Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / CLP's Bill Yan says overcrowding in prisons is a serious safety risk for inmates and staff that needs to be addressed

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CLP's Bill Yan says overcrowding in prisons is a serious safety risk for inmates and staff that needs to be addressed · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio right now is the Oppositions
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  Speaker 1: Opposition member Bill Yan, a member for Namajira.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Bill, Good morning Katie, and good
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  Speaker 2: morning to your listeners.
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  Speaker 1: Bill. I've no doubt that the people of Valice Springs
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  Speaker 1: are incredibly sad to wake to this news.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, what happened? Yes, absolute Tragy. I really feel
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  Speaker 3: for Robin. Yeah tough.
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  Speaker 4: It's really tough.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, I think that, like I guess on
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  Speaker 1: this show a lot of the time as well, we
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  Speaker 1: all have lots of different political Argibarjie about different things.
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  Speaker 1: But you and I both incredibly upset I think for
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  Speaker 1: Robin today, and I think the whole community is. What
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  Speaker 1: I do know about Robin is that she's a really loving.
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  Speaker 2: Mumken Forward, I said, it's really, really difficult because as parents,
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  Speaker 2: you're always looking out for your kids.
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  Speaker 3: You always want your kids to do the best.
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  Speaker 2: And yeah, I got the news last night, and yeah,
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  Speaker 2: rocked me really bad because yeah, I said, local boy,
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  Speaker 2: local family ran the same age as my kids.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah you just got to go where.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so much love for them this morning, and I'm
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  Speaker 1: sure that the whole community will be rallying behind them. Bill,
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  Speaker 1: let's talk about some of the other very serious issues
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  Speaker 1: that we have been talking about throughout the week. And
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  Speaker 1: I know yesterday you probably heard John Lawrence sc joined
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  Speaker 1: us on the show telling us about the current conditions
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  Speaker 1: in the Holtz Prison. Now, he spoke about significant overcrowding,
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  Speaker 1: the inability for programs to be delivered.
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  Speaker 4: If you miss that interview.
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  Speaker 1: Yesterday, we'll just take a very quick listen to what
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  Speaker 1: John Lawrence had to say.
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  Speaker 5: The Minister ising breaching grossly her duty of care and
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  Speaker 5: keeping prisoners in the conditions that they currently suffer under,
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  Speaker 5: for instance, the overcrowding thing that claim. So on Friday,
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  Speaker 5: he's in a sale for two and he's number three
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  Speaker 5: and he's slipping on the floor and the other two
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  Speaker 5: a in bunk beds. Now, this is going on all
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  Speaker 5: around the prison. There are even prisoners sleeping on mattresses
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  Speaker 5: in the reception area. Now that's just not on and
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  Speaker 5: it's probably unlawful. And unless somebody puts their hand up,
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  Speaker 5: puts the foot in the door, makes a statement says
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  Speaker 5: not good enough, fix it, it's going to deteriorate. And
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  Speaker 5: it's mon etna. You know, a prison in situation like
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  Speaker 5: that full of men with backgrounds such as that is
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  Speaker 5: a volcano.
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  Speaker 1: So that was John Lawrence sc on the show yesterday.
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  Speaker 1: Now Bill, the Northern Territory Government says that NTCS serves
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  Speaker 1: the courts and acknowledges their responsibility to provide access to
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  Speaker 1: justice for all prisoners, and the high number of remand
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  Speaker 1: prisoners creates an extra challenge to ensure timely access for
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  Speaker 1: their legal representatives. They go on to say in this statement,
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  Speaker 1: overcrowded accommodation arrangements are not ideal, but NTCS considers they
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  Speaker 1: are adequate to ensure safety, decency and wellbeing of all prisoners.
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  Speaker 4: Bill, is that good enough?
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  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, Look, there's been one I did A and yews
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  Speaker 2: with corrections and there's been one constant in my aden
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  Speaker 2: years with corrections, and that's prison numbers continue to increase.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 2: The Labor government built the new prison out at Holts
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  Speaker 2: a number of years ago, and it was a sort
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  Speaker 2: of a billet and they will come because the minute
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  Speaker 2: it opened it was pretty well full, and Alic Springs
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  Speaker 2: was full and we're seen.
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  Speaker 3: I believe the highest number.
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  Speaker 2: Of prisons in Cussing the moment is over twelve hundred
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  Speaker 2: in Holts and nearly six hundred and fifty in our
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  Speaker 2: Springs there at capacity.
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  Speaker 3: So I wonder what has the government done.
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  Speaker 2: Knowing that there was going to be these continued increases
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  Speaker 2: in this continued escalation in prison numbers.
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  Speaker 3: And it goes straight back to crime, Katie.
