Latest / Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories / Building Trust in ABA Therapy with ABA Therapists Brittany Vecero and Jada Watkins

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Building Trust in ABA Therapy with ABA Therapists Brittany Vecero and Jada Watkins · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the latest episode of the Inchtones podcast. One of the things that I know I innately desire to do is always seek out a variety of different respite care helpers, clinicians, therapists that can act as childcare for me whether I'm on the road or traveling with the kids, which is really important to me as a mother. And I actually became a part of these two ladies world because I was seeking out childcare for Millie and Mac in a different town that's not my home. And the amazing part about this world and social media that gets such a bad rep is that you never know who will you will find when you ask for the support that you need. And today I have Brittany and Jada here they are two BCBA track clinical supervisees that work directly in an ABA school school in Pennsylvania. And as I've gotten to know them through just having them help me with ABA therapy and clinical care for my children, I realized that there's such a lack of knowledge within the parent community about why people choose to go into this career, spend their educational money to go into a career serving children. I'm so thankful for you to be here today. I'm just so thankful that you're people like you exist going into these careers because we need more of you. That would be ideal. I said a deep pain point for a lot of mothers and caregivers is who am I dropping my kid off to? Maybe one or both of you could answer what really makes you so happy to be in a role like, like a BCBA track therapist.
• 1:44
  Speaker B: You can relate to some of these things and you get such a deep connection when you spend so much three to four hours a day with a child that becomes almost like a family member to you. We, we love our clients. We would go above and beyond for them. So when we see them, when they get there, we're genuinely excited to see them. A lot of the times like we've spoken about aba, there is a production behind it and how things are run. A lot of times it is kind of behind the scenes stuff we thoroughly enjoy and get excited. So there is a deep connection and very deep relationship that is built and I know parents aren't there directly to see that, but we spent an immen and not a one on one time like we thoroughly love your children.
• 2:26
  Speaker A: It's going to snowball in ways that probably aren't the most productive for the actual development of a child who needs that extra support educationally. I've seen that, I've witnessed it I've experienced it with both of my kids and I think that we need more, maybe more discussion around that when children enter a center based situation that it's not so sterile because I can come across, I think the again the fear of even just that, that, that those three letters can put this like blanket of fear over, over our parents. That you know, having having introductions to therapists, even like a five to ten minute way before your child starts could really help the process and knowing that it's really love based too.
• 3:11
  Speaker B: Yes. So much. And I've had a few parents before and I know not all parents are necessarily aware this is an option and that's absolutely on our end as well to kind information out there. But I've had parents come in and shadow and it's amazing because they get to see this ongoing day what their child's routine is and how they interact with me. And I can also build a connection and a rapport with that parent, laugh and make jokes. Having those one on one chats make a huge difference in connecting with a parent and family. So I love when parents come in and they want to see and they want to make sure that this is good for their child. I think that's amazing.
• 3:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that there's a lot to be said. You know, it's. We live in a world where obviously you know, PTO or you know, personal time off from, from companies, it's. It's really difficult I know for a lot of parents with full time jobs to like take a full day for just these shadow things. And I, as someone who was a stay at home mom for so many years, that really was my full time job was to get into the school and to see the, to see Millie and Mac evolve and at the same time it still was such a pause to press and I think that children with you know, autism, apraxia, any sort of neurodiversity diagnoses that attend a center, it does constantly ask so much of the parents and I think that what I hear you saying is that it does, it will, it will give back to you in spades from about your comfort level with what your child is receiving not in your care on a day to day basis.
• 4:37
  Speaker B: Absolutely.
• 4:39
  Speaker A: Jada, what is something that you feel resonates deeply with you about parents that you do of the children that you work with? You had said before we jumped on and pressed record that you never expect a thank you but a thank you goes a long way.
• 4:54
  Speaker C: Yes. So I have one kid, I don't have favorites but he's definitely up there. After every session that I have with him, his parents are so thankful. They always say thank you for working with him, thank you for spending the time with him. And, yeah, I don't expect it one, because I enjoy it. It's fun. I tell them after every session. We've had so much fun today. And I honestly am very thankful that I've gotten the opportunity to work with the kids. I've gotten to build these relationships, and I do not have children right now, but I cannot wait for that time that I do. So I feel like when I go into work, these are my kids, and I get to see them grow and develop every day. And it's really, really fun, exciting, and rewarding. I can see that I'm really making a difference, which is the best feeling.
