Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1154 - The Surprising Truth About Sports Success From Australia's Most Decorated Olympian: An Interview With Emma McKeon

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#1154 - The Surprising Truth About Sports Success From Australia's Most Decorated Olympian: An Interview With Emma McKeon · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: Today, I'm a Happy Families podcast, an interview that I
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Speaker 1: am more excited about than just about any conversation I've
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Speaker 1: ever had. On the podcast, we're going to talk to
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Speaker 1: Emma McKee. And Emma is Australia's most decorated Olympic athlete ever,
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Speaker 1: with fourteen medals all up, six golds and a whole
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Speaker 1: lot of silvers and bronze. Emma has competed at the
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Speaker 1: Olympics in Rio, Tokyo and Paris, a bunch of Commonwealth
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Speaker 1: Games as well, and she joins me today after retiring
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Speaker 1: from Olympic and competitive swimming approximately six weeks ago, to
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Speaker 1: talk about parenting kids in sports more generally and all
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Speaker 1: things swimming and achievement goal oriented. Emma, thank you so
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Speaker 1: much for being with me on the Happy Families Podcast.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
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Speaker 1: You started swimming at a really young age. What kept
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Speaker 1: you coming back to the pool when so many other
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Speaker 1: kids dropping out of sport? I mean, we know that
1:01
Speaker 1: there's a precipitous decline in kids staying in sport once
1:06
Speaker 1: they get into their teenage years. But you just kept
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Speaker 1: going even though you'd started young. What kept you coming back?
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Speaker 2: I definitely still had a lot of friends in there.
1:14
Speaker 2: Even though there were a lot of friends that were
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Speaker 2: dropping out, and I would also stop and start a lot.
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Speaker 2: I wasn't enjoying it, putting too much pressure on myself
1:22
Speaker 2: or that kind of thing. And I think what ended
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Speaker 2: up with me coming back was my parents because they
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Speaker 2: were very relaxed about it all. They never pressured me
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Speaker 2: either way to swim or not to swim, or to
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Speaker 2: achieve or perform or anything. They just wanted me to
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Speaker 2: enjoy what I was doing and be happy in what
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Speaker 2: I was doing, find something I was passionate about. So
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Speaker 2: I think that's what brought me back all the time.
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Speaker 1: This is a really big deal, and I'm so glad
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Speaker 1: that you brought your parents straight into it, because any
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Speaker 1: parent who's listening to this conversation is going to be saying, oh,
1:50
Speaker 1: but I really want my kids to achieve. I want
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Speaker 1: them to set goals. I want them to be not
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Speaker 1: just competent, but I want them to excel somewhere. And
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Speaker 1: as a parent, you sit there on assembly and you
2:00
Speaker 1: watch your kids get the sports Star of the year,
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Speaker 1: or you watch everyone else's kids get it, and you think,
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Speaker 1: what am I doing wrong? Your dad won medals at
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Speaker 1: Commonwealth Games like He's. You've got a really strong swimming
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Speaker 1: pedigree in your family. So many parents struggle with knowing
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Speaker 1: how much to push and when to pull back with
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Speaker 1: their kids, especially when it comes to sport. How did
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Speaker 1: your parents get this balance right? Why did this work
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Speaker 1: for you?
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Speaker 2: I think it was definitely the balance. It was like
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Speaker 2: not pushing me to do a certain thing and not
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Speaker 2: pushing me to achieve a certain level or anything like that.
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Speaker 2: It was purely about enjoyment, especially from that young age,
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Speaker 2: because I think they knew that if there's something that
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Speaker 2: I love and that I enjoy and it's coming from me,
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Speaker 2: then that means the longer that I'll be doing it
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Speaker 2: for and for them, Like they wanted me to learn
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Speaker 2: how to swim from a young age, and then it
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Speaker 2: was all kind of directed by me and they encouraged that.
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Speaker 2: But it's that fine balance. And then also having the
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Speaker 2: balance then allowed me to be self determined and have
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Speaker 2: the self want to set goals and move ahead and
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Speaker 2: things like that.
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Speaker 1: So I'm listening to what you're saying and reading between
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Speaker 1: the lines just a little bit. You're talking about encouragement.
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Speaker 1: You're talking about how they allowed you to make these choices.
