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Organized Abuse · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Well guys, I figure we are not the only ones in crisis this weekend so let's just talk about it. Name it to tame it they say. The elephant in the living room. Let's talk about it. To begin in a super safe way, let me clarify that I am recording this on the October.
• 1:26
  So those of you who don't wanna listen to anything about that should just skip this episode entirely. That is your trigger warning. I will use words for different things. I will talk about some of why it's hard in a very simple, simple way and do my very best to not trigger everybody out the wazoo. Okay?
• 1:48
  So if you can't handle any of that, just skip this episode. If it doesn't apply to you, then that's totally fine, but we need to talk about it. Okay. So, hopefully, everyone who can't listen to any of this has already turned off the podcast. I gave you time.
• 2:07
  I tried. I let you know. Just a heads up. We're gonna get real. This is not at all scripted, and I have no idea what I'm gonna say.
• 2:16
  And I'm gonna try to do my best to use, like, all of my coping skills, including getting all sassy pants. So watch out now because I don't know how this is gonna go, but I'm gonna do my best. So if anything, maybe it'll be helpful to somebody, and if nothing else, maybe it'll be a distraction for everybody else. But before I get started, this is your last chance. It is the October, and that's what this podcast is about.
• 2:47
  And I don't have any other way or words to, like, warn you, but that is the trigger warning. So please make sure if you have any protectors inside that need to help or good friends or someone who's a safe person on the outside who can help or things that help keep you grounded, like if you need your bear or your stuffy or your blanket or whatever keeps you safe or all the inside kids are all doing something happy right now and not where they can listen. Because we wanna make sure everyone knows that we're safe and everyone is grounded and everyone is just chill. And if they're not, go listen to some music instead of this podcast. Okay?
• 3:34
  So that is, like, as respectful and chill as I can be about it, but we're just gonna have to talk about it. Okay? So that's all I'm gonna say as far as introduction. And I mean all of that most respectfully. There's just only so many ways you can say it out loud.
• 3:50
  Like, it's not like in the online groups where I can put stars in what I'm saying, which actually for us is a problem, but that's a different story. But our issues, that's a trigger, and so it makes participating in the groups when we need help really difficult, by the way. But it's okay. We're not the boss of the group, so we will follow the rules or not participate. Not a problem.
• 4:15
  Okay. So if you're still listening, then we're gonna talk about the holiday weekend, and this specific holiday weekend is Halloween. And here's what I have to say about it. Like, at the very easiest level, not saying it's an easy level, but at the very easiest level, it's like a family holiday with kids and all of that. And so even without any other issues, it can be super triggering for those of us who have big feelings about not having families or about missing out on families or being separated from families or whatever our family trauma can be, any kind of holiday at any time of year can be really triggering even when nothing bad is happening.
• 5:11
  So when we see other families gathering, children, when we see families doing activities with their children, these kinds of things can be super triggering. And we have to be careful and really present and aware that everybody is safe. There are not people getting hurt. We recently went with our friend to her family's, like, little fall gathering, and it was super safe, and it was super chill, and it was very easy. Our friend is safe.
• 5:44
  Her husband is safe. We adore her children. They're friends with our children. And so it was a good context, but at the same time, we were so super vigilant. Like, where are the children?
• 5:58
  Are they with a safe adult right now? No one is hurting them. Our children were not even there, and we were all over just making sure we knew that where her children were. And we were super protective of our friend, which I didn't expect, because our friend is a strong woman and can take care of herself. But this was just our first time to be in that environment outside of our own family.
• 6:29
  And not in any kind of foster care context, which is another trigger. So let's talk about that one for a minute. There's also a trigger that is common with survivors where you're in settings like family gatherings or holidays or special events where people are being super kind and trying to include you, but it's really triggering and scary because in the past, people have done that badly, or people have done a poor job of trying to include you, or they included you and then let go of you anyway. And so it can bring up a lot of grief issues, or a lot of loss issues, or a lot of trust issues, and be a super triggering time. So for us, this season of, like, school starting and then October all the way to the spring is absolutely hands down the hardest time of the year.