• 5:41
  Speaker A: You know, I always struggled with when the clinical director at. At Millie and Max School would say, all right, well, in January, we're switching teams, you know, and there's going to be a new one on one or therapist. And I remember, you know, all but everything but getting hives, right? To being like, here we go again. Like, we have so much change yet. The generalization, I know, was so positive for them, being able to work with so many different. Different adults. Right? You know, how do you feel like you handle working with a ton of different children, right? Because I hear, and I can. It's palpable that your desire to love and affect and teach is there. How do you handle the numbers and caseload that you have? Because I think it's like, it's daunting as a parent to go, okay, well, they just wrote off this kid. My child's so very different. How are they going to adapt and evolve to that? They also see someone else in the afternoon. Like, how do you hold all that? How do you, as therapist, hold all that?
• 6:37
  Speaker B: So it can be really tough. I will say, thankfully, right now, I'm lucky in the sense that I see the same three kids every day back to back. So my schedule, thankfully, which is not always the case by any means, has been consistent. But there's times whenever those switches happen, and a lot of times you'll see that, like January, summer, those big transitions during the school year, sometimes it's. And I understand generalization, that is important, but same for us. We need to work on working with other kids, too, because we get attached. That's really, really, really hard for us because you build this relationship and you learn to know this child and see their ways of communicating. Like the back of your Hand and you get so comfortable and feel so solid in your position and role in their. What they're receiving with us. And when that switches, it's almost like starting a new job. Yeah, there's goes into it and pairing can take weeks.
• 7:30
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 7:31
  Speaker B: Really hard transition for both parties, especially the children and families. But with us that's really, really hard transition for us as well. We feel really deeply.
• 7:40
  Speaker A: What do you think? I talk with a lot of centers and do, you know, one on one sort of parent peer counseling. And I wonder like JD you're saying about the, the simplicity of a thank you, right. Like I'm someone that I, my personality is, is naturally leading with like gratitude for my children's teachers. I know that there are other things that can make that relationship with therapists grow. And I. When you sit in the expectations of a child developing and then a child that's at a special needs school, there is a lot in that gap sits a lot of, I mean like the word I keep using is like fear about what their child is not doing. What do you find is like a, A, a way to keep that relationship with parents and therapists, you know, in a, in a center based way as calm but also as positive. I know that there I've had so I can't even count the number of like, you know, reports you get and you get these, these rethink, you know, documents or state, you know, issued levels of things. And it can be so sad to constantly see your child at like no, we're at this. It's. They're supposed to be here and they're like here and they only went up to here right in six months. And when you sit down with a therapist and they're one on one and their clinical director and they by law have to go over that. But it is so ripe with emotion. You know, what are, what are some ways that you have found that you can share with parents but also with other therapists? That works really well in making sure that we know that we are just developing and leading with love to develop your child to become the best version they can be. Is there a way in which that you found that you put forth that information in a way that maybe lands softer for parents? It can be, it can be a daunting thing to receive so much low level information.
• 9:34
  Speaker C: I, at the end of every session I really try and focus on the positives even if it seems so small. It's not, I think keeping it positive, but also honest. Because parents, you guys, you know your child best, you know how things typically go. But I think just focusing on positives and the growth and even though there's some things that we're still working on, it is a process and it takes. It takes a little bit. Just focusing on there's growth every day, every hour of our session.
• 10:12
  Speaker B: It's so important to be able to be sympathetic, empathetic. The way in which you communicate this information is such a game changer. Your tone of voice, the things that you share. We've worked with therapists that we work on training that it's very. Oh, they did X, Y and Z. They. They hit me. They did this. And it's so like, can see it in all of the apologies that come out. I never want a parent to apologize. I think it's so important to be. They did this amazing thing because small inch zones, small steps are so important.
• 10:41
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:42
  Speaker B: But it's great to share. You know, they had a really hard time. This is why. But I always remind them, this is why we're here. Your child is absolutely not the only, only one to experience that and to remind them that is so important. Because your first response is, I'm so sorry. You know, I've had parents. I'm so sorry. Anytime they physically hurt you. No, no, no, no. Like, I applied to this job. I was told what would happen. I am choosing to be here and I understand. This is the way they communicate. I never ever look at this child and think, that is defiance. They are being bad. I look like. You have so many synapses sending out messages in your brain. This is overwhelming your fight or flight. I try to understand as much as I am capable. And I never want a parent to feel guilty or that I feel negatively. We are here. We want to help you get through this.
