Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #253: Greg Franklin-Butler Community College

Transcript

#253: Greg Franklin-Butler Community College · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Track and field world Juvenal tuned in to our humble servant
• 0:14
  Mike Cunningham for another extraordinary message on Gil
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  Athletics connections. All right, Welcome back.
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  Here we are at the Guild Athletics Connections podcast.
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  So happy that you would join us here on the show.
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  I'm excited even, You know, here's what I hate.
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  Let me just let me put get on my step stool here for a second.
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  I don't like April Fools. I I don't like the jokes.
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  I I don't know if I like them as a kid, but I certainly don't
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  like them as an adult. So I'm just going to put that
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  out there. There is no April Fool's joke
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  here. You've seen who the the guest is
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  today. It really is that guest.
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  We're not playing games. I just don't like them.
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  I'm on a crusade to stop April Fool's jokes.
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  So even though you might be listening here on April on April
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  Fool's on April 1st, there's no fool's here.
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  We've got a great guest. I am super excited.
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  I'm going to hop right into it. Help me welcome the head coach
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  from Butler Community College in the great state of Kansas.
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  Help me welcome the wives, the wonderful Mr. Greg, Frank, Greg.
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  How are you today, Sir? Good.
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  How are you doing? Man, I am.
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  I'm doing great. You know when we're recording
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  this, it's the weekend the week after the NCAA Division one,
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  Division two, Division Three. And so we're two weeks from the
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  junior college national championship.
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  So I'm kind of, I'm kind of coming off of a a little bit of
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  a high. I love championship time.
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  I mean it's like my most favorite time of the year.
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  So I'm kind of just, you know, kind of in a lull until, you
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  know, like Penn Relays, Drake Relays starts kicking back in
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  conference meets. National just kind of keeps
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  building up, man. How how are you doing after you
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  had Nationals a couple weeks ago?
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  No, I'm doing. Good, man.
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  We we're having to get back at it, man.
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  It wasn't my expectations, but hey, we'll get it.
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  We'll get it going for outdoor. You know track is is unique,
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  right? You just went through a full
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  indoor season indoor conference, indoor nationals.
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  You don't have one second to take a breath because you've got
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  outdoor staring right at you. In fact, have you already had an
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  outdoor meet or do you have one coming up this weekend?
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  We got one this week, so we actually had a week where some
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  people recovered then start getting ready for outdoor.
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  So we run in North Texas this week.
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  Yeah, see, it's just, boy, you're right back into it and
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  you're going to blink and it's going to be outdoor conference
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  time or outdoor nationals time. I mean, it just, it never stops
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  with track and field. Yeah, it moves exactly well.
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  I'm excited to talk to you, Greg, first of all, to learn
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  about your journey, which we'll start here in a second.
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  But also, you know, I spent a year as the head coach of Neosho
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  County Community College in the Kansas Jayhawk Conference and it
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  really, it really affected me positively.
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  So anytime I get a junior college coach here and
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  specifically a Kansas Jayhawk Community College coach here, it
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  really means a lot to me. I I can't wait to talk about
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  Butler and talk about the conference and just some of the
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  great coaches you have there the great rivalries that you have
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  there. I'm I'm really excited about
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  that man. I I really have a a a special
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  place in my heart for for junior college coaches and athletes and
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  especially the the Kansas Jayhawk ones.
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  I'm excited about that to to get into that here in a little bit.
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  So why don't we start, you know, somewhere, Greg, assuming that
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  you were an athlete, coaching had to switch from you, for you,
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  from something that was done to you.
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  Hey Greg, go run this, go throw that to something that you could
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  actually do, like maybe it could, it could be conceived as
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  like an actual career for you. Where does track and field track
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  coaching? Where does it start for you?
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  Track coaching really started after I graduated from Middle
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  Tennessee. So I graduated.
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  And then I kind of was at the point, like, I was starting with
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  psychology. And then my neighbor, my wife
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  was like, hey, our neighbor got a kid.
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  He runs high school track. His mom would know, can you work
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  with him? And then I work with him, you
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  know, on a couple of things. And then I was like, oh, I mean,
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  it was pretty fun, But then I still really wasn't bought into
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  it. I think after I graduated the
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  next year, it was a girl I ran with.
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  I helped her out, like coaching her from Middle Tennessee.
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  And then she did extremely well. So then after that year, I moved
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  back to Alabama and one of my friends that I went to high
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  school with, his brother ran track for Prattville.
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  So he was like, hey, I told him, you're going to be here for a
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  while. Do you want to go out there and
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  coach? And I went out there, you know,
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  I talked to the coach, he knew who I was.
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  And then he was like, hey, it'd be good for you to help us.
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  And from that point for honestly, I was working as a
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  case manager. And then I loved it so much that
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  I was like, you know what, forget that, man.
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  Like I'm going to go and work at the school, so I'll be able to
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  coach track. So since 2012, I've been
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  coaching track since that time. Wow.
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  So you didn't. Let's go back to high school.
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  You mentioned Prattville. This is kind of where you grew
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  up Was, was in Prattville as how did you get into track?
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  And it doesn't seem like as you were going through track in high
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  school and college, which we're going to talk about some great
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  people that you were coached by in both those places.
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  That coaching was really on your in your mind.
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  Like it was more of just, you know, that's what you did.
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  It's not what you could do. Is that is that right?
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  That's correct. I mean, I really, I never jumped
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  in the track as a track savvy guy.
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  So at Prattville, you know, I played basketball and after
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  basketball they're like, well, you can't sit down.
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  So you got to figure out a sport to play for the next semester.
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  So my sister was my ride home, so I didn't really have no
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  choice. So she chose track.
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  So then it was like, well, I guess and you know, like all
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  coaches, I was like what event can I do the least?
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  Like, you know, all coach, Oh, just jump into 400 and they
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  threw him into 400. Whoa, wait, hold on.
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  Which event can I do the least? And they steered you to the 400.
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  Yeah, I did the four, I mean starting out and I was like man,
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  and I just stuck with it I guess.
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  And then my junior year is where I just jumped on the scene with
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  running 100 and stuff. So the 400 went how we steered
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  typically. Think about the 400, you were
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  like, yeah, I need to do even less.
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  So we went down to the 100. Man, Yeah, that 400 hurt man,
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  That's a that's a that's a real man's race.
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  But I mean honestly, I guess even looking at the philosophy
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  now like the stronger you are running a four helps you as a
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  short sprinter to be stronger. So I mean it really helped for
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  me, but I really hate doing Sprint work as I like doing 4
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  workouts over. OK.
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  So you mentioned and you know you grew up in Prattville, which
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  is not too far where I grew up over in Eufaula.
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  So it's a little bit South of you by an hour or so.
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  When you you mentioned you weren't really track savvy, so
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  were you, would you considered yourself a a basketball player
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  first and a track guy second? Yeah, I I always play basketball
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  and put more time in that. And then it's just, I think my,
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  I want to say my junior year, my coach was like, hey, you might
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  be good in basketball, but you have to start looking at
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  realistically, like, just 'cause you can play basketball.
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  Jump, man, you're only 510. Where are you going at that
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  height? You know, like, let's be
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  realistic. But he was like, naturally, you
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  can run track. You're really good at it.
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  And then, you know, I was like, OK, well, you know, my junior
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  year I didn't play no other sport.
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  I just did track. And then I think that year is
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  when I made it a state. And then it's like, all right, I
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  must be pretty good at it, you know?
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  And I mean, you got to think it's kind of like we said
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  earlier, like I didn't have like a lot of coaching.
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  Like you see kids now and like, you know, go to the summer
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  track. I didn't even know a summer
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  track, any of that stuff. What what happened was just off
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  of natural ability went out there and ran and then I think
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  my senior year when I want to stay and stuff, I think that's
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  when I was. I do summer track and I do this
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  and I do that, but I mean, I still didn't really know what
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  track really was. And so I mean summer track,
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  national. I was like, man, all these kids
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  are incredible good, like 2000 and five, 2004, I mean running
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  10-5, you know, you thinking that, man, that's fast for that
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  time. But man, I got the national, I'm
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  like, man, everybody in this heat ran 10/5.
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  So that's when I stay in track in a different perspective,
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  like, you know, you know, it's you got to be pretty good.
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  But nowadays, man, 10/5 is like a 10/9 back probably when I was
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  running. But it's like, you know, track
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  is a lot, man. It's more than competing.
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  That's what I can tell you because that's what I thought it
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  was like like football, just get out and compete hard.
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  Like, no. I, I, I always like to play the
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  movie in my head when you're when you're telling a story.
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  So I can see you like looking at the last heat that just went and
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  was like, wait a minute, all those guys were in 10-5.
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  Like wait a minute. I thought I was like, I thought
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  I was special, but holy crap, there's there's ten of me out
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  here. It's crazy, but but that goes
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  with two, though, like being in Alabama, it's football.
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  It's a football state, absolutely.
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  And so it's kind of like you don't really hear people talk
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  about track. I remember going to track me
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  when I was coaching Prattville, I remember Auburn coach was
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  like, whoa, y'all got all of these good football, football
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  players. Why don't they do track?
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  And it's like, that's just not what Prattville is live, living
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  on like running track. As I hate football.
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  I mean, it's crazy. I know you probably heard of
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  Justin Thomas, like my first year coaching Prattville, I
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  coached him. He wants to stay in 100 and then
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  he went on to Georgia Tech and probably a year or so in the
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  NFL. But it's like, man, it was hard
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  getting that kid out there. I was like, hey man, I know your
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  uncle, come on, let's come out there and do track.
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  And then he was all right because you know, my uncle, I do
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  it. But it's like, the kid was fast.
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  Honestly, if that kid really put effort into it, he probably
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  could have ran fast because he went 10-7 and he didn't do no
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  indoor track. He came out there for outdoor,
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  did, did it for a couple weeks, one state.
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  So it's pretty cool, but it's like, man, like that state just
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  don't focus on track, man. It's it's football only really.
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  Yeah, I don't know how much it has changed today in 2024, but
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  when I was back there and, you know, I graduated 94.
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  So this, you know, you weren't even born in in 94, Greg.
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  It was certainly there was like 5 schools that won the state
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  meet every year and those were the five schools that took track
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  really serious, like a Scottsboro UMS ride, things like
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  that, right? Mountain Brook.
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  Because to exactly to your point, it was football 1st.
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  And you know, if you wanted to run track, OK, we've got a track
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  team. But there wasn't a focus on, you
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  know, how do you train kids faster?
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  What, how do you actually run meets, things like, you know,
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  how do you stagger your season for the meets and things like
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  that. Now I've seen it from the
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  outside. It's gotten better.
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  There are, you know, the state of track and field in Alabama
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  has definitely risen and and gotten a lot better.
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  But I'm not sure you know and today you know I I don't down
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  there in the high school side. So from 2020 to 2024, I don't
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  know if if we've got more people taking like like would Justin
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  Thomas been more eager to play to run track today than he was
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  back then because like oh that's what we do we run track versus
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  back. You know that that from that
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  experience that you shared there.
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  I'm not sure I do know that it's gotten a lot better, though.
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  Like, you know what used to win State back in in my day doesn't
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  even scratch the surface today in 2024.
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  Which tells me coaching's gotten better and participation's
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  probably gotten better in regards to the athletes in
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  Alabama as well. Right.
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  It it has. I mean, shit, I before I left
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  and came to Butler, I cussed 3 kids.
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  That was just outstanding good. I mean, so it's kind of like it
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  has gotten better. But I mean, even now, I can't
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  call this kid now the top kid there last year ran 10, four and
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  47. He's going to Alabama, did an
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  indoor track. But it's oh, I'm going to focus
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  on football. I'm not doing track.
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  It's kind of like in that that just right there.
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  It's kind of like I'll look at it.
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  Football and track go hand to hand.
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  But I mean, some coaches probably feel too like, hey, I
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  don't want the kid to get out there and tear his hamstring,
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  then he can't play football. So you understand both sides of
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  that, but it's like you know? So you ended up winning state
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  your senior year what, what Prattville had to been.
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  We had six classes back then, 5A6A6A, yeah, was 6A.
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  We were 5A back then. Where was where was state year,
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  senior year? Where?
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  Where was it held at? Mountain Brook I won indoor,
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  Indoor, the first indoor meet. What was that track up there in
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  going towards Huntsville? What is that?
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  Hold on, what year would this have been?
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  050. See, I was thinking you were so
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  young that you got to compete in the Cross Plex, but no, you were
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  in the barn up in Decatur. There you go.
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  Yeah, these kids. Don't know, Greg.
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  That's where we worked. Was that a dog track?
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  It was a horse barn, horse track and the track was this.
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  I mean old like you fell you got splinters on this thing.
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  They. Didn't even have heat in there,
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  man. They had no.
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  Filter in the seats and stuff. Man, these.
• 13:11
  People think I'm joking you so you can corroborate this story.
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  It was colder inside than it was outside.
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  I don't know how that worked. And it was so dusty from, you
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  know, just the the, Oh my gosh, no railing on the outside rail.
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  So if you fell off, you were just dead.
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  Yeah, you were just gone. Man, I ran the four in there,
• 13:29
  man. And I felt like I was going to
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  fall into the sand part, like running.
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  So it was, it was crazy, man. But you know, I'm happy that the
• 13:38
  cross plays. And it's crazy because my son
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  and other kids I coached ran in a cross Plex one time, but I
• 13:44
  even ran in that thing, the cross Plex.
• 13:46
  I think it's nice there. But that barn?
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  Oh, man. Like if you didn't run in that
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  barn, man, it's. You.
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  Don't know real Alabama indoor track.
• 13:54
  That is exactly right. I agree 100% that the Cross Plex
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  is special. That's a great facility.
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  It's more special to people who had to compete or coach inside
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  that. The horse barn in Decatur it is.
• 14:06
  Man. Don't speed in that area, man.
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  They'll get you a ticket quicker.
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  Well. Welcome to Alabama sometimes.
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  And a lot of other places. All right.
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  So you know when it stayed in the 100?
• 14:21
  So outdoor I end up I got they frost started me.
• 14:25
  It's crazy like they had these new blocks and I decided like
• 14:28
  man, I'm not using these blocks. So then far started came in the
• 14:32
  state. I think me and kid from JD were
• 14:36
  the only two returners to come back because we made it to the
• 14:38
  finals our junior year. So it's, you know, fall started
• 14:43
  kind of disappointed, went to summer track, try to do that up
• 14:46
  and then came on the JUCO man. So where where'd you go to
• 14:50
  school? Pratt.
• 14:53
  Oh, you at the Pratt Community College?
• 14:55
  Is. That right.