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Speaker 1: But if I'm understanding you correctly, that would indicate that
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Speaker 1: there was still involvement. It's not like they said, hey, Emma,
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Speaker 1: to your life, do what you want. It sounds to
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Speaker 1: me like they were involved in conversations with you consistently
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Speaker 1: about what you were doing. What were those conversations like?
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Speaker 1: Because I can imagine, especially again, having a dad who's
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Speaker 1: got this sort of background. I can imagine him watching
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Speaker 1: you go to a race, or showing up to training
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Speaker 1: and seeing you swim in the pool. I mean, he
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Speaker 1: owned a swim school for goodness sakes. I would imagine
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Speaker 1: that it would have been hard for him to not say, hey, Emma,
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Speaker 1: you need to stretch out more with your right arm,
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Speaker 1: or I want you to work on your bilateral breathing.
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Speaker 1: I can imagine him saying, your kick's not quite right.
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Speaker 1: He wants to give you that coaching. Have they tread
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Speaker 1: that line in terms of being involved and encouraging and
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Speaker 1: yet not going too far, not pushing. That's that's something
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Speaker 1: that so many parents really struggle with.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well my dad was actually my coach, so he
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Speaker 2: was giving me those tips. Yeah. From about I think
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Speaker 2: I started swimming with him and his squad when I
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Speaker 2: was about thirteen, So before that I had other coaches
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Speaker 2: and mini squad coaches and things like that. And then
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Speaker 2: from about thirteen, I think it was thirteen, I moved
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Speaker 2: to my dad's squad and so he was giving me
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Speaker 2: those tips. But for him it was, you know, it
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Speaker 2: was much harder for him than it was for me
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Speaker 2: to have my dad as my coach, because it was
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Speaker 2: amazing and I'm so lucky that I have my dad
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Speaker 2: who was my coach, and how he managed it all
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Speaker 2: because he balanced the father and coach extremely well, and
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Speaker 2: as soon as we left the pool, he's my dad
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Speaker 2: and at the pool he is also my dad. So yeah,
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Speaker 2: it was very hard for him to balance, I think,
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Speaker 2: but it was more like he knew if there was
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Speaker 2: a goal that I had that i'd set for myself,
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Speaker 2: then he knew, this is what you have to do
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Speaker 2: to get there, and then it's up to me to
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Speaker 2: make that happen, and he'll affist that. And then my mom,
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Speaker 2: she was a swimmer as well, so she knew all
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Speaker 2: about swimming, and I guess just knew how to I
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Speaker 2: think knew my personality that as soon as I leave
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Speaker 2: the pool, I'm you know, a normal kid as.
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Speaker 1: A teenager, I grew up swimming. My parents forced me
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Speaker 1: to do it. I just wanted to go surfing, but
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Speaker 1: I swam at a reasonable level. In fact, one of
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Speaker 1: the guys that I competed against went and won an
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Speaker 1: Olympic goal in a relay. But I was the kid
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Speaker 1: who I didn't set goals at all. I had no
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Speaker 1: interest in setting goals. In fact, my only goal was
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Speaker 1: to get to the other end of the pool so
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Speaker 1: I could jump out and go and spend ten minutes
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Speaker 1: in the toilet so I didn't have to swim the laps.
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Speaker 1: You've talked about how you're the one that's setting the goals.
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Speaker 1: Did your parents say, do you have any goals? Did
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Speaker 1: they encourage you to set goals? What was that process?
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Speaker 1: Because clearly, if you've got a vision that you're working towards,
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Speaker 1: that's going to help you to be inspired to keep
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Speaker 1: on pushing. So who was in charge of that goal
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Speaker 1: setting and how much were your parents involved in what
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Speaker 1: you decided?
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Speaker 2: It was mostly set by me. Like from a young age,
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Speaker 2: I wanted to go to the Olympics and be like
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Speaker 2: the people that I was watching race on television, and
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Speaker 2: so then me saying that, and my parents, I guess
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Speaker 2: hearing me say that, then they could just encourage what
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Speaker 2: that was, what that goal was. And when you're young,
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Speaker 2: like that's like the big dream, it's not really like
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Speaker 2: a goal, whereas the goals are those short term type
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Speaker 2: things like I want to make this qualifying time to
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Speaker 2: get to the state championships and things like that. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: it was mostly driven by me and then encouraged by them.
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Speaker 1: So here's the follow up question to that. Because my
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Speaker 1: kids will often tell me that they've got a goal.
