Latest / Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest / Stream of Consciousness #72 - Mishkin Fitzgerald

Transcript

Stream of Consciousness #72 - Mishkin Fitzgerald · Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest

• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everybody, we are live with Stream of Consciousness with Dan.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm joined by an artist who has built one of the most distinctive voices in modern alternative music, Mishkin Fitzgerald, the vocalist, pianist, and songwriter behind Bird Eats Baby, the internationally touring dark cabaret art rock band praised by outlets like Prague Magazine, The Independent, and BBC Introducing for their classic cinematic sound and emotionally fearless performance.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Michigan has created a body of work that blends classical influence with raw, intimate storytelling.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Her solo projects push even deeper into atmosphere and vulnerability, earning her a devoted global fan base and a reputation as one of the most defining voices in dark cabaret and art rock.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am genuinely honored to have her on the podcast here today.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Mishkin, thanks so much for being on the show.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very well.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that was quite an introduction.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I feel uh feel I feel seen.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, good.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: You deserve it.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've been really delving into kind of your style of music and just fallen in love with it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's it hits you pretty much everywhere, to be quite honest.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it hits you in your brain, it hits you in your heart.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I'm super excited to kind of hear uh your kind of secrets on how you do that.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh just my first question, uh, we're just gonna start at the beginning.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just tell us where you grew up.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know you grew up in London, but could you elaborate uh the neighborhood and just kind of what your young childhood looked like?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I was born in Hammersmith in London, in West London, and um my parents uh brought me up in a what was a suburb of London called Chiswick, uh, which was pretty standardly middle class, you know.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Dad is a math teacher, mum did some gardening, and I have an older brother and sister, and we all uh went to church a lot.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of like my main upbringing.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I went to school um in Ealing uh and I just fell in love with music at a very young age.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this was an obsession.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it was a pretty, you know, I guess normal-ish childhood.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: We did a lot of religious activities, so that was the unusual thing, I think.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: That um my mum uh was a church minister as well at one point.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there was a lot of that, but that gave me access to music and a friendship circle uh that was a bit different.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't particularly good at school, academia, um, and uh just flourished in the musical world.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I guess that's where I started.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, that is super interesting.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to ask that because uh growing up I was very um raised in the church as well.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you just kind of it's just there, it's just all you know, it's what you do.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go to church, you do all that stuff.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So uh did you still find it like did you connect with it at a deep level, or was it just kind of something you did if you don't mind sharing?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't mind sharing at all, yeah.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think uh it was it was definitely something that was very central to our family, you know, it was a full family kind of activity, it was very expected, it was not like an optional kind of thing.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I connected to the music, I have to say, I I think even from quite a young age, it was something that I found a little bit weird, you know, initially.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Even at a very young child age, I'm kind of thinking, why are we saying all these prayers the same every week?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a little bit dull.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on here?
• 4:09
  unknown: You know.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh my older brother and sister left and went to a different church when I was still a little bit too young to do that.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I was at a very much more traditional church than they were at a more modern church.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I I kind of you know felt it was a little bit dull and I couldn't really connect to like the you know, old guy playing the organ and you know, like the old ladies who would just be like, you know, for me it was just it wasn't a very like fun child experience, you know, there wasn't a lot of play and stuff, but I did I did have some uh really nice friends there who I connected with, and I was I was as I said, I was very drawn towards the music, so I would look forward to it to be able to sing.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: That was my favorite thing.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So as soon as the music started, I I I got excited, and then it was always just like, Can we just get through the pr prayers, you know, and then the sermon, I'd be like, Oh my god, you know, like looking at the clock, like draining the like, can you sing the sermon please?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or or something?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can we just get back to the tunes?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's why I'm here, you know.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was like half really enjoyment and then half like a little bit like you know, boredom for me.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was my experience of it.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, as I said, they had an organ, we had like church bells, which was pretty exciting, and they would let they would let us play the church bells, which was pretty cool, and play the organ, and you know, they kind of encouraged us to try out music there, which was a really cool experience.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I absolutely that was my favorite part about church growing up as well.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, there'd be certain masses where there wouldn't be any music at all, and so like those would be not my favorite.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Mom and dad don't pretend you didn't hear that, but those weren't my favorite without the music.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I would find myself, I don't know what you guys call like the little books that you sing out of like the hymnal.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd be like, okay, what key is this in?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is the is the vocalist a little pitchy?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is she a little sharp?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is she a little flat?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh I grew up playing the piano from a fairly young age, so I'm sitting there in the pew, kind of like playing the piano along with the song.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really cool that you kind of had the same the same experience in church.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um outside of church life, you said you weren't particularly good at school, but did what did you have any interests outside of school, like the arts or uh anything like that?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean, like I was never really that good at art, even though my mom was a very creative person, so she always encouraged us to do a lot of different like artistic activities, which was really cool.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she taught me how to cook uh and you know, just have all these kind of life skill things, which was great.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I I yeah, I wasn't I wasn't even really that sporty.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I uh found you know uh group activities with people my own age like a little bit anxiety inducing, to be honest.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like struggled to fit in and I was quite nervous to, you know, be put on the spot.