• 11:27
  Speaker A: Well, there's also, you know, there's a massive learning curve. You know, as some as you. You were both young women who chose to go into this as a career. And you know, when I was 30 years old, living in New York City and pregnant with Millie, I wasn't thinking about becoming a special needs parent. That. That wasn't like something that, that, that was even illuminated for me until she was born and here and I. And I think that it can create such a, such a. A positive learning experience for the parents. When a therapist shares, like you just said, Brittany, like, hey, listen, you don't have to apologize. These are the behaviors that I have learned about, that I'm constantly learning about. These are not negatives that. But I do, I personally believe that all behavior is Communic. One of the, it's one of the great, if not the greatest skill that I've learned and become in being a parent to non speaking autistic children is that they're telling you about them all the time. You and I are sitting right here. Even virtually, people could come in and observe us and talk about what their thoughts are and how we communicate and then think of, you know, be communicated to how we are as, as individuals too. So our children, you know, with profound autism are doing the same thing. It just is wildly different. And I think the ridding of that apologetic film and knowing that the therapist that you are dropping your children off to from the BCBA that are, that are leading this educational plan, they have in their best interest the knowledge that your child is trying their very, very best. They're absolutely trying their best. And I think that the more parents can hear from therapists that what you just said, no apology needed.
• 13:15
  Speaker B: No, not at all.
• 13:18
  Speaker A: Yes. And also it's all. I always say. It's everything's always yes and yes. Yes, this is hard. No, you don't need to apologize. And we are going to keep moving on this and figuring this out together. There is, I believe deeply in like the maternal instinct, but I also just think in general the ability to share that with the therapist and say, I don't see that at home. Why are we seeing it here? That, that, that part of the process too allows for, oh, maybe that will work differently in center than it does at home.
• 13:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And collaboration is so important. Um, and we learn quite a bit. We're supervisees under our BCBAs and a great part of this journey is learning what we want to do, what we would do differently. I feel like as we grow in this career, everyone has different styles. And me as a BCBA in the future, when I think of it, my goal is to not at all, you know, make your life like an in clinic 24 7. I want to work with the families, with what you need. How can we put these skills into the routine you already have? We want this to not be this huge stress added and all of these negatives. It's collaborative. We can provide support and be a behavioral support. But like parents know more, you know, like the humanity of your child, their quirks, the things that they're capable of in the fullest. So we want to work fully collaborate with you and we don't want it to be a negative thing. And if things are different at home and you feel as if it's for another reason, you Tell us. You tell me about that. And how can we work on this differently?
• 14:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's so many different. I always hope that different schools, I mean, my kids do here in New Jersey, but like all the different ways just to ping or just have a direct, you know, ability to communicate with the therapist that my children are working with. Not in a sense to like go into diatribes about like, you know, what I experienced over the weekend, but like a he thumbs, you know, heads up, not thumbs up. That's like an old school game from school. Heads up, thumbs. What is it? Heads down, thumbs up. That to be able to say, hey, this is what I've experienced this weekend. Just FYI, if you see that, if you see that behavior, you know, and getting used to that being a norm is again, like, there's so many things that parents of special needs children are just thrown into so deeply and it can feel like you're just walloped in like an atypical situation for education that you never anticipated. And I think that part of that, part of that is just like anything. Having the repetitions to feel comfortable sharing all those things that you see at home and knowing that at the end of the day they are little children behind that that are also growing and developing and literally physically, like their bodies are still physically growing. I always say, like, it's so hard to divorce like a little boy and a little girl from their autism when at the end of the day a little boy develops physically and mentally so differently than a little girl does. And so making sure that that humanity is addressed too, and not taking it all as seriously as I think that sometimes special needs parents, we. Our default is to take everything so seriously because we just want to get them, you know, learning and appropriate environments for them.
• 16:14
  Speaker C: Absolutely.
• 16:15
  Speaker B: And that's why I love the ascent based models that the kids are an active participant in this treatment, so are the parents. Trauma assumed care. We want this to be as good of a process as it can be. And of course, at the end of the day we're gonna have our big moments, you know, that's why we're here. We're gonna have tantrums, escalations. And another thing I like to explain to parents is I think it's a lot of questions like, how do the therapists react if my child hits them? Like, it's that fear of how. What does that patient's therapist has? And I always explain to parents the physical aspect. For me, my heart rate actually does not necessarily go up. I do not feel a sense of stress, tension, anger. I feel very calm and patient. And I always like to tell parents that they feel comfortable that your child is safe. I do not at all ever feel negative towards your child. And when we bounce back right after, we bounce right back to it, there's no fear at all. I'm down at their level. There is such a good positive relationship between.
