Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Top Chef Twins Brandon and Jonathan Dearden Ep. 196

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Top Chef Twins Brandon and Jonathan Dearden Ep. 196 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Learn how to manage the fucking business because nothing else
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matters except for profit. You live and die daily.
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Yeah, and that's what I'm saying.
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It doesn't matter what type of chicken steak you can make.
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Hello chefs. This is Chefs PSA and I'm your
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host Andre Natera. Today I'm joined by identical
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twin chefs Brandon and Jonathan Dearden, both competitors on the
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current season of Top Chef. Brandon is the chef and co-owner
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of Ember and Grano and a recent James Beard Award semi finalist
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for Best Chef Mountains, while Jonathan serves as corporate
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chef for Need Hospitality and Design.
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In this episode, we're going to talk about twin rivalry.
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They're very different career paths, fine dining, restaurant
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leadership and marketing yourself.
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Stay tuned. So who's a better chef?
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Like, like, yeah. So who's the who's the better
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cook between the two of you? I'm.
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Going to kick his ass every day. Yeah, every day.
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Listen to I'm going to fight. Fight to the death.
1:02
Who? Would win in a real fight.
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Well, yeah. It's it's, I probably win in a
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real fight. But you know, the The thing is,
1:08
is we've been super competitive our whole life, right?
1:10
But like, you know, to go back to the beginning, see, Jonathan
1:13
was smart when he got out of high school, he went straight
1:14
into culinary school and I was working in a restaurant, but I
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skipped all like, you know, I skipped that part.
1:20
So Jonathan actually we went two different paths.
1:23
So he decided to go right into culinary school right after
1:26
right after high school. I.
1:27
Didn't take a year off though. I know when I was 19 but I
1:30
enrolled like when I was 19. I didn't.
1:32
I dropped. Out of high school.
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And, you know, I got that good enough diploma and it's OK, you
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know, it's OK, yeah. Hey, it gets you to culinary.
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School. But to make a Long story short,
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he was a sous chef by what? What age?
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1919. Within my first year of culinary
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school, I was already a sous chef.
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And you know, listen, it wasn't I got lucky because I worked my
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ass off. Like it wasn't like, oh, this
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guy's great. No, no, no, no.
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I was like working the grill overtime.
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So they, they hustled me. They put me on salary.
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I ended up making less money than I did at hourly, but I
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wanted to. It's that.
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It's that classic salary trap. They're like, yeah, you can make
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this amount per week. You know, my, my, my salary,
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I'll never forget. It was 550 a week, OK, which is
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nothing, you know, it's like like 30, something like 28 and
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27, you know, like so. And I was making more money
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working overtime, working 2 jobs.
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And once I got put on that I couldn't even pay my mortgage,
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you know. But it I wasn't.
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You had a mortgage when you were 19.
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Yeah, I bought a condo when I was 19 years old.
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Oh yeah. Yeah, bro winning.
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Yeah, but it was funny because after I figured out what
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direction I wanted to go, you know, and I wanted to go and
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fine dining. And so being a fine you're not
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getting a sous chat position for I mean, I work years, but I
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went, you know, luxury resort, Michelin level.
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And so I worked, I call it the apprenticeship, but I worked at
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the Breakers Palm Beach for like 5 years and I worked every
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single outlet ended up in Lescalier, which is the French
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restaurant. And I was still a cook, you
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know, I mean, I was still a like a base level cook.
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And this dude was and the. Breakers is a legendary.
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And it was and, and, and for me, I learned so much within that,
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you know, you know, it was 8 restaurants at the time.
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I pretty much knew, you know, 90% of the outlets and opened a
3:05
couple of them. But you know, for me, it was
3:07
like I had capped out right? Like I wanted a sushi
3:10
reposition. It was never going to happen.
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And it's because I was, you know, addicted to drugs and
3:14
alcohol. And I went down this just
3:16
terror. I got a DY when I was 20.
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So they looked at me as like trouble, right?
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But thankfully, you know, with insurance and everything, I was
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able to go to rehab and, you know, stay out of prison and get
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my life on track. And so I actually Cafe Beluta is
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right down the street. But I was like, OK, in Florida,
3:31
in Florida, Palm Beach. And so I actually went right
3:34
down the street because I was like, hey, if you don't have a
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position for me, I'm just going to, you know, it's my time.
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And I went right down the street.
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And I learned more in six months at Cafe Balloon then the whole
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time at the Breakers. Don't get me wrong, I learned
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professionalism. But when it comes to actually
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cooking and like, you know, technique and misenplas and
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French technique and all of this.
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And then plus I, I, I think I had a, you know, it was a
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blessing because we were opening DB Bistro in Miami.
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And so Danielle was there, you know what I'm saying?
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And that's what changed everything, right?
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Because. Is the is the kitchen not not to
4:05
give all the DB secrets away? I'm sure it's a different vibe
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when he's there, when he's not. There.
4:09
Oh, yeah, That was. Oh my God, yeah.
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He would tell me stories, man. It was like, yeah.
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And, and I and like, and this was back in the day, so, you
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know, rules and regulations were a little bit different, you
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know, and. There was no cell phones.
4:19
No one was pulling. Them out, Yeah.
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That nobody could record you. You had a flip phone.
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No proof like this didn't happen.
4:24
No receipts. Yeah.
4:25
And, and what was funny is like I knew this kitchen was so
4:27
serious. When I walk in the kitchen and
4:29
then there's a piece of blue tape that goes stretches along
4:32
the kitchen. And guess what?
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It was. It was separating pastry from
4:35
savory. So the pastry chef at the time,
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Arnaud, I think was his name. You weren't allowed to go on his
4:40
side. You know what I mean?
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You couldn't touch it. Everything that had a piece of
4:42
blue tape on it was his. No.
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No stealing produce, no, just fucking could I have that?
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Like none of the savory in his. I was like, OK, I was like,
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Dang, so like you can't even prep over here.
4:51
Don't touch it. Yeah.
4:52
And it was just, I was like, OK, so this so.
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I want to ask whose idea was it to become a chef between the two
4:56
of you? Because identical twins for
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people that haven't figured it out yet, right?
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Identical twins at a certain .1 of you had the idea.
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The light bulb went off, said I'm going.
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To be a chef, yeah. So that was actually me and we
5:06
were. So just a little back story, my,
5:09
my mother and father are separated.
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We used to go visit my dad on the weekends.
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I know he used to be, he was a car, not a car salesman, but the
5:14
service manager. And then on the weekends he
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would work at this place called Dax Grill in Virginia and we
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would visit him on the weekends and family owned restaurants.
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So they made everything from scratch, but it was very simple
5:23
food, but everything was made from scratch.
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And we were, you know, we were young at the time, like 12 is
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when we started like, actually like sleeping the floor and
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being part, like helping out, doing dishes.
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And then, you know, I remember us being busboys, you know, to
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start. And then, you know, I was just
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so intrigued with, you know, like the yelling and the
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screaming and the tickets and the short order cooking inside
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the kitchen. Well, these these cooks weren't
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cooked. They were like short order
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cooks, you know, They were like. Kitchens are brutal right now,
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everyone knows it. Fewer people on the line,
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margins tighter than ever, and somehow the expectations keep
5:54
going up. There's just no room to miss
5:56
anymore. I was talking to a chef recently
5:58
who said the biggest stress wasn't the volume, it was the
6:01
mental load. Babysitting, food, timing,
6:03
everything perfectly, trying to be everywhere at once.
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And that's where equipment matters more than people want to
6:09
admit. Rationals.
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Technology comes up a lot in those conversations.
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The Icon B Pro, the Iverio Pro overnight roast that don't need
6:17
to be checked, custom programs for all your recipes,
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Consistency without hovering completely automated cleaning,
6:24
monitoring everything from your phone, The list goes on.
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And what really buys you the headspace?
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Less standing over pans and more time to leave the kitchen
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instead of constantly putting out tiny fires when you're down
6:35
to cook. When the prep list is rough,
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when the production ramps up, think rational.
6:40
We learn, you know, saute is French for deep fry.
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This is that this, this is the kind of cooks we were dealing
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with. They would throw a whole thing
6:46
of mushrooms in the fryer and call them sauteed mushrooms.
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OK, this is the cooks that we were.
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Yeah, the steak, well done. Throw it.
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Throw it in the fryer. Yeah.
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Like, well, hammered, you know? Yeah, but just to circle back.
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So like, well, somebody called out in the kitchen, obviously,
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and then, you know, I had a chance to step up and I remember
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my like, he's like, well, I just need help cleaning this fryer.
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And I was so excited to clean this fryer because I was just
7:06
part of it. And it was back, back back in
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the day. We used to filter it and then
7:09
put it back in with like, it was crazy contraption.
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And you know, from that day I was just addicted, man.
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Like anything that like, I don't know what it was.
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I was just addicted to the adrenaline.
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And like, you know, the, the, you know, the guy yelling at the
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tickets and the food going up and like, you know, the banter
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back and forth between the cooks.
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And like for me, I was like, I got the bug, you know?
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And it was funny because my brother saw how how much fun I
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was having in the back of the house because I remember
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skipping homecoming to work the line because somebody called out
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and I was just hooked. But I will say I learned so many
7:38
bad habits off the jump that I had to re get retrained.
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I remember the one thing that I learned.
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That when you were at cafe, did you Did you throw the munchies
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in the fryer? Absolutely not, but I will say
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so. So we had BBQ, we had wings,
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deep fried wings on the menu, right, Which is great.
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But the cook taught me that you take the the portion bag with A
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and wings in it and then you dip a little bit in the fryer so it
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melts it and then the chicken wings fall in.
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It's a. Super.
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Good hack. And so that's the way I was
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taught. And so I get to a fine dining
8:06
steakhouse and we had a chicken wing app and I remember doing
8:09
this. I'm like, no, you just do this.
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And then I put the bag in the fryer and the chef looks at me.
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He went to CIA and he's like, what the fuck are you doing?
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He's like, who? And I was like, well, this is
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how I was taught chef and I was 16 at the time, right?
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He's like, great, now drop the fryer and put new fryer roll in
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there. He's like, what are you doing?
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He's like, now you're going to put plastic in people's food.
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He's like, he's like, Oh my God. Like he's like, this is like he
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like he was just mind blown. And so I'm like, Dang, like I
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didn't know because I had no idea.
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You know, same thing the way you were taught.
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Yeah. Same thing with like, you know,
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just in when you're. When you're a young kid and you
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have never worked in a kitchen before and you see these little
8:44
tricks, Yes. I mean, I remember what my my
8:47
first kitchen job, they would pre portion the pasta in kits.
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I pre cook it and then pre portion it.
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And I remember I went home, bought a bunch of pasta, cooked
8:56
it and put it in a little bag, had it in my fridge like that.
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Like whenever anyone comes over and watch.
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This like 11 order or two orders.
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Yeah, yeah. So quickly, I want to go back to
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Brandon and his DUI situation. So let me tell you as a twin
9:10
brother and you know, I love this guy.
9:12
He he needed to drive to work, but his car got repo D.
9:16
They took his license from him. Yeah, they spent it for five
9:18
years. He convinced me to give me hit
9:20
my car and my license. OK, true story.
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I get pulled over. I get pulled over and he's like,
9:27
hey, your license is suspended. I'm like, what do you mean my
9:29
license is suspended? Like, no, it's not.
9:30
I have a clean, clean record. He's like, no, no, you it's
9:34
suspended. He's like, I can look at it, you
9:36
know, let me get right back to you.
9:37
He's like, yeah, you had a ticket in West Palm Beach.
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I lived in Fort Lauderdale. OK.
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He rolled a stop sign, got a ticket, didn't pay it.
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My license was suspended and I had to go to West Palm Beach to
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pay the ticket and I had to tell this cop because they they were
9:53
like, they gonna arrest me because it's a criminal offense
9:54
in Florida with knowledge. And I was like, okay, I'm going
9:57
to be truthful. And you, I hopefully you can
9:59
believe me. I have a Facebook picture to
10:01
prove it. But we're twins and I gave him
10:02
my license and my car. He's like, okay, that's crazy.
10:06
He gave me a warning. He's like, but go take this
10:08
tick, go take care of this ticket.
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Man. I was so mad.
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I was so mad. So to the people out there, do
10:12
not give somebody your license and your your car.
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Like literally my car. We switch cars because he wasn't
10:17
allowed to drive his car. So I drove his car in Fort
10:19
Lauderdale with my license and he drove my.
10:21
Car I was trying to fly, I was breaking the law.
10:22
And like, I mean, obviously, yeah, I feel bad for that
10:24
situation just so you know, but I, I ended up, of course it's
10:27
because at the Breakers Resort, like on Palm Beach Island, it's
10:30
super nice. But then once you cross the
10:31
bridge, there's what we call Tamron Ave., where you can get
10:34
crack cocaine and on all that stuff, right?
10:36
And so, like, there was always police, you know, stopped up
10:38
there. So like they'd be pulling over
10:39
people just to, you know, just to do it.
10:41
What are you doing here? And so, you know, I ended up
10:42
riding a bike for five years. But you know, yeah, it worked
10:45
out pretty good. But I say that story now and I'm
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like, why the hell did I do that, you know?
10:48
Yeah. So, so, so Jonathan split off
10:51
and he was already a sous chef. Then he had an opportunity to go
10:53
to Jade Mountain in Saint Lucia To be well, I worked.
10:56
With Chef Allen first, yeah. And he was kind of like my
10:58
mentor. So I knew like right away, like
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he was chasing Michelin star James Beard.
11:02
You know, he wanted like his caliber is fantastic.
11:07
You know, he worked with what was the first ship besides
11:08
Ballude. Then it was Charlie Palmer, you
11:11
know, and then you went to Vegas and worked with Wolfgang and
11:14
then you made the crazy idea to take a nice, he had a nice
11:17
executive suit salary in Vegas to go work at Alinea for $8.50
11:21
an hour. Crazy.
11:22
Good bloody decision, yeah. It was.
11:24
It was worth. The best decision of your entire
11:26
life. I I I Well, because I wanted to
11:28
do it, but I what? Year were you and Alinea?