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Speaker 1: Their goal is to wake up this many days a
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Speaker 1: week at such and such a time and go for
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Speaker 1: a run, or go for a swim, or do something
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Speaker 1: that's healthy for them physically. Or they've got an academic
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Speaker 1: goal they want to get a certain grade and a
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Speaker 1: certain subject. And then as a parent, I see them
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Speaker 1: not getting up and not doing the work that's necessary
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Speaker 1: to get the goal. So they expressed the goal, it's
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Speaker 1: their goal, not mine, and now they're not doing the
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Speaker 1: work for it. Did you ever do that, and if so,
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Speaker 1: how did your parents respond? Did they have to say, hey, Emma,
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Speaker 1: you told us that you wanted to do this, and
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Speaker 1: now you're not doing the work, like do you want
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Speaker 1: it or do you not want it? Or do they
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Speaker 1: just stand back?
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Speaker 2: I do it all the time. Like when I was
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Speaker 2: like you know, still at school and everything, I would
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Speaker 2: not get out of bed, oh, like often to go
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Speaker 2: to training, but it was always like I had to
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Speaker 2: set my alarm and like me and my dad and
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Speaker 2: my brother, we were going off to training together a
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Speaker 2: quarter to five in the morning, and if you're not
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Speaker 2: downstairs by ten to five when we're leaving, then that
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Speaker 2: means you're not coming. And then I would get the
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Speaker 2: feeling myself of like guilt that I didn't get up
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Speaker 2: because I know I need to and know I want
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Speaker 2: to achieve these things, and then I'd have to sit
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Speaker 2: in that feeling, and then eventually you learn I don't
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Speaker 2: want to have that feeling, so get up and go.
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Speaker 2: But then my dad being like that and that you
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Speaker 2: have to set your alarm and be downstairs at that time.
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Speaker 2: That taught me the self determination and you know you're
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Speaker 2: doing it for you, You're doing it because you want to,
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Speaker 2: and this is what you have to do to get
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Speaker 2: what you want, which is like I've carried that through
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Speaker 2: my whole career and will for My whole life is
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Speaker 2: like that. Self discipline and accountability and things like that.
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Speaker 1: You've used the term self determination a couple of times.
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Speaker 1: The theory that all of my parenting work is based
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Speaker 1: on is called self determination theory, and it's a profoundly
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Speaker 1: valuable psychological theory that argues that we will have when
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Speaker 1: we have to be compelled to do something is because
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Speaker 1: we're in an environment where our psychological needs are not
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Speaker 1: being But when we are doing things with a high
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Speaker 1: level of commitment, we're doing those things because how psychological
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Speaker 1: needs are being supported. Those needs are. We need to
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Speaker 1: have good relationships with the people with whom we're doing
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Speaker 1: that activity. We need to feel a sense of competence
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Speaker 1: and capability, or at least that we're progressing towards competence. Last,
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Speaker 1: and I think the lynchpin to the whole thing is
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Speaker 1: this thing called autonomy. We have to be doing it
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Speaker 1: because we're choosing it, rather than because it's being forced
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Speaker 1: upon me. As I listen to your story, here's what
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Speaker 1: I'm hearing. I'm hearing Emma mckeirn, Australia's most decorated Olympian ever,
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Speaker 1: saying I liked the people that I was there with
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Speaker 1: because they were my friends, no Am, my family. I
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Speaker 1: was good at it and knew that I was getting
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Speaker 1: better because I was getting a high quality of instruction
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Speaker 1: and therefore and I was able to measure my progress
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Speaker 1: and see my improvements and my increase in capability, capacity, competence,
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Speaker 1: and ultimately this came down to me. I was the
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Speaker 1: one who was choosing it. It feels like this is
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Speaker 1: the very core of what your success has been, being
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Speaker 1: an environment that's suppor those needs.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, supports the needs and then also supports from the
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Speaker 2: young age. It has to support the enjoyment is the
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Speaker 2: first thing. And then while you are enjoying it, you're
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Speaker 2: learning all these other skills of turning up on time
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Speaker 2: and working hard on your little skills, and you're learning
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Speaker 2: all these other skills that you are then going to
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Speaker 2: need as you get older. But the enjoyment part is
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Speaker 2: the focus we're getting young, Evan.
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Speaker 1: We often hear about the sacrifices that athletes make up
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Speaker 1: and down the pool, staring at that black line hour
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Speaker 1: after hour after hour, but we rarely hear about the joy.
