Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Jason Wahler Gets Honest About Addiction, Recovery and Reality TV

Transcript

Jason Wahler Gets Honest About Addiction, Recovery and Reality TV · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I remember being in a small town in Italy, struggling
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: to order coffee. I just couldn't get my point across
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: and it felt like I was missing out on really
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: connecting with the place. It's exactly why Babbel is a
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: game changer. It focuses on practical language skills, things you'd
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: actually say in real life situations, not just textbook phrases.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Imagine chatting easily at a cafe in Rome or asking
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: directions in Tokyo. With Babbel, this can happen in just
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: three weeks if you practice daily for only 10 minutes.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: It's designed by language experts, ensuring you learn conversational skills
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: that natives really use. Plus, you can fit lessons into
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: any part of your day, making it super convenient. So
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: if you've ever wanted to dive back into a language
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: or learn a new one, now is your chance. Visit babbel.com
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: slash pod to save up to 60% off your subscription.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Welcome back to Misunderstood,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I'm Rachel Yucatel. So I've known today's guest for over
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: 10 years. We first met when we both took part
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: in season four of Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew. You
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: guys met him when he joined the cast of Laguna
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Beach and became Elsie's bad boy boyfriend, better known to
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: everyone as Jason Waller. Jason's pretty much grown up on television.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: He's been on and off our screen since he was
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: 17 years old. We've seen the good and we've seen
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the bad and he opened up about all of it.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: We find out how he was cast on MTV's Laguna
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Beach and how it changed his life immediately. And we
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: also talk about who he was before he was famous.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: We talk about how real and unreal The Hills really was.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: And most importantly, we discuss how his struggles with addiction
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: affected his life and helped him find his purpose. Probably
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the most important thing for people to move forward. We
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: reminisced about our time on Celebrity Rehab, the friends we made,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: and how the experience transformed us. It was really the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: precursor for Jason finding his passion working in the addiction space.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Now he guides others on finding sobriety and the importance
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: of mental health. I think Jason is really making a
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: difference in this field because he comes from a place
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: of understanding because he's really been there. We talk all
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: about that. We and what's so misunderstood about it. He
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: was so great to reconnect with him and he was
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: so great on the show. He's been in my corner
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes for years and I'm absolutely in his.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: So I'm so excited to share his story with all
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of you. So enjoy my conversation with Jason Waller. Jason,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me from Nashville, Tennessee.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It is such an honor to see you again after
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: all these years.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: It's been a long time, Rachel. It's so good to
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: see you, and I'm grateful to be here. Thank you
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: for having me.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Of course. Um, I've been wanting to have you come
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: on the show for a long time because I think
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the topic that you really cover, which is recovery and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: addiction is such an important one. It's a universal one that, um,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: everyone I think can be touched by if they are
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: not struggling with something, they know someone who is struggling and, um,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I just think it's a really important topic,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: but we're going to get into that. I've known you
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: for many years, but something I don't really know because
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I've never asked you about is how you became the
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Jason Waller that everybody kind of knows. Can you start
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: by telling me who you were as a kid? Tell
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: me about Jason that we don't know. Yeah, okay.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: So, Jason, as you don't know, as a young guy,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I'm the youngest of four kids. I got two older
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: brothers and an older sister. I was born and raised
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: in Newport Beach, California. Amazing parents who are still married
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: until today. They just celebrated 50 years of marriage. But
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I had just a very amazing upbringing, you know, parents
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: who were very loving, caring, compassionate, who instilled amazing morals
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: and values in us. And growing up, I was an
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: outgoing kid. I loved, you know, surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, loved sports,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: loved playing baseball. I was just a very outgoing individual. And,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I'd really lost sight of who I was
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: around 12 or 13 years old. At that age, I
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: actually was diagnosed and struggled severely with OCD to the
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: point where I'd wash my hands until they would bleed.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And this is something that a lot of people don't
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: know about my backstory is when I was going through that.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: You know, I've seen every type of psychologist, psychiatrist you
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: can think of, you know, and back then, there's only
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: so much, you know, at 12 or 13 years old,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: there's only so much you could do or try to
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: explain back then, you know, and when you're going through it.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And when I saw those psychiatrists, I saw the therapist,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I was put on medication to help mitigate
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: the symptoms, but I never really dealt with the underlying issues.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah. after doing all this work on myself,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: you know, I identified that I really, you know, I
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: can see how I almost struggled going through addiction and
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: all the different things that I did. I can see
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: how I, I basically struggled with addiction way before I
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: ever picked up the drink or the drug. And what
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: I mean by that is as that young kid that
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I was explaining to you, the outgoing, you know, that
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: love the sports, love these different things. It's always a
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: part of the popular group, you know, had a girlfriend,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: whatever it may be. I was able to divert what
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: was really going on behind closed doors and living this
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: double life and so I had a lot of these
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: insecurities I had a lot of you know depression anxiety
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: all these different things that were going on as a
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: very young kid which was was very challenging but again
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: so going back to you know after seeing therapists psychiatrists
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: taking medication to mitigate the symptoms I didn't know how
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: to communicate that. Even my parents knew what was going on.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: But when you're 12, 13 years old, 20-plus years ago, right,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the times are completely different. I did not know how
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: to communicate that. I did not know how to express
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: what was going on. And so as a young kid,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of stuff going into my, you know, adolescence,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: early teens, late teens. There was a lot of stuff
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: that I was dealing with that was never really unveiled before. Um,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: you know, and I struggled even, even at 16, 17.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So that's where that's, you know, fast, you know, streamlined into, uh,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: you know, ultimately struggling with addiction. And by the age
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: of 17, I actually went to boarding school out in Provo, Utah.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Prior to that, I actually went to a wilderness program
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: where you actually had gotten to the woods and you're
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: out there for like 30 days to do some self-discovery.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And then I came back to, uh, to a boarding
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: school and then um you know from there uh i
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: think you know part of that struggle though really enticed
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff for the show because you
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: know i mean at that young age obviously i was
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: dealing with a lot of underlying issues but also masking
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: that with alcohol and different things so it created this
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: unique perspective and or character if that makes sense so yeah.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I'm curious if a lot of those things you went
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: through starting at the young age you were talking about, 11, 12,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: do you think that stemmed from the fact that you
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: had something wrong like this OCD? Or you think it's
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: just like typical, you know, peer pressure? There's a lot
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: of emotions and physical things going on. You're changing. I'm
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: curious because we both have kids, right? And I think
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: it's a good conversation to have, like, Sometimes it's not
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: some traumatic event that somebody like can't get over in
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: their childhood. Sometimes it's just growing up. It's hard. So
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: what was it for you?