11:29
So I want to say it was like 2011 2012 2. 1012 because we
11:34
come to the James Beard House and then you went to go work at
11:35
Delaney. After Yeah.
11:36
And you know, I had went before, so when I was still living in
11:39
Florida at Cafe Blued, we knew we wanted to get out of Florida.
11:41
So I went to go STAJ at a bunch of places.
11:43
Yeah. Joel Robichon in Las Vegas.
11:44
We I went to DC, New York, NY Danielle Cafe Blued over there.
11:49
And then in Chicago, I fell in love.
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I staged at True. I also staged at L2O which was
11:54
freaking. One of the best meals I've ever
11:56
had in my life. L2O.
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Well, that's a great restaurant. Listen well.
12:00
Kirkley was the chef when I when I.
12:02
Kirkley was just stepping up into Laurent Gras's position.
12:05
But Laurent Gras was still there when I was there.
12:06
He's a motherfucker. And dude, he.
12:08
Yeah. But it came, it came circle.
12:09
It came full circle because he remembered me.
12:11
Yeah. When I, when I was working at
12:13
Saison. And I almost, I am because like,
12:15
if for people that don't know, Laurent Gras is like, he's like
12:17
my superhero. He's you know he like and he's
12:19
you know he. Yeah, he's the.
12:20
Chef, he's a legend. He's like chef, chef.
12:22
Yeah, and, and, and honestly, I get chills just thinking about
12:24
it. When I remember like a pinnacle
12:26
in my career is when I'm breaking down Hamachi and he's
12:28
on one side, Joshua Skeens is on the other side and I'm breaking
12:31
the Hamachi. What's what's crazy is people
12:34
that listen to the show will have probably heard Laurent Gras
12:37
name in a legendary status more more so than than people
12:42
realize. You know, I mean, Breeden talked
12:45
about him. I'm trying to think who else
12:47
talk about, you know, one of the we had we had people don't know
12:51
he was Ducas chef. Yeah, right.
12:53
He got him the most special stars.
12:54
At Louis Cons, Yeah, like when, when Ducas was like taking over
12:58
the world, like Laurent Grow was the fucking man.
13:01
Yeah, yeah. Priscilla is like that's that's
13:03
a name. He was the first person that
13:04
ever had that digital cookbook. Yeah.
13:07
And you remember that blog he had?
13:09
Yes, yes, 100% yeah. I mean, the guy rides his bike
13:12
everywhere. He's just a legend and what he
13:14
does with food is amazing. He looked like a ninja when he
13:16
was in L2O. Like a ninja suit wasn't even a
13:18
chef jacket. It was all black.
13:19
But he remembers me because I remember Matthew Kirkley.
13:21
Guy was working with Ungormer. Ji was dodging, but he was
13:23
fucking up this crab salad, like, I mean, and it was so
13:26
easy. It was crab and avocado and
13:27
grapefruit segments or something like that.
13:29
It was like super easy and Matthew's like you're fucking
13:31
the salad up, you know, and he's like, you know, I don't recall,
13:34
but I I remember just tell him like, dude, I can make this like
13:37
it's really easy. And I'm like, you just have to
13:38
follow instructions like it's not hard.
13:40
And so I started playing them up and then, you know, Laurent
13:42
Gras, he saw it and he's like, no, this is great.
13:45
This is great. Like and he gave the the thumbs
13:47
up. But I but when circle when we
13:49
were open up the anglers at Saison and he came in to take
13:52
over for Joshua Skeens. I'm like, chef, do you Remember
13:54
Me? I was at L2O, you know, blah,
13:55
blah, blah. He's like, yeah, crab salad.
13:57
And I'm like. Yeah, dude, that must have been
13:59
like a Dude I fanboy moment. Right.
14:01
How did I miss how I think I'm in an alternate time?
14:04
I don't remember. He.
14:06
So him being at, I'm sorry. Yeah.
14:09
So 2000, in 2017, he took so Joshua Skeens and This is why I
14:15
like, and I'll get into this later, but This is why this is
14:17
when I lost respect for a little bit of Michelin when, when, when
14:20
this happened. But Joshua Skeens was working on
14:21
2 new angler projects. And so I was I was hired on as
14:24
the executive chef for Los Angeles and but I had to train
14:28
in at Ceisson and then also help with San Francisco.
14:30
But Laurent Gras was taking over Joshua Skeins spot at Ceisson
14:34
and then they lost him. They lost their third star and
14:38
only got 2 when Laurent with Laurent Gras.
14:41
Exactly. And I and I was like, I
14:43
remember, I remember talking to Paul, I was like, you know, it's
14:46
so unbelievable to me that you know, they of course when the
14:49
chef leaves, they lose a star. I get that.
14:51
But like for Laurent Gras, like dude, that's that.
14:55
Literally that literally like took all the credibility out of
14:58
my soul. Man, the guy who's gotten three
15:00
stars at L2O, Luis Khan's and who knows where else, right?
15:04
Yeah, and I mean. I know they didn't get 3 stars
15:06
at Peacock but. Still, dude, he's like, I mean,
15:08
when it comes to seafood, this guy is the man.
15:10
But anyway that that that's what happened.
15:12
So Laurent Kraut took over and they got they lost the star and
15:16
you know, a lot of people were upset, but they weren't as upset
15:18
as like I, you know, if you're a young cook and young chef and
15:21
you're looking towards Michelin as like the pinnacle, you know,
15:25
this is frustrating. Like I wasn't even mad about
15:27
like the chicken cart getting a Michelin star, the tacos get a
15:30
Michelin star. But like Laurent Gras is like.
15:32
Dude he is decorated. What was the?
15:35
I'm, I'm sure there was a narrative.
15:37
Yeah. And, and, and it might have been
15:38
a real narrative, or it might have just been on the streets.
15:40
Yeah. What was the narrative as to why
15:42
he lost the star? Was there like was?
15:44
How did people justify this? So what I what I was told is
15:47
that every time a chef leaves, they lose a star or something
15:50
like that, or they lose the stars, go with them and then
15:52
they get re awarded. And so yeah.
15:54
And so not, but I was. I blacked it out of my mind
15:56
because I was so upset. Did L2O not get 3 stars in their
15:59
first year? I you know what?
16:00
I'm not sure that was so long ago, but I remember L2O having
16:03
three stars. Yeah.
16:04
And, you know, but it's just crazy to me, like, especially as
16:07
Saison held 33 Michelin stars for, you know, it was like 2014
16:10
through 17. Per SE, got it.
16:12
Per SE, Le Bernadin. I mean, yeah, French lottery,
16:14
They got three stars the first year.
16:16
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I don't know.
16:19
That's what I'm saying, yeah. And like we could, but it was
16:22
Laurent Gras was the man. I remember I I'm used to
16:24
breaking down my fish with a slicer knife.
16:26
Mizzono slicer, right? But he's like, he's like, he's
16:28
like, do you have a debba debba knife?
16:29
And I'm like, I do chef. He's like, you should use that.
16:31
But I don't like to use the debba.
16:33
But he's like, it's more comfortable.
16:34
But I knew how to do it because I've I've learned how to break
16:36
down, especially Hamachi with with with a debba.
16:39
But I did it anyway. You know, I'm like, yeah, no
16:40
problem. I got a Masimo debba.
16:42
No problem. Like let's do the Masimoto
16:44
debba. And like, it was just funny when
16:46
I was sitting there, like shaking because I'm just like,
16:49
dude, I can't believe both these chefs are watching me.
16:50
You know, we did like, cured kombu and we were doing research
16:53
development. But it was just like, man, like
16:55
walking the farmers market with Laurent Gras and watching him
16:59
get excited about, like, smelling vegetables.
17:01
Tasting. I think he's back in New York,
17:03
but I'm not sure. I mean is.
17:05
He still chefing? I think you know, I'm not sure.
17:07
I know he was working on some like tableware and stuff, but I
17:09
really haven't been following him, you know?
17:11
But great chef, man. So here's a hot.
17:15
I want a hot take. Yeah.
17:16
So you went to culinary school? Yes.
17:19
Did you go to culinary? School, yeah, I actually got
17:21
smart and I knew back in the day you had to get you like it was
17:23
you supposed to go to culinary school, but I went I went to the
17:26
I was smart so I didn't I knew that I didn't have enough money
17:29
to go to CIA or Johnson and Wales, so I went to the Florida
17:31
Culinary Institute in West Palm Beach, FL I.
17:33
Went to the Art Institute in Fort Lauderdale.
17:35
Yeah, right. So culinary school did did it
17:40
help you? Did it hurt you?
17:42
Did it? Was it just general orientation?
17:44
So, so I think, I think education is important on all
17:46
levels. Do you need to go to culinary
17:48
school to cook? No.
17:50
But did it help me throughout my career and push me further in my
17:54
career? Yes.
17:55
And what pushed me further more was the, you know, the
17:58
marketing, the business aspect. You know, I knew how to cost a
18:01
recipe when I was, you know, 20 years old because that's what I
18:05
learned at school and then I applied it as a sous chef in my
18:08
real life. So it helped me for my career
18:10
and like pushed me forward. And I was, you know, I was going
18:13
back to what Brandon said is like, I knew that I wanted to
18:16
manage kitchens, not just be a a great cook, you know, and I kind
18:20
of like, you know, I was an executive chef by by the age of
18:22
22, you know, so I was, did I know what I was doing?
18:24
Hell no. Did I know how to cook?
18:26
Absolutely. But I didn't know anything about
18:27
food cost, labor or anything like that.
18:29
So but I knew in my mind, my heart soul that I wanted to, I
18:32
wanted to move up the chain. So, you know, he's over there,
18:36
you know, working at Elenia and I'm paying his rent.
18:38
Yeah, that's funny. He like he can't even watch.
18:41
He's like, I gotta, I gotta choose between darks and whites
18:43
this week. Yeah, because I don't have
18:44
enough money to do 2 loads. And I'm like, Dang, bro, I'm
18:47
like, you know, So I was like giving him money because I was
18:50
supporting his dream, you know? But I was living vicariously
18:53
through him. I wasn't willing to.
18:54
Give he was making bank in Saint Lucia, don't don't.
18:56
He wasn't like he was broke too. He was making bank tax free, so.
18:59
Yeah, tax free money, man, it was, it was beautiful, you know,
19:02
but also I that's where my career jumped.
19:04
Off Have you guys ever worked together?
19:07
No, but not necessarily. He just not necessarily we've
19:10
done dinners together and stuff, but like, you know, we're two
19:12
different types of chefs. Yeah.
19:14
And so for. But what's crazy to go back to
19:16
culinary school, I went to culinary school and I already
19:17
had like the prerequisite to go to go to culinary.
19:20
Like I already knew how to prep, knife work, all that, all that
19:22
stuff. What was valuable for me is not
19:25
spending a ton of money, right? Because I don't care what
19:27
anybody says. The ROI is not there.
19:29
When you get out of culinary school, you are starting as a
19:31
prep cook. You're starting at the bottom.
19:32
But what was valuable for me is I actually went back because I
19:35
already had all the prerequisites of class.
19:38
I went back for international baking and pastry and so I took
19:40
a nine month program that really set me up for success in the
19:43
future because when it came to pastries and baking, like, you
19:47
know, I can make chocolate chip cookies like right now, by the
19:49
way, I dogged him for that. I was like baking and pastry
19:51
like you. That's that's stupid.
19:53
You know, like, why would you waste your time on that?
19:55
You know, like, and it's really gotten me far because I can't
19:57
explain it, you know, especially at Alinea, you know, like Alinea
19:59
like I started working the pit like it was, I was working the
20:01
hot app station. And this is a funny story
20:03
because like, the chocolate guy didn't show up and nobody else
20:06
in the everybody was savory chefs, right?
20:07
And so they're like, and I remember Chef Matt was like,
20:09
does it is our 12:00 meeting? He's like, does anybody know how
20:11
to temper chocolate? And I'll shot my hand and I'm
20:13
like, yeah, chef, I do. I don't souvy it, but I I can
20:16
temper chocolate, you know? And he's like, well, you're
20:18
making the chocolate balls. And I'm like, OK, no problem.
20:20
And if you work pastry, you know that pastries don't start until
20:23
mid service. 730 And so I would set up my station 1st and then I
20:26
go downstairs in the wine room and make and make the chocolate
20:28
balls. But they had a specific
20:30
technique on how to temper the chocolate and they double double
20:32
bagged it and then put in the circulator, which respectfully,
20:35
I thought was stupid. You want to keep chocolate far
20:37
away from water. And then plus like a double
20:38
boiler just works like it's just, it's, it's really easy to
20:41
do. But like, anyway, so I'm down in
20:43
the I'm down in the, I'm, I'm down in the wine room making
20:48
chocolate because it's a controlled room, right?
20:49
And it's funny because like, you know, the chef is like, you
20:51
know, like he's testing the ball.
20:53
I'm like, chef, I know it's going to be good.
20:54
Is that that was the time when we did like a chestnut dessert
20:56
where we broke the chocolate ball on the table, you know, and
20:58
I know I only needed forty and they were with balloons.
21:01
Like it was easy, like for me as you know, but nobody else knew
21:04
how to temper chocolate. And you know, I knew these
21:06
temperatures like the back of my hand because I went to pastry
21:08
school, right? And so it's just really funny
21:10
because I, we had these little birthday chocolates too, and we
21:14
ran out and usually the chocolate guy makes it.
21:16
And so I'm in the middle of service, pastry guy next to me
21:18
is like, shit, I don't have any more birthday balls.
21:20
And I'm like, dude, it's easy. So on my station, I got the
21:22
induction double boiler, but the sous chef comes over.
21:24
He's like, we don't do it this way chef.
21:26
And I'm like, I know, but chef, I'm not going to go set up a
21:28
circulator down in the basement to double bag chocolate and then
21:31
run down and wait an hour and a half for it to be tempered when
21:34
I only need 1/4 of a cup, you know, And then, so it was funny
21:37
because Chef Matt, you know, he was like, he's like, make sure
21:40
you double check, make sure. And I'm like, it's just a ball.
21:43
Like it's, it's, you know, it's like a bonbon, but a circle.
