Latest / Drive with John Perlman / COP31 underway

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COP31 underway · Drive with John Perlman

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  Speaker 1: John is on X. At John Perlman.
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  Speaker 2: 702 Drive, let's look at climate issues now, very much
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  Speaker 2: front and center across the world for the gathering COP31.
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  Speaker 2: COP stands for Conference of the Parties in International Relations
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  Speaker 2: and Environmental Law. This is the 31st gathering of its kind.
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  Speaker 2: It's being held in Turkey in the town of Antalya,
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  Speaker 2: although Australia is actually co-host of the gathering today. as well.
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  Speaker 2: More on implications of that In a moment, but let's
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  Speaker 2: first welcome our guest, Professor Jasper Knight. He's Professor of
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  Speaker 2: Physical Geography at Wits University. Prof, welcome and thanks for
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  Speaker 2: your time. When a conference is held over and over again,
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  Speaker 2: as this is annually, invariably people ask the question, well,
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  Speaker 2: have they made any progress as COP28 became COP29 and
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  Speaker 2: on and on it went? It is 10 years since
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  Speaker 2: I think one of the most or best known for
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  Speaker 2: people outside the conversation, the Paris Conference, Treaty was struck.
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  Speaker 2: If we were to use Paris as a peg in
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  Speaker 2: the sand and look at COP 31, has progress been made?
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  Speaker 2: Good afternoon to you.
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  Speaker 1: Well, good afternoon. And that's a really important question. And unfortunately,
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  Speaker 1: the bottom line is there has been very little progress
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  Speaker 1: since 2015 and the Paris Agreement. And of course, this
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  Speaker 1: is actually why these annual conferences are incredibly important, because
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  Speaker 1: we're not just going over the same ground again. They're
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  Speaker 1: important because they help identify strategies that can be adopted
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  Speaker 1: by national governments globally to address upcoming issues. And here,
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  Speaker 1: of course, this is particularly important because climate change is
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  Speaker 1: not going away. Things are getting worse and worse. And therefore,
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  Speaker 1: unless these things are at the forefront... of political debate
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  Speaker 1: and political decision making these things are just going to
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  Speaker 1: be sidelined and this is why it's really important to
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  Speaker 1: keep the focus on these kind of issues related to
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  Speaker 1: climate change not just reducing climate change producing greenhouse gas
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  Speaker 1: emissions but also dealing with the impacts of climate change
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  Speaker 1: and these are things that are incredibly important especially this year.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm looking at an observation in the British paper,
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  Speaker 2: The Guardian. They talk about how at COP 2018 Dubai,
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  Speaker 2: so we go back to 2023 for that, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: quoting from the article, countries agreed for the first time to, quote,
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  Speaker 2: transition away from fossil fuels, end quote, but failed to
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  Speaker 2: set a timeframe or any policies to back up the resolution.
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  Speaker 2: Is that one of the difficulties inherent in trying to
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  Speaker 2: decide huge things with huge numbers of parties, all of
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  Speaker 2: whom come with different mandates?
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  Speaker 1: Well, that is certainly one of the sort of major
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  Speaker 1: sticking points in striking agreements at many of these COP negotiations.
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  Speaker 1: because there are some countries in the world that are
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  Speaker 1: very forward-thinking in wanting to reduce their emissions and are
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  Speaker 1: transitioning away from fossil fuels to renewable energy. But, of course,
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  Speaker 1: there are other countries that are set on increasing their emissions.
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  Speaker 1: And some of the key players, you mentioned kind of
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  Speaker 1: Dubai there in the Middle East, these are, of course,
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  Speaker 1: fossil fuel-producing nations. Their entire economies depend upon oil and gas.
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  Speaker 1: So here, therefore, you know, they have a particular agenda
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  Speaker 1: in wanting to sow discontent and wanting to not strike
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  Speaker 1: an agreement to reduce emissions because this will hit their
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  Speaker 1: bottom line. So these are the kind of political negotiations
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  Speaker 1: that are kind of really important in not just trying
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  Speaker 1: to seek agreement, but they're also the reasons why agreements
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  Speaker 1: are watered down. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Prof, I want to backtrack a little bit from where
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  Speaker 2: I started saying, you know, well, here we are, COP 31,
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  Speaker 2: you know, what exactly has happened? Is it potentially a mistake, though,
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  Speaker 2: to say, well, if everything hasn't been achieved, that means
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  Speaker 2: nothing has been achieved? I mean, is this a game
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  Speaker 2: of meters rather than, you know, much larger and longer strides?
