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STSE #87: Are Puppies Overrated? · Sometimes There's Side Eye

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Welcome to Sometimes There's Side Eye, a podcast about two
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friends having real and unfiltered conversations about
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dogs and people listen as we talk about our lives with dogs,
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training, behavior, share some laughs and a whole lot of
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banter. I'm Heather.
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And I'm Christy. What are we talking about this
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week? Christy, this week we are going
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to talk about our favorite subject, puppies.
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Other's favorite subject. I was going to.
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Say, is that really your favorite subject?
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Christy, tell me more. Why are we going to talk about
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the? Puppies.
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Hopefully you're going to talk about puppies because I recently
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puppy sat for the last four days or so, a little nine week old
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Doberman puppy, and the experience was both amazing and
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full of puppy shenanigans. So I thought we'd talk through
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some of those things and I would ask Heather some questions like
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why? Why do you like puppies?
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I don't understand. Well, let me preface this by
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this puppy was absolutely amazing.
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Like you had a good one. Recognize that she is such a
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good puppy, such a good puppy. But I also recognize at the end
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of that short time frame I I don't understand why people like
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puppies. Well, first of all, you had her
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for such a short time at like the little tenderest age and it
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takes time to like establish routines.
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But once you establish routines, that does make things a lot
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easier. So I feel like a three to four
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day little stint with a new baby puppy that isn't yours is a
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completely different experience than setting in your own
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routines, a puppy that you've been waiting for that you're
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excited about. It's very different.
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But I do you recognize? My neighbor came over and was in
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love immediately. She spent like an hour, hour and
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a half here and was like, Oh my gosh, can I take her home?
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I'm like maybe. You just have a cold, dark
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heart. Probably, yeah.
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You know what's really funny, though?
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I don't know if we've ever talked about this.
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So prior to me getting Tiago, I was an I hate puppy.
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I was just like you really. True story.
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I would like to preface, I don't hate puppies, I just don't want
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one. OK, we're going to speak in
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hyperbole. Hyperbole right now.
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Christy hates puppies. Yes.
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And I was an I hate puppy too. And then so many people told me
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you just need to wait your route.
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It was pre Tiago. And so my pre Tiago, my last
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puppy was Lucy, who would have my Lucy, who would have been a
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puppy in 2005. And she was pre Trin, she was
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the hardest puppy I've ever had. And so that was my last
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experience. And everyone kept telling me
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just wait, it's going to be different, you know, blah, blah,
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blah, blah, blah. And then Tiago was such an
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incredible puppy and I had learned so much that I felt like
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I was very prepared. And then I raised other people's
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puppies and I'm like, this is really fun.
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And then I got Trin and it made me question my life and my
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abilities with a puppy. But then a friend said to me one
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day when I was complaining to her about trends and how hard
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she was, she said yes. But it's very humbling and it
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helps you empathize with other puppy owners that you take on as
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clients. And I'm like, that is true.
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But now looking back, of course my husband says puppies are like
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tattoos. You forget how terrible they
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are. Just in time to get your next
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one. That makes sense.
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So what do you? Oh, go ahead, go.
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I was gonna say. So what do you love about having
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a puppy in the house? Genuine question.
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Like what is it that you love about puppies?
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This is the same for my personal puppy or anyone else's puppy.
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There is something about a puppy and their blank slate.
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And I know genetics, all that stuff.
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Like, I hear you, but there is this sense of wonder in a puppy
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that just is such a little moment in time.
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They are so curious about the world.
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Yes, usually. That is adorable, yes.
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And they just want to do all the things and be with you and be
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silly and just, I mean, you can literally take your hand and
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like make a little fake spider on the floor and move it around
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and they're like, Oh my God, that's the best thing I've ever.
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Seen. You know, there's like this
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silly sense of wonder about them, and I just love that.
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And I love when you have a puppy and you teach them something.
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This light bulb goes off for them in a different way than an
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adult dog. And when you teach them that
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thing, they have this like unbridled enthusiasm to then do
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that thing. And it's messy and they're like
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falling over and they're biting at you and they're just such a
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shit show. But they're so much almost said
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passion, cause kind of like there's so much energy and just
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like silliness in that. Oh my gosh.
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I just freaking love it. I love, love, love training
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little puppies. OK.
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It was that too much I. Don't want.
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Love it. No, that's perfect.
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Some of the things you said, I'm like, yeah, that's why I don't
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like them. Oh, like what?
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Like the biting at you all the time.
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I know. And this puppy the last day
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discovered my feet and that was like she was like, oh, these
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feet are awesome. I should bite them.
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And I'm like, that really hurts. Stop doing that.
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Sharky, sharky, sharky. So sharky and poor Jackson she
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she discovered his tail and his butt fluffs.
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Or like my one friend calls them mudflaps that he has.
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Oh, his little floofs on his. Behind.