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  Speaker 2: If people weren't committing offenses and committing crimes, they wouldn't
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  Speaker 2: be in jail. So there's some stuff the government need
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  Speaker 2: to do at the front end that they've sort of
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  Speaker 2: dropped the ball on, because if the offenses weren't happening,
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  Speaker 2: people wouldn't be in jail and we wouldn't see the
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  Speaker 2: numbers that we are. But the numbers are increasing. Where
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  Speaker 2: are they going to go? Because you can't keep jamming
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  Speaker 2: them in.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I know some people listening will be thinking to themselves, Well,
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  Speaker 1: the CLP, you know, does want people to be well,
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  Speaker 1: does want you know, to be tougher on crime. You
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  Speaker 1: want the two kilometer rule, you want all these different
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  Speaker 1: things that would see more people locked up, But then
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  Speaker 1: the prisons are overflowing. Do your policies sort of you know,
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  Speaker 1: not match up with that.
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  Speaker 2: Look, we've got some policies I said, around particularly around
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  Speaker 2: young people are sentenced to a skill which is an
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  Speaker 2: alternative to custody because at the moment there's a.
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  Speaker 3: Huge gap in the youth space.
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  Speaker 2: So you've either got a diversion or pretty well you've
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  Speaker 2: got custody, and there's there's sort of nothing that sits
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  Speaker 2: in the middle.
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  Speaker 3: There's some opportunities for.
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  Speaker 2: Corrections to do some stuff outside of the custody environment.
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  Speaker 3: And we were looking at this a number of.
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  Speaker 2: Years ago, and that is people who were in the
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  Speaker 2: last part of the sentences finishing out the sentences on
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  Speaker 2: communities doing some reparation.
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  Speaker 3: Back into communities.
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  Speaker 2: I remember back in the day we were looking at
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  Speaker 2: work camps at nullam Boy Oh sorry, and we put
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  Speaker 2: the one in a But then I was looking further Afield, Borrow, Lula,
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  Speaker 2: the two ways, and they're great opportunities to put reparation
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  Speaker 2: activities back into communities. But this government hasn't pursued any
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  Speaker 2: of that bill.
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  Speaker 1: In your experience, are the prisons operating adequately and are
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  Speaker 1: there enough staff.
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  Speaker 2: At the moment? There's certainly not, Katie. There's been a
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  Speaker 2: favoring recruitment in corrections for a number of years and
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  Speaker 2: their staffing numbers didn't happen overnight. It's taken a long
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  Speaker 2: time to get to this point because they haven't been
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  Speaker 2: allowed to recruit properly, so that's why they're short staff now.
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  Speaker 2: And they've been restricted in budgets. So of course, the
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  Speaker 2: first thing that happens when you're restricting budgets, you pair
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  Speaker 2: back to your basics, which is safety and security.
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  Speaker 3: So all you're good to do, things.
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  Speaker 2: Disappear, which is your programs and things like that, and
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  Speaker 2: they're falling away. These are the things that need to
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  Speaker 2: come back. They need appropriate programs to address offending behavior.
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  Speaker 3: They need staff to do it. You've got to get
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  Speaker 3: them now. But they also need the adequate funding to
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  Speaker 3: be able to do that.
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  Speaker 4: To Bill, I said this yesterday to John Lawrence.
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  Speaker 1: Most people listening won't actually be over concerned if the
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  Speaker 1: prison's crowded. You know, they'll be thinking to themselves, well,
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  Speaker 1: these people are in prison for a reason.
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  Speaker 4: Why does it matter.
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  Speaker 3: Well, there's a number of facts there. Kay.
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  Speaker 2: Overcrowding can lead to other issues, which is friction and
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  Speaker 2: then violence. And of course, nobody wants to see anybody
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  Speaker 2: get hurt. And it doesn't matter who you are, you
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  Speaker 2: don't want to see someone be injured or hurt because
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  Speaker 2: somebody dropped the ball. But then it also it puts
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  Speaker 2: the staff at risk. The people are in there that
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  Speaker 2: have to look after the people that nobody else wants
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  Speaker 2: to face. The mantra with corrections is we face what
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  Speaker 2: you fear, and that's what they do. They're in there
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  Speaker 2: every day working with these people. When it's over crowded.
