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CE Pro Podcast #170: Unpacking Lightapalooza 2026 · CE Pro Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everyone, welcome back to the CE Pro Podcast.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: I am Zach Ricomo, executive editor of CE Pro.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: And with me is Nick Bulver, the senior editor for CE Pro.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Nick, what's shaking?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh nothing much.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Just got over a ton of snow in um New England.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, after coming back from uh after coming back from Texas, it's um well feels like home and it's a little bit of a culture shock.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, dude, in in uh Barcelona for ISE, it was like 55.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny, the locals were all bundled up with like winter hats and coats, and I was like, this is great.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Then wear a jacket, it was it was the best.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Then I got back to like you know, single-digit uh weather, which was uh yeah, not not my car.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't belong in New England.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm uh I'm a warm weather boy.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh see, I'm the exact opposite.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was out in Texas, it was 80 degrees, I was roasting in my skin.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to go back to that uh chilled atmosphere.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'd rather be sweating profusely than be cold.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um I like to go outside, so all right.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Nick, you were in Texas for Letapalooza, were you not?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: I might have been.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Ah.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: So let's talk about Letapalooza.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, what you know, what is it?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um tell us a little bit about it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um for for those who haven't been.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, who who exhibits, who who attends.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, give it give us a crash course here.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so for people who haven't had a chance to experience Lytapalooza or this is their first time hearing about it, um, the event is basically a big trade show uh all centered around lighting.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Although calling it a trade show might be a bit of a misnomer because uh first and foremost, it's an educational event.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh people go there to learn about lighting.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think uh God, it's hard to pull from the the numbers, but uh Tom has given me some pretty insane metrics uh over the years where it's like something along the lines of like you know, multiple years worth of cumulative education happen um uh across each event.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that's because it's like three full days of just um you know certifications, educational courses, you name it, all focused.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was originally focused around lighting, now it's expanded to include uh power and in some cases networking.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but these are kind of being structured as supportive elements to lighting.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so if you think about like Lightapalooza, it's really trying to capture the entire ecosystem that supports lighting, um, in addition to like you know what you would immediately assume as an integrator um with controls and fixtures and all that stuff.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um in general, um, it's marketed toward it in general, it's a show for integrators.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you know, you go there, there's tons of uh control platforms exhibiting.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think all of the major control platforms are usually there.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had to make that caveat because uh Lutron wasn't wasn't there this year, and their uh presence was uh sorely missed.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: But um uh yeah, control platforms all over the place.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: You have um lighting uh lighting fixture manufacturers that are familiar to integrators like DMF lighting and uh and um DMF lighting, environmental lights, uh FX Luminaire was there.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then you also have new fixture manufacturers making the crossover from design into the custom integration space.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel as though um for integrators, that's one of the other, you know, aside from the um the education, um, that's one of the other main values of Lightapalooza is being able to interact with these newer fixture manufacturers that are coming into the space.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh trying to think if I'm missing anything else.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh I think that's kind of a good crash course.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: You you will occasionally see designers and architects there.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I myself have not yet run into them, but uh from my talks with uh Tom, there have been you know designers and architects kind of present at the show to a smaller degree, because at the end of the day, you're it's it's a lighting, it's a lighting education show.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and a lot of the stuff that is being um stated at this show, uh it's not entirely tied to uh custom integration best practices.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it is tied to lighting design, a lot of it is tied to um you know research into lighting.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's very interesting and very unique as a show uh built around custom integration.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and I think for you know, a lot and a lot of integrators I think are are are realizing if they haven't already that that lighting is really kind of the bridge to designers and architects, um, along with shading, I think.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, lighting is as much a a design element as it is a just a functional, you know part of the home.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Another another thing that I have heard integrators talk about uh for the guys that are really, really owning lighting, is that um it's because I think it's easy for a lot of people to look at lighting as just kind of this category that you sort of pour all your efforts in, and then all of the other categories like you know, home theater, home audio, like those kind of wither uh so you can focus on lighting.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: But from a lot of the the guys that I've been talking to at these shows, um it's actually quite the opposite.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, from from the guys that are like really owning lighting and are really finding tremendous success in lighting, um, part of that success has been leveraging lighting as an entry into the conversation for projects.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And once they're in the door, they're specifying the the lighting fixtures, they're specifying the uh the controls to like help manage everything.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: They just go like, hey, so since we're putting this control uh in here, do you want us to hook up like you know, any audio, any video, like any of that sort of stuff?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so lighting for a lot of people has kind of become this base upon which all other aspects of their business can branch out from.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that they're able to sell lighting.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh because they're so good at selling lighting, they can then very easily sell audio, video, networking, power and energy if you're into that sort of thing.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's it's a good kind of um diving board, basically.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: I love the idea of um you know leading with lighting, um, which really um you know kind of helps connect you to those, you know, stakeholders that you know much earlier in the project.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: On that note, I uh I interviewed just some designers and architects um in the January, February, February issue of C Pro.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Just to like hear from them, hear from from straight from their mouths, like, you know, how they um like to partner with integrators, how they like to, you know, discover, you know, uh, you know, what technology can do for for their clients.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: And the ones that were less familiar with or less receptive to that idea, both said um, you know, if if integrators, you know, led more, you know, with lighting and shading and those kind of you know, design elements first, they'd be kind of more receptive to it and and uh and more welcoming to to you know partnering with integrators, which I think is is uh you know just telling.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually interesting that you brought up um, you know, talking to uh designers on that matter, because um while I was at the show, I was talking to a few people in the um this is gonna sound completely bonkers because you probably wouldn't think energy would be something that is on the radar of designers right now, but um, in talking with some of the energy or uh the uh the um manufacturers dealing with like energy management and uh power conditioning, um, they are one of them in particular was going out too because um K Biz and IBS were running at the same time of light as Light of Palooza this year.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they were actually immediately after Light of Palooza were going right out to uh K Biz to talk to some of the top designers out there on the topic of power management.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because and and again, like you wouldn't normally think of this, especially like if you're if your work in your life has been focused on custom integration, you wouldn't really think about this too much.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but on the design side of things, designers are specifying these really, especially the top-end designers um working in luxury homes that integrators are going to be working in.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: They are specifying these top-end appliances that much in the same way that a lot of the lighting integrators are offering, have these little computer chips in them to help control everything and are really susceptible to power fluctuations.