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. Well, after again, you have to understand
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: I've done a lot of work over the years. Right. So,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking about 20 plus years of work.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: So I've been able to actually identify things. So the
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: long story short answer is I actually just found out
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: a couple years ago that I actually had PANDAS. That's
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: where it's pediatric autoimmune. I forget what the acronym stands for,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: but it's actually where strep throat attacks a part of
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: the brain that creates OCD. So that's where really the
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: OCD had stemmed from. Um, but prior to that, I mean, look, I'm,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I'm pre-genetically disposed to addiction, right? I mean, like, look,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I I'm Cherokee German and Irish. I mean, when I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: came out of the womb, I should have a stamp
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: on my forehead saying, do not give this kid any,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: any form of substances. But, um, you know, I think
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: there was definitely, obviously there's the peer pressures and there's
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: the things that you go through. Um, but that was
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: a really big turning point. And I really, even after
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: all these years of, of, of work that I've done,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I've really can kind of like pinpoint now, um, That
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: that's where a lot of my, like, you know, when
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: you start to uncover things where people, whether they have
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: traumatic events, whether they, you know, whatever that may be
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: that they've gone through, that was a really big piece
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: of my life that I never really identified with. Because again,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: when I, you know, After I started taking medication, started
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: going through those things, I kind of was like, oh,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: that's not the problem. You know what I mean? But
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: like that's where it really– that's where like kind of
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: the root cause came from. And that's where after all
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: the therapy sessions, all the doctors and everybody I've met with,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's really kind of where a lot of
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: this stemmed from was not properly dealing with or– addressing
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: those issues and again we did the best that we
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: possibly could given the state and the time that we
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: were in right so um and i'm sure there's you
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: know there's other pieces that played into it yeah they're
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: you know just i mean just the pressures of growing
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: up especially in and you know southern california there's a
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: lot of pressures that come with that um that definitely
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: added to the to the.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Issues Financial anxiety, anyone? Worrying about it does not help.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Earnin' does. Earnin' is an app that gives you access
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: to your pay as you work up to $ 100 per
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: day or up to $ 750 per pay period. Earnin' makes
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: it so easy too. All you have to do is
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: download the app and verify your paycheck. It's that simple.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Then access up to $ 100 a day as you work
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and leave an optional tip. Any money you access plus
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck. Earn It
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: empowers you to live life to the fullest, no mandatory
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: fees and no credit check. You can join over 3.5
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: million customers when you make Earn It a part of
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: your financial routine. When I use Earn It, I get
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: very excited because I have extra money to go on
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: a much-needed girls' night out, use it for a last-minute
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: gift for the holidays, or an unexpected trip to the vet,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: which just happened last week. So download Earnings today, spelled E-A-R-N-I-N,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: in the Google Play or Apple App Store. When you
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: download the Earnings app, type in understood under podcast when
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: you sign up. It'll really help the show. Understood under podcast.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Subject to your available earnings, location, daily max, and pay
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: period max. See earnin.com slash TOS for details. Earnin is
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank products are
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: issued by Evolve Bank and Trust member FDIC.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: You mentioned going to a wilderness school and then going
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: to Provo. I also went to a wilderness school, so
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I know what that is. We have different sets of parents,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: as you know, because we did our show together. And
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I think you remember and I remember your parents who
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: are amazing. You like you spoke about grew up with very,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: you know, involved parents who clearly cared about you. And
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: I think you were going to go on your path
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: no matter what. I had the experience and I've met
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who their parents didn't know how
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: to handle them. And I think that happened with your
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: parents a little bit. So they send you away to
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: try and figure it out because they can't figure it out.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: And sometimes that backfires because those wilderness programs or those
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: therapeutic schools, I don't know if the one you went
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: to in Provo was one of those therapeutic ones. But
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: for me, I felt abandoned. Like I felt like they
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: didn't understand me. Nobody understood me. I was misunderstood. And
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: that sent me down a different road. How did you
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: feel about that?
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because, I mean, my parents being who
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: they are and the way that we were brought up,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: they over-communicated. It wasn't like I was kidnapped in the
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: middle of the night. Like, there's stories like that where
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: kids are literally, you know.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than, like, anywhere else.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: It's Dune ADL.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: Dune ADL. There's an accent on the E.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Lift, please.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: You're going past Kimmage.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, Kimmage.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: No.
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: Done Deal Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Where we sat down and honestly, for me, that's where
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I could see some of the symptoms of addiction, right?
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Or the lying, the manipulation, all those different things. I mean,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I was kind of under some heat going through that process.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: And we literally sat down and we communicated like, Hey,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: what would be best? You know? And for me, I
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: was kind of like, yeah, I'll get out of Dodge.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I think it would be
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: beneficial for, for that. But I think ultimately it was
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: really to take some of the heat of what was
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: going on just from bad grades and ditching school and
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: this other things that were there. And I was like, yeah, that's,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: let's blame it on this. And so again, you know,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: when you're that young, you're so impressionable and you're just,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: you know, you're, you're impulsive. And so, but my parents
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: did a good job of communicating around and they were
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: very supportive in a lot of those decisions that we'd made.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about how you went from there to
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: getting cast on Laguna Beach.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: So I, again, being in, I was in Utah when
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the show started Laguna Beach, when it came to fruition
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: and I'll never forget, I ended up getting a call,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: you know, by a buddy or whoever it was. It's
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: been like, you won't believe what's going on. They're doing
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: a show in Laguna Beach. They're doing a spinoff from
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: the show, the OC, but they're doing like a soft
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: scripted reality show. And I was like, No way. Like, okay.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Like what a, what a trip. Didn't really think anything
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: of it. They shot the first season. It did well,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: you know, and, and when I came back, I think
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I tried watching like the first or second episode and
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I never really got into it. And it was, you know,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: just had there, it was, you know, having your friends
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: and stuff on it was cause back then we, you know,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: that was, you only had cable television. You didn't have YouTube.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: You didn't have Netflix. You didn't have all these other things.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So obviously it was like, part of me was like, Oh,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: this shows like it's lame, but it was also like, okay,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: it's pretty cool that our, you know, that they're, they're
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: doing this here. And MTV back then was, I was,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: it was, it was legit. So, um, but, uh, after
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: it came out, they, they were doing a second season.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: They asked some of the cast, like, Hey, who should
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: we bring back? Because, you know, some of the seniors
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: that are on there are gone now. So who, who
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: would be good to interview? And so my name got
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: brought up multiple times. And again, just given, um, The
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: current state, obviously, when I went to wilderness program and
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I went to boarding school, it only had such a.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: You had some flavor to you.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: It didn't have too much of a healing process to it.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: So when I came back, I was still active in
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of the behaviors and stuff that I was in.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So when they interviewed me, it was literally, I'll never forget,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: went to the rooftop in Laguna Beach and did the interview.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: And the rest is history.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: This holiday season has been jam-packed. There never seems to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: be enough time in the day to get everything done.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Something always falls to the wayside and usually getting a
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: good meal is the thing that suffers. I started using
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Factor and I cannot tell you how much I love it.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I get healthy meals and it saves me so much time.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I can actually do my errands, take care of my
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: daughter and enjoy all the holiday events. Factor is America's
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: number one ready-to-eat meal delivery service. You can eat well
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with chef-prepared, dietician-approved, ready-to-eat meals
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: delivered straight to your door. You'll save time and stay
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: on track with your healthy lifestyle while tackling all your
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: holiday to-dos. There are so many great things about Factor.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: There's no grocery shopping, no chopping, no prepping, no cleaning up.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Factor's fresh, never frozen meals get delivered straight to your
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: door and all you have to do is heat them
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: up for two minutes and enjoy. The food is delicious
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and they give you so many choices. There's calorie smart,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: vegan and veggie, protein plus, a ton more, something for everyone.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: And when you are on the go. They offer so
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: many add-ons like shakes, smoothies, and juices. They think of
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: everything so you don't have to. So I just opened
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: my box yesterday and I have to tell you, the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: shakes are really my favorite. I'm so excited about them.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: They taste so good. I'm excited to use these meals.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: They're so quick and everything tastes so fresh. I'm telling you,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: it's never frozen. So it doesn't have that like frozen
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: aftertaste at all it's really good you guys my favorite
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: thing is i don't have to worry about anything i
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: don't have to go to the store i don't have
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: to prep food it literally comes in a box and
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: i don't have to burn anything i literally almost burned
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: the house down the other day making cookies so this
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: really saves you a lot of hassle you decide what
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: you want to eat you open the package you heat
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: it for two minutes and you are done honestly every
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: meal was delicious the pasta the grilled chicken even the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: vegetables tasted fresh and they were amazing So head to factormeal.com
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: slash understood50 and use the code understood50, that's understood50, to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: get 50% off. That's code understood5050 at factormeals.com slash understood50
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to get 50% off. Enjoy, you guys.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: They ended up casting me pretty quickly.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Who did you know on the current cast before that
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: had recommended you?