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Speaker 1: What were some of the most enjoyable aspects of your
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Speaker 1: journey to Olympic glory that parents might want to create
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Speaker 1: for their own children in sport.
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Speaker 2: I mean it's different from when I'm young, when I
10:54
Speaker 2: was young to when I was older. When I was older,
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Speaker 2: it was having the things that are all reflect John
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Speaker 2: is having my family in the stands at the Olympics
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Speaker 2: or World Championships and knowing they're there and you know,
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Speaker 2: they've traveled around the world to watch me and share
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Speaker 2: me on and support me, and knowing that whether I
11:11
Speaker 2: do well, whether I don't do well, like they know
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Speaker 2: whether I'm going to be happy or not with my performance,
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Speaker 2: but they're the same no matter what as well. So
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Speaker 2: that's one of the fun and enjoyable and special parts.
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Speaker 2: And then when I was young the fun things that
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Speaker 2: it's a social part, like traveling around two different meats
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Speaker 2: and things with my friends and playing handball and seeing
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Speaker 2: what I can do once I got in for the
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Speaker 2: race but then got out and I'm you know, being
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Speaker 2: social and hanging out with my friends.
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Speaker 1: Those three words no matter what are particularly meaningful to me.
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Speaker 1: It's something that I emphasize a lot when I'm talking
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Speaker 1: to parents. I just love that, but I also love
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Speaker 1: for that younger element. There's a recurring theme in this conversation,
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Speaker 1: that is, my parents didn't push me, and when I
11:56
Speaker 1: wasn't swimming, I was just being a kid having fun
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Speaker 1: with my friends. Like handball. You go to the meet
12:01
Speaker 1: so you can see everyone and play handball, and oh, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I've got to go and swim those races. That's the
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Speaker 1: feeling that I'm getting from you.
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Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah, that's what kept me. That's what brought me
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Speaker 2: the enjoyment and kept me going when I was young.
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Speaker 1: Emma, if you look back at your teenage years and
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Speaker 1: you're swimming there, what would you wish for for every
12:20
Speaker 1: young athlete from their coaches and parents? What do you
12:22
Speaker 1: wish that more coaches and parents understood about the children,
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Speaker 1: the adolescents that their coaching or encouraging to to do well.
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Speaker 2: I think it's from that really young age it's not
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Speaker 2: pushing kids too hard, and not in swimming or in
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Speaker 2: other sports, but for swimming as a sport that I know,
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Speaker 2: not making them do kilometers and kilometers of swimming and
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Speaker 2: laps up to lapse, and I don't think that's healthy
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Speaker 2: from a really young age. It's got to be the enjoyment.
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Speaker 2: You've got to find the love for it, because that's
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Speaker 2: what's going to keep you going for longer. It's got
12:55
Speaker 2: to be, like I was saying earlier, the enjoyment and
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Speaker 2: then teaching those small that ended up being quite big
13:01
Speaker 2: skills of paying attention to the little details or turning
13:06
Speaker 2: up on time, or working well with your teammates and
13:09
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But the focus has got to
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Speaker 2: be that enjoyment because kids, Well, for me, I know,
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Speaker 2: I hated doing life after life after that when I
13:18
Speaker 2: had to do it. And if I was doing k's
13:21
Speaker 2: and k's when I was young, I would not have
13:22
Speaker 2: made it through anywhere close to what I have.
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Speaker 1: Well, your family, as we've already identified, has a really
13:29
Speaker 1: rich swimming heritage. How do you think that influenced your
13:33
Speaker 1: relationship with the sport And was there ever a time
13:36
Speaker 1: where you just thought, no, I want to I want
13:37
Speaker 1: to get away from swimming because this is what my
13:39
Speaker 1: family is known for and I don't want to do that. Like,
13:43
Speaker 1: was there ever any resistance for you?
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Speaker 2: There was a little bit, but that kind of came
13:47
Speaker 2: from me, Like I never felt any pressure because my
13:50
Speaker 2: family was in swimming or anything like that to do it.
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Speaker 2: But different times, like I guess I thought that I didn't.
14:00
Speaker 2: I want to kind of get away from it a
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Speaker 2: little bit during my teenage years and things, but I
14:04
Speaker 2: think I eventually realized, no, I do love this and
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Speaker 2: it's such a special thing to be able to do
14:10
Speaker 2: with my family.