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't really do a lot of like performance activities at all, even though I loved music, I was a very shy performer.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I didn't I didn't really, you know, I don't think I really thrived as a sort of you know young adult teen.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was more like when I when I left home that I began to become myself.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I I was a bit of an awkward, shy teenager, didn't have very many friends.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, that's okay.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and do you think that really, and I mean I think I know the answer to this, but really kind of made you who you were musically and what you you know write about in your style, because it's I mean, a pretty unique style, you know, it's not everybody can do it for sure.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think that kind of you know how you grew up and how you were feeling really impacted?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just your musical voice and work going forward.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the piano was a place where I felt I could release things where I could be safe playing because I didn't have to talk to anyone then and we could hide behind the music and everyone would be like, that's nice what you're playing, carry on.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is like my you know place to hide.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also like I think being like a little nerdy Christian kid and then trying to coexist in two worlds, like the school kids who were like, you know, you trying to be cool and stuff, and I just thought I wasn't cool at all.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so you're kind of like in these two different worlds, and you're like, you feel like, well, you know, I am a child of Jesus, so I really have to make sure that that's who I am, but then you have to also coexist in a world that's like totally not accepting of that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was just trying to balance the two sides of myself, and eventually, you know, um realizing there was also something else going on, which was bipolar disorder, but you know, from from an early teen, there was things going on that I I you know didn't understand, and uh, you know, doctor's appointments and stuff started to come up for me.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um it was a it was just a bit of a difficult time for me, but the music I guess started from that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to express myself through sound of music rather than um using words because I didn't really understand how to talk about it.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I find that very interesting, and I'm definitely gonna want to talk about that a little later in the podcast, uh, just mental health in general.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so you went to public school then, right?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I went to a public school when I was uh before the age of 11, and then I went to a private school uh from the age of 11 to 18.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And was that uh religiously affiliated or was that just a private school?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was religiously affiliated, but it was also like multi multi-uh faith.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was around the church, but it was um it was quite a unique school.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was very small, and you know, even though it was a private school, it was like it was kind of special, it was like open to a lot of people.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was run kind of independently, I would say, more than like the private schools that are like a bit more like an independent school, I would say.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh, but yeah, it was definitely like it wasn't a state school.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that makes sense.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to geek out just a little bit about the piano because I think you're an incredible pianist.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love playing the piano, and I just every time I talk to musicians, I feel so lucky that I can communicate with them through the piano because I think it literally is the perfect instrument.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, someone that I'd interviewed said this.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an entire orchestra, like at your fingertips.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can play the bass part, you can play the treble part, uh, harmonize.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just incredible what it can do.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I just kind of want to hear it from you what you know the piano means musically and what you can do with it um expressively.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love the orchestra analogy.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've definitely heard that before and used that myself.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, piano for me is like musical freedom because everything's laid out in front of you, so you can the way my brain works, which is through chord connections more than anything else.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can see them all there.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a massive computer, kind of, you know, with all of these pathways.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so the piano and plus like it's easy to press down the piano keys.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a guitar where you have to build up the caliber or a violin where you have to like get the right pitch and all this stuff, you know.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you can press a chord on the piano and straight away you get this lovely sound coming back, especially with with a real piano, which I was lucky enough to have access to um in my parents' home.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um so for me it was just this this like absolute freedom of of music.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I I played guitar when I was young as well, um, and flute and a few other things as well.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I really took to the piano um a bit later on, you know, like I was playing on it and I was writing everything, but I wanted to be in a rock band, so I felt like the piano's not really a rock instrument, I need to play the guitar.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that for a lot of time before I kind of decided to just play what I'm good at, which is the piano.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I feel the exact same way.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, I played piano growing up and then in band class, we didn't really have like the piano as an interest instrument to play.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um I was given my mother's old clarinet.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that is what I played in uh middle school and high school.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh first chair, no big deal.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's like you can't like I mean, if you're really good, you can't, but you can't like rock out with the clarinet, you know what I mean?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kind of like the flu, it's just not very cool that like, you know.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can try, but so no, that kind of sparks a question in me is what kind of music were you listening to as a kid?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Was it mainly um stuff in the UK?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Were you listening uh to any like other like American bands, or what were you listening to at the time?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had a very eclectic musical upbringing, which was a good thing.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we listened to a lot of church music and that was a huge influence.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: But my dad uh he had a a record player and these records that ranged from like Holst the Planets to Jimi Hendrix to Queen to The Muppet Show, you know, and you're like just like loads of really random stuff, and he'd he'd like travel a lot for work sometimes and he'd come back with a record and be like, This is a Chinese drum record, and be like, Okay, that's weird, you know.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, and he'd have these tapes in the car of like Indulan Indonesian Gamalayan orchestra and stuff, and then like some African like gospel and just you know, kind of everything and anything, which I think was really cool because he was obviously really interested in lots of different types of music, so that gave me like a huge kind of influence of what was out there.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I do remember being very like moved by classical music when I was a young child.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: I had like tapes and I was absolutely obsessed, and I would like come into the lounge and be like, I will do a dance to the god of war, you know.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And my parents were like, Okay, this child is quite strange.