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End Yes. And she thought that was really
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fun to bite. Jackson did not feel that that
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was fun to bite. Yeah, 'cause she's probably
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never seen a tail would be my bet.
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She's only ever met Dobermans. Yeah, exactly.
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I would say for me, what I and I'm like just give me all the
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adult dogs. But I do understand.
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I thought when she was here I thought, oh, I understand where
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recall would be so much easier to teach in a puppy this young
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because because they do say it's easier to teach at that age
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because they naturally are going to follow.
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You. And I thought, yeah, that that
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is happening. Like she followed either Jackson
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or myself everywhere. You know, she didn't want to be
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left out of anything. So I did think of that.
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I was like, oh, yeah. That it would be much easier to
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teach her to come than an adult dog.
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But I love that adult dogs can just exist.
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Like they can just be and puppies are not just existing
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like they are unless they're sleeping.
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And that's really cute when they sleep, but if they are awake,
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they are not just being there. What are we doing now or
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something? I'm like, chew this.
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Oh, you don't like that? Chase this.
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Oh, you don't, you're bored with that.
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Now chase this other thing. Oh, this thing's crinkles.
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Here, have that. And like, oh man, this is like a
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full time job trying to keep you entertained.
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It is a full time job having a new you have.
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To be fully invested in the moment, absolutely every.
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Moment. I think that Tiago was probably
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around 16 or 20 weeks and I posted it about it on Facebook.
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The first time that he was out and not making noise, I had a
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moment of terror and I turned around and he was laying down on
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his own, having a quiet moment. And it's like this, this, this
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moment where you have a puppy and you are like, so it's a full
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time job. You're 150 hours a week, just
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like doing this thing, right? Yeah.
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And then all of a sudden they have a shift in their brain
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where they're like, I actually can just lay down on my own and
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like, have a little nap. And then three seconds later,
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they're in the garbage can. But it's this little, I don't
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know, this time shift that happens and you're just like,
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oh, it's a glimpse into my future.
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At some point there will be an adult and they will just exist
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and it will be beautiful. But it's also you're hoping for.
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Adulthood and I'm like just I was.
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I was. About to say, I was about to
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say, but then that's also the shift where you lose all of the
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best parts of them being a baby puppy because they, they are
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starting to like be autonomous in a way, you know?
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And so it's this little happy but sad moment 'cause you're
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just like, oh, the little baby stage is ending.
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And Oh no, of course then adolescence is right around the
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corner. But I get what you're saying.
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I really do. And obviously some puppies are
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harder than others. I think it's very obvious that
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trend was a difficult puppy. And that's coming from someone
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who is highly prepared, I think that breed and and genetics and
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their start in life and all, there's so many things that goes
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into that. But there's just like this, such
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a really cool innocence and just openness of possibilities that
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come with a puppy. And I love it.
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Yeah, I get the openness and possibilities I did find.
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So this puppy was amazing and she actually could entertain
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herself. Which is awesome.
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Which is amazing at 9 weeks old, that's insane.
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But often it was like she she loved being in the grass and
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then playing with a toy in the grass, and that's where she
10:44
could kind of entertain herself. But you can't just leave a puppy
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outside without eyes on it. So even when she was
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entertaining herself, I had to be standing and watching like I
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might be able to wash a dish while I looked out the window at
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her. But.
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Such a full. Time job, my eyeballs on her,
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yes. And you have an amazing adult
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dog who's helping you along the way.
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Jackson's doing a good job, but then you also are spending time
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advocating for your adult dog. And I think we should talk about
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that too, because you did a really good job.
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And I think that it's something that we don't.
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We talk about puppies, but we don't talk about the adult dog
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that's in the situation necessarily as much.
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Because what the fuck? There's a really cute puppy
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there. So huh.
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Yeah. But talk about Jackson and what
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the weekend look like for him with this little puppy.
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Yeah, so Jackson and I are on the same page.
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We will be a puppy. Jackson made it a be hater puppy
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hater. So I was so impressed with
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Jackson overall. I feel like I've been so lucky
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with both Lucy and Jackson to have these dogs who just get
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along with other dogs can be in all these situations and just
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rise to the occasion. So with that said, so Jackson
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thought the puppy was really fun for probably like 15 hours.
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He was very excited about the puppy.
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And then he discovered her teeth, and he was very unexcited
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about the puppy and that transition from playing with her
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to hiding from her and hiding behind me and coming to me for
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help and staying on the couch where she couldn't get him or
12:30
staying on the bed. But he doesn't want to just stay
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on the couch in the bed. He wants to, like, be live in
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his home for places. Yeah.
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So. Yeah.
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So all of that. He was much more comfortable if
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she was in the X pen where he could just like come and but
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also he is an only child. So even in the X-Men, he's like,
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well, why are you spending all day with my mom?
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I should be in here too, spending all day with my mom and
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I'm like, you can just go like a normal everyday buddy.
