Latest / Recovery Chronicles / Recovery Chronicles Ep. 182 - Alex D.

Transcript

Recovery Chronicles Ep. 182 - Alex D. · Recovery Chronicles

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Recovery Chronicles. My name is John Tragg and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: my sober date is June seventeenth, twenty nineteen. Join me
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: as we hear from people who are on this journey
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: that recall recover show. All right, so welcome to this
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: episode of Recovery Chronicles. This is Joan Tragg, and today
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I have Alex with me. Welcome Alex, thanks for having me. Yeah,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: you bet so. Hey. I got your name from a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: friend of mine. She's heard some of your story. She's like,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: you got to talk to Alex. You got to hear
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: all about his journey. So I'm excited to hear more
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: about that and you'll share that with all of our followers.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: So here we go. So let's start off. So tell
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: me what's your sober.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Date and what's your drug of choice September twenty sixth
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two and basically heroin fetnah any pill down?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah, okay, So tell me a little bit about
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: let's start first, Like, just tell me about growing up,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: like where you're from or you know, family, any of
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I grew up here in Bismarck, small town. Well,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I guess I grew up in Baldwin, which is like
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: ten miles north of Bismarck or whatever. Sure, yeah, what
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: about family? Just I went to BHS for high school?
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah? What else?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So growing up was us er? Any of that
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: was at something?
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I started using at a young age, I have.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I'm the youngest of four okay, two older brothers and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: an older sister, and they introduced me to like weed
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: and and uh and pills and and things like that
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: at a very young age. And I started smoking weed
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: when I was like eleven.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, So so thoughts on that when you that's pretty young, right,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: So do you recall how you felt when you were
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: first experimenting with weed?
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Well, so, my home life was rough, right, There was
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of abuse, and my family separated. My mom
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: left my dad when I was I think eight for
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the first time, and then then separated for years. Okay,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: But the first time I smoked to eat it, it
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: was like the first time I felt relief, like just peace,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: you know. So I felt comfortable smoking, and so any
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: opportunity I could. So it started off, you know, once
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: a month, then too, as often as I possibly could.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Sure, So at that point, siblings are kind of inted
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: out a little bit too. So was it hard for
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you to to access it? Was it something that it was?
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: No, it was pretty much whenever I wanted it. My
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: brother always had it, you know, much more involved when
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: we were younger with that crowd, so finding anything that
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I wanted, and then I made that like my identity, right,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: like with the kids at school, Like I was the
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: bad kid, you know, and everybody knew that, and I
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: almost took pride in it, you know. But yeah, it
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: led to placement. I was in and out of placement
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: PLC Youth Correctional Center literally from the age of fourteen
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: until eighteen.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: So fourteen's first time you got into legal type step,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: got arrested, whatever, Yes, what was that like for you?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Well, so what happened was I had a friend staying
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: over and my brother gave us these pills, which he
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: did often, and they turned out to be like these
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: two I was just like some kind of hallucinogenic. Okay,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: So May my buddy were in my room and we're
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: laughing and giggling all night long. And so the next
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: morning we had school. My dad came down and woke
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: us up. And was like in a rush to get
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: to school, and he searched my room while we went
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: to go shower and found like my weed and my pipe,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: my cigarettes, my chew, you know. And I come downstairs
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: and he had already taken everything, so I didn't know.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: My buddy was like, oh, your dad found everything. So
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I went upstairs and talked to my dad and I
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: was like, just give me back my cigarettes, like I know,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: everything else not cool. But he knew I smoked cigarettes,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: and he was like, nope, the cops are on their way, okay.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And I was like, what do you mean, Like why
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: would you call the cops, you know? And so I
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: went downstairs. I started punching holes in the wall because
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I was mad, you know, thirteen fourteen year old kid,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: and my dad comes down and I don't know, I
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: just I threw a punch and I ended up hitting
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: my dad and I broke his corsia on his eye
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: and broke his nose. So then I get an aggravated
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: assault on top of drug possession and I didn't So
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: that's what sent me to I think it was youth
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Works first for a couple of days, and then it
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: was to ICC and then to PLC, and I had
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: to go through like DJs twenty one day assessment at
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: YICC and then they sent me to PLC.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, And so when you're doing that, what does that
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: look like for you? Like? Are you there for a
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: long time in and out? Like what I mean on
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: a stage? Are you having that?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: So basically, since I got into the system at fourteen,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I stayed until I was about sixteen, and then I
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: would get out for a little while, and then I
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: found spark, right, that's synthetic marijuana stuff. Well that I
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: would bring it to school because I'm a kid. Where
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: do you keep it? Right? You keep it in your backpack? Well,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: then I get caught with it at school, so I'm
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: right back to where I just was. So I literally
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: was in and out of Prairie Learning Center until I
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: was eighteen, and they did let me out the last
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: semester of my senior year and I got to graduate
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: from HS.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. So you do get out to do the whole
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: graduation thing, and then what happens after that for you?