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then after that, you know, grew up listening to a lot of a lot of queen and then got into pop.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I actually in my early teens loved like gospel and RB, which I don't ever listen to now, but I grew up listening to like Destiny's Child and Eternal and stuff.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh jeez, okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like funky, but also Christian, so it's funny, you know.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then got a little bit into like RB and Rath and stuff, and then like then just got like fully into rock music in my later teens.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I I I'm trying to think what I was listening to back in the day.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think when I first started, my first CD was a band called Good Charlotte, which is um I mean just I mean, just your typical punk band, but like that's that that was it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was listening to Fallout Boy, I was listening to um you know Blink 182, Green Day.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: That was just the time, you know, spiked hair, uh dyeing your hair weird colors, and just kind of the freedom.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, musically, I guess looking back, not the most progressive, you know, you're just sitting there playing power chords all day, but um but that was it.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, kind of in in college, I started really branching out.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like there's a band called Beirut.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm sure you've heard of Beirut, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just incredibly talented, and like it just opened my eyes to a completely different world of music when you know I think of a band, I think of a guitar, a bass, a drum, and a vocalist, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Beirui's playing instruments I've never heard of.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it just yeah, it just blew my mind.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And ever since then, I'm kind of uh I mean, I'll listen to anything, I'll listen to Ravi Shankar play the sitar, I'll listen to, you know, I mean, Queen, that's probably in my top five.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh David Bowie.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love David Bowie.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um so no, that's really that's really neat as well.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I told you I I was gonna get a little deep because I think our listeners will appreciate it, and I'll appreciate it because it really helps me talking through it.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we both have been through um, you know, some heavy times in our lives with you know mental health or abuse, and uh I just kind of want to give you the floor to talk about kind of how you approached it and what happened, just whatever you're comfortable sharing.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so I uh as I said, I wasn't particularly like happy teen or child.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: I felt a little bit like isolated for some reason, I suppose.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, at the age of like 15, I you know, if I go back to Doctors Notes, there's things written there like, you know, mood swings, depression.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of depression when I was a teenager.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like environment for me to express myself, you know, Christianity is has a lot of you know great things that you can learn from it, but it is quite it can be a very repressive religion, uh, especially when it comes to things like um sexuality and all that kind of stuff.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of shrouded in this whole like mysterious no, we don't talk about that kind of stuff, you know.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be very hush hush.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the church is missing out on communicating these things to younger people, and therefore it can lead to some pretty messed up things happening, um, which I've I've seen and heard a lot throughout the years from people who've been through through churches.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I left home at 18, I was just so completely like naive and gullible, and didn't have a clue what the real world was like, and I moved to Brighton, which is a pretty uh crazy place.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredibly free, you know, like you can do whatever you want here and be whoever you want, and people don't care, they just accept you for who you are, which is incredibly beautiful, which is what drew me into it.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: But on the flip side of that, because it is such a free place, there is a lot of like drugs and a lot of crazy, kind of extreme partying and things like that, and I just completely got thrown into this world, and I didn't know good people when I first moved down here, and I got into some really awful situations, and I didn't, you know, know who my friends were, and um, you know, it kind of chewed me up and spat me out, and I was there like this little Christian kid, like, what do I do?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I felt like I'd gone so far into the secular world that I couldn't go back to the Christian world, so I was in between this state, and again just could not let the two halves of myself like work together.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they both just completely like exploded.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I kind of had a I guess like a breakdown, and I didn't really know who I was supposed to be.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was pretty hard, and uh, you know, I had this a lot of depression, a lot of issues, understanding, and you know, we we know what those things are called now, but back then didn't have a clue, and it took many, many years before I was actually able to get a diagnosis.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but essentially I think I think for the whole of my twenties and you know, most of my 30s, I was like an alcoholic to just cope with it.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: That was the only way I could really be like, okay, well, I need to get through this, I need to show up.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Alcohol is great.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is me.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I I can do anything on alcohol, I don't have to think about stuff.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I can just be who I am, I can be social, I can get on stage, I can do anything, you know.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it gave me the confidence really to to get to get where I thought I was going.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as we all know, that that doesn't really last very long.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, obviously, I'm sorry you went through that, but I'm really glad you said that because um I am currently 158 days sober.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so we can be alcoholics together.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you will never stop being an alcoholic.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I was uh clinically depressed as well.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think at the time, so I didn't feel any depression at all until I went to college.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was a very successful uh student in high school, like top of my class, uh, you know, upper middle class family.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, nothing to complain about, literally nothing to complain about, but the brain is a fickle thing.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I went to college and I mean I had friends.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I was still doing well in school, but I I don't know what it was if I just didn't have that grounding force, whether that was I mean, Christianity or just, you know, my parents, but I just didn't have that foundation anymore.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just pushed it aside, and I think it really opened my brain up and just made it very fragile.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I started feeling just very depressed for again no reason.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just I I remember nights sitting there with like a paper, uh like a staple remover.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's got like the little claws and just like tearing at my skin, like like what am I doing?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it was and it was a time, at least it felt to me, where I couldn't really talk about it, or like, wow, if Dan's depressed, like what am I?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's got everything going for him, so like I hit it.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just hit it, and that wasn't healthy, and I I just I you you feel your self-worth is just very low.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I was able to finally, after several tries, get on a good medication that I've now been on for like twelve, thirteen years.