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the appliances they're offering have these microprocessors in them that are super susceptible to power fluctuations.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And designers are starting to figure out that oh, if power is if like bad power is running rampant in the home, my appliance is going to, you know, crap out on me, and then I'm going to be left holding the bag because I'm the one who recommended this.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden it died on the homeowner.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: The homeowner isn't going to think, oh, it's just a power issue.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna think it's an appliance issue and that I guided them the wrong way.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: So they're looking for ways, they're talking to manufacturers right now to find ways to connect with integrators to work on that power issue.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, yeah, absolutely.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a lot of these these themes were were hit on in the uh the um first ever, uh CE Pro Power and Energy Management Deep Dive, um, which you can find on the website.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, and you know, appliances get blamed, but also control gets blamed a lot when things don't work because that's how folks are interfacing with their home systems.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so apologies to control manufacturers for for taking the brunt of some of these um, you know, uh whatever you want to call them, ease of use issues.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um but but yeah, and I think uh there's something to be said for for power being the real culprit in some of these issues.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so um did did Lightapaloosa uh you know reinforce that you know lighting is you know um you know becoming a bigger part of of the CI industry?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I would I would say so.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously every year it grows is kind of like a reinforcement of that.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And this year, once again, it grew with attendance.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't have the exact numbers, but it was um one of the I don't have the exact numbers, but the trade show uh was I'm pretty sure a bigger size, and it felt like there were because day one, um day one of the show, it there was kind of like a unique timing where the trade show floor was open and none of the educational events had started first, so everybody was on the show floor, and I am talking like shoulder to shoulder in some places.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um tons of people, uh tons of people were there.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it definitely felt like there were there was a bigger crowd at the show this year, but um just even talking to a lot of the integrators that were at the show, um, you know, it it it it was it it was it was impressive how many first timers were there.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was also impressive that for all of the first timers, because I was asking around, uh I had asked Tom, you know, like with how how many of them.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, this real quick, let's just clarify who Tom is.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um Tom D'Harty, uh the the brains behind Light of Palooza, um, runs everything from the show from uh like planning the education, uh planning who's gonna be exhibiting.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, uh that's that's who Tom is when I am saying Tom.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: And Tom Daugherty, the director of Nuke Technology at HTSA.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh thank you, thank you for reminding me about that.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but anyways, yeah, so in my conversation with Tom, uh, which we'll be um we'll we'll be getting into soon.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I asked him with how Light of Palooza has like been growing in popularity.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just kind of asked him from like a marketing standpoint, how how does he kind of like promote the show?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And he was telling me that um a lot of it just like a lot of the people that end up attending the show just do so by word of mouth, which um, you know, it's it it's impressive to hear that.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And normally I would take that with a grain of salt, but like with talking to all of the integrators that I did at the show this year, so many of them were first-time attendees.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And when I asked them, you know, like what made them want to attend, how did this show come up on their radar?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: They just said their manufacturer reps kept telling them it's like you gotta go to Liapalooza, you gotta go to Liapalooza.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: So the uh the reps are doing work with you know getting people to this show, and um, you know, for that matter, everybody that was attending the show as a first timer, they were they were pumped, they were they were super excited.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to imagine they're gonna go out and tell their buddies about the show, right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, let's talk about some cool stuff you saw.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you know, what stood out to you?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, anything feel genuinely new?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, what what let's talk about what cool stuff did you see?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let's let's cut the BS.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what was cool?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Cut the BS.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, let me think about like some of the the new stuff because um there were there were a lot of cool things.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: So Lumen Truss was a new exhibitor this year.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: I stopped by them because uh as the name implies, uh a lot of their stuff is just fitting um fitting lighting into like architectural trusses.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought that would be a really cool function for integrators.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of why I wanted to stop by there, check them out.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what they ended up having was this really crazy cool system for tape lighting, where you can just make whatever connections you want, and it does not require any soldering in order to fully connect them.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they just have a very simple connector.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: You cut your lengths of tape lighting, fit both ends into a connector, and then all you need to do is just crimp it, and that crimping action provides a connection that allows the two connected pieces to operate as a single unit with like power running through them.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I thought that was really cool just because it, you know, minimized the amount of work that needed to be done when creating uh custom linear lighting strips in the field.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um that seemed really cool and very valuable to me.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there was another manufacturer by the name of Minimis that was at the show that was um, you know, uh there was there was a lot of there was a lot of attention being given to DMF lighting's um Artifacts One, like their their one inch aperture down light, um, which I'm not gonna take like any credit away from them.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: That is still a really cool product.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, in the in the realm of ultra tiny aperture fixtures, here's Minimus, and they had a lot of a lot of really cool um outdoor lighting, like really small aperture outdoor lights, um, that you can just stake in the ground.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but and this might not be for a lot of integrators, but it's a good design element, they had leaded crystal lights um that did something that I is really fascinating to me just from the standpoint of like um design thoughtfulness.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's let it they're leaded crystal lights, but the intent is that you know they provide illumination when they're turned on, but because of the way the crystals are structured, when you turn them off and natural sunlight hits them, you get these gorgeous rainbow more mosaic patterns from the light hitting the crystal.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that's supposed to be like its own intentional design element in places, which I thought was really cool there.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um on the technology side, um, Savant was day uh savant was kind of like showcasing, you know, the capabilities they had with their uh new AI that they're you know baking into their um control platform.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: That was really cool.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was told that it's kind of like still in alpha, but they still kind of want to be showcasing it to integrators just to be able to get feedback on that.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, if you happen to have a chance, um savant at a show that you're at and you want to stop by and see what they got cooking, um, you know, it's it's really interesting to see how AI is being implemented across the control platforms.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think a lot of what savant is doing is um, you know, pretty pretty cool in that regard.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then the the the other technology, I know I'm rambling at this point, but the other technology that I had that I saw at the show that I thought was really interesting just in the scope of like where lighting could potentially be heading, um, is Vantage was showcasing, I don't think it's fully released yet, but they're showcasing some models of lights that run on mesh networking for communication.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the big deal with that is that Lutron, um, specifically Ketra, that's how their lights operate.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: They kind of form once you install them, they inform uh they form mesh networks in order to be able to communicate with one another.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, helps the helps kind of bring uniformity to the control, and it also makes it so that there's no single point of failure with the lights should anything go wrong, um, which I think is really big.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you have that kind of technology being used in Ketra, and the only other um light um light, uh the only other lighting fixtures from a big manufacturer I've seen that have really kind of like leaned into mesh networking uh for performance is um Hue Lights from Philip.