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Once I get out, Well, I was like this time,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to change, right, And so I met a
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: girl in high school and we decided to have children young.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: So im I was twenty when I had my first kid,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: and so I went to school. Right after high school,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I went to BSc. I went for power plant technology
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: and I got an associates degree in that. And let's see,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: so September, so I get an associates degree, and I'm
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: working for an installation company at the time. I'm September
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: of twenty fifteen, and I was insulating a shop attic
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: and I caught my shoelace on a gang nail and
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: fell twenty four feet, Oh my god, on the concrete
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: and I shattered my ris, dislocated both my heads, broke
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: my neck, a bunch of ribs mangled right twenty four
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: feet on the concrete. And so that started a serious
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: opiate addiction. Prescribed docxy eighties right off the bit and
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: basically continued that for four years after that. So that's
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: where life really started to get crazy. And I didn't
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: even really realize it was happening, you know, because I'm
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: getting my prescription from a doctor, right, everything is this
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: is okay, I'm soosed to follow the doctor's recommendation. Well,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: my doctor didn't really care about decreasing me and medication
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: or decreasing my meds, and so four years oxy eighties
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and then one day he was like, well a lot changed.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I can no longer prescribe you this medication. What do
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I do?
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: So I call up the couple people that I know
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: that are selling the things, and that's where I turned
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: to heroin and to fatanyl and.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: All those stuff. So let's back up a little bit. Okay,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: you get hurt and start off right off the bat.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: You're on that heavy meds, plus you're pretty injured. Yeah,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: that's hard. That's a lot of bad injuries all at
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: any time. So were you using the OxyS and still
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: doing any other stuff or how you just kind of
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: navigated So high school, all I really did was smoke weed.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't really drink. I didn't really do any other
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: drugs here and there. I would do with cocaine, but
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: it was like a weekend thing and that was it.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: But it didn't get bad until I started using the
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: the OxyS, right, and then that led I should refigures
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: that it didn't get bad until they cut me off
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: of my OxyS for my doctor, and then I started
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: seeking and getting involved with a bunch of people who
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: live that kind of a lifestyle, right.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: So but when you get hurt and you're on the oxies,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: how does that look like? Because you mentioned you.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Have a child, ye, little daughter at that time.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, that's rough.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Right, didn't even hold her so yeah, ego, and and
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I'm just grumpy, right, So that it really took a
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: toll on that relationship, the relationship I had with my
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: kid's mom. Yeah, and it really flips your whole life
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: upside down. Like I couldn't I couldn't move, you know
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: for a little while. So physical therapy and and battling
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: that and then that's a long road.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: So were you at home during that then, since you
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: had I mean, all his injuries, were you able to
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: be at home or were you.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: So I was only at home for probably, you know,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: three weeks until I was able to start moving and
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: but dislocated hips. I was able to walk, you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: it just hurt, you know, I bet, yeah, And they
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: fixed all that right away. So when I left the hospital,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: which I was only in the hospital for like two days,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: and then I was home and and then that's when
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I so I said, I went to school for powerpunt technology.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: So that's when I started seeking powerplant jobs. So I
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: got a job with based on Electric shortly after that.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: And yeah, just physical therapy and going to work.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And so how was what was work like for you
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: when you're you know, you're taking Obviously you're taking them
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: because they did, right, So but how does that work
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: for you as far as your ability to do your
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: head out?