• 17:11
  Speaker A: That's also something that parents, I think aside from doing parent training to learn about how your child learns, that without a doubt the example that you just said taught me so much about my own nervous system regulation through my therapy, through watching my child, children at therapy or at their center or in home, watching the therapist react to my children. You know, I probably had a much more sensitive reactionary, probably profile as a mother before learning that. Like, okay, controlling my nervous system reaction to their behavior is actually a choice of mine. And I think a lot of there it's it when it is your child like of your, of you, it is very difficult to calm those and to get. And. But that's, that's the same thing. It's a practice. It's like muscle memory, you know, just like anything else. The more you do it, the more you will have it be a default to do it the next time. And that, gosh, I wish, you know, in some ways that's a, that's a byproduct and a gift of center based ABA education is that the parents can actually get that training from a nervous system regulatory place of it's not your child. The little boy inside there is not seeking to injure and harm at all. We get to control the reaction to it and then mold the behavior through modeling and education.
• 18:35
  Speaker B: And I can't even think about it all the time from a parent's perspective and from the children's. I always acknowledge I cannot ever fully 100% understand. There is no way because I do not have an autistic child. I myself am not autistic. So I always try and remember that I do not fully understand until. Just really listen and be there for the parent as much as you can and take everything they say very, very serious with their feelings. And remember, we are trained to react a certain way. We get an immense amount of hours of training. As you said, not everyone wakes up and they're like, oh, I planned to have a speaking autistic child. We are trained for it. And I'm very thankful for that because I can't imagine having this, you know, thrown on your plate. Like, I don't, I don't know what to do so like I can't even imagine because this took years for me to get comfortable with some of these things that we're learning how to do. So props to all parents because they're amazing for doing this.
• 19:28
  Speaker A: So off of that something that just came to my mind and I'd love for you both to answer this. You know, what is one message that you know, you wish every parent knew about? I hate to say good aba right that when love and science can sit next to each other and work side by side because I, I, I get a lot of questions being like well what's your thoughts on aba? Well, I had a very positive experience with Millie and Mac and aba their, their preschool that they attended for both three, three and a half years each of them. It was a, it, it is a, an ABA preschool and yet when I think back upon their time there, it was absolutely love and science.
• 20:12
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 20:12
  Speaker A: So what, what, what do you, what do you wish every parent knew about what that, what good ABA looks like to rhythm of that anticipatory fear of what they've heard about when it comes to.
• 20:24
  Speaker B: I also want to acknowledge there are absolutely still ABA centers out there that participate unfortunately in unethical practices. And I think it's always important to acknowledge that. So it's important to research where you go. But the good places do exist where love and science coexist. And I think a lot of people have this idea that ABA is all about compliance which absolutely is in some places. But with a lot of parents we, they can request to not have compliance based training. If you know, a parent says I just want my child to be happy, how do we do that? It's not necessarily being quiet, not stimming. It's dignity, empowerment, having choices, autonomy, working on that communication, emotional safety, just access to a full life. So that trauma informed care, ascent based it is not always top priority to follow through emotions, response, expect dignity come first.
• 21:13
  Speaker A: Right? Well I think you say that about like, like you know, and again that's where I get think working with the parents that, and actually setting goals and having those whether it's just the you know, weekly or monthly parent training and observations. But, but actually you know even a 15 minute meeting once every quarter is not I, I do believe that we need to sometimes just take a deep breath and go. We can always do that. We can always come back together for like 10 to 15 minutes as parents with our, with the therapist. But I was thinking about a funny example. Millie must have had a somewhat, I guess of a, of a Rigid like lunch therapist during her first, first year of therapy and she still gets so mad when anyone tells her to slow down and chew because I'm sure that it was very compliance based. And I say that from. I can look back now going every child, I don't care whether they're on the spectrum and go to a special needs school or or are typically developing and go to a regular elementary school can remember a teacher that was more strict or more demanding or more compliance based than another one. And I laugh because I think that we have to sometimes take a collective deep breath. I'm like that's going to be different in a typical developing child in a school or someone that's at a special needs based preschool as well. You know, like we gotta, we have to be able to laugh about some of the, some of the things as well.