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: But like obviously those are kind of more consumer grade lights.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it but it's interesting that that technology, despite it being like so such a strong performer and making such a strong use case in the realm of like lighting, um, it's interesting that like so few manufacturers uh really lean into that tech uh that technology.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh when I saw Vantage doing it, I was like, oh, this is gonna be really cool.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to see this in action.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: You had a chat with Tom at um Light Up Luza.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: So why don't we uh get into that?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um what did you guys talk about?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we talked about I'm trying to think about it now because it's uh like trade show brain, man.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I I forget a lot of the minutia a lot of the time.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but uh no, when I was when I was sitting down chatting with Tom, uh I had quite a few questions about just like um, you know, considering he runs the show, um, he gets to see like a lot of the trends as they're forming.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I was curious about what he's seeing for trends in lighting, trends in energy, um, kind of baseline top-level stuff.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I was also very curious just to see like the overall uh health and planning of the show.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I I have only been in the custom integration space for five years, um, which is uh a baby compared to some of the veterans here.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I wasn't I didn't necessarily get to experience the um the growth of custom integration as a whole into the industry that it is today, but with something like Light of Palooza, where I've been covering it um pretty much since its inception.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's it's exciting to see that category grow.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And um in talking with Tom, he's always described it as kind of the formative days of when Cydia Expo first became a thing.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I I get exactly what he's saying with that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's very it's very exciting to be a part of like uh Light of Palooza, it's very exciting to be like um within this like formative community um that is growing around it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: All right, well, let's uh let's hear from uh from Tom.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um all right, and now now here's Tom Doherty.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, it's Nick Bover from CE Pro.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here with Tom Daugherty at Lightapalooza, and we're here to talk a little bit about the show today.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me, Nick.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Good to see you this morning.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Good to see you.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Glad you could make the time in your probably very busy schedule.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Happy to do it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Happy to do it.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I think uh kicking things off, um, one of the things that I wanted to talk about was just um, you know, you you probably get to see like a lot of the trends in the lighting space unfold as you're setting up these shows and kind of like running these shows.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: So what are what are some of the trends that you've been noticing at the show this year for 2026?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, there's an increase of um efforts by the lighting manufacturers to create more interoperability with their fixtures with the control solutions.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely um we're on our way for the intelligence being inside the fixture.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um which uh you know intelligent lighting and the ability to uh at lower price points uh uh enjoy tunable uh capabilities, which is um, you know, customers or clients aren't really as aware of why they should have that.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the integrators um understand it and have known about it, but it's been more of the higher cost price point and something not able to be um, you know, can be shown to uh homeowners, uh, their clients.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but now we're seeing that this is more and more possible on a broader range of projects.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so um that is that's encouraging.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're seeing on the show floor, um you know, it's it's a pretty interesting community here.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like the earliest days of CD where manufacturers, you know, did compete with it one another, but there was this kind of community where, you know, there's respect and uh there's a recognition that um having everybody's stuff work with everybody's stuff is a positive thing.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so um that's that's kind of what I'm uh noticing and encouraging.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: I did I did notice that uh talking about kind of like the the tunability aspect and uh the tunability at a more affordable price point.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I noticed that um Savant had that as um a part a big part of their messaging when I visited their booth with the uh the Perseo line, which they've been building out.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: And um if if um anybody who isn't at the show, uh they have a new set of uh recessed lights coming in soon.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, they've they've got a great presence here on the floor.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the savant's primary uh presence um when they uh joined uh our show floor was uh the power element, and we can talk about more about that um at some point in our interview here.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yes, they've uh pulled out you know all the stops and um you know that lineup I think was first kind of introduced uh here last year, but it's it's filled out and the message is uh much more um heard.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's really grown a lot.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um one of the other things, I don't know if you've no if you've noticed it, but um I've heard a lot of talk about dim-to-warm technology while at the show.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um a lot of manufacturers have kind of been like um hyping that up as like, you know, a new capability for their products.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um I've in asking them about it, they've also talked about how um a lot of designers and a lot of integrators um have said their clients are starting to get like a lot more interested in that dim-to-warm function for the lights.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, I guess that's surprising to me because it's been a kind of a common, at least for the primary manufacturers that have been at Lidapalooza, maybe it's much more broad amongst the you know the broader market, but within the custom integration channel and the people that have attended Lidapalooza, uh a dim to warm solution um has been um you know available from you know all the vendors that we have had here on the floor.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um now it is a uh highly requested feature.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of integrators prefer not to deliver a complete static uh solution.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and definitely the dim to warm product performance has gotten you know ever better.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh and so yeah, I I kind of uh that's been my observation, been providing dim to warm, you know, for a long time.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I wonder if it's just something that like maybe it got missed in the conversations with the uh the clients initially, um, kind of like what we were we were talking about with um just you know kind of educating clients on yeah you know the value of tunable white.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if that was just something that kind of fell under the radar for a while.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it might have been.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: It also might have been where you know these manufacturers are recognizing that that's a desirable feature, and so that's what they're talking about, that's what they're bringing up.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's fair.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you how do you see the market changing its approach to business in 2026?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like nowadays, um, most integrators know that lighting makes money.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we've we've been talking about it on CE pro for a while, and um, this show has been shouting it from the rooftops for a while as well.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I remember um back in 2025, I think I was sitting in with um on one of Peter's courses.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um there was a a comment that um, you know, we as uh you know custom integrate, I say we, I'm not a custom integrator, but uh I know what you mean.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but uh as the custom integration industry, um, they were starting to metaphorically poke the bear, where we were kind of starting to like get in on um businesses that had usually been handled by, you know, designers, architects, electricians for the longest time.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, do you see that still continuing to happen?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see that kind of dynamic changing?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it all I guess it all depends uh on the various segments of the market.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the custom integration channels is very broad in terms of the projects that um integrators are on and and price points that they're involved in.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some integrators do a lot of work with uh production homes and such, and um, you know, there's probably more poke the bear areas there.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but in the high-end portion, and really at light of Palooza, the people that attend this event are the most progressive integrators in the space.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so, really, kind of the top of the pyramid.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: So the most advanced integrators working on the highest end projects.