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Speaker 1: I love that you realize that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, that's the that's the key. Okay, Emma,
14:18
Speaker 1: do you have the mental capacity for a lightning round?
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Speaker 2: I've just had a coffee, so help, I'm so.
14:28
Speaker 1: Ready for this. You know the deal? A lightning round?
14:31
Speaker 1: First thing that comes into your mind. Very short answers.
14:33
Speaker 1: I mean, if you need to elaborate, you can, but
14:36
Speaker 1: looking for the quick instant response. Question number one. First
14:40
Speaker 1: thing you do when you wake up, make a copy
14:43
Speaker 1: even before a swim. Yeah, most embarrassing pool deck moment.
14:49
Speaker 2: Maybe diving in and doing butterfly when I meant to
14:52
Speaker 2: do freestyle and then switching over.
14:53
Speaker 1: That would be embarrassing. I apresume they disqualify you for that.
14:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you were to swimmer, what sport would you
15:00
Speaker 1: have pursued?
15:02
Speaker 2: Surfing? Hurican?
15:04
Speaker 1: Do you shred?
15:06
Speaker 2: Not? Now? I never did it, actually, but I loved
15:10
Speaker 2: it when I was like around fifteen.
15:12
Speaker 1: Surfing is my sport.
15:13
Speaker 2: Oh is it? I love it?
15:14
Speaker 1: Absolutely love it. Emma mcke and your favorite post race.
15:18
Speaker 2: Meal a burger and chip.
15:21
Speaker 1: So healthy. That's not what I was expecting at all.
15:24
Speaker 1: Most played song on your warm up list some Beyonce.
15:28
Speaker 1: We're a superstition that you've adopted before a race.
15:33
Speaker 2: I don't have any superstitions.
15:35
Speaker 1: With a superstition you've heard about and you are welcome
15:38
Speaker 1: to name the athlete.
15:39
Speaker 2: I've heard about people not wanting to stand on a
15:42
Speaker 2: crack like in the ground.
15:47
Speaker 1: Wow, because that's going to slow them down that much? Yeah, amazing.
15:51
Speaker 1: What's a better feeling breaking a world record or eating
15:56
Speaker 1: pizza after months.
15:57
Speaker 2: Of training breaking a world record?
16:01
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. What's the most unusual place
16:05
Speaker 1: that you've done a workout?
16:07
Speaker 2: Maybe a hotel room or I mean during COVID we
16:11
Speaker 2: were working out in all kinds of strange places.
16:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd imagine. What's your go to karaoke song?
16:18
Speaker 2: Maybe it's an abba.
16:20
Speaker 1: Most memorable goggle malfunction moment.
16:23
Speaker 2: Probably when you just dive in and they just come
16:25
Speaker 2: down to your neck. They've just put some water.
16:29
Speaker 1: Does that happen often? I mean, there's that legendary story
16:32
Speaker 1: about Michael Phelps goggles filling up with water, but he
16:36
Speaker 1: counted his strokes and still said a world record. Is
16:39
Speaker 1: it a regular thing. I mean, I'm a swimmer, but
16:41
Speaker 1: I never have issues with my goggles.
16:45
Speaker 2: It can happen. It can happen, but I like, before
16:48
Speaker 2: I will race or before I'll dive in, I'm pressing
16:50
Speaker 2: them so hard on my face to make sure it
16:52
Speaker 2: doesn't happen. I bet.
16:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, this is kind of a tricky lightning round question,
16:57
Speaker 1: but I love to ask it. Welcome to take as
16:59
Speaker 1: long as you need to think through the best piece
17:01
Speaker 1: of advice that you've ever ignored.
17:07
Speaker 2: After Tokyo, I continued to race. I took a small
17:13
Speaker 2: break and then tried to keep racing again. And probably
17:17
Speaker 2: I needed to come home and not race because I
17:19
Speaker 2: was so mentally drained and burnt out. And I ignored
17:22
Speaker 2: that and stayed over. He's racing.
17:24
Speaker 1: So the advice was take a breather, let your body recover,
17:27
Speaker 1: and you just said.
17:28
Speaker 2: No, and I didn't do that. Yeah.
17:31
Speaker 1: Interesting, obviously retirement now, but when you were competing, what
17:36
Speaker 1: was the longest you would go without getting in a pool.