• 7:45
  So just for our personal context, we have Halloween, which has all kinds of layers to it, and then Thanksgiving comes, and then it's the Christmas holiday, and then New Year's. And in these same months, in these months where it's like bam, bam, bam with a whole bunch of big dates that actually start in September, but that's a different story. It was at this time of year that both of our parents died as well. And so, know there are a lot of dates that can trigger a lot of people for all kinds of reasons, but all of ours are jam packed into, like, a four month window.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: And it's terrible. And I'm laughing because it could not be any worse, except except oh, wait. Of course, it could be worse.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Because those of you who struggle with Halloween, and you know what I'm talking about without me going there right now,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: let me tell you how it can get worse. Because it is Halloween weekend, and we are in Puerto Rico, where they are all legit as
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: a culture celebrating the day of the
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: dead and all kinds of things going on down here.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: And let me tell you,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: if you wanna just have some exposure therapy, if you wanna just walk right into the lion's den, Okay. Okay. But it gets better. It gets better. Not only are we in Puerto Rico right now for, like, the weekend before Halloween, but next week when we fly home,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: then we go to a conference.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: That is a retreat in the woods on Halloween. Like, could we be any more glutton for punishment? Like, I can't even tell you. Those of you who understand and are in a safe enough place to appreciate this, I'm dying. I'm dying here.
• 10:27
  Like You guys, this is like the opposite of avoidance. Whether you understand what I'm talking about or not, and I'm not trying
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: to be vague on purpose, I'm trying to be safe for people who are get triggered easily.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: This this what you need to understand is this is like the opposite of avoidance. What is the word that is for exposing yourself to, like, every single worst example of what you don't wanna be exposed to? Because that's the word I need right now, because that's what we're doing. Oh my goodness.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Okay. I'm gonna try and find a super safe way to talk about some very hard things as well as I can very, very carefully. So again, if you're not in a place to listen, then just skip this podcast.
• 11:46
  But because of our circumstances and seriously, like, legit, because we are like, what do you say in English, taking the bull by the horns or something like that? Like, we are working on stuff, and we're starting to talk about things. And I know it's like scratching the surface of the iceberg or whatever, but, like, for us, it's a huge deal. And so this is one more example of we are going through this, and so we wanna talk about it. Not in a dangerous way and not in a trauma dumping way, but in a this is real for people, and we need to finally talk about it directly.
• 12:24
  Does that make sense? So hang on. Here we go. Okay. So, obviously, DID is like a trauma problem.
• 12:33
  Right? And there are different kinds of abuse, like physical abuse or sexual abuse, emotional, verbal, mental, all these different things. Right? But if you've listened to other podcasts we've had when we've had guests ourselves have not talked about it directly before this time, there is also a kind of abuse that is called ritual abuse. Now, I don't want to get super scary, but I do wanna clarify some things because it comes up in the community a lot at this time of year.
• 13:11
  One thing to understand about what ritual abuse is is that that is a very broad term that can mean a lot of things. A ritual is anything that's, like, formal that you're going through the motions of celebrating or honoring or organizing in some particular way. So, like, it could be a church thing. It could be, like, one of our guests talked about the boy scouts. Any kind of thing that is ritualized or organized and often uses things like symbols or other elements as a part of that ritual.
• 14:07
  Very most simply, a ritual is simply a sequence of activities that often includes gestures or words or objects performed in a specific place according to a set sequence that is often repeated as part of a tradition and sometimes as part of a community. Now you could use a completely neutral example of, like, your morning routine. So you may have a ritual you go through where you hit your alarm clock and you get up and you brush your teeth and go to the bathroom, wash your hands, take your shower, get dressed for your day. Okay? That's a ritual.
• 14:53
  When I make my morning breakfast and we have to have cream of wheat every day because of our Sjogren's disorder, which is because of trauma, by the way. So can we get that better if we get better with trauma? I don't know. That's a whole different podcast. But there's, like, a specific ritual because if you pour that cream of wheat in that pot too fast, it's gonna get all clumpy, and the clumps are gonna be nasty, and then you're gonna be gagging on breakfast.
• 15:23
  Like, it's just not a thing. Okay. So you can be super neutral about what a ritual is. Another example of a ritual would be like when the kids come home from school and they put their backpacks on the row and we go through checking everybody's backpack and then give them a snack and then let them go play. It's kind of like this repeated thing where there are certain elements used every time as part of our group, and how we govern our group, and what that means to us.
• 15:54
  Does it make sense? So it can be super simple like that all the way to a more focused version of, like, church, for example. Rituals in church may involve things like symbols on the windows or on the walls that are just decorations of the church. It could involve certain things you do of standing or kneeling or sitting or praying or saying words or singing songs or taking sacrament or communion, things like that, those can be rituals. There can be rituals of things a group says together, like in scouts or other organizations.
• 16:40
  Okay? So it can be very, very broad in what a ritual is, and then abuse within that context would be called ritual abuse. Okay. Does that part make sense so far? Okay.
• 17:02
  Are you still safe? If you're listening to this, make sure that you're still safe. Take a minute. Breathe. Think about happy thoughts.
• 17:13
  Get grounded. Can you feel your feet? Can you feel your hands? Do you have a safe object in your hands? Are you you have safe people inside or outside with you?
