more operational and executional, really.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that was, and with that, because the team, the first team of Campus Fund, had students from all over India.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't just my focused on the students from my MBA.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: I got a chance to interact with a lot of these folks as well, and some of them I'm still in touch with today.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that I really enjoyed.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think just very, very new experience, very fun experience.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: But it was also very real world, which is I think what I really appreciated about it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think with MBA, you have a lot of clubs and you're simulating a lot of things.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: With this, there was actually a$1 million fund that we were really deploying.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the opportunity to learn something new and get that experience was very, very cool.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: How come it wasn't daunting?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: How come you weren't scared?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because you knew nothing about this, right?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one thing I sort of took some confidence from is I was pretty upfront, you know, when I applied for it, that I have absolutely no experience in investing.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have no experience in this space.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to come in and learn.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you want somebody who understands investing to get into this role, I'm probably not the best person for it, is what I said.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, if you want somebody who's very quick to pick up things, who learns on the job, you know, my effort and enthusiasm will always be on top.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I may not have the domain knowledge, but I I can guarantee you that in a year I'll put in the effort to get it done.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was the attitude I sort of brought to it, which made me feel like even if I don't know it today, just keep at it, and in three or six months you'll know.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to carry that with me.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it was from sports or something else or just a personality thing.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: But that made me feel excited rather than I think feel very daunted by the whole experience.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so where did it where did it take you next?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: What did it inspire you to do?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you did the MBA, you were doing this, enjoying it, loving it for the first time in forever.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And what was next then?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I went through placements at my university.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially, during placements, you have companies that come and interview you, and there's certain roles that they want to fill.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, not a lot of investing companies come came the year I was doing my MBA.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I still applied to a few but didn't really get through.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And according to a strategy role at a fintech, a fintech called Zess Money, which was into short-term lending.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: A bit like I think a firm or Klarner, one of these global companies.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the fun part was I still was doing campus fund on the side.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: They liked it so much.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, campus fund, the definition of a student at campus fund is somebody who's currently doing a degree or it's not been more than three years since they graduated.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I was one of the folks who wanted to stay back and continue do that, doing that part-time.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it wasn't just a fun thing for me.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I also saw it as a way to, you know, sort of continue adding to what I'm doing.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: When you're at work, it's almost like you have blinkers on.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And this enabled me to actually take a step back and say, hey, this is what's happening outside as well.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I continued with that.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: And with the strategy role that I joined, strategy and investing actually have a lot of things in common.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll see a lot of folks.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you'll actually see a lot of folks in India as well.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: You do a strategy role for a few years, and then that's actually a transition path to actually getting to investing.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that one is that bird's eye view of what's happening with the company, a really strong understanding of the macros.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot about strategy is sort of thinking through things today that will benefit the company in six months or one year or ten years.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're defining the vision of what needs to be done.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And with my role, I was working closely with the founders.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that I felt like there's a lot of things I could apply from my experience at Campus Fund as well.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think that's that then led me to join another strategy role at another fintech that's called Razor Pay.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the biggest fintechs in um India.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably gonna IPO in the next six, six months to one year.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: But there again, it was a strategy role where I was working with the founders while doing campus fund on the side as well.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that I mean it was a weird sort of thing where something I really enjoyed doing an MBA led me down this path.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: I probably wouldn't have joined a strategy role if campus fund didn't happen.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, that's interesting.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: So when so during that period, how did you then describe yourself?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because previously, you know, you were a tennis player, you were an athlete, then that moved away and well, you were lost.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: What did it become?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: So when someone was then asking you, so hey, what what do you do?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: How do you describe that?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was at these fintechs as well, I started writing also.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a I have a newsletter.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the Painted Stock, and it's got about 2,000 subscribers.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I at least define myself as now in my professional life, at least, as an investor, as you know, a product person, as somebody who works in fintech and maybe at the cusp of like new technologies, since that's what a lot of the PEP work and fintech, etc.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, happens is that that's where it sits.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that that probably helped me in professionally at least define where I was.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Strategy consulting, VC, fintech.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are some buzzwords that I was probably now starting to attach to my name.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, investing is actually something I've stayed with till today.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I left campus fund, I think around 2023.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just the demands of doing that on the side became too much.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Then my responsibilities at work increased.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then took some time and I was just doing work full-time and you know, working on my newsletter.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then I actually got some folks from a fund called Atrium Angels got in touch with me.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Atrium Angel is essentially a micro VC that is founded by some alums of ISB.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: ISB, the Indian School of Business, is where I did my MBA.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they sort of reached out and said, Hey, we saw that you've left campus fund, and we're actually looking for somebody to come and do part-time work.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: They call it a venture partner, exactly like what you did there.