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Uh, Kristen Cavallari, Talon, Toriero. Um, I knew Steven and Dieter. Um,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: so I knew like half of the, the cast. I mean,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: we knew every, we're going to be, it was a very,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: very small school. So, I mean, we knew everybody, but
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: there was some of the people on there were, were
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: our close friends. So, um, yeah, that was who, who
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: recommended it. Okay.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: So now what age were you when this started?
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: 17.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: So were you over, you were in boarding school and
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you came home for it or you were already home?
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: No, I was already home. So I was at boarding school,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: came back, the show was out. And then they got
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: the news pretty quickly that they wanted to, to, to
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: shoot a second season. And then, and then I was
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: brought on.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. So tell me what that's like to be 17
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: years old. And all of a sudden you're part of
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: this hit TV show. Like you're growing up kind of
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: on TV.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: It was bizarre. Um, I mean, I'll never forget. I mean,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: my life changed overnight. I literally is when the commercial
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: started coming out and the promos and, you know, back
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: in the movie theaters, like when you go to go
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: to movies, they would, they literally run like trailers for
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: it and stuff. And I remember going down to the
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: gas station, like after it started coming out and my car,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: like got bombarded with people. And I was like, what the,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: what the hell? Like just didn't know what to expect.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: And I, And I was like, OK, like this, I
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: can get used to this, you know. And so, I mean,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: you take somebody who's got an overinflated ego with an
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: underestimated sense of self-worth, you know, that really pours some
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: fuel to the fire on it. And it was it
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: was a trip, you know, looking at how. Because it
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: was just like literally our whole life changed overnight. It
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: wasn't like this drawn-out process. And the show had such
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: a following, and it was so successful, which is crazy.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Well, and it was one of those, the first reality
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: shows kind of that really stuck out, made it, people
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: were obsessed with it.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And so I think that's really interesting that, you know,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you got to be a part of it. Now there's
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: so much talk about if characters were created, if it
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: wasn't really reality, like what was your experience when you
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: were on it? Did you feel like you were just
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: living life and they were getting it on film or
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: did you feel like you had to create a character?
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: It's so funny. Cause everybody, like, I mean, after doing
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: like Kristen and Steven's back to the beach show and like,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: everybody really had a different experience. And so like, there
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: was a lot of stage stuff for some people, some,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: it wasn't for me. It was like, I feel like
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: they had to get whatever they could because I was
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: so hit or miss. Like, I mean, I'd literally be
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: hammered half the time. And so it's like, you know, they,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: they would just try to capture what they could. I mean,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: there was very, I mean, there was like scenes that
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: we'd have to reshoot here and there, but overall, I mean, for,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: for me on Laguna specifically, I mean, it was pretty
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: true to, to what you got. I mean, I'd say
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: maybe 10% of it was, you know, there was edits
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: and different things like that, but Some of the other cast,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, they had like half their stuff was reshot
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: or scripted. And so it was different for each. But
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: The Hills, it started to get more scripted and scenarios and,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: you know, just different things that they would set up
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: became more and more scripted.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Is it weird to look back and watch some of
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: those episodes? Do you ever watch those episodes, by the way?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I had not. So I had not watched an episode for...
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I can't believe it was like 15 years probably. And
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: then Netflix picked up the series just like within the
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: last year. And my mother-in-law and my wife were like,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: oh my God, the show's– it's on here. Let's watch
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: an episode. And they turned it on and, and we
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: ended up watching it and it was, it was brutal.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't believe, I just want to be
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: honest with you. I can't believe that. I mean, the
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: show seemed like kind of boring and lame to me.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I can't believe that it was the phenomenon that it was.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: And just, it was, It was definitely something that I
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: wouldn't care less to watch. But it was also just
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: kind of seeing, you know, the state of mind, mentally, emotionally,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: physically that I was in. I mean, after, you know,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: looking back, I can see how much I was really
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: struggling and how unaware and how unattuned to it I was.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was very apparent that I was, you know,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: struggling with alcoholism and just lost, lost individual.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Well, that was my next question. Like, what was it
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: like to look back and see who you were? Did
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: you not even recognize that person or were you like, yeah, I,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I know that guy.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think, I think both, um,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I did not realize how, how sick I was. Um,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: because when you're active in it, you know, it's a
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: disease of denial and you don't want to take ownership
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: or accountability for a lot of the things that you do. And, Um,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm, I'm, I was aware of some of the,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: you know, some of the things that I was walking through,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: but to be able to physically see it, which is,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: is interesting having your, you know, your senior year documented or,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: you know, just at that time in your life. I mean,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: you know, there's, you're, it's crazy because your parents, like
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: my parents, at least, you know, it's like I had
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: my childhood and my early teens documented, whether it was
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: for sports, different things, but kind of after 13 or 14,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: you know, most people didn't have that. And it's something
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: that we had that we could look back, which was,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: which is crazy. So, um, but seeing it, yeah, it was,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I was, um, you know, it was, it was hard.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: It was, it was almost kind of hard to watch, um,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: seeing kind of the state that, that I was in. And, um,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: because there was, there was so many opportunities to really
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: get appropriate help and, and, and direction and stuff. But, um,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: you know, something I didn't grasp onto, which again, everything
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: happens for a reason. Um, and so, but it definitely, um,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: It was definitely challenging to see some of those scenes.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: So correct me if I'm wrong, but you were kind
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: of represented as like a partier, cool kid, hot guy,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: rich kid, you know, badass on the show. Was there
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: something going on in your personal life, though, that we
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: didn't see that wasn't caught? Like, was that who you
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: were at the time? Um.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think, you know, minus just knowing
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: that I really struggled with alcoholism. I think that outside
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: of that, that's.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than, like, anywhere else.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: It's Dune ADL.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: Dune ADL. There's an accent on the E.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dune Deal Cars.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: Lift? Please.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Please.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: You're going past Kimmage.
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: No.
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: Done deal cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, everything else that was portrayed was
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: what it was. But yeah, you were seeing somebody who
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: was really sick.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And just putting you to the side for one second,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, what about the show do you think made
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: it pop the way it did? It was like lightning
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: in a bottle. It was like all of a sudden
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: the show was, everybody was watching it. Obviously MTV and
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: VH1 were really big at the time, but like that
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: really stood out. Was there something that you think really
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: made it stand out?
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I honestly have no idea. I think this may be
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the lifestyle that was portrayed because the OC, the scripted
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: show was, it was a pretty big success on Fox.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: And I think that being able to dovetail, I thought
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: it was, you know, it's creatively genius to take a
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: show that's scripted, that's doing very well and kind of
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: portray that in the real life. And so I think
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: maybe it was just more of, it was, it was,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: it was a thing for people to look at and,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, not, not fantasize, but it
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: was just like, it was a glorified lifestyle, I think
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: at that age. And I think, you know, I think
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: it's something that, you know, young people, you know, wanted
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: just like, I mean, it's, as time has gone on,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: we have such a false sense of reality today, thanks to,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: you know, social media and just other outlets and different things.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I think that was kind of like the first of its,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: of its kind would be my guess, but I have
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: no idea.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Right. So how many years did you end up living
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: your life on TV?
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: So, God, we did Laguna season two, season three. We
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: did the hills. I did like the first, second, third
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: season of that and did some random stuff here and there.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I'd say like on and off for like 10 years.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: It was like on and off for, I don't know.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: It feels like it was, I mean, I'd say probably
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: like 10 years, it felt like. I mean, on and
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: off with this different stuff, you know what I mean?
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: It wasn't consistent by any means. I mean, because like
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I said, it was Laguna, it was The Hills, then
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: we did, you know, did this show, Celebrity Rap Superstar,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: and then we did Celebrity Rehab. And then, you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: there was obviously space in between the shows, but I'd
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: say over the course of 10 years, and then The
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Hills came back from 2000, you know, was it 1920
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: and 21? So, I mean, it was like, I'd say
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: probably like a 10-year stint.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Well, before we get there, I mean, I asked the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: question because those are the formative years where you're getting, like,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: your first job. And your job, you know, you were
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: a reality star and you were getting paid, I assume,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: well or well enough to, you know, have that replace
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: getting a real job. So when you finally were off
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the hills, what did you do for a job? What
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: did you think you were going to do?