21:45
And it was really, it was so funny because I, I just thought
21:49
in my head like, you know, as you know, coming to Elenia as a
21:52
sous chef, there's a lot of young managers that just
21:55
shouldn't be, they just shouldn't be managers.
21:57
You were the sous. Chef No, I was not, no no, I was
21:59
just a chef to partique. But what I what I what I from
22:03
what I know now and not to, you know, everybody who's just doing
22:06
the best they can there. But like, if I would have known
22:08
what I know now, I would have talked to Grant himself about
22:11
like my what I wanted to do there because there was too many
22:14
layers, you know, and you have to make, you know, like when
22:17
when as soon as Mike Bagel got begal, I should say he as soon
22:20
as he got promoted, I knew my I was was over for me.
22:23
That right. I was like, OK, it's going to
22:24
take years because, you know, Chef Simon was behind him, you
22:27
know what I mean? And so I knew that, OK, well,
22:28
there's only next and Avery. And so I'm like, man, it's going
22:31
to take years to get into a position, you know, and like it.
22:34
You know, the what I learned there was excellent.
22:36
And you know I. And you were there.
22:38
I've been when Elena was. Like pumping #7 in the world.
22:41
I mean, it was dude, it was, it was pumping.
22:43
But I will admit, man, I saw so, so much talent get chewed up and
22:47
spit out. And especially 1, I remember one
22:49
guy, Caleb, man, he's the, he's the chef that was in at Schwa
22:52
now. And I just saw him on Instagram
22:54
like oh shit, Caleb dude, I remember training this guy and
22:57
he looked at me. He's like, I'm not doing this.
22:59
I can't do this. This is stupid.
23:00
And I'm like, what do you mean? I'm like, chef, it's OK, hey,
23:03
just stay with me, you know, because I, I appreciated stages,
23:05
you know, I want to talk to people because it's a silent
23:07
kitchen. But I remember him walking out,
23:09
but he was talented, you know, and that's, I mean, he's a chef
23:10
that was in a straw now, but it was that was a, that was a very
23:13
difficult kitchen to, to, to work in.
23:15
And if you didn't change your mindset, like you're not going
23:17
to make it right. Like 100%, every single thing,
23:20
every decision that you made was Alinea focused.
23:22
Yeah. And I, I worked with Brandon for
23:23
a week because I wanted to understand.
23:25
It so I took a vacation, worked with him for a week.
23:26
Mommy was like, hey, this is you bro.
23:30
We clean the kitchen so much, but it taught like, listen, I
23:32
haven't high level of respect. There's one thing to be able to
23:35
cook very good, but to master the artistry of cooking and
23:38
deliver in a performance like that for a dining experience, I
23:42
knew right away this wasn't for me.
23:43
You know, this is I'm like, I don't vibe well with three
23:47
Michelin. Starbucks, it was for me.
23:48
Look, look, you loved it dude. When I when I did my 2 day
23:50
storage, I thought I was a good cook.
23:52
I thought I was, you know, because I would run circles
23:54
around people and I would cook my ass.
23:55
You had you had kitchen, house and brother.
23:57
I was I walked, but when I walked in that back door my
24:00
first storage day and I saw people moving and they were so
24:04
much better than me. Like that was the bottom line.
24:07
The the the girl that I was paired with.
24:09
I forgot her name, but I wish I could stay connected.
24:11
She's like, we have to get this Demi glass on by by noon.
24:14
You know how to cook. That's not the problem.
24:16
The problem is getting your team to do what you want when you
24:19
want it. That's leadership.
24:21
My book, Culinary Leadership Fundamentals, breaks down
24:23
exactly how to run a kitchen without losing your mind.
24:26
Stop yelling. Start leading.
24:27
Get the book at Chefs psa.com. So she so she's like we have,
24:31
she's like, hey, suit up, we got to get ready.
24:33
We have to have this Demi gloss on by 12:00 PM.
24:36
And I'm like, OK, chef, like no problem.
24:37
She's like, so I need you to cut this mirror pawn 6 minutes.
24:40
And I'm like, you know, anyway, I start hammering and then, you
24:43
know, it's funny because like, you know, they're everybody's
24:45
looking, you know, that's a new guy in the kitchen.
24:46
And I'm just like, I'm just doing the best I can.
24:48
But, you know, she's like, it's not fast enough, Chef.
24:51
You got to go faster. And I'm like, I'm going as fast
24:52
as I can in my mind. And it's funny because she did
24:55
the same task the next day half the time.
24:58
Wow. Yeah.
24:59
She's like and you think you're a gangster.
25:00
Yeah, she's like, she's like, no, stand there.
25:02
You fucking watch me and I'm like, yes, chef.
25:04
And then I'm like, what's this girl gonna?
25:06
You know what I mean? Dude, she's smoked it, bro.
25:08
Like, I mean, she's like it has to go on by this time it has to
25:10
cook for six hours. She's like that, you know, and
25:13
I'm, it was so serious and I was just like, dude, that's crazy,
25:15
you know, And then, and it was just funny because that, that
25:17
was kind of the, the drive in the perseverance that like I
25:20
needed at that time and that, that, that tunnel vision,
25:23
anything in the outside world could have been going on and I
25:25
would have never even known because there was only two
25:27
things that I was thinking about. 1, survival.
25:30
And two, my prep list and being set up on time.
25:32
And that was it. Nothing else was important.
25:34
Any family, any, any, anything family happening outside
25:38
couldn't make it didn't, it didn't even matter.
25:40
I was working six days a week to, to focus on this path and it
25:44
was absolutely crazy. And tunnel vision was like at
25:47
the top of the, you know, top of the chain.
25:48
It was funny. Yeah, but I, I'm gonna, I wanna
25:50
go back to the, to the level of intensity.
25:53
So number one, I get in there and I am 100% focused working
25:56
with him. And he is, I'm like his little
25:58
bitch, you know? And I'm, I'm used to running
26:01
kitchens right at this point. I'm an executive chef.
26:03
I'm overseeing 60 something staff.
26:05
I got 5 sous chefs. I got 2 pastry chefs.
26:07
Like I am the one telling people what to do.
26:09
He's like, hey, do this, hey, do that, do this.
26:12
And I'm like moving. I'm running.
26:13
OK, running. Not only that, but finally after
26:16
like day three, day four, I got to work the hotline.
26:19
OK. Chef Mike Bagel.
26:20
Yeah, and Simon Davies, you know, like they're on the other
26:24
side. I'm, I'm a commie cook, but on
26:26
the hot side. Brandon's on the other side.
26:27
And I'm I take, there's a little bit of salt that fell on the
26:30
table. I wipe it onto the floor.
26:32
Dude, Chef Mike, because looks at me, he's like, do we look
26:34
like the type of restaurant that swipes stuff on the floor?
26:36
And I'm like, no, chef, it's like, don't ever do that again.
26:39
I'm like, I'm like, Dang, I'm like, you know what?
26:42
And I remember that till this day, because every time I see
26:44
somebody wipe something on the floor, that's a that's a, that's
26:47
a bad habit. Yeah, it's a bad habit.
26:49
Then you're stepping. You're stepping in shit tray or
26:51
Yep, yeah, a little trailer. Or in your hand?
26:52
In your hand. Yeah, well, even when we when we
26:54
scrubbed the kitchen down 400 times a day, we had hotel pants
26:57
and squeegees and I'm like, I just cleaned the spot and then
26:59
Brandon's coming back and cleaning it right after me.
27:01
And you know, that drove me crazy because I'm like, it's not
27:03
efficient. There's a certain order for the
27:05
scrub down, right? Yeah, like.
27:06
Top to bottom, top to bottom, you're scrubbing your table,
27:08
you're squeezing it into a hotel pan, you're putting it down the
27:11
drain. But just that experience itself
27:13
just opened up my mind to This is why we do this, because if
27:17
you wipe that salt on the on the floor, you're wiping everything
27:20
on the floor, right? Doesn't matter what it is you
27:22
know and you. Have to leave it better than you
27:24
found it, but it's. And the and the same thing I
27:26
think you know, Brandon also made a good .1 time.
27:28
We were talking like about when you're working a station, you
27:32
know, nobody should know what you were working on right there.
27:35
Shouldn't like if you're breaking down salmon, there
27:36
shouldn't be salmon scales over here and over there.
27:39
You know, when you're working with equipment in the kitchen,
27:41
like your RoboCop should go to the same spot where it's being
27:44
stored. Dude, Alinea, they had tape
27:48
where the scale was. This is where the scale stayed.
27:50
Don't move it. You bring, don't move it.
27:51
You bring whatever you need to measure, come over to the scale.
27:54
Vitamix, Vitamix, Vitamix. And I implemented that in my
27:58
kitchens because I was like, you know what?
27:59
It is smart and efficient and you're never looking for
28:02
something. You, you could learn a lot of
28:05
really good practices and these ultra high end kitchens on how
28:08
to work efficiently, how to organize yourself 1000%, how to
28:11
make sure you know, time is of the essence like you were
28:13
talking about. There's so much good that comes
28:15
from, from, from working in a lot of these kitchens, But
28:19
sometimes there's also some bad. And I and I've noticed, and I'm
28:24
curious what your thoughts are. Sometimes you you hire people,
28:29
it's based on resume and then they come in and it's.
28:31
Like they suck. And it they, it's hard to adapt
28:33
when yeah, it's, it's easy to adapt when everything's perfect.
28:35
It's very difficult to adapt when nothing's.
28:37
Perfect. Yeah, 100%.
28:39
And I'll say this, and I mean with the utmost respect, but if
28:42
I see Thomas Keller on the resume, I'm not hiring, not
28:46
hiring and and here's. And.
28:48
Here's now. Now, here's the thing, say what
28:51
you want, but I've worked with and I have so much respect for
28:53
that group and I have so much respect for Thomas Keller.
28:55
And obviously working at Alinea with Grant Hacketts, he's a
28:57
protege of Thomas Keller. But these cooks come out here
29:00
brainwashed. And I've worked with enough
29:03
Bouchon cooks and enough French Laundry cooks, especially in
29:06
California where it's like they can't, they're brainwashed.
29:09
They cannot adjust and stick and move.
29:11
And like it's frustrating. The only one that I will say
29:15
Damien Evers shot out, he was at Bouchon for 10 years.
29:18
But you know, he had this mentality and I told him so I
29:20
was like, you know, 'cause he, we got paired together when we
29:23
were open up anglers. And I remember telling Paul the,
29:26
you know, the culinary director or his name is Jonathan, but I
29:29
was told Paul was like, you know, usually I never like I'd
29:31
never hire French Laundry at all because of these, you know, of
29:35
the brainwashing, you know what I mean?
29:36
And I don't care what anybody says.
29:37
You can say what you want. And you know, I own my own
29:39
restaurants now. So like mashed?
29:40
Potatoes. They only do it that way, yeah.
29:41
So like, so like I was so sick of hearing.
29:44
So when I was at Oreo, I also worked with my, the two sous
29:46
chefs I work with, They came from Bouchon, right?
29:48
But they did things a certain way.
29:50
And that was it. And it's just like they couldn't
29:52
open their mind to how to like. And that's the thing.
29:55
And so for the young chefs and cooks out there, if you go to a
29:58
restaurant to work, wherever you worked before is wonderful, but
30:02
do not bring that up every single time you were in the
30:04
kitchen, that is. Used to do it this way, yeah.
30:06
Well, when I was at French Laundry, we did it this way and
30:09
it's, it's almost unbearable, right?
30:10
Yeah. And so, and, you know, that's no
30:12
disrespect. It just is what it is, right?
30:13
And so like, I mean, I just went through this recently.
30:15
You know, I have this, you know, I have a lot of DMS of like
30:17
cooks that want to come work and, you know, and it's, and
30:19
it's funny because I saw Per SE on the resume and like, oh, I
30:22
want to get back to the mountains.
30:23
And I'm like, oh, that's nice. Nope.
30:26
Well, I will, I will say another thing, you know, throughout my
30:28
career when I see culinary schools on resumes, I, you know,
30:32
that doesn't matter. Like I look for experience and
30:35
#1 do you pass the vibe check? You know, I think a lot of, you
30:38
know, a lot of this business is about who you know and the
30:41
relationships that you create over the years that you work.
30:44
Don't burn any bridges, you know, leave things better than
30:47
when you got them. Leave a job better than when
30:49
you, you know, got there just 'cause you went to CIA doesn't
30:54
anything doesn't. Honestly, it's as the it's at
30:57
ain't where you from, it's where you at.
30:58
Yeah, that's that's 100%. None of that matters when the
31:02
shit hits the fan. Yeah, yeah.
31:03
Another hot take is, you know, like I remember I, there was
31:06
only one vision for me and that was 3 Michelin star.
31:08
That was, you know, that was five star, 5 diamond.
31:10
That was like it was the only thing I can think about.
31:12
And so when I started at Oreo 1 Michelin star, Vincent Poiselle,
31:16
one of the best chefs I've ever worked for a French chef, you
31:18
know, he's from Paris and like he, like, I hate to say it, but
31:22
he was in the French connect and you know, Joe Robuchon and
31:25
Latelli, you know, and, and you know, the techniques he taught
31:27
me, I'll, I'll, I'll bring you know, wherever, like making a
31:31
large, like a large amount of food, 400 covers, but still at
31:35
that Michelin quality. And that really taught me
31:37
production, right. And so The thing is, is then,
31:39
you know, go like working in this style of cuisine.
31:43
And I'll just say, and Charlie Palmer is the one who actually
31:46
told me, you know, listen, Lenny is great, but that's for like 1%
31:49
of the world. And he's like, you know, you're
31:51
going to find yourself, you pigeonholed yourself into this
31:53
three Michelin star mindset. And he's like, you know, so like
31:56
if me as a restaurant or if I was going to hire you for this
31:59
hotel project, the Knickerbocker in New York City where it's
32:03
catering, it's brunch, it's lunch, it's banquets.
32:05
He's like, not only will you fail, but also you're only going
32:09
to make a certain amount of money if you can't oversee more
32:11
services. And I'm like, you know, that's
32:13
so true. I didn't really think about it
32:14
like that. And so like, that's my only
32:16
thing. I only knew dinner service, you
32:17
know, And so for me, it was really when I started working at
32:20
the Wolfgang Puck Group that I started to branch out.