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um so there was absolutely some resistance earlier on, but it's more and more understood, especially with the technology inside the fixture.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the integrator is uh best positioned to provide those sort of things.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Frankly, architects um don't know much about lighting and don't really interfere too much about that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the friction would be, you know, from electricians going, well, wait a second, I'm always sourcing that and and placing that.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um interior designers' impact on lighting is very minimal.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just primarily on the decorative selection.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So on the architectural side, recess lighting, uh accent lighting for art and things like that.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um honestly, uh the lighting designer, if there, if there is a professional lighting designer on a project, um, you know, they would have that impact.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, clearly there's coordination with the interior designer so that there's understanding as to what their intent is.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it's rare for an interior designer to have any lighting design chops.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so the integrator has really increased the uh awareness of what's possible because for the most part, the industry is four cans and four cans in a fan.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so the integrator has invested in um the knowledge to have the narrative, and they've um uh uh refresh their showroom so they can demonstrate lighting in ways that customers and interior designers and architects have not seen.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so this channel, the top, the high, the people that come here are having that impact.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um as you go down um the pyramid of integrators, um, yeah, the you know, a lot of the industry is not doing lighting.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's really the progressive, uh, advanced ones that operate in a higher uh tier of uh custom integration.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that um uh David Worfle was talking about that a lot uh during his keynote the other day, um where he specifically brought up the whole uh Atlantic article talking about how smart homes suck and how um it's you know it's it's on it's on a lot of the integrators to kind of like educate themselves a little bit more so that we can, you know, further build up this industry so that articles like that um don't really happen.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you you know, I don't think you can control uh people that want to make general statements.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not I'm not saying that it's like I'm not saying that there weren't some uh not everybody's a journalist at your level that does read versions that takes multiple sources, Nick.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: But but yeah, it was a it was a well point what's funny about it is um you know for you know a decade or more ago, um that was a common site when people would put in sophisticated lighting controls and the buttons weren't labeled.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: But amongst you know top integrators, that that doesn't happen anymore.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was common for post-it notes to be on the keypad um uh for, you know, hey client, get used to this and tell us if you like this kind of thing.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the top integrators have been proactive in getting uh the button design and the engraving to happen.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this journalist must have just been in a house that uh wasn't done by you know uh less than one percent of the integrators out there and and felt that you know you have to have shock journalism to get clicks these days.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so so funny thing, um the the guy that wrote this was actually um a tech CEO um specifically for uh Basecamp.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you know, the tech CEOs um don't necessarily you know they can be in houses that are done poorly and then have that same sort of oppression.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I I heard all that and I I just like okay, um you know, can we I I can we get to the like the modern age or yeah I just okay uh you know he can be a tech CEO, but not necessarily I don't know.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought it was odd.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I thought it was a very good I mean the reality is that that article ran.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that reality was that that person's experience.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, and um that reality is that people read it.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um, you know, uh it you know, it it it takes like 20, I don't know what the ratio is, 20 positive things to be said, but only one negative thing, and that just wipes everything out.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: David put it best where it's like that one article probably cost everybody in the room like millions of dollars on prospective clients and sales.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it was it, it was I'm I was glad he did it and and he anchored it well.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, no, it was a very good discussion.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I guess kind of like owning that conversation, and this this got me thinking just like during our conversation right now, um, you know, with education, obviously with like a lot of integrators, um, it just in like in businesses in general, you're gonna get the guys that are always just going to be like, I'm just here to like get my stuff installed and move on to the next project.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that that's always going to exist in like any industry, I feel.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um for for you guys, you were talking about how it's like, you know, the guys that come to Light of Palooza, um, top of the line, like, you know, the innovators that are pushing the category forward.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is there is there any interest on your part or efforts being done on your part to kind of like um reach out more so that like maybe you're not reaching out to the guys that are just going to be, you know, I'm just here to do my job and then leave, but maybe more kind of like middle of the road where it's like, you know, they if they knew about it, they'd be interested, but they don't necessarily know about the event yet.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, the the the the word of mouth uh and the brand recognition and the consistent just positivity for people that are here and and communicating that, you know, the evidence of that is just the in continued increase of of education registration and the hours that are consumed and the number of manufacturers that want to be here.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we uh you know we we the the manufacturers and their reps communicate to everybody in their channel.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and so we do have people that are not yet in it and understand they want to be in it and know that they're starting from step one.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I people pull me aside, yeah, this is my second one.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh we just took the shine lighting fundamentals.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I sat through Dennis Jake's project management course.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: I understand there's a handbook here.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me, you know, uh about this and what's in it and what I can learn?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we've seen a progression of people that have come in green uh and that, you know, following gears, they're they're getting it and they're being effective at it.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, it it's a challenge in general.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's people have limited bandwidth, yeah, and the industry is screaming for them to attend, you know, way more stuff than people can.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh I know the travel budgets for everybody.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: The travel budgets and and also the world's change, you know.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can get so much information just at your desk, yep.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, through digital media, and uh the other thing is a lot of people belong to one of the groups, and so the groups have conferences and the groups have community, and there's a lot of information sharing within peers.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we have to continue to um innovate and uh come up with compelling reasons, reasons to come.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: But everybody that's here, I'm not just hyping this, but I mean everybody who's here is pretty smiley and jolly and excited.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'd agree.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: I would I I would agree with you on that.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And talking to like what you were just saying about like the manufacturers' reps, I think um most of the people that are like on the integration side that I have run into, um, they're a lot of them are first years, and they were saying that they either got uh recommended by somebody else in the industry, like another uh integrator who had been to the show, um, or their manufacturer just told them that it's like, hey, if you're interested in this sort of stuff, there's an entire show for it that you should be at.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's yeah, so it's it's getting it done.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, all we can do is uh shout from the towers and the hillsides and hope that people take advantage of it.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, do you see integrators leading with lighting as being the an ideal strategy for both relationship building and project scaling?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's something that I've heard talked about a lot at the show.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know, like, you know, it gets you in the door with um lighting designers and builders and all those guys uh first, I've heard from from integrators.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, but more recently I've been hearing integrators talk about, you know, when they lead with lighting, you know, it's getting them in the door first, and then from lighting, they're able to be like, well, you got a nice uh entertainment space over here.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Would you like to have like, you know, a uh TV added, a nice sound system added?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Would you like to have all of that connected onto like a platform?