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so... Well, look, I think that your greatest deficits
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: can become your greatest assets. And so when I was
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: done with the TV side of things and when I
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: really immersed myself into recovery, and it's funny you bring
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: that up because I think one of the saving graces
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: for me was actually getting a job, having accountability, having
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: a purpose, having a passion, and having something to show
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: up to. I actually started working within the substance abuse space.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: So I Worked for Mike Netherton. He was the president
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: of Betty Ford for 25 years. He kind of took
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: me under his wing. Started working with, you know, Dr. Drew.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Kind of, again, was a very big mentor and took
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: me under his wing as well as Dr. Daniel Hedrick.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: He was the head of Hogue and Mission Hospital. So
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I had these amazing mentors there. who just kind of
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: embraced me in early stages of sobriety. And I actually
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: went and started working in the substance abuse space. I
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: worked for a program called Northbound Recovery, which I think
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: we had some mutual friends go through there. But I
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: started as a recovery advocate where I basically was the
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: liaison between the clinical team and the clientele Um, and
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I built that whole program up and I ended up
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: taking over the alumni program and developed a whole activities
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: program and kind of just really immersed myself into that.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: And then I started to go into marketing and I
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: kind of grew within that space. Um, but I, I
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: went in there like probably 90 days, maybe, maybe a
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: little bit longer, probably probably like 120 days of sobriety.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Cause it was after celebrity rehab and stuff after we
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: had met, uh, started trying to get my life together and, um,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I was in I started doing that and
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I kind of really dedicated my life to that. And
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: so go ahead.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: No, I was going to say, I just want to
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: give it context that I have it here. By the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: age of 23, this is what you said, you'd been
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: arrested over a dozen times and incarcerated for well over
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: 100 days. You had already attended 11 treatment centers from
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Florida to Hawaii, been 5150'd and hospitalized over a dozen times. Like,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to give context to people that haven't followed
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: your story, like what you really went through to hit
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: your rock bottom here. to find solace or find change
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and purpose in, in the recovery aspect, as opposed to
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: just going through the 12 steps and being like, okay,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: let me get away from this and find a completely
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: different job. Um, so you really went through it as
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: a kid. We met, like you met what, like you said,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: at celebrity rehab, where were you at in your sobriety
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: at that point?
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: That's where, so I actually went on to celebrity rehab sober. Um,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: and I went in there and, um, it was cause
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: it was interesting. I mean, going on there, cause I
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: remember they wanted me to, to, to use, to go
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: in there. And I was like, nah, it's not part
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: of it. Cause I was actually in Florida at treatment
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: prior to that. Um, And when I went in there,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: it was crazy because there was obviously some people in
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: there that were really, really struggling and they were coming
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: off stuff. And even when we were getting interviews for
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: that show years ago, it was crazy being in there
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: because for me, it was like even though we were
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: on a show, it was like I was a background
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: prop in the show just watching all the chaos and
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: the stuff that was going on because there was obviously
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: people really struggling. struggling and going through what they were
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: going through. And I'd say like that around that time,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: even prior to that, it's like where my real like
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: commitment and journey, like obviously there were struggles and, and, and,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: you know, what relapses and stuff that happened within that duration.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: But that's when like, you know, that really started to shift.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: And I'd say like, I really entered into recovery, like
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: July 23rd, 2010 is when my life really started to shift. Um, and,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and again, when I started connecting and as part of
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: that process too, when I got that job, when I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: started working with them, like that's when I started to
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: work a program, I removed myself from the entertainment side
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: of stuff. I moved out of LA, went back down
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: to orange County. Um, and I was in a place
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: of willingness and I was in a place of, of, of,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: of being open to taking direction. And I think the
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: biggest piece to it was being able to get really
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: open and honest. Um, because that was my biggest, my
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: biggest deficit was just not being willing to get open
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: and honest with that.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: And so once I was able to get rid of
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the ego or whatever.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, I mean, there was, you know, definitely
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: becoming humble, um, and looking at that, but yeah, the,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, something, you know, to add on to, um,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: what you'd stated from all the different treatment centers, the arrests,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: the hospitalizations and things like that. I think everything on
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: there was correct. I don't know that I was in
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: the hospital 12 times, but I mean, probably pretty damn close.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: But other than that, everything else is there. But the
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: one thing that my addiction drove me to is not
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: only contemplation, but attempted suicide. And so I think that's
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: one of the other pieces is like growing up. I mean,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: that's just how cunning, baffling and powerful this thing is. is,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: you know, I had everything that society says is amazing,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: whether it's money, notoriety, access, whatever you want to call it. And,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I just had the most, you know,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: empty side. It was just so empty inside. And it
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: just gets to a place where you just don't want
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: to do it anymore. It's just amazing. I think, you know,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: God definitely kept me here for a greater purpose. And,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm obviously very well aware of that today,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: just looking at what I do and But yeah, it was,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: it was, it was a hellacious, you know, from 17,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: 18 to, I mean, even probably even all the way
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: back to the 13, but I mean, it really got
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: bad by like 17, 18 to 23, 23 years old.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: It was, it was challenging.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Was it your experience that you had to hit a
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: rock bottom or something that really was like, okay, I'm done.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I have to make a change. Or was it the
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: continual kind of, you know, falling that you were like,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I don't want to keep doing this.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what my moment of clarity was.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, because look, I don't know how many more
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: bottoms I could have hit. And I don't think you
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: have to always hit a bottom because unfortunately in this
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: day and age, bottom could be death. I mean, addiction
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: is totally different today than what it was 20 years ago, right?
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: That's a whole other story. But my moment of clarity was,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: I'll never forget this, is after all the stuff we
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: just mentioned, after the suicide and different things, I remember
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: sitting in a therapy office with my My mom and dad,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: and again, you have to remember the family dynamic and
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: the relationship I had with my family and my upbringing.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: My dad just looked across at me because I was struggling.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: He looks over and he's just like, look, mom and
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to do anymore. Our marriage is suffering.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: The family is at just a complete disarray. obviously there's
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of codependency in there, but, uh, you know,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: mom and I are lying in bed, like two planks
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: of wood, just waiting for the phone call that you're dead.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: And when, when he said that there was, I don't
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: know what it was, you know, I, I, it was
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: literally a moment of clarity. It was like a light
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: came through and I was like, look, I don't care
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: enough about myself or my wellbeing. And I said, you
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: guys will become my motivation. And that was like right
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: around the whole celebrity. It was like around that whole
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: time that this all started to take place. Um, And
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: that became the, the shifting moment where I'm like, look,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I don't care enough about myself, but I, you know, I,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I care about you guys. And they became my motivation. And,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: and honestly, that was for me, that's what I needed.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I needed something to hold on to like that. And it's, again, it's,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: it's different for everybody. Some people it has to be
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: strictly for them. But there was enough connection with that,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: where I held onto that. And I'd say by after
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: like seven, eight months, my life obviously started to change
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: and and to get better. And it's something that I
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: ended up taking a hold of and wanted to continue
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: pursuing for myself. And, you know, I ended up getting
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: multiple years of sobriety after that.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I think that's actually a really interesting point you make
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: because some people aren't at the point where they care
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: enough about themselves. And it has to be about, or
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: sometimes it can be about, you know, caring that much
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: about a child, a parent that you're going to hurt,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. You know, I remember, as you know,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: about when I was younger, my father struggled with addiction
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: and he ended up dying of a cocaine overdose when
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: he was 44. And I was 15 and they had
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: asked me when I was, I think I was 11
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: at the time, two or nine or something, to write
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: him a letter for intervention. And I think the intention
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: behind that was to get him to care about something
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: else because he clearly didn't care about himself at that point, right?