32:23
I worked Wolfgang Puck fine dining.
32:24
So I came back from millennia. I was going to go back to
32:27
Charlie Palmer in Las Vegas and then Wolfgang Pucks, you know,
32:30
Matt Hurley, the chef at Palazzo, He's like, are you
32:32
coming back, back to Vegas? He's like, we got to get you to
32:34
the group, you know? And so I was offered a position
32:36
I couldn't refuse. And I Yep.
32:38
And I was the executive sue at Spago at Caesar's Palace.
32:42
And I started working with Eric Klein, which is another great
32:45
mentor of mine. He's an awesome, but rightfully
32:49
so. When I came out of millennia, I
32:50
was hot. I was like.
32:52
Don't tell me what to do. First day, first day, I'm like,
32:58
I got big capital letters. Don't slam the door here.
33:02
Don't slam the ice. Put the ice scoop back.
33:04
I'm like, and you know, and what I realized and Eric, I remember
33:07
Eric because he was just telling me he was calming.
33:09
He was like, hey, listen, I know you came out of a three Michelin
33:11
star restaurant. He's like, but also you have to
33:13
understand, like Maria, the prep cook is not going to be
33:17
receptive to that type of leadership.
33:19
And I'm and that changed my perception and I remember and I
33:22
had a coach. You out of a lot of those
33:23
situations. And he would for the first six
33:25
months. It was very difficult for me.
33:27
You know why? Because I was working by myself
33:29
and we, we had four sous chefs and we lost all of them.
33:31
It was just me and Eric. And I would imagine that, and
33:34
I'm not saying that maybe you had this there, but I would
33:36
imagine like you probably got in trouble a lot like someone, hey,
33:39
can we, can we talk? Yes, yes, someone kind of like
33:41
who you spoke to. Yeah, because I would.
33:43
It was true. I would just blaze down.
33:45
I'd be working the grill station.
33:46
I like. I would be.
33:47
And I'd be cursed person and yelling in like you, you know,
33:50
you suck. But like what people don't
33:51
understand is not everybody has that same drive and passion and,
33:55
you know, mentality. Yeah, exactly like we're.
33:57
Willing to deal with as much as they're willing.
33:59
To listen. Yeah, exactly.
34:00
And like, listen, Maria's leaving at 3:30.
34:02
She's gonna go pick up her kids and she's gonna, you know, and
34:04
that's, that's what she's gonna do.
34:05
Like good example I had, you know, I call it the Latino force
34:07
on the line at Las Vegas. And you know, they are solo and
34:10
I that's what I miss in Montana, let me tell you.
34:12
But careful now. Yeah, dude, I'm like, yo, hey,
34:15
if I don't want to say, I don't want to say, but I was like, yo,
34:17
if ice is giving you trouble, come out to Montana, bro.
34:19
They won't see you come out here, bro.
34:20
You know what I mean? Like, but it's it's funny
34:24
because like I like I'll never forget when I learned how to be
34:28
a better leader. My life got better, you know,
34:30
and I really took, I took coaching classes.
34:32
I took I did so much because I didn't really click for me at
34:35
Oriel. Oriel was a union environment.
34:37
And I remember Chef Vincent like, because I couldn't wrap my
34:40
head around. So I'm just going back to when I
34:41
was working at Oriel as a sous chef.
34:43
I couldn't wrap my head around in a union environment how the
34:46
cooks would just wrap up the food and then walk off the line.
34:48
Oh, yeah. Without cleaning.
34:50
Yeah. Yeah.
34:50
Because it wasn't their job. Yeah.
34:52
And then they're like, they're like Chef you.
34:53
It's union. You can't take the job away from
34:55
the Stewart. And I'm like, what are you
34:56
talking about? Clean up your shit.
34:57
Like you can't just leave the line and then Vince, since like,
35:00
hey, this is union, this is a union property.
35:02
They don't you have to understand that's not part of
35:04
their job. And I'm like, do you mean it's
35:05
not my job? That was my work, dude.
35:06
Fuming. And so anyway.
35:08
Smoke out of the ears, everything.
35:09
So here we go. We're in HR the next day right
35:13
off the bat, so and Vincent, Vincent was like, I remember
35:17
chef, he looked at me. We go into HR, he's like, don't
35:20
say a word. And I'm like, how am I?
35:22
How am I supposed to defend myself, chef?
35:23
Like they don't know. You don't understand the
35:24
standard we're trying to go for here.
35:26
We're in the HR office. Let me tell you something.
35:28
They're not there for you, right?
35:29
They will cut the manager so fast compared to the employee
35:34
and so it's funny because like I start talking and all I feel is
35:38
the grip of death from Chef Vincent and he said.
35:40
Shut up. Yeah.
35:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because she was like, well, we,
35:43
I want to talk about this situation and tell me, you know,
35:45
blah, blah, blah. And she was like a lawyer, you
35:47
know what I mean? And so I'm like, well, you know,
35:49
you know, I want to make sure the standard's high.
35:50
It's not. And she's like, Oh, yeah, tell
35:52
me more. And trying it out of you.
35:54
And so then we doing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, please.
35:57
Tell me, how do you feel that way?
35:58
And exactly and. Anything you say can and me
36:01
will. Yeah.
36:02
And so it was funny because I actually, and I will say this
36:05
until I'm blue in the face, working in a union environment,
36:08
managing in a union environment, it made me a better leader
36:10
because, you know, your hands are tied, You know, you can't
36:13
just do what you want. And it teaches you how to work
36:15
with people. And I think that is a super
36:17
important part of my career that, you know, that that kind
36:21
of sucks when you work at the Super high level because
36:23
everybody is kind of like, you know, they you all want to push
36:25
for greatness, but also that doesn't translate out to the
36:29
real world. Right.
36:29
Yeah. And and if I could interject
36:31
here, that moment for people that don't understand this
36:34
intense conversation in HR with you there.
36:37
And you're just saying how you feel because you come from a
36:40
world where the only important person is the chef, right.
36:43
And the chef's vision. And now you're in a place where
36:46
the chef is an important piece on the chess board amongst a
36:48
bunch of other important pieces. 100%.
36:50
And as soon as you stepped up, they said to the to the chef,
36:54
they said you stay back. You stepped out of the room and
36:57
they said that guy doesn't fucking get it.
36:58
Yeah, right. Yeah.
36:59
Are you gonna or do we need to start?
37:02
Do we need to start presentation?
37:03
Yeah, right. Paper trail.
37:04
Because at that moment the chef is thinking shut the fuck up.
37:08
He's grabbing it by the arm and he's thinking.
37:11
He's thinking to himself, I don't want to have.
37:14
To fire you. Yeah, exactly.
37:16
I need you exactly. And, and I'll also mention this
37:18
like if you are working in a hotel partnership between a chef
37:22
and the in the hotel, OK, it is super important to be a bomb
37:27
liaison between the partnership because a lot of people don't
37:30
understand. And when I worked at Wolfgang
37:31
Puck in at Hotel Bel Air and I was a chef de cuisine and I
37:34
remember Wolfgang saying, hey, why do you have to go to all
37:36
these meetings? And I'm like Chef, you don't.
37:38
Yeah, you need to show face. Chef, you have to like, I mean,
37:41
he's like, yeah, but it's stupid.
37:41
You guys shouldn't be in office. You should be cooking.
37:43
And I'm like, Chef, I hear you and I respect you and I'm trust
37:47
me and I'm with you, but like. But we got to talk about the
37:50
employee rally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like.
37:52
They want to know what's being served in the Swan Cafe at noon.
37:55
Like, you know, And I'm just like, and it was so funny
37:57
because I, and I remember telling myself like, OK, this is
38:00
important. And I, and I'll, I'll stress, I
38:02
can't stress enough, like every experience, you can take
38:05
something from every experience. And you know, depending on what
38:08
type of chef you want to be in, for the young cooks out there,
38:10
what I recommend is like figure out what type of chef you want
38:15
to be as fast as possible. And this will change because
38:17
there's so like a lot of people think they can just put a chef
38:20
jacket on, hop on Instagram and post Tik Toks and now all of a
38:24
sudden they're a chef. Let me tell you something.
38:25
Yeah. Nah, doesn't work.
38:27
Chef means something. OK?
38:29
Chef means leader of the kitchen.
38:30
It, it's not like it's a, it's a specific thing.
38:33
It's like saying you're electric without having the the proper
38:35
documentation, you know what I mean?
38:36
It's like and. And if I could go back to
38:38
something that you said earlier, but I'm gonna defend Thomas.
38:42
I'm gonna defend Thomas Keller for for a minute because I feel
38:44
like I, I left him hanging out there and didn't.
38:46
I didn't defend him because I've done exactly what he's done.
38:49
I know why he does what he does. Yeah.
38:52
Because when you want to work at that and you know this, Yes.
38:54
When you want to work at that three Michelin star level where
38:56
it's a Linea, French Laundry, L2O, whatever.
38:59
Yeah, you need everyone to fucking operate in this system.
39:02
You have to you. Do not deviate from our system.
39:05
1000% and I will be on. Let me go back to defend Thomas
39:08
Keller two. That is my superhero.
39:09
Don't get me wrong. I remember when the under
39:11
pressure book came out, OK, under pressure sous video.
39:14
I read that thing cover to cover.
39:15
I did everything a single recipe in there.
39:17
I got sous video tattooed on my arm.
39:19
Polly Science, you know, shout shouted me out.
39:21
They use they use me in the demo.
39:23
So I will say 100% when that that per SE, the French Laundry
39:26
cookbook changed my life in, you know, in early, late 90s, late
39:30
90s. But I will say, I will say the
39:34
biggest thing that I've learned as a restaurant operator in a,
39:37
you know, in managing restaurants and being a chef to
39:38
cuisine executive sous chef, you know, demographic is everything,
39:42
you know. And so it's, it's just super
39:43
important, like a good example of the, the, you know, the
39:46
techniques and some of the stuff that is taught at the Thomas
39:50
Keller Group and you know, at Bouchon, you know, it doesn't
39:52
translate over to. And that and that's the to.
39:55
To Hamilton, Mt right and and and also it doesn't translate to
39:58
in in like, well, San Francisco maybe, but like, you know,
40:02
there's certain places where you know, you have a demographic
40:06
that's a certain menu market fit where you have to cut cost.
40:09
You like it doesn't need to be a perfect circle.
40:11
Well, and, and I, I, I want to talk about this with you because
40:14
I know you have several restaurants that are very
40:17
successful and in running a successful restaurant is
40:21
difficult. And so using the example of the
40:23
French Laundry or Linear or any of any of these really high end
40:27
3 Michelin star kitchens. When you're a chef at one of
40:30
these places or a cook at one of these places and you leave and
40:32
you say, I want to basically replicate this because I loved
40:35
it. And then you go into a different
40:37
kitchen because they hire you because you have 3 Michelin
40:40
stars on your resume and they make you the chef, but you only
40:43
got 2 cooks. But you still wanna do the food
40:46
like if you had 20 cooks, right? And you still wanna do the food
40:49
like if you had a food cost at this.
40:51
Yeah, right. But then you realize, hey, the
40:53
owner doesn't have that unlimited bank account.
40:57
Yep. And you know what?
40:58
We have to we maybe we don't make it all from scratch. 100.
41:02
Percent and so you know I'll just double down just to give a
41:04
quick summary I moved out to Montana to start a restaurant
41:07
group and I wanted to create what Thomas Keller created in
41:10
Napa Valley back in the late 90s and let me tell you something
41:13
it's not all success right at least try to launch five
41:16
businesses at once three of them failed I'm you know now divorce
41:19
with my partners you know we own the restaurants 100% but like
41:23
the reality is. Is my my and, and I got to give
41:27
props to my brother here because I moved to Montana.
41:29
I was, you know, living in California, You know, there's no
41:31
other better place to. Live.
41:32
California, it's the best, but the reality is all the chefs use
41:36
the same thing. We're all using Brent Wolf
41:37
quails, we're all using abalone, we're all using California
41:40
sturgeon, right. And and working at Saison, I
41:42
knew where all the good stuff was.
41:44
So like, yes, I could have had the opportunity to open a
41:46
restaurant in Palo Alto and I almost did it was close, but I
41:48
also know that all money is not good money.
41:51
Tech money is is very like they don't care about you.
41:53
And the reality is, is I wanted to, why do you say that?
41:56
Well, tech investors, and this is not everybody, tech
41:59
investors, private equity, you know, restaurants are more of a
42:02
business meeting. Say I own this.
42:05
It's not like, and that's why I, you know, when I say all money
42:09
is not good money when you're talking to, let's say the
42:12
principal about of the tech group or whatever it is.
42:15
And they're like, yeah, hey, chef, whenever you open a
42:16
restaurant, it's great, blah, blah, blah.
42:18
But then you have to deal with his finance team, right?
42:21
Who don't look and you have to deal with their accounting.
42:23
And it's like, well, how much money do you need?
42:24
OK, well I need 2 million to open this restaurant, you know
42:26
well he owns the space so how much we need for the kitchen
42:28
renovation and then they start picking apart, but none of them
42:31
do restaurants. Then they they're just looking
42:34
how fast can I get my money back, which is arguably that's
42:36
how tech they. Are right, Yeah.
42:38
And it's like, and, and, but The thing is, is like in in
42:42
California, especially in, especially in Silicon Valley and
42:45
Bay Area, you know, all the chefs that have tasting menus
42:47
guaranteed there's like nobody's doing anything new.
42:49
And so for me not to say that the restaurants aren't good, but
42:52
what I will say is I wanted to go to a place that was
42:54
undiscovered. There was nobody on no chef
42:56
representing. And when I went to Montana, it
42:58
was like, I mean, there's it's sticks, bro, like boonies out
43:02
there. But I came out too ambitious
43:04
when we opened Ember, right? And I sent him my menu.
43:08
He look, he analyzed his menu all the time.
43:10
He he called me, he called me straight away.