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  Speaker 2: It puts the staff at risk, it puts prisoners at risk,
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  Speaker 2: it puts everybody at risk. And we look we've seen
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  Speaker 2: with Holtz it blew up out there a couple of
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  Speaker 2: years ago, and then the territory has got to foot
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  Speaker 2: the bill to do the repairs to those places as well,
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  Speaker 2: so it affects everybody longer term.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Bill, you are indeed the opposition spokesperson for Housing,
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  Speaker 1: and I want to sort of move on to that
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  Speaker 1: for a moment because I understand there's been a situation
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  Speaker 1: where this situation has been revealed about seventy million dollars
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  Speaker 1: of rental debt being wiped. Now, it was revealed in
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  Speaker 1: the Australian newspaper that the government's been forced to write
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  Speaker 1: off about seventy million dollars worth of bungled remote rental
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  Speaker 1: debts amid a legal battle in which a tribunal found
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  Speaker 1: it could neither reinfal well, it could neither enforce these
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  Speaker 1: tenancy agreements nor prove how much tenants actually owed. So,
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  Speaker 1: according to this report by Amos Aigman, the funds which
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  Speaker 1: were meant to be collected and reinvested in upgrading some
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  Speaker 1: of that dilapidated Aboriginal housing pertained to seven seven hundred
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  Speaker 1: and forty six remote tenant accounts for which debts were
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  Speaker 1: deemed uneconomical or unable to be recovered.
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  Speaker 4: Bill, is this appropriate? What are you thinks going on here?
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  Speaker 2: It's really interesting when you look at those figures GAD
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  Speaker 2: recently in estimates, we actually asked the question how much
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  Speaker 2: debt was outstanding and we were told it was sixty million.
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  Speaker 2: So in the space for months has gone up by
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  Speaker 2: ten million. And the Minister told us at that point
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  Speaker 2: in time that government we're working on strategies to recover
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  Speaker 2: some of that debt.
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  Speaker 3: And of course we.
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  Speaker 2: Heard about the new rental framework and then a month later,
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  Speaker 2: bang or we're going to write off seventy million. Now
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  Speaker 2: who's approved that seventy million? Has the minister approved it?
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  Speaker 3: Did it?
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  Speaker 2: Have to go before cabinet or did it have to
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  Speaker 2: go before the championship event that's all not happened.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think do you think it should be written
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  Speaker 1: off for do you think that they should have to pay?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's really a complicated process because some of that
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  Speaker 2: debt is not going to be able to be recovered.
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  Speaker 2: It's as simple as that. And I get that, and
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  Speaker 2: I understandable. But some of it can possibly be recovered
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  Speaker 2: if people haven't been paying what they're supposed to. So
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  Speaker 2: why aren't we trying to get back some of that debt.
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  Speaker 2: We're nine billion dollars in debt now. Any dollar that
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  Speaker 2: we can get back into the territory coffers is a
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  Speaker 2: positive for us. And again, this is territory tax payers money.
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  Speaker 2: At the end of the day, it's coming out of
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  Speaker 2: their pocket. And seventy million bucks is not chicken feed.
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  Speaker 2: That's a lot of money.
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  Speaker 4: It's a lot of money now, as I understand.
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  Speaker 1: In this report, Daniel Kelly, a solicitor for the Australian
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  Speaker 1: Lawyers for Remost Aboriginal Rights representing two of the communities,
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  Speaker 1: said that his clients were faced with unsubstantiated accusations of
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  Speaker 1: rental debts on top of having no choice but to
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  Speaker 1: rent houses which are in humane. I mean, how would
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  Speaker 1: how would the CLP do things differently?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's about the housing that we've got out in
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  Speaker 2: the bushes, making sure that it's up to standard. If
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  Speaker 2: we're going to go down rental agreements, and it's changed
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  Speaker 2: with the rental framework, which are a completely different story. Again,
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  Speaker 2: we need to be reinvesting some of that money into
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  Speaker 2: those houses. People can't live in houses that are not
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  Speaker 2: fit for habitation. I've been there and seen some of
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  Speaker 2: the stuff here. I wouldn't I wouldn't live in it,
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  Speaker 2: and if I wouldn't live in it, I wouldn't expect
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  Speaker 2: anybody else to live in it, that's for sure. So
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  Speaker 2: we would be investing some of that rental money back
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  Speaker 2: into those community housing. And of course you need to
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  Speaker 2: then also work with the tenants and help them about
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  Speaker 2: how you look after a house and what you do
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  Speaker 2: and making sure your rent's paid.
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  Speaker 3: There's a whole raft of measures that we would need
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  Speaker 3: to be doing.
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  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, it's about providing
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  Speaker 2: appropriate housing. And I think the government tried to bully
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  Speaker 2: some of those communities when they were taken to court
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  Speaker 2: for that and so well, you are us a heap
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  Speaker 2: of rent and if you don't pay us rent, we're
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  Speaker 2: going to come after. And it was a bullying tactic
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  Speaker 2: from government against some of those communities who took them
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  Speaker 2: to task.
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  Speaker 4: Well, Bill yam, we are going to have to leave
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  Speaker 4: it there.
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  Speaker 1: The opposition spokesperson for Housing but also the member for Namajira,
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  Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time.
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  Speaker 2: Today, Thanks Katie, and just finish uplyre my thoughts with
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  Speaker 2: Robin and a family and all those people in the house.
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely thanks Bill, I appreciate it.