17:40
Speaker 2: After an Olympics, I'd off and take about three to
17:43
Speaker 2: four months off.
17:45
Speaker 1: That's a much bigger gap than I expected.
17:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's but that's only once every four years
17:50
Speaker 2: or five years after to chat.
17:54
Speaker 1: If you could instantly master any skill outside of swimming,
17:57
Speaker 1: what would that be?
17:58
Speaker 2: Singing? Huh?
18:00
Speaker 1: How do you go? How do you really?
18:03
Speaker 2: Yeah?
18:04
Speaker 1: So abbot karaoke is wonderfully terrible, wonderfully entertaining. Is the
18:08
Speaker 1: word terrible? Just delightfully fun? Two questions to go? First
18:13
Speaker 1: gold medal or last gold medal? Which one meant more?
18:18
Speaker 2: The first one because it's something I job sits I
18:21
Speaker 2: was very little, like five years old. And then in
18:25
Speaker 2: Rio it was on the first night of the swimming
18:29
Speaker 2: standing on top of the podium. It's just such a
18:30
Speaker 2: surreal experience and you don't, like, you imagine what it
18:35
Speaker 2: might feel like, but just actually standing there is a
18:38
Speaker 2: whole nother, a whole other feeling.
18:41
Speaker 1: Does the feeling of winning gold, setting a world record?
18:46
Speaker 1: Does the feeling diminish over time because you have done
18:48
Speaker 1: it so many times, especially compared to most athletes. Do
18:52
Speaker 1: you kind of get to the point where you're like, yep,
18:54
Speaker 1: expected it, Yep, did it? Box ticked what's next? Or
18:58
Speaker 1: is it one of those things where you really do
19:00
Speaker 1: in that moment every time and think, oh my goodness,
19:02
Speaker 1: fastest ever.
19:04
Speaker 2: The feeling is just as surreal and just as special
19:07
Speaker 2: every single time. But I would say there's also that
19:12
Speaker 2: element of Okay, what's next, what more can I do?
19:15
Speaker 2: Which is part of being an athlete or part of
19:17
Speaker 2: my experience as an athlete, always wanting to be better. So
19:20
Speaker 2: that was something I had to like juggle because you
19:23
Speaker 2: need to be able to sit in it and feel
19:25
Speaker 2: crowd and all the good feelings.
19:27
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about your early swimming again, because
19:29
Speaker 1: most parents who are listening to this are going to
19:30
Speaker 1: have kids who were twelve and younger or fourteen and
19:33
Speaker 1: younger who were involved in sport, and quite often kids
19:36
Speaker 1: are having high levels of anxiety before they compete in
19:39
Speaker 1: a race, or before they go out and play a
19:40
Speaker 1: big game, or before they sit down and do an exam.
19:43
Speaker 1: You've spoken about experiencing anxiety before races, mostly big races,
19:48
Speaker 1: which makes sense. When you were younger, did you feel
19:51
Speaker 1: that same sort of pressure. Was there anxiety before you
19:54
Speaker 1: swam when you were a twelve year old or a
19:57
Speaker 1: sixteen year old.
19:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely still nervous when I was young, and
20:01
Speaker 2: that's just because I cared about what I was about
20:03
Speaker 2: to do and didn't know what I might be about
20:07
Speaker 2: to do. And so the nerves are actually were same
20:09
Speaker 2: whether whether I was at a state level meet or
20:13
Speaker 2: through to when I eventually was at in the Olympic.
20:15
Speaker 2: So nerves are nerves and that's what it is.
20:19
Speaker 1: So if a parents talking to their child, and their
20:20
Speaker 1: child's saying, I'm just so nervous and I'm really anxious.
20:22
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can compete or I don't know
20:24
Speaker 1: if I'm going to do any any good, what would
20:27
Speaker 1: you say, like, how did you develop the mental tools
20:29
Speaker 1: to manage those big moments. What advice would you give
20:31
Speaker 1: to any young athletes who are saying, I'm just I'm
20:33
Speaker 1: facing all this pressure, I don't know if I can
20:34
Speaker 1: do it.
20:35
Speaker 2: I think it's refraining it in your head and seeing
20:38
Speaker 2: the nerves is a good thing. The nerves are like
20:40
Speaker 2: little doubts of energy that you can use in your race,
20:43
Speaker 2: and nerves are showing you that you care. Nerves are
20:47
Speaker 2: showing you that you're doing something brave and worthwhile, and
20:51
Speaker 2: I think it's reframing it in more of a positive way.