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I just think it's important to talk about it because I know there's uh thousands upon thousands of people out there who felt just like me, and for them to know that there are.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know groups out there to talk about it and it's not a it's not a stigma you're not weak your brain is literally just not working the way it's supposed to do so and I mean you and me both we're still doing we're doing incredible things now I mean so don't let it define you is basically kind of what I wanted to to get out there.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So do you have any advice for uh people like us who um maybe chose to cope with it the wrong way or yeah just any advice for for people like us I think it's just worth saying that when you are a creative person you're generally a bit more bit more sensitive to to find yourself and to know what you need.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: It can be very confusing and I think just stressing that if you are a creative you've probably got some kind of neurodivergence because I don't think I've met a single creative person who doesn't have some kind of um you know I don't want to call it a disorder because I really don't think it's a disorder.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just something that perhaps doesn't fit in with the current way of what we encourage is correct in society.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so you could be struggling with something and you're just not in the right place, the right job, the right friendship circle you have got the support you need and until you really find other people who can help you with that and go, well I went through that too it's really difficult because you can't just go well I'll just get a job and do that thing that everyone else is doing and you feel like you're failing because you can't do that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know remember trying to have like normal jobs and just being so depressed and and then and not being able to cope with it and taking sick days and just feeling like what's wrong with me you know I think the first thing is is to just realize that like if you feel different like that's okay and you know eventually it what if you can harness that difference it can kind of become a superpower if you're in the right place.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know thinking outside the box is a beautiful thing and should be encouraged but I think at a younger age before you know that it's really hard to to kind of diagnose it like everyone's like talking about ADHD and bipolar and all of these things we have the language for it now but we certainly didn't when I was growing up or I was not aware of it.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the first thing is just to to to realise that and and that it's okay to not know what's going on for a while.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the second thing um I think advice wise is just to you know if people are not empowering you or trying to like take care of you or you know do something that um is going to help you then they're probably not the tribe that you want to spend a time with and and it's okay to kind of like jump around until you find that I would just say you know find people who you can trust that's so important so they can help you with that and from that you will then build up a strong network of people and that that can keep you safe in the really hard times.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: That would be the the two bits of advice I would say yeah that's that's beautiful advice so um I'm going to switch gears and get back into music now.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um you moved to Brighton at 18 you do have a a wealth of musical talent swelling inside you chirp songs ready to spew out who knows what else um so when did you make the conscious decision or did you to be like I'm going to be a musician or did you ever yeah I mean I I always wanted to be a musician but I didn't really have like a lot of like you know actually could play anything that well back then you know like I wasn't a really accomplished piano player wasn't an accomplished singer at all I was painfully shy had no idea of any technique really so you know when you say I had this wealth of talent like I joined a punk band with a bass guitar with three strings on it that I couldn't play couldn't sing you know and just started like getting involved in whatever I could because I was so desperate to like make music and be in a band um you know but I really had no no clue what I was doing so I played in some pretty like terrible punk bands you know but you know it was a really good kind of like learning ground and that was my first kind of go-to sort of thing and ended up fronting a band for a couple of months that needed a touring singer and then I started Birdie's baby um and that was where things started to change a little bit uh but really it took me quite a long time to get you know to a place where I was writing and performing and doing all the things that a band should do professionally you know I was I was a little bit behind um and I was studying digital music at the time at Brighton so basically as a compromise my parents were like you know please don't be a musician like it's impossible you can't make any money and you know they were kind of like also and it was probably a fair point you know you're not that good you know oh geez um you know uh and in their defense they were obviously like why don't you do something that you can get money from and you can still do the music so as a compromise I was studying like what was supposed to kind of be a music tech course but it was it was really bad like the the the course was terribly run and none of the teachers showed up and we didn't really get any skills which was perfect for me because I just was like this is great I don't have to spend any time here I'll just spend all my time being in a band and that's what I was doing you know and um still did the course but it was like it was you know pretty it wasn't exactly like an intense course um so I did that and then I did another year at another college called Northbrook which was a composition uh course which is what I realized later on that I was I was into writing more than anything else.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I met Gary who is uh the guitarist in um all the bands that we we play together and now my partner um so that would have been like a good 22 years ago I think that we met at Northbook and he joined Burliot's baby which had only played like one show by then and he joined in on on bass and that's where it all started.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did the bass have four thr four strings or three?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: He played the bass well okay you know he had a real he had a proper bass.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: By this point I'd put the bass down and the guitar because he could do both and I was like I'm just gonna play keys because that's kind of what I can do.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll admit this it's not gonna be a a metal band unfortunately you know I can only play the piano but then it you know it became a metal band a lot later so that's funny it's really funny.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I every time I listen to your music now I'm gonna just picture you with a playing a bass with three strings so I can't get that out of my head.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: I had a mohawk and everything like a giant orange mohawk and you know like shade and the like clothes all writ and stuff you know it was kind of a mess but it suited it suited my punk era you know oh so um so you've got Gary now uh when did you release your first record and did you have you know any expectations for it were you uh just kind of like doing it to get it done I just I've always wondered like that first record's got to be kind of I mean at least to me very intimidating uh so just what was that experience like uh yeah again like didn't really have a clue what I was doing so this was all very DIY uh because I'd studied a bit of this music tech um you know mixed it ourselves and then we would just hand that out like I'm from the generation that you know burned CDs and handed them out to venues to get shows like that's how long I've been doing this.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we did and we just had this little recording on CD and we handed that out and then we we professionally recorded the first record Bradley's baby which was uh Here She Comes a tumbling and that was in 2009 and we we did a show and um yeah that was like a lot better production I had a friend of mine who's uh Alex Ball who who now does like all this amazing synthesizer like tutorial stuff he's like super famous on on YouTube and we we went to Northbrook College as well together and he recorded our first album um and that kind of put Betty baby firmly on the map I remember putting out our first music video that again everything was DIY the drummer was this incredible uh photographer and and and visual artist and she she made the videos and we put this out and it just went on YouTube and it seemed to do really well I think we just hit the you know the sort of niche of the dark cabaret uh bubble and um that's how we got our first fan base.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that um because I know I don't want to say lucky because obviously you probably worked very hard on it but it takes some bands you know quite a few you know EPs and records to really you know get on that map so you've had to be pretty grateful for that.