43:11
He's like, it's, it's too ego driven, like you're crazy.
43:14
This is. Like this is like pear and
43:16
freaking goat cheese and frizzee salad.
43:18
Like all kinds of What was it? No, no, no, no.
43:19
I had. It was like it was just too chef
43:22
to. California.
43:22
It was too California for Montana.
43:24
Yeah, and so, and it's funny because if you look at my menu
43:27
now like and I don't care what anybody says cuz now that I own
43:31
my own restaurants, I got middle fingers up to anybody that wants
43:34
to give me advice about owning like.
43:36
Here's something I say, Yeah, and I think you'll appreciate
43:39
this. Everyone always says run it like
43:41
you own it. It makes a lot more sense when
43:42
you own it. Yes, right.
43:44
When they say run it like you own it, as soon as you own it,
43:46
you realize. Oh, that's that's what they
43:47
meant. Yeah, 100%.
43:49
And it's like, you know, as a chef, I never, ever like a good
43:52
example and I'll just use Grano Grano's, my Italian restaurant,
43:54
Italian American is what I call. It's not authentic.
43:56
OK, please. But you know, like.
43:58
You got chicken off right? On them, yeah, bro, yes, yes.
44:00
Chicken off I do pays the bills. Listen, listen, I'll tell them.
44:03
Man, I was like. I'll be honest, like I remember
44:05
I came out and like you're like, it is so funny, man.
44:07
I got this winter Salvia Radicio and Treviso like in like, you
44:10
know, the pizzas Neapolitan style, like so it's like, you
44:12
know, it's a three day firm man. And I'm using, you know, Caputo
44:14
flower imported from Italy. That's the the highest one.
44:17
It's the supernova, which is the best.
44:19
But it's, it's it's funny because like in that
44:21
demographic, you know, you can't make the same pizza that you
44:24
would make in Seattle, WA or San Francisco that you would make in
44:27
Hamilton, Mt. And for me, that was my non
44:29
negotiable right. Like I was like, no, this is the
44:31
pizza I love. I love Neapolitan style.
44:33
I love wood fired pizza. And I'm just going to educate.
44:35
Oppose. Did you give them scissors like
44:36
you could only cut it? With we we would cut it.
44:39
We would cut it table size because we we cut it with
44:41
scissors tableside when we first started.
44:42
Now we. Cut it.
44:43
What the fuck is they're? Like what's going on?
44:45
Yeah. Bullshit.
44:46
Well, because in their mind, they know Pizza Hut, Domino's,
44:49
Yeah, and the breweries. And The thing is, is it's not
44:52
their fault. They don't know what artisan
44:53
pizza is. They might, but all the
44:54
tourists? Do they they have no frame of?
44:56
Reference and and and that's fine.
44:57
And that's where as a chef you have to say, OK, where's the
45:01
middle ground? Where can I feel like a great
45:03
chef, but also I need to make money or else we don't have a
45:06
restaurant. And I think that's the the sad
45:08
truth. Good example, truffle fries,
45:10
right? Listen.
45:12
I hate truffle lol. I don't care if selling truffle
45:14
fries. Listen, I don't care what
45:15
anybody says when I'm looking at this menu mix and I have a great
45:19
truffle fry recipe. I actually make a truffle
45:21
vinaigrette. Hit them up.
45:22
I get the extra crispy French fries that are battered, you
45:24
know, but like, it's funny because it cost me 0 labor, you
45:29
know, it's, it's it's. It's it's crack for the clubs.
45:32
Listen. It's I make a truffle
45:34
vinaigrette. I'm putting truffle oil all in.
45:36
Straight out and and this is going to be funny for you
45:38
because you guys are chefs, but I have three potato sides on my
45:41
menu at Ember right now, three sides of potatoes.
45:44
I have the 24 hour potato, which is one of our signature dishes,
45:46
right? It's a great dish.
45:48
I've learned how to speed up the prep so it's not so labor
45:50
intensive, but it's one of our signatures.
45:52
Then I have mashed potatoes and I also have truffle fries, and
45:56
they all equally sell and listen.
45:58
I feel terrible because sometimes I'm like, you know,
46:01
but this is what sound like I don't waste any more time with
46:04
dogs on the menu, you know, because it's not worth it.
46:06
It's not worth holding on to the inventory.
46:08
It's not worth it. Let let me ask you both this
46:10
question just for the audience listening.
46:12
You said something I was like, you know, sometimes, sometimes
46:14
we're too inside baseball on the show.
46:17
And because we have a range of entry level cooks and, yeah,
46:20
owners listening for the person who's never heard the
46:23
expression. Dogs on the menu.
46:25
Oh, yeah. Can you break that down?
46:27
What are you looking for? Yeah.
46:28
Like how and when we're talking menu engineering.
46:31
Yeah. Can you can you break down a dog
46:32
on the menu? Can.
46:33
I can I Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, sorry.
46:34
Lee Maiman, he's hyped. Up, man, I'm like.
46:37
You had that, you had that Celsius.
46:38
So you know, so you know, like my, my job as a chef is not just
46:42
drive really good dishes on the menu, but look at the menu mix
46:44
and we categorize them. You know, what sells really good
46:48
and has a high profitability is what you want at least 50% of
46:52
your menu. You know that roasted chicken
46:53
dish, OK, cost you $4.00 to put on the plate, but you're selling
46:57
it for 2627. You know it's garnished up
47:00
nicely. Then you want to have some of
47:01
your loss leaders, right? Like that are you know, people
47:04
come for it. You know, whether it's like we
47:06
do this honey roll dish. It's a, it's a, a mash up
47:08
between a Hawaiian style roll with a Parker House roll.
47:12
And we do it at our steakhouse concepts.
47:14
We, we sell it for 8 bucks. We can easily get 15 for it,
47:17
right? But it's the reason why people
47:19
come to the restaurant, right? Then you have the dogs on your
47:22
menu that don't serve a purpose. High cost, lots of prep.
47:25
For example, we put tater tots on the menu.
47:27
I wanted to do them fancy. It's a steakhouse, so we do
47:29
tater tot Creme fresh caviar. They are a bitch to prep.
47:34
OK. Each one is hand molded.
47:36
After you roast the potato, you shred it down, you cook duck fat
47:39
with shallots, you make your mix and then each one is hand formed
47:43
into a ring mold. OK.
47:45
And then each one is breaded just on each side.
47:47
So it literally takes 6 hours to prep a full batch.
47:50
Craziness, right? People look at it, they're like,
47:52
I'm paying $18.00 for tater tots.
47:54
It's a dog, OK? It's not doing anything on your
47:56
me, actually, it's pissing people off, right?
47:58
And that's what. And it's and it's and it's a low
48:00
it's, it's ruining the cook that has to fucking work on it for
48:03
six hours and say, damn it, we could.
48:05
Yeah, I'm making these. We don't even sell them.
48:07
I'm throwing them away again. Exactly.
48:09
And so, you know, it's, it's, it's, I always say like, it's
48:12
the, it's a fried calamari effect, right.
48:14
I, I went through my career, I was like, I'm never putting
48:16
fried calamari in the menu because I worked at, you know, I
48:19
worked at Carrabba's for a day, you know, as like a stage
48:21
because they were paying a lot of money.
48:22
This is one of our first jobs. Was that like Macaroni Grill,
48:25
you know, like, and I went to Carrabba's, they were paying
48:27
$4.00 more per hour. And I know why.
48:29
Because nobody wanted to work the damn calamari station.
48:32
They had a calamari fryer. I fried calamari's for 8 hours
48:35
straight. I hated it, you know, hated it.
48:37
And so I said to myself, like, I'm never putting calamari on
48:39
the menu, right? But again, this is a low cost,
48:43
high profit item, you know, and that's what makes or break a it
48:46
makes or breaks a business. I mean muscles is a perfect
48:48
example. Muscles, Yeah, another great
48:50
example. Yeah.
48:51
You know, when I was in the Hamptons in New York, 2014, we
48:54
would buy £50, you know, 50 to, we would go through, you know,
48:59
I'm sorry, not 52150 to 500 lbs of muscles every weekend.
49:03
And I mean, we, I hate, I never wanted to eat muscles, you know,
49:08
I just, I hate them. I've seen them so much.
49:10
Same thing with oysters, you know, but it's one of those
49:12
things that people love and they'll pay whatever.
49:14
They don't care how much they're paying for an oyster, you know,
49:16
because they know that they can't go to the grocery store
49:18
and get the same quality. 100% yeah.
49:20
And I think, and, and this is where and I'll go back to
49:21
culinary school and I want, I just want to talk about this
49:23
because what they're teaching in culinary schools nowadays is not
49:27
relevant to running a restaurant or being in a restaurant now.
49:30
Like there, so many things have changed after COVID, like not
49:33
only the cost of goods, but the way the AI is taking over the
49:36
restaurant industry. If you're not using AI in your
49:38
restaurant right now, you're behind the times.
49:39
Yeah, give me an example because I I haven't been in a restaurant
49:42
in a while. Yeah, So here's here's a great
49:43
example answering the phones. Yeah, we, we nobody has time to
49:48
answer phones. You remember you would have a
49:49
Hostess scheduled there because labor was labor was lower.
49:52
But unless you're in a hotel, we don't have a Hostess, right.
49:54
Like I'm not scheduling a Hostess.
49:56
Yeah, not, but not till 30 minutes before we open. 100%
49:58
yeah, you're cutting them. Early too.
50:00
So now all these restaurants are using, they're defaulting to
50:02
slang, AI or whatever, whatever the AI voice in, and it's pretty
50:06
close to human. Like.
50:08
It's so close also with accounting AI with accounting,
50:11
right? I have, you know, I have a
50:13
system that tells me what's fluctuating in price and you
50:15
know, the AI will, you know, source.
50:18
Can you tell us what system it is?
50:19
You know. They're not paying us, but they
50:22
should. Yeah, the, the, the system that
50:24
we, I used to use was Plate IQ and they, they merged with
50:27
another company and I forgot what it was, but it was like,
50:30
it's like, you know, on the back end what they do is they'll give
50:33
you a graph of like what prices have fluctuated.
50:35
But then this is the thing, they source it on the web of where
50:38
what it should be to make sure that your purveyor is not.
50:41
You're keeping them honest. Yes, and and here's the thing
50:44
with web restaurant, like, I hate to say it, but it's
50:47
becoming Amazon, you know, it's becoming, it's becoming a
50:50
conglomerate. And I love it because, you know,
50:53
The thing is, yeah, the thing. And then also I'll say Chachi
50:56
BT. You know, I freaking love Chachi
50:59
BT and I go deep. No, not yet.
51:01
But I also want to try perplexity as well.
51:03
But like The thing is, it's like now when I do catering, I can
51:07
dial in recipes by using Baker percentage and I used like and
51:11
it's like OK, like good example. I had AI had a party with BBQ
51:14
pork and brisket and I'm like, OK, I want to account for this
51:17
and I'm talking to chat and it's giving me scaled recipes from my
51:20
recipe book, right? Because it's really hard to
51:22
take. It's really hard to take BBQ
51:23
sauce and then account for four oz per portion.
51:27
You know what I mean? And then do the ordering.
51:28
You could do the math, but it's not always, but it's a lot
51:30
easier. You waste a lot less time in the
51:33
kitchen on the computer. Yeah, I'll tell you what I did
51:36
for people listening is I, I, for people that have been
51:39
listening to the show, they know I love AI.
51:40
Yeah, I've been talking about AI since day one yeah like I think
51:44
I wrote literally the first AI cookbook ever.
51:46
Nice, Cuz I as soon as it came out I wrote it like 3 days
51:49
later. Nice when ChatGPT came out in
51:51
November 2292 or whatever. But so I started using clod the
51:54
other day because you know all over social media like clod
51:57
clock. What is this?
51:58
So I got on Clod and I've had it for about a week and I pay for
52:01
the, you know, the, the pro version.
52:04
And while I'm here, Claude is working on my computer updating
52:09
SEO for my website on every podcast.
52:12
Stop. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
52:14
But I'm just here like I said, do this.
52:17
Yeah. And I said, can you give me
52:18
access to to the backup? Sure.
52:20
So I connected it and then it says do you like it in this
52:23
style? Yep, Yep.
52:24
Great. I'll be back in a few hours and
52:26
you'll it'll, I'll. Have now it's doing it.
52:27
And it's just working on my website.
52:29
Yeah, and that's the thing, it speeds up workflow like crazy.
52:31
Yeah. And what I'm saying taking
52:32
taking those mundane tasks off your plate so you can focus some
52:35
of the things. Let me I'll tell you, I got one
52:37
up on both of y'all ChatGPT calls me chef.
52:39
OK, that's how much I. Use it because.
52:42
Like for example, if I do I in in kitchens, my recipes don't
52:46
have instructions. If you don't know how to make a
52:47
vinaigrette properly, you shouldn't be working in the
52:49
kitchen. But guess what?
52:50
Just like you were talking about Thomas Keller, If you don't have
52:52
a system and you don't breakdown, I've learned the hard
52:54
way by not breaking down steps to recipes to the T.
52:58
This is exactly the measurement. I only use grams because you can
53:01
do you. Do percentages too.
53:02
A percent? Absolutely.
53:03
With, you know, baking and pastry.
53:04
Baking and pastry, you use percentages.
53:06
Sauces, vinaigrettes, like percentages are the way to go.
53:10
Listen, ratios will set you free.
53:11
Was it Alex TUPE? Alex I love it he ratios.
53:13
And listen, Alex TUPE, he's one of my superheroes too, because
53:16
he doesn't know this, but I wanted to.
53:17
I wanted to. And I can't find it, but I found
53:20
one of his recipe books, Adelinea on the pastry station
53:23
in the bottom underneath where the Spoonbane is.
53:26
And and I can't find it anywhere.
53:28
And I'm so frustrated because like, dude, I was reading.
53:30
I was like in all these. Yeah, Oh yeah.
53:32
Oh yeah, 100. Percent yeah, it's mine.
53:34
Yeah. But it was like and it was all
53:36
worn down and it but it said Alex Stupeck on the on the on
53:38
the front. And so that's when I learned
53:40
about Alex Stupeck like and I just went down.