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Just go do your thing and then I'll let her out of the X-Men
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up. But she's.
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With you, I want to be there too.
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She's within arm's reach. I should be within arm's reach.
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There was a lot of distracting her from Jackson and and then
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Jackson wanted to sit on my lap for protection, which is the
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worst place to be for protection because I can't see where the
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puppy is then. And there's no way for me to
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guard him because I'm trying to reach around him to be like, no
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puppy don't bite his feet. It says choose a side buddy,
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choose a side, one side or the other so I can help me out.
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But there was a lot of blocking teeth and allowing him downtime,
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and that was, you know, I have to say he was really happy to
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see her go home. Yeah.
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And when she's probably a year, they're going to be great
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friends, like he's going to love her.
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But I thought, man, doing this full time over months on end,
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that's a lot of work until like the puppy gets to a place where
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your dog does enjoy them. That's so much work.
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And if you have a dog that's not enjoying the puppy, you really
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do owe it to them to protect them and to advocate for them
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and give them the space that they need.
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Yeah, yeah, he, he went to the door several times and just
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stood there and looked at it. I was like, you can't leave bud
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like. He's like peace out.
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Here's the thing though, too. It is different for you having a
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puppy for a few days versus someone bringing a puppy into
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their home. Like long term.
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The things that you say about advocating for your adult dog
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100% I agree with. And I think that when you're
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going into it with the mindset of this puppy lives here now,
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there are things that you can employ that are management
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tactics that make things a lot more manageable between all the
15:08
dogs in the house. So of course you're not going to
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put up baby gates and whatever when this isn't a long term
15:14
thing, but. I did definitely did consider it
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actually. Well, fair, but, but.
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You saw a light at the end of the tunnel of the weekend.
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I think that gates are a wonderful tool.
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Absolutely. I use them without puppies just
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in a multi dog household and so I always say baby gates X pens
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are huge tools. I also think that tethering the
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puppy to the human, and of course this is long term stuff,
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not just a puppy for a weekend, but tethering the puppy to the
15:49
adult in the room can make a big difference too.
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Because then the dogs who are the adult dogs have a choice of
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getting away and the puppy can't follow them.
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Christy shared a video with our little friend group and it was
16:04
literally of the little puppy and Jackson going round and
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round and round the coffee table.
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And we were just like, I was dying laughing because Jackson
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is not being harmed. It's all fine.
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Yeah. But of course, he initiated
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that, actually, yeah, Just, you know.
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That is not something that you would allow to happen long term,
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right? So that's a place where tether
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would be super helpful because the puppy doesn't have the
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opportunity to harass. It's when the when the play
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turns to harassment. And some adult dogs are more
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tolerant of shark teeth than others.
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And so just like our last episode, so we talked about the
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dog gets to decide, right? If your adult dog is tolerant of
16:50
your puppy to a point, then it's up to you to then step in and
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say, OK, everyone's tired, everyone's had enough.
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And we're going to we're going to separate.
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We're going to use whatever we have to do to to give time.
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But they're again, using gates, using X pens, using frozen
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treats for the puppy to have something to do and then also
17:12
the adult dog so that they feel like, OK, they're having some
17:16
sort of enrichment and also getting a little extra too, I
17:20
think is a really good idea. I also think doing things with
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your adult dog that don't involve your puppy.
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Yes. Which I'm sure you did, because
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Jackson probably still got his walks.
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Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, he would. He would look at his leash too.
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He was yes, we get this is the break I want.
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Yes, typically I'm like, okay, yeah, let's do that.
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And so doing his regular walks was advocating for him as well.
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So I think that it's really important, just like you did
17:49
with Jackson to do those events with your current dogs, whomever
17:54
they might be where they have space away, they get a break.
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It's also good for you to get a break for mentally you to
18:02
decompress because puppies are a lot.
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So I think that like using management, using gates, using X
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pens, using crates, We personally, I'm just going to
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say in my opinion, we should be crate training the puppy anyway.
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So using all those tools and then using like special treats,
18:18
frozen stuff, feeders, whatever. The one thing that you didn't
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do, of course, because you had the puppy for three days was you
18:27
also weren't employing any training.
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And so I could. Even think about it because I'm
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not a puppy person. Well, I'm not a puppy person, so
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I assume babies can't learn, which is so ridiculous in the
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world. I don't know.
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But then I'll at the same time, I was like, I can't believe this
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dog didn't, you know, learn this earlier.
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And so it's a she what's up? It was a parent.
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Was she in nine weeks, 9 weeks? I'm like, she's just the whole
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weekend. I said she's just a baby.
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Yeah, all weekend, but. She's also working line baby.
19:00
She's a Doberman like girl can learn.
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So I would employ like I joked with Christy.
19:05
I was like, I didn't even come and see her because I knew if I
19:09
got my hands on her I just want to start teaching her things and
19:11
she's not my puppies so that's not appropriate.