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And didn't care if he died. He just cared about
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: his addiction. So I think they were using me as
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: a tool to be like, if you don't care enough
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: about losing your life, care for this girl. And I
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: remember specifically them asking me to say, I don't want
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: to have to tell my friends that, you know, I
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: grew up without a dad, which almost brings me to
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: tears because that's what happened. And he didn't, you know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: take that so seriously.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Dunaidial.
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: Lift, please.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: You're going past Kimmage.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: Done Deal Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I got to spend, as you were talking about,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: with Celebrity Rehab, you know, a good three weeks with you.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: And we had some very interesting people in our group.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I thought it'd be fun if we could talk about
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: it because we actually haven't talked about it in a
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: long time. We had a total of eight people in
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Celebrity Rehab with us who are all great people. Unfortunately... um,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: which I also think is very interesting. Two people are
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: no longer here with us due to addiction. Um, Jason
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Davis and, um, Frankie lawns, uh, who, you know, were
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: such a, everybody was such a big part of our show, but, um,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: did you stay, I know you stayed in touch with, um, Jason,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: but were you close with him before he died?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Ironically, um, we reconnected, we, we, we'd stayed in
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: communication the whole time, but we had actually gotten closest
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: after the show that last nine months of his life. Um,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: we reconnected and, um, you know, I, I, I'd started
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: spending a lot of time with him and, and he
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: was doing really well. And it's, you know, it's just,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: it literally, as you stated, you know, when they both
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: passed and just, it gave me goosebumps because it's, it's devastating,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: you know, to see how this, how this takes away people. And, um,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I did, I stayed in touch with
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Jay and, and I, but I never stayed in touch
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: with Frankie. And it's, it's so funny when that you
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: bring them up because I mean, they, they literally were,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: were the light of that show. I mean, I was,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I was between the two of them. I was, it
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: was literally the two on there that I, I, I've
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: never laughed so hard in my entire life between the
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: two of them from Jason going to snatching her wig
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: off to her, just talking so much shit to him. And,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, they were so funny, and it's really, really
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: sad that they're no longer here.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is so sad. And I love them dearly.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed, I will say, I know that sounds weird,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: the three weeks that I had on that show. I
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: was convinced to do the show because obviously my name
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: had become very popular at the time because of a
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: little scandal I was in. But the reason why I
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: chose to go is because internally I had become like
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: a recluse. The news was talking about me and creating
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: a narrative for me. that was very debilitating to me.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: And I didn't deal with that when I was there,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: but I dealt with, you know, what got me there
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: kind of. And when I sat with Dr. Drew, I
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: didn't know what I needed, but I, you know, he
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: convinced me the night before he said, listen, I understand you.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: You know, you've made some poor decisions because you're struggling
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: with a love addiction, which I thought sounded so dumb.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is embarrassing. People are going on this
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: show for real addictions that are killing them. And, you know,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to go on there and say that.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I don't have an addiction. But I knew that being
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: in the same room with him, as you know, it's
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: like you're the only person there. Like, you feel so.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Safe and understood and listened to. And that's what I
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: really needed. So that's why I chose to do the show.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And I got so much out of it. I dealt
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: with losing my father from a cocaine overdose at a
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: young age and losing that sort of unconditional male figure
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: very quickly. And then losing my fiance in September 11.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: And that, I mean, it really helped me, but not
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: only that, it helped me to be in a house
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: with seven other people that were struggling from addictions that
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't really understand. I didn't know what that was like.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: And I enjoyed every single person, maybe with the exception
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: of Janice, because we got into so many arguments. But
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: all in all, I thought it was great. People always say, oh,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: reality TV is so scripted. That was not scripted. Did
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: you think it was scripted?
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: No, that's about as real as it gets. I mean,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: there's corners in every corner of the room. I mean,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: they literally just... I don't remember reenacting one thing there.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think maybe some of the voiceovers that
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: we did, but I think everything that was that was
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: done there was, I don't think people were literally mentally
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: or emotionally or physically in a place to be able to, to,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: to redo shots, you know, or be set up for things.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I think it was, that was a very real experience. Right.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: And who people might not remember, but he was an
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: amazing singer and he was fantastic in this group. He
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: really made the group. He kind of, even though he
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: was the one dealing with like a heroin addiction, right?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Is that what he meant? He was like the glue
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: that held us all together, kind of.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. There was Jeremy London, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: And Jeremy was very funny because he was coming off
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: some scandal where he claimed he had been kidnapped and
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: thrown into the back of a car and forced to
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: do drugs. And I was like, does that happen?
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I forgot about that. And we had Eric Roberts.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Eric Roberts was great.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he brought credibility to the show.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he brought credibility. Right.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: And then Frankie, no one knew who she was, but
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: they all knew who she, Keisha Cole, and she was
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Keisha Cole's mom. But she was amazing. Who else did
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: we have? Was that it? Oh, and Janice Dickinson. What
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: am I saying? My roommate.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Janice Dickinson. She's doing fantastic. I actually reconnected with
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: her recently and talked to her. She's happily married, and
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: she's doing the deal, and she's doing well.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: She had just started talking about dating that guy, I think,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: when we were doing the show. So he's the therapist, right,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: or the psychologist?
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, ironic, right?
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally ironic.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: What a trip. No, that show was, that would actually
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: be a funny show to go back and watch. Like
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: that's something that I could, I mean, it's even because
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: of Jason and Frankie, that's something I might have to
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: pull out.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's on Amazon Prime in case anyone
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: wants to watch it. I think it was season four
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: or something. Um, but I, you know, even after, and
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I want people to know this because after we did
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: the show, I, even though, again, I wasn't dealing with
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: somebody to be sober from really, I went into a
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: sober house with, um, who was in it, Jason Davis
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: and Jeremy, I think was in it with me. And
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: then I rented a house and, and they all came
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: and lived with me. And I think you came for
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: a little bit with your friends. Yeah.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Chicken. Chicken. Yes. Oh, my gosh. What a trip. I remember, yeah,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: because you guys all ended up going to that sober
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: living in Malibu. And then after, you ended up renting
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: a house. And it was like down below Wilshire or something.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I remember.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: And everybody was hanging out and you guys were my boys.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: And I was like the sober one, like trying to
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: be like, no, you know, Jason left one night and
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: it's like, I'm going to go use heroin. And we
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: all like, we're like, no, we got to go find you.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: It was like version of the show privately, but yeah.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: But I do want people to realize that this was
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: like a real thing for us. And we kept a real,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: we kept real relationships and we, we, we were holding
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: each other accountable and everyone ended up going their separate
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: ways later. I moved back to New York or whatever,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: but we all, I think have a special bond because
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: we did go through that. And it was very real.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: It was very real for me. I know it was
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: real for you, even though you weren't necessarily struggling with,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: you know, relapsing at that time, but I think you
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: did struggle a little bit after, but you were given
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: some tools to really move forward, right?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: 100%. Hit the nail on the head, and that's where
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I think the transition really started to happen, though, is
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: even with some of the trials and tribulations, that's where
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: the The road really, really started because that then allotted
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: me the opportunity after after the show and stuff. That's
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: when I went back down to Orange County. And then
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: that's when I connected with Mike and Paul and Dr.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Ame or Dr.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Hedrick and stayed in communication with Dr. Drew. And that's
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: where my life really started to shift. But that show,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: it was it was kind of the it's funny. It
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: was like Laguna Beach, the Hills Celebrity Rehab. You can
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: kind of see how that that whole thing arced. Right.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So let's talk about a little bit more about
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: recovery now. And for people that are struggling, that have struggled,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: that just want to like, you know, hear you talk
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: about it. What have you found in all the years
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: of going through this on both sides of the coin?
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: What do you think is the most important messages to
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: get out there?