• 14:56
  So how did you get to Pratt? So I was initially trying to go
• 15:01
  to Alabama. Well, initially trying to go to
• 15:03
  Auburn, but Auburn signed the kid I beat.
• 15:05
  So I was like, I'm not going to Auburn now.
• 15:06
  I'm gonna go to Alabama, OK, Then end up going there and
• 15:09
  then, you know, great test checker.
• 15:12
  But my GPA was too low. So then I ended up going the
• 15:16
  route to JUCO. And it's crazy.
• 15:18
  Like, you know, I always tell the story, 'cause it's so funny.
• 15:20
  So I reached out to Cali Community College.
• 15:23
  And you know. Coach Phillips, which is past
• 15:25
  now. Yeah.
• 15:26
  I'm like, you know, I reached out to him in a year before.
• 15:30
  He's like, yeah, this kid, you ran 10/5 in high school.
• 15:33
  But he was like, yeah, last year guys ran like 10 threes.
• 15:38
  You want to make it. So it's so funny.
• 15:40
  So when I went to practice, every time I run against Cali, I
• 15:43
  got to destroy them just because of that.
• 15:45
  And it's so funny. Like his son coach here with me
• 15:48
  a couple years ago and I remember telling his dad because
• 15:52
  we had a banquet in Wichita. I said, Coach Phillips, I got to
• 15:55
  tell you this story, man. I don't know how you remember
• 15:57
  this, but you told me this when I was coming out of high school.
• 16:00
  And he said, I used to always wonder why you used to kick her.
• 16:03
  Ass, man. But now I know, man.
• 16:05
  It's funny. But Pratt was cool, man.
• 16:08
  I I loved it there. Small town.
• 16:10
  Very small town. And that, and that is indicative
• 16:14
  of 99% of all the junior colleges in Kansas.
• 16:17
  You know, I was in Chanute KS. You think about Barton and
• 16:19
  they're in Great Bend. That's a small town, Fort Scott.
• 16:23
  I was just, you know, I went down to Pittsburgh for Division
• 16:27
  Two, to Pitt State and I stopped in Fort Scott.
• 16:29
  Oh, man. He gave me Chanute KS, vibes all
• 16:32
  over. Just a small town, little
• 16:34
  downtown area, a couple of restaurants and storefronts and
• 16:38
  then the school. And that's it.
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  That's that's what's there. Maybe.
• 16:40
  Maybe a Walmart, if you're lucky.
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  Maybe. Maybe Pratt got a Walmart man.
• 16:44
  So he did. Yeah, out of school, actually.
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  So what do you think about, you know, not that Prattville is the
• 16:52
  biggest city in the world, but it's really close to Montgomery,
• 16:55
  which is a big city area, right. You I'm always curious because
• 16:59
  you know, I'd be recruiting kids from, you know, big cities in
• 17:02
  New Jersey etcetera to you know Chanukah, which is they're small
• 17:07
  small schools or or small small cities.
• 17:10
  What did you think coming to Pratt, KS from Prattville, AL?
• 17:15
  Man, it's it's so crazy, man. So I I didn't know what to think
• 17:20
  of Kansas. I didn't even know what Kansas
• 17:22
  was to start you off there. So when I got there, like, you
• 17:25
  know, so my mom broke me. So once we got to Wichita, I'm
• 17:29
  like. Oh, this ain't that bad.
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  So my mom's like. We got to go 20 miles.
• 17:34
  Yeah, yeah. Keep going, buddy.
• 17:35
  Start. Riding, I'm like, so my mom's
• 17:38
  like, man, as you know, going from Wichita to Pratt at that
• 17:42
  time, it really wasn't no, like 20 miles, 30 miles.
• 17:46
  It's like you just pull up on Kingman and Cunningham and
• 17:49
  whatever. And I'm like, man, mom, I don't
• 17:52
  know if I'm in the right place. So I get there.
• 17:55
  It's a small little town, like it's a truck stop.
• 17:59
  There's a small town. So I'm like, man, I don't know
• 18:01
  what this is. I'm not sure about this, but I
• 18:05
  mean, Pratt was small. True enough, it was extremely
• 18:09
  small. Pratt remind me of Otagoville,
• 18:11
  Alabama. It's a small, small town, but it
• 18:14
  you know, But I enjoyed it though, man.
• 18:17
  Pratt is where I just jumped on the scene.
• 18:19
  You know, my coach was a first year straight out of college
• 18:22
  coach. It was crazy, but I loved it,
• 18:24
  man. How did?
• 18:25
  You, you know one of the things and we'll talk about this in
• 18:30
  your current role eventually. We won't get there now, but
• 18:32
  because I want to stay on the athlete Greg side here, one of
• 18:36
  the things as a junior college coach in Kansas that we always
• 18:40
  had to concern ourselves with is there's not a lot to do in
• 18:43
  Chanute and Pratt and Great Bend, et cetera.
• 18:46
  So that means, you know, we're dealing with 18 year old kids,
• 18:50
  that there's a lot of idle time and there's a lot of time for
• 18:52
  you to get in trouble. How did you keep yourself out of
• 18:56
  trouble? How did you keep yourself
• 18:57
  focused on the academic and and track side of it?
• 19:00
  Or did you, Greg, you might tell me a story of like, you know,
• 19:03
  you got in trouble. I don't know.
• 19:05
  So I went to college with a son like so.
• 19:07
  It's crazy. My son's a freshman here.
• 19:09
  And when I went to Pratt, me and my wife had my son, like
• 19:13
  February of our senior year. So going into college, I already
• 19:18
  had the mindset of I had to get this done.
• 19:21
  I had to focus. And you know, like, so my mom
• 19:24
  was big on, you know, we'll take care of your part while you're
• 19:27
  in school, but you have to graduate.
• 19:29
  And that's more important than anything, 'cause you got to have
• 19:32
  a degree and take care of yourself to take care of child.
• 19:34
  So I went into Pratt, where I I'm not.
• 19:39
  I wasn't like everybody like these kids nowadays.
• 19:41
  I don't. I didn't go out and party.
• 19:43
  Even if I didn't have a child, I wasn't a party person.
• 19:46
  I was a person big on when I got there, doing extra practice,
• 19:52
  studying, seeing how I can get better and trying to perform.
• 19:56
  That was just my only goal. So I was I was just in a room
• 19:59
  studying or practicing or playing the game.
• 20:01
  I wasn't outgoing around or nothing, but I was just a quiet
• 20:04
  person. So it sounds like you were
• 20:07
  focused on I have to do something for myself so I can do
• 20:11
  something for my son. Correct, right.
• 20:15
  You know, this makes me think of a relay team.
• 20:18
  Greg. Trust me.
• 20:20
  I'll connect the dot here in a second.
• 20:22
  It sounds like you were running for a bit for a bigger purpose.
• 20:26
  Like I'm running for my son. I've got to do the right things
• 20:28
  here so that I can, you know, get a job, make money, help my,
• 20:31
  my son out here. What?
• 20:34
  You know, you've seen this as a coach, we see this often where a
• 20:37
  kid will run faster on a relay, say on a four by four than they
• 20:41
  do in the open four. And it's like, man, if you would
• 20:44
  just run like that in the open, you could run, you know, yeah,
• 20:46
  blah, blah, blah. But I and I think what happens
• 20:49
  is, is when you're on a relay, you're no longer running just
• 20:52
  for yourself. You're now running for that that
• 20:55
  team that's across your chest. I got to make sure I don't
• 20:57
  disappoint Billy and Tommy back there.
• 20:59
  You know, I've got to run. Run fast.
• 21:02
  This reminds me of that kind of that attitude of like, OK,
• 21:04
  there's no party and there's no getting in trouble because I've
• 21:08
  got a kid, I've got a son that I'm.
• 21:09
  That's who I'm really running for.
• 21:11
  That's who I'm really going to school for.
• 21:13
  That, that was it. You know, I didn't, you know,
• 21:15
  growing up, my father really wasn't in my life.
• 21:18
  So I think I jumped on the scene where, you know, I had to do
• 21:22
  better than my father. So pretty much my grandfather
• 21:26
  and grandmother raised me. So I was kind of like my
• 21:29
  grandfather born in 1920. So he didn't believe that he,
• 21:34
  that man should be playing around.
• 21:36
  He believed that man is the sole purpose to provide.
• 21:39
  And he's like, hey, you got to get out.
• 21:40
  This is your providing part right here.
• 21:42
  You have to do your best to take care of this.
• 21:45
  So I think, I mean, college was fun and stuff, but I think I
• 21:48
  knew I had to graduate and get the degree and do that, do that
• 21:52
  part. Granted, even though I ran
• 21:54
  track, I still wasn't big on. Oh, I got to GoPro.
• 21:58
  I wasn't really big on that. I was just big on.
• 22:01
  I just want to run fast in JUCO, take it one step at a time and
• 22:05
  keep getting better. Wow, that's interesting.
• 22:08
  You know, most of the time we're going to hear a story of, like,
• 22:11
  you know, I wanted to GoPro, I wanted to do this.
• 22:13
  This was an end to justify the means.
• 22:16
  This was, how do I get my degree?
• 22:17
  OK, well, they'll pay me to run, so fine, I'll run because I need
• 22:20
  to get that degree, correct? I.
• 22:23
  Truly agree. That's interesting.
• 22:25
  So yeah, one of the things that I love about junior college
• 22:30
  coaches and athletes the the junior college national
• 22:32
  championship to me is my all time favorite meet.
• 22:35
  It's just you know it's a bunch of this sounds cruel Greg but
• 22:40
  but I I mean this in in a very positive manner.
• 22:43
  It it's a group of misfits and I say that because I'm a misfit
• 22:47
  like you know it's a group of kids and and coaches that need
• 22:50
  second chances third and fourth chances.
• 22:53
  It's kids that want to prove stuff it it's kids like you Greg
• 22:56
  that chip on your shoulder to coach Phillips of like oh oh you
• 23:00
  don't think I'm fast enough OK well then I'll I'll show you
• 23:02
  every time I'm on the track with your kids it's a bunch of chip
• 23:05
  on your shoulder kids and sometimes coaches and I and I
• 23:09
  just I resonate with that so I love that meet I love that that
• 23:12
  junior college system how did you take had that fuel and work
• 23:19
  towards the degree and and go through the recruiting process
• 23:23
  again that's that's the unique part of junior college right.
• 23:25
  You have to recruit and be recruited all at the same time
• 23:29
  all the time. How did you at sophomore year as
• 23:31
  you were starting to look at other schools finishing out your
• 23:34
  a a degree there at Pratt? How did that process go for you?
• 23:37
  I think so. When I did the my my sophomore
• 23:40
  year and I went into it, it was, it's crazy.
• 23:43
  So my sophomore year, my wife had our second son.
• 23:46
  It's crazy. I had to track me the day she
• 23:48
  had him. So going to school after Pratt
• 23:52
  was pretty much like, you know, I remember a lot of schools I
• 23:56
  wanted to reach out to Clemson and I thought I was going to
• 23:59
  Clemson. And you know, I I remember
• 24:01
  saying like is nobody is nobody's responsibility to take
• 24:05
  care of my kids or my portion, right?
• 24:08
  I was just all into graduating that part.
• 24:10
  So you know, you know most schools feel like I don't want
• 24:14
  you to come in here. You're distracted.
• 24:15
  Having kids can be a distraction if you're not mature enough.
• 24:19
  So I remember being at nationals and you know I'm originally from
• 24:24
  Detroit so Middle Tennessee came to national see me run and
• 24:30
  Godfrey came there and Marty Scales Godfrey is from Detroit
• 24:34
  as well. So you know he was talking to me
• 24:37
  about, like, you know when he was at Middle Tennessee he
• 24:40
  really wanted to just get better.
• 24:43
  He didn't really look at pro. He wanted to get better.
• 24:45
  And then you know close Roman was like, hey Marty, scales to
• 24:48
  be your training partner so you can come here.
• 24:50
  And keep in mind, remember I said I never was like all in
• 24:54
  track savvy. I was just all into being the
• 24:56
  best while I'm doing what I'm doing.
• 24:58
  So close Roman. And then convinced me hey come
• 25:01
  to Middle Tennessee, it's four hours away from home.
• 25:04
  You'll be able to go back and forth to see your kids.
• 25:06
  Your kids can move up here off campus apartment.
• 25:08
  So I was kind of sold on that part.
• 25:11
  You know at that time Middle Tennessee in the 2000s,
• 25:14
  nineties, big dominant sprinters.
• 25:17
  You got to think before I got there they had Orlando Reed,
• 25:20
  before that they had Godfrey, they had Marty, they had so many
• 25:25
  people before me. And you know Middle Tennessee is
• 25:27
  a prostyle. So that means that that your
• 25:30
  peers before you are coaching you and Coach Curse.
• 25:33
  So it's kind of was one of those deals.
• 25:35
  So it fit me pretty good. It was close to home and I was
• 25:39
  able to go there and continue being good and dominant Sprint,
• 25:42
  so that was cool for me. You know Middle Tennessee State
• 25:46
  has you nailed it. A great tradition, a great
• 25:49
  history. You know the great Dean Hayes
• 25:52
  you know now Now passed away we built a a tremendous
• 25:57
  organization there you mentioned some of the the sprinters and
• 26:00
  stuff and I I immediately thought of like Ron Ronnie
• 26:02
  Bramlett started there you know the hurdler I heard their mind
• 26:05
  from Troy transferred their Jasper Demps did real well there
• 26:09
  it it really is an amazing place there.
• 26:12
  I do believe when I was at Troy we beat Middle Tennessee state
• 26:15
  every time just to put that on record.
• 26:17
  I just want to make sure you need that and.
• 26:20
  We got to tie one of those years.
• 26:21
  Man, we got a tie, man. So what was life like?
• 26:27
  You're closer to home, you get to you know 4 hours is a lot
• 26:30
  closer than what Pratt was to Prattville.
• 26:33
  So you got to maybe visit home and and vice versa.
• 26:35
  How was the going into a four year institution still running
• 26:39
  track and earning a degree? I think so.
• 26:42
  Going in there is is crazy. So you know how now you have a
• 26:47
  good relationship with the coach me and coach Hayes.
• 26:49
  Like, you know, in those times I remember going to his office,
• 26:52
  sit there, get all these books in there and you know, I
• 26:56
  remember accident and I was like, man.
• 26:58
  I see all these. People you coach, like, what do
• 27:01
  you coach for? You know what I'm saying?
• 27:03
  Like, you know, and he said, I'm be honest with you.