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: And it really didn't affect me that much triying once
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: you get used to them, you're that tolerance, right Like,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: it didn't even I didn't even feel like I was
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: feeling it at that time. It wasn't until they took
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: it away then I realized that I was addicted, you know.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: So during that time, there wasn't any like major times
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: where there was withdrawal or where you.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Had to not really because I kind of just I
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: took them as I was supposed to, you know, and
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: they were strong and so I didn't really need to
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: overdo it. But yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't until they
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: took it.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: They took it. So they take it away and you
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: have an outlet, you have a way to access what
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: you know, get the same thing from from people that
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you know. Explain that a little bit in terms of
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: you know, like, so you were talking about how you
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: were on the oxy eighties, did you get the same
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: exact dosage? What I mean? You know, how do you
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: know what? Because lot of times people are they talk
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: about overdoses and that kind of stuff because they think
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: they're getting the same drugs or whatever it is, and
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: then it's like, holy crap, like that was way stronger
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: what you know. I'm just trying to understand what that
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: looks like for you.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, one I knew of a guy that was
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: selling oxy thirties, right, and they were real like whatever
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: that you'd get from a pharmacist or whatever. But because
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: they they made the loss I made drug dealers and
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: made it hard for drug dealers to get actual real oxies.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: And so that's when it became fetanyl because they made
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: and they would make these fetanyl pills look exactly like
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the real thing, you know, and so they were making
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: these fake much much stronger drug, you know. And then
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: once you start taking the fetanyl, the other ones doesn't
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: it doesn't do what you need, you know, So then
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: it's just a terrible cycle.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: But when did you have kind of an idea of
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: when when when the drugs were becoming stronger, like you
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: probably didn't fit and all, did you?
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't know, but I definitely knew the very first
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: time I got one. It was just I So I
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: snorted them at that time, and so I first when
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I tried to crush the pill, it was much harder
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: to break up, and so I knew it right away.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I was like, what the heck is going on? This
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: is not right? And then I snorted it and not
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: tasted different, but immediately I was like, holy, I need
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: to go lay down, you know, like this is way
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: too much. And then so I called the guy and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I was like, there was something wrong with I don't
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: know how there's something wrong with like, because I had
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: no idea that they're pressing these things making fake pills,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: you know. But and so then he gave me a
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: real one, a real and i'd it didn't do it,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: and I was like what that? And so I had
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: to go back to the fetanyl and I would just
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: do a little bit and then I'd progressed and it
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: just got much much worse.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: So one of the things that we talked about sometimes
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: on the podcast is what a yel like, what what
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: do you think you were spending? Because some people don't
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: really understand how expensive the habit is and pretty wild.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: So so I was working for bas On Electric at
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the time. I was making very good money, three figures
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: a year, you know, or six figures a year, and
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: it and I was always broke, you know, and it's
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know, the pills ranged at that time, it
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: was like sixty dollars per pill, and I bet you
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: would go through ten to fifteen a day. By the
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: end of it, it was fifty, you know, easily fifty.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: But that's when I was Eventually I quit my job
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm going to sell these things and
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: you get them for a cheaper price. But that, yeah,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: we'll have to talk a little bit about that.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So how about with your relationship situation then when
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: you're when you've kind of moved over to the fentanyl piece,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: what is that?
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Look, So, my relationship with my kid's mom by that
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: time was done. She's moved off to Arizona to run
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: away from me, you know, And and I find another
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: girl that's doing the same things, you know, And so
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: then life was good, right because she's not down my neck,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: she's doing the things that I'm doing. And family life,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: you know, and I kept them away, you know. So
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: when I eventually when I got caught doing what I
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: was doing and gotten my trouble, my whole family is
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: blindsided because they had no idea really good job. Everything
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: looked like I had everything together, but obviously it didn't
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: go that way.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Right, So no issues in terms of like drug testing
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: or anything at work or no, we weren't okay any
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: other illegal stuff and tell.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: The not in this on the end. So I was
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: working for based on Electric using fetanol, and eventually that
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: takes a toll on how I show up at work. Right,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing very good at my job. And then
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: they came to me and they're like, hey, either you're
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: gonna quit or we're gonna fire you. So you can
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: either resign or we're gonna fire. And so obviously I
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: was like, kale, resign with the hopes that maybe I
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: can get my stuff together and go back to work
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: for them, because they said, go to treatment, get clean,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: do what you gotta do, and and you can come back.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I was state, and you know, I lost a really
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: good job and I worked there for about four years,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: five years, and so those people became like family. You know,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: and so it's hard, and so then I use that