53:42
I mean, he is such a like and people don't know Alex Stupeck
53:46
was the like I would say the one of the O GS along with Jordan
53:49
Khan Adelinea as a pastry chef, right?
53:52
And you know, I think he changed the game as far like I think
53:55
everybody hydrochlorides. Yeah, and and the flexible
53:57
chocolate. I took that recipe.
53:59
I got the OG recipe but like I've used that many of times and
54:02
I just have to say mad respect to.
54:03
And he's funny as shit. Yeah, it's.
54:05
Hilarious, yeah. He's funny as shit.
54:07
For people that don't know, right now, both of you are on
54:09
Top Chef. Yeah, against each other.
54:11
And by the way, obviously we're not gonna spoil it for anybody,
54:15
but I'll tell you what I would do if I was the if I was running
54:18
Top Chef and Top Chef. If you're listening, call me.
54:20
I'll tell you exactly. Like I know what the people
54:22
want. Yeah, this is the finale.
54:24
If I'm running Top Chef, I'm setting it up.
54:26
So you guys are battling right at the finale.
54:28
I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen, but that's what
54:30
I'm doing. We can all speculate, right?
54:31
We can. Speculate, that's what.
54:32
That's for sure. I'm gonna write, and if that's
54:34
not the case, you rest assured they will be hearing from me.
54:36
Yeah, that's funny. That's awesome.
54:38
No. And you know, the listen, my
54:41
only competitor that I was worried about, that I am worried
54:44
about is Brandon. Because he knows me in and out,
54:47
and I know him in. And out he knows me like there's
54:49
no like there's no other person that knows each other better
54:53
than us. How do you get in his head
54:54
during during the during? I guess you can't.
54:57
Talk to that, right. You know, we we can talk a
54:59
little bit about it. Like I, we are both competitive
55:01
in different ways, right? Yeah.
55:03
Like my I know that if we had a pastry challenge.
55:07
He's cooking. Fucking me up, man.
55:09
There is nothing because like I went for my bachelor's, he went
55:12
for a pastry and double associates and I made, I blasted
55:15
him for years. I'm like, dude, you're never
55:17
going to do that. Every time I needed help on a
55:19
pastry recipe, I'd call him like, hey man, can you just
55:22
review? Especially when I learned
55:23
sourdough. Once I learned sourdough like it
55:24
was getting, I went down the rabbit hole.
55:26
Yeah, there was a like if, if we have a sourdough competition or
55:30
bread baking or any pastry related.
55:32
Cooked. I'm cooked, you know?
55:34
I'm like, there's only, and there's only one way to fight to
55:38
the death. Because at the end of the day,
55:39
man, like everything you see is real on Top Chef.
55:42
It's not, it's not scripted. They, you know, they, they, they
55:46
don't tell you anything on purpose.
55:48
It's real live emotions. Yeah.
55:50
And you were put into pressure situations that, you know, it's
55:53
sink or swim. It's raw talent.
55:54
Yeah. The.
55:55
Top show's been around for, I mean, quite some time and I feel
55:57
like there's still. We're on Season 23.
55:59
There's there's, there's still kind of the gold standard
56:02
culinary competition. Yeah, for now.
56:04
For now. For now, there's gonna actually.
56:08
Hey. I saw, listen, I was watching.
56:10
Yeah, shots fired. It's it's funny, like I, you
56:13
know, we, I don't watch cooking shows, you know, and, and, and
56:16
the reason why, like, you know, everybody asks me, Oh, did you
56:18
see the bear? Oh, did you see this?
56:19
You know this? Yes, chef, did you see the
56:21
tournament of the chat? I'm like, I don't watch these
56:23
because it's too stressful for me.
56:24
You know, I, I deal with it all day.
56:26
I'm putting on fires all day, you know, and so, you know,
56:30
going into competing against my brother there was like I knew.
56:35
So basically you you can memorize recipes, but you can't
56:38
write anything down, which is to to even the playing field out
56:41
Yeah, which is fair. The only only recipe I memorize
56:45
pastry recipes. That's it Just you know, on
56:47
case, right? Yeah, I can cook because when I
56:49
do, when I R&D, when I R&D recipes, I'm R&D ING and I'm
56:53
going through the process and I'm writing things down.
56:54
I'm never I'm never like, oh, let me go to marthastewart.com
56:57
and get this volute recipe and then follow this recipe and make
57:00
tweaks to it. Right, right.
57:01
I'm I'm freestyle. I'm like, how does this feel?
57:03
How does this taste? How does this look?
57:04
You know, and then so I so I'm very good in that environment.
57:07
And also, I've been on, you know, I've been on Chops, I've
57:09
been on Bobby Flay, so I know. That he's he likes the.
57:12
TV See, I was the opposite, yeah.
57:14
He never wanted to be on TV, you know, and I, and I like my first
57:16
debut was when I was like 22 years old, I was on Gary across
57:20
the Caribbean, which is Gary Rose is a a celebrity chef in
57:23
the UK and that was my first exposure to like national TV in
57:27
the UK and you know, like the big production and all this
57:30
other stuff. And we're on a Caribbean island.
57:32
They flew me off dude. He.
57:32
He like begged me to come on Bobby, Bobby Flay.
57:34
I'm like, dude, I'm just not interested, man.
57:36
Like I don't want to do it. I don't want to make a club
57:37
sandwich. But it's funny because like now
57:39
that I own my own businesses, I have my own brand, it's
57:41
different. Exposures, exposures,
57:43
everything. Like, I don't care what anybody
57:46
says. And I I do blame myself.
57:49
But Brandon tried to get me on the social trend for so long.
57:52
And I thought I was so dumb. I was like, I'm not.
57:54
I ain't got time. I'm, I'm a real chef.
57:56
Like, I have a real job. You know?
57:57
I don't have time to, like, post a cooking video about how to
58:00
make a mango sorbet. Like, I got to teach my staff
58:02
how to do these things. Yeah, but now you know that.
58:05
I see. He bullied them, he I bullied
58:07
them into it. And not only that, but like,
58:08
because everybody thinks that I'm him.
58:11
Like, they're like, oh, I watched the B Bobby Flay
58:14
episode. They'll blow up his comment
58:15
section. I just saw you on Food Network
58:17
Canada, yada. But seeing people know him more
58:20
than they know me, Yeah. When, Like, even.
58:22
And you were the one that was doing all the TV.
58:23
'S exactly, but they see him on TikTok, they see him on
58:26
Instagram. They ask me, Hey, aren't you the
58:28
like I'm, I'm random random food hall in Philadelphia and this
58:32
I'm, I'm ordering, you know, a Taco from this, this food truck
58:35
and this guy's staring at me and I'm like, are.
58:37
You good bro? He's OK.
58:38
He's like, do you own Ember? Are you, are you?
58:41
Do you live in Montana? And I'm like, no, actually,
58:42
that's my twin brother, you know, and a FaceTime Brian,
58:45
like, look for twins. And it's cool interaction, but
58:47
this is a young kid who is probably his first or second
58:49
job. Yeah.
58:50
Well, and I'll say this, it's super important if you're a chef
58:54
out there, if you're a young cook, start creating content.
58:56
You see, whether you like it or not, you.
58:57
Probably have enough in your phone.
58:59
Already. Yeah, exactly just.
59:00
And The thing is, is now it's start.
59:03
Good example. I'm going to use Ryder, for
59:04
example. Ryder, you know, when, when we
59:06
first, so when we first opened Ember, I knew I wanted a
59:08
mediographer and I wanted editing and we like we would
59:10
document the process. And I'm like, social media is so
59:12
important. You know how hard it is to put
59:14
that in the pro forma. Pro forma is like a a business
59:16
plan for people that don't know. But like we're in the budget.
59:18
Yeah, but it's like I had to sacrifice an hourly and a sous
59:21
chef for that body, right? But it was so important because
59:24
we grew in the first six months, we grew Ember to over, you know,
59:27
200,000 followers on Instagram and we were pumping via social
59:31
media. And like the, the reality is, is
59:33
it's so important nowadays. And now it's super important
59:36
that you have that. Because what I realized in 2020,
59:39
when I started, when I, when I, when COVID hit, I had zero, I
59:42
had nothing, no social problem, nothing.
59:44
And, and, and, and so for me it was like, OK, so like if the
59:48
whole world were to shut down, I don't have anything.
59:49
I have nothing. And so that's when that's when
59:52
chef authorized was born, right? And I was doing duets and I, you
59:54
know, and I was like, you know, just on TikTok and like, you
59:57
know, the, the, the biggest thing for me was like, I almost
1:00:00
gave up. I was like, this is stupid.
1:00:01
I can't believe it. Like what am I doing?
1:00:02
And also I was dogging him on the side.
1:00:03
I'm like bro they no way pay attention to your 30 view video
1:00:06
like all the time it takes you to do that and set it up and
1:00:09
then. How do you handle the trolls?
1:00:11
That's a that's a goal. Yeah.
1:00:12
So, you know, that's a great question.
1:00:13
And honestly, now it's you get to a certain point where you
1:00:16
have a threshold and it's like, listen, I don't know this guy,
1:00:19
they don't know me. But like, thank you for with the
1:00:21
comment because it, it adds to the algorithm.
1:00:22
But also like before, I used to take the comments really
1:00:25
personally, you know, but now it's like it's dirt over the
1:00:27
show. You ain't paying my bills,
1:00:28
motherfucker. You know what I mean?
1:00:29
Like you have 0 input in my life.
1:00:31
But I will say that it's super important.
1:00:34
You need to if you're if you don't have any haters, you ain't
1:00:36
working hard. Enough you won't you won't get
1:00:38
the explosion, but or the virality.
1:00:39
But it's funny because I actually just had AI had a video
1:00:41
that surpassed a million. Yeah and I had never, you know,
1:00:44
because I told him I was like, hey, I got 50,000 views.
1:00:47
I went viral. He's like, bro, you ain't go
1:00:49
viral unless you get at least a half a million.
1:00:50
And I'm so that was I strive for that.
1:00:52
But finally I broke it and it was a tomahawk.
1:00:55
Well done. But it's all about how the voice
1:00:57
over, it's all about the hook. So I'm like, hey, I never
1:00:59
thought of my career that I would cook a tomahawk.
1:01:02
Well done. It's a 40 oz piece of meat.
1:01:05
Early in my career, I would have said no.
1:01:07
I would have said no. Order the chicken.
1:01:08
Order the salmon. But I'm not, I'm not cooking for
1:01:11
my ego. I'm cooking for the guests, what
1:01:13
I want to say, what I want, you know, let me circle back because
1:01:15
for the young cook and the young, young like chef, like
1:01:18
before, when I was working in the kitchen, cell phones were
1:01:19
not accepted. You cannot and you still have to
1:01:22
be discreet. Like you have to ask permission
1:01:24
because there's a certain time and place.
1:01:25
But I will say shout out to Ryder Mansky.
1:01:28
He, you know, he started with me, but a lot of people don't
1:01:29
know this, but like Ryder started with me back back in the
1:01:32
day, like. What's his Instagram?
1:01:33
Handle it's I forgot but it's it should be Manski.
1:01:37
I think it's R Mansky or something.
1:01:38
Like that, he does a great job. Yeah, yeah.
1:01:40
But The thing is, is when he first started with me, I posted
1:01:42
on TikTok and I said, hey, I'm looking for some cooks.
1:01:44
He started with with me when we had the burger restaurants.
1:01:47
So he had been working with me for 2 1/2 years before he
1:01:50
started posting on IG. But I forced him to do it,
1:01:53
right? I'm like, listen, the
1:01:54
videographer's here. Like you want to be on social
1:01:56
media, you need to start posting.
1:01:58
And I'm like, if you would have been posting two years ago, you
1:02:01
know, we would have, you'd be viral right now.
1:02:02
But now it's like, so he's just started posting.
1:02:04
We started putting him on the ember page and like he has his
1:02:07
own social media presence now. And I think that's so important
1:02:10
for the young cooks and the young chefs, like you can't just
1:02:13
put all your eggs in one basket. Like you have got to create a
1:02:17
personal brand for yourself if that's what you if, if social
1:02:19
media is what you want to do. But it doesn't happen overnight.
1:02:21
It takes years and building a community in today's.
1:02:23
World, it's all brand. Yeah, it's all brand.
1:02:26
And I I know that as Chef's PSA. Like there's a reason it's
1:02:29
called Chef's PSA and not Andre's podcast. 100%, yeah.
1:02:32
And, and and that's the most important thing.
1:02:34
And I will say this, and I don't, you know, if you have a
1:02:38
social media presence as a chef and you go to a new restaurant
1:02:40
and you can drive revenue and put butts in seats, it will
1:02:43
change the ownership perspective, right?
1:02:45
And so I think like Ember would not be what it is right now if I
1:02:49
didn't have a social media presence.
1:02:50
Like people come in, they look at it like ATV set, right?
1:02:52
I'm like, Hey, this is where we film, blah, blah, blah.
1:02:54
But it's, it's funny, 'cause I'm a little bit more animated when
1:02:56
I'm posting on social because you have to be right?
1:02:58
Like you have to like I put on a character, right?
1:02:59
It's like, OK, hey, look at the, you know, like and, you know,
1:03:02
it's just. You know one of those, it's
1:03:04
going to get him to stop. Yeah, stop the scroll, yeah.
1:03:07
And you know, it's, it's funny because a lot of people don't
1:03:09
know this, but this is insider information.
1:03:11
When we built the kitchen at Ember, I had the lights set up
1:03:14
like studio lights. That's why it's super bright.
1:03:16
I could be filming in there at 12:00 at night or 4:00 in the
1:03:19
morning. It doesn't matter.
1:03:20
It's always the same set. And I think the biggest thing
1:03:23
for me, when I was learning about videography and editing
1:03:25
and all that, like I thought like when I was in California, I
1:03:27
thought, OK, so the sun's not up, so I'm not going to film
1:03:29
today. Like, dude, that was so stupid.
1:03:30
But if you are, don't feel comfortable with editing videos.
1:03:34
If you don't feel comfortable with shooting videos.