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  Speaker 1: Well, in a sense, you know, every little helps. And
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  Speaker 1: this is important in addressing the causes as well as
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  Speaker 1: the outcomes of ongoing climate change. But many things have
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  Speaker 1: been achieved. So, for example, many countries in the world
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  Speaker 1: are transitioning into renewable energy production and moving away from
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  Speaker 1: fossil fuels. And the cost and installation, for example, of
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  Speaker 1: solar panels is decreasing. And many countries are making massive
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  Speaker 1: strides in this and also in things like wind farms.
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  Speaker 1: So these are important things that we need to identify and,
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  Speaker 1: of course, celebrate. But of course, there are many things
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  Speaker 1: that are bad. not just in terms of the impacts
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  Speaker 1: of climate change, but in terms of the fact that
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  Speaker 1: countries are not dealing with this issue as they should be.
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  Speaker 1: And of course, this is global geopolitics.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is some... skepticism that says a lot of
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  Speaker 2: countries come there and say, do as we say rather
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  Speaker 2: than do as we do. Australia, co-host, you mentioned Dubai,
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  Speaker 2: host back in 2023. Australia, one of the world's largest
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  Speaker 2: miners of coal and exporters of coal and gas. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: is this one of the most difficult things, though, for
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  Speaker 2: a country like ours, for example, where we have a
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  Speaker 2: coal industry that is a significant generator of wealth, prosperity,
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  Speaker 2: and jobs. And, you know, you can go and make
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  Speaker 2: nice on an international stage, but you have local stakeholders who,
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  Speaker 2: when you get back, might say, not so fast.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, that is, of course, the sort of fundamental sticking
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  Speaker 1: point with political decision making. And certainly, of course, in
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  Speaker 1: this country, 94% of our energy comes from a burning
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  Speaker 1: of fossil fuels. And of course, what we're not going
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  Speaker 1: to do is shut down all the coal mines tomorrow.
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  Speaker 1: That is not what's going to happen. But of course,
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  Speaker 1: this therefore requires policies to be in place for the
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  Speaker 1: long term, not just for the short term until the
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  Speaker 1: next election. that will enable the country to have a
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  Speaker 1: long term plan for not just transitioning away from fossil fuels,
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  Speaker 1: but also have a plan for rural economic development, reduction
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  Speaker 1: in poverty, and all of these things go hand in hand.
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  Speaker 1: And this requires a long term solution. And unfortunately, many
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  Speaker 1: countries worldwide are only short term thinking and this is
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  Speaker 1: not going to be enough.
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  Speaker 2: And just finally, Prof, I mean, is there anything on
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  Speaker 2: the agenda, anything after three days of COP31 that you're
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  Speaker 2: looking out for, that we should be looking out for
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  Speaker 2: to see whether the needle moves on it or not?
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  Speaker 1: Well, there are certain kind of key discussion points that
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  Speaker 1: are on the agenda of COP31. The main one is
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  Speaker 1: climate finance. So how are richer countries, especially in the
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  Speaker 1: global north, going to provide money into funds that can
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  Speaker 1: be used to invest in infrastructure and mitigation of climate change,
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  Speaker 1: especially in the global south? We also need to have
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  Speaker 1: more effective policies for reducing emissions. So we mentioned the
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  Speaker 1: Paris Agreement earlier on. Many countries are not fulfilling their commitments,
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  Speaker 1: which are self-identified commitments. under the Paris Agreement. So this
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  Speaker 1: is something that needs to be done. And of course,
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  Speaker 1: this is set against the backdrop of the forthcoming El Nino.
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  Speaker 1: So this is going to cause climate hazards globally next
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  Speaker 1: year in particular. And we've already seen that in certain
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  Speaker 1: parts of the world this year. So 2026 is already
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  Speaker 1: signalled as going to be the hottest year on record
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  Speaker 1: since 1850. And we need to have a plan in
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  Speaker 1: place for dealing with the outcomes of this.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Professor Jasper Knight. He's professor of
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  Speaker 2: physical geography at Wits University. Global warming, is it something
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  Speaker 2: you think about? Climate change, all the issues around the
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  Speaker 2: environmental challenges we face on our planet. Some people say,
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  Speaker 2: I'm just so busy trying to afford fuel and meet
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  Speaker 2: the groceries bill consistently four weeks in a month. But
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  Speaker 2: maybe it's something you are concerned about. Maybe it's something
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  Speaker 2: you're getting a message on from younger people in your life.
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  Speaker 2: I know that there are people who say, well, I
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  Speaker 2: hadn't thought about it much until My teenage children came
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  Speaker 2: home and said, you know, hey, what about this? You
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  Speaker 2: never seem to talk about it or pay it any mind.
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  Speaker 2: Share with me your thoughts on that issue on 011-883-0702
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and 072-702-1702. 28 minutes past four.