• 22:32
  Speaker B: And it's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be silly. My goal, none of my children know what ABA therapy is in this time. Since we're five and under. I don't want them to know they're at therapy. Want them to feel like going to a doctor's office. We are here, we are playing children's lead natural environment training. I am not one. We do not overly do a lot of sit down dtt. We like the natural environment. Like I said whenever I'm a future bcba I don't want to add on to the plate of parents. How can we work with the routine we already got? How can we work with what we already like to do? So there definitely is a trauma informed, wholesome way to attend to this. And I think it's so fabulous when ABA is done right with heart and it can make such big improvements and especially with bigger behaviors we talk about like elopement, safety concerns. Those things can be life changing. Some of these things you're talking unfortunately life and death. We have very, very serious behaviors. ABA is their last shot. So I think it's always important too. There is understandably the anti movement. It can be controversial but there are some parents that this is genuinely their, their last option.
• 23:41
  Speaker A: I love, I'm glad you brought that up because I tend to take a little bit of flack for saying like I do believe that the spectrum should be divided. I think there's a difference between a child who is verbal and on their way to independent living but needs deep support versus a child who like specifically my, my son Mac. I mean he truly will elope any chance he gets. And so the safety behind him learning max stop like is so vital literally to his life. Unless he is on a walk with me and I have his harness on and we're, you know, we're, I'm full, 100% there with him, that level. And I think the directive that ABA can provide in these very serious, life changing, you know, scares, that's where, that's where the positivity in it lies. Like this is very important and it still is. You know, Millie can walk to the end of the street and if I see her and I say, mels, stop, Millie, stop. I mean I can pretty much say she's going to stop and wait. Mac is not there yet, you know, and there's a patience that has to come along with that. But it is absolutely written into his goals every single time. And every therapist knows that.
• 24:55
  Speaker B: Of course we're seeking in whatever way we can. And we've had parents before. It's so hard because there's one side to where absolutely you want to share all that information and everyone be aware of what these negative things in ABA can look like. But also you've had parents. There's almost this guilt because you go on the Reddit thread or online and it's, you're a horrible parent. You're putting them in aba. So I was like to put that label on this group of people that are doing what they can, that's, that's horrible. That hurts. As a parent, you're doing what you can.
• 25:22
  Speaker A: And I think it's good that you, you suggested that get out to the centers, go do a tour. You know, it was difficult during COVID when I was looking for a school for Millie. You know, the virtual tours only show, show so much, but there we have to be able to get past what we just read about and actually engage. One of the biggest pillars of my advocacy work is, you know, interaction over isolation. And we need to take that from a I. Getting Mac and Millie out into the world is so important for me. But also as parents like interact with the potential school, interact with the potential clinical director, take the time. I know it is. It is absolutely exhaustive to go through the process of finding the right center based education. It will, it will be worth its weight in gold and pay it, pay you back in spades if you do so and do your due diligence on that and don't just rely on, yes. The keyboard warriors behind the screens that are, that are just angry that maybe they didn't have the same access that we have now.
• 26:21
  Speaker B: Absolutely. And like you said, parents work full time. It is extremely Difficult. And a lot of these children, their lives are filled with speech, ot, pt, aba, the schedules are immense. So we also understand like, it totally makes sense that parents are not always able to commit. It totally makes sense. If you can't stay with a long report, this is, it's exhausting. Their schedules are immensely filled up. So it takes a large tool. But like you said, it makes probably, at least from your perspective, a world of a difference. To answer those like, what's going on?
• 26:53
  Speaker A: It does. And I always say Millie and Mac have had full time jobs since they were two years old. You know, they've had full time jobs and you know, I don't care what their older sister says. I'm like, oh, their lives are a lot more rigorous and rigid than yours are. What would be one thing that you've noticed deeply that's translated in center to the home of the majority of students that you've worked with? You know, there's people are always looking for like, well, what's one thing that like I can implement at home that makes such a difference that, you know, my child does at school and can go into home. I know my, my example just to like set a set, the tone is simple routines like 1, 2, 3. When they get up in the morning, it's like, good morning, let's get you out of your jammies, let's change your pull up, get your clothes on and brush your teeth. And it's like this, it's like these three to four steps every day. What is a, what is maybe a routine or a task that you know and have seen translate beautifully from school to home, uh, day.