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I think like in the beginning, it's going to
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: be some of the stuff that I just stated. I
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: think for me and, and my stages of recovery and
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: really entering into that process was I had to be
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: 100% honest with myself. I had to be 100% open.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: I had to be 100% willing. Because look, the best
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: of my decision makings weren't working anymore. And I needed
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: to be in a place where I was able to
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: take direction. And so I think for me, that was
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: one of the biggest things is just being open and honest.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: And I think for those that are struggling out there,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I think the important thing is is you're not alone.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: You know, I think when you look at this, I mean, look,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: addiction is the leading cause of death in America for
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: 50 year old individuals and younger. I mean, this is
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: something that we've, that we've, you know, a lot of
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: people struggle with and, you know, and through hard work
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: and dedication, you can, you can get through the other end. And,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: you know, and I even think for, for people that,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: you know, have the stigma or, you know, you know,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: it's changed and a lot more people are open to,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: to the conversation around it, but there still is stigma
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: around addiction, you know, as, as people struggle with that.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: I think, You know, people need to understand there's no
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: such thing as recreational use of heroin. There's no such
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: thing as recreational use of meth or, you know, drinking
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: a bottle of vodka or, you know, doing what these
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: people have to go through. So I think it's really
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: important for people to understand that, you know, look, this
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: is a disease. It's primary. It's chronic. It's progressive. And
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: it's fatal if it's untreated. And look at what it's
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: done to our society. And just look how many people
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: are struggling with it. And so... again, there's, there's so
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: much to talk about on it, but again, as if
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: people are in it right now, I think the best
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: thing that you can do is, is open up and
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: talk to somebody about it and, and, and, you know,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: ask for guidance, ask for direction. And I think that's
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: the thing too, is so many people have struggled with
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: it that, It's like even when I'm out and I'm
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: having a conversation with somebody, you know, just talking about
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: sobriety or my recovery or something that, you know, I'm
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: involved in or I'm doing like, oh, my God, no,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: my my brother's, you know, in recovery right now. Like,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: do you have any insight? It's just amazing how much
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: more open people are coming around it. So I think
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: starting the conversation, you know, I think that's that's really
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: important as a as a talking point.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: How would you say that people know that they have
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: a problem? Like, you know, does it have to be
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: that you're blacking out or you can't parent or you're
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: not showing up? Or is it like, you know, enough
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: is enough and too much is too much? Like, how
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: would you categorize that?
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: So I don't when I talk to people now, I'm
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: not like I don't ask them like, hey, are you
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: an alcoholic or hey, are you an addict? You know,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: I look at them. And I have them, you know,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: process one really important question. It could be with drugs.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: It could be with alcohol. It could be with work.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: It could be with relationships. Whatever it may be, I say, hey, look,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I want you to think about this and ask yourself,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: is this adding or subtracting from this one life that
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: you have to live? And I want you to sit
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: with it. I want an answer right now. I want
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: you to literally process that. And then you come back
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: and talk.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. they've more
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Dunaidial.
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Lift?
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Please. You going past Kimmage?
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: No.
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Me if that's something that, you know, that you honestly
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: can say that it's adding to your life or if
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: it's subtracting. And 99% of the time when I'm having
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: a conversation around somebody that is, that, that I'm, that
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: is struggling, it's, they come back and they go, this
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: is obviously not adding to my life because it could be,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: there's so many different types of alcoholics. There's so many
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: different types of addicts. You know, I know people that,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: that drink once, once a year and they can be
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: qualified as an alcoholic. It's because it's not what they're consuming.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: It's what, it's not how much they're consuming. It's, it's
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: what it does to them when they drink. Um, and
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: so it's, it's, there's so many different layers to this.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: It's such a multifaceted thing. And, um, again, it's because
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: people can quantify like, you know, I, I, I don't
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: get in trouble by the law. I, I, you know,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I only drink, you know, three, you know, a few
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: drinks here or there, but it's, it's more of what
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: is it doing to you? And that's the way I
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: look at it. You know what I mean? Cause there's,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: there's a social norm around it. And I'm not somebody
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: that's against people that can enjoy themselves. My wife drinks,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? But it's, It doesn't debilitate
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: her life in any way, shape, or form. I also
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: think people that don't struggle, like when I met my
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: wife as a prime example of somebody that has no
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: dependency on alcohol, she's like, I'm just going to stop
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: drinking for a year to support you. That's what a
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: normal person should be able to do. They could take
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: it or leave it. But, again, mass media and the
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: way that culture looks at things, and obviously it's work because,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: you know, they associate having fun and everything is around
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: having drinks and things like that, which unfortunately is not
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: the truth. You can have a pretty incredible life without it. Yeah.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, in my experience, you know, I have
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: found that there are things that prevent you from– being
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: able to function properly. And that's, it doesn't actually, like
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: you're saying, doesn't have to be drinking excessively or whatever, but.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: I had a conversation with you maybe four years ago
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: now where I was at a point where I had
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: lost all sense of self. I did not know where
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I was going. I was depressed. I needed help and
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what kind of help I needed. And
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: you helped me get into the meadows. And it wasn't
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: because of substance. It was because I was dealing with
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: like almost like a midlife crisis, but because of so
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: much PTSD I had from different experiences I had had
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: that I hadn't dealt with. And so I kind of
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: want to talk about that, like mental health for a second,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: because people can get to a point where they're not
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: necessarily abusing, but they're like making choices that are just
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: not conducive to living a happy life. And I got
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: to that point and you were the one who kind
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: of gave me a lift up. And I think after that,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: it's up to you to continue to make those decisions
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: or take the tools that you get and figure it out.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: But I just want to also be clear, it doesn't
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: have to be, you know, we're not just talking about
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: people that are cocaine addicts, heroin addicts, alcoholics. It's for
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: people that can't function because something is going on and
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: they're not on the right path. Do you agree with that?
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. I mean, mental health is a very debilitating,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: you know, place to be, especially when you're struggling with things.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: I was actually going to kind of flip the script
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: maybe from a high level and see, you know, you
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: wanted to maybe bullet point some of those things that
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: you were going through to bring context and light to this,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: because like you're saying, like, I mean, whether it's alcohol
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: for me or whether it's, you know, emotional stuff for you, it's, it's,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: it kind of same painting, different colors. You know, you're
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: in a place where we're at the same spot of, of, of, of,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: of loss of direction. Right. I mean, and we're at
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: a place of, of, of losing ourselves. And so I
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: was thinking maybe you could even, you know, share just
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: a little bit on that and we can talk about that. Yeah.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: But just while I'm thinking about it, it all comes
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: back to what happened or what are you going through
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: that you're not dealing with? That's making you feel these
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: ways or making you act out in a certain way.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: And I hadn't at that point, um, It was like 2019.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I had just closed my business, which was a huge
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: sense of my identity. I was having a very hard
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: time like figuring out how to get over a stigma
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: that had, you know, I had with my name for
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: many years and I could not. find my way. I
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: just was really having a hard time, you know, following through,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: making decisions. And so my point is, is that because
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I hadn't dealt with things that had happened years before,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I think it was preventing me from living in the
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: present and figuring out how to walk into my future
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: in a very clean, clear-headed way. And I, you get
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: to a point, and I can attest because I was
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: there those days with you on the call, like, Jason,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. Like it's bringing me
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: to tears. I don't know what to do. I need
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: you because if I don't have you, I have, I'm
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: going to sit here and like just deteriorate. And I
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily, I mean, I may have been, I think
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I might've gotten to the point where I, I didn't
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: know any other option. I was like, why am I
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: even here? Um, and I needed that like hand to
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: hold and someone to be like, okay, this is normal.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: You can get out of it, but like you need,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: you need a little help and that's okay to get help.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: And I think there was a lot of shame that
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: went with it and just not understanding. And I think
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: that's like normal. People need to know that's normal.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think the biggest thing that you're
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: touching on, too, and is when you by expressing vulnerability,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: it creates humility. Right. And so when you opened up
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: and when you started to share those types of things
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: with me, it allotted me to be able to be
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: to remind me where some of the things that I've
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: gone through and to create that sense of connectivity with
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: you to know that you're in a safe place and
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: that there's there is a way out. And we get lost,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, it doesn't matter if we're 12, 13,
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: you know, 35, 40, you know, 60 or 65. I mean,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: it's people go through different scenarios and different stages of
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: life and things happen. And so I think like with
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: what you're talking about, though, what I'm taking away from it,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: like one of the biggest things for you to get
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: you to a place to be able to get guidance
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: and direction and the help that you needed was you
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: opened up about it. I think that's like, again, going
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: back to the first indicated step, right? Yeah. Um, but
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: after that, I mean, I'd be curious as well, kind
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: of what was the big, the big changing factor for
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: you after, you know, we'd communicated after you'd gotten help,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: what was like kind of one of the big, the
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: big aha moments for you to break through that?