19:13
But everyone has their own methods.
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But I absolutely would employ training sessions.
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I don't give a crap if all your training is a hand target or
19:27
throwing food and having your puppy go and get it and come
19:31
back to you. It doesn't matter.
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It's just something to like. We did do that.
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Oh. Very good something.
19:36
That we were training. Yeah, something that's working
19:40
their brain so that they are tiring out because a tire puppy
19:47
is a good puppy. I would also say an enriched
19:50
puppy is a good puppy. So if you can use training as a
19:55
way as simple or as not simple as possible to like get you over
19:59
the humps to to like help wear them out so that the adult dogs
20:03
in the house can have a break. Yeah.
20:06
Well, and what I was thinking is why I had her was I do knows
20:12
some people who have gotten puppies with their adult dogs.
20:16
And what I see is not putting those management strategies in
20:21
that you talked about with baby gates and all these things and
20:24
they just expect their adult dog to deal with it.
20:28
Oh. Yeah.
20:29
And I just feel like that's a lot and like, we just shouldn't
20:33
be expecting our adult dogs to not have a break to have this
20:39
new roommate who like, Can you imagine if you were in a
20:42
roommate situation and your other roommates, like, by the
20:47
way, we're renting out the third room.
20:50
To a newborn. To well to this to this new guy
20:54
who's going to and the new guy's like, hey, don't mind me I'm
20:57
going to pop in your room every 5 seconds.
20:59
Also, I'm just going to poke you for no reason.
21:02
Also, are you going to eat your food?
21:05
Like oh, what you doing in there girl?
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I'm going to oh, so sometimes I'm just going to randomly bite
21:12
you like yeah, this is terrible. Yes.
21:17
I agree with you. I think that we have to find a
21:22
balance and some dogs look, Tiago loves puppies.
21:28
He would have. Been in his element, right?
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But even a dog like Thiago or Lucy will get tired.
21:37
Even a dog like Thiago or Lucy may run out of spoons.
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Even a dog like Thiago or Lucy who really, truly love being
21:45
around puppies and enjoy it will get to their the end of their
21:49
rope. I love puppies.
21:51
I am in a space in my life where I actually love puppies and I
21:55
too get tired, right? So I think it is important even
22:00
if you're sitting there saying, yeah, but my dog loves puppies,
22:03
OK, cool. But then we still have to pay
22:05
attention. It doesn't mean just because my
22:07
adult dog loves puppies that it's like a free for all.
22:10
We just want to make sure that we're paying attention.
22:13
And because we don't want to break our dog who loves puppies
22:17
or tolerates puppies, we never want to break that.
22:19
That's a beautiful thing. And also the way we feel
22:24
changes. So part of the reason I don't
22:27
train puppies anymore, unfortunately, is because Tiago,
22:31
it is not right for him, for his spot in life.
22:34
And that is because he is where he is at 9 1/2.
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But I also have Trin. And here's what I realize.
22:43
She is not the right dog. That is not a space that she
22:47
enjoys. So we have to make sure that we
22:51
understand that feelings can change, that health changes,
22:55
tolerances change depending on the age of our dogs and their
22:59
development. And just be aware that we have
23:01
to like, keep that in mind as time goes on.
23:04
Yeah, but and one that I did have when I had when I had the
23:08
puppy over here was if this puppy, like, I know I don't have
23:12
a doubt that when this puppy is a little more robust and it can
23:17
play a little differently, Jackson's gonna love it.
23:20
Yeah. And I trust Jackson with
23:23
puppies. He's great with them, but he
23:25
doesn't enjoy them. But yeah, if that puppy was
23:28
living with us full time, I do think we would have a harder
23:33
time building that relationship when it crosses over into the
23:38
the adult because that's a long time to have nine months or six
23:43
months of I don't like this, I don't like this, I don't like
23:46
this. And then all of a sudden you
23:49
expect them to be friends. It's not going to be a problem
23:52
because that puppy doesn't live here.
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And I am seeing that with one of my neighbors is that Jackson
24:00
didn't like the puppy she brought home when it was a
24:02
puppy. Amazing friends.
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Now they play for probably 3 hours every time she comes and
24:09
gets them or I get her dogs. Him and that puppy are such good
24:13
friends. They're like she's probably
24:14
between 9 and 12 months old now. Her adult dog still does not
24:19
like that puppy. Yep, and I don't think that's
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ever he. Tolerates her?
24:24
Yep. And it's fine, but he won't play
24:27
with her. He's not interested.
24:29
And I don't think that's going to be fixed.
24:31
I don't know. I hope so, but I think he's just
24:34
had these this, you know, 8 months of or six months of bad
24:39
feelings towards this puppy. And I think that's kind of just
24:43
that end now. But it also depends on the adult
24:46
dog stage in life as well, right?