• 27:06
  I think he was a baseball person and he shifted to track and he
• 27:10
  was telling me like, you know, I want to give kids the
• 27:13
  opportunity. Like I don't care if they make
• 27:17
  it an NC double AI don't care if they make it beyond.
• 27:20
  I want to give them opportunity to get the degree.
• 27:21
  But while they're doing track, I want them to do something they
• 27:24
  love. So when I came in the middle, it
• 27:27
  was kind of, it was kind of that right there.
• 27:29
  You know like like he he didn't really care about me.
• 27:32
  NCAA, he cared about score good at conference.
• 27:35
  We'll take care of you and your family.
• 27:36
  That's all you have to do and do your school work.
• 27:38
  So I really prided on that, did my job while I was there, ran,
• 27:44
  ran like nationally and all that.
• 27:45
  So it was pretty cool. I just think what he said to me
• 27:50
  is kind of what moted me. Even being here at Butler, I
• 27:53
  don't. I really care about giving the
• 27:54
  kids the opportunity to see how good you can be and reach your
• 27:58
  Max potential. So that really what drove me
• 28:01
  really once I start coaching like Coach Hayes Theory and keep
• 28:05
  going from there, so. What?
• 28:11
  What were you doing academically?
• 28:13
  I think you said social works in psychology.
• 28:15
  Is that what you ended up getting a degree in?
• 28:18
  I got one in behavioral science, which is psychology.
• 28:20
  So that is crazy. After I graduated, I wouldn't
• 28:23
  even doing psychology, man. Like you know, because I was
• 28:26
  good in electronics. I was working in electronic
• 28:28
  working on electronics until I got a job working with
• 28:31
  behavioral kids in the facility. And I mean after that I just
• 28:36
  stuck it out with psychology. But in my heart, even though I
• 28:38
  did that, my mom was in the psychology field.
• 28:41
  So that's why I kind of did stuff.
• 28:43
  So it kind of was like one of those deals where I knew track.
• 28:48
  I knew once I started doing track, I wanted to do something
• 28:52
  where where I can coach and continue doing running.
• 28:57
  That's really what I want to do. I didn't want to do no
• 28:59
  psychology, man. It's like, but I felt like
• 29:01
  coaching, you're going to deal with kids, mental.
• 29:05
  You're going to deal with kids going through personal problems.
• 29:07
  You're going to deal with developing and growing kids and
• 29:10
  maturing them. So psychology kind of went its
• 29:13
  course into coaching with me. So then it's like, oh, that's
• 29:16
  probably why I was pushed towards that field because it
• 29:19
  all goes and ties together. But I mean personally, like
• 29:23
  psychology was cool, but I think track is a better way to utilize
• 29:27
  being like a psychologist though.
• 29:29
  It's hard sometimes to see the things that you're working on
• 29:31
  today, how they're going to connect in five, 1015 years from
• 29:35
  now. But you're right that, you know,
• 29:37
  when you talk about behavioral sciences and psychology, it's
• 29:39
  like, you know, I've talked to a lot of lot of coaches on a daily
• 29:42
  basis, Greg. I feel like that's used on a
• 29:45
  daily basis with coaching to student athletes.
• 29:48
  You do. You got to sit and listen.
• 29:49
  That's that's a big thing. So when I was going to grad
• 29:53
  school, I was up in DC at this. Then we had where, you know,
• 29:58
  they were teaching you how to beat a family therapist or
• 30:01
  whatever you want to be. And part of the weekend of the
• 30:05
  course, you had to like you had to be the psychologist and you.
• 30:10
  Had to be the. Person telling your story and
• 30:12
  switch. And I think when you're
• 30:14
  listening to like track even in JUCO because I'm more so than
• 30:19
  coach Long Ridley and in D1. But in JUCO every day is you
• 30:24
  dealing with this kid emotionally?
• 30:26
  Are you dealing with somebody that don't have a father figure?
• 30:28
  Are you dealing with a girl didn't have that wrong person.
• 30:31
  You're like canceling these kids every day which is no problem
• 30:36
  with it. But you know I personally think
• 30:39
  that's why I like JUCO more so than D1 because we're going to
• 30:43
  develop the kids and mentally make sure they're ready for when
• 30:46
  they go next. So we're going to have to do the
• 30:47
  baby in the hand holding, the maturing, the understanding,
• 30:52
  chasing around, making sure you go to class and that Last Chance
• 30:56
  you show that they put out there and the ladies, the counselors
• 31:00
  on there. Like that stuff is real, man.
• 31:03
  Like, I know some people don't like Last Chance You because it
• 31:06
  does expose JUCO. But in reality you got to think,
• 31:10
  if we don't do our part doing that here, how would they ever
• 31:13
  make AD one? They're not going to make it
• 31:15
  because they're not mature enough.
• 31:16
  Yeah, and we desperately need a last chance you track and field,
• 31:19
  by the way. We we really do, man.
• 31:22
  I think it'd be pretty cool because I think everybody look
• 31:25
  at life is just football and basketball, but I think track is
• 31:28
  the same as both of them. It's just that we run.
• 31:31
  But everybody think that you can just go out there and run and
• 31:34
  that's a false fact, man. Everybody can't go out there and
• 31:37
  run. But I think it'd be pretty cool
• 31:38
  to do a last chance you won't track because you see a lot of
• 31:42
  things behind the scenes of how how much work they put in and
• 31:45
  what they can do. Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:48
  And where they come from and where they end up that that's,
• 31:51
  you know, everybody loves a redemption story.
• 31:53
  You know the kid who you know is a father is a high schooler
• 31:57
  doesn't have a lot of options to go four year.
• 32:00
  So you go to Pratt and then become something you know that's
• 32:04
  that that is a story that is you know told many times in the
• 32:07
  junior college world and the other side of it where they go
• 32:11
  and they continue not moving down the positive path and don't
• 32:15
  end up going to a four year etcetera.
• 32:18
  So there's a there's a lot of a lot of amazing stories that have
• 32:22
  come through junior colleges for track and field, that's for
• 32:24
  sure. So you'd mentioned earlier you
• 32:28
  know you get your degree from Middle Tennessee state, you go
• 32:30
  back to Prattville, you kind of you know help out at the at your
• 32:34
  alma mater kind of coaching. So how did how did coaching
• 32:37
  become like the thing because you know you got a great
• 32:40
  responsibility at this point you have you have two children,
• 32:43
  there is no bigger responsibility.
• 32:45
  You know the the coach of the greatest program, however you
• 32:48
  want to define that is still not as important as the dad to
• 32:54
  children. So how did how did coaching come
• 32:57
  into and with Prattville and how did that continue to grow for
• 33:01
  you? So when I jumped on Prattville,
• 33:04
  I think after coaching Justin, I think that next year it was
• 33:09
  like, you know, so I was assisting.
• 33:11
  I wasn't the head coach on them teams.
• 33:13
  So when I got a chance to coach Somertrack, that gave me the
• 33:17
  chance to show how good I really was.
• 33:19
  Because when you're the assistant, you can't really show
• 33:23
  how good you are because it don't matter how much you coach,
• 33:25
  the credit is going to the head coach.
• 33:28
  So in the summertime it was a kid that was at Prattville that
• 33:33
  our coach like that summer like and it was another kid from
• 33:38
  Montgomery that I coached and I coached from Montgomery Dream
• 33:40
  team. And you know one of the kids
• 33:43
  that I coached at Prattville, this kid only ran 10810 eight
• 33:47
  and probably 22. You probably like Denmark.
• 33:49
  OK, numbers. Then it was another kid that ran
• 33:52
  21/8 and 10/8. So I told him, look, hey, you
• 33:56
  run a summer track for me, I guarantee we can get an
• 33:58
  opportunity to go to college. So one of the ones that the one
• 34:02
  that was a senior, he went from 11 in two weeks.
• 34:06
  He went from 11 to 10/5 and he went from 21218 to 2114.
• 34:14
  He ended up, I ended up getting him to go to Barton and you know
• 34:18
  he went to Barton, then he went to Auburn.
• 34:20
  The other kid that went to Prattville, that was a junior
• 34:23
  that I was coaching, he ended up running in the summer 21/5 and
• 34:28
  10/6. In his senior year he ended up
• 34:31
  going to mobile media champions, winning the winning the 200,
• 34:34
  coming 2nd and 100 and running 10/5 and 21/4 and he ended up
• 34:38
  going to Auburn. So I think that plateau helped
• 34:42
  me out because I think going into that next year I didn't
• 34:45
  even make it past really a whole year.
• 34:47
  I remember in December I was like, man, I can be doing so
• 34:50
  much better, you know, I want to go somewhere else so I can show
• 34:53
  how good I am coaching. So I reached out to Coach Turner
• 34:57
  that was here. You know, it's crazy.
• 34:59
  He ended up coaching at Pratt and then he was coaching at
• 35:02
  Houston. Then he ended up landing.
• 35:04
  He went to Garden City, then he landed here.
• 35:07
  And then I reached out and said, hey, you know, I'm trying to get
• 35:10
  in college. You know, a coach told me that
• 35:13
  y'all had an offer. So I reached out and you know,
• 35:17
  he's already got a Sprint coach and it's crazy.
• 35:19
  The Sprint coach went to Auburn. Yeah, yeah.
• 35:21
  I I was going to say for such an Alabama fan, a lot of Auburn
• 35:24
  connections here, Greg. I'm just saying like the Haven
• 35:27
  end up, he was really good at Auburn running on their four by
• 35:31
  ones and 200. He was up here coaching.
• 35:33
  So you know, I came up here and you know, 'cause Turner's like,
• 35:36
  hey here, coach the girls, you coach the boys.
• 35:39
  And magically, that first year I had Mr. Eli Hall Thompson on the
• 35:43
  team, which Eli ended up my first year after going to Texas
• 35:47
  Tech. After coach them two weeks end
• 35:50
  up with JUCO #121. I want to say 2119 indoor.
• 35:55
  And then you know, you know, they're really good that year.
• 35:58
  But I pretty much from there, the story was it.
• 36:02
  I was here and I was just coaching a lot of good
• 36:05
  sprinters, whatever. But you know, fun times though,
• 36:07
  man. And you've been a Butler ever
• 36:09
  since. Yep, since 2015.
• 36:12
  And when did you take over as the head coach?
• 36:13
  What? Was that 2/22?
• 36:17
  22 OK, so let's talk about Butler.
• 36:23
  What did you so So coaching collegiately?
• 36:28
  Coaching collegiately at a Community College is different
• 36:31
  than running as an athlete at Community College.
• 36:35
  What did you have to learn? What had?
• 36:37
  What did you have to do differently now that you're a
• 36:39
  full time assistant coach? At this point at Butler, what
• 36:42
  did you have to do differently? What did you have to learn?
• 36:46
  So when I was assistant, starting off, I didn't really
• 36:48
  have a lot of responsibilities besides recruit and coat
• 36:52
  sprints. My second year I end up coaching
• 36:54
  the women and men. But I think recruiting was a big
• 36:58
  thing. I remember coach attorneys
• 36:59
  always say this, like to keep a coaching job you need to be able
• 37:02
  to recruit, you need to be able to coach.
• 37:05
  If you can't do that, then you're not going to be good.
• 37:07
  And I remember you saw say you can't make millions either.
• 37:10
  I was thinking no I hit man I'm not trying to make millions I'm
• 37:13
  just trying to be a good Sprint coach man like but that was just
• 37:17
  me at the time. So you know man, just coming in
• 37:20
  here I think from after Eli year I just wanted to make a name and
• 37:24
  I mean I have to throw this person name out.
• 37:26
  Coach Tony man. Like coach Tony is the reason I
• 37:29
  even got into JUCO because I sent the kid to Barton and he
• 37:33
  was at Allen but when I came in he was at Barton and I remember
• 37:37
  he was like hey man you're going to be pretty good don't worry
• 37:39
  about it. Like they first year man Barton
• 37:42
  like us and Barton went heads up like that my first year that's
• 37:45
  what I do remember. But Coach Tony which he had New
• 37:48
  Mexico now he is the one who put me on the plat so to get to this
• 37:52
  level. So I always got to give him a
• 37:54
  shout out but you know shoot man, I got the JUCO man.
• 37:58
  I was like, man, these dudes are killers out here.
• 38:01
  I. Don't care nothing about that,
• 38:02
  man. Like, I mean, I brought a kid
• 38:04
  from Montgomery with me, Eli Hall.
• 38:07
  Then we had a couple other kids, man.
• 38:09
  But recruiting was really the biggest thing because man,
• 38:12
  recruiting is so cutthroat, man. You can call a kid, you like
• 38:15
  them, I'm going D1 and you like what?
• 38:18
  Like, oh man, it's so it's so crazy.
• 38:21
  But recruiting is the biggest thing, which you got to be good
• 38:25
  at it. You got to get kids and you got
• 38:26
  to take some rejection out there.
• 38:28
  But it's like, if you can recruit, you're going to be
• 38:32
  good. But.
• 38:33
  So let's let's talk about recruiting here a little bit
• 38:35
  because you know Greg, I think, I think you're right 100% and
• 38:39
  when I coached that was kind of my big thing.
• 38:41
  I was known as a big recruiter and all that kind of good stuff.
• 38:44
  And in junior college it's it's so unique because first of all,
• 38:50
  at least when I was there, so I was there the 2001 season, I
• 38:57
  here's what I didn't like about recruiting for junior college.
• 38:59
  I felt a little bit like a shark.
• 39:01
  And what I mean by that was, you know I would call, you know the
• 39:05
  top 20 kids in the country, top 20 seniors in the country.
• 39:09
  And the first thing I would ask for is a transcript because if I
• 39:12
  was recruiting them their top 20.
• 39:15
  So these kids were all wanting to go to like I lost kids to
• 39:18
  Miami, Mississippi State, Alabama, Texas.
• 39:22
  I mean they, you know these were the best of the best.
• 39:24
  They were going big time Division One, not just Division
• 39:26
  One. So I would ask for their
• 39:28
  transcripts first because if they had the grades and the test
• 39:31
  score, I was out like you're you're not going, you know, you
• 39:35
  know I'm recruiting 13, five women, hundred 100 high
• 39:38
  hurdlers. You're not coming to Chanute KS
• 39:41
  versus Miami because you qualified so you can get a
• 39:44
  scholarship there. You're not.
• 39:45
  So I was always like, oh, this person has a three, five and a
• 39:50
  22. It's like, oh, that's great for
• 39:52
  them. I love that they qualified.
• 39:54
  Good luck to you. I'm done.
• 39:55
  I'm going to the next person. And now I've got this 1355
• 39:58
  hurdler and she's got, you know, A22 and A12.
• 40:03
  And it was like, oh, good, I get to recruit this person.