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I think I had to do a lot of work
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: on why I was living in such shame, like why
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I had such self-loathing and the self-worth wasn't there. And also,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I struggled at that moment because I didn't have something
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: tangible to be like, I'm drinking too much, so I
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: need help. Or I'm... doing X, Y, Z. So I
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: felt like I didn't have a label on it kind
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: of when I went back and I had people to
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: talk to. And I, you know, started to read some
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: books that were really important and, and talk to people
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: that had been through it. You know, I feel like
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: everyone acts out in their own way. It could be addiction.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: It could be sex addiction, love addiction, you know, shopping addiction,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. But when you get to the heart
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: of it, it's about something you're not dealing with or
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: something you feel bad. For me, there was a lot
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: of shame that went with stuff. And I couldn't move
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: through it until I forgave myself. And until I was like, listen, okay,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: you can't live in the moment that happened in the past.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: You can... you know, atone for it. You can make
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: amends with it, but you have to move forward. You
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: cannot keep living in the past, like reliving this moment.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: It's terrible. So I had to do that for myself.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: There's a big difference between dwelling on the past and, and, and,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: or learning from it. Right. And I think when you
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: dwell on it and you sit in it, I mean,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: you stay stagnant versus learning from that opportunity because look,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: all great change proceeds through chaos. And I think when
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: you can look at that, understand what's happening and, uh, and,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: and have direction, you know, out of there, like how
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: I live my life today around things, especially when things
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: come up that are challenging and there's trials and tribulations. I,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: it's called the triple a modality. It's awareness, acceptance, and action.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: If you're not aware of what's going on, you can't
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: accept it. If you can't accept it, you can't take action.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: And so I implement that in my life on, on,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: on a daily basis. Um, but as, as I continue
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: to grow and it's, as I've continued to grow, it's
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: funny to see, you know, as I'm still growing, um,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: it's stuff from the past will resurface that I have
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: to work on to continue to better myself. Right. Because again, is,
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: is as I'm unpacking certain things will start to, to surface. And,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: and so it's, It's a process. You know what I mean?
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: It's not like.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: And as both of our good friend Tim Story has
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: said many times, you know, I really was an example
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: of somebody who was living as a discount version of
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: myself because I couldn't get out of these mistakes I
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: had made. And I really needed to do the work
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: to figure out, you know... You know, to figure out
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: that it's OK that you make mistakes, you have to
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: make mistakes, you have to learn from them. And that's
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: like part of life. Like if everything was great and
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: terrific and you made no mistakes and you were perfect,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't know the difference, you know, and you have
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: to learn from them. But also, I think it's really
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: hard for people when they've been doing well and then
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: they have a setback and they're like, oh, my God,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: I can't start over. I made all this headway and
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: now it has to be day one again. And I
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: think that that also creates a lot of shame in people.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: It creates a lot of self-loathing in people. But I
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: feel like it's important for people to know that that's
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: like part of life and that's OK. And it's OK
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: to learn from those mistakes as long as it gets
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: less and less and less. And then something we learned
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: in or I learned in celebrity rehab that is part
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: of AA is that you just have to show up
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: and you have to take it day by day. You
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: can't just like assume everything's going to be better for
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: the rest of your life in the future. You have
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: to literally live for today. And that's what I learned
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: from that experience. at the Meadows at, you know, being
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: on celebrity rehab too. And then, you know, having conversations
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: with people like you or Tim story, um, and getting
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: myself back on track, um, and believing in myself. I mean,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: you know, realizing self-worth I think is so important and
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: finding your purpose. I have, I've found that once you
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: find your purpose, things get much easier in life and
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: it's so hard to find it. But once you find it,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: it's like almost smooth sailing, you know?
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. I mean, look, a setback is the
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: greatest opportunity for growth. You know, it's something that I've
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: learned and it's something that is true to my life.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's funny, all these things that I've gone
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: through in my life have allowed me the opportunity to
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: find my purpose and my passion. You know, it's like
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: my mess has become my message. And it's interesting to see,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: you know, all those things I experienced and all the
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: things I had walked through. uh, or for, for me
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: to help identify what it is I was going to
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: do down the road. And, you know, like I'm, I'm
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: so grateful for, for everything. I mean, look, I wouldn't
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: want to relive it, uh, by any means. It was
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: a very, a very, very trying time, but I'm very
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: grateful that I made it through it, you know, and, um,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: but I'm on the other end to be able to,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: to share about it because again, as if, if I'm
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: able to relate or connect this to one person, that's,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: That's that's my job is done, you know, and I
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: feel like I'm able to do that on a, you know,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: on a daily basis. I feel like that's something that
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate and grateful to have the opportunity to
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: be able to do that and be able to share
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: my experience, my strength and my hope and, you know,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: have it be able to connect or relate to somebody
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: so that they can do it for themselves.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I'm curious if more people come up to you now
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: for the work that you're doing now and connecting with
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: you that way, or if they're still talking to you
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: about episodes and the Hills or Laguna and wanting to
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: talk to you about that.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I get a lot more people that come up now
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: for the work I do now. which is, which is
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: awesome because it's like, I mean, you know, it's, it's
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: by no means is it what it used to be, but, uh,
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: you know, when people there's, there's obviously people that are
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: still fans of the show. Um, um, but it's, it's
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: amazing to see that, you know, more people come up
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: and just there, even, even if it's a related to
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: the show, they're just like, it's amazing to see how
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: you've turned your life around or you have such a
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: beautiful family and, and just, it's, it's, it's those types
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: of things, which, which is awesome. Um, you know, but, uh,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: I love what I do today, and I love the
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: work that I do, and I love being able to
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: help people. I mean, there's nothing greater than giving back
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: and not looking for anything in return. And probably being.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Able to witness the change in people you touch. That's
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: got to be really rewarding.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: It's the most incredible thing. I mean, even with you,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: like just four years ago, the phone calls that we
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: were having, which, you know, again, is a very– vulnerable
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: place but to see where you are now it's it's
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: incredible and to be able to witness that on you
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: know people literally are have lost everything lost you know
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: you think of what you can think of and to
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: be able to see that journey from day one to
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: you know 30 60 90 six months a year out
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: if they stick with it and to see how their
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: life literally starts to develop and form and transition again
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: it's it's amazing um there there's nothing better than that
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: to to see the growth.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that you've gotten to work with some
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: of your mentors, Dr. Drew, some of the other people
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: you mentioned. Now you're involved in something called Change Your
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Brain Foundation with Dr.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: Amen.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Is that how you pronounce it?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So now I, through all these years of doing,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: worked in substance abuse for, geez, like 12 years. And after, again,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: doing more work, I still see a therapist on a
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: weekly basis and have for years. And uh, you know,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: as more of the uncovering and discovery is, is starting
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: to come up, I can see again, going back to
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: how we even initiated and started this conversation today, that
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff that I struggled with were,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: were mental health issues and things. And so, um, I got, uh, more,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: more interested in and involved around that. And I had the, uh,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: opportunity to connect with Dr. Daniel Amen. I actually did
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: his show, scan my brain. Um, you know, I think
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: it was about like a year and a half ago.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Now we ended up hitting it off, connecting and, um, uh,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: ended up becoming, becoming buddies. He asked me to host, uh,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: his carpet for him and Tim and I to Tim
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: story and I to host his carpet for his, his
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: big gala that he was doing for the change of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: brain foundation. And, um, uh, so we did that and then,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: you know, took a little bit of time and gone by.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: And then I started talking to, to the CMO over there,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Christine Perkins. And they're like, Hey, would you have any
