Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Guest Host: Jenny Hughes, PhD. Decolonizing Trauma Therapy through Safety and Attunement

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Guest Host: Jenny Hughes, PhD. Decolonizing Trauma Therapy through Safety and Attunement · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the special guest host series of The Trauma
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Therapist Podcast, where I'm going to be handing over the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: mic to some incredible guest hosts. In each episode, you'll
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: hear fresh perspectives and unique insights to inform and inspire
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: you in all the while keeping the heart of this
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  Speaker 1: podcast alive. So sit back and enjoy today. Very excited.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: That is my guest host, doctor Jenny Hughes.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Jenny's a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in trauma. She's also
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: the founder of the Brave Trauma Therapist Collective as well
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: as the author of the PTSD Recovery Workbook. I just
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  Speaker 2: really want to thank her for being here, honored to
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  Speaker 2: have her take part, and you can learn more about
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  Speaker 2: her at Brave providers dot com. All right, Jenny, take
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: it away.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: All right, I've four three two one. Welcome to The
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Trauma Therapist Podcast with Guy mcpheerson. I am your guest host,
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Jenny Hughes, trauma therapist and founder of the Brave Trauma
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Therapist Collective, and I am so excited to be with
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: you this week. Today I am joined with my guest
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Tawanna Wolfolk, a licensed Clinical social worker EMDR consultant in training,
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: founder of Sacred Ground Institute and doula for the soul,
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  Speaker 3: and my dear friend, confidant and guide.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: Welcome Tojuana.
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: Heymet can bring me to dear every time. From Hello, Hello,
• 1:45
  Speaker 5: my dear Jenny, guy and guests and community.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being with us, Tuana, and
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: for sharing this opportunity with me.
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: We have so much to talk about.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: And you and I could talk for ages about each
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: of these different things I'm going to ask you about,
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  Speaker 3: so we're gonna do our best to keep it short.
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: I got it. Hopefully will come back for a part two,
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: maybe exactly.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: And you know, I have a number of topics to
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  Speaker 3: bring up together today, but I really want to start by.
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  Speaker 4: Talking about safety. So you have been such an.
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  Speaker 3: Incredible teacher for me around the concept of safety and
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: have taught me things above and beyond what any seminal
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  Speaker 3: works out there are, and it has had such a
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: profound impact on my work as a trauma therapist, as
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: someone who helps survivors of trauma and PTSD, who walks
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  Speaker 3: alongside them and also with fellow trauma therapists.
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  Speaker 4: And I can't know what I know now, and.
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  Speaker 3: So I really want to know just kind of from
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  Speaker 3: you and your brain and body. First of all, what's
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: coming up as I share that, and then we can
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: go from there.
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: Guy, don't get me. I'm going to try to be
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: good with my expletives split damn it. That's when it
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: comes up. I'm going to sound like a broken record,
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: but it's going to be new maybe for our audience,
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  Speaker 5: our dear community. What comes up for me is WHOA,
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: this got me way more than I expected. WHOA. I'm
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: just gonna sure.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: We have plenty of space and time k.
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: Attunement being seen, hurt, felt, and understood. You know. First
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: it was Victory Frankel, Then it was miss Coleman. Then
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  Speaker 5: it was Sheila Hubbard Spittler. Then it was Mary Lesser
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  Speaker 5: who left me, left this earth and her legacy this year. Yeah,
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  Speaker 5: and then it was you, who I just took a
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: leap of faith and invited myself into your world. I
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: just have this knack for just connect. Then it was
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: a conversation about literally you were just like leaning in
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  Speaker 5: with curiosit any wonder and all. I even had even
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: bought you that yet, but you were already doing it
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  Speaker 5: as an embodied practice in terms about you connected with
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  Speaker 5: me and and you were like, oh, you do that
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  Speaker 5: with your clients, be honest with you. Uh, I think
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  Speaker 5: you need to think a therapist need to hear this.
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: And it was like, I literally I didn't tell you this.