• 40:05
  I hated it. They didn't have good grades,
• 40:08
  but OK, I get to recruit it. I felt a little sharkish about
• 40:12
  that. Now.
• 40:12
  I was giving kids a second and third chance.
• 40:14
  So, you know, there's good things about that.
• 40:16
  How did you handle recruiting? Not only in the sense of like
• 40:22
  the grades and the athleticism and things like that, but also
• 40:25
  what is your like? I don't want to say style of
• 40:28
  recruiting, but like maybe what do you think recruiting is?
• 40:32
  Is recruiting simply trying to become, I hesitate to say this
• 40:36
  word, good friends with the recruit or is it about
• 40:39
  salesmanship? Talk to us about recruiting
• 40:41
  because I think I think a lot of four year schools could learn a
• 40:44
  ton from junior college coaches in the recruiting world because
• 40:48
  you've got to recruit and get your kids recruited.
• 40:50
  So you're you're always in recruiting mode.
• 40:51
  It's 20, you think it's 24/7 in the four year world, it is 24/7
• 40:56
  in the junior college world. Give us, let's talk about
• 40:58
  recruiting philosophy etcetera. I'm going to stop talking now.
• 41:02
  So. So after Eli, I'm out.
• 41:05
  I was always a coastline. I'm gonna go get, I'm gonna go
• 41:07
  get the big dogs. And if they reject me, they just
• 41:10
  reject me. But if they can see, and I
• 41:14
  remember my first year, I told Eli I'm going to make you really
• 41:17
  good. Which Eli came out of high
• 41:19
  school. I mean, US #1 from Texas.
• 41:23
  So it's kind of like, you know, I had to use him as a platform,
• 41:27
  like, hey, if people can see that you were US #1 and you came
• 41:31
  to JUCO and then you did really good JUCO, then people are going
• 41:35
  to want to come here. So I have to sell you.
• 41:37
  And then I had another kid, Lamar Ian from Montgomery, He
• 41:40
  was really good too. Like he developed in his
• 41:43
  freshman year. He went from 11 to 10, three and
• 41:46
  from 21/8 to 20.8. So I had to use those two to
• 41:50
  market everybody else behind. So the next year we got this
• 41:54
  kid, Xavier Atkins from Florida. Probably heard of the kid name,
• 41:58
  man. Honestly, that kid is that kid
• 42:00
  was phenomenal. Like for Butler.
• 42:02
  He won every summer track nationals since he was 9.
• 42:05
  The kid was just real deal. So we end up getting him.
• 42:09
  We got a kid from Minnesota, which I didn't even know.
• 42:12
  People ran track in Minnesota. It's so cold up there.
• 42:15
  But team Sirleaf, he came in here, he did phenomenal job.
• 42:19
  We had Quinn Poole. He was US #4, like coming from
• 42:24
  Georgia, ran 46 out of high school.
• 42:29
  Then we had a good hurdler from Georgia as well, Came with them.
• 42:32
  So we built that year. Like, I just like, I'm going to
• 42:36
  go out and just get some really good kids and it's because.
• 42:39
  Greg, you said you talk to these kids and tell them, hey, we're
• 42:41
  going to make you better. Every coach says that there's
• 42:44
  not a single coach that calls a recruit and says, hey, you're
• 42:46
  going to come here and you're going to be the same or you're
• 42:48
  going to be worse. Every coach is I'm going to make
• 42:51
  you better. So you talked about those kids
• 42:53
  that you guys signed and those were awesome kids.
• 42:56
  I have to assume if you're recruiting correctly, that also
• 42:58
  means you missed out on a bunch of other good kids as well,
• 43:01
  'cause you know, you got to recruit numbers here you don't
• 43:04
  bat 1000, You don't. You don't recruit 10 kids and
• 43:06
  sign those ten kids. You recruit, you know, 50 kids
• 43:08
  and sign 5. Why did you lose kids?
• 43:14
  And when you lost them, what did you do about it?
• 43:17
  What I mean by that is there is there things that you changed
• 43:19
  about how you recruited because you didn't sign XY and Z.
• 43:23
  Now I think so that year. So when you recruit, obviously
• 43:27
  you know you put on your board like we got a Eli here, we got
• 43:30
  this kid here. So now you got to look at what
• 43:33
  do we need to fill in, right. So when?
• 43:37
  So it's like, for example, honestly, once we signed Xavier
• 43:41
  when she was a 10/4 dude coming out of high school, I'm all
• 43:43
  right, we got him. Him.
• 43:45
  All right, We got 4, so we don't really need to get no more of
• 43:48
  that. Then we signed Quinn, who ran
• 43:51
  4621 three and 10, four out of high school.
• 43:54
  So realistically you got 4-5 good sprinters that can run one
• 43:58
  through to four. So then you go after.
• 44:01
  We had a kid on our team from Ghana which he ran 40 sevens.
• 44:08
  47, two And then we had a long jumper, so we had a good long
• 44:12
  triple jumper. So we seeked out to get another
• 44:15
  jumper from Florida, which we end up getting a kid, but.
• 44:18
  Really it's about connections like, so if people know who you
• 44:21
  are and you guys think that year we still had the haven here.
• 44:25
  So me and him, when I came in, we recruited so hard together
• 44:30
  like he had. Connections I had.
• 44:31
  People I knew. We we just put that together and
• 44:35
  we got the team we got and it's crazy.
• 44:36
  That team the next year we ended up winning.
• 44:40
  We end up winning regionals back-to-back, something that
• 44:42
  Butler never did on the man's side ever.
• 44:44
  So it's kind of like you got to seek out what actually fits your
• 44:49
  program, What kid fits the program because it can be a 10/1
• 44:54
  kid. Great, right?
• 44:55
  He don't fit your program, you know?
• 44:57
  So you can't go get that kid that don't fit the program.
• 44:59
  And two, fill in with the kids that can come in and win.
• 45:03
  Because I think nowadays you don't have to talk to the
• 45:06
  coaches so much, no more because you got Instagram, Facebook.
• 45:09
  But I personally think talking to coaches is key because you
• 45:13
  don't know how that kid is, You know what I'm saying?
• 45:15
  We recruit in numbers, we're not recruiting.
• 45:18
  How's his mentality? Do he work hard?
• 45:20
  So I think you got to talk to the coaches, you got to see if
• 45:23
  they fit your program and they got to understand coming in what
• 45:27
  you expect from them because it's junior college.
• 45:30
  But you got to think if you got to Eli Hall Thompson, who was US
• 45:34
  number one in the Quinn pool, you marketing that already, it's
• 45:38
  like hey man, you can come here. And The thing is, you may not
• 45:40
  get the D1 offer you want coming out of high school, but you do.
• 45:44
  A year or two here. You can get that offer and go to
• 45:47
  that school of your choice. You just.
• 45:48
  Wasn't ready at that time. Right.
• 45:50
  OK. So Greg, you know one of the
• 45:54
  advantages that I enjoy as the host of this podcast is I get to
• 45:59
  push back and challenge the the guest.
• 46:03
  So here's what I'm going, you know, I'm going to put you in an
• 46:06
  unfair situation here. I'm going to not ask you
• 46:09
  necessarily to represent all of coaches, but I'd like to get
• 46:11
  your viewpoint in this. So you said about a kid that
• 46:16
  fits your program and you made specifically of like, hey, the
• 46:19
  10 one kids out there, but they don't fit your program.
• 46:22
  They don't fit your program. I hear something similar to that
• 46:25
  every day on social media that, you know, if a kid posts bad
• 46:30
  social media posts, you define how, whatever that means or they
• 46:33
  get in trouble, etcetera. You know, I'll, I'll pull a
• 46:36
  scholarship. I've seen coaches.
• 46:37
  I have. I haven't.
• 46:38
  I have not actually seen a track coach of this, but I've
• 46:40
  certainly seen some. I'm going to be nice and not add
• 46:44
  the adjectives that I want to add here.
• 46:46
  Some football coaches or basketball coaches say, oh Yep,
• 46:49
  kid cussed on the court and so I pulled his offer, things like
• 46:54
  that. I hear that all the time.
• 46:55
  OK, but I have to call BS and I call a little bit BS.
• 47:02
  You push back here on Greg, so you know, I get the challenge,
• 47:05
  but you get to throw it right back here.
• 47:06
  Greg, I you said if I find a 10/1 kid and they don't fit your
• 47:10
  my program, then they don't fit my program.
• 47:12
  I have to believe, Greg, if you had a 10/1 kid that however you
• 47:19
  define doesn't fit your program, but wants to come to Butler, I
• 47:23
  feel like you going to have him on Butler's campus.
• 47:25
  Great. All depends.
• 47:27
  So this one I say, so let's say you get the ten 1K you get, he
• 47:31
  gets here right? He already know he's good,
• 47:34
  right? The thing is, when you get some
• 47:36
  of these kids that good, they think sometimes they know more
• 47:40
  than the coach and you got to look at where you're at now if
• 47:42
  you're going to university. Their When it's a university, I
• 47:46
  think a lot of kids and coaches look.
• 47:48
  Down on the JUCO level, it's like we get it's a sorry
• 47:51
  conference. My kid would dominate the
• 47:54
  conference, so a lot of times they're looking for insight from
• 47:58
  that coach. Too.
• 47:59
  So you got to think reason why he won't fit once you get him
• 48:03
  here is because you're telling him to do this.
• 48:06
  He's coming back telling you, hey, my coach said this would be
• 48:09
  the best thing to fit me. And sometimes you can get
• 48:12
  something that's lazy, you know, I've had talented athletes that
• 48:16
  were lazy and I've had athletes that wasn't up to par yet.
• 48:20
  So that silent athlete, because they didn't have the coaching
• 48:22
  started off. They got there because they
• 48:25
  worked their tails to get there. They wasn't lazy.
• 48:27
  They were accountable. They showed up on time.
• 48:29
  They put the work in always say I would rather get somebody
• 48:34
  that's less talented than somebody that's really talented
• 48:37
  because talented athletes like, well, I ain't got to do, I don't
• 48:40
  have to do that. I'm not going to do that.
• 48:41
  I'm going to, I'm going to slow down on this Rep I'm not going
• 48:44
  to go hard on this Rep They don't give it their all because
• 48:47
  of some of these summer track kids are naturally talented.
• 48:50
  They can go out there and run fast.
• 48:52
  But at the same time it's like when they're pressed you realize
• 48:57
  real quick like oh man, Nope, I don't want to do this.
• 48:59
  I don't want to do that. So it makes them not for your
• 49:02
  program because when you need them the most, if they're if
• 49:06
  they don't want to do it, they're not going to do it.
• 49:08
  And so now you don't give gave this kid a scholarship and they
• 49:11
  can't produce for you. So what I'm hearing you say is
• 49:14
  you would rather run 41 flat in your four by one with a bunch of
• 49:19
  hard working showing up every day.
• 49:21
  Yes Sir. No Sir, 3.5 GPA type of kids.
• 49:27
  Then run 40 flat with some kids who miss practices.
• 49:32
  Maybe have a 2.5 GPA and maybe don't say yes Sir.
• 49:36
  I'm put like this. I'm not going to say that 41
• 49:38
  because that. That's crazy I.
• 49:39
  I know that's what I'm saying, that's what I'm saying.
• 49:41
  That's crazy, but hold. On hold on, let me change the
• 49:43
  numbers then the exact same two groups of kids, I said.
• 49:46
  But the the yes or no Sir, kids run 40 flat and the the the 2.5
• 49:51
  GPA kids run 39 flat. You could run.
• 49:55
  You could run 40 flat. OK, I'm going to give you.
• 49:59
  I'm going to give you. I'm going to give you something.
• 50:00
  You're going to understand what I'm saying.
• 50:02
  So the kid I said ran 11. Oh, come in here, right.
• 50:05
  You know, he ran leaving Butler. He ran 10/1.
• 50:07
  So what I'm what I'm getting at. Is you would take that kid right
• 50:12
  there. And I'm not saying bring them
• 50:14
  all in that low level. I'm going to say I would take
• 50:17
  the 10 one kid 100 times over the 11 flag kid.
• 50:20
  But you got to think too, like what I'm saying is if you got
• 50:23
  them two years and the 10, the 11 O dude probably was a 10,
• 50:28
  four guy high school. Just the quality of coaching.
• 50:30
  You from Alabama. I'm from Alabama, the kid was
• 50:33
  from Alabama. So it's like the coaching wasn't
• 50:35
  there because like we said, football.
• 50:37
  That that. Wasn't you can bring a 10/5 kid
• 50:40
  in there, 10-3 kid that's willing to follow and work hard
• 50:43
  like that kid, whereas you can bring a 10/4 kid in 10 three kid
• 50:48
  in. And I mean the numbers don't
• 50:50
  really have to matter. The thing is having a kid that's
• 50:53
  going to work. I've had kids that's fast and
• 50:56
  early on in the game they took shortcuts where oh, we got
• 50:59
  another Rep they go hide on the side of the van.
• 51:01
  So they oh, they went to the bathroom.
• 51:03
  You see what I'm saying? So the ending goal is, I mean
• 51:06
  shoot everybody that don't ran on most of these Butler teams.
• 51:09
  They came in here and they developed to get faster, not
• 51:13
  came in here such a tend to like Eli or came in here.
• 51:18
  Yeah, I I don't doubt the developmental side and I think
• 51:21
  that's where like for me if I'm gonna tell me if a if a coach is
• 51:25
  good or not and I don't I don't even deal with those type of
• 51:29
  comparisons to be honest with you.
• 51:31
  But I don't care about, did Greg produce a 39 flat 4 by 1 team?
• 51:37
  I care about well, what was the P Rs of those kids before they
• 51:39
  got there? If you do go sign, you know, 410
• 51:43
  flat kids and run 38, whatever, that's awesome.
• 51:45
  And you may get coach of the year because that's an amazing
• 51:48
  time And you win nationals and those kids all go on to four
• 51:50
  years, etcetera, etcetera. That's awesome.
• 51:52
  But that doesn't tell me if you're necessarily a good coach.
• 51:54
  There are components of that are still a good coach, right?
• 51:57
  Because you are still managing 4 different individuals getting
• 51:59
  that stick around that fact that's that's that is coaching
• 52:02
  that just because you have 410 flat kids, you ain't running 38
• 52:05
  point just because of that. You've also got to coach.
• 52:07
  So that doesn't take away from that.
• 52:09
  But I I would rather, I'd rather say wow, you know Greg is an
• 52:13
  amazing, amazing coach and someone go, dude, his four by
• 52:16
  one team ran 42 flat. He's not that good like Oh yeah,
• 52:19
  no, no. But what you don't understand is
• 52:21
  those those four kids all ran 15 seconds out of high school.