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: as an excuse to even use more. And so now
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm selling fetanol. I've just lost my job, and
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: so the only way to maintain the lifestyle that I
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: have much I have an apartment and things and pay
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: my bills or whatever, is I have to sell a
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: bunch of drugs. And it didn't take very long. I
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: think it was less than two years before I got
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: picked up by the Feds for distribution or distribution.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what does that look like for you to
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: walk me through that a little bit in terms of
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: when you know, when you get, when the Feds come in,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: and what what share it looks like. Yeah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Sure, So there was a time where things got really
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: tight and we had to sell or not sell, but
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: we had couldn't pay our rent, so we were living
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: in a car and so me and my girlfriend at
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the time were stealing from this place called Dolls Studios.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: So I get a warrant for our rest well whatever.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: It took a little while before they came to get
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: us on that warrant, and we finally we get a
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: place and whatever. They come to pick us up on
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: the stealing warrant from because that's where she was working
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: at the time. My girlfriend at the time was working
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: for dolls and she would take money from them or whatever.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: So anyway, they, yeah, they come to pick us up
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: on the warrant for the stealing, and I had two
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: hundred and some fetanol pills on me, okay, and yeah,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the Feds were already watching me at this time, so
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: they basically knew what they did. I mean, the guy
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: dropped him off left and I did busted completely, so
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: they were watching. It didn't go federal right away, though,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: So I get picked up and I go to jail
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: and my bond was five thousand dollars and called dad,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: and Dad bonded me out and literally he bonded me out,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: took me back to my apartment, and I went then
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: continued exactly what I was doing. Yeah, you think that
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: maybe this would be enough, you know, but it didn't
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: go It wasn't federal yet, so I wasn't as scared.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: You know, It's just a possession with intent charge and
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: it was the first time I've ever been into trouble,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: so I was like, maybe that'll be nice, you know,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: But so I wasn't scared about what was about to
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: happen until a month later when they dropped all my
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: charges and then the FEDS came back and picked me up.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: And when the Feds came, I didn't have anything on me,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: so I didn't have any additional pilled or any sort
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: of didn't. They just came to pick me up on
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: the warrant. Okay, but thank god, though, all right, because
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: if that doesn't happen, I'm overdosed at some point, I'm
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: using high, high amounts of fatal and it was just
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: a matter of time before I would overdose or something.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So I get picked up and there was no bond
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: when you get picked up by the FEDS, like you
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: are detained with conditions. So either conditions, you can be
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: released to treatment and then from treatment silver Living until
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: you have corked or whatever. If not, you just sit
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: in jail until you get sentenced. But for me, they
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: said that they would give me an opportunity to go
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: to treatment, so I did. I went to Summit, Silver
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Creek and Watford City and that's where I was introduced
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: to A and all that, and so from treatment, I
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: had to go to Silver Living and then that's I
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: went to Hope manner, and that's yeah, that's how I'm
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: sitting in front of you. It is because of that.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: Really, you know, well, I mean you talked a little
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: bit about you know what, it's really it's amazing there
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: wasn't an overdose, right, Did you ever witness any of
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: that with any people you're.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Hanging out with?
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I had to knark on people many
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: times and it was a very ugly, scary thing. But
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: when you're doing it, you don't realize, you know, it's
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: just like that's just a part of life, you know,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: is these things happen and usually you're like, oh, you
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: just can't handle your stuff, or it has nothing to
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: do with that. Every single one of those pills are
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: different because they're made by people like you and I
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: that have no idea. I mean they kind of maybe
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: have an idea what they're doing, but really they don't.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: They're not.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Message lists and lethal stuff for sure. So all right,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: so that in terms of the tell me a little
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: bit though about how you go to treatment and then
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: you're you go to hope manor how does that look
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: then for you from the legal perspective, And I'm like, so, court,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: was you know, how did that.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So I'm on pre trial at this time. So pre
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: trial is whatever the time before trial, right, So that's
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: what I had. I didn't have a choice if I
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: wanted to not be in jail. I had to go
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: to treatment and then to sober living. Yeah. I guess
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what you mean by.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: So, did you go to court then too? I mean
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: after all of that or yeah, a.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Long year forever later. Yeah, So I just had court
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: for federal stuff. So I got picked up May twenty
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: first to twenty twenty one, and I got sentenced in
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: federal court in twenty and twenty three. Okay, July, I
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: think of two. No, I liked March of twenty three.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so then what what was your sentence?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Well, so I had my my theft charges, so I
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: had I'm in Hope Manners Overliving and I'm the assistant manager.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I have court for my state stuff, my state theft charge,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: and they sentenced me to fifteen years, all suspended but
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: three and so I had to go sit three years
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: in prison, and that it wasn't three years. I sat
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: a year and then I got parole and then got