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  Speaker 5: I think I threw up in my mouth because here's
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: the here's the honest truth, my dear Jinny and our
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: lovely audience until until Ginny said that, I'm not even
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: kidding you. I mean at that point it was like
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  Speaker 5: maybe eighteen years I've been in the field or so
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  Speaker 5: now I'm coming into my twenty second year. My clients have.
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  Speaker 6: Been my proof of concept, right, So yeah, I have
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  Speaker 6: the doctor Jenny Hughes okay, who says, oh, you ever
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  Speaker 6: think just doing something with this, you know, just my things,
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  Speaker 6: and I just you know, in tuned, and.
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  Speaker 5: She said, yeah, and you know we're gonna start with
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  Speaker 5: We're gonna start with the Brave yep. So I that's
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  Speaker 5: really what comes up for me is part of our
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  Speaker 5: origin story, but really a part of my origin story,
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  Speaker 5: which in maybe this is healing for me to still do.
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  Speaker 5: But you know, I still have a lot of annihilation
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  Speaker 5: anxiety that comes up around the fact that I will
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  Speaker 5: never go down in the history books because I can't
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  Speaker 5: point to anything that I learned. I can't point to
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  Speaker 5: assist white, heateral, male or female for that I taught myself.
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  Speaker 5: And I always question my worth, my professionalism, my value.
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  Speaker 5: But it's so dissonant because I have my soul babies
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  Speaker 5: who are my clients, right, Because I've chosen to not
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  Speaker 5: mother and father my own children, I've chosen to mother
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  Speaker 5: and father through healing, So my babies alike. When you're
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: writing a book, when you getting on the test stage,
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  Speaker 5: when do you opening this when you like you're really
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: good at breaking down, really heavy duty, like you make
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  Speaker 5: me not feel stupid. They are my proof of concept.
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  Speaker 4: So what is it like for you to hold both
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  Speaker 4: of those true?
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  Speaker 1: Then?
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  Speaker 4: Right? Of this, this this.
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  Speaker 3: Narrative you have of I'm never going to go down
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  Speaker 3: in the history books and all these people saying hello, I'm.
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  Speaker 5: Going down in their history books, and you're saying I'm
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  Speaker 5: going down in your history books because exact I taught
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  Speaker 5: you something. This is what comes up. Yeah, just serpentating
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  Speaker 5: in awe and greed, h and anchor uncertainty. As an
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  Speaker 5: artistic individual, large body individual who struggles with numbers and
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  Speaker 5: learning and moving through spaces and a significant complex trauma
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  Speaker 5: and also medical trauma being a survivor of a high
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  Speaker 5: control group. Yeah, we're holding all that. We all none
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  Speaker 5: of us are immune to this. We are all right.
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  Speaker 5: And yet what it means for doctor Jenny Hughes to say,
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  Speaker 5: I see you, boo, I'm sorry, this new thing come
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  Speaker 5: along and here we are.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, speaking of that part of our origin story,
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  Speaker 3: right and this journey I want to just build on
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  Speaker 3: what we're talking about, please please, and especially in terms
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: of the history book. So first of all, it's like,
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  Speaker 3: who the fuck's history book or are you talking about?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 3: Because there are so many and in my history book.
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  Speaker 3: I can't know the fact that if if you had
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: not reached out to me when I first started Brave,
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  Speaker 3: and we had not been brought together to develop the
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  Speaker 3: friendship and the just the the connection that we have
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  Speaker 3: Brave would be so entirely different, and in not good ways.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, I honored that because that's not east. I mean,
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  Speaker 5: thank you.
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  Speaker 3: I mean yeah, so like for me, if I can
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  Speaker 3: just share with you a little bit more about that,
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  Speaker 3: what I imagine that.
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  Speaker 5: Would be really nourishing. Yeah, thank you, Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I mean you know, you and I do a lot
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: of work together around racial trauma vicarious. You taught me
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  Speaker 3: and mentored me so much in what decolonizing and even
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: not just what it means, but like what it means
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  Speaker 3: and like what it feels like and that is actually experienced,
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  Speaker 3: And if it weren't for all of those teachings and interactions,
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  Speaker 3: I just have this image of like I keep talking
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  Speaker 3: about this, but like buttoned up, little brave right, Like
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: we would be like, oh, well, there's this box and
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: there's that box, and there's this other one, and we're
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  Speaker 3: just gonna.
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  Speaker 4: Stay in all our little boxes and all our little lanes.
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  Speaker 3: And thank god it's not that way, because that just
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  Speaker 3: sounds awful because look at.
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  Speaker 5: Our beautiful loves, our braves, like.
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  Speaker 4: What exactly exactly?
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  Speaker 3: And so that also means that the work that you do,
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  Speaker 3: so you are not only a trauma therapist, you also
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  Speaker 3: provide advanced supervision and consultation. You do incredible embodied work
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  Speaker 3: with anyone that you come into contact with, and you
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  Speaker 3: are also influencing not just individuals but groups. Right there
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  Speaker 3: is like this direct like drop in the pond ripple effect,
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: but in so many places, And what was I listening
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  Speaker 3: to something recently. They were talking about Einstein and like,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: did this experiment where you put all of these stones
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  Speaker 3: on a ruler and he dropped them into a pond
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  Speaker 3: and he watched all of the rings come together.
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  Speaker 4: Right, And I mean.
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  Speaker 3: I say, share, Towana, like that is what is happening,
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  Speaker 3: the impact that you are having on this world. It's
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  Speaker 3: all of these rings that are coming together and expanding
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  Speaker 3: at the same time, and it's just so so cool.
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  Speaker 5: Di I share what came up for me? Yes, No,
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  Speaker 5: that's it, because I need to bring in my soul
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  Speaker 5: baby's words.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Quote unquote from a dear therapist who has lived embodied
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: experience with OCD. You know has an OCD therapist, but
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  Speaker 5: something was missing found a little on me. Said the
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  Speaker 5: other day, she said, Oh I get it, Tea. We
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  Speaker 5: are like a family, but like I don't mean in
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  Speaker 5: that toxic positivity way. I mean like they were like
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  Speaker 5: we are a part. Like I get it. We are
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  Speaker 5: in a solar system. I literally feel, oh, I was
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  Speaker 5: gonna make me talk. I feel like I have brothers
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  Speaker 5: and sisters. The way that you teach through storytelling, the
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  Speaker 5: interconnectedness that like my healing is a gift that gives
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  Speaker 5: to the point where Mama's coming into healing for a
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  Speaker 5: second chance at mothering my dear client. How about that,
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  Speaker 5: they go, I couldn't imagine anybody else because I don't
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  Speaker 5: know if anyone else is going to on their own biases,
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  Speaker 5: probably as a cis white person talking with my mama. Yeah,
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  Speaker 5: I need some I need right that she said. So
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  Speaker 5: when you talk about the interconnectedness of those ripples and
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  Speaker 5: the blue, that's literally what I and and literally not
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  Speaker 5: even twenty eight hours later, another client saying the same thing.
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  Speaker 5: We're like to send the moon and the stars and
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  Speaker 5: we all like wow, tee, like how do how did you?
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: I didn't want to say, but they said, like how
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  Speaker 5: did you do it? Like? How do you do that? Yeah?
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  Speaker 5: So that's what again now my proof of concept and
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  Speaker 5: it just aligns with what you share beautifully shared there.
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  Speaker 5: Curious what you hear in that if that was a need?
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  Speaker 4: What keeps coming up for me is.
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  Speaker 3: Just as we're thinking about these ripple effects, right, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: what is something that the trauma therapists who are listening
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  Speaker 3: to this, what is something if they're inspired, what can
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  Speaker 3: they start doing in their practice with their dear clients
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  Speaker 3: to be more in the room, to be more whatever
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  Speaker 3: it is embodied, or to be more human. Sometimes we
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: just need that invitation, like, is there one major takeaway,
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  Speaker 3: one thing that you would want the listeners to just
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  Speaker 3: experiment with.
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  Speaker 5: Oh boy, I had a feeling you. I I had
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  Speaker 5: a feeling you were going to ask some version of this,
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: and I was like, Tier, are you going to do it?
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  Speaker 5: Are you going to say it? If it? I am
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: don't know if we're going to have this opportunity again.
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  Speaker 5: So I don't know how this is going to land
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  Speaker 5: for you, for our dear listeners. But you asked me bravely.
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  Speaker 5: I'm going to answer bravely. And I'm not saying anyone
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  Speaker 5: has to adopt this, but you asked me, so I'm
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  Speaker 5: gonna share it, and it's what I share with anybody
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  Speaker 5: that is brave enough to step into a joint communal
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  Speaker 5: space of healing and mutual aid and healthy interdependence. Have
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: you been brave enough to sit with the dark shadow
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  Speaker 5: side and anxile parts of yourself until the waves of
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: repulsion and self hatred and internalized biases and all the
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  Speaker 5: isms have melted away and transformed into beauty full, integrated, anchored, loved,
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  Speaker 5: worthy parts of you that get to show themselves in
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  Speaker 5: the world. That is what my dear colleagues and friends
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  Speaker 5: can do, and you don't. This is not just for
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: trauma therapist. I sat on a gender affirming provider's panel
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  Speaker 5: a couple of weeks ago. I would say the same
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  Speaker 5: thing any of us provide to educators, our clergy, our
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: men and women and uniform We can only take people,
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: our loved ones, our partners, our children, the people that
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: are looking up to us. We can only take them
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: as far as we've gone to get and be with
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: and like in love and equity and safety, the highest
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  Speaker 5: safety and honor. When we get them back and we
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: do our work, and it can be done in tandem.
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  Speaker 5: We don't go into exile and write and then here
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  Speaker 5: we go. No, as a dear supervisor said to me bravely,
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  Speaker 5: and it was the most loving thing anyone's ever said
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  Speaker 5: to me, she said, Tea, No, Mama, tea, it is
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  Speaker 5: scary how I've seen. I just saw the reel you
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  Speaker 5: posted the other day on IG I said, go ahead, baby,
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  Speaker 5: say it. I know, I know, I've been waiting for
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: someone to bravely call a thing a thing. She was like, whoa,
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: it is scary your transformation. She said, Wow, it's not
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: even about the weight loss, but it's just like seeing
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: like you shine and the fact that like you didn't
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: take down old content. You are just good. You are
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: just just literally seeing she and went and she literally,
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: it's it's it's actually it's scary. I said, thank you,
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: thank you, thank you. That is why you just said
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: why people don't heal, why people don't change because I
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: look different.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I chance literally literally everything else that's the inside.
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  Speaker 5: But that's that. So I know that was a lot,
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  Speaker 5: but I think this will help make it more cellular
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  Speaker 5: for our dear community of listeners and viewers. Can you,
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: in your version tell me what you heard me say.
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's more than just do your own work, right.
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, thank you for thank you for saying that,
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: because I hear that a lot I think against each other.
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  Speaker 3: Depending on how it is delivered, can feel very very dangerous, right,
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  Speaker 3: And that is not what you're saying. What you're saying
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: is that in order to be the best person that
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: we can for others, and that we want to be,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: and that we want to yes, we deserve to have
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: opportunities to be able to look at each of those
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: different parts of ourselves and not even I don't think
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  Speaker 3: to change.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Them, but to aage that they exist.
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  Speaker 3: To honor their purpose, the role that they play us,
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  Speaker 3: so that when those parts interact with each other and
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: then anyone else in our life, whether we are a
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  Speaker 3: trauma therapist or like you said, whoever you know in.
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: That right, a municipal worker, doesn't make I was just
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  Speaker 5: thinking that.
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  Speaker 3: I was like, the house next door is under construction.
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  Speaker 3: I'm like the guys that are working their butts.
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: Off every day to read believe it. You better believe
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: it so that.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: When we come into contact with each other, we can
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: just be.
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  Speaker 5: Human literally literally, because we already did the heart hardest
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: thing that is literally and as a reproductive health you know, specialist,
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  Speaker 5: and just like like just dedicating my lives to creating
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: more ease and equity and removing a pressure systems of
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: oppression around right that right and especially around the intersectionality
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: of behavioral health and medicine. We were born. It is
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: literally it one of the hardest feats we could ever
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: go through is breathing that first breath upon birth. You're
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: a mama, you know that we already did the hardest
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: thing ashe that's it. What if we could really wrap
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: our heads around that that we literally it is a
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: miracle that we are here. Yeah, why the hell do
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: we make it that much harder for ourselves and each other?
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: Like we literally already did, So we don't There's no
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: need to be judge, jury, defender, prosecutor victim. All we
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: get to do is bear witness, honorable witness.
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  Speaker 4: Yep, that.
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  Speaker 5: Pet yep.
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  Speaker 3: And I think that that for that is the absolute
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: number one takeaway for anyone listening to this. We have
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: already done the most difficult thing in our lives.
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  Speaker 4: And when we are able to.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Really take that in and just acknowledge and honor it,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: that we then can bear witness. We can connect, We
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: can be with each other.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah. So when our dear clients, this is a little
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: trauma speak, when they show up in the office and
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: they do fidgeting and finding an attached cry behavior, which
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: is that pre verbal behavior. Right, we have to communicate somehow,
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: but we've constructed language called Oh, they're being resistant, they're
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: trying to avoid, they're trying to deflect, they're trying to this. No,
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: they are fidgeting and finding an attached crying right, So
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: that might be constantly questioning you. That might be constantly
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: questioning is this going to work? Like? Is you know
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: I'm going to fall to pieces like what if I
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: just felt? Remember that is all about do I deserve
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: a you? Do I deserve a jinny to literally take
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: joy and delight and showing up for me? Am I
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: worthy of her? And am I worthy of feeling better?
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: That is what is coming up. People aren't trying to
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: evade and I mean yes, but so for survival reasons,
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: because we struggle a good thing that doesn't happen for
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  Speaker 5: us literally, which is part of all of our small
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: t trauma wounding ps for people stopping pausing, not being
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: wedded to an agenda and an outcome, and just listening
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: even when they're on the words, but helping to figure
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: out other ways to communicate. That is why most of
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: us are selectively mute and shrink. Yep, that's for part
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: two guy, But.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: That right, yeah, absolutely, that's what happens yep.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: And honoring our our time, right, I think that that
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: is actually a really beautiful connection to the resource that
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: we want to share with everyone listening, right, so perfect. Yes,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: Tauana and I do a lot of work together around
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: supporting therapist helpers. He is really anyone who wants to
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: do the work in navigating and exploring racial trauma and
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: vicarious trauma and the way that those two come together. Yes,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: And part of that is really being clear with ourselves
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: about what it means to be anti racist and anti
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: oppressive in all forms. And that's a really difficult thing
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: to do if you have not sat with yourself first,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: if you haven't had people who can sit there with
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: you too. And so Tawana and I have developed a
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: fillable Google workbook that is free to anyone to help
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: walk you through some of the steps to creating your
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: own anti racism and anti oppression in all form statement.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: This can be something that you can use just for yourself.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be a big thing, if you
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: run a business, a private practice, whatever it may be.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: It can be a really beautiful way to be proud
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: and out loud about these things as well, and to
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: know that it's something that is dynamic and is going
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: to be ever changing as you continue to grow and
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: sit with these different.
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: Shadow parts of yourself into it is meant to it's embodied.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, what else would you like to share about our
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: workbook that's available to people for free?
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: Just I, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled for everyone that gets
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: to be invited to this, and just to just emphasize,
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: it's meant to grow and change as we grow and change.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, yep.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: I just want to thank you, my dear friend, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: thank Guy for this amazing historical opportunity.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing the space with me, and to
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Guy for allowing us this opportunity to share our work
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: and our voices on such a beautiful platform.
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: Yes, thank you and thank you for your service. Jenny,
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: thank you, thank.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: You, Tuana for everyone listening.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: You can find our free anti Racism and Anti Oppression
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: in all forms Statements workbook at Brave Providers dot com
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: backslash Anti Racism. We will link to this in the
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: notes as well, and we will also link to both
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: of our websites so that you can reach out to us.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: And let us know what you think, let us know
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: what you need so that we can connect.
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: That's right, Thank you, thank you so much.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: S