• 52:24
  I'm making up crazy numbers here by the way, but you know what
• 52:26
  I'm saying? Like, no, no, he ran 42 with a
• 52:28
  bunch of, you know, those guys were Mylers, they weren't 100m
• 52:31
  people and he still ran 42. He did a great job coaching
• 52:34
  that. That to me is what's more
• 52:35
  important is the development of the kids.
• 52:37
  So I don't doubt that at all. I just push back on coaches and
• 52:40
  I'm not necessarily hearing you saying it like what I'm pushing
• 52:43
  back here but I hear this a lot on, you know on Twitter, you
• 52:46
  know where I live on a daily basis, right, of if a, they
• 52:51
  should call the coach, the high school coach because of the kids
• 52:53
  a bad attitude. You don't want them on the team.
• 52:55
  And I'm like dude, if that kids a 45 second 400 meter kid.
• 52:59
  So Quincy Wilson just set the national high school record in
• 53:02
  the 400 this past weekend over at Bullis High School.
• 53:04
  Joe Lee is the coach there. We had him on the podcast last
• 53:08
  year I believe. I don't know, Quincy.
• 53:10
  I assume he's a really good kid, to be real, frankly.
• 53:12
  In fact, Joe Lee told me he's a great kid.
• 53:14
  So I this is a terrible comparison.
• 53:17
  But if Quincy has a bad attitude, I don't think a single
• 53:22
  coach does not recruit him. I agree.
• 53:25
  There's not I. Think but.
• 53:26
  But coaches will say that I wouldn't recruit a kid who has a
• 53:30
  bad attitude and it's like if he runs 45 flat, you will.
• 53:33
  I think after putting like this, I probably said it wrong.
• 53:36
  After you get that kid on campus and you see how they are a
• 53:39
  semester, that's what I'm trying to say.
• 53:41
  That's different. No.
• 53:42
  OK, now, Greg, that is an important distinction.
• 53:45
  If I hear coaches say, oh man, when I get them on campus, if
• 53:48
  they continue with their bad attitude, we might have a
• 53:51
  different conversation. You might not be on the team
• 53:53
  next. That's.
• 53:55
  Different. And I love that attitude because
• 53:59
  I think as coaches and I don't want to say a special junior
• 54:01
  college coaches, but I'm going to say especially junior college
• 54:04
  coaches, you have to give. We're talking about 18 year old
• 54:07
  kids here. You have to give second, third,
• 54:10
  fourth chances. Greg, I'm not sure you sit in
• 54:12
  the seat that you are today. If someone didn't take a second,
• 54:16
  third, fourth chance on you. I certainly don't sit where I
• 54:19
  sit today. If someone didn't give me a
• 54:21
  second, third, fourth pack for me fifth, sixth chance in this
• 54:24
  world. So when I, when I hear this
• 54:27
  almighty quotes of like, oh, well, you know if the coach
• 54:30
  tells me that they have a bad attitude if they skip a Rep they
• 54:33
  go to the bathroom, etcetera, I I just, I won't even recruit
• 54:36
  them. And I'm like, first of all, I
• 54:38
  don't believe you. Second of all, I I think that
• 54:40
  says bad about you as a coach, like you.
• 54:42
  You know, I understand that's not ideal.
• 54:44
  But you, you're a leader. Shouldn't you then try to lead
• 54:47
  people to help that kid to understand he needs to go 100%
• 54:51
  of what you ask for, money each Rep and go to class every day
• 54:53
  and things like that. That's what That's what you're
• 54:55
  in this position for as a coach. You're a leader.
• 54:57
  Yeah, you don't. Well, you know, at our.
• 54:59
  Leading people who already do things perfectly is not a hard
• 55:02
  job. That's not being a leader.
• 55:03
  Leading is taking people who need guidance and helping them
• 55:08
  to become great adults, much like you have become, Greg.
• 55:12
  I mean your story is a story of I don't want to overstate and
• 55:15
  say redemption, but your story is someone who did not have, was
• 55:20
  not doing necessarily the right things in grades wise and stuff
• 55:22
  like that. But look what you've become.
• 55:24
  You've become a leader of young men and women because people
• 55:27
  gave you a second, third and fourth chance and now you get to
• 55:30
  give young people a second, third, fourth chance.
• 55:32
  You easily could have been given up on Greg.
• 55:34
  Would you agree? 18 year old Greg, father already
• 55:38
  in high school Bradville, Alabama.
• 55:40
  Come on, Greg, you're not supposed to be successful.
• 55:44
  Stay in town, go work at the local Piggly Wiggly, and that's
• 55:47
  what you're supposed to be. And instead someone took a
• 55:49
  chance on you and look what you become.
• 55:52
  Your great father, a great coach, a great person.
• 55:54
  That's what you have the opportunity to do today.
• 55:56
  I agree, I agree. I think the JUCO level, like I
• 56:01
  said before, we are the ones that are going to, you know,
• 56:04
  everything that I mentioned is funny that we're probably both
• 56:07
  went and did the same thing at this.
• 56:09
  He has a kid to go over here and do this.
• 56:11
  You had to go chase the kid down for study hall.
• 56:15
  But it's like you know when I say sometimes like not for this
• 56:19
  level, like I had a athlete on the team like gave numerous
• 56:22
  opportunities but you know that JUCO will give 100 opportunities
• 56:26
  because we don't. We understand this is it.
• 56:29
  You know what I'm saying? This is it.
• 56:31
  There, there is no D1 because you're not mature to go there
• 56:34
  yet. There is no it can be maturity.
• 56:36
  Your times ain't there, your grades ain't there.
• 56:38
  But at this level we have to get them there.
• 56:41
  And you know it's like you have to get them tough love.
• 56:44
  But the guys on the team, you got to make them accountable.
• 56:47
  Understand like money value. I personally think I always say
• 56:51
  this. I think we should have something
• 56:54
  that it like educate these kids coming out of high school and
• 56:57
  parents, how hard it is to get a scholarship and what are we
• 57:01
  looking at? Because everybody think they can
• 57:04
  have a fool. But then when you look on your
• 57:06
  team or D1, it's like man, everybody's not worth a fool.
• 57:10
  What is a full worth? And I think a lot of people get
• 57:13
  confused, like maturity comes into that accountability.
• 57:17
  You can take care of yourself and I feel like when you come to
• 57:20
  JUCO, we have to teach you that and educate you on, hey, we got
• 57:25
  to cheat you to start doing stuff D1 is going to do.
• 57:27
  So when you get there they expect you to know this so
• 57:30
  you're ready. So, you know, I'm not going to
• 57:33
  say I'm going to turn down a kid because I.
• 57:34
  I would recruit. It like those kids you're
• 57:36
  saying. It's just that if they get to
• 57:39
  the point where they're like not doing the school work because
• 57:41
  that's JUCO. Problem is that school work like
• 57:43
  males. I think they think I want to
• 57:46
  GoPro. Everybody think nowadays they
• 57:48
  can GoPro and everybody think too like, oh, I can be us in the
• 57:52
  classroom because I'm good. Then slot me by and I'll be like
• 57:55
  man. Where is that?
• 57:57
  College at like, 'cause that's not happening nowadays, but.
• 58:00
  You know, isn't that crazy? You know, when I was coaching,
• 58:05
  we used to call 10 flat the money line.
• 58:07
  Like if you ran 10 flat and under, you could get paid, you
• 58:10
  know, Adidas would kick you a $30,000 contract, etcetera
• 58:14
  nowadays. I mean, God bless, you can't
• 58:16
  even run 10 flat to win the Junior college nationals.
• 58:19
  How do kids today think they're going to GoPro?
• 58:23
  I guess it's harder than ever to GoPro.
• 58:27
  Everybody, honestly, So 2022, I had a young man that was from
• 58:32
  Trinidad on my team and you know, I wanted, we wanted him to
• 58:36
  go to North Carolina and see that's where he's going.
• 58:38
  Then because he ran for his country cutting.
• 58:40
  Well, you know, I think we had to shift and was like, hey man,
• 58:45
  we got to make it where you go pro.
• 58:46
  Keep in mind that kid only ran 10/4 and 21/1.
• 58:50
  The year before. So I was like, OK, cool, we're
• 58:52
  going to work it. It's crazy that next year he
• 58:55
  went 99 and he went 20.10, end up going to world indoor, come
• 59:00
  in 5th, and now he's a pro athlete for women.
• 59:04
  And it's kind of like everybody thinks their story's his story
• 59:08
  or anybody else's story. But The thing is people don't
• 59:11
  realize as the maturity, the understanding, the time he had
• 59:16
  to put in. We put a lot of time in here to
• 59:18
  be prepared because he's working on his best finish, his
• 59:22
  bachelor's degree even though he's pro.
• 59:24
  But The thing is you know kids are so focused on going pro like
• 59:28
  you just said like man 10110 O 9 don't even get the NCAA finals
• 59:33
  nowadays. So I'm not sure why kids running
• 59:35
  10 one think it's going to be easy.
• 59:38
  It's going to be easy to go 10 O it's going to be easy to go 9
• 59:41
  American unless you running for another country.
• 59:44
  Them times are crazy in America. Like it's hard but it's like you
• 59:49
  don't want to shoot kids dreams down but you're like, hey, how
• 59:51
  about we run fast in college, get the degree and after the end
• 59:56
  if you're close and you can make it, try it.
• 59:58
  But if not make sure your education is playing A and your
• 1:00:01
  running is playing A Yeah, because if you it's it's just
• 1:00:04
  hard nowadays. So these it's harder now than
• 1:00:06
  when we were running track. Man agreed.
• 1:00:08
  I was in the elevator with the. I can't remember what school
• 1:00:11
  he's from down at Pittsburgh And I was like, oh, what you know,
• 1:00:15
  what a vin did you qualify for And he's like, oh, the 60.
• 1:00:17
  And I was like, oh, that's cool. You know, like what's your PR?
• 1:00:19
  And he's like, yeah, 665 and you know 665 for division two
• 1:00:24
  smoking. Right.
• 1:00:25
  And I was like, oh, where are you ranked?
• 1:00:26
  And he's like, yeah, I think I'm coming in like 8th.
• 1:00:28
  And I was like, Oh my God, like not too long ago 665 would win
• 1:00:31
  Division Two. Like big time.
• 1:00:34
  Now this kids, like, I hope to make finals basically as a 665
• 1:00:38
  kid. And it's just unbelievable.
• 1:00:40
  I don't know how anybody can think they can go pro today.
• 1:00:42
  You gotta run. You gotta basically be a gold
• 1:00:44
  medalist. Yeah, yeah, it's unbelievable.
• 1:00:46
  But you gotta think people think a 661 is even make it.
• 1:00:51
  That won't even make you the Nationals for Division One.
• 1:00:54
  It is. It is fast.
• 1:00:56
  We can't say it's not fast. There are just a few more people
• 1:00:59
  that are faster today than that. Yeah.
• 1:01:01
  That's crazy. I I would love to have a 661 PR,
• 1:01:05
  right? Like, I'd call myself fast.
• 1:01:06
  If I had that PRI wouldn't have made the finals.
• 1:01:08
  But I'd be fast. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:01:10
  You. Would have made it this year.
• 1:01:12
  Yeah, I just crazy, man. All right, wrap up the
• 1:01:14
  recruiting conversation for us. You said something interesting
• 1:01:16
  that I that I I like to have this conversation when when
• 1:01:21
  college coaches are recruiting, should they also be calling the
• 1:01:26
  high school coach? Yes.
• 1:01:28
  Why? I think because you get a idea
• 1:01:32
  of how the kid is. And I say that because last year
• 1:01:36
  I had somebody on the team and, you know, like they were pushing
• 1:01:40
  a person to get here and come here and I was recruiting the
• 1:01:43
  crap out of person. But I didn't so much like sit
• 1:01:48
  down and have that conversation with the coach.
• 1:01:51
  But honestly, being truthful, if you got a kid that can be a
• 1:01:55
  knucklehead here and there, all right, you're not going to tell
• 1:01:58
  that coach that you know why, 'cause you're trying to make the
• 1:02:00
  kid go somewhere successful. I was going to ask that, OK.
• 1:02:04
  And and that's what it is nowadays.
• 1:02:05
  It's like, man, the parent in them are telling that kid, hey
• 1:02:09
  man, make sure when you get there you change, you work on
• 1:02:12
  your behavior. But I think there's something to
• 1:02:14
  coach, you know too. Because if you get here and I
• 1:02:18
  get it, I got to be dead to the kids, you get it.
• 1:02:20
  But if you get here and that kid is fussing, fighting, they can't
• 1:02:25
  control they self. I think that's something the
• 1:02:27
  coach should have knew. Don't try to just push the kid
• 1:02:30
  in the door because. But what motivation does the
• 1:02:33
  high school coach and by the way tons of empathy for the high
• 1:02:37
  school coach. You know I I'm a big defender of
• 1:02:40
  when you know college coaches will say you know these high
• 1:02:44
  school coach like think about our high school coaches.
• 1:02:46
  You know you didn't have the the best high school track coach in
• 1:02:49
  the world. Mine either.
• 1:02:51
  Great guy, love my high school coach.
• 1:02:53
  Amazing man. But did not know how to coach.
• 1:02:56
  You know, like we do today, right?
• 1:02:58
  But I have a lot of empathy for those coaches because they're
• 1:03:01
  also teaching full time. They are also parent spouses,
• 1:03:04
  probably. Parents have their own passions,
• 1:03:08
  charities, etcetera. You know, they're not doing this
• 1:03:10
  full time like maybe a college coach is.
• 1:03:12
  I have a lot of empathy for them.
• 1:03:14
  So what What motivation does a high school coach you call up a
• 1:03:19
  high school coach on A10 flat kid just to make up numbers here
• 1:03:23
  and they and this kid is just a terrible kid.
• 1:03:26
  You know he's out till 1:00. He's barely eligible or he's not
• 1:03:30
  eligible if you know, maybe if you're recruiting him at the
• 1:03:32
  junior college level. But he's a he's a bad kid.
• 1:03:34
  He's make he's making a lot of bad decisions.
• 1:03:36
  He's not a bad kid. He's making a lot of bad
• 1:03:38
  decisions. What motivation does the high
• 1:03:40
  school coach have to tell you that truth, In reality, the high
• 1:03:44
  school coach has the motivation, the opposite of, like, you know,
• 1:03:47
  he's a tough kid coach, but he's a he's got a good heart.
• 1:03:51
  You'll do well with him. You'll be a good leader for him.