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not a coincidence.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean your your work is incredible uh gosh Gary is very incredible too I went listening to that like I'm not a huge like bass guy but I've come to appreciate it a little more and then his guitar obviously as well but um so I also want to transition into kind of your solo work and collaborations with other artists.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of drew you to that was there I don't want to say a void or just something you think you could that could fill your cup a little more doing things on your own or under a different name could you just kind of describe what that looked like I mean I should probably go through how we became um from Birdie's baby into the band that we're doing now Crimson Vale.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh right yeah so basically like Birdie's baby went on for a very long time and had multiple kind of reforms and changing of members with Gary and I being the only two that kind of stuck with it for that length of time.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was kind of one of those bands that was like so alternative and strange that like it had this cult following but it it didn't really break through you know um the music was still just a little bit too unusual maybe still a little bit too DIY around the edges and you know it just never really like took off and then we had this like big album that we put loads into and everything and um you know we had a John Fryer producing it who did like nine inch nails early albums and Depeche mode and all this stuff you know so we'd really like it was getting to this point where we were like okay this is this will be the album and then the pandemic hit and everything that we'd built like our touring route in America our our booking agents because everything was DIY we we weren't ever really signed to a major label we didn't have that kind of support everything we did ourselves and it just destroyed all of that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was like back to zero you know I mean obviously during that time as well like the streaming platforms had kind of taken over everything like we couldn't sell much and then because of the pandemic and then Brexit as well just it just it just absolutely annihilated all everything that we built with that project.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we couldn't do touring in America still haven't toured in America since you know before the pandemic our European booking agent went bust like everything all the venues were shutting down you know and we couldn't ship merch because the postage fees had gone like absolutely catastrophic and that was how we made our money after that we toured mostly in Europe.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes in America we made money through that and then we would sell merch and all of that just completely disappeared.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we kind of went back to playing like the toilet circuit in the UK and I remember just thinking like I can't do this again man like I can't build up but this time without being able to sell anything because of streaming and um we just basically were like I think I think we're done you know and I remember having this conversation with Gary just being like it's kind of over isn't it you know and we were like I can't start this again from zero I just can't do it like you know we we we've got to make some money like we're in debt like we have to pay the bills like what are we gonna do?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um that happened and then like it was really shit for a while and so I'm like where that's okay it was really bad for a while and then um I got this random email out of nowhere well not out nowhere but there was like this guy who was kind of a a super fan but he ran this booking agency in Germany and we talked a few times over email and I knew he was a huge fan of Birdie's baby and he said uh hey I'm gonna be at Wembley Stadium with one of my bands I remember thinking okay cool uh if you want to like meet me at the Hilton Hotel and we'll have a cup of coffee and you can tell me what you're doing with Birdie's baby.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we had kind of regrouped at this point and we were putting out like metal music um and uh we we'd written this album like just kind of we were like fuck it should we just do one more like album let's make a metal record because we always wanted to and we we just we just made this song and it was called Hex which is is has now come out and um we I we'd had this music video and we were like okay we'll just make some music for fun like we doesn't matter if we ever tour again but we're gonna make the music that we want to make um and so I went and met this guy his name is Frank and he uh very quickly said I love this I'm gonna go talk to a label there's someone that I think is perfect for you and I think we can we can sign this project and actually give it like the funding that it needs that is that's pretty badass I'm not gonna lie um that it's just so cool how things happen like that.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I do want to rewind a little bit and talk about the pandemic because I mean I wasn't in that space I was just you know an accountant office worker so I just worked from home but I remember you know just being stuck at home all the time not being able to do anything but at least I still had a livelihood at least you know I was making money I had a stable job and I just can't imagine when all of that is just I mean it's not your choice it was just completely stripped away from you and that had to have really taken its toll had to have been immensely stressful uh more stressful than just being at a pandemic already is uh so yeah so I didn't even I didn't even think about it that way because I know how much it affected you know the younger people uh during COVID you know with schools they you know they weren't interacting with one each other with one another uh physically uh they lost a lot of that you know they couldn't go to their dances they couldn't you know do any of that and so I always thought of it that way but I never really thought about it you know in your line of work how much that literally could have destroyed and probably did destroy a lot of bands out there so a lot of bands did not come back you know it was sad just watching them all fold and all the venues and all of the people working in that industry just watching them all just just have to have to give it up you know because they just couldn't we couldn't afford to live you know so it was yeah it was a dark time.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I I almost feel you know almost guilty as a consumer because the consumer can still listen to your product you know they can listen they can stream it and I'm basically giving you like a tenth of a penny per stream.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what I mean like it was there was a lot of things you know like you it wasn't just the touring route gone it was the CDs gone you know the postage gone like all of these kind of things and um music really became quite devalued during that time you know um the guy from Spotify was making like billions in the pandemic and all the musicians are like you know basically like going completely bankrupt and uh what am I supposed to do?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I like I don't have skills and anything else you know it was really bad.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we we were teaching a lot at the time as well so we were like teaching lessons online but it was like soulless kind of stuff and uh you know uh yeah so it was a dark time but um I I think that was the thing that forced our hand to just let it go as well and just be like well you know what let's just stop trying and um you know why don't we just make make some music just for fun and I was just the the drummer who joined just before the pandemic who's still our drummer now Anna Miley was really like this quite talented proggy drummer and for the first time we had somebody in the band who actually had a very similar kind of brain to me and Gary we'd always struggled to find people who understood the sound and we wanted to push things forward and make them more complicated.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: There was always one kind of weak link in the band um but we had this incredible drummer and I remember just saying to her like hey it's locked down do you want to just make some really fucking weird tunes and I was like I've got an idea to make a song with nine different time signatures and she was like yeah all right cool yeah so you know we were like writing this really really proggy really strange music and that's how we got got signed then to the label because suddenly they just were like oh this is this is great this is progressive metal we can sell that and we were like oh okay that is very interesting and I I I kind of want to talk about Spotify and just streaming in general because I'm sure you have a love-hate relationship with it maybe a little more hate than others at some point but yeah um but because like for me without Spotify I never would have heard of you just because of course it's a great discovery for you right so I mean I mean I'm not even exaggerating probably thousands of bands I've discovered just you know because of Spotify whether they have 1,000 listens or a hundred million listens.