1:03:36
Get it on a line item on the PNL.
1:03:38
Trust me, it's important. Put it on the PNL.
1:03:40
Yeah, I would, I would say that I would argue that social is
1:03:43
used more as a search engine these days than it was before.
1:03:46
Yeah. So, you know, and this is
1:03:47
another hot take that I wouldn't say, like as a chef, you know,
1:03:50
seeing these, the viral content of some of these dishes drives
1:03:54
me fucking crazy. You know, 'cause I'm like, I bet
1:03:56
you that tastes like dog shit, you know, for example, oh, this
1:03:58
is how you cook a steak. Like, and I see, I see these
1:04:01
home cooks like, listen, nothing against home cooks.
1:04:03
Do your thing but. You.
1:04:05
You know, you're cooking, pretending that you're a chef,
1:04:07
dude. It irks.
1:04:08
You're talking about talk about haters.
1:04:09
Like I want to be haters up in their comments because I'm like,
1:04:11
you didn't season that steak. You didn't see, like, how many
1:04:13
people cooked. Yeah, but let's let's be honest.
1:04:15
I'm not wearing a chef coat in my kitchen at my house.
1:04:16
No, no, no. Who's?
1:04:17
Your favorite creator? My favorite creator?
1:04:19
Yeah. Who do you like to watch?
1:04:20
I love, I love straight up Joshua Wiseman is one of my he's
1:04:24
cool people, man. And like, honestly, I I his
1:04:26
cookbook is legit another favorite creative.
1:04:29
I love Max the meat guy. I love Guga.
1:04:31
They're all my friends. Matt Gork, Gork BBQ.
1:04:35
I love all the BBQ guys. So Kendrick four O 6 TFTI, you
1:04:41
know all we kind of like, you know I don't.
1:04:43
Say we is there one that you like?
1:04:45
Maybe is an acquired taste that you're like, I really like this
1:04:48
one, a lot of people might. I really like this. 1 my good
1:04:52
friend Albert Kane cook and he's, but he's smart.
1:04:55
Like we started together. We have a we have a collab that
1:04:58
we did back in like 2022 or 2021, but he just blew up.
1:05:03
But like he does skits now, but like the food that he was doing,
1:05:06
like, and he was right. He's like, I'm not, I'm doing
1:05:08
food for the gram. I'm not doing like you're
1:05:10
wasting time doing Michelin level stuff.
1:05:12
And he was right. He was 100% right.
1:05:13
And like, and I'm going to say this and his video editing was
1:05:16
fantastic. Yeah, and I'm going to say this
1:05:17
too. Like I got a video on
1:05:18
Quinnelling or Rocher or whatever you want to call it,
1:05:20
but you know, I know it's not going to do well, but it's it,
1:05:22
it hits that chef community and that's kind of what I want, that
1:05:25
base. I don't charge my people
1:05:27
anything, you know what I mean? Like I just want to build the
1:05:29
community. Like it's super important for me
1:05:31
to do things like that, like chefy videos, because I think
1:05:33
it's OK to post on social media. And I think as a chef, you got
1:05:36
to put your feelings aside, your ego aside, and just start
1:05:39
posting, documenting the process.
1:05:41
And I will say the food, the stupid food does better than the
1:05:45
Michelin food. 1000% here's something and, and I'm I'm I'm
1:05:48
going to put a pin in that 'cause I want to hear what you
1:05:49
have to say 'cause I also want to ask you, you're creator, but
1:05:51
I'm going to share this with you 'cause I think the audience
1:05:53
would appreciate it. I have a friend that books guest
1:05:57
chef dinners. That's their job.
1:05:58
They book guest chef dinners from Michelin to James Beard to
1:06:04
award-winning chefs, chefs on TV and also books content creators
1:06:09
as well cookbook authors who are millions of followers on social
1:06:13
media. Yeah, the award-winning chef.
1:06:16
A lot of times they have to give away tickets because they can't
1:06:18
fill a room. The content creator sells out in
1:06:21
minutes. Yes, see a. 100% and it doesn't
1:06:23
even matter at that point what the menu is.
1:06:25
Right. And it and it's not like they're
1:06:26
doing like like crazy burger or whatever.
1:06:28
Yeah, and, and look, and here's a great example of that, like
1:06:31
Salt Hank, right? He is a content creator out of
1:06:33
the Bay Area. I knew him a long time ago.
1:06:35
And I said he was opening a restaurant.
1:06:36
Like, hey, if you need any help with anything, you just let me
1:06:38
know. But I will say this, he fucking
1:06:41
nailed it. His restaurant is packed.
1:06:43
OK, line out the door, He serves one item, and he has a chef in
1:06:47
there. But I'm gonna tell you right
1:06:49
now, like, you know, this is all the chefs that have put in all
1:06:52
this work. This is what you're up against.
1:06:55
One of my favorite creators right now and I'm, I'm curious
1:06:57
to know yours and I wish I knew her name, but she's just fucking
1:07:00
trolling everyone. Like today I'm gonna show you
1:07:02
how to fucking make something that I'm gonna eat it out of my
1:07:04
shoe. I never seen her.
1:07:06
Oh, she's great. And so like today I'm making a
1:07:08
tiramisu and I'm serving it out of a a fucking claw machine.
1:07:12
Yeah, but, you know, this is you have to be entertaining.
1:07:15
And I learned. I learned the hard.
1:07:17
I learned the hard way and like, you know, like there's like, and
1:07:21
you're 100% right, that guy's 100% right.
1:07:23
You can have a creator come and you know, they have millions of
1:07:25
followers or whatever. And like they'll, they'll book a
1:07:27
dinner, they'll sell out. And also these cookbooks, like
1:07:30
they can put up a cookbook just like that.
1:07:31
And guess what? Like you can buy it?
1:07:33
You could have a decorated resume and you know, a good
1:07:35
example is with the brand deals. You know, like with the brand
1:07:38
deals, I like I'm, I'm going to be honest, like there is another
1:07:40
chef out there. We both have Don partnerships,
1:07:43
but you know, they like, they're too chefy.
1:07:45
Here, here's my message to chefs that are listening right now.
1:07:48
If you want those content creators to stop fucking taking
1:07:51
your lunch, Bunny, put out content.
1:07:52
Yeah, shut the fuck up and put out.
1:07:54
Just do it. Yeah, Yeah, because if not,
1:07:55
they're going to keep taking your lunch.
1:07:57
Bunny 100% he. Told me that from the beginning.
1:07:59
He's like just shut up and post. Just shut up and post.
1:08:01
And that's kind of like, you know, my, my, I'll spend a whole
1:08:04
day filming a recipe. I'm like a crab cake, right?
1:08:08
But the crab cake has a remoulade.
1:08:09
It has a slaw. You know, you're making the crab
1:08:11
cake from from scratch. You're making the aioli from
1:08:13
scratch. OK 14 sub recipes right 100
1:08:18
views nobody cares I post a video on how to demo a pineapple
1:08:23
OK 50K right how to how to Juliana pepper yeah 3040 K You
1:08:27
know it's because your your content it's all about who's
1:08:30
consuming the content and the. Target as as in again using
1:08:34
inside baseball terms, sometimes low IQ does better than high A.
1:08:37
100%, yeah, yeah. Yeah, is there a creator that
1:08:42
you'd like to watch? I don't know, you know, to be
1:08:45
honest, I don't. There's nobody that pops right
1:08:47
off my mind. Is there is there one that
1:08:48
you're sharing often like oh, this is this is funny or do I
1:08:51
share with? I only share ones that I think
1:08:53
are good with with you. Yeah, I and it's and you know,
1:08:55
I, I don't get trapped in the consuming content.
1:08:58
I look at the trends, but also like I will say, there are some
1:09:01
creators out there that are there.
1:09:02
This is their full time job and they are way ahead of the game,
1:09:06
right? Like if anybody want to do a
1:09:07
chef podcast right now, they're going to have to, they're going
1:09:09
to have to fucking put in so much work, you know, and.
1:09:12
This is episode like 190, yeah. Good.
1:09:14
Luck I do for cooking. I do like Sad Poppy.
1:09:16
He just changed his life. Sad Poppy.
1:09:17
Yeah, I do like his cooking because his like and like Matt,
1:09:21
the line cook. What's his name?
1:09:22
Line cook. Matt.
1:09:24
Matt just the line cook or something like that.
1:09:25
I don't know. But shout out to Matt.
1:09:27
Just shout out to Matt. Yeah.
1:09:28
So hey. So this is important when you do
1:09:30
have a social media handle, make sure it is something that people
1:09:34
remember and it's same across all platforms.
1:09:37
Yeah, This is why it's Chef's PSA.
1:09:39
Yeah, fucking easy to remember. Yeah.
1:09:41
Public service announcement. Yeah, 100%, yeah.
1:09:43
Trademark, by the way, if anyone's thinking of stealing.
1:09:45
Yeah. OK, so before we wrap up.
1:09:47
What did you put a pin in earlier?
1:09:48
I forgot that. About The Who your favorite?
1:09:51
Contact guy was yeah. I normally do wrap up questions,
1:09:56
but I'm gonna ask you both the same question and I wanna see
1:09:59
different opinions. Sure, yeah, if you have a I'm
1:10:02
gonna start with you. Sure.
1:10:03
If you have a salt in the kitchen, your go to all-purpose
1:10:05
workhorse salt. What is it?
1:10:06
Kosher. Kosher.
1:10:07
Red Diamond. Red Diamond.
1:10:09
Yeah, yeah, same red diamond crystal.
1:10:10
Yeah, with Diamond Crystal, we use Morton's on top on Top Chef
1:10:14
and it was just like very like I've never like it's just not,
1:10:19
it's a killer. No, no, it's it's just too salt.
1:10:21
Like there's there's nuances to different levels.
1:10:23
Dissolves. Yeah, it takes longer to
1:10:25
dissolve. So you'll you'll be making
1:10:26
something, you'll taste it. It's fine.
1:10:27
And then it's just like with recipes like you, the tomato
1:10:30
this week is not going to be the same as next week.
1:10:32
The lettuce this week is going to be different.
1:10:33
Like there's so many like carrots, for example.
1:10:35
I got a carrot dish on the menu right now.
1:10:36
They are super sweet, but it's because the field was iced over,
1:10:40
right. It's like, and that's what chefs
1:10:42
the recipe. This is a Thomas color thing.
1:10:44
The recipe is just a guideline. You, as the cook, put the soul
1:10:48
in the. Recipe 100.
1:10:49
Percent and and and that's so important and I think that's
1:10:51
what separates Ember food from everywhere else in the
1:10:53
Bitterroot Valley not to not to, you know you know, subtle shout
1:10:57
out but like, that was a gentle flex.
1:10:58
Yeah, but but you know, like, and that's what I try to tell
1:11:00
people like this asparagus that we're getting in the spring is
1:11:03
only available for two weeks. That's it.
1:11:04
This is a time and place right now and it's just super
1:11:07
important when you know. Same thing with salt, like in
1:11:10
recipes. If it's a different brand of
1:11:11
salt, restructure the recipe trust.
1:11:13
Right, right, right. I had to cook you sea salt, the
1:11:16
fine sea salt in place of kosher salt and it would just crush
1:11:19
this. Rest no, it's a It's a kitchen
1:11:21
killer. What's your plate wipe?
1:11:23
Oh easy. So I like linen likes and I roll
1:11:25
them up and then I use a little bit of vinegar and also water.
1:11:29
I learned that from millennia and it was great.
1:11:31
And these plate wipes got to be rolled tight and I only need 4
1:11:34
and. For the whole night.
1:11:36
For the whole night, yeah, yeah, well, we, we put a clean plate,
1:11:38
yeah, so. I'll say I use sports towels.
1:11:41
Yeah. And again, I don't, I don't like
1:11:43
the roll. I actually we we cut them into
1:11:46
about, you know, 2 by 2 and squares.
1:11:48
Yeah. So like chick towels or chick
1:11:50
towels, Yeah. Yep.
1:11:51
And then, and then we're using one per plate, you know, and
1:11:54
we're tossing. It what?
1:11:55
What do we use? Vinegar, Vodka.
1:11:56
Just water. Just water.
1:11:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
1:11:59
Vinegar, but it can't be too wet.
1:12:00
It has to be just the right amount of water.
1:12:02
Like you can't. Well that's why I like the linen
1:12:04
light cuz you you roll it up and then you you squeeze it one time
1:12:06
like this and then put it in a Yukumi pan so it fits perfectly.
1:12:09
We used to use vodka and I remember once I caught the cooks
1:12:11
chewing on like they were chewing on.
1:12:15
Italian. That's desperation, right?
1:12:16
Yeah. What's your, What's your?
1:12:19
Of course there's gonna be nuance, and of course there's
1:12:21
gonna be exceptions to the rule, but in general, what's your
1:12:24
finishing acid go to? Finishing acid, go to lime, you
1:12:28
know, yeah, I feel I feel lemon is great as well.
1:12:30
But you know, that that was another thing that, you know, my
1:12:33
style of cooking is, you know, citrus, spices, you know, not so
1:12:36
heavy. You know, I like interesting
1:12:38
flavors, but I'm always finishing with a little acidity.
1:12:41
And it's it's either a squeeze, a lime or a lime zest is my go
1:12:43
to. And also I oversee a bunch of
1:12:45
Mexican restaurants. So, you know, it's a it's a
1:12:47
different level. You know, it's a differently
1:12:49
mole. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:12:51
You know Limon Verde. What about you?
1:12:53
What's? Your pension assets so, so I'm a
1:12:55
big fan of having both I'll have like I really love vinegars and
1:12:58
I like homemade vinegars as well but The thing is is for me
1:13:01
especially at number right now 'cause I'm kind of like on the
1:13:03
other side of the Expo pass I'll bring everything like seasoned
1:13:07
to perfection. But I, I think what a lot of
1:13:08
people need on the Expo station, which they don't have is like a
1:13:11
squirt bottle of water, like, because you know, in my steam
1:13:14
well, and like this trick and, and some people might disagree
1:13:18
because it's plastic, but in the steam well, I keep the sauce in
1:13:20
the deli cup, but sometimes it reduces.