• 17:24
  Okay. So that's a super general broad version of ritual abuse. Okay. Now when abuse with a ritual is related to the people doing the ritual instead of the ritual itself, then it's sometimes called organizational abuse. So sometimes when you've read in the newspaper about problems with Catholic priests, for example, then that's organizational abuse, or problems with abuse in the scouting program, then that's organizational abuse.
• 18:06
  Does that make sense? So these are broad terms that are sometimes used interchangeably, but sometimes they can mean very specific things. Okay? Are you still safe? Are you still with me?
• 18:22
  Maybe grab some candy or some a frozen orange or something so you're still grounded. You're still with me. You're still safe. Okay. When there is abuse that is specific to the ritual itself, like a religious rite or some kind of solemn rite or some kind of ceremony, then that is called ritual abuse.
• 18:50
  And so often what it can be is the ritual itself gets perverted in some way from something that was meant to be good or neutral to something that is used to hurt people. And so then that becomes ritual abuse where something that's normally good is acted out in the same way or their symbols are replaced or the environment is used or copycat environments are made of it or something like that where people get hurt instead of, like, a god being worshipped or something. Right? So that is what ritual abuse can be. But sometimes, it's all mixed together and everything overlaps where people are hurt in the ritual also by the people doing the ritual and it's all just a terrible thing and it's very tragic and very sad.
• 20:04
  Obviously there can be a lot more to it and a lot more specifics but I don't want to get get into it more than that right now. There's a number of reasons why it can be difficult to talk about. Sometimes because people don't believe that it's a thing that happens even though it's very well documented, and sometimes because people who are doing this to people don't wanna get caught or in trouble. And then, obviously, as we've talked about already, because it can be super triggering for survivors who have endured this or gone through this. And there can be lots of different kinds of it in lots of different shapes and lots of different formats or venues, so to speak.
• 20:59
  Does that make sense? So it gets really complicated to talk about it as well because, like, there's so many different ideas of what we're talking about. To get the same definition is really tricky because everyone's experience with it is a different thing, but there are some things that are in common. The other piece that makes it really hard to talk about has kind of lots of layers too, but one is that there can be specific triggers that really set off different insiders to sort of respond in a different way, as well as trying to talk about it can set off similar things where different ones inside respond in different ways. And then also just a layer of it being such a dark and awful thing, there's no real way to talk around it without also talking about abuse, right?
• 22:03
  So if I talk about a physical abuse or something with my parents, then I can be like, well, this happened and this happened and this happened, and sort of talk around it until I'm ready to talk about it with a therapist, like specifically of, oh yeah, and then this and this and this. But with ritual abuse, there's no easy way to, like, go there without already going there. Like, as soon as you bring it up or as soon as you get even close to bringing it up, there are so many layers and there's no way to, like, sort of talk about it. And so that makes it tricky. And then another layer that makes it super tricky is that there's a feeling that this is so bad, even worse than regular abuse, which isn't okay at all, but you feel those shame layers.
• 22:54
  Right? And so there's this feeling of people are better off without me or without knowing about this in me or I can even protect them or keep them safe by staying away. As if somehow we ourselves inside I, whatever, collective I, like we become the danger. And so actually, if you're my friend and I love you, then the best thing I can do for you is stay away from you. Now, what we know in our head, like in our brain, is that that's entirely false.
• 23:34
  Like, if there's anything we've learned in the last year doing this podcast is that healing comes through connection. And as the therapist has said before, like, move closer, not away, and that's when healing comes. But that's not our feelings. Like, our feelings can lie to us and say, because I care about you, I need to withdraw and I need to stay away because I'm so bad, or because I'm actually a danger to you, or because I could put you in danger just because of what's inside of me. Now, that's not actually true.
• 24:12
  And survivors who don't even have any kind of ritual abuse can have those same kinds of feelings. But it's almost always a part of ritual abuse for sure. Because often what happens with ritual abuse is that as part of the abuse, there's built in an even deeper dynamic of you can't talk about this, you can't tell about this, you can't ask for help, or this will happen. And that can be a dynamic with regular abuse too, but with ritual abuse it's almost like they can teach part of your brain to, like, sort of inflict that punishment even if they're not there. Does that make sense?
• 24:57
  That's the best way I can talk about it and still be safe. And so it gets really, really hard to get help with these kinds of things. But if you remember, earlier on the podcast, there was going to be a conference about ritual abuse. We were not able to go to the conference about ritual abuse because we were already going to Africa. And so we didn't go there, but we talked to the people who run a website called the SMART website, which is at ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse, and it has all kinds of information.