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There's a huge age gap between that puppy and that dog.
24:52
And so I think that there's a lot of factors that go into that
24:55
too. You know, usually you get
24:59
through the shark teeth phase around 4 to 6 months depending
25:03
on puppy. And I think that that is a big
25:07
transition when the shark teeth go away.
25:09
Yeah. The problem is that when you
25:11
have or could be a problem when you have an, an adult dog that
25:15
doesn't have the energy level of the puppy, then they're hitting,
25:18
hitting, striding right into adolescence.
25:21
And you have Jackson who's now like, oh, she doesn't have shark
25:25
teeth anymore and she's learned some boundaries.
25:27
I'm in. He is all in, right?
25:30
Because that is his jam and like Trent is boring to him at this
25:35
point. He wants that puppy and whereas.
25:39
Trent is like, really calm down. He's like, he's like a little.
25:42
More, can we get some more out of you?
25:45
Whereas the, the neighbor dog that you're talking about, the
25:49
dog that she's living with is much older than Jackson and
25:52
probably had a different play scale.
25:55
Overall in life, he's a bigger dog.
25:58
There's a lot of different factors, right?
26:00
He's only two years older than Jackson, but that's a lot.
26:03
Though. But that's a lot, and he's such
26:06
a large. Breed.
26:07
Yes. That he's really in his senior
26:11
years. Yes, it's a six years old.
26:14
Yes, we're getting into senior and then, you know, if you have
26:17
joint problems going, I'm not saying this dog does, but like
26:20
in general when large breeds get older, they have different pain
26:25
issues, whatever, there's a lot of stuff going on.
26:28
So I think that that's a factor. But you, I do believe that you
26:33
can have a young dog and then have an older dog that only
26:37
tolerates and do it really well. You, it's just a little bit more
26:41
work because you need to commit to making sure that both dogs
26:45
are getting what they need. And of course the younger dog is
26:47
going to need more than what the older dog needs.
26:50
But you can do it. And then it's hard to, I think
26:56
in that case also, and I and I 100% agree with you, I think
27:01
it's absolutely doable. I also think it's difficult then
27:04
to not feel like you're giving all the attention to the puppy
27:10
who needs all that time and neglecting the old dog who
27:14
doesn't need all that time. You know, it it, all of it is a
27:18
balance. And yeah, it's just something to
27:19
be aware of. Yeah, To be honest, most of the
27:22
time I feel torn in half in my own house, you know, because
27:25
trend needs a lot. I have committed to taking on a
27:29
dog that needs a lot. And that is not meant in a bad
27:31
way. She needs fulfillment.
27:33
She needs to work her brain. She needs to train.
27:35
She wants to do the things. And then I have my boys and they
27:40
do not need all of that. Their bodies won't allow as much
27:45
of that. And so finding the balance be
27:48
between those two very different scales can be sometimes really
27:54
difficult. Yeah.
27:55
And it's something that can be ever changing, right.
27:59
So as long as we're aware, then I think that that helps us to
28:04
make sure that we're keeping things in mind and making
28:08
adjustments when we need to. Absolutely, yeah.
28:12
So you're not going to sign up for a Doberman puppy tomorrow?
28:16
I mean no when when the rescue has an old Doberman maybe, but I
28:22
feel like I. I really feel like there's a
28:23
Doberman in your future. I feel like it's a breed for
28:26
you. I really, really do.
28:28
I know I'm not convinced there isn't a Doberman in my future.
28:33
It would make me so incredibly happy if you got a Doberman.
28:36
But I really love having one dog.
28:39
So I know you do. I know.
28:40
And Jackson's going to live for 75 years, just like Tiago, So
28:43
we're not talking about that. No, exactly.
28:47
You know a friend of mine has a litter of pug puppies that are.
28:52
There are not pugs in my future. I don't know, I think there
28:57
could be a pug in my future. These.
28:59
Well, only from her. She is the only person I would
29:02
consider a pug from, but I just she does so much recording of
29:06
the puppies growing up, the litters and everything they do
29:09
with them and they're like different milestones and
29:12
watching their little personalities come out.
29:15
I told her the other day that her puppy videos and watching
29:19
them and listening to her talk to the puppies on the videos is
29:23
like a dopamine hit and I'm come there like to her wall everyday
29:26
just to watch puppy TV. It's like puts me in a good
29:29
headspace. But it is cool to watch the
29:34
development from when the day they're born up to where they
29:38
are now, which is like maybe 9 weeks actually and getting ready
29:42
to go home. And now they've all been chosen
29:45
for their different homes and matched to their owners.
29:49
And she was telling me about that process, you know, and it's
29:53
so cool to like see their little personalities come out.
29:56
I don't know. I will say that is another thing
30:00
that I was impressed with having a puppy here was that you can
30:04
tell so much about their personality already.