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So from a consumer I appreciate it but I also understand that just by me listening to it it's not really helping you I mean what's helping you is you know buying your merchandise it is going to shows it is you know supporting bands like those so sorry if Spotify's listening don't crap on me or anything but um I'm I'm sure as a musician it's just gotta be kind of frustrating at uh at times so yeah I mean the Spotify bubble was so great when it first started you know you're discovering all this stuff and um you know yeah it's it's a fantastic place to discover music but um yeah it's just not really a model that's working you know um they still haven't really found a solution you know most artists would still argue that that is the thing that's the hardest thing about being an artist is you know your product is essentially tap water you can't right everywhere it's available um which is sad because it it's it's so much more than than that it's you know it's a unique flavor of music that you've slaved over to to produce so something that has such a valuable input to then have it so devalued when it's consumed is is just an incredibly frustrating position and and that will never change until until they you know they put some kind of law in place to say that you know you can't just take someone's product and use it for free or whatever.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know it's but that's that's just a problem that you know there's no point talking about anymore because you know it's happened now it's it's a thing that we just have to to deal with but um you know I I think that now is the time for artists that are highly unusual to step forward and and and shine because that's the only thing that's going to keep you going in an industry that doesn't value the music you have to build something special.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know you have to build something that makes people go well actually this is more than just putting it on a playlist I'm obsessed with this band and I want to know more and that's how they can step into you know your live shows or support on Patreon or you know buy something or tell other people and those are the kind of fans that if you're building then your career can hopefully be sustained.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I that's incredible that you mentioned that I'm actually super just sparked something in me.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know having you know that Patreon or a Discord or starting a podcast or just something to instead of you know me just listening to your music hear what you're about as a person hear you talk about topics I might care about even outside of music whether it's you know political or you know some people might be into sports.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: They can talk about sports or food and really connect with the listener I think is awesome because I just went to a live show um last Sunday uh it was it's a band called Johnny Manchild and the poor bastards.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's he's probably like the most talented pianist I've ever seen live and I hadn't been to a show in I mean years just because I've been dealing with a lot of health issues so I haven't really been able to go to shows and it reminded me how frickin' awesome a good live show is like I would listen to one song at a live show over his entire album just sitting at home.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's so powerful to to really see that passion.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of what kind of sparked that thought that I was having so well I could talk about all of that all day and I mean we could but I really want to get into a really really fun segment because we're just gonna kind of go back and forth and just talk about the weirdness and intricacies of our language.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because um you guys got some weird words over there and yeah uh for those I I might do a little bit too many Ted Lasso references but like something as simple as you know on the football pitch you we call them cleats you know you put your cleats on to go you know play football or whatever and you guys call them boots.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then so then I'm like all right well what do they call boots but don't you call boots boots?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're like yeah so boots are boots but cleats are boots and then football boots and then what is the trunk of a car called?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: boot.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we got so you can put your boots in the boot while wearing boots.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pretty much.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Also you can um you can be like um like get to boot which means like get out.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh okay so you can boot them out of the club you know that also means get them out.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get the boot while wearing boots.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: And get booted out of a club at the same time.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: See look at that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's just one example.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I haven't ever actually been to the UK.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've been to uh Ireland and they have some weird weird words there too but um it's hilarious because I usually do like a food segment where I'll tell or ask like an artist like I'll uh name an American dish and you have to like guess what it is.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a dish here called biscuits and gravy and to you uh biscuit it's like a is it like a scone or a yeah like a scone yeah yeah and you're like you're gonna put gravy on that that's disgusting yeah biscuits are like a sweet food here I mean they're like Oreos are biscuits to us.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh so now I'm imagining putting gravy on an Oreo and that just so yeah when I first sent America I was like what the hell is this you know biscuits and gravy and they're like oh it's like it's like scones and gravy okay that actually sounds quite nice you know but you know cookies right but we the cookies to us are the big soft squishy ones oh yeah cookies are big or they're baked but biscuits are small hard come in packets Oreos jammy dodges you know custard creams they're biscuits oh I love it I absolutely love it I just have a list over here uh some of my favorites so for our listeners what's an ice lolly oh it an English ice lolly yeah it's like a Calippo do you have that Calipos?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I don't think so uh so it's like it's frozen fruit juice basically oh so it's like a it's like a popsicle a popsicle yeah that's the one yeah it's kind of that yeah oh and what was the other one uh oh rocket oh that to you is what is it oh uh arugula yeah I think so yeah it's the peppery little salad it's quite tasty call it rocket yeah you call it rocket yeah yeah and then um what an aubergine is a what aubergine oh uh eggplant right yeah exactly um so I've got to get this one off my chest because like I told you offline I'm a huge Harry Potter nerd is it Merry Christmas or is it happy Christmas or is it both?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's Merry Christmas.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is Merry Christmas okay I mean you can say happy Christmas but most people say Merry Christmas here.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay that's very British you know like in um what is it a Christmas carol you know Tiny Tim goes Merry Christmas everyone you know that's like the British kind of like you know sentimental Christmas thing.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha and then oh what's the other it's a musical you probably appreciate uh Sweeney Todd yeah um that's one of my favorite musicals and she makes m I think mincemeat mincemeat pies yeah is that what she makes can you explain that because that just does not sound very good what is mincemeat pie mince meat is just like ground beef so it's so is it kind of like uh actually hold on a minute that's not always true so mincemeat is ground beef except at Christmas time mincemeat is uh dried fruit in a kind of concoction that goes inside a pie called a mince pie which is a sweet thing okay but if you buy a jar of mincement mince meat at Christmas it's the fruity stuff that goes into a mince pie but mincemeat if you went to the butcher would be ground beef you guys are weird I don't know I don't know that one is really weird because you're like why have you called this fruit concoction mince meat it's basically vegan I don't understand why don't you just call it like like like and and call them mince pies there's no mints in them it's so weird so I don't know why that is that is and then if you get bad mints you have to go to the loo right yeah to the loo yeah oh my gosh or have you heard spend a penny that's like my grandma's way of saying I'm going to the toilet I'm just gonna spend a penny.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god I'm gonna use that to I'm gonna use that with my wife I'm gonna be like all right I'm gonna go spend a penny spend a penny there's so many British ways of just getting out of saying awkward things you know that's that's you know that's what what British language is all about it's like how can we make this either fun to say or I'm embarrassed so I need to say a different term like I'm going to go spend a penny rather than like I'm off to the bog.