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There's No Turn Off Switch · Forged in Fire: The Soldier | The Civilian | The Truth

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  (Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi listeners, we want to let you know
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  that the mental health of our soldiers, veterans,
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  their families, and all victims of war are
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  our priority.
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  Please note that the following episodes contain sensitive
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  material.
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  Know that you are valued and you don't
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  have to walk through trauma alone.
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  Your stories, your lives, have purpose.
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  Richly Productions presents Forged in Fire, The Soldier,
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  The Civilian, The Truth, starring Leah Vasquez and
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  Richard Cannell.
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  Created, written by A.C. Leo.
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  Hey, how are you?
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  Good, you?
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  Ready to talk about Afghanistan?
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  I'm good, we'll see.
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  Fair.
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  Let me know if it gets to be
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  too much and we'll stop.
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  I will.
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  You said that at the end of your
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  deployment, you didn't feel like you made a
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  difference.
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  So let me ask, if a soldier risks
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  their life for months in Afghanistan and comes
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  back feeling that way, was the war campaign
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  even worth it?
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  At the time I deployed, it felt justified.
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  It was after 9-11 and thousands of
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  people had been killed.
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  We knew Osama bin Laden was being sheltered
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  by the Taliban in Afghanistan.
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  Back then, it didn't feel complicated.
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  It felt necessary.
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  I understand that initial reasoning.
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  If you look at the intelligence reports that
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  we're all now aware of, it was estimated
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  that as early as 2003, bin Laden was
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  not even in Afghanistan, but in the tribal
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  regions of Pakistan.
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  At this point, for all we know, he
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  was already there even sooner.
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  How does that leave you feeling?
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  Bad.
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  You're out there risking your life, taking fire
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  and losing people.
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  Then you find out the person you were
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  sent after might not even be there.
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  It makes you feel like you were chasing
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  something that had already slipped through your fingers.
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  So many soldiers died, and innocent civilians were
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  caught in the middle.
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  By the time all the forces finally withdrew
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  years later, the Taliban were back in control.
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  Doesn't that make you question what it was
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  all for?
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  Yeah, it does.
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  You can't help but question it.
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  You look at everything that was sacrificed, lives,
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  time and resources.
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  Then you see how it all ended.
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  It's hard not to feel like on a
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  larger scale, it didn't turn out the way
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  we thought it would, or even hoped it
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  would.
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  I have images from the news of people
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  running across the runway, clinging to the sides
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  of US military planes as they left Afghanistan
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  for good.
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  They fell to their deaths as those planes
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  lifted off.
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  There were bodies on the tarmac.
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  Even a suicide bombing killed US troops trying
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  to help evacuate people.
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  It was mortifying for me as a civilian.
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  How do you even process that after everything
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  you went through?
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  Honestly, I still don't know how to process
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  it.
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  You watch something like that unfold, the chaos,
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  the desperation, the loss.
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  It hits you in a way that's hard
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  to put into words.
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  It feels heavy and confusing, like everything you
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  were a part of is tangled up in
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  that ending.
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  Yet you said you never resented going, not
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  even for a second.
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  How do you reconcile that?
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  Because when you're there, you're not thinking about
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  how it's all going to end.
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  You're thinking about the people next to you,
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  the job in front of you, and doing
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  what you believe is right in that moment.
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  Even if the bigger picture doesn't make sense
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  later, the small things, the people you helped,
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  that part still means something.
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  I hold on to that.
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  When you first got there, you said you
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  did not think Afghans were evil.
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  No, I didn't.
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  The people I saw, men, women, and kids,
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  they were just living their lives, trying to
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  get through the day like anyone else.
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  It was different.
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  You didn't see women out much, and boys
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  were working in the fields at an age
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  that would have been unthinkable back home.
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  A completely different reality than anything I'd known.
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  You mentioned you were briefed about the culture
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  before going?
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  Yeah, we had briefings.
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  People of Afghan descent came in, tried to
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  explain customs, expectations, and things to watch for.
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  But briefings only go so far.
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  They simplify things.
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  Once I got there, I realized how much
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  I didn't understand.
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  It was just different.
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  It was layered and complicated and constantly shifting,
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  depending on where you were and who you
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  were dealing with.
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  So your first impressions were shaped by those
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  briefings, but the reality felt very different.
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  Yeah, exactly.
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  The briefings are there to keep you alert,
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  keep you alive.
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  They focus on risks and patterns and threats.
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  They don't show you the full human side
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  of things.
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  You can't really grasp that until you're standing
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  there in it, trying to connect with people
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  while also wondering if you're in danger.
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  Did the differences you saw among men, women,
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  and children affect how you viewed the society
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  as a whole?
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  Yeah, it did.
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  You notice those differences right away.
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  Women were mostly out of sight, men and
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  boys carried the visible weight of daily life,
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  working and providing.
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  It's a different structure, a different set of
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  expectations.
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  And when you're already in a combat mindset,
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  those differences can feel even more pronounced, sometimes
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  even unsettling.
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  You're trying to understand a culture while also
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  staying alert for threats.
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  Six months in, your impression of the people
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  got worse because...
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  It got heavier, darker.
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  Women or children were used as walking bombs.
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  After that, something shifts.
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  You don't look at things the same way
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  anymore after witnessing something like that unfold.
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  You start second-guessing everything.
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  Your instincts, your reactions, even your own sense
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  of right and wrong.
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  You're under constant stress, and you don't know
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  who you can trust outside your unit.
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  You're seeing violence up close.
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  That kind of pressure changes how you see
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  everything.
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  The exhaustion isn't just physical, it's mental, and
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  it builds every day.
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  You're always on edge, and one moment it's
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  quiet, almost peaceful.
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  Next, a shot cracks past you, and you're
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  back in it.
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  There's no real off switch.
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  I'm so sorry you had to go through
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  all that.
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  Yeah, I appreciate that, but don't be sorry
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  for me.
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  I made it out of that place, but
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  a lot of people didn't.
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  And I'm not in that headspace anymore, even
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  if parts of it stay with you.