30:08
I remember when I was started in rescue, you go through the
30:12
little training and the person doing the training had years of
30:15
experience with dogs, had raised foster litters, all of it.
30:21
And she said in training a puppy's a puppy, you don't
30:25
really need a lot of time. Just choose one of them, like
30:28
they're all the same. And I was like, oh, OK, that's
30:31
and I kind of took that with me because I didn't know much at
30:34
the time. And then dog sitting Desi, I was
30:37
like, oh, I'm so impressed with her toy drive at 9 weeks.
30:40
Like you can see that toy drive. I'm impressed with how curious
30:45
she is about things and how she thinks about things.
30:48
OK, how's that going to work? And you could see her thinking
30:51
through how to approach things and how to get what she wanted,
30:56
not in a manipulative way, but just like consider, you know,
30:59
she's. Processing she's.
31:00
Processing the whole world, you know, And then her playfulness
31:05
and then her sweetness and her confidence.
31:08
And yes, and often I think we will, we say like, oh, that
31:13
puppy's really confident, but they're kind of, you know, like
31:16
a jerk to other dogs or whatever.
31:18
Yeah. Now she was just, she was fully
31:20
confident in her, in herself, and yet so respectful to Jackson
31:25
when he would tell her no. She, I mean, she was persistent.
31:29
Yeah. Because puppies are but but she
31:32
would back off then you know, and.
31:34
And so I thought, man, you can tell so much at such a young
31:39
age. Oh yeah, personalities.
31:41
Start coming out three to four weeks, man, and they start
31:45
coming out. I am convinced that Trin's
31:49
breeder knew that Trin was my puppy.
31:52
I should ask her by the time she was like 3 1/2 four weeks old,
31:57
I, I think that she knew that that once the personality
32:01
started to emerge, I think she knew personality wise that she
32:05
was what I was looking for. And it like that's so cool.
32:10
When I was talking to my friend that has this pug litter, it's
32:13
the same for them. Of course, they only breed a
32:16
litter when they want to keep a puppy back to show.
32:19
And then of course they have a wait list.
32:20
And so it was interesting because I was asking her like,
32:24
what are the variety of who do you have on your list that
32:27
puppies are going to? Because I was curious.
32:28
And she's like, oh, we have a performance home, a dog trainer
32:31
that wants their next demo dog and blah, blah, blah, blah,
32:33
blah. And yeah, so that was really
32:35
cool. And so I was spending time
32:39
watching the puppies and thinking because like, that
32:43
would be the puppy I would want. And so I was watching the
32:47
puppies and being like, oh, which one do I think is going to
32:51
be the puppy that goes to that home?
32:56
And the one that I would have said was my first pick was the
33:03
pick that my friend kept. And then the other pic was super
33:09
confident, crazy. I mean, these puppies were on a
33:11
wobble board at like 3 weeks old.
33:13
They're, they're crazy awesome. He and then that was the puppy
33:16
that they picked for the person who's going to use the, the
33:19
performance dog and everything. And I was like, it's so cool.
33:23
It's so cool to watch. And she is the friend who from
33:27
the beginning said that Trin was my puppy.
33:30
She loved the little eye patch dog from the beginning.
33:34
She was like, that's what's your puppy?
33:37
Yeah. So it's, it's just neat to like
33:39
watch the whole process. I I just find a lot of interest
33:43
in it from like behavior standpoint, even regardless of
33:46
puppies, just the behavior part of it.
33:48
Yeah, it will. And so one thing I did ask
33:51
Heather before we even got started was behaviorally like
33:55
when do we go from as people, as a community, as a society, go
34:02
from, oh, this is just a baby who has is scared, who is
34:06
experiencing things that are new.
34:09
And this is all of these things to you're you're a dog.
34:14
Get it together, get it together, get over it.
34:17
Like you shouldn't be scared. You shouldn't have good
34:20
feelings. You shouldn't.
34:21
Where does that? I don't know when that happens,
34:25
but clearly like the first night, I did not realize that
34:29
this puppy had gone from mom and litter to a house full of other
34:33
Dobermans, was sleeping in crates next to those dobermans,
34:36
and then was also sleeping in bed with the owner.
34:39
So I didn't know that going in. That was my bad.
34:42
Transition. Her first, yeah.
34:44
That's not your bad I you just. Didn't realize, I didn't realize
34:47
and I should have asked probably.
34:48
And so I had her close by just in the hallway but outside of my
34:52
room and she cried for hours the first night and I was sleep
34:57
deprived and I was struggling, but I was never like, get it
35:03
together dog. You know, you should be better.
35:06
I was like, you're just a baby. But like, I don't know how to
35:09
help you. Yes, as a baby.
35:11
And and of course I reached out together and said I am open for
35:14
suggestions please. What do I do?
35:17
But at the same time, the owner asked how it went.
35:19
And I, I was pretty honest with her too.
35:22
And she said, oh, I'm sorry, here's what's happened.