20:54
Speaker 1: There's a psychological strategy called self distancing, and in so
20:58
Speaker 1: many ways you've just described what they is. Is okay?
21:01
Speaker 1: A couple more questions, Emma, you've achieved extraordinary success. Everybody
21:06
Speaker 1: knows that, but what I'd like to know is what
21:09
Speaker 1: role failure played in your development?
21:12
Speaker 2: A huge amount. The I think the failure is Everyone
21:17
Speaker 2: says it, but it's really true, is the failure is
21:20
Speaker 2: what has taught me the most. It's taught me how
21:23
Speaker 2: to get back up again. It's taught me how to
21:25
Speaker 2: pay attention to what can I do better next time.
21:29
Speaker 2: It's given me motivation at times, and it's taught me
21:33
Speaker 2: a lot about myself as well. So and like managing
21:38
Speaker 2: managing it and being disappointed because disappoint it's okay to
21:42
Speaker 2: be disappointed when you do fail because you care, and
21:45
Speaker 2: then being able to put it aside and move on
21:47
Speaker 2: forward and try again next time. Missing the London twenty
21:51
Speaker 2: twelve team for Olympics. I missed that one by zero
21:55
Speaker 2: point one of a second. So that was definitely a
22:03
Speaker 2: big factor in my career because I think had I
22:07
Speaker 2: made that team, the story would have been very different.
22:09
Speaker 2: To what it is now. But I missed that team.
22:12
Speaker 2: I ended up stopping swimming. I didn't want to wait
22:14
Speaker 2: another four years to go to the Olympics all that
22:17
Speaker 2: kind of thing. And then eventually learned from lessons I
22:20
Speaker 2: had to learn, and then came back into the spot,
22:22
Speaker 2: into the sport, and you know, I had to learn
22:25
Speaker 2: about that. I had to pay more attention to the
22:27
Speaker 2: small things. I had to be turning up every session,
22:29
Speaker 2: and like when I was there, I would always work hard,
22:32
Speaker 2: but I had to turn up more often. And then
22:36
Speaker 2: I had to also learn how to deal with the
22:38
Speaker 2: pressure I was putting on myself as well.
22:40
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of parents worry about the
22:41
Speaker 1: children becoming two one dimensional and pursuit of their sporting excellence.
22:45
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's the parents pushing them. Other times though, it's
22:47
Speaker 1: kids that are really really focused themselves. What did you
22:50
Speaker 1: do to maintain balance while you're pursuing those goals?
22:53
Speaker 2: All through teenage years, I was doing a bit of everything,
22:56
Speaker 2: Like I was setting big goals, and those big goals
23:00
Speaker 2: time is qualifying for a meet or doing a PB
23:03
Speaker 2: or things like that in swimming. But I was doing
23:05
Speaker 2: a bit of everything. I was doing basketball, dancing, whatever
23:10
Speaker 2: I wanted to try, like I was doing piano, So
23:13
Speaker 2: there was that balance across a lot of activities.
23:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much research that says, don't concentrate on
23:19
Speaker 1: one thing too hard, too soon, Just do stuff, experience
23:24
Speaker 1: a range of activity, breadth of activity, and then as
23:27
Speaker 1: you get older, zero internet and everything you've said seems
23:29
Speaker 1: to point in that direction. My final question if there
23:32
Speaker 1: is a parent who really wants their child to succeed
23:34
Speaker 1: and their child does not seem to have the get
23:36
Speaker 1: up and go that and Emma McKean clearly demonstrated with
23:40
Speaker 1: that wonderful self determining approach to life and specifically to
23:44
Speaker 1: your sport, what would you say to that parent.
23:49
Speaker 2: I think, once you've told the kid that to get
23:54
Speaker 2: somewhere you have to work hard at it, once the
23:58
Speaker 2: kid knows that they have to learn that from them else.
24:01
Speaker 2: But also maybe they haven't found the thing that they're
24:04
Speaker 2: passionate about to make them want to get up and
24:06
Speaker 2: go yet.
24:08
Speaker 1: Make it about the child rather than about you.
24:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:11
Speaker 1: Evan mckairn really appreciate your generosity in chatting with me.
24:15
Speaker 2: Thank you, all right, thank you, it's good chat.
24:17
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