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do you see that uh occurring more among members?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's been our strategy.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I joined HTSA, uh, my full-time job as director of new technology for HTSA, and my evenings and weekends are planning and producing uh Lidopalooza.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I joined in 2017.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, you know by and large, integrators were not providing lighting fixtures on projects.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my specific, you know, um communication at the time to the industry and particularly to our HTSA integrator members, was that the reason to do lighting is it it it because I've experienced it, I was an integrator, and that was my strategy starting in 2008, was to uh educate people on and have them experience uh what l good lighting and intentional lighting could do.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I experienced you know, people whose awareness um uh was just uh um the reaction was such no one's ever shown that to me.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Of course I want that.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and then as we you know completed more and more projects and more and more of their friends and the builder observed, wow, my house is looks different than four cans in a fan.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then soon builders were contacting me and saying, hey, we've got a new project.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it used if I could tell you a story really quickly.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the earliest days of custom installation, right?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, CD was found in 89.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: I started my business in 1985, and when I was doing that, um I got hooked up with Custom Builder, and they said, Hey, you know, we've got a client that would like music in multiple rooms, and now here you can have speakers that can go on the wall and you can run wires.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Yes.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, when do you need me?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're gonna sheet rock in about three days.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can you run out there and pull the wires?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, and so that's what it was.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then later on, uh few years later, as home theater was really starting to take off.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Builder would say, Hey, I've got another project.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, great.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need me to like wire it tomorrow?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no, no.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: They want a home theater.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know what the dimensions need to be, and we don't know how deep or the size, we're excavating.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't even dug the hole yet.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we need your feedback, Tom, to help design and spec so that this theater is what these people have imagined.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so for there was a good long time where we were uh brought in by builders into projects before framing it started and so on and so forth.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Over time, as builders and homeowners became aware of smart home and music everywhere, they kind of became numb to it again.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was like, um, hey, what I don't you have a project?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: I saw that you're framing this house.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: When are we gonna meet that client?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna get to you, but right now they're looking at kitchen cabinets and appliances, and they're interested in fabrics and so on and so forth.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it became um all of a sudden, you know, not important.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And as last minute, yeah, we're gonna get to it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna talk to a number of other integrators, they're gonna get multiple bids.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: The market changed, it evolved.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I started doing lighting, I was the only one doing it, and the builder and the architect.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Particularly, the builder appreciated have a lighting plan in advance of the electrical bid and the electrical work.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because typically what happens, and these listeners that are integrators know this, most lighting and most stuff figured out is during a walkthrough.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: The house is framed, and you're walking through with the client and then the builder and the electrician, and you're spray canning and marking studs and on the floor where stuff is going.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we started showing up with a complete detailed plan, you know, our walkthroughs were super short.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Walkthroughs could take all day.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: And now they're taking like a review in a conference room.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Here's where this stuff is going.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Then you walk the site and you go, yeah, that all works.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: See you later.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the you know, providing lighting design, and then essentially the client and everybody sees what you can do from your showroom demonstration.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get called and say, hey, we're putting the team together.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: The architect, the interior designer, the kitchen designer, um, you know, the contractor are all meeting.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to start talking through this project.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're on the team at the beginning, and the lighting process requires multiple meetings and discussions and coordination.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens is that um you are able to establish trust.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden, everybody recognizes that you know what you're talking about, you're all, you know, working together, and um the client gets comfortable with you, and now it's time, hey, um, where are the televisions going?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you want music?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: What about security cameras?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: The network, you know, you're able to have these other conversations.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: They've already hired you, you're on the job, and they're not going out and talking to multiple A V contractors to do the rest of the work.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, the whole communication and case that I made of why the heck would you sell and provide fixtures was because it gets you in the job early.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And once you're there, you're able to provide all the rest of the stuff that you're expert at.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that has been has been experienced by our group for a very long time.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so by 2022, when we were launching Light of Palooza, more and more people outside of our group were hearing that.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: And to a man, to a woman, everybody's experienced exactly that.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so the reason to get into lighting is not necessarily that there's some additional revenue or there's some profit up additional profit dollars.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's so that you can differentiate yourself amongst the dozens and dozens of other people in your market that aren't doing it, establish yourself as the leader and the expert in it, and get brought into the conversation at the very beginning.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is the primary reason.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Trojan horse.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good way of putting it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see, do you see the same thing uh do you see like power as providing kind of like a very similar value to an integrator's business?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've heard plenty of people, I've heard people at this show not only talk about doing a very similar thing with power, but I've also heard of integrators uh considering even kind of starting up their own in-house uh electrical business, break even on the electrical services just so they're able to get in, have that initial conversation with everybody in the beginning, and then they're able to kind of you know uh showcase their expertise, but they use that electrical business as the initial entry point.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you so there's maybe two answers to that.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um one, uh, yes, more and more integrators are somehow able to provide some sort of electrical services.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Either A, they have acquired an electrical company or they've merged with an electrical contractor, or they have developed a closed relationship where you know they're two separate companies, but they you know kind of go in and bid and propose and do the project together.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's easier said than done, all of that.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but with you know, absolutely that is a trend, and that gives, you know, companies that can do that um some real strengths, but it's a big lift.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's a completely different business than integration.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the margins, the process, the pay strip, how you're paid, all of that is just much different.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, however, you know, talking about power, yep.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I could it for me, power has the same sort of opportunity in terms of getting in earlier, being brought in earlier in the project, and and possibly probably being able to be brought into the project way before everything.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could be brought into a project before the general contractor or the builder is contracted with.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you the the uh the idea here, and that's why we added this to Light of Palooza, is we've added education, and in fact, this year we did add a power fundamental shine course for our course that we've been delivering twice.