35:25
And I said, you know what, I'm going to change my plan, putting
35:28
an X pin next to my bed so that I can reach my fingers in there
35:32
and, and let her know I'm right there if she if she's upset, you
35:37
know, and. What else did you do?
35:39
We also what tell us the best thing.
35:43
Her frozen tree? No, I also sing to her.
35:48
She sang her little lullaby songs and it is the best thing
35:52
I've ever heard and it worked. It started with just like,
35:56
you're okay. Does he?
35:57
You're okay? Does he, you're okay does he
35:59
just repeated. And then I was like, and I just
36:02
started singing about deprivation.
36:05
I love it, but she's going to sleep.
36:09
Christina's deprived to sleep. That's amazing.
36:13
It's so amazing. But she did enjoy my singing
36:16
sometimes and it it did work so, but I mean.
36:21
You did reach out for help. I did reach out for help, but as
36:27
I was going through that, I thought, when do we change from
36:30
being so? Because anyone I shared that
36:33
with was like, she's just a baby.
36:36
And I'm like, yeah, like, we all recognize she's just a baby.
36:39
She can't help that. That's so sad.
36:41
She's scared. I want to do everything I can to
36:44
make her more comfortable, including singing and my
36:47
terrible singing. But then why, when they get
36:50
older, is it get it together, Stop crying in your kennel.
36:56
Where does that? And I don't know where that
36:58
transition happens, but I definitely have.
37:02
I love this question. And you know, Christy asked me
37:05
before we started recording and at first my answer was, I feel
37:10
like for me, the transition happens when I know they can
37:13
make it through the night without having to go potty.
37:16
And so then my expectation is you sleep through the night and
37:21
if you, unless something's wrong, like, oh, you have to
37:25
like you get sick or something like that, that that's
37:27
different. We're not talking about that.
37:28
And then I was thinking to myself that and said to Christy,
37:33
I think with Tran, she was well over six months old and we still
37:37
had her kennel in our room. Now I transitioned from her
37:43
kennel to be being on our bed to being beside my side of the bed,
37:47
to moving it to the bottom of the bed to moving it further
37:50
away. There was a whole process in
37:52
this, which is the first time in my life that I have raised and
37:58
crate trained a puppy in that way overnight.
38:02
I'll be honest, it's a different world.
38:04
We understand more. Also, Tiago was sleeping in his
38:09
big boy kennel at 13 weeks because he was perfect.
38:12
So of course, but I, I also recognize that I had a French
38:18
bulldog and their tendency to relax and be quiet and their
38:22
kennel is not necessarily on same par with a breed like a
38:26
Rottweiler. So I took that into account too.
38:28
And also her being smaller. So there was a point and I feel
38:33
like that point was when she transitioned to her big girl
38:37
kennel and like went to the dog room.
38:40
And so that was probably somewhere between 8 and 12
38:45
months. I don't even remember, but
38:46
somewhere around there. And then that is the point where
38:49
I'm like, OK, bitch, just you know what to do.
38:53
Like you're fine. But I don't.
38:57
That is an interesting question. At what point do we just say
39:03
like, why can't you just get over it and why do we get to
39:06
that point? I don't know.
39:08
I think for me, one, the answer I already gave, and then two, I
39:14
do a lot to support my puppies in getting there.
39:19
So I'm very methodical typically or try my best to be methodical
39:24
to support them in how to do that and be quiet and be
39:29
comfortable. So then I think as they show me
39:33
that they can do that, then my expectation grows.
39:37
So I would say my answer is it's different for every dog
39:40
depending on what they show me. How's that?
39:44
But, well, it's fine, but I don't know that you lose
39:52
compassion for your dogs. Me personally, yeah, when
39:57
they're yeah. And that's what I think I'm
39:59
saying is like we lose as a society, we lose compassion for
40:04
our dogs because everyone's compassionate about that puppy.
40:07
Like, Oh my gosh, he's just. I.
40:09
Don't think everyone is, I think there are some plenty of people
40:13
who would be like fuck that, let her cry it out.
40:15
Right. And OK, so I don't think I
40:18
shared this. There was a part of me that's
40:20
like, OK, when I think the last time I raised a puppy, the
40:23
theory was let them cry it out. And I was like, that doesn't
40:27
feel right. But in I'm messing up if I go
40:32
and help her like where? And that's why I reached out
40:36
because I was like, I want to help her, but like, am I?
40:39
Am I screwing the owner? Because now, now she's like, oh,
40:43
good. I get to cry and like you, come
40:45
to my aid many times a night. And it's definitely harder when
40:50
it's not your puppy, right? Because you don't want to mess
40:52
someone else's plan up. Yeah, but.
40:55
Also, I want some sleep. Yeah, that too.