• 1:03:54
  You know, I just don't understand where the high school
• 1:03:55
  coach can even tell you, hey, Greg, this not the kid you want,
• 1:03:58
  man. Yeah.
• 1:04:00
  What motivation do they have for that?
• 1:04:01
  You know, usually like, let's say me and you recruiting the
• 1:04:04
  same person, but it didn't go good with you.
• 1:04:06
  And like, I come up and ask you like, hey man, did you recruit
• 1:04:09
  this kid? And then you just tell me, hey,
• 1:04:12
  great athlete, but you know it's some kinks there.
• 1:04:16
  You're going to have to work out with this kid.
• 1:04:18
  Like you're going to have to pretty much like shadow him,
• 1:04:22
  like make sure you go to class, go get him and walk to class
• 1:04:26
  making sure he going to study hall.
• 1:04:28
  And that's what Juco's do. Like doing that and trying to
• 1:04:31
  mature them is better than, you know, having that.
• 1:04:36
  I mean, honestly, it's all the same.
• 1:04:38
  Like you, you're maturing that kid at this level.
• 1:04:40
  And I mean, I'll say I don't have a ton of them.
• 1:04:43
  I don't have kids. Mature kid have mental illness,
• 1:04:46
  like you have a lot. And you know why we have that?
• 1:04:49
  Because the ones don't have time for that.
• 1:04:52
  They don't have time to be walking around with this kid.
• 1:04:55
  They don't have time to be making sure they go to their
• 1:04:59
  appointments. It's just, it's just so hard
• 1:05:01
  nowadays. But I feel in JUCO man, we are
• 1:05:04
  like the dead moms of this level because it means more to us that
• 1:05:09
  they make it far. Like, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:05:11
  It means more to us. So a couple years now we're
• 1:05:13
  telling this story that hey man, I remember this kid, nobody
• 1:05:16
  wanted him in high school because his behavior, he did run
• 1:05:19
  fast, but nobody want to take a risk.
• 1:05:21
  And years later this kid got his degree, ran good and don't got
• 1:05:25
  married and changed his whole life because you gave him that
• 1:05:28
  opportunity. And that's kind of the thing
• 1:05:30
  with recruiting. I look at like, I don't know if
• 1:05:34
  you ever check out my Facebook. I'm always reposting old posts
• 1:05:37
  or reposting like kids that I've coached for years ago because
• 1:05:41
  that is important to me that I've seen these kids go through
• 1:05:45
  the system of Butler and then they made it D1 and they did
• 1:05:49
  good. I mean shout out to Sean Brown,
• 1:05:51
  Texas Tech kid that I was here last year.
• 1:05:54
  One, I mean him and I was the old Zach.
• 1:05:57
  Well, they all did phenomenal jobs and I'm going to say Andrew
• 1:06:00
  too. Like these kids came here last
• 1:06:03
  year and they did their job. They went D1 and all of them did
• 1:06:06
  great for their teams this year. And you know that is a
• 1:06:10
  recruiting, the story of Butler, Like we love to see our kids
• 1:06:14
  leave. We develop them here, mature
• 1:06:16
  them here and they go on to next level because recruiting is hard
• 1:06:21
  because you're going to have to take a bad kid.
• 1:06:23
  You're going to have to take that same 145 kid who everybody
• 1:06:28
  gave up on, he went to the school, got kicked out.
• 1:06:31
  You're going to have to take that chance on him.
• 1:06:32
  But you got to understand, like you will take that chance with
• 1:06:36
  him Over a 50 point kid that's doing all this stuff, he don't
• 1:06:41
  even do his school work. But you want to make sure all
• 1:06:45
  your kids that come here, you're recruiting understand like your
• 1:06:48
  goals is their goals and you want them to go far.
• 1:06:51
  Night looking at my. ACC ladies, you're Look, I want
• 1:06:55
  you to go far if you want to GoPro, let's make sure you run
• 1:06:58
  fast here to go D1 so they can set you up for that level.
• 1:07:01
  Yeah. Now that I agree with Greg, that
• 1:07:04
  when coaches say, you know, if they're a bad kid, bad apple,
• 1:07:07
  whatever, I won't recruit them. I think that is true for the
• 1:07:11
  52nd quarter Miller. Boy that that I agree with that
• 1:07:15
  45 second quarter mile. I'm like, I think you're going
• 1:07:18
  to be start talking about how of a dad figure you are and you're
• 1:07:22
  going to help this kid become better, the 55 kid you like.
• 1:07:25
  Someone. Else agreed.
• 1:07:26
  I agree. But I'm saying that that's what
• 1:07:27
  you that's how you're going to justify.
• 1:07:29
  Well that's why I still signed them versus the 50 point kid
• 1:07:31
  even like well someone else will have to be that father figure
• 1:07:33
  because I'm not taking that you know saying so.
• 1:07:35
  I agree. I agree.
• 1:07:36
  I agree. OK, so one of the many
• 1:07:38
  uniquenesses of a junior college coach is yeah.
• 1:07:41
  And again This is why I just, I love this level and I love the
• 1:07:45
  coaches like yourself that are in this is every year you are
• 1:07:49
  every year a high school coach has to get his kid, his or her
• 1:07:52
  kids recruited. Division One, Division two,
• 1:07:55
  junior college. They're always trying to help
• 1:07:56
  their seniors go on to college on the four year side.
• 1:08:01
  Every year those coaches are recruiting kids into their
• 1:08:04
  program, right? You as a junior college coach
• 1:08:07
  are doing both all the time. You are constantly recruiting
• 1:08:10
  kids into your program and you're trying to help your
• 1:08:12
  sophomores go on to four year schools.
• 1:08:15
  Degree. How so?
• 1:08:17
  So you're kind. You know, the same question I
• 1:08:19
  had about that high school coach.
• 1:08:20
  What motivation do they have to tell the coach the the truth?
• 1:08:25
  Like, hey, this kids not that great.
• 1:08:26
  You know, you're you're gonna have a lot of problems.
• 1:08:28
  How do you handle you, you you don't have all your kids at
• 1:08:32
  Butler. I'm sure all your kids at Butler
• 1:08:37
  are angels and are perfect and have four point O's.
• 1:08:41
  Yeah. OK, good.
• 1:08:41
  I saw the face. Good, good, good.
• 1:08:43
  So how do you handle when you have a kid that may have some
• 1:08:49
  issues that a coach needs to know.
• 1:08:51
  Hey coach, you know I know the kids run in 45 or 46 whatever.
• 1:08:56
  Just so you know we struggle getting him to class or
• 1:08:58
  whatever. How do you handle when that four
• 1:09:01
  year coach is calling you about about that individual?
• 1:09:07
  I'm not going to lie most of the time when four years Carly, the
• 1:09:10
  first thing that they say is hide them grades.
• 1:09:12
  So nine times out of 10, like I'm going to be honest all of
• 1:09:17
  the kids that we talked about growing and developing by the
• 1:09:20
  time it gets to that last year we already don't develop them
• 1:09:24
  and mold them and say we got to go to 4:00 study hall we already
• 1:09:27
  mold them. A what is this you got to go to
• 1:09:29
  class. So when we getting them calls
• 1:09:32
  now is like you know good kid is going to be really good.
• 1:09:38
  You know you do have to stay on him grades that's what I did and
• 1:09:42
  it helped him successively by making sure he got to study hall
• 1:09:46
  or calling him like hey make sure you hear popping up seeing
• 1:09:50
  if you there he's going to run good.
• 1:09:52
  He's going to be respectful to you.
• 1:09:54
  He's, he's real coachable. But you have to stay on that and
• 1:09:58
  personally, most of the kids that's leaving, going to these
• 1:10:03
  four years, we don't have those issues.
• 1:10:04
  I'm not even going to lie to you.
• 1:10:05
  We don't have those. Issues, because they've already
• 1:10:07
  kind of weeded themselves out at this point.
• 1:10:09
  They weed them, but all of the all of the kids that's running
• 1:10:12
  good, we'd be on them about that study hall.
• 1:10:15
  You know what I'm saying? I we have kids go to study hall.
• 1:10:17
  They don't even have to be there.
• 1:10:18
  But I always tell them, look man, if you want to get money
• 1:10:21
  and pay for school, if you got a three-point O or 3.5 or better,
• 1:10:25
  that's more money going towards your scholarship that you can
• 1:10:28
  get school pay for. So we got to be realistic here.
• 1:10:30
  Like you came here because of the grades.
• 1:10:33
  We don't want your grades to be your problem going to the next
• 1:10:36
  school. So I think we sell it on that.
• 1:10:38
  And we got really good academic people here that like we get a
• 1:10:43
  monthly thing or every every week, a couple of times a week.
• 1:10:47
  I'm checking did they go to class with their grades is so me
• 1:10:49
  and my assistants like we'd be on that stuff, man.
• 1:10:52
  Like you got some that you got a man just fuss at all the time.
• 1:10:56
  But like we said about the 45 kid, like honestly, I treat them
• 1:11:01
  all the same, 45 Whether you're the 50 kid, I want you to do
• 1:11:05
  good and give yourself opportunity.
• 1:11:08
  How do you handle? So ego is not bad.
• 1:11:11
  Bad ego is bad. How do you handle the bad ego?
• 1:11:15
  You're consulting with a lot of kids on where to go for the next
• 1:11:19
  level, where they go to a tech in Alabama.
• 1:11:21
  Troy, you're the greatest university in the world, but
• 1:11:24
  even and we've said a lot of D1 schools here, but you know there
• 1:11:27
  are many awesome opportunities for any IA and Division Two
• 1:11:31
  schools as well. How do you handle when a a kid
• 1:11:37
  is maybe not at the Division One or SEC level and really would
• 1:11:41
  thrive at the Division two, you know, Pitt State and Northwest
• 1:11:44
  Missouri State etcetera. Adam State, how do you handle
• 1:11:48
  your ego of like, oh, I sent a lot of kids at Texas Tech versus
• 1:11:52
  oh, I sent a lot of kids to this D2 program.
• 1:11:54
  How do you handle consulting that kid in the manner that they
• 1:11:58
  actually need to be consulted with?
• 1:12:01
  So I always tell the kids here, like, once you start running,
• 1:12:06
  you gotta know where you stand, right?
• 1:12:08
  And I say that because you know, if you got a kid running indoors
• 1:12:12
  112, he's more than most likely going to go 20 point low
• 1:12:16
  outdoor. 66 kid. Probably going to go 10 one.
• 1:12:19
  Then let's say you got an 800, guy can go one 53152 indoor,
• 1:12:22
  he's going to probably run 140 something, right?
• 1:12:25
  Well then what? You know when you got the kid
• 1:12:27
  that's running one 56150 sevens. You know, I always tell him,
• 1:12:32
  look, four years, four year, some of us going to be D1, some
• 1:12:34
  of us going to be D2, some of us going to be in AI.
• 1:12:36
  At the end of the day, you want to go to the best version where
• 1:12:40
  you can go and let's look at your progression.
• 1:12:42
  If I run 155, I probably can go to, you know, I probably can go
• 1:12:48
  to NAIA because if I grow and develop and get better under
• 1:12:51
  this coach, I probably can be a 153 kid, 152, I can score at
• 1:12:56
  that level, make the final and I'm worth my scholarship.
• 1:12:59
  That's what I pretty much tell him.
• 1:13:01
  Far as the Eagle, there is no Eagle with me on going, no place
• 1:13:04
  because I feel like at the end, you know, I want kids to go
• 1:13:08
  where they can get a scholarship and fit.
• 1:13:10
  Now you got those kids that don't sometimes listen to that.
• 1:13:13
  They'll be like, hey, I want to go D1, so shout out to Mario, he
• 1:13:19
  goes to Troy. I know you'll be happy with that
• 1:13:21
  kid like here Troy guy, you know, I always tell Middle
• 1:13:24
  Tennessee better, but it was right with it.
• 1:13:26
  But you know. Obviously the kids much smarter,
• 1:13:29
  so I'm good, I'm good. He came here man, and he worked
• 1:13:34
  his tail off. Always was a good status student
• 1:13:37
  and he got down to running 156. Great kid.
• 1:13:40
  I mean I remember one of our 800 guys got hurt.
• 1:13:44
  So he he was kind of hurt too, but he got healthy in time to
• 1:13:47
  run on the 4 by 8, helped us out.
• 1:13:50
  We came third. Good stuff.
• 1:13:52
  The thing is, I remember telling him like, hey, you may not be
• 1:13:56
  A1150 kid. So I said like let's look to
• 1:14:00
  going to naid two or if you want to go to D1, let's go to lower
• 1:14:05
  level D1 where you can. You know your your role is to
• 1:14:08
  score at conference. You're not going to be a
• 1:14:10
  national guy. You're a conference guy.
• 1:14:12
  He accepted that. He accepted that and he went to
• 1:14:15
  Troy and you know he's on his second year at Troy.
• 1:14:19
  But The thing is, having kids like him understand where my
• 1:14:23
  talent lies and where I can go. It's going to help these kids
• 1:14:26
  out in the long run because you got some kids go to lower level
• 1:14:30
  D1, which they don't understand, like you're never going to
• 1:14:33
  nationals. If you left JUCO running 56, the
• 1:14:36
  chances of you being a 150 per, I mean A50 person is going to be
• 1:14:41
  slim, but it's like it's the mindset of the kids nowadays
• 1:14:44
  more so than me. That's what I think.
• 1:14:46
  Do you ever consult with the kid?
• 1:14:49
  I think I might be right on these kind of number and these
• 1:14:51
  are just example numbers. But let's say you've got a a
• 1:14:53
  67060 meter guy and they got two years left, right.
• 1:14:57
  You know they're they're in your program two years.
• 1:14:58
  They still got a junior and senior year and they think, man,
• 1:15:01
  I'm 670, I'm fast, I want to go to you know, SEC Big 12
• 1:15:05
  etcetera. But you know it's like man, hey
• 1:15:08
  it's 670 even if you get down to and you probably will get the
• 1:15:11
  665, heck maybe 660-4663. You ain't going to nationals
• 1:15:16
  there however. And if you go to Grand Valley
• 1:15:20
  State, Pitt State, Northwest Missouri, you know these some of
• 1:15:23
  these amazing division two programs and you get to 665 like
• 1:15:27
  you got a shot at winning. You know you got to go faster
• 1:15:29
  still at division Two but like you but you'll go to now you run
• 1:15:32
  665 you go on the nationals in division two.