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, much like lighting, power, if integrators can really learn the narrative and speak confidently on a project.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when the idea of a generator is brought up, they can speak the speak, they can communicate what their equipment needs are and intelligently know the KW and have the same sort of uh dialogue that the electrician is.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and often, often the electrician relies on a third party, a generator salesman to help size the stuff.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the integrator, if they're knowledgeable enough, they can uh get ahead of all this and do the calculations on the appliances and the HVAC and kind of know what is needed battery-wise, generator-wise, so on and so forth.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so I think it's important to know that.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that the awareness can be increased amongst customers, and if they could hear it from somebody that's knowledgeable and confident that they trust, they will, it'll make sense for them to have more and more load shedding capabilities, smart panels, uh batteries, uh, so on and so forth.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if they get good enough at it where their documentation is such, um, there'll be developers and architects that are working with clients that are looking at raw ground.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if an integrator can come in and understand the utility uh uh and and and all of that, that they can plan a lot of the basic infrastructure, uh they can be brought in as a consultant prior to the GC.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: They can get in the earliest.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we have members in our group that do exactly that.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: Not many, but we have some that are literally brought into projects before anybody's brought in.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then at that point, you know, that integrator that can, yes, we'll we'll do the lighting plan, we'll do the AVA, we'll do the complete technology infrastructure.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's what Lightapalooza is about, about what's next.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um the power area is uh early days.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I always learned uh long, long ago that you're never wrong, you're only early with technology.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: And Joe, you know, Piccarilli and the people at Rosewater have been, you know, pounding this drum for well over a decade plus, and um it's proving out correctly.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we have a uh a complete, you know, we have kind of an area of the show floor that has just all power uh suppliers clustered.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's funny that you mentioned Joe, because I was talking with him um yesterday during the show, and um it kind of leads into another question that I had where, you know, um obviously Joe was talking about it from a power standpoint, but I was surprised to hear him mention it from a power standpoint because I wasn't figuring because um I'll I'll just ask the question before I get too much into it.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, considering where power or where lighting sits and considerations of technology and design, um, have you how have you seen this fostering more conversations around the topic of like integrated design, you know, combining with that design and technology into one?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason I brought that up was because when I was talking to Joe, he was mentioning how he's getting reached out to now by designers, um, specifically over on like the K Biz size, which is happening as we speak, um, to come in and talk to them about power, because you have all these interior designers, they're recommending these appliances that are ultra high tech, have very sensitive electronic computers in there.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: He was telling me that like a wolf cooktop nowadays has an entire set of instructions for rebooting it if it gets um shut off.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um designers are becoming more aware of technology now.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: I've already seen that happening with lighting in general.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of lighting designers are getting into, you know, they're becoming more aware of the value of control technology and being able to like alter lighting and all that stuff.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do you just see like what's happening at Lighterpalooza as kind of driving that conversation among designers more?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I hadn't thought about it like that.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, um the integrator uh capabilities of understanding all the technology.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I remember, you know, especially during COVID, you know, our our dishwasher stopped working, and it was because of the control panel.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't motors or all this other stuff.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then that control panel, you know, parts were super difficult to get.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it was clear that it was a power situation that zapped the board inside there.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see, especially, yes, the advanced, you know, Wolf stove uh having reboot instructions, that that is something that, you know, interior designers are speculating, you know, the appliances or such, or they're connecting them with a kitchen designer, and now they've kind of been on the wrong side of uh wow, this thing failed here, and and they got responsibility to their clients, and that it's important for them to understand, you know, how to you know avoid those things and mitigate those things.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess uh it's just another opportunity for the integrator to do the education.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the interior designer really doesn't know where to go get that, and and really they have um they have limited bandwidth, they've got to focus on what is within their lane.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that uh what I'd like to see is more and more manufacturers recognizing that the integrator is truly the specifier of all the technology.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're the connection with the client, and that, yes, it's important to reach out to the design community, but I think the manufacturer should be communicating that um how to vet or understand or select or know that the integrator on your job is the right one, not for interior designers to start to speak about what products technology should be used.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because much like an integrator shouldn't say, well, you know, I went to the kitchen and bath show, I was at the builder show.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I like these growy plumbing fixtures better than the waterworks that your interior design is recommending, you know, and that's the whole thing.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be silly for integrators to start to have conversations about knowledge about floor finishes and paint colors or paint brands, and and I think that's the worry that I have is that the some manufacturers think that you know, exposing them to their technology uh and having them armed with some capability, have a custom a conversation with the client is absolutely the wrong thing that's going on.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's my strong opinion.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: The tech the integrator is the one that has a relationship with the client.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: The integrator is with the client at the beginning and through the job and beyond servicing it, upgrading it, and so on and so forth.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: The interior designer just does the job and they're gone.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're rarely continue to be involved with the customer.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so the and the the integrator now provides every category of technology.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the size and scope of our projects are typically a much larger bill than what the interior designer brings to the project in terms of cost and impact.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're kind of getting close to what the builder is doing.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we are, and as a general contractor, if you're building a house, you know, you're subbing out to dozens and dozens of trades.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the technology uh integrators' bill or value of their project is greater than any one single uh deliverer.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're more our clients spend more than they do on the framing package, more than on the plumbing contract, more than on the electrical.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we're doing, you know, that's that's the direction I think our industry needs to go.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: We need a better position as to that, we're a technology general GC.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the client needs to be as careful about hiring the right technology general contractor as they do the general contractor on their on their house build.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think the guys that um I was talking to at Sara and um uh I want to say Bravas had also done this, but the guys at Sara had mentioned that um, you know, we need to instead of calling ourselves uh instead of calling themselves uh integrators, it's like they should be calling themselves like technology designers because that's generally what they're doing in a lot of cases.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I'm pretty sure it's Bravas, they specifically are um positioning themselves as technology designers to trade partners now.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I saw they I saw their somebody showed me their kind of lookbook.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was very impressive.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I thought that their messaging was really good, actually.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I was impressed by it.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's interesting too because we've been doing um we've been doing a lot of this on CE pro just talking about um how integrators um just kind of really focusing on the the relationship between integrators and designers and like developing those and developing those like conversational skills between the two because I feel as though there is still a communications gap between the two sides in a lot of cases.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I think the gap is primarily as you go lower down in the pyramid.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that you know we're making kind of a general statement when we say that, right?