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: out on parole and two months out of prison, I
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: got sentenced in federal court, and federal court I got
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: time served. So they gave me time served in federal
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: court because of the the work I put in at
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Oak Banner and the whole time I was in prison,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I would write these weekly things from inside of prison
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: and then Judith Roberts, the director at the time, would
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: post them on Facebook. And there's a whole thing. It
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: was called recovery inside the walls and that. So like
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the prosecutor and the judge, they all saw that when
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I got sentenced in federal court, and so that's what
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: they said, gave me the opportunity to to not have
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: to go back to prison.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Right, So talk a little bit about when you used
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: to do with assistant manager at Hope manor how did
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: your past, you know help you in wards of helping
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: other people that are coming in because I mean that
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you know, can look different for everybody right when they
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: come into sober living. So how did that help you
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: to help.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Other people that I can they can identify themselves within me,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: you know, And I was there. When I was there,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I was just like so committed to what I was doing,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: you know, because I was scared. I was so scared
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: that I was going to go to federal prison, and
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: so I was like, this is my one shot, right,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: and so I did. I tried really hard to just
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: be present and be there for every everybody else. And
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: whether or not it was I don't know how do
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I put it? Just whatever, putting everybody else before me,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: you know, and it showed and then change and it
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: just changes a person when you see the light bulb
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: come back on and other people you know, which I'm
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: sure you can relate to you with what you do now.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: You know, people that walk through the doors and just
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: sober living, they don't come in on a winning streak,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: and it takes a lot to get them to stay,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: you know. And and so that takes guys like me
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: and or people that have been there to be liked.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Just if you just stay for this first week, feel
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: out the week, you won't be sick anymore, and and
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: then and then reassess, you know. But when they come
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: in withdrawing, it's so hard, especially with that no al.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: You know that withdrawal, it's ugly. I'm in my mental obsession,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and and it's very hard to to get them to
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: stay if they come from jail where they've been withdrawal,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: much likely, much more likely to actually do the thing,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: you know, but if they come in, they just got high.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: And there's there was a few that I've seen do it,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: but not very many.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I sometimes I get questions from people of
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: what is sober a living? So I didn't go to
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Silver Living. It was intensive outpatient treatment. So can you
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: kind of just give us a big picture of you
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: What what does that mean when when someone comes into
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: sober a living?
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it depends on which sober living because
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I think that from what I've hear, I've only been
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: to one, so I only know that, but from what
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I hear, it just depends. So like Hope Manner, Hope
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Manner is a twelve step based sore living, which is
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: which is a a and that is why you are there, right,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: is to develop a foundation for your recovery. Right. And
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: while they teach you to you have to have a job.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: You have to If you don't have a job, you
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: have to go to fourteen meetings, you know, so and
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: if with a job, you have to go to seven
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: so meetings and work and that's that's basically all you
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: do is that it teaches you, Yeah, I don't know.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: It gives you a foundation of recovery with teaching you
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: how to live life like other people do and how
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: to manage that right, and then how to manage the
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: tension of both ends like recovery and personal life.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: And so along those lines to his which is a
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: word we use a lot in the podcast, but accountability, right,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: So they have to go to the meetings, you have
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: to work, you have to follow through with whatever the
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: arrangements are at the house, if.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: You have legal stuff anything like that.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And what you know is as far as your
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: role there in terms of helping when people would come in,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: is it a lot of it that accountability piece, you know,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: making sure they get to where they're going, or is
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: it on them to like, yeah, I know I have
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: court tomorrow or you know, or like what is your release?
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: A little bit of both, right. So as the manager
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: of the house, all the manager is is really the
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: eyes and ears for the higher ups, right as you
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: just relate what everybody's doing. So there's a board everybody
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: writes down on their every time they leave the house.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: You have to right on the board where you're going,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: how you're getting there, when you're going to be home
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: all those things, and then once you get home you
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: have to sign in saying that you're home, and so
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: you relate that. But as far as being there for
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: the other people, you just like when you're So there's
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: two managers and they rotate days, so there's always a
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: manager there just to be there if somebody needs something,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: to be there to talk to, or if you need
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: to ride somewhere. Managers technically aren't supposed to give rides
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: because of like legal stuff like insurance purposes and stuff. Right,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: somebody gets hurt and then hope manner gets sued because whatever.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you're just you're just there to help. As
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: far as like their legal stuff for things that they
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: they have to know what they are doing. It's not
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: how am I supposed to know if you have court?