• 27:53
  Speaker C: There was like little things that maybe don't seem like too, too much, but I think they are like one of my kids, he is working on just taking his wrapper from the table and throwing it in the trash. Yes.
• 28:06
  Speaker A: No. That's huge.
• 28:07
  Speaker C: Yes. So doing that at home I think takes a little bit of stress off parents showing their independence, showing what they, what they can do. And maybe they're a little more relaxed at home because that's their comfort place. They are working these full time jobs, going to school, but still are able to pick up their trash, maybe clean up, put their plate in the sink, do things like that that are small but not so small to a parent.
• 28:34
  Speaker A: To pick one little thing like that. Yeah, like the wrapper, you know, putting your, put your, your water bottle by the sink. We've had to really get Millie. Millie loves to shed her, her outerwear and shoes like as she's Walking to the family room. So it's like this trail of like the jacket's off and the shoe, one shoe's in the kitchen, the other shoes almost to the bathroom and stopping her and just saying shoes off and in the bin. Shoes off in the bin. She's off in the bin. And it's just, it will take 30,000 times longer. But it is such a small thing that when I do see her even stop herself from like going farther into the kitchen or like you said, I'm sure you're the child that with the wrapper, like where's the wrapper go? You know, those small things can make like you said for a much more peaceful home environment.
• 29:23
  Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think going back to small things, even though everything's a big thing to us, like visuals make a world of a difference. The Premack principle first then makes a world of a difference. So I think these small little things you can implement that not everyone's aware of that. It's like, wow, that really Gosh.
• 29:40
  Speaker A: I mean I love first, then love first, Then I tell my too. Like first you work out, then you get to have breakfast. Okay, Sarah sauna. And your mental health's better. Right? Like it, it actually works.
• 29:53
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 29:54
  Speaker B: I think if we can see it.
• 29:55
  Speaker A: As less of like a rigid like teaching versus like mentally. This is how humans can get simply the most. The simplest way to get a behavior to change and to grow.
• 30:07
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 30:07
  Speaker A: First then man, that's the title of this episode.
• 30:10
  Speaker B: And I always like to step in the kids shoes. I. I always think parents, people involved step into their shoes and like with the skills they have. If I was a non speaking child, I haven't necessarily learned to read time and I'm involved with playing a game and you're all of a sudden clean up, we're all done. I would be really angry.
• 30:26
  Speaker A: I'd be really angry.
• 30:27
  Speaker B: Right.
• 30:28
  Speaker A: Like you just turned off the computer.
• 30:29
  Speaker B: I was like, what? Where did you go?
• 30:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:31
  Speaker B: Things like that. Think about where they're at in their shoes. Like that's really upsetting if you wear them. So just be in their shoes where they're at, meet them with the visuals. It's okay to add more things to help them throughout the day and pull back.
• 30:43
  Speaker A: I actually talk, I mean to companies about like neurodiversity. And one of the things I always say is that do not discount what looks like an accommodation for, for one as being helpful for all. Right. Like you might have, or someone might have an employee in a company that, that, that says hey you know, I've got adhd. I work really well in great little spurts, you know, when this is. Or. It'd be really helpful to have a visual agenda as well as the. The words come through, guess what ends up happening. It ends up helping everyone. And what looks like an accommodation ends up being support for the whole system. And so that's that. I hear that just. That was such a great example of it. Like, it is. It seems like it's a support for one and end up being the support for the whole.
• 31:28
  Speaker B: And so much further than just, you know, working with children, autistic children. I mean, they use this to run corporations, businesses, employee productivity. So we get paid a paycheck. That is ABA reinforcement. So it is so embedded in our daily lives. It does not have to be a big. Gary, you said it can help a whole group of people a lot.
• 31:47
  Speaker A: It really can. Well, Brittany and Jada, thank you so much for your time today. I think that parents need to hear more, as much as we can, from the actual practitioners, the actual therapists, the actual behaviorists that are doing this job day in and day out that have chosen to go in because I do believe the end of the day, most people are good. And most people that join into the special education system have a desire to really help these children become the best versions of who they are. And it's a pleasure having you both on the show today. And it's also just a pleasure to know you both in person and for what you do.
• 32:19
  Speaker B: Thank you so much. We love Millie.
• 32:22
  Speaker A: There's something. There's something. All right, you guys. Well, until next time on the Inch Zones podcast, thank you.