40:58
So there was that and I was like, I think that's outdated,
41:01
but I'm not totally sure. I think there's and turns out at
41:06
3:30 in the morning, your brain doesn't be like oh you should
41:09
Google that and see and start doing a whole.
41:12
Research, can't imagine why I think that there.
41:16
I think it's like a a distinct difference in methods, and I
41:22
think that there's what I now consider the most current way of
41:31
doing things, which would be to offer support.
41:34
Am I going to like run to my dog's crate?
41:37
If I ran to Tater's crate every time he decided to bark one time
41:40
because I was 5 minutes late with his dinner, I would do a
41:43
lot of running. True story.
41:45
OK, for sure. So I think that when it's your
41:48
personal dog, you make decisions based on the dog in front of you
41:52
too. And you know what you have and
41:55
haven't done. Tater has a very, very distinct
41:58
I want my fucking dinner bark versus I might ship my pants
42:02
bark. There's no question, right?
42:04
We learned different things, but.
42:06
I. Do think that it depends on the
42:08
person's training style and what their belief system is.
42:11
My belief system today is I want to go support that puppy 10
42:15
years ago, or well, not Thiago, he doesn't count.
42:18
But Lucy, my belief system in 2005 was you let that bitch cry
42:23
it out until she gets over it. So there you go.
42:27
I think it depends. Yeah, and there is like I
42:31
recognize in Jackson, we in my family, we say, oh, he's big
42:36
mad. Oh yeah, yeah, big.
42:38
Mad. He's big mad yeah, and.
42:41
And I'm, I often say like he's big mad when when he's being
42:46
left out, like he knows people are are coming over and then he
42:49
doesn't get to go see them. And so then that is like a, he
42:53
has his mad bark. Like I want to be a part of
42:56
that. Yeah.
42:57
And then he has this distressed bark, which is very different.
43:01
Like the bulldog? Yeah.
43:02
Yeah, yeah. And I do like even in Barn Hunt
43:05
when we were learning to you stay in the crate with the gate
43:10
open to the, you know, to the Forerunner, there were times
43:14
where he he would go do really well and then he'd just decide
43:17
to bark. And I could shout out like, hey,
43:20
buddy, you're OK. There's a difference too.
43:22
Sometimes I would say, Buddy, you're OK.
43:24
And sometimes I'd be like Jack stop.
43:28
And he'd be like, oh, OK, yeah. So you do reference.
43:33
There, Meanwhile, if Thiago was created at my home and barked,
43:38
I'd be like, he's dying, he's on fire, I need to go right.
43:41
Because he does not. So yeah, I think it just
43:44
depends. But it is interesting to think
43:47
about. Where do we stop being?
43:49
Oh, we're nurturing this little baby dog and we're nurturing
43:53
their little, their little self and trying to support them to
43:56
get your shit together. You're a grown up.
44:01
Yeah. And maybe I mean, at large, we
44:04
do that to people too, you know, So it just it makes sense that
44:08
it comes down to the dogs as well.
44:11
Yeah. So I hope that if you have a
44:14
puppy out there, that you're enjoying them and not like
44:18
Christy and that you're actually having fun.
44:22
I am so thankful that there are puppy people out there because
44:25
we obviously have to have puppies to have adult dogs.
44:28
Yeah, so I'm very thankful for you puppy people, but also like,
44:34
give me all the adult ducks. Wouldn't it be interesting in
44:37
another 10 years I was like, fuck puppies.
44:40
Like I transitioned from being like no puppies to being like
44:43
no, I actually want the puppies. Give me all the puppies and if I
44:46
like transition back to be like no thank you, Maybe I'll get old
44:50
and crotchety and be over it. I think maybe I'm just old and
44:54
crotchety before my time. Maybe that's where I am.
44:58
Maybe that's why I don't like puppies.
45:01
That's hilarious. I can't wait until I get my next
45:04
puppy and I'm like force you to be like.
45:06
No, maybe I like puppies. I'm like other people's puppies.
45:11
Yeah, I like that they're going home.
45:14
That's it, that's it. You like Desi?
45:16
She went home. She'll be your best friend in a.
45:18
Year. Oh my gosh, I love her so much
45:19
already. Yeah, it's sweet.
45:22
Everybody enjoy your puppies. And if you have a puppy in your
45:25
house, tell us about it. We want to hear.
45:27
Yes, tell us. Tell us, too, why you love
45:30
puppies or why you love adult dogs.
45:32
Oh, I would love to hear that. Maybe we'll do a poll.
45:35
Christy, you're going to have to do a little puppy reel for
45:38
Instagram so that people can tell us are they pro puppy or no
45:41
puppy. Yeah, yeah.
45:43
I love it. If you've enjoyed this episode,
45:47
subscribe, rate and share us wherever you get your podcast.
45:51
Also come on over to Instagram and engage with us at Sometimes
45:55
Their Side Eye. Thanks for listening everybody.
45:58
Talk to you next time. Bye bye.