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: You know, so that if you have and if if
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: you tell me you have court, then yeah, I'll make
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: sure that you get there or make sure that somebody
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: is there to support you or etcggerate, you know what
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I mean. But as far as knowing when those things are,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: that's up to the person.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I think, yeah, that's kind of what I
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: was wondering, is you know when someone comes in, it's
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you're not holding their hand every single step of their day, right,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: you're making sure they're maintaining their sobriety, they're following through
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: with the rules of but some of that stuff like
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: it's you know, you still got to follow through, right,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: you're an adult.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: And if like probation officers, so the higher ups and
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: the probation officer, Like if an individual is whatever messing
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: up or that's like the higher ups and the probation officer,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: they're they're going to take care of that. It's just
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: my responsibility. You see they're loopy or something. Okay, let's
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: test this person and to relay those things to the
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: director and stuff.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. So okay, you are in that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: role at Hope Manor, and then what takes you come
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: into your next step in life?
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Like where are we at now? So I go to
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: some manager of Hope Manor. I get sent to prison, right,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: So I go last sit in prison, stayed in contact.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I get out of prison still pending federal court. And
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: so part of my pre trial conditions in federal is
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: that I'm in sober living. So to get out of prison,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: and I had to go directly back to Hope Manor,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: and so immediately they put me right back into a
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: manager position. And I was manager for six months after that.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And from there I met a girl right and I
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: moved in with her and then we ended up buying
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: a house, and so we have a house. We are engaged,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: and that is where we are at today.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: That's exciting congratulation.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: It's you.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: How do you feel now?
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Are you still active in meetings still? You know?
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I go to I still go to three meetings a week.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I go to a Tuesday meeting and shoulder to shoulder,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: I go to a meeting at the Hub on Thursdays,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: which is my a home room. It's called three three Legacies,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: and then I go to I started an NA meeting.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Me and a couple other people started an NA meeting
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: on Sunday nights at the Dream Center Nice and so
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: that's my whatever. So I go to those three meetings
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: every week religiously unless I'm sick or something, but I'm
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: pretty religiously. Other than that, I asponsor people. I take
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: other people through the twelve steps, and I'm still active
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: with the house, you know, and my goodness is a busy,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you know, I have two kids of my own. My
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: fiance has a kid. I get my children every other
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: weekend and then whenever else she'll allow me to have them. Yeah,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: And so it gets it gets to be busy, especially
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: with sponsees, and so every every day I'm either got
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: a meeting or a sponseee or something, and my phone's
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: always ringing, you know. And it's good though. It keeps me,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: It keeps me here, It keeps me sober, and so
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't change any of it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: It helps to maintain that clarity.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. And I just my life looks so much
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: different today because of the steps that I've taken, and
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I just want everybody to have that, right, you know.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And so then when somebody comes to ask me to
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: help them, and I probably try harder to keep them
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: sober than they do. Sometimes it was just hard, you know.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh I get that.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it's that's been a crazy journey, but
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: that's been fun.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit. Another question that I
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: get sometimes is like what does that mean to be
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: a sponsor? Like what does it even mean? Like you know,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: like what do you do or how does how what
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: does that relationship look like with like with you and
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: a sponsor.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So my job as a sponsor to take somebody's hand
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: and lead them to God, right, to take them and
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: read the book with them and take them through the
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: twelve steps, and I pick up the phone when they call, right,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: and then other than that, I just I explain to
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: the best of my ability what I think the book
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: is trying to tell us when we read it, and
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: and yeah, we stop trying to cause harm, you know,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: and walk people through those situations. And I don't know
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: what's right for anybody's life. I just tell them to
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: pray and you know, and and help them see things
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: from a different perspective. Sometimes that's it.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: And so if they want you to like come to
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: a meeting with me or you know, we're what do
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: you know? Because sometimes with people, you know, they don't
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: even know where to start with that stuff, right, like duh.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: And it's some some people that I've talked to the
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the anything revolving around twelve steps meetings, programming that freaks
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: people out because you know, sometimes with that commitment of
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: those types of things that makes people nervous. How do
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: you help people, especially in the beginning, kind of start
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: navigating that you know, like, Okay, we're gonna go to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: a meeting. You know, is it is it tough to
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: get people to get up and running with all that
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: like on that structures.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And meeting And it just depends on on the person