• 39:48
  unknown: Okay.
• 39:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I've sort of stayed, continued with that.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And exactly.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I stayed with that.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: And for them, I look more at the fintech side of things because obviously that's where I can contribute more.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of all of these, and that's where I am today.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's, you know, the campus fund and the Serenipity, just joining a fintech right out of MBA, found that I liked it, was able to sort of move through fintech and investing.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that's where I am sort of now at a fintech, fintech adjacent firm, PETs, etc., and doing investing.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I've gotten a little bit into angel investing as well, where I like to, you know, back some founders personally who I really believe in them and the vision as well.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very interestingly how some of these things sort of evolved and got me to where I am today.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, because it sounds like a lot of it is evolve, evolving.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it it wasn't, I suppose uh it's more of an emergent approach to how you were defining your career rather than having this single focus that that you had as a as a tennis player and it was like to go pro in tennis.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now it seems like you're perhaps more accepting of where the future might take you rather than having such a fixed approach.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm interested because we you know, we opened up on goal setting and still having sort of individual goals.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like for you now?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's not a win a grand slam.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you set your career or life goals now in in this your, you know, I still call it your second wind, but how how do you set goals for yourself now?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of the goals now are more personal.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're not really tied to professional work anymore.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, there may be things that I want to do.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: I may say, okay, in 10 years I want to do something of my own or whatever that is.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: But now they're more personal.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that they're more about staying, staying healthy, mentally being in a good place, you know, keeping in touch with people.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think when I when tennis didn't work out for me, I think those are the things that actually helped me sort of figure out who I am.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I give them a lot more importance now.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know if I have if I'm okay there, then you know, anything that happens that's not in my control, if it's professional or even personal anything else, that's something I can handle.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have like I have a strong sense of self.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm healthy both mentally and physically to take it, have a good support system.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: So now a lot of it is a lot of it is actually personal goals for myself.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: It could be some health metrics, it could be maybe, you know, running a 5k in 20 minutes or whatever it is, but more things like that.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not that much in a professional sense.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Those two things are quite powerful: healthy in body and mind and staying in contact with people.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: It seems so simple.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: It I think it helps give perspective, right?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can be having a really bad day, and then you speak to somebody and sort of get their views as well, and you find up find something to laugh about.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's at least the relationship my sister and I have, and you know, if she's had a bad day or I have had a bad day, I'll call her up and then, you know, I'll make a funny comment, or she'll find something to laugh about.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, after that, you're like, hey, okay, things aren't that bad.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've just made it into like a big dramatic situation, but it's it's fine.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we get up again the next day and we'll get at it.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, that that's brilliant.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: I really like that perspective that that you bring.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I gotta say thanks for sharing your journey and bringing some of your, I don't know, your view, your story to to what is all about how we can I guess find a bit of career clarity in, you know, as we move forward in life.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I always hence why I love speaking with athletes, because we always have to shift career at some point.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're not going to outrun it or outplay our sort of a physical retirement.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you think of sort of younger athletes who might be coming through a similar process to yourself, what sort of guidance would you give based on your experience?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the most important thing for me is at least, and from a young age.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Age, if I think these conversations can happen, will always help is that you're more than just the sport you play, you're more than just the athlete because I think especially when you're young, it's very easy to tie self-worth self-worth and belief to that specific thing that you're doing.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not able to like figure out who you are outside of it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where when I speak to folks, especially people who are coming up and playing, I one is there are two, three things I try to tell them.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: One is obviously you're more than just an athlete.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can take that time, I know it's hard, but you know, figure out ways to define yourself, who you are apart from that, you know.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: What do you like to do apart from playing?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: That helps.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that helps even if you're injured, right?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: You m sports may still work out for you.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: But even if you have those six, seven months where you're out of it, it it helps you still, you know, like not get too much in a bad state because you're like, okay, if I can't play, then who am who am I?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's one.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think the second thing that I really say is try to focus on the effort that you're putting in it, not the outcome.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think when I was younger, again, my a lot of my days, and this was something that Vishhal and I used to work on a lot.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but before I met him, a lot of my days were defined by did I win or did I lose?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or a lot of my matches were defined as that.