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, when you look at the integration, if you look at integrators, it there's a wide, there's a lot of them, and they occupy in different stratospheres, if you will.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um there absolutely is a large segment of integrators that would benefit from uh enhancing their skills uh or better understanding how to communicate and bring value to the conversation.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: But myself and the integrators that I know have had conversations and have worked with interior designers and architects for three and a half decades.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't need any help knowing how to talk to an interior designer or an or an architect or a custom builder.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the majority of the people here at Lidapalooza know that, work with interior designers every single day, get phone calls from interior designers, are brought into jobs by architects.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and that's the thing, is most of what's happening at the most of the high-end stuff, you know, some of these lighting fixtures and lighting control packages, you know, are six figures.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the people that are putting in these six-figure jobs are on jobs where they know how to talk to the interior designer.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but yes, a big swath of the industry um uh could use that skill set.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: But none of my HTSA members and probably nobody in ProSource and nobody in ASION needs any help knowing how to have a conversation and bring value to an architect or an interior designer.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it might it might be worth a conversation for another time because Bob, we still have like a bit of a ways to go, and I don't want to hold you up for too long.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I I was gonna say um it is interesting because I know talking to um people from um ASION and OASIS, um, there is there is kind of that sentiment that it's like um when you're working on these types of projects, because you brought up like how how how much how big a project can get when you're like you're incorporating lighting controls.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: It makes me wonder if um if it's associated, like this um lack of a skill set for lack of a better word, in like being able to communicate with designers is associated all with this um seeming wall that comes up when you're an integrator just starting out and you're like trying to move beyond like a million dollars in revenue.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like talking to a lot of um the buying groups, there is that sensation that you know once an integrator steps beyond making like a million dollars a year in revenue, there becomes a lot of challenges that are that can very easily tank a business.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there that is correct.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it that's a that's a first threshold to pass.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, clearly, you know, we're talking about people that might only have been in business for a couple of years and they started off with a a friend or a couple people, they're three people, and and you know, getting to 10 to 20 to 30 to 50 is uh is a long arch and takes uh uh a lot.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and yes, uh a lot of that's why, you know, people like Matt Burnath and and others, you know, uh there's great demand for, you know, how do I structure my business?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: How do I understand my balance sheet?
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do I manage customer deposits so that, you know, the uh do I have money until I run out of checks?
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so that's you know, that's part of it.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: I guess, you know, I do understand that and I'm aware of all that, but yeah, you know, um with HTSA, uh uh, you know, all of our members are at the top end and have been in business for a long time.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh so that's usually not on my worry list to be thinking about uh that part of the industry.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, but it's it is a real thing.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um getting back into talking about Light of Palooza, um, so we just over at CE Pro released our power deep dive.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, we surveyed a bunch of integrators talking about like their power business, still in its early stages.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, obviously we we still have a lot to go when it comes to like gathering information on how everybody is doing.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but in the survey that we gave our readers, um, the one of the one of the elements that stuck out was that 80% of them expected their energy-related business to grow over the next 12 months.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious, do you share that same level of confidence with them?
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I do.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's an awareness thing.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Consumers are more and more aware of power issues and brow problems.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: People want people want convenience and safety, so they want, you know, those sort of things to be mitigated.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the work between uh, you know, Apex and Surgex, and I don't want to leave anybody out, you know, future ready, on and on and on, uh, Rosewater, savant.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that messaging continues to be, you know, uh amplified and heard.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um more and more integrators are figuring out what their narrative is.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, it I think it's ever, I think that growth rate is uh, I don't have any quibble with that.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: And in that same survey, the the other thing that stuck out was that everybody was saying biggest barrier to getting into power and energy is the educational aspect.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you had already mentioned that like you guys had done a lot to expand uh power education at the show this year.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see Light of Palooza kind of turning into the same uh encompassing the same breadth of education for power that it does for lighting currently?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know one of the big things for lighting that you guys introduced and that I personally really love is the uh the academia series.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so yeah, baby steps.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we we brought on power um three conferences ago.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and so this year uh was the first time we've created a power.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we did two things.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um Light of Palooza created this power fundamentals uh four-hour course with uh with a certification exam for for fundamentals or you know, voltage, ohms, amps, formulas, kilowatt hours, how to evaluate the length of time the battery's gonna last for and the power is gonna be on uh based on the calculations of appliances, HVAC, AB RACs.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have a handbook that we produced.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh we we had nice attendance yesterday, and we're delivering it again tomorrow.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that we did is we um Angie Larson of Savant uh kind of helped take this leadership role of bringing together all of the quote unquote competitors or exhibitors that are here and developed a smart power education series.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yesterday we had a full day.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um it started off with a 90-minute fundamentals, and then they're followed by four uh one-hour sessions.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it was five and a half hours of power-related education that she with the other uh exhibitors in that area put together in an agnostic uh course.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was well attended.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: They had a nice reception afterwards on the show floor, and um and so okay, so we we did that.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there'll be other things by those groups throughout the course of the year, um whether or not we need to have I would think we need to have, you know, the next tier or more advanced power education.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess I don't know that I I necessarily will bring in academia.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: I might I don't know there's academia for electrical.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: I feel I feel like lighting kind of has like a lot more research going on in it currently.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now what we could do absolutely would bring in a professional engineer, you know, people that uh that create the MEP, uh mechanical, electrical plumbing um uh certificate uh stamps uh on on architectural drawings or on these higher-end projects where you have to have a a PE involved.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it may make maybe we'll be ready for that next year to have the fundamentals course for people that are new to it and and the ones that are kind of know it but want a higher level of it.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um we'll see.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, on that note, um, we've come to the final question.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I ask this every time, I feel, but I feel as as a show like this goes on more and more, it's kind of something that like you really can't escape, especially from like a lot of the attendees.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's next for Letapalooza?