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: and where they're at in life. Right, most of the time,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: when I meet with somebody's because I see him at
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: a meeting, right, or or somebody like tells them to
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: reach out to me or something along those lines. But
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: to get them to go to a meeting has never
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: been really an issue. I'm always willing to go to
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: a meeting, but typically I'm like, you can come to
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: the ones that I go to because I'm not I
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: already have so much stuff going on. But no, I
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: just it just depends on the person. And I think
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: everybody just needs to like ask themselves why they want
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: this and like why are you here? Like when I
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: meet with somebody, like one of the first questions I
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: asked them, I was like, what do you want out
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: of this relationship? Like what do you want? It doesn't
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: matter what your answer is, I'm still going to meet
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: with you. You know, Like there's no wrong answer. I just
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: why are you doing it? Because you want to get
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: the monkey out for back? Are you doing it because
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: you truly want to change well? And you have to
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: ask those questions. Usually once I get somebody in to
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: my house and start talking and it's just God takes
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: over and it goes exactly as I was supposed to,
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: and I'm I don't ever plan or do any of
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: that stuff. It's just it just flows right.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, but you know, sometimes you have
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: people that come in and when you ask them that question,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: like what do you want? Like for me, if you
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: would have asked me that, I would have been like,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I just want it to be sober, would have been
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: my first answer to you, because I don't know what
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the rest of my life is going to look like
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: until I get my life together, and that doesn't involve drinking, right,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: but being able to see past that for me? Would
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: it would have been really hard at that point because
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Know what doing right?
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: You want to be sober, what are you going to do?
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: What actions are you going to take to give and
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: maintain that? Are you going to go to the bar
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: to bay?
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Like, is that what you're like? Yes, you want to
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: be sober, but you're going to the bar like you
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: got you got to find something else to do with
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: your time, all right, can start going to the barbo too.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Meeting you know, there's literally meetings every night, you know,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: just but if the person doesn't want it, they're never
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: going to get it, you know. If they don't, if
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: they don't want an inside, then they're never It's that
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: going to work, you know.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Do you ever? Sometimes I think about when I was
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: drinking real heavy, you know, I'd have people would be like,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: you know, you need to quit for this reason or
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: for that reason, but none of those reasons wherever, like
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: for suffishent me, right, you know, like you need to
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: quit because of this job or you need And I
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: never did. But I think at the time, I think
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: when people were trying to support me, that was what
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: they knew, right, Like, well, why wouldn't you just quit
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: because of that? Well if that was that easy, that'd
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: be fabulous. But it doesn't work that way. But how
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: do you explain to me kind of paint the picture
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: for me a little bit? When people start realizing like
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: this is for me and I can't do all those
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: other things and help all these other people unless I
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: get myself straightened out. You know, sometimes you see that
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: clarity in people's eyes that is entirely different than what
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: you saw them at where if we're using.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: I think that usually when the person is truly mangled
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: in life, that's when I think they are willing to
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: take the suggestions that you're that you're offering them, right
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: if they come in and you know, they don't really
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: have any consequences they you know, yeah, they're recommended to
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: go to a meeting once a week. It's they hadn't
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: gone through enough pain. You know, why stop drinking if
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: you don't if there's not a reason to stop, Why
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: would you Why would you do anything if there's no
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: reason to change it? And like, if it's going good
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: and you're and you're living life and then there's no
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: need to change it. You know, I don't know, I
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: don't really know what it looks like or how I
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: don't know what it looks like in other people and
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: the light comes on until that happens, you know, Yeah.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, And everybody's different. But I feel like
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: sometimes you can see with people without them even saying anything,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: you can see that they have reached that point right,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: like they're like, yeah, I mean I'm here finally right here,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: really here, not just physically you know here. I feel
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: like that that's something that I can see in people sometimes,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: and I know that some people have said that to
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: me too after I got sober, like you're actually present,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: like this is a real deal where you're not just
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: kind of floating through and whatever it is.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: And that can be scary sometimes too, because once and
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: then once you get to that point and I think
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: that a lot of us hit this like is this
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: what life is supposed to look like? Is this it?
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: And you get to this point where you're just like,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: oh man, that's just you know, and then it almost
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: is like to price. I don't know, but I've had
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: that experience. You know, it's like is this all?
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Is it is?