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: interest in, in actually running the foundation? And so, uh,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: So I took that on, but it's been absolutely incredible
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: to work with somebody like Dr. Amen, who's really changing
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: the way that we look at mental health. It's ending
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: mental illness through a revolution in brain health is the
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: way that they look at that. And I mean, he's
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: changing the way that we look at it. I mean,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: it's crazy when he brought it up to me. You know,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: that mental health is one of the only medical professions
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: that they don't look at the actual organ that they
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: treat being the brain, right? So if you have heart
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: disease or if you have something wrong with your lungs
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: or your kidneys, they're going to do an MRI or
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: a CAT scan on that actual organ versus mental health.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: All they've done for the last 150 years is cluster
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: symptoms and throw medication at it. And so what he's
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: done and is focusing on is actually on the brain scans,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: inspect imaging and being able to help people uncover and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: discover what it is that they are going through and
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: the issues that they're facing to have the best course
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: of treatment when they come out. So he's the one
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: that actually identified that I had pandas, which is incredible.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: So when I did his show, he was able to
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: uncover that. But, yeah, it's been awesome working there. The
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: three things that we focus on at the Change Your
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Brain Foundation are research, education, and scholarships. And so the
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: scholarship piece is awesome for those that are struggling but
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: don't have the means to get the help that they need.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: We provide comprehensive assessments, brain scans, diagnosis, and treatment plans
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: for these individuals to get them on the right track
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: and on the right course to help deal with what
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: they're struggling with. Right.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. I know we've talked a lot about this,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: but what would you say is like one thing that
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: is the most misunderstood thing about addiction or recovery? For me,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: just thinking about it, I would think that one of
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: the things is that, you know, a lot of times
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: what you talked about earlier, there's a stigma that goes
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: with it, that these people are sick, they can't be helped,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: they'll always have some problem to fall back on. But
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, these people should not be counted out
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: because they're They're strong, resilient people. So for you.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Tell you right now is people think it's a choice.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: It's not like I woke up and I'm like, I
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: can't wait to see how I'm going to fuck my
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: day up today. I'm going to ruin this relationship, crash
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: this car, go burn this building down. And there's a
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: much deeper conversation to that, right? Like right now, actively
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: arresting the disease, completely in stabilization. Like I have– right
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: now for me to make a decision to go drink, yes,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: that would be a choice that I'm making. But when
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: we are active in addiction and you're in the depths
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: of it, you lose all the rights to make your
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: own decisions. I mean you literally– neurologically, I mean you
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: can't function or operate correctly. And so people think that
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: it's a choice. Louie, come here. My dog is getting excited. Um,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: for people to think that, that it's a choice is, is, is, is, um,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest misconceptions.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: And, and I'm just curious now that you talked about this,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: when you're having a really bad day, you, Jason, what
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: do you do to choose something different as opposed to
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: being like, fuck this, I'm going to go drink.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: So great question, Rachel. I think the biggest thing is,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: and I learned this through having kids, is I don't
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: allow myself to get to a place like that because
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: I believe structure and consistency create safety. And so I
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: have a program on a daily basis that I do.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: And so, I mean, just from a high level every morning,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: you know, when I wake up, I do a morning meditation.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: I do my prayer, read my Jesus Calling book. I
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: do a gratitude list of three things I'm grateful for,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: not only what, but why. I send that off to
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: a few other guys that are sober as well. Then
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: after that, I end up going To the gym, sometimes,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: some days it's Bible study for me. Again, some days
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: during the week, once a week I have therapy. But
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: I have a pretty regimented schedule that I don't deviate from.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: And then I go about my day. And then, again,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: as this stuff comes up, I reach out to individuals.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: I talk. I communicate.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: You have a network that you've created of really good people.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: I have really amazing mentors that I have in my life.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: But also to end my day is after I go
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: through this, one of the biggest things that I love
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: doing is actually taking an inventory of my day and
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: identifying not only the areas that I was wrong and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: that I needed to improve upon, but also identifying the
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: things that I did well. Um, and so once I
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: complete that though, and I actually finished that list, I
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: put my head to that pillow and that day's over.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: And so when I wake up the next morning, I
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: have a fresh start. And so it took a long
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: time to, it takes, you know, it's, it takes, it
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: takes time to, to put that together. But again, that
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: I want to be very clear that doesn't mitigate or,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: you know, uh, take away from me having a horrible day,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: but that foundational setup is, a lot for when stuff
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: does shit hits the fan, I'm in a much safer
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: place to be able to deal with it and be
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: in a place to have the tools and stuff to
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: do that. Because if I don't have those things in play,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: cause look, relapse is also part of my story. I mean,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: after having four and a half years of sobriety, I
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: went out really gnarly, uh, for on and off for,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: for two, three years on Adderall. And there's a whole, there's,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: we don't have time to even talk about that, but
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: I can look back and I can see when I'd relapsed,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: all the things that I had done to get me
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: to that place, I stopped doing. And so like now
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: it's something that's a non-negotiable and it's something that like
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: my sobriety, God and sobriety for me have to be
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: my number one priorities. If I don't have those in order,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: nothing else falls into place. If that gets deviated from,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: everything else is lost. Yeah.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: And it sounds to me like that clearly helps you
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: become a better person. But I can see that probably
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: sets you up for being a better person for other people,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: a better father, a better husband, better son, because that
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: allows you that, you know, that path to really to
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: really continue on that as opposed to deviate and not
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: be reliable to those people. And being reliable, I think,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: is most important. um, to them. My last question to
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: you is, would you ever do another reality show, especially
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: now that you live in Nashville? Um, you have all these,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: you know, fun, famous friends over there. You guys could
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: do a whole nother version of Nashville.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Oh God. You know, no, I, I, the only other
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: type of TV show or thing that I would do
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: is if it had to do around mental health or addiction,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: like that's the, probably the only thing that I'd ever
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: do again. Um, it's, I don't know. I just feel
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: like I'm in a place in my life where that's,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: if it was something to do with that, I could
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: get involved, but, uh, to redo like Laguna or the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Hills or do different things like that. I, I, I
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: don't think that I would do that again.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: Where can people find you if they want to get
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: ahold of you, if they want to ask you more questions,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: if they want to learn more about recovery?
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Best place is probably Instagram, which is just Jason Waller. Awesome.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: And you read your DMs? I do.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: I try as best I can to get back to them,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: but sometimes it's overwhelming.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: That's awesome that you're accessible to people if they want
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: to reach out. So that's amazing. Jason, thank you so much.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy to reconnect with you. I hope we
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: stay in touch privately. I would love to. And the
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: next time I come to Nashville, I'm coming to see
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: you and finally meet your beautiful wife.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Tell her I love you. 100%. Thank you for having me.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: And your child.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: Okay. Thank you. Love you.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: to the show and give us a five-star rating and review.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: You can support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: slash misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. Do you have ideas for
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: the show or want to reach out? Email us at
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: info misunderstood podcast at gmail.com that's spelled m-i-s-s understood thank
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: you so much and i'll see you next time.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful where did you end up going
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: for it.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that data's connections with they've more cars
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch what's it called.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: It's dune adl where Dunediel? There's an accent on the E.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundiel Cars.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: Lift?
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: Please.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: You going past Kimmage?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage!
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 5: Dundiel Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.