• 1:15:35
  Do you ever consult about the experience of like man, there is
• 1:15:37
  something special about going to the national championship
• 1:15:40
  whether it's D1D2D3 that it is unbelievable what it takes to
• 1:15:45
  make nationals. So if you ever consult about
• 1:15:47
  like you know hey you might have a better college experience
• 1:15:51
  going to this division two program because you can
• 1:15:53
  contribute to the team go to nationals maybe won a national
• 1:15:55
  title for crying out loud or is it more about and I do air
• 1:15:58
  quotes the Division One experience because I don't
• 1:16:00
  understand I don't necessarily think and you know we went to
• 1:16:03
  two great schools buying was a little bit better Troy but you
• 1:16:06
  went to Middle Tennessee state but that then those were
• 1:16:08
  Division One school. I'm going to take the shots
• 1:16:10
  buddy those are Division One schools.
• 1:16:12
  I'm not sure that your experience my experience was
• 1:16:18
  better than a kid that goes to Grand Valley Pitt State N you
• 1:16:22
  know the the schools that are in the top five winning division
• 1:16:24
  Two titles every year. I'm not sure the Division One
• 1:16:27
  experience I I I just don't know.
• 1:16:29
  I I don't know that those kids have a less experience because
• 1:16:32
  they're they might have had a better experience to be real.
• 1:16:34
  Like I I look, I look at those photos of Pitt State winning the
• 1:16:37
  the national title from this weekend and Oh my God, they are
• 1:16:40
  the happiest kids in the whole world.
• 1:16:42
  And I'm not sure that my experience at Troy was better
• 1:16:47
  just because it was Division One and I didn't.
• 1:16:48
  I didn't go to Nationals. I always say like cuz, I mean
• 1:16:52
  like Pitt State, they got a lot of JUCO kids on that team,
• 1:16:56
  right? And that's another good thing.
• 1:16:58
  A lot of those JUCO kids realizing that I have D1 talent
• 1:17:03
  but I don't have D1 focus in the classroom.
• 1:17:06
  So I probably need to go somewhere where I can stay
• 1:17:09
  eligible because it's it's easier to me because I was the
• 1:17:13
  one, you were the one. It's easier because you remember
• 1:17:16
  you got to go to your we have some called the enhancement
• 1:17:19
  center where you had to go there, do 2 hours a day in there
• 1:17:23
  with your tutor. Make sure before you left they
• 1:17:25
  sign off on all the schoolwork. I think D1 is a little bit
• 1:17:28
  easier when you have all that resource but you got to get
• 1:17:32
  there to get that resource. So it's like to me like I think
• 1:17:37
  kids ego. It is bigger than understanding
• 1:17:40
  the coach telling you to go NAID too.
• 1:17:43
  They feel like it's a let down. I even heard a girl tell me this
• 1:17:46
  before. I work too hard to go to a JUCO.
• 1:17:48
  I work too hard to go NAIAD too, but I'm like I'm looking at.
• 1:17:52
  Your terms, I mean a girl going. Six you.
• 1:17:56
  Didn't work that hard. Like, where is 757 going?
• 1:17:59
  Let's be real. In today's world, like you said,
• 1:18:01
  670, if you go NAID 2, you can make it a nationals and look at
• 1:18:06
  your progression. If you progress to six, six, you
• 1:18:09
  progress to 6740, you can score. If not, when, it's OK if you
• 1:18:14
  don't go D1. Because I wouldn't want to go D1
• 1:18:17
  if I know, looking at my time, I don't have a chance of making a
• 1:18:22
  top 16. You know I don't have a chance
• 1:18:25
  of making a top 48 to go to regionals and then the top you
• 1:18:28
  don't have a chance. So your only thing is you're
• 1:18:32
  going to be a conference, good person and it depends on the
• 1:18:34
  conference. Maybe, right?
• 1:18:36
  Yeah, Maybe. It depends on maybe.
• 1:18:37
  It was like, you know, I remember a couple years ago when
• 1:18:41
  I first started, I was trying to get a kid to Alabama and the
• 1:18:44
  coach was like, hey, I like this kid.
• 1:18:46
  He had 10-4 kid, but we only could give him 40%.
• 1:18:50
  He's only a relay leg. He's not going to make nothing
• 1:18:52
  individually. And you know, I understood that
• 1:18:55
  like nowadays that team four dude is not getting 40% because
• 1:19:01
  that's not even scoring at SEC. So I think it really boils down
• 1:19:06
  to, honestly, I think the kids, the athletes got to put their
• 1:19:11
  pride aside and realize where can I go get my degree, pay for
• 1:19:15
  it and where can I go and use my talent and score and help the
• 1:19:18
  team Because everybody ain't D1 good.
• 1:19:21
  And I see a whole bunch of them go there and it's like, yeah.
• 1:19:25
  Let's let's keep going on your journey real quick.
• 1:19:27
  Before we do, though, I was kind of playing in my head how I was
• 1:19:32
  given that conversation of you and me, you and I's Division One
• 1:19:35
  experience. I kind of made it seem like I
• 1:19:37
  ran at Troy. I want to make sure I don't
• 1:19:40
  misrepresent myself here. I did not run Division One.
• 1:19:43
  I did not run collegiate track at all.
• 1:19:46
  I coach my whole life. So I I just don't.
• 1:19:48
  I literally was thinking I was like, well, I kind of made that
• 1:19:50
  seem like because I said something like, well, I didn't
• 1:19:52
  go to nationals. I'm like, well, yeah, 'cause,
• 1:19:53
  you know, you didn't run, dude. That's why I didn't make it to
• 1:19:55
  national. So I I just wanted to put that
• 1:19:56
  out there for everybody Listening that I, you know, I
• 1:19:58
  don't want to compare myself to Greg athletically because there
• 1:20:02
  is no comparison there, buddy. You know, your 100m PR might be
• 1:20:06
  my 60 meter PR, so just want to put that out there.
• 1:20:09
  Quick correction that I if I made it seem that way, that was
• 1:20:12
  not me, not me, not me. Middle Tennessee won conference
• 1:20:16
  almost every year, so I'm. Just like that, bro.
• 1:20:18
  They. Simulate.
• 1:20:19
  Like, I have nothing but respect for Dean Hayes's teams and now
• 1:20:24
  Keith his teams. A lot of respect.
• 1:20:27
  I just know Troy was better anyway, so let's keep moving
• 1:20:31
  forward. All right, Greg, so I'm really
• 1:20:35
  interested in you're, you're an assistant coach for Butler.
• 1:20:38
  You're doing a great job. You're learning a lot.
• 1:20:40
  You're learning your method of recruiting and and networking
• 1:20:43
  with with four years colleges, coaches and then in 2022.
• 1:20:47
  So a couple years ago you become, it's different, you
• 1:20:50
  become the head coach. My favorite question, the ask
• 1:20:54
  everybody when they get their first head coaching job is were
• 1:20:57
  you ready, were you ready to be, you know, you've got a couple
• 1:21:00
  years to kind of look back on now.
• 1:21:02
  Were you ready to be the head coach in 2022?
• 1:21:06
  So when I stepped on, I'm going to say far as coaching, yes, far
• 1:21:10
  as developing, probably not at that time.
• 1:21:13
  And reason why I say that is because when you're assistant.
• 1:21:17
  You coach and you recruit. You kind of be like, you know,
• 1:21:21
  the mentor to the kids, you closer to the kids.
• 1:21:24
  When you become the head coach. You still can do all those
• 1:21:27
  things. But The thing is, you're
• 1:21:29
  responsible for what comes in like where, like you're
• 1:21:32
  responsible for planning, You're responsible for, like making
• 1:21:36
  sure everything goes right. You're responsible for, hey, are
• 1:21:39
  we signing this kid? Do we need them making all of
• 1:21:42
  these decisions? But I personally think I'll say
• 1:21:46
  this man shout out to Dustin before me.
• 1:21:49
  He really helped me and I'm not going to lie me and my when I
• 1:21:52
  came on, so me and my assistant now we both was like you know
• 1:21:56
  interim head coach type deal. And I'm not going to lie we both
• 1:22:00
  growed and develop, helping each other along that way more so
• 1:22:03
  than anything. But I I can say like Dustin
• 1:22:07
  Mettler really played a big factor in me understanding like
• 1:22:14
  like the paperwork, but obviously the paperwork and
• 1:22:17
  stuff wasn't hard. It honestly, I'll be truthful,
• 1:22:19
  none of that was really hard. It's just once you start
• 1:22:22
  managing this stuff, you know what I'm saying, making sure
• 1:22:24
  stuff, planning because me and my assistant both did before we
• 1:22:28
  came like this position, we did it itineraries, we did like
• 1:22:34
  recruiting, we did a whole bunch of stuff.
• 1:22:36
  So I think in that category, more developing, growing that
• 1:22:39
  part. But far as, I mean, you don't
• 1:22:42
  know what to expect when you're ahead 'cause I can honestly say
• 1:22:45
  that, 'cause you looking at it, yeah, it's more money, but it's
• 1:22:48
  like, man, they don't tell you the time and the effort and the
• 1:22:51
  things you got to put in because it's a lot of time goes into
• 1:22:54
  preparing. Like just before you caught, I
• 1:22:57
  was finishing up our itinerary just for this meet, starting on
• 1:23:00
  next week's meet. So it's like being ahead of
• 1:23:04
  things is mainly the main thing, I would say.
• 1:23:06
  But I say probably like now, last year.
• 1:23:10
  I'm probably in a. Better fit position now than I
• 1:23:12
  was two years ago, but it's like you got to understand what
• 1:23:15
  you're doing and I think in JUCO you can make a lot of mistakes.
• 1:23:19
  I think I listen to when I was about to become the head coach,
• 1:23:22
  so I listen to a podcast of. Georgia's now.
• 1:23:27
  Coach, Coach Carroll and a couple of the lady coaches, that
• 1:23:31
  was head coaches. And I listen to them all with
• 1:23:33
  saying how certain positions, certain jobs you take, you can
• 1:23:37
  make multiple mistakes in this position you can't.
• 1:23:40
  So I listen and listen to a lot of that stuff.
• 1:23:43
  You're going to probably hate this.
• 1:23:44
  I listen to a lot of Nick Saban stuff, you know, on being a head
• 1:23:48
  coach. And I also talked to Coach Hayes
• 1:23:51
  about like, hey man, how did you handle this?
• 1:23:52
  How did you do this? And he'll be like just do it
• 1:23:55
  this way, you'll be fine. Do it this way because Coach
• 1:23:59
  Hayes, believe it or not, man, that guy's about that money,
• 1:24:01
  man. He was about like when you go in
• 1:24:03
  his office, he had the little TV with the marketing on there, so
• 1:24:07
  he was always about money. So, and I think that helped me
• 1:24:10
  now because I'm always about fundraising for our team.
• 1:24:14
  Like we work K State Games this year, yet last year we were
• 1:24:17
  Oklahoma State and getting paid 25 to 5K to support your team
• 1:24:23
  doing a lot of stuff. So those things right there
• 1:24:26
  prepared me after the fact of understanding you got to raise
• 1:24:30
  money, understanding you got to do these things.
• 1:24:33
  But I wasn't prepared when I started.
• 1:24:35
  I can give you, to be honest. You know, that question is kind
• 1:24:38
  of a a test question and and it shows whether you know what
• 1:24:41
  you're kind of your level of humility and self-awareness that
• 1:24:44
  you have. You know because as a former
• 1:24:46
  head coach myself you know there there's no way no one is doing a
• 1:24:50
  good enough job in my opinion as a head coach preparing their
• 1:24:54
  assistant coaches for future head coaching positions.
• 1:24:57
  Some are doing a a job. They're helping.
• 1:24:59
  They're they're, you know you're not going to be completely blind
• 1:25:01
  when you become a head coach but no one is is really, you don't
• 1:25:05
  know the job until you're in the job kind of thing.
• 1:25:07
  So I appreciate that answer. What?
• 1:25:09
  When you think about it, you know you're you're in your
• 1:25:12
  second, second or third season as your head as the head coach.
• 1:25:16
  Were you the 22 head coach? So 2223, Now 24.
• 1:25:21
  So when you look back in 2 1/2 you know, years of experience,
• 1:25:25
  what did when you got the job? What was something that you
• 1:25:29
  thought was gonna be hard for you?
• 1:25:32
  Like, OK, I know nothing about this.
• 1:25:33
  I'm gonna have to grind and learn this, but actually was a
• 1:25:38
  little bit easier than you thought.
• 1:25:41
  I thought so. You know when you hear people
• 1:25:44
  talk about that paperwork, I used to hear coaches, but oh
• 1:25:47
  man, I'd be in the office all day.
• 1:25:50
  But I'm not a procrastinator. I'm always a person.
• 1:25:53
  I like to get stuff done ahead of time.
• 1:25:55
  Like, we literally, I literally had stuff for nationals prepared
• 1:26:00
  probably months before that even happened.
• 1:26:02
  Like, everything is always prepared, months and months.
• 1:26:05
  So me and my assistant, we just overview it like like going to
• 1:26:10
  Texas this week is like, all right, we got this, we got this,
• 1:26:13
  we got this done. We just need to do this.
• 1:26:15
  So that's it. Really.
• 1:26:17
  We really don't have, you know, we don't procrastinate
• 1:26:21
  everything. So I think that's a bigger
• 1:26:22
  thing. But I thought paperwork was
• 1:26:24
  gonna be harder than I thought, which it really wasn't.
• 1:26:26
  But really what helped me is I seeked out people like.
• 1:26:30
  Budgeting, for example. I went and seeked out the
• 1:26:32
  financing people to explain like what What am I looking at?
• 1:26:36
  Because if you know how to they show you that budget paper.
• 1:26:39
  You just look at numbers. You don't really, you don't know
• 1:26:41
  what the heck is happening on that paper you like what have I
• 1:26:45
  spent where is that at? Like you know make it like your
• 1:26:49
  actual check at the bank or something but it's just numbers.
• 1:26:52
  But you know I have people explain to me that stuff right
• 1:26:57
  there. Explain.
• 1:26:57
  So this is what's going on. Explain to Where is this money
• 1:27:01
  going? Where is this money?
• 1:27:02
  That's the main thing, knowing where the money goes.
• 1:27:05
  But the biggest thing is, I thought to, well, I didn't think
• 1:27:09
  fundraising's gonna be hard. Because remember I said I coach
• 1:27:11
  summer track and then if you coach summer track or you coach
• 1:27:15
  high school, man, you remember those car washes?
• 1:27:18
  You wouldn't get no money. But you like, man, we're going
• 1:27:21
  to get like $500 and you come out and only have $100.
• 1:27:26
  You remember those like you? Know you hit.
• 1:27:28
  People up for money in high school, but football already did
• 1:27:30
  it already. But you know, so I already knew
• 1:27:33
  about the fundraiser stuff, how to get money.