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: This is what life is supposed to be? The type thing?
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: And then I've seen people like life starts going good
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: and then they stop going to meetings, and then what
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: happens and then their buddy calls are like, yeah, let's
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: go play a game of pool at the bar, you know,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and then they get there and let's play black jack.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, you start trying, you know, and it's just
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: it's such like my dad says, in the booklet's a
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: subtle a subtle fall or subtle full whatever. And that's
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: what I think that looks like, right, is alcoholism and
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: it creeps up or the and the easiest ways, if
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: that makes sense, like like a phone call of a friend,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: let's go do this and you get there. And if
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: you don't have a solid foundation of recovery and you're
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: not going to meetings, man as it's so easy, you know,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: to fall right once you start, you can't stop.
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: Well, I know it's stopping, right, I mean, no one's
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: going to stop you, but you right, you know, I mean, ultimately,
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: no one's going to stop you, but you you know,
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: people might try to step in, and but you have
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: to make that conscious decision knowing that, yeah, that's not
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: the best for me, Zoo, I'm gonna just not do that.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: And but it's tough, and you're in a vulnerable position,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I think too, I don't think people realize that either,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: how hard sobriety can make you feel incredibly vulnerable around
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: When you're around people that you staying out with that
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: you know, did the things that you used to do,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: are doing the things that you used to do, you
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: feel pretty uh, it's pretty scary.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: It can be. It definitely can be.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Until you kind of developed that confidence and that you know,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I got this kind of thing. But I think sometimes
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: that can be tough. So what happens when you get
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: to the I got this? You know, I think that
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: you carry yourself differently. Yeah, I think for me it
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: was I was just like at the point like I'm
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: just not doing it. It doesn't I can't. I can't
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: do it. I've risking too many things. And I know
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: that if I touch that, if I drink again, it's
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: going to start all over and I'm going to have
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: I'm going to lose a whole lot more the second
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: time than I did the first time. And I'm not
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: doing that. There's no way I'm going to put that,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: you know, put those risks out there. So but being
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: able to see past that is pretty tough though for people,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: and especially when you have outside influences and we're feeling
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: weak for sure. Yeah for that, Wow, Well I've learned
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: a lot. And I'm really impressed with you in terms of, like,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: you know, when you moved into the sober living and
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: you were and you're working in that and now at
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: this point where you are now in terms of being
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: a sponsor. I mean, you know that's not for everybody either,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: but being able to support people from that perspective is awesome,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: and and just staying connected to from that piece of it.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: And so what does the future look like for you?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts? It sounds like you got a
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: lot going on.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: I do. Life has been so crazy lately. But when
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I when I went through the steps, I didn't want, like,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: being a sponsor wasn't something I've really wanted to do,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: you know, I was like, But then, I don't know,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: God just put people in my life, and I have
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: people ask me in now. I have so many that
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I couldn't even tell you how many I have. You know.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: That's I probably sponsor about half of them, you know,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: because only half of them actually call. And but I
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Got to this point where I just I'll answer the call,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: you know, and whatever happens from there is what happened.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I've chased too many people to continue to chase people,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: you know, like, I'll reach out, Don't get me wrong,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: if I think about them, I'll reach out and be like, hey,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: how you doing. But I'm not going to be the
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: one to be like, Okay, this is our time, you know,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: like we'll set that. But if you're not communicating with
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: me or you're not showing up, then that's that's on them.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: It can be taxing.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: But well and you'll just say boundary for yourself too,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean you just have to My time
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: is valuable time, absolutely, you know, and I'll take an
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: hour out of my day instead at a time.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: You know, just respect that. If you're not gonna come cool,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: just tell me, right, we'll figure it out.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, follow through, follow through, follow through it right, Yeah
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: for sure?
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Well cool.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for all
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: that you're doing now to help people and help everyone
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: see on track and do the things that you're doing.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: But you know, I I'm really proud of you and
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: just huge congratulations to you. And lot's coming up. Wedding, Yeah,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I got a house. All.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: We don't have a date set yet, but we're excited. Yes,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: we're just going with the flow or not. No pressure
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: and nobody's pressure on us or nothing like that.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well that's still exciting stuff.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: So congrats, nice work, high five, appreciate it, Thank you, thank.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: You for joining us. On this episode of Recovery Chronicles.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Find out more about pewat Purview dot org, and keep
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: moving forward, remembering the story is yours and you are
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: the author.