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh so it's like a it's like a you it's like a euphemism is what it is almost yeah it's like a polite way of saying I am going to pee I am going to pee right now.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah oh what's the other one oh fanny is that a but no that's that's a ladies who whoopsies is like an arse right Fanny's a right yeah yeah I always thought it was hilarious to say Fanny packs because Fanny here is like a ladies oh well sorry about that everyone didn't mean to I'm gonna have to mark this episode as explicit now I didn't mean to actually a swear even in English because Fanny's also a name oh that's true yeah uh well I will never name my daughter Fanny I'll tell you that yeah I mean I would see them like you know like they would like that's a very old English name you'd see them like on the church of all the people who passed away and it would be like funny you know you know oh that's okay so it's the equivalent so uh a person's name is Richard right so Richard's a pretty common name but uh he can go by Dick and so so as a kid you're like again ha dick yeah yeah it's the same thing funny oh gosh this is enjoyable um yeah funny ones so I am in Scotland that's where they've got the really weird language like you think Irish is weird and English is weird the Scots take this weirdest level oh well do you if you have any good Scottish bands I'd love them love to have them on the box.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: He could definitely use you completely with some very strange uh language oh my gosh well it's so funny because I have a fanny pack literally sitting right in my in my closet right there um so I'm gonna I'm going to quiz you I'm going to do it because we're having so much fun.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay so we have a dish it is called a walking taco if for those just listening she has the most confused look on her face right now.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: A walking taco is that one that's like I don't know I want to say like is it one in a hard shell or do you stack them or something or is it a walking taco?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that is.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay so do you know what like Fritos are like the corn chip Fritos?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yes yeah yeah like Doritos.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah they're like Doritos but they're not really like flavored so it's mainly just like a corn chip.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay yeah but okay so you get like a bag of Fritos like an individual bag and you open it and you pour your mincemeat or ground beef yeah into the bag and then like in the bag and then like cheese and maybe like onions or whatever you'd put on a normal taco.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you kind of just mix it all up and you just eat it with a fork like you can do it while you walk.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's called a walking taco.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's nice.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's that that's great.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like actually quite impressed because that makes making nachos a lot easier because you know oh yeah otherwise you can put that on the tray and then like put stuff on top and put it in the oven just to shove it in the bag and shake it around that's amazing.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there you go you you and Gary should do that.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: You should make walking tacos.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you can always rely on the Americans to make something even lazier I'll just pretend you didn't say that.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: No that's okay.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh I had another one what was the other one oh okay so here's a huge one I don't know if you use it over there especially in where I'm from in Nebraska uh ranch dressing we don't really have ranch dressing here is that the kind of pink one it's white it's white okay yeah no we don't have ranch dressing here we have something really gross called salad cream which I suppose is a bit ranch dressing yes and we also have Thousand Island sauce oh South Island's good you have that okay yeah right so those would be the only ones that I would say are close to to ranch what is it like some kind of mayonnaise it's absolutely terrible for you so it's kind of like a mayo but it's got like herbs and like pepper and but it's mainly just like hydrogenated soybean oil so it's really terrible for you.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um but like we put it on everything or some people put it on everything like they'll uh dip it they'll put their pizza in it oh okay yeah I think I know what you mean I mean we do get the little little uh Domino's like garlic and herb dip is that oh yeah it's it's it's the taste is close but the the consistency is a little different but right yeah no we don't really have that over here oh and then what was the other one oh it's I don't know why everything I'm talking about has mincemeat in it it's called a sloppy joe oh I know what that is it's like a messy burger isn't it like a deconstructed kind of burger yeah yeah yeah we don't have that really I don't think but we know what they are we'd probably have them in like an American style diner oh those are so good um ooh why is this on there I feel like you'd know this a chicken fried steak schnitzel we would call that oh okay because it's I mean I think that's what I would call it because yeah yeah so w except I think ours is probably a little thicker maybe but do you have chicken Kiev's out there?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh chicken Kiev yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um I'll make chicken Kiev that's with like is that the one with the butter in it do you put I don't actually know I'm actually vegan so I all of these things I have tried but as like a vegan version so I I don't think I would know how to how to make any of it I would just buy like the really awful vegan style versions of it and be like well I've got a perfect one to end on.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's vegan is it um marmite yeah I love marmite oh okay you've I've heard it from again I was talking to my uh buddy from Australia and they have vegemite which I think is kind of similar similar yeah so what on earth are you doing with it what like do you put like what does it do?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are you putting it on?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: The best thing to do do you have crumpets out there?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know what a crumpet is yes okay yeah so crumpet loads of butter little bit of vegemite that's how you want to eat and is that like for breakfast or just whenever whenever you want breakfast snack last thing at night just a crumpet with lots of butter and a little bit of vegemite is good.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's also really good with peanut butter so if you have like it makes it a bit more salty.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: So like like peanut butter and you have it but if you don't love the taste of vegemite on its own try it with a little bit of peanut butter and it's really good as well.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Again crumpet I would recommend bread product to put it on I don't remember what movie it was on but I just remember anyone for tea in crumpets dairy yeah yeah yeah that sounds I I have to make fun of you guys a little bit you're calling us lazy like I would expect nothing less but oh and then uh before we move on I have to do that what do you call cigarettes?
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: Fags that's another thing like I said fanny and that's about like you can't say that word here.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah I know I know yeah I mean I think I remember being on tour one time being like mate mate have you got a fag and they were like what you know I was a bit drunk at the time so I went into the thing I was like mate have you got a fag like that and I was doing that you know so I I think there must have just been like this person is incredibly you know and but eventually like they were like oh you're British oh okay and I was like sorry sorry have you got have you got a cigarette please you know and then it was all right but um yeah I remember that we call them quite a few things but I can't think what else now so we we've had enough fun no we've not had enough fun but um so I really want to talk about the future um I've been thinking a lot about it just personally myself getting I say up in age I'm only 34 but uh so what is the future looking like for you do you have a lot of ideas uh just kind of where you want your musical journey to take you uh yeah just where do you want to it sounds like I'm interviewing you which I am but like a job interview like where do you see yourself in five years musically the five year plan yeah your five I need your five year plan right now um I feel incredibly grateful because I really think that uh the future is is looking very very musical for me like if you'd told me 10 years ago that this is where I'd be now I would have said like no way you know so um I'm feeling incredibly lucky to still be making music for the first part because you know that's not everybody's story who goes into it.