• 1:27:35
  So really, the paperwork in the budgeting?
• 1:27:38
  Yeah. That's.
• 1:27:39
  Something I thought. What would you what advice would
• 1:27:42
  you give? You know there's people
• 1:27:43
  listening right now that want to be a head coach or at least
• 1:27:47
  think they want to be a head coach at some point.
• 1:27:49
  What advice would you give that assistant coach today to help
• 1:27:53
  them start preparing for a potential head coaching position
• 1:27:56
  in the future? I think you need to two of the
• 1:27:59
  biggest things is you need to sit down and have your coach go
• 1:28:02
  over you with like paperwork like how to do it.
• 1:28:05
  Like because that's you got to know how to do like so you
• 1:28:08
  putting in you're trying to buy something it's a way you got to
• 1:28:13
  do it a way you got to go through go through have them go
• 1:28:17
  over that with you have them go over their budgeting like I like
• 1:28:20
  remember I said I didn't know what nothing but numbers.
• 1:28:22
  So sit down with the finance department, have them go over
• 1:28:25
  that with you, have them to like, talk with you about the
• 1:28:29
  fundraiser, who you're talking to, like, so we got me and my
• 1:28:32
  assistant, we do the fireworks then, right?
• 1:28:36
  Oh yeah, but. I got on to that with Coach
• 1:28:39
  Mettler and then I just kept it going.
• 1:28:41
  So keep those connections as well.
• 1:28:44
  Keep those connections with recruiting, like, you know, like
• 1:28:47
  if you got a connection with recruiting Africans or whatever
• 1:28:51
  country, keep that going. Like, keep developing those
• 1:28:54
  people And patience, man. Like I think being a counselor
• 1:28:59
  taught me a lot of patience, taught me a lot of that.
• 1:29:02
  And I think I taught my assistant this this morning too,
• 1:29:05
  that when you come into a head coach position, you used to
• 1:29:09
  assistant coach mem. I say you're the mentor, you're
• 1:29:12
  the friend, you're all these things that above, right When
• 1:29:15
  you the head coach, you got to make decisions sometimes to cut
• 1:29:19
  a kid because of discipline. You got to make the decision
• 1:29:21
  sometimes even though you know it's going to go bad for the
• 1:29:25
  kid. But you got to understand, the
• 1:29:26
  kid has to respect you and it has to be discipline there.
• 1:29:29
  And sometimes that can drain you because it's uncomfortable for
• 1:29:33
  us to discipline a kid sometimes.
• 1:29:36
  And you know when you want the best of the kid and they just
• 1:29:40
  keep burning you, burning you, even though it's not, you don't
• 1:29:44
  want to do it. Sometimes you got to do it just
• 1:29:46
  like parents. We don't want to whoop our kids,
• 1:29:48
  but you have to have them understand what's wrong, what's
• 1:29:51
  wrong and how to do better and right.
• 1:29:53
  So I think the biggest thing is respect.
• 1:29:57
  Discipline, learning paperwork, learning, patience, learning,
• 1:30:02
  budgeting, learning how to prepare for national meets, like
• 1:30:07
  do stuff ahead of time, set up like schedule your hotels ahead
• 1:30:10
  of time. All these are things I'm being
• 1:30:13
  realistic with you. I wasn't taught that coming in
• 1:30:16
  here, I just had to learn on the fly.
• 1:30:19
  And I think if the biggest thing is if you don't procrastinate,
• 1:30:24
  you'll be good in a position 'cause you can't procrastinate
• 1:30:27
  in that position, you've. Said that word a few Times Now
• 1:30:30
  about not being a procrastinator, we can't
• 1:30:35
  procrastinate. How have you, how have you
• 1:30:39
  developed your anti procrastinating genetics?
• 1:30:44
  You know, it's easy for us to say, well I'll do that on Friday
• 1:30:47
  when it's Monday and you know it's easy to push off stuff,
• 1:30:50
  especially in athletics. And what I mean by that is
• 1:30:52
  there's less deadlines. There's not no deadlines.
• 1:30:55
  There's less deadlines on an athletic side than there is on
• 1:30:59
  a, you know, maybe a professional setting, a business
• 1:31:01
  development setting, type of of of area.
• 1:31:05
  How have you like? Have you always been kind of
• 1:31:09
  against procrastinating or has that been a muscle you've had to
• 1:31:11
  train up to today as a head coach?
• 1:31:15
  So I think so. The coaches before me were
• 1:31:17
  procrastinators, so I kind of see how this leads to that.
• 1:31:23
  This leads to that. Like, I've seen those things
• 1:31:25
  already. So I think the biggest thing I
• 1:31:27
  always say is being an assistant.
• 1:31:30
  You look at head coaches of things you don't want to do and
• 1:31:34
  you learn the things that that's good.
• 1:31:35
  So, you know, I mean, talking to Coach Hayes kind of gave me more
• 1:31:39
  insight on how to prepare, how to be ahead.
• 1:31:43
  And I mean really just learning like learning stuff because I
• 1:31:47
  feel like so the week of a meet if you already did the uniforms,
• 1:31:50
  if you already told the team like made itinerary when we
• 1:31:55
  leaving, you made that a week or so ago.
• 1:31:57
  The week of the meet you just overview.
• 1:32:00
  I'm making sure you didn't miss nothing right.
• 1:32:02
  Well if you are procrastinator, you may have missed somebody
• 1:32:06
  name out on itinerary, you may then enter this in.
• 1:32:09
  Or like sometimes you do this with entries.
• 1:32:12
  You can do the entries right, but you miss a person or this
• 1:32:16
  person like you can go back and over check that and make sure
• 1:32:20
  oh, we missed this guy, we got to put him in or we missed this
• 1:32:23
  relay. If you're doing that on Sunday
• 1:32:26
  in the meets the previous week, by Wednesday you just entries
• 1:32:30
  are due Wednesday anyways, we can just overlook.
• 1:32:33
  We can just make sure everything is good, make sure we got the
• 1:32:37
  meals, make sure we set up, we're going to do catering in.
• 1:32:40
  These are all things that and when you don't procrastinate,
• 1:32:44
  you can get it done ahead of time.
• 1:32:45
  And I think my assistants learned that too.
• 1:32:47
  Like, hey, we got to be on top of this, Just got to be done
• 1:32:50
  early. Turning uniforms in, like when
• 1:32:53
  we have team meetings on Sunday, everybody got to turn 18 their
• 1:32:56
  uniforms in because I watched them hand them back out.
• 1:33:00
  That is stuff like being late and on time.
• 1:33:03
  That's another thing like. So I think it's something over
• 1:33:07
  time by watching, being an assistant, being at the JUCO
• 1:33:10
  level, I develop and I understood like and like I do
• 1:33:14
  not want to do that or I don't want to be late or we got to
• 1:33:17
  leave early. Like I looked at the itinerary
• 1:33:20
  or I looked at it, the schedule got changed.
• 1:33:23
  So now we have to leave at a different time.
• 1:33:25
  These are all things you do when you on top of stuff, but when
• 1:33:28
  you like, oh, you're not on it. Oh, they changed the time.
• 1:33:32
  You didn't know that. Oh no, I didn't pay attention to
• 1:33:34
  it. It's stuff like that.
• 1:33:36
  I I hear control the controllable.
• 1:33:38
  So you you have your own time and things that you can control.
• 1:33:42
  You can't control if that meat changes or the bus gets a flat.
• 1:33:46
  But if you are controlling all the things that are in your
• 1:33:48
  control, you're more able to have time to figure out the
• 1:33:52
  things that aren't in your control and how do you correct
• 1:33:54
  off of those? That's kind of what I, I hear
• 1:33:55
  you say, correct. Yeah, I love it.
• 1:33:58
  Greg, wrap us up today, man. Tell us what's got you excited
• 1:34:01
  about Butler track and field this year, next year in the
• 1:34:05
  future. Tell me what's got you excited,
• 1:34:07
  man. You guys got a lot of things to
• 1:34:08
  be excited about. Yeah, man.
• 1:34:10
  I'm always excited about my support, my help.
• 1:34:12
  Like Coach Mark, Coach Manny, Coach Rich.
• 1:34:16
  These guys, man, they go out and they recruit their tails off and
• 1:34:20
  make life a little bit easier for me, you know, by helping out
• 1:34:23
  with kids and stuff. My assistants, they make life
• 1:34:26
  always easy for me. I'm excited, man.
• 1:34:30
  We got a good group of kids. Indoor may not went like we
• 1:34:33
  thought, but you know, I'm a person like we just got to get
• 1:34:37
  back out there and work harder. I'm excited about outdoor
• 1:34:39
  season. You know, last year we fell
• 1:34:41
  short. We was trying to break the JUCO
• 1:34:43
  record in this four by one. We went 3989 which was trying to
• 1:34:48
  go 3986 to break it, but hopefully we do it this year.
• 1:34:52
  Hopefully these guys keep working, staying healthy, the
• 1:34:55
  girls going to be really good. I'm excited, man.
• 1:34:58
  You know, we didn't go to Texas Relays last year.
• 1:35:01
  We went year before, had a kid make the final great thing.
• 1:35:04
  So now it's like let's see how life goes.
• 1:35:08
  You know, I'm excited to see how all the kids that we coach here
• 1:35:11
  at Butler, how they do this year, Our class last year did
• 1:35:15
  phenomenal this year at their Division One school.
• 1:35:17
  So that's always a blessing, you know, to see it.
• 1:35:21
  They're doing good after here, but hey man, Butler man, we love
• 1:35:25
  working hard, we love grinding and we love being prepared.
• 1:35:28
  So you know we looking towards redemption for indoor.
• 1:35:32
  So I love it. I love it, man.
• 1:35:34
  That's awesome. Greg, thank you so much, man.
• 1:35:36
  You know, one of the most valuable things that you can
• 1:35:38
  give me is your time. And I know how busy you are
• 1:35:40
  coming off of nationals, getting ready for outdoor meet.
• 1:35:43
  And you know, like I said, you snap your fingers and outdoor
• 1:35:46
  conference regionals is here. So just so grateful for your
• 1:35:49
  time. Really appreciate hearing your
• 1:35:51
  story. I think there's a lot of lessons
• 1:35:53
  to be learned there and I'm really grateful for our
• 1:35:56
  conversation about recruiting. I think.
• 1:35:58
  I think there's a lot of myths and covered eyes over
• 1:36:04
  recruiting, and I think there can always be more transparency
• 1:36:07
  and honesty with recruiting. And I think conversations like
• 1:36:10
  the one you and I had today can help high school coaches,
• 1:36:13
  college coaches and the athletes themselves to get better fits
• 1:36:17
  for them as they work towards college or not, you know,
• 1:36:20
  depending on what their their goals are.
• 1:36:22
  So I really appreciate that conversation with you as well.
• 1:36:26
  No problem. I enjoyed it.
• 1:36:27
  Hey, don't forget Middle Tennessee is the.
• 1:36:31
  I I had my hand on the stop recording button and didn't
• 1:36:34
  click it fast enough. All right, so Blue Raiders, they
• 1:36:36
  do an amazing job. I do love them.
• 1:36:39
  I'll be on record right here and say I do love my Middle
• 1:36:42
  Tennessee State. Blue Raiders host the Tennessee
• 1:36:44
  State meet every year. It is a great facility, great
• 1:36:46
  program, great coaches and even great athletes come out of
• 1:36:50
  there. So I'm thankful for the Blue
• 1:36:53
  Raiders for producing guys like you, Greg.
• 1:36:56
  I really am. Troy's just a bit better, so
• 1:36:58
  thanks for being here this week. I appreciate everybody.
• 1:37:02
  Just weekly coming in and checking out these amazing
• 1:37:04
  coaches. Just like Greg here is really
• 1:37:05
  awesome. I do want to do a quick plug, so
• 1:37:08
  if you're listening to this, the day it drops April 1st, starting
• 1:37:11
  tomorrow, April 2nd. So all through April and all
• 1:37:16
  through May every day except for on Mondays because we have our
• 1:37:19
  regular episodes on Monday every day.
• 1:37:21
  We've got about a 20 minute podcast where we are
• 1:37:24
  interviewing a high school coach from every state in the country,
• 1:37:28
  including Washington DC. So for the next 51 days we've
• 1:37:33
  got a high school coach coming in and what we're doing is we're
• 1:37:35
  exploring what their state meet is all about.
• 1:37:39
  So, and it's an alphabetical order.
• 1:37:41
  So tomorrow, April 2nd, Alabama is on the clock.
• 1:37:44
  So we're going to have a coach from Alabama from Locust Fork if
• 1:37:47
  I remember correctly. Come in and we're going to ask
• 1:37:50
  you know what the state meet looks like?
• 1:37:51
  How do you qualify for it? What events are you doing there?
• 1:37:54
  What would you change things like that.
• 1:37:56
  And so this will give you if you listen to all 51 of them and
• 1:37:59
  it's alphabetical. So Alabama all the way through
• 1:38:02
  Wyoming, It'll give you an understanding of the differences
• 1:38:06
  in each state meet, what events they do, how they qualify.
• 1:38:09
  It's quite fascinating what's going on out there in the
• 1:38:13
  individual state meet. So starts tomorrow, 11 a day,
• 1:38:16
  April all the way through. May I hope you join us.
• 1:38:18
  I think it's going to be awesome.
• 1:38:20
  Greg, thank you for joining us. Join us next week everybody.
• 1:38:23
  We're going to do it all over again and join us tomorrow
• 1:38:25
  starting the almost at the Alabama State, starting with the
• 1:38:28
  Alabama State meet. Thanks everybody.
• 1:38:31
  Have a great day. If it goes to appreciate the
• 1:38:36
  coach the ones appoint people most every season needs a voice
• 1:38:40
  of reason speaking the growth Got a prep for you carry the
• 1:38:43
  load it's coffee to the soul for those of us to stay on the go.
• 1:38:46
  Proper handoff to stay in the zone which you packing for the
• 1:38:49
  road is more than one way to go. Take notes that's paying you
• 1:38:52
  told it ain't practice. If your purpose ain't clear it
• 1:38:55
  can't happen to you. Listen what both is.
• 1:38:58
  Can't mentor without a mentor. Years of experience you can
• 1:39:01
  reinvent those years. Every plans the standard deliver
• 1:39:04
  to and the price sacrifice can you give up you.
• 1:39:07
  It's a choice and a fight, not a win or lose.
• 1:39:09
  It's not a ploy boy device. Y'all can make more moves.
• 1:39:12
  It's not about how to. It's all about why.
• 1:39:14
  You don't know till you know who you are inside 6.
• 1:39:17
  When you waste time, choose none so of our.