1:13:22
We've tried to hold it 135. But people need to understand
1:13:26
that sauces change every single day.
1:13:27
Yep, you know, and, and you, you like when they say, good
1:13:30
example. I just taught my new cook.
1:13:31
Lucky shout out, lucky he, you know, I was like, look, the
1:13:33
burblock's not going to be the same today.
1:13:34
Is that can we can we, can I make a public service now and
1:13:37
then go for it. Why the hell was I throwing out
1:13:39
Burblonc every day? It's not necessary.
1:13:41
Man. With the cost of butter now in
1:13:43
this economy, in this economy, bro, we don't need, we don't
1:13:46
need to make fresh Burblonc every day.
1:13:47
I'll die on that hill. No, but you do you make the base
1:13:49
and then with butter into it every day or do you make the
1:13:52
full sauce? No, I used to it.
1:13:53
I you OK? Shout out some people.
1:13:55
I hate this but I use I make a stable base right with xanthan
1:13:59
with xanthan and then I season that base for what I need in a
1:14:02
deli cup. So I make my batch for the week
1:14:04
and then when I'm reheating. It.
1:14:06
I didn't know that. When I, when I reheat it, I let
1:14:08
it split, I buzz it and then I'm hitting it with salt, a little
1:14:11
bit of lemon and then I hit the fish with lemon before it goes
1:14:14
out. But you know, the, the reality
1:14:15
is sauces are sexy and you know, like our bacon jam, for example,
1:14:19
that bitch ain't going nowhere. It's the same flavor every
1:14:20
single time. But when you have butter based
1:14:22
sauces or you know, wine based sauces, for example, fat, red
1:14:26
wine, Demi, gloss, whatever it is like it's not going to be as
1:14:28
vibrant as it was day one. The second day it's different
1:14:31
than the first day you have. Just a little squeeze bottle of
1:14:32
water on your station. Well, so sometimes if the water
1:14:35
like if like the sauce is, you know, it just it it reduces too
1:14:39
much, it gets too thick sometimes a little hot water
1:14:41
just to just to make it so it's nice in that pay and not like a
1:14:44
clunk on the plate, right. Good example.
1:14:46
Bacon jam is a perfect example of that.
1:14:48
When bacon jam is like where you could quinell it, it's hard for
1:14:51
the guests to really wrap their head around on the pork dish
1:14:53
that we have. So I like to thin it out just a
1:14:55
little bit, but you don't want to add those ingredients because
1:14:58
it's already concentrated. So a little squirt of water,
1:15:01
yeah, it makes a huge difference.
1:15:02
Ambro, Montana really changed. You, you, you don't use Flesh
1:15:05
Bird Blanc every day. No.
1:15:07
Hell no. No.
1:15:08
Yeah, I. Never thought I would hear a
1:15:09
lot. Of words come out of hey, hey, I
1:15:11
pay for the motherfucking groceries.
1:15:13
Ain't nothing wrong with that bird Blanc dude.
1:15:15
Yeah, that bird dude. Butter.
1:15:16
Butter like. Going from going from, you know,
1:15:19
chef to operator, yeah, you know.
1:15:21
It's a different. World.
1:15:22
You looking at every penny, you know, dude, he told me.
1:15:24
Like he's like, yeah, during the season we turn off all the
1:15:26
fridges. We only have one fridge.
1:15:27
We're consolidated. Oh, my damn, bro.
1:15:29
You you bootstrapping it, You know?
1:15:31
Yeah. Well, listen, what's your money?
1:15:32
Let me tell you something. Every dollar counts.
1:15:34
I don't care what anybody says. If you're, if you're managing a
1:15:37
restaurant for somebody else, you know, listen, like there's
1:15:40
some health standards that need to be followed.
1:15:41
But like, you know, good example, I have 3 fridges in
1:15:43
Ember. I got two of them shut down
1:15:45
right now. We're using one.
1:15:46
Yeah. You know, I'm looking at the
1:15:47
electricity bill. Yeah.
1:15:48
Yeah. And I'm like, OK, do we really
1:15:49
need 7 Slim Jim trash cans in the kitchen?
1:15:52
No, I just need 2. Right.
1:15:53
And. When do you throw away the
1:15:54
trash? When it's full.
1:15:55
Yeah, well, right, dude, That's right, dude, I'm telling you
1:15:58
like 1. And like, you know, and I hate
1:16:00
to say it, but supplies, you know, supplies are so out of
1:16:03
control. Crazy.
1:16:04
Of it like gloves, trash bags. For me, it's the chemicals,
1:16:07
right? So like the chemicals are just
1:16:09
what's what's killing. I'm like damn, do I really need
1:16:11
like, 'cause I use Ecolab, which is I shouldn't shut him out, but
1:16:14
I, you know, it's. Just got rid of his dishwasher
1:16:16
everything man. He's like if it's hooks are
1:16:18
washing, but listen. I used Don, Yeah.
1:16:22
He's done great, the manual pot and pan, but like I, I can't
1:16:25
tell you enough, like all of that matters, man.
1:16:27
When you see that, when you see that PNL statement or like you
1:16:30
know, you do your mid mid month check like chefs.
1:16:33
You don't need to see the end of the month PNL to know your
1:16:36
numbers. You place the order, OK, you can
1:16:38
see your total sales. You can you can look at your
1:16:41
prime cost. You can do it.
1:16:42
Don't make excuses. Learn how to manage the fucking
1:16:46
business because nothing else matters except for profit.
1:16:50
You live and die daily. Yeah, and that's what I'm
1:16:52
saying. It doesn't matter what type of
1:16:53
chicken, steak you can make you the like profit is the only
1:16:57
thing that matters, Man, I I don't care what anybody says.
1:16:59
Or else you don't have a restaurant.
1:17:00
And if you are not? If you are not, you know,
1:17:04
putting money in that owner's pocket, guess what?
1:17:06
He's going to look, he or she is going to look at every single
1:17:09
line item and they're going to start dissecting your operation
1:17:12
and it's 100% they will find that money.
1:17:14
So it's just super important a lot.
1:17:17
I grew up as a chef like, oh, the food is the most important,
1:17:19
this is the most important, blah, blah, blah.
1:17:20
No, you know what is occupancy, but.
1:17:23
But to the chef it is. Yes.
1:17:24
To the chef it is. It is the most important when
1:17:26
you're in that position. Yeah, when you're in the next
1:17:28
position. Yeah, it's.
1:17:29
It's a different. You're looking at efficiency,
1:17:31
yeah. 2nd to last question, if you had to put 4 chefs on Mount
1:17:35
Rushmore, who's who's your 4 chefs?
1:17:37
And then I'll ask you, OK. OK, this is a good one.
1:17:40
So I got it. I tend to lean more towards the
1:17:42
celebrity chef. So Emeril Lagasse was who got me
1:17:46
into cooking. Brandon was like, hey, watch
1:17:48
this show. And I watched Emeril Lagasse
1:17:51
religiously because not only was he fun, he made cooking fun, but
1:17:55
also he was like a little bit of an entertainer.
1:17:58
That was that was that. I'd say that's my first one.
1:18:02
Second one would have to be, Oh, this is tough, man, this is
1:18:06
tough. I would have to say Bobby Flay.
1:18:07
And I know I'm I know I'm going to pay for this.
1:18:09
I know The thing is that I know, but again, I grew up where I
1:18:15
look towards celebrity chefs and that's why I wanted to do TV
1:18:17
because I wanted to do that, you know, but I also wanted to cook
1:18:20
really good. And then, of course, you're a
1:18:22
Michelin star. So I would say Grant a chats,
1:18:28
you know, and also Thomas Keller, you know, and they
1:18:30
shouldn't be on the same. But if I had to choose, Thomas
1:18:33
Keller would be first. And then Grant took what he
1:18:36
learned from Thomas Keller and completely blew up the culinary.
1:18:39
Game. So Emeril, Grant, Thomas, Bobby.
1:18:42
Yeah, yeah. So for me, it's a little bit
1:18:45
different, but I'm going to go 4 to 1.
1:18:48
Joshua Skeens, he's one of my favorite chefs in the United
1:18:51
States. I really wish we could have
1:18:52
worked longer, but you know, small little story and I won't
1:18:55
go too long, but I knew he has the palette of a fucking
1:18:59
magician. And we were doing these tastings
1:19:01
for him and he tasted the sauce, right?
1:19:03
And he's like, the garlic is sprouted in the sauce.
1:19:08
And I'm like, what are you talking about, Jeff?
1:19:09
And then and I'm like, I'm like, he's like, he's like, it's go
1:19:12
check the garlic. I think it's sprouted.
1:19:14
And I mean, there is no chance on this God's green earth that
1:19:16
anybody would know like he did. He wasn't there for the
1:19:19
Miesenplas. I'm like Damien, Go.
1:19:21
Check. Go grab super Taser.
1:19:22
He, he, he's like Chef. It's, it's just like a little
1:19:25
sprouted and I'm like, fuck yeah.
1:19:28
And so that blew my mind. Well, anyway, the conversations
1:19:30
that we had, we've now I think we still have unfinished
1:19:32
business. That's number four for sure.
1:19:34
Grant hacketts #3 for sure. You know, he's just, he was
1:19:38
like, I read the linear book and I, you know, I followed him for
1:19:40
a long time. Great chef awesome story all the
1:19:44
above for on Adria is going to be #2 for me because you know I
1:19:48
went on this molecular tear where everything was foam and
1:19:51
this and that and like you asked me yeah listen you, you asked me
1:19:54
anything about hydros and I got. You, bro, you know, like I got,
1:19:56
I got to switch Bobby for Jose Andreas, Yeah.
1:19:58
Dang. Nice.
1:19:59
Yeah, yeah, my bad. I totally missed.
1:20:01
Yeah, sorry, Bobby. Well.
1:20:03
You're. Sorry, Bobby.
1:20:04
Yeah, and then I think the most influential chef for me.
1:20:07
Wait, so I did. I did.
1:20:08
So I have Joshua skins Grenakitz that I do a number then for on
1:20:13
Audria right, because him and the Ebony was it right it's.
1:20:17
Just as what it is, yeah. And then the number one spot,
1:20:20
I'm gonna have to split between Alan Ducas and Joe Rochon, but
1:20:24
I'm gonna lean. I had a conversation with some
1:20:27
of the other day that I was like, I split them as well.
1:20:29
Yeah, yeah, cuz like, cuz like for me, they were just so, so a
1:20:33
lot of people don't know this, but I went to go work at Joel
1:20:35
Rochon. It went, it was the reason why I
1:20:36
went to Vegas and three mission started.
1:20:39
Yeah and my background check didn't go through whatever MGM
1:20:41
Grand was cuz I didn't claim my tinted windows or whatever.
1:20:45
But you know that that for me was, you know, Joel Roche, like
1:20:50
doing all that research and going down the rabbit hole, you
1:20:52
know, was was very influential for me for my fine dining
1:20:55
career. I do want to say honorable
1:20:56
mention Thomas Keller. I love like French Laundry
1:20:59
changed my life, man, That book changed my life, that book.
1:21:01
Changed my life I I I often say is like Thomas Keller will
1:21:04
probably go down in. In history as one of the.
1:21:07
Greatest American chef 100%. I don't.
1:21:09
I don't know if anyone could compete with that title.
1:21:11
Yeah, in the United. States will I hire any of a
1:21:13
stat? No.
1:21:14
Right, right. And that's no disrespect, but
1:21:17
like, it's just. I think the greatest American
1:21:20
fine dining chef, yeah. You know, yeah, yeah.
1:21:22
Is important. Where can for people that want
1:21:25
to follow along go to your restaurants or follow you on
1:21:28
social media? Or can people find you?
1:21:29
So chef authorized across all platforms and my restaurants are
1:21:33
in Hamilton, Mt, the Bitterroot Valley.
1:21:36
We're out in the sticks. But if you're if you like
1:21:38
hiking, hunting or skiing and you ever find yourself in
1:21:41
Missoula, Mt, come on down, come.
1:21:44
On down there, brother. The last best place in the
1:21:46
United States. You know, there's one thing I
1:21:48
love about Montana. Freedom.
1:21:51
So I'm Chef Jonathan Dearden across all platforms.
1:21:54
I'm actually based in DCI oversee need hospitality and
1:21:58
design as a corporate chef. So we have, we're going to
1:22:00
actually have about 13 restaurants here.
1:22:03
Most of them are in DC, but we have two in Virginia Beach and
1:22:05
one in Philly. So yeah, I, I stay busy, but if
1:22:08
you ever, you know, reach out and we'll get you hooked up if
1:22:11
you're in the DC area or Philly or Virginia Beach.
1:22:13
And on the current season of Top Chef.
1:22:15
Yes, season 23 make sure you watch us battle it out yeah,
1:22:19
watch us battle it out. It's going to be look the I'm
1:22:21
I'm so excited to watch and see what made it in the edits,
1:22:24
because you know we're we're we're filming all day.
1:22:27
We are miked up all day. Don't say you can't talk about
1:22:29
the edits bro. Well, because we, well, we can
1:22:31
talk about what we were there, we experienced it, but what's
1:22:35
going to be on? OK, there's a process.
1:22:37
Well, we'll find out when all when all the the 20 lawyers that
1:22:39
are at Bravo. One thing, one thing, I'd say.
1:22:42
Cease and desist. One thing I will tell you is
1:22:45
that Brandon and I went, we went in with the intention of going
1:22:49
at each other's throats, you know, and that's because we have
1:22:52
something to. Prove here yeah, yeah, you know
1:22:53
we. Have something to prove?
1:22:54
So TuneIn on Peak streaming on Peacock and also on Bravo.
1:22:58
Awesome. Thank you, Jensen.
1:22:59
Yeah, thank you. It was a pleasure.
1:23:01
All right, that's the show. If you liked it, make sure you
1:23:03
leave five stars. Nothing less than five stars.
1:23:06
If you want more chefs PSA, go to chefspsa.com.
1:23:09
Get yourself some books, get yourself some merch, including
1:23:11
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1:23:14
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1:23:15
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1:23:20
We'll see you next week. Hit the porno music.