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: The metal band that we're in Crimson Vale we've just finished um and put together our second album it's a four album deal with Raining Phoenix so we're on the second one now and we have uh it's being produced by one of my favorite musicians of all time so that will be revealed soon.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah so that's like a dream come true as well um and we just have this kind of pathway where we know like this album's gonna come out it's um by far like the most ambitious and the best music I've ever been privileged to be part of the band that we are now from where I started is just so much more professional and creative.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I I would never have imagined that I'd be making like such uh crazy uh progressive music as as I am so that's incredibly exciting I know that that band is is about to hopefully explode into the you know the the the progressive sphere um so that's very exciting that that's starting to happen um and then you know my solo work I'm still writing uh a lot and I'm currently working on a musical which is very yeah so I've uh I'm going back to my dark cabaret roots and writing a sort of gothic dark musical based around storytelling um that I'm hoping to finish at some point um maybe later this year and then get some funding for and then I'm gonna start putting on theatre shows.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: So everything for me is exploding musically and creatively so I just feel very fortunate to be in the center of that you know I'm lucky enough to be able to bounce between projects um you know and and and still basically have a music career um so I'm yeah just feeling incredibly positive about the future not looking around too much at the news and feeling positive about that but yeah you know the apocalypse is gonna need some tunes is all I'm gonna say oh man so when when you're saying you're going back to your cabaret days so like one of my favorite albums that you have is Feast of Hammers.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's everyone's favorite I think oh my god it's just it's spookily gorgeous like that's how I have to like describe it because it it's it's creepy but it's beautiful it's I can see it in like a Tim Burton movie.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um kind of that vibe so I'm really really pumped and very jealous in a way that you're able to kind of do a musical like that that's incredible.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um a good musical like I'm not a massive musical fan but a good musical is really freaking cool so I'm really hoping that turns out well for you.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you yeah me me too it'll be a bit of an experiment but I I wanted to find a way that I could tie together all of the musical parts of my myself and put them into something you know orchestral and have more layers to it and have some kind of visual aspect to it that people could come and experience that's just more than like a show.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you collaborate and then you like for me like I've now come full circle and I've sort of feel like I've gone on this journey and now I know exactly who I am and what I created and that is now the point that I'm at so I'm sort of like going back to my roots and bringing all the stuff that I've learned along with me and that'll be what I create next.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that's so cool.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm going to ask you one last question that I just thought of I don't know why I don't ask more people this but uh say that you are doing maybe like an autobiography or a biopic starring yourself what actress is playing you I don't know who anyone is yes you can oh come on uh who do I who do I know who would now I'm never gonna ask it again so you've no I'm just like I'm the worst because I don't really know like who anyone is I'm one of those people that like I know the characters but I don't know any like anyone's names.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um god I don't know who's who's the person I don't know uh well I'm I'm trying to think what films I've seen that I really like the the female characters oh god I have no idea like I mean I just I I know I love like Kate Winslet but I don't think she would like play play my role I'm not sure like I'm trying to think um do you have any suggestions well I was I was looking so I've got your Spotify profile up here and there's a picture of you with you had red hair at the time it was real short yeah so I'm picturing actually and I never am able to pronounce your for first name very well is it Charlize Charlize Theron oh Charles yeah actually I do know who she is like I can I'm I'm looking at her on Google images and I'm looking at you and I can see it so I'm gonna go I'm gonna go I'm gonna go her I would take that massive compliment because she's incredibly cool I think uh yeah that's what I'm going who else is really cool is it Emma Emma Stone oh Emma Stone she's a person right yeah yeah um she does lots of like kind of quirky characters oh I can see that too that's almost better yeah I vibe with her as well because she seems quite strange and awkward and funny in in a bizarre way which yeah so are you a huge movie person?
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah I do love I I do love films I just don't really follow um the okay the the the celebrity sort of side to it I just I just watch the films but I don't really know anything about their lives.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well that's fine um well I think I've got a movie that you love it's a really weird um great I love weird um I was looking for like a comedy and somehow this came up but it's a very dark kind of humor.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I'm trying to find her movie and she's got like a hundred movies um with uh movies with Emma Stone with Emma Stone uh there was poor things that I thought was brilliant and then there's this really weird one she did recently begonia yes yes have you seen it I have seen oh yeah we watched that it is she's marvelous in that she's amazing in that I think she shaved her head for real I heard so that's like okay we can we'll we'll pick Emma Stone she's gonna play you okay yeah yeah yeah I I know who she is as well so that's good and she's in one of my favorite comedies Superbad so that's a hilarious film yeah is she in that I don't remember that's pretty yeah she's the one that um Jonah Hill wants to wants to date okay yeah I think I remember yeah all right so we got Emma Stone playing you that's a great choice so so before we close out uh we we kind of touched on this earlier but just you know some last words how we can continue supporting you and your endeavors that actually make a difference just you know tell our listeners where we can find you and how we can best support you.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so you can support my solo work and my songwriting and storytelling through my Patreon page.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Actually it's called uh the Coven of Mishkin so it's got a little bit of a witchy theme to it.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there I put out all my songs early and have a little community of um people that I have on a Discord channel on there so that's a really fun place to hang out where I do live streams and basically just hang out.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's for my personal and my solo work.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then my main project is Crimson Vale which you can find um just at on any of the platforms on YouTube is probably the best place to start.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some pretty wacky music videos so that's that's good.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also have a podcast with my best friend Hannah Pirana called Rockstars Anonymous which is like a support group for uh musicians who aren't quite famous enough you know where we kind of like give career advice um and it's very comedy based and we share like some funny stories and stuff.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um you can find us on all the podcast channels but we we uh we like one called Fountain FM it's um somewhere where you can listen to podcasts but you can also support them by sending little bits of like Bitcoin which is quite cool.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that is neat okay yeah it's very cool uh and I guess um that would be it yeah just uh you know head over to my website to see where I'm touring next and uh please if you like my music just I think the most powerful thing you could ever do for another art for an artist is to just tell a friend have you heard this all right everyone well you heard it from Emma Stone I mean I mean Michigan herself but but seriously everyone go out and support her she she deserves it so um thank you again Michigan truly I can't thank you enough for you know taking the time to talk to me uh I your your candidness and honesty uh your storing tell your storytelling ability it's truly beautiful it's kind of I think a lost art so so I've really enjoyed our conversation for real everyone listening go out there support her follow her journey and uh just keep lifting up not only artists but people like her so so cheers for everyone out there take care of yourselves yeah cheers mate um yeah so take care of yourselves take care of each other and uh we'll see you on the next one