• 25:33
  And that website is amazing as far as all the information it has, but it's actually almost too much information for us, too confusing and too overstimulating, like there's so much there that we have never gone on it before this moment other than to be like, woah, that's a lot. Okay, does that make sense? So let me give you that warning before you look at the website or before you go there, and before you listen to what we're gonna say, we've actually never been on the website before until just now pulling it up so we can read a quote. Because they have on this page a quote I wanna read that defines it. Here is what it says.
• 26:19
  What is ritual abuse? It is methodical abuse often using indoctrination aimed at breaking the will of another human being. Ritual abuse usually involves repeated abuse over an extended period of time. Okay. I'm gonna skip some of this And the you brain.
• 26:50
  A victim a profound terror of the people involved. I'm skipping pieces of it because it's I don't wanna trigger people. But most victims are in a state of terror and dissociation. Okay. So that is I'm literally clicking off this page because I can't even have that up.
• 27:18
  That's so much information. But that quote I wanted to read to you to explain a little bit more in-depth of what we're talking about. That can look different for a lot of people who have been through different kinds of experiences. And I'm not at all going to get in-depth into those kinds of things or what that can look like because I'm not here to talk about that, and also I don't wanna trigger people. But what I do wanna talk about is that much to say the words out loud, to sort of explain and define the words a little bit, and to acknowledge that in our own experience, in our own sort of ways, we went through different things that make this time of year really super hard.
• 28:15
  And again, I don't wanna talk about lots of trauma on the podcast, we've never done that very much, but some things have come up and I don't want to trigger people who are listening, but just for our own process and for those who inside us will be listening to this podcast later when I'm trying to talk about it and we're trying to learn about it and we continue talking to the therapist about it, there are some things that from our experience that we can know and acknowledge was part of this experience. Okay? So there's sort of a simple layer of it for us in the context that the father was a music minister and there were things that happened at church, in an actual church building, in different places with different people there, and so that's one layer of things. And so for us, in our example, church can be super, super triggering even though for some parts of us it's also a very important part of our life. There's another layer in that Oh, this is really hard to talk about.
• 29:37
  I thought I could do it in simple ways even though it was a hard topic, but I'm really struggling actually. So let me just take a minute. Deep breaths. Deep breaths. Okay.
• 29:55
  So there's another layer where some of those same people who were involved with that and did things at church or or were inappropriate at church, in the church setting, not during the church service, but in the setting of us being in that building a lot because the father worked there. The same people did other things that included costumes, so Halloween is triggering for that reason. It included sort of their own rituals in a different organization that was not church, as well as their own thing that they sort of if I could just say play acted at on their own in our, like, in our land, what we now refer to as out at the woods, but on the grandparents' farm, basically is where that was. And so there's even a feeling sometime in online support groups was about if my ritual abuse wasn't with this kind that's now in the news and getting prosecuted, maybe it didn't count. Or if my ritual abuse wasn't didn't happen with the military involved, then maybe it didn't count.
• 31:23
  Or if my ritual abuse was like, it's like any other kind of abuse, you guys. You can't compare stories. The point isn't about whose abuse was worse. The point is that you have survived and now time is safe and now we are connected and safe with each other, and getting a good therapist and learning how to keep safe and how to work through these things is what makes a difference, and is what is important and what matters. So staying grounded, being aware of the triggers, being aware of what your resources are, like how you can get help or how you can get support, or even how to avoid in good and healthy ways.
• 32:11
  Right? So, even though we are in Puerto Rico and then going to the retreat in the woods, I can tell you one thing we're not doing is sitting in our house answering the doorbell with people dressed up coming to ask for candy. Like, that's just too much for us. I can hang out in the back, watch a movie, and eat a pizza, and be just fine and handle it. Right?
• 32:39
  So I'm talking about hard things, and I'm sorry that sometimes it's too vague, but the point is that what we can do together is sort of take that power back where even though it's scary stuff in memory time, we don't have to be afraid of it in now time. Okay? So, like, for example, our children our children actually dress up for every Halloween, and they have adorable costumes, and they are a different book every year. And so it's a book that we feel like represents our family for that year, it's a book we've read to the children, and so every year there and we have like a lot of children, right? Like there's six of them.
• 33:28
  So we need a book that has lots of characters, and then every year, we pick that book of what represents our family and has enough characters for all the kids to dress up, and then we make costumes. We don't buy costumes, and we don't spend money on costumes. We just, from fun things around the house, create the different characters of that book, and then they go to, like, a park or a safe a safe place to trick or treat. We don't take our kids door to door. For us, that's just, again, too triggering and too much.
• 34:02
  So there are ways to function in whatever your life context is, but to do it in safe ways that are comