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How Publicists Work · Stuff You Should Know

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from house Stuff Works
0:03
Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
0:12
Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry so Stub. You
0:17
Speaker 1: should know. This is it? Well, that sounded like you're
0:22
Speaker 1: introducing the final episode my voice, this is it feels
0:26
Speaker 1: like it's the final episode. You won't be able to
0:28
Speaker 1: talk anymore. No, I'm getting there. That's not true. You
0:33
Speaker 1: don't know that. How's it going? It's going pretty well? Man.
0:39
Speaker 1: How about with you? I think both of us had
0:42
Speaker 1: a bit of a dark time researching this article. Why well,
0:47
Speaker 1: because and we're gonna get Well, we're gonna get flak.
0:52
Speaker 1: That's a teaser from publicists, because what I learned is
0:57
Speaker 1: that publicists are professional liars. I would say that depends
1:03
Speaker 1: on the circumstance. Well, what do you mean, Well, you're
1:08
Speaker 1: saying they're publicists who don't lie. No, I'm saying it
1:11
Speaker 1: depends on um whether the publicist is going to the
1:15
Speaker 1: media or the media is coming to the publicist, depending
1:18
Speaker 1: on the circumstance. What I am saying is, no matter
1:22
Speaker 1: what who you work for, if you're a publicist, then
1:27
Speaker 1: a percentage of your job will be lying depending on
1:31
Speaker 1: the circumstance. So so Billy Rays lie about something good.
1:35
Speaker 1: Billy ray Cyrus is like, I am going to donate
1:39
Speaker 1: a bunch of time and money to a local homeless shelter.
1:43
Speaker 1: You don't about that. The publicist gets on the horn
1:45
Speaker 1: starts letting everybody know, you guys should come cover this.
1:49
Speaker 1: Billy ray Cyrus goes and does that, and everything's good.
1:52
Speaker 1: Then on the way home, Billy ray Cyrus decides to
1:54
Speaker 1: celebrate by drinking a bucket of tequila and runs his
1:59
Speaker 1: car into a uh whatever. Okay. The publicist then starts
2:06
Speaker 1: getting calls and says he didn't drink a bucket of tequila.
2:11
Speaker 1: That wasn't even happen. That's overstated what really happened with this.
2:15
Speaker 1: So the circumstances depend on the the whether the publicist
2:20
Speaker 1: is or not. Oh yeah, I'm not saying that all
2:23
Speaker 1: publicists do is lie. But I'm saying if you work
2:25
Speaker 1: as a publicist, part of your job is to cover
2:28
Speaker 1: tracks and to lie um and you know that. Don't
2:34
Speaker 1: hate the publicists, hate the system, is what I say. Yeah,
2:36
Speaker 1: they're definitely a part of a larger system. Yeah, a
2:40
Speaker 1: larger system which includes all of us who digest news. Yeah,
2:46
Speaker 1: especially say like entertainment news, that kind of thing. Um,
2:50
Speaker 1: there's like there's a whole there's two. From my understanding,
2:54
Speaker 1: there's two routes a person can take as a celebrity.
2:58
Speaker 1: You can either just go off and be a normal person,
3:02
Speaker 1: and depending on your level, you might have paparazzi following
3:06
Speaker 1: your that kind of stuff. There's once you get to
3:08
Speaker 1: a certain level, it doesn't matter what your decision is,
3:10
Speaker 1: or you can hire a publicist and feed yourself right
3:14
Speaker 1: into that machine to get as much publicity and as
3:17
Speaker 1: much pressed as you possibly can. Yeah. Well, I think
3:21
Speaker 1: any celebrity is going to have a publicist, but it's
3:23
Speaker 1: really a matter of your directive and your goal. I
3:27
Speaker 1: think some of those people like to be like that
3:29
Speaker 1: the old adage there's no such thing as bad publicity. Yeah,
3:32
Speaker 1: I I ran into that that that's more of a
3:35
Speaker 1: PR term, where like, so if you're in the PR,
3:38
Speaker 1: you're probably representing a company or an organization or something
3:42
Speaker 1: like that. A publicist is somebody who typically represents a
3:45
Speaker 1: single person, an artist and author, a musician, um, something
3:51
Speaker 1: like that. That's really the only definition I confined for
3:55
Speaker 1: a publicist, and the the job the goal of the
3:58
Speaker 1: publicist is to you, um, help maintain and promote the
4:03
Speaker 1: public image of that person that they represent. That's right,
4:06
Speaker 1: by um having a good relationship with the media, Yes,
4:11
Speaker 1: that's the publicist. Uh. And by the way, that no,
4:15
Speaker 1: no such thing as bad publicity. I tried to find
4:17
Speaker 1: the origin of that, and the closest thing I could
4:20
Speaker 1: find was P. T. Barnum. But I don't know if
4:23
Speaker 1: that's true. I don't think that's verified. We Twain, Yeah,
4:27
Speaker 1: PT Barnum or Mark Twain. Everybody says Mark Twain saying uh.
4:31
Speaker 1: And I don't think that's even true anyway. I think
4:34
Speaker 1: maybe that used to be true, that it was a
4:36
Speaker 1: Mark Twain saying no, that no such thing is bad publicity.
4:39
Speaker 1: I think at one point that may have been sort
4:41
Speaker 1: of true. Yeah, these days there's clearly bad publicity. So
4:47
Speaker 1: you I said the word flak earlier as a teaser, apparently,
4:51
Speaker 1: um too. Flak or a flack is a term originating
4:55
Speaker 1: from Gene Flak, early movie publicist Hollywood, and that's right
5:03
Speaker 1: f l a K to take. Flak is named after
5:07
Speaker 1: a type of German gun in World War Two. A
5:09
Speaker 1: German anti aircraft gun. Two different things, but in this
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Speaker 1: case it is a pejorative term for publicists. They don't
5:16
Speaker 1: like it. Pr flack Yeah, you shouldn't say that to
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Speaker 1: someone that works in PR, or call them a liar.
5:23
Speaker 1: They don't like that either. Um yeah, I looked it up.
5:26
Speaker 1: Apparently it means that like, you can't be trusted, you'll
5:29
Speaker 1: you'll do anything for money. That's what a flackist. And
5:32
Speaker 1: then that's like they one article I read said that's
5:36
Speaker 1: like calling a personal injury attorney an ambulance chaser. Just
5:40
Speaker 1: not a nice term. So there you have it. Uh So,
5:45
Speaker 1: a publicist, like you said, works for their client to
5:49
Speaker 1: make them to get their good deeds out, and too
5:53
Speaker 1: if they don't have good deeds, to spend things to
5:56
Speaker 1: make it look like they do. You know, here, hold
5:59
Speaker 1: this baby lamp. Yeah, we take your picture exactly, and
6:03
Speaker 1: then they get photographed later eating euros down the block.
6:07
Speaker 1: The two events were totally not connected. No, So the
6:11
Speaker 1: what they do is they pitch ideas to the media
6:15
Speaker 1: and they probably have to be good writers themselves because
6:19
Speaker 1: the press release oftentimes is a starting point. But press releases,
6:24
Speaker 1: as we know, I can get lost in the shuffle
6:28
Speaker 1: and never see the light of day. Yeah, it seems
6:30
Speaker 1: like a huge wasted time. It can be, but uh,
6:34
Speaker 1: if you have a good publicist, um, they will be
6:37
Speaker 1: well connected to the media to ensure that that uh
6:40
Speaker 1: publicity blast is not lost, right exactly. So there's um,
6:45
Speaker 1: there's direction one, which is from the publicists to the media,
6:50
Speaker 1: and the publicist is going to have all these contacts
6:53
Speaker 1: with different entertainment reporters and business reporters and anybody that
6:58
Speaker 1: can possibly run the story. Yeah, anybody that could possibly
7:01
Speaker 1: run a story on um their client rights. And they'll say, um,
7:08
Speaker 1: Billy Ray is going to donate some money. He just
7:12
Speaker 1: seems like the type who would donate a bunch of
7:14
Speaker 1: money to a homeless shelter and go down there himself
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Speaker 1: and help out. So Billy Ray is going to be
7:19
Speaker 1: down there. Plus it's it's it rolls off the tongue,
7:21
Speaker 1: Billy Ray. Um, So why don't you send one of
7:26
Speaker 1: your cover reporters down and and let's get some coverage
7:29
Speaker 1: for this. And since their friends, since these people have
7:33
Speaker 1: worked together for decades, now this reporter and this your
7:36
Speaker 1: your publicist. The reporter actually might respond and show up
7:41
Speaker 1: or the editor or the news producer, whoever the contact is.
7:45
Speaker 1: That's great, Like that's you hired a good publicist and
7:48
Speaker 1: now this story is going to make it out there
7:51
Speaker 1: because they didn't just write up a press release with
7:54
Speaker 1: a bunch of exclamation points in the headline and facts
7:56
Speaker 1: it to every media outlet they could find and get
8:00
Speaker 1: your response. Yes, so good. A publicist is only as
8:02
Speaker 1: good as their relationships, I think. Um. The other way
8:06
Speaker 1: on that street that you were talking about is from
8:09
Speaker 1: the journalists fact to the publicist. If they hear I
8:12
Speaker 1: heard Billy ray Cyrus drink a bucket of tequila and
8:15
Speaker 1: ran over a prostitute with his car, they will then
8:18
Speaker 1: get in touch with the publicist and then they go jack, buddy, Hey,
8:22
Speaker 1: we go back a long way. What I lie to you?
8:25
Speaker 1: What I lie to you? Uh So that's how that goes,
8:30
Speaker 1: and they want they will be more forthcoming with people
8:35
Speaker 1: who have it's a scratch your back, you scratch my
8:37
Speaker 1: type of scenario. Yeah, like that reporter that actually showed
8:40
Speaker 1: up at the homeless shelter and covered it and made
8:42
Speaker 1: a nice piece and everything. I'll give you the scoop.
8:45
Speaker 1: When that guy calls, he's he's going to get the
8:47
Speaker 1: better treatment from the publicist than somebody who ignored the
8:51
Speaker 1: pitch before. That's right, um scratching a lot of back
8:56
Speaker 1: scratchings in the machine. I've seen a lot more women
8:59
Speaker 1: as bblicists and men, and I've always wonder why that
9:02
Speaker 1: it's true. I don't know that that is true. In
9:04
Speaker 1: researching this, I saw about an equal amount. I used
9:07
Speaker 1: to think that as well, Um, but it seems like
9:09
Speaker 1: there's an equal amount these days. It seems like every
9:11
Speaker 1: publicist I've ever known has been a woman. And I
9:14
Speaker 1: just figured just because women maybe more level headed and
9:18
Speaker 1: uh more able to like smooth out a situation has
9:22
Speaker 1: some big dumb guy. Um, but I guess the guys
9:26
Speaker 1: who were publicists aren't big dumb guys like me. I'd
9:28
Speaker 1: be a bad publicist. Oh yeah, So what would your
9:32
Speaker 1: response to be if somebody called to find out what
9:35
Speaker 1: stupid thing you're your client did or why they did
9:38
Speaker 1: some stupid thing. I'd say, you know, what's really none
9:40
Speaker 1: none of your business, bad publicist. Yeah well that was
9:46
Speaker 1: something I ran across, as you know, saying something like
9:50
Speaker 1: my client needs to privacy respected right now, we just
9:53
Speaker 1: immediately shut down a relationship that you've cultivated over the years.
9:58
Speaker 1: Do you have to give as a publicist you are
10:00
Speaker 1: like you, there has to be something that you give,
10:03
Speaker 1: so you better have something that will play kate the reporter,
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Speaker 1: but while also is probably not the truth, because that
10:13
Speaker 1: reporter will go off and write the truth about your client,
10:15
Speaker 1: and your client will have just gotten horrible publicity because
10:18
Speaker 1: of you. It's a balancing act. Yeah, or they'll just
10:21
Speaker 1: say let me send you get back from pet Segal.
10:24
Speaker 1: You like the last one, right, Uh. But publicist may
10:29
Speaker 1: also and it depends people that have a staff of
10:33
Speaker 1: people working for them. Sometimes the lines are blurred on
10:37
Speaker 1: who does what. But a publicist can arrange uh interview
10:42
Speaker 1: requests and set all that stuff up. If you have
10:45
Speaker 1: like a book tour, or your politician or your band
10:48
Speaker 1: with a new album coming out, they might arrange all
10:51
Speaker 1: those interviews, in which case they are prepping two things.
10:55
Speaker 1: They are prepping the interviewer saying you can't ask about
10:59
Speaker 1: the bucket of tequila. If you want this interview, i'll
11:02
Speaker 1: give it to you, but this is off limits all
11:04
Speaker 1: these things. And then, as we've learned when we've had
11:08
Speaker 1: people work with us in publicity, they'll be prepping you
11:12
Speaker 1: um on as the interviewee, like if they asked this,
11:16
Speaker 1: this is how you should probably deal with it. Don't
11:18
Speaker 1: answer that. Yeah, it's back to what you were And uh,
11:22
Speaker 1: my favorite thing ever our videos where celebrities walk out
11:26
Speaker 1: of interviews because the interviewer has asked something they weren't
11:29
Speaker 1: supposed to ask. Those are great. Yeah, not to sit
11:33
Speaker 1: around watch those all day. Yeah, you can probably find
11:35
Speaker 1: a pretty good super cut of them. Yeah probably. So
11:39
Speaker 1: all right, Well let's take a break and uh when
11:42
Speaker 1: we come back, we will talk a little bit about
11:44
Speaker 1: the skills you need as a publicist. All right, We've
12:01
Speaker 1: mentioned lying and you know, I joke, but for real,
12:06
Speaker 1: if you want to be a publicist, you better have
12:08
Speaker 1: a certain comfort level with with stretching the truth and lying. Yeah,
12:12
Speaker 1: because you're gonna have to do that. If you're not
12:14
Speaker 1: comfortable with that, you shouldn't go into that line of work.
12:17
Speaker 1: Is that safe to say? I think very. You need
12:20
Speaker 1: to be good with people and cultivate those relationships. You
12:23
Speaker 1: need to be a good writer. Well, not only do
12:26
Speaker 1: you have to be a good writer, you have to
12:27
Speaker 1: be a good journalist. And a lot of UM publicists
12:31
Speaker 1: have a background in journalism because I kept running into
12:35
Speaker 1: this in this article and another article you sent. The
12:39
Speaker 1: number one rule of being a publicist is to think
12:42
Speaker 1: like a journalist. Even better than that is to not
12:45
Speaker 1: only think like a journalist, but be able to write
12:47
Speaker 1: like a journalist too, because as we kind of demonstrated
12:51
Speaker 1: that the publicist media relationship is a two way street.
12:56
Speaker 1: The publicist needs the media to publicize and of adding
13:00
Speaker 1: manner their client, But the media needs a publicist because
13:04
Speaker 1: they've got deadlines and they need to come up with
13:07
Speaker 1: story ideas. And if something is brought to them, that's great.
13:11
Speaker 1: But that that media professional has a reputation to protect.
13:15
Speaker 1: It can't be like, you know, Billy ray Cyrus got
13:20
Speaker 1: off of his couch and mail to check for five
13:22
Speaker 1: dollars to a local homeless shelter. Yeah, and they came
13:26
Speaker 1: in a pressure release in a fax machine. That reporter
13:29
Speaker 1: is not going to have a very good reputation. But
13:31
Speaker 1: if a publicist comes to this reporter with a great headline,
13:35
Speaker 1: creative pitch a good story that's tailored to that reporter
13:39
Speaker 1: and they're beat and even more than that, tailored to
13:43
Speaker 1: that reporters audience, there's a good likelihood that reporter will say,
13:48
Speaker 1: I'm listening and that's just music to a publicist years sure,
13:52
Speaker 1: just to be listened to. Yeah, that's when you throw
13:54
Speaker 1: it into fifth year. Uh. You can't be afraid of rejection. UM,
13:59
Speaker 1: you've got to be outgoing and you've got to take
14:00
Speaker 1: your licks because a lot of your attempts are going
14:04
Speaker 1: to fail just by nature of the job. So you
14:06
Speaker 1: can't get your feelings all hurt. Yeah, you guess you could,
14:09
Speaker 1: but you don't want to show that because then the
14:11
Speaker 1: journalists would be like, jeez, Chuck, such a baby. You're
14:14
Speaker 1: going to be eating a lot. I didn't run the
14:16
Speaker 1: story and he's complaining I saw him choking up in
14:20
Speaker 1: the bathroom. While they may get a good laugh out
14:23
Speaker 1: of that, probably won't want to work with you as much. UM.
14:27
Speaker 1: You gotta be very patient and you have to be
14:29
Speaker 1: very flexible because if you're working for celebrities, it is
14:34
Speaker 1: a very tough job. That's another thing too, So you
14:38
Speaker 1: are Um, your hours are basically all hours whenever you're needed. Right.
14:43
Speaker 1: So not only does your publicists frequently also have to
14:49
Speaker 1: do other stuff or people associated with the publicist UM
14:52
Speaker 1: have to do things like pick up things for the
14:56
Speaker 1: the client, like um. In addition to that, like the
15:02
Speaker 1: higher up you go on the food chain, which we'll
15:04
Speaker 1: talk about in a minute. UM, the more that that
15:07
Speaker 1: client feels a okay with emailing you at three in
15:11
Speaker 1: the morning saying like, UM, I need to be reassured
15:15
Speaker 1: about my celebrity status or whatever, um, and the publicist
15:19
Speaker 1: needs to respond, you're basically on call all the time. Also,
15:23
Speaker 1: at three in the morning, your client may have done
15:25
Speaker 1: something really horrifically stupid and some paparazzi caught it and
15:30
Speaker 1: now words starting to spread and you're fielding calls from
15:33
Speaker 1: reporters at three in the morning to get a statement
15:36
Speaker 1: on what your client did. Yeah. I mean when when
15:39
Speaker 1: Twitter came out, I remember thinking at the time, like
15:42
Speaker 1: publicists aren't gonna be around anymore because people are doing
15:45
Speaker 1: this themselves. Well, they've actually figured out ways to use Twitter,
15:49
Speaker 1: benefit ways to use Twitter. But Twitter is also their
15:52
Speaker 1: biggest security blanket as well, because because of Twitter, more
15:56
Speaker 1: and more celebrities are saying really stupid things at the
15:59
Speaker 1: publicist is then going to have to cover their tracks,
16:02
Speaker 1: so they'll take down the tweet and then try and
16:04
Speaker 1: spend that or just you know, the apology is always
16:09
Speaker 1: very funny to me awkward. Well, it's never like, did
16:13
Speaker 1: you hear about Chris Carter, the NFL guy, he's a
16:17
Speaker 1: former NFL player wide receiver. Yeah, he um is in
16:24
Speaker 1: hot water this week because he spoke. Was hired by
16:27
Speaker 1: the NFL to come in and speak to the rookies.
16:29
Speaker 1: They often do that for guys that had been in trouble,
16:32
Speaker 1: to come in and say, don't do what I did. Yeah,
16:35
Speaker 1: sort of and um he said in his talk to
16:38
Speaker 1: the Rookie Symposium said something about, you know, if you
16:41
Speaker 1: get caught with you know, da da da da da,
16:42
Speaker 1: he just make sure you have a fall guy on
16:45
Speaker 1: your team, like the guy in the car that's like,
16:47
Speaker 1: it's my weed. And he got in big trouble for that.
16:51
Speaker 1: And his apology. His apology was was like that that's
16:56
Speaker 1: not the kind of advice I would ever give young people.
17:00
Speaker 1: It's like, but that's the advice you exactly gave young people, Like,
17:04
Speaker 1: how can you say that days later? It's just so obvious.
17:07
Speaker 1: It's a forced, insincere apology. So we either had a
17:11
Speaker 1: bad publicist didn't listen to his publicist, because part of
17:15
Speaker 1: the publicist job is when you're going to make the statement,
17:19
Speaker 1: the public statement, the public apology, or whatever, the reasoning
17:24
Speaker 1: behind it, the rationale, the um, the wording of it,
17:29
Speaker 1: just the logic behind the apology is probably going to
17:32
Speaker 1: be crafted by your publicists. At least help they're going
17:36
Speaker 1: to help you with it. At the very least, they're
17:38
Speaker 1: going to want to help you with it, right because
17:41
Speaker 1: they're probably scared stupid that you're going to make it worse. Right,
17:45
Speaker 1: And it sounds like there's a lot of crisis management
17:48
Speaker 1: and that is a part of it, But publicists also
17:51
Speaker 1: are just trying to cook up opportunities. Um. I think
17:54
Speaker 1: that that's way more the day to day. Yeah, yeah,
17:56
Speaker 1: for sure, depending on the client, of course. Um but
18:00
Speaker 1: I remember our former boss Connell was in a band
18:04
Speaker 1: years ago and I read online somewhere that his band
18:09
Speaker 1: was I went to Elton John's do you remember this story?
18:13
Speaker 1: Went to Elton John's house and spelled out their band
18:17
Speaker 1: name and fire on his tennis court. I hadn't to
18:20
Speaker 1: try and get on his label or something. That's a
18:23
Speaker 1: great way to do it, I know, And I went
18:24
Speaker 1: and asked it. I was like, dude, I can't believe
18:26
Speaker 1: you guys did that. And he went we didn't do that.
18:28
Speaker 1: I was like no, and he was like no, these
18:29
Speaker 1: our publicists made that up. It's like nothing true about it.
18:32
Speaker 1: And he's like no, they completely fabricated that story as
18:36
Speaker 1: a publicity stunt that never happened. Uh. Yeah, So why
18:40
Speaker 1: even go to the trouble of it where you can
18:42
Speaker 1: just release a story that says that you did that
18:45
Speaker 1: you hadn't that amazing when something like that could so
18:47
Speaker 1: easily be fact check, like by calling Elton John Well,
18:52
Speaker 1: that's the other thing. Like, I don't know, I don't know.
18:56
Speaker 1: So I'm curious. I wonder how many media stories are
18:59
Speaker 1: just totally fabricated matter of fact. You out there in
19:03
Speaker 1: podcast land, let us know if you know a media
19:06
Speaker 1: story that was just totally fabricated that everybody takes his fact.
19:10
Speaker 1: We want to hear it. I love stuff like that.
19:12
Speaker 1: I do too. Alright. We mentioned earlier that you might
19:16
Speaker 1: end up getting the laundry or dry cleaning as a publicist,
19:19
Speaker 1: if you're the publicist intern. Yeah, that's probably what's going
19:22
Speaker 1: to happen, is you might get asked to go get
19:24
Speaker 1: the laundry and then you will say, sure, I'll take
19:26
Speaker 1: care of that for you, and then you will go
19:27
Speaker 1: down the chain until you find the underling who was
19:30
Speaker 1: trying to be a publicist who still does things like that. Right,
19:34
Speaker 1: this person may or may not be in college, but
19:36
Speaker 1: it's probably college age. That's something that I ran across.
19:40
Speaker 1: If you want a career in as a publicist, you
19:45
Speaker 1: do not need to spend a single penny on higher education.
19:49
Speaker 1: The entire career of publicists begins as as a hands
19:55
Speaker 1: on experience. You need to be in. You need to
19:58
Speaker 1: be literate, You need to prob have a knack for
20:01
Speaker 1: writing um in a journalistic way and crafting good headlines
20:06
Speaker 1: and by proxy good email subject lines. But you don't
20:10
Speaker 1: If you have that already before college, you don't need
20:14
Speaker 1: to go to college. No, Like you can go in
20:16
Speaker 1: major in journalism or communications or PR. But it's not
20:19
Speaker 1: like you get that diploma, that PR diploma, and you're
20:22
Speaker 1: gonna get like some entry level job as a publicist
20:25
Speaker 1: and you're still gonna have to work your way out.
20:27
Speaker 1: See it says right here, I have a PR degree,
20:29
Speaker 1: So where's my job? My advice is to skip college
20:33
Speaker 1: and go straight into the workforce as early as you can.
20:37
Speaker 1: If this is what you want to do, you know,
20:39
Speaker 1: I feel and I hope that there is becoming a
20:41
Speaker 1: bigger understanding that there are certain fields out there. There
20:45
Speaker 1: are careers out there where you don't have to go
20:48
Speaker 1: to college, and there are careers out there where, like
20:51
Speaker 1: you should go to a vocational school to learn that trade.
20:55
Speaker 1: That college is not necessarily this end all be all,
20:58
Speaker 1: that you have to spend money after money after money
21:01
Speaker 1: to get a degree that might even not be used
21:04
Speaker 1: in your field. But I mean that it needed a
21:07
Speaker 1: degree to do what I'm doing. No one ever has
21:09
Speaker 1: to see it, all right, And this is a this
21:10
Speaker 1: is a perfect example of that, Chuck, Like, to be
21:13
Speaker 1: a publicist, you do not need a degree. You need
21:16
Speaker 1: hands on experience. You need basically what amounts to an apprenticeship.
21:20
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, a good way to say it. So
21:22
Speaker 1: go in and get that job in the mail room
21:24
Speaker 1: or as an assistant or as an intern. Uh. And
21:28
Speaker 1: it would be great if you still live at your
21:30
Speaker 1: parents house at this point, because you're going to get
21:32
Speaker 1: paid like next to nothing and you're going to be
21:34
Speaker 1: doing all the grunt work. But if you are, if
21:38
Speaker 1: you go in there with your mindset to I'm going
21:41
Speaker 1: to learn this. I want to learn this and move up.
21:44
Speaker 1: You're you're going to be in the right environment for
21:46
Speaker 1: that absolutely. Uh. Like we said, you might be picking
21:48
Speaker 1: up dry cleaning. You're going to be returning a lot
21:52
Speaker 1: of phone calls, drafting a lot of um, probably not
21:55
Speaker 1: so fun uh press releases that that is graduated from
22:00
Speaker 1: the intern. Yeah. Well, I'm talking about being like a
22:03
Speaker 1: junior assistant right after you get hired on. Yeah. Yeah,
22:07
Speaker 1: and press releases that aren't like the sexy ones. You know, Um,
22:11
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be writing like the press releases for
22:13
Speaker 1: Billy Ray Cyrus in other words, No, those are sexy.
22:15
Speaker 1: You'll be writing them for his dog, Okay, you know sure,
22:23
Speaker 1: Freddie Freddie Cyrus, Freddie Freddie Cyrus. Okay. You are going
22:28
Speaker 1: to be handling your publicists that you work for, their schedule, um,
22:33
Speaker 1: their contacts. You're going to be putting together press skots
22:38
Speaker 1: and epks electronic press skitts and blasting those out. Basically
22:42
Speaker 1: all of the um nuts and bolts of the job
22:48
Speaker 1: you're going to be doing as a junior uh staff
22:51
Speaker 1: publicist or an assistant. Not a bad gig if that's
22:54
Speaker 1: what you want to do and if you stick to
22:56
Speaker 1: it and you're good at it, you're gonna end up
22:58
Speaker 1: being a publicist. Not only are you getting the experience
23:02
Speaker 1: you need on the job, you're also in a place
23:04
Speaker 1: where your networking too, because that is probably tied for
23:08
Speaker 1: first as far as like thinking like a journalist goes.
23:11
Speaker 1: You need to be a pretty good networker. That's right,
23:14
Speaker 1: And you know what, let's take a break and we
23:16
Speaker 1: will talk more about networking and some of the skills
23:20
Speaker 1: you still need. Cho Can I make a confession, I'm
23:38
Speaker 1: possibly the worst networker on the planet. Uh, you didn't
23:44
Speaker 1: have to tell me that I'm really bad at it. Yeah,
23:47
Speaker 1: it's not your back, It isn't. Some people are good
23:50
Speaker 1: at networking, pretty good at You're good at networking because
23:53
Speaker 1: I enjoy it, and I don't consider it um networking
23:58
Speaker 1: sounds like just doing something to serve you in the end.
24:03
Speaker 1: I don't look at it that way. I look at
24:05
Speaker 1: it like I enjoy making professional colleague, enjoy meeting and
24:11
Speaker 1: getting to know professional colleagues, and then later on if
24:15
Speaker 1: I can hit them up for something or if they
24:16
Speaker 1: hit me up, that's great, But if not, it's just
24:19
Speaker 1: something like you know, so, so the response to somebody
24:24
Speaker 1: when they come and ask you for something you're like,
24:26
Speaker 1: oh I saw this coming. That's not the way to respond.
24:30
Speaker 1: Probably not. I'm trying to put myself out there a
24:34
Speaker 1: little more. Oh yeah, yeah, Why is that just just?
24:38
Speaker 1: I think that's a skill that everybody should have instead
24:41
Speaker 1: of being like a misanthropic recluse, you know, put yourself
24:46
Speaker 1: out there. I agree. Um, well, one of the skills
24:49
Speaker 1: that I don't think we pinpointed was networking without seeming
24:52
Speaker 1: like your networking, which is sort of the key what
24:55
Speaker 1: I was just talking about. And I think maybe that
24:57
Speaker 1: is it too, Like I feel like networking is a task.
25:00
Speaker 1: Is if I just relaxed and enjoyed it and like
25:03
Speaker 1: just you know, communing with a fellow human being, isn't
25:08
Speaker 1: that what it's all about? It's all it is like that,
25:13
Speaker 1: then I'm sure it would be much more relaxing. Um.
25:17
Speaker 1: I read a blog and I sent it to you,
25:22
Speaker 1: and I want to shout them out because they sonic
25:25
Speaker 1: bids S O N I C B I D S.
25:30
Speaker 1: It's a blog where they did an interview that was
25:33
Speaker 1: pretty insightful. Actually, they did a double interview, a dual
25:37
Speaker 1: interview with Julie Lichtenstein, a thirty seven Media and Lily
25:40
Speaker 1: Golightly of Golightly Media, And I think they worked with
25:44
Speaker 1: bands and musical artists mainly, but it was super insightful
25:49
Speaker 1: and they said, Um, just some little tidbits here, Like
25:53
Speaker 1: I was always curious how they get paid, um, And
25:56
Speaker 1: I think if you're a publicist for a person and
26:00
Speaker 1: like you were on retainer, then you just get a
26:02
Speaker 1: salary um, or if you're part of a firm that
26:05
Speaker 1: just works for that person. But you can also just
26:08
Speaker 1: be hired for a campaign. Right, So if you're a
26:10
Speaker 1: band and you have gone to the trouble of like
26:13
Speaker 1: going in and hiring a producer to produce your album,
26:17
Speaker 1: and like you've made a studio quality album that you're
26:19
Speaker 1: proud of, you might want to hit everybody up or
26:23
Speaker 1: gather around another two grand to hire a publicist for
26:26
Speaker 1: a month to release that album correctly. And like just
26:32
Speaker 1: hiring a publicist isn't going to automatically make it great.
26:36
Speaker 1: Like you need to say, can we see some of
26:38
Speaker 1: the other campaigns you've run? What are your ideas for
26:41
Speaker 1: this campaign? Um? Who have some of your clients been
26:45
Speaker 1: in the past? Um? What are what are what's some
26:48
Speaker 1: of the press that you've gotten. Yeah, you don't want
26:52
Speaker 1: to just be like throw a dart at a phone book,
26:55
Speaker 1: do your research because it's too grand and you're an
26:57
Speaker 1: upcoming band and that's just that's not chump change. But
27:01
Speaker 1: if you if you look at it as a wise investment,
27:04
Speaker 1: and you do invest in wisely and a good publicist,
27:06
Speaker 1: it could make a huge difference for you. Agreed. Um.
27:10
Speaker 1: This Julie said that, Uh, they try and get out
27:14
Speaker 1: for for a major artist, three or four months ahead
27:17
Speaker 1: of the release of the album is when they want
27:19
Speaker 1: to start their job. So it's not like, hey, it
27:21
Speaker 1: drops next week, let's think of some good ideas, you know,
27:24
Speaker 1: they want some good lead time. Uh. And they said
27:27
Speaker 1: that they like to work around goals. Um, if they're
27:32
Speaker 1: if it's like a tour, like for us going on
27:35
Speaker 1: our tour, we don't have a publicist, but we have
27:40
Speaker 1: promoters working with venues that sort of do the job
27:43
Speaker 1: of a publicist as far as trying to sell tickets. Um.
27:48
Speaker 1: But if you are booking a tour and you have
27:50
Speaker 1: a publicist, they're going to be the ones that are
27:52
Speaker 1: getting you on the local radio stations, morning TV, getting
27:57
Speaker 1: you in the local newspaper or alternative newspaper to get
28:01
Speaker 1: you some pressed. And this is I mean if you
28:05
Speaker 1: have um, like, this is stuff you can do yourself.
28:08
Speaker 1: But one of the things that you are hiring when
28:10
Speaker 1: you hire a publicists their contexts, Like you don't have
28:14
Speaker 1: the context, you're just the band. One of the problems
28:17
Speaker 1: is that you are it's going to be tough for
28:19
Speaker 1: you to think objectively, like you're not gonna understand why
28:23
Speaker 1: every journalist you talked to doesn't want to automatically do
28:25
Speaker 1: a long form piece on how great your band is.
28:28
Speaker 1: Publicists is going to be dispassionate enough and removed enough
28:34
Speaker 1: that they can see it objectively through a journalists size
28:36
Speaker 1: and then pitch it in a way that's probably going
28:39
Speaker 1: to get better, um more more bites. Yeah, that's a
28:43
Speaker 1: good way to put it. Because the artists we've even
28:46
Speaker 1: experienced this is the ones who gets their feelings or
28:49
Speaker 1: saying like, oh man, that you know they interviewed us
28:51
Speaker 1: last time, why did they do it this time? And
28:52
Speaker 1: they're always great about massaging the ego a little bit,
28:55
Speaker 1: saying like it's okay, guys, there's no big deal, because um,
28:59
Speaker 1: that doesn't do much for anyway. Lie, right, we got
29:03
Speaker 1: this other thing that's better lie right. Um. The other
29:07
Speaker 1: thing they're gonna be doing if they work for you,
29:08
Speaker 1: is are gonna be sending you, uh weekly or bi
29:11
Speaker 1: weekly reports on what's lined up, who passed on stuff,
29:15
Speaker 1: who who bit um stuff like that, Like they're keeping
29:19
Speaker 1: you informed. You're not just like in a black hole.
29:22
Speaker 1: And some artists like to be well in touch on
29:24
Speaker 1: that stuff. And some probably don't care about being bothered.
29:29
Speaker 1: They just want to be on Man. Conan shot in
29:35
Speaker 1: Atlanta fifteen minutes from our house where we live, and
29:40
Speaker 1: we couldn't get on Conan and it was while our
29:43
Speaker 1: TV show is debuting. You don't have to remind me.
29:48
Speaker 1: Let's talk Penny C. Santi Vieri, Yeah, from HuffPo. She
29:53
Speaker 1: is the author and CEO of Marketing Experts, Inc. And
29:57
Speaker 1: she listed out nine things that a good publicist does.
30:01
Speaker 1: What's number one? Chuck? Can you guess? I think like
30:03
Speaker 1: a journalist? That's right. You already said that and you
30:06
Speaker 1: were right. It's the number one rule. Number two rules,
30:09
Speaker 1: know the rules, right, You gotta play within the game
30:14
Speaker 1: if you start and you can bend rules, but if
30:16
Speaker 1: you start breaking them, people have a long memory. Well here, yeah,
30:20
Speaker 1: if you go on and read. Um, just type the
30:24
Speaker 1: phrase rules of pitching and publicity into your favorite search
30:29
Speaker 1: engine and it will bring up Apparently one of the
30:32
Speaker 1: journalist things journalists like to do in their downtime is
30:35
Speaker 1: right lengthy blog post mocking pr and publicists don't follow
30:41
Speaker 1: the rules of pitching. So, um, one of the rules
30:44
Speaker 1: is no phone calls. You just don't use the phone email. Yeah,
30:50
Speaker 1: especially if you're cold calling people like I guess if
30:53
Speaker 1: you have a relationship with somebody, you can pick up
30:55
Speaker 1: the phone and column, but you you don't send an
30:58
Speaker 1: email blast and then a day later follow up on
31:03
Speaker 1: the email by phone. Apparently that's the worst thing you
31:07
Speaker 1: can do. Yeah, you don't want to bug people, know,
31:09
Speaker 1: and it's very easy to come off as like pestering
31:13
Speaker 1: a reporter as publicist. So you need to know the rules,
31:17
Speaker 1: or your publicist needs to know the rules. Here's a
31:20
Speaker 1: good one that I didn't think about reading outside of
31:22
Speaker 1: your market. I'm sure it's pretty easy to just think
31:25
Speaker 1: New York in l A, Like, what else do I
31:28
Speaker 1: need to know about? Well, not even that. It's like, um,
31:31
Speaker 1: if you're a band outside of your industry, yeah, you know,
31:34
Speaker 1: and just start to think of like, oh, well, we
31:37
Speaker 1: actually sing this song about the oil industry and oil
31:41
Speaker 1: prices are going through the roofs, so maybe maybe the
31:44
Speaker 1: Today Show would want to talk to us about our songs.
31:46
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that. I'd be a great publicist.
31:50
Speaker 1: I'm terrible at networking. UM, Google alerts. That's kind of
31:55
Speaker 1: a no brainer. I would think. UM, understanding the importance
31:59
Speaker 1: of local met the that's a good one because while
32:02
Speaker 1: your artist is not gonna be super stoked about appearing
32:05
Speaker 1: on Good Morning Toledo, Hey, if there's a tie like
32:09
Speaker 1: you're from Toledo, like you, then that's probably a smart
32:13
Speaker 1: thing to do because the local media loves people that
32:16
Speaker 1: were from there that moved away. Plus, UM, Mrs sance
32:22
Speaker 1: Cvari makes this point or miss santy Viry sorry, um
32:26
Speaker 1: makes this point that, Um, you never know where a
32:29
Speaker 1: local contact is going to end up. Sure might hit
32:32
Speaker 1: the big time. They might work for USA Today in
32:34
Speaker 1: a couple of months. Yeah, it doesn't get bigger than that. Uh.
32:38
Speaker 1: And if they if they hit the big time on
32:40
Speaker 1: their end and they have you as like a contact,
32:43
Speaker 1: it could help you out big time. That's right. Uh.
32:45
Speaker 1: And then earlier you mentioned something about subject lines for emails.
32:49
Speaker 1: I never really thought about this, but um, Penny says,
32:54
Speaker 1: can I call her Penny? You can't in the first
32:56
Speaker 1: name basis I call her miss san Sivilleri. Okay, what's
33:00
Speaker 1: She says that crafting a subject line is one of
33:02
Speaker 1: the most important things that you can do as a publicist,
33:06
Speaker 1: and that they agonize over this, and it makes total
33:09
Speaker 1: sense with the glut of emails that people receive, especially journalists. Uh,
33:15
Speaker 1: you want to grab their attention otherwise it's just going
33:18
Speaker 1: to be by bye time. So but you also have
33:22
Speaker 1: to redrafting, editing, tweaking, she says. It's just like maddening
33:26
Speaker 1: how much you have to do that. Yeah, that would
33:27
Speaker 1: drive me crazy. Yeah, because it's the minutia. So much
33:31
Speaker 1: importance on the minutiae. But it's true, and you have
33:35
Speaker 1: to you have to put a lot of thought into it.
33:38
Speaker 1: But you also probably can't come off as having put
33:40
Speaker 1: too much thought into where else it seems desperate, which
33:43
Speaker 1: she'll turn somebody off. Publicists want to kill journalists and
33:47
Speaker 1: vice versa. Yeah, it sounds like a weird relationship for sure,
33:51
Speaker 1: you know, and then also, did you look up media leads?
33:55
Speaker 1: So basically there's services out there where journalists say I
34:00
Speaker 1: need a quote on I'm doing a piece on nuclear fusion,
34:04
Speaker 1: and I don't even know what that is. So the
34:06
Speaker 1: source and then this this this UM service that the
34:11
Speaker 1: journalist calls puts out like a daily year's you know,
34:15
Speaker 1: maybe even more than once a day newsletter blasts to
34:18
Speaker 1: PR people who pay for the service, and then they
34:21
Speaker 1: go through and say, oh, I've actually got a nuclear
34:24
Speaker 1: physicist on my payroll, and I'm I'm going to connect him.
34:28
Speaker 1: We've been connected that way before, huh, when we had
34:33
Speaker 1: different PR firms working for worth US at times UM
34:37
Speaker 1: they've gotten in touch and say it said so and
34:39
Speaker 1: so at SpaceX UM wants to know if you want
34:42
Speaker 1: to come on and talk about this or when we
34:44
Speaker 1: did that stuff on ABC about when the housing crisis hit. Yeah,
34:48
Speaker 1: because we're financial experts. Yeah, so stuff like that. Yeah,
34:52
Speaker 1: I guess it used to come across our desk every
34:54
Speaker 1: now and then. Well, there's there's subscription services that connect
34:58
Speaker 1: people through leads. From what I'm seeing is Twitter is
35:01
Speaker 1: now I'm filling that void a lot where you can
35:04
Speaker 1: just search Twitter for the hashtag h A r oh,
35:07
Speaker 1: help a reporter out the reporters um. And then also
35:12
Speaker 1: I guess there's a lot of PR tastemakers out there
35:15
Speaker 1: um that are just super connected and will basically tweet
35:20
Speaker 1: a lead and you don't have to pay a thousand
35:22
Speaker 1: dollars a more for that subscription service. You just follow
35:24
Speaker 1: certain people on Twitter, and as a PR person, you
35:28
Speaker 1: might have somebody that's a client that you connect. Yeah,
35:31
Speaker 1: the whole that whole new job of being an aggregator
35:34
Speaker 1: a curator like that. Yeah, like people do that and
35:37
Speaker 1: that's all they do. But we also live in an
35:40
Speaker 1: age where people are famous for being famous. Man, I
35:45
Speaker 1: need to take back a little bit about my tirade
35:47
Speaker 1: about liars. I think that what I'm talking about our
35:52
Speaker 1: people publicists for like big celebrities and stuff like that.
35:56
Speaker 1: Like we've had publicists work with us and at that
36:01
Speaker 1: of the clients that they work with are like people
36:04
Speaker 1: like us, where you don't have to like lie and spend. Yeah,
36:06
Speaker 1: we're always on our best behavior. Yeah, it's just you know,
36:08
Speaker 1: regular stuff like let me find a good opportunity for
36:10
Speaker 1: you and connect to you. And so it's I was overstating,
36:14
Speaker 1: and I think that's just the far edge of the
36:16
Speaker 1: celebrity end of things, because I just got to thinking
36:21
Speaker 1: about what if they're listening. I don't want them to
36:22
Speaker 1: think I didn't think they were doing a good job.
36:25
Speaker 1: He did a great job. We'll wait to back off
36:27
Speaker 1: of that one, Chuck. I got one more little thing
36:30
Speaker 1: on Jim Moron Moran. You just said moron m O
36:36
Speaker 1: R A N. I think Moran not the way the
36:39
Speaker 1: friends say moron. Uh. He is was known as the
36:43
Speaker 1: master of the publicity stunt back in the day. Like
36:47
Speaker 1: he did things. What his big thing was was to
36:49
Speaker 1: take a saying and try and disprove it, like for
36:52
Speaker 1: a company. So he literally went to Alaska on behalf
36:56
Speaker 1: of g E to sell a refrigerator to Uh, well
36:59
Speaker 1: it says an s come out. But I guess in
37:00
Speaker 1: any wits what you would say today. Um, he walked
37:04
Speaker 1: a bull through a china shop in New York City
37:07
Speaker 1: is a stunt. I think they broke some things. He
37:11
Speaker 1: got on a horse for a politician and changed directions
37:14
Speaker 1: midstream on the horse like rode it through a river
37:18
Speaker 1: and change directions like you can't do this. Uh. And
37:22
Speaker 1: then in nine nine for the Premier of the Mouse
37:24
Speaker 1: That Roared the Great Peter Seller's movie he opened an embassy.
37:29
Speaker 1: Remember the movie was about a small country that declared
37:32
Speaker 1: war in a big country because they wanted to declare
37:35
Speaker 1: war in the US and then surrender and then get
37:38
Speaker 1: financially from around the world because their economy was but
37:41
Speaker 1: they ended up winning or something. I don't he opened
37:44
Speaker 1: an embassy in Washington for a mythical country. Yeah. Speaking
37:48
Speaker 1: of By the way, I finally saw a Doctor Strangelove. Oh,
37:51
Speaker 1: really great movie, one of the best. It's up there
37:55
Speaker 1: for sure, one of the best satires. Let's say it
37:58
Speaker 1: is a great movie. Great movie. And Peter Seller's man
38:02
Speaker 1: just he did great. But also I mean, like George C.
38:06
Speaker 1: Scott was amazing, and he was amazing. And the guy
38:08
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name that played the colonel or whatever,
38:11
Speaker 1: the one who lost his marvels. Yea, yeah he was.
38:13
Speaker 1: He was so good. Everybody was slim Slim Chills or
38:18
Speaker 1: slim Pickins, Slim Pickins Chills. Yeah, there's Chili. Chill Wills
38:24
Speaker 1: was another like what country Western actor, Chill Wills, I
38:29
Speaker 1: think is his name, Chill Wills. You'd recognize him if
38:32
Speaker 1: you saw his face, Okay, Chill Wills, All right, of course,
38:37
Speaker 1: Chill Wills makes an appearance and How Publicist Works episode No,
38:42
Speaker 1: I got nothing else, Thank goodness. If you want to
38:44
Speaker 1: know more about publicists, you can take this word in
38:47
Speaker 1: the search part how stuff Works dot com? And I
38:49
Speaker 1: said search parts was time for listening to mail Did
38:54
Speaker 1: have one more thing? What was that movie America's Sweethearts?
38:57
Speaker 1: Did you ever see that? With John cusack Down? You
39:00
Speaker 1: know Billy Crystal was played a publicist a pain in
39:04
Speaker 1: the butt Hollywood couple. Oh, best, best portrayal of a
39:10
Speaker 1: publicist is on Seinfeld. The mom from that seventies show Members.
39:13
Speaker 1: She played Seinfeld's publicist. Oh she was. Yeah, she tried
39:18
Speaker 1: to get the airline pilot kicked out of Jerry's show
39:20
Speaker 1: and he ended up getting I think it's the one
39:23
Speaker 1: where Kramer's at JFK or LaGuardia. He's making bets on
39:29
Speaker 1: arrivals and he ends up using the son of Sam
39:31
Speaker 1: mail Bag as collateral. Right, great episode, but the mom
39:35
Speaker 1: from that seventies show played Jerry's publicist. Yeah, who was
39:40
Speaker 1: also on Friends? What was she friends? She played Phoebe's
39:44
Speaker 1: half brother. Giovanni Ribisi played his girlfriend or wife, Oh yeah,
39:49
Speaker 1: which is a weird like a mismatch couples, and I
39:52
Speaker 1: think they were. They got her to be a surrogate
39:55
Speaker 1: for them. Okay, when Lisa Kudro got pregnant realized, I
40:00
Speaker 1: think it's how he handled it. We have watched a
40:02
Speaker 1: lot of all right, I'm gonna call this one. Uh uh.
40:09
Speaker 1: We were actually right, and this lady was nice at
40:12
Speaker 1: the dinner party. How's that perspic luve? Okay, hey, guys,
40:16
Speaker 1: have a little story. I was at a small dinner
40:17
Speaker 1: party where the host was making his own sea salt.
40:22
Speaker 1: The topic about It's one of those dinner parties. The
40:25
Speaker 1: topic of kosher salt came up, so I dropped the
40:27
Speaker 1: fact from Your Salt episode that Kasher salt is actually
40:30
Speaker 1: just salt used for drawing blood out of meat to
40:32
Speaker 1: make a kosher not salt blessed by a rabbi, and
40:35
Speaker 1: the fellow guest disagreed, which I responded, I'm quite true
40:38
Speaker 1: about this. The host then said, raise your hand if
40:40
Speaker 1: you're Jewish, and the guy that disputed me raised his
40:43
Speaker 1: hand felt rather embarrassed while he explained to me what
40:47
Speaker 1: kosher means and that salt also goes through the same
40:50
Speaker 1: kosher process that would ever explained how I backed down
40:53
Speaker 1: and didn't try to defend the fact that I just
40:56
Speaker 1: told It's not that I doubted you guys, though I
40:58
Speaker 1: jokingly said I'd write any mail to complain, but it's
41:01
Speaker 1: because appeal is disrespectful to correct someone on their own heritage.
41:04
Speaker 1: Good move. I also didn't want to start any petty
41:07
Speaker 1: debate with someone at someone else's dinner party, also a
41:11
Speaker 1: good move, so I decided to take in the embarrassment
41:14
Speaker 1: while he was explaining what pocher is at the same
41:16
Speaker 1: time eating a splite of pasta with Rizo. I hope
41:20
Speaker 1: you find this amusing. Please keep up the good work.
41:22
Speaker 1: If you read on the show, please give a shout
41:23
Speaker 1: out to my friend Amber, who introduced me to the show.
41:26
Speaker 1: And that is from Chloe uh to say. So, wait
41:30
Speaker 1: a minute, Chuck, were we right and the guy was wrong?
41:33
Speaker 1: We were right. The Jewish guy was wrong because I
41:36
Speaker 1: looked it up today just to be sure, and apparently
41:38
Speaker 1: kosher salt is kosher because in fact, they said it
41:42
Speaker 1: should be called koshering salt. Yeah, because it's used to
41:45
Speaker 1: make things kosher. It is not the salt itself, it's kosure.
41:48
Speaker 1: It would have kept Chloe out of that kind of
41:49
Speaker 1: suspostion Chloe, it sounds like you have a lot of
41:52
Speaker 1: tact and dignity, yes, and that it sounds like, yeah,
41:56
Speaker 1: the guy's a bit of a chlow part. I'm not
41:58
Speaker 1: ruining the dinner party. So that is from Chloe in Sydney, Australia.
42:05
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42:10
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42:15
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42:17
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42:22
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42:24
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42:32
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