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I'd love to answer that.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the the the thing that we do every year, and we'll do again this year, is we survey.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so we sent out, you know, about 1,500 surveys last year, and we got about 300 back, and people take the time and we we send out to three different groups the the manufacturer exhibitors, we want to know what it is they think, we want to know what the reps think, and we want to know what the attendees think.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we essentially ask them the same questions and then a and then a couple that are unique.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we get back um those surveys, and people take the time to write out paragraphs of feedback, and with that, it has been shaping it from the beginning.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know, you know, that there's anything new like power was a kind of a pretty big thing.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what the one thing that we did this year last year we uh uh we added a fiber company.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So Clear Line was here last year, and people were like, okay, why are they here?
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is it because light goes through fiber?
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I'm not stretching it that like that.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I but but what the reason we did it was that uh large lighting control projects on large estates to reliably have things function, you should be interconnecting these buildings with fiber, a for the speed, but b for the reliability and the lightning hits and that sort of thing.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we did.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So this year we expanded a little bit more.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Part of what the reason why we added power was it it was the next thing, but it's also a foundational thing for integrators to have reliable lighting control, lighting fixtures, all of that.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: It that made I saw it as foundational.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what I also see as foundational, especially to make all this intelligent lighting to work well, is networking.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we allowed ubiquity, we allowed access networks, we have one vision here, and so we have some network companies.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I need to add audio and video to make these other systems work, uh, but I think you know, uh education around networking as it applies to intelligent lighting, um, you know, continuing to enhance uh the academia series.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the primary driver of this event, if you if you talk to integrators, and these rooms are packed with education, they're packed.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they uh they're like the the education here is amazing.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's the feedback.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we have to continue to do.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's next?
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: How can we continue to enhance that?
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: What can we do?
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: The Shine Um certification courses to add to that catalog, to expand that, uh, you know, perhaps CEUs to maintain those certifications.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot to do around that.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of the next technology that needs to be showcased here, I don't know that there's anything uh uh wanting of that.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I maybe I didn't give you uh a cool a cool sparkling answer there.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think we've hit I the we we've touched upon this in our state of the industry a little bit, but it's like I think we're we're kind of starting to hit that point in the industry where it's like we kind of know what we are, like we're starting to figure that out.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So the the time for like big, sparkly, like new developments is kind of coming to an end.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about like that gradual kind of like process improvement.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think owing to what you said, um, as far as the networking, letting those networking companies in and maybe doing like um and maybe exploring like um education opportunities for networking, um I think you're probably like spot on with that.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know that's not much coming from me telling you when like this is your whole job to kind of like do this sort of thing, but just uh talking to integrators, you know, I I get the feeling that um you know networking has become big for a lot of their projects.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think in some cases where I've looked at it, it kind of ranks out as being like probably second most important um piece of infrastructure on some of their projects.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you're I think you're spot on with uh introducing it at the show, and I think you're spot on at exploring the education because I think a lot of the there's a lot there's a a lot of hesitancy from um it's the same thing like power, where it's like everybody says it's like, yeah, I understand that networking is like super important, but it's like I don't really know how to like properly network.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_00: The uh and and and so I guess one other thing, the the other feedback that we get, and and we're doing some of it for the first time this year, um, is that you know, integrators, you know, want to train their people, um, obviously, and that's why they send them here, but they also through the course of the year send them to this manufacturer, that manufacturer, you know, this city, that's their this facility, that facility.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And through the course of the year, you know, it's expensive to be flying their employees all around to different manufacturers' places.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really looking at how can we bring true hands-on, can we, you know, bring the manufacturers' hands-on experiences that uh that happen in their facilities here.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so Prolux, as an example, uh went on the road and did, I don't know, a a dozen plus uh hands-on certification trainings, you know, all day um for their linear solutions.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so this year, they're treating Lytapalooza as like one of those stops.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, interesting.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So tomorrow, there's an all-day hands-on certification.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Crestron has done a similar thing.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I believe that we can set aside these training rooms and just get these manufacturers to pack a bunch of flight cases full of gear and roll in and and create a version of what they do in their own training spaces.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the the uh integrators would highly value knowing that uh, hey, I can attend two or three manufacturers' hands-on trainings and not just a sales pitch, not an hour overview, but you know, two hour, four-hour.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh today control four is doing their hands-on training every hour on the hour.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um upstairs in I think Zambezi is the space.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure, can't I can't remember, but um, they are taking advantage of hands-on.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So classroom is fine, slide decks are fine, technicians want hands-on.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we've got three specific hands-on sessions, and I think that uh we can get manufacturers with planning to really up their game and bring in a lot of gear and really set up, you know, workstations, yeah, and uh and do that.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd like I'd like to do that.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_02: That'd be that'd be that'd be cool, intense.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I'm looking forward to seeing that in the future.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'll I'll pull that off.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it was great getting a chance to sit down and talk with you again.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad that you were able to like make the time for this during um, you know, in the middle of the show.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm sure you're probably running ragged um between everything.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um people ask me that I'm like so calm.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, like the pr last year you do exude like a level of calm.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Last year I was like super nervous and and all uptight and whatever.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, maybe after this fifth one, uh, we like the facility, the the the facilities people, staff have been great to work with.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_00: The Sterling events is who uh has my back and and does so much of the the infrastructure and operational side.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I just was like everybody was asking me that, and I was like, well, I mean, the thing is baked.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there the classes are baked, show floor is baked, uh, there's nothing I can do.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, so I'm just gonna be calm and just whatever.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm you know, I'm I'm not on a uh, you know, a Xanax uh uh drip or anything like that.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just completely uh uh blissfully calm.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm good.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not running ragged at all.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's great to hear.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, again, thank you for taking the time to sit down.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was great chatting.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Nick.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_00: See you soon.