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I remember having a conversation with him where he said, Do you do you think winning or losing is in your control?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah, of course.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Okay, if that's the case, then why do you lose?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Then you should always win.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think that's something that stayed with me because I was like, okay, he's right, if it was in my control, then why would I ever choose to lose?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I think I started putting a lot more focus on like my attitude and the effort I put in, because that's something that's in your control.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: So those two things I think I tell people because that that just helps you, I think, outside of sports as well.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, control your effort and your attitude.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can't control the outcome, so don't concern yourself with that.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: And really, you know, define yourselves by other things than just what you do.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: You're not just your work, you're more than that.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can find and cultivate one or two interests, serious interests that you like to do that you know you can attach some of who you are to that helps as well.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Those are two things that I tell everyone, sports or not, that yeah.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for sharing those.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I can definitely resonate with that.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're more than just an athlete, you're more than just a player and focus on the effort that you put in every day.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's quite simple.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, usually you wouldn't choose to lose.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it must be about something else, you know, to get that enjoyment.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Ambika, you mentioned that you've got a uh a newsletter or blog that goes out.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's gonna be lots of people interested in either getting in touch or following your story.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Where can they find you?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm usually quite responsive on LinkedIn.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: So just my LinkedIn Umbekapande, or you can just get in touch with me through Substack, my newsletter, The Painted Stock.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can just drop me a DM on my newsletter, and I'll probably get back to anybody in like a couple of days.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty responsive on those platforms.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to ask, just before we do go, the painted stalk, what's the what's the story behind that name?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it actually started out as a newsletter.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: So me and my sister and I, we said, you know, we have to write something together.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then when she came and visited me once in Bangalore, we sat down and we said, okay, we have to call it like a really cool name.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we just couldn't figure out what to call it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then my my friend who I live with, we saw just started shooting things at each other.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: We said, What should we call it?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Should we call it the my sister's name is Devti.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, should we call it a combination of our names?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then we started just talking about random things, you know, should we call it the blue chair or like, you know, the white wall or something like that, which is pointing out things.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then at some point, this ended up into me and my sister cornering my friend and saying, We need a name for a newsletter.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: And my friend is a massive bird watcher.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: So she just started naming all the birds that she knew.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: And one of them that she named was the painted stalk.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we were like, okay, that seems okay.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's something we can.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the thought was always, hey, we this is what we'll call it today, and then we'll change it later.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it just stuck.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then my sister also sort of told me, you know what?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: You do this, and I'm gonna write my own stuff.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's a writer, by the way.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's gonna be published by Bloomsbury in September.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: So she's a professional writer.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: So she's like, I will do my professional writing.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: You please do your painted stock.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: So then she just sort of left me high and dry.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm stuck with it, and now now it's a brand.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: So now I have folks pinging me and saying, Oh, I read the painted stalks.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, I can't change it now.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's too late.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of like it now.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's grown on me.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds good.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it needs a story, and it had a story.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I really like that.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm yeah.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so listen, once again, thank you for bringing your story, sharing your story with everybody.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate you taking the time out.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to this week's episode.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Reshaping a career is a team sport.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do it alone.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you want help working out your next step, it's all at secondwindadvisory.com forward slash academy.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Book a conversation with me there, and the link is also in the show notes.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, couple more things.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Send this episode to the person you thought of while you were listening.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's how this show reaches the people who need it.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ryan Gonçalves, take it easy, and I'll see you next time.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, before I do go, I want to drop a short thanks to Claire at Betty Brook Design, Nancy at Savvy Podcast Solutions, and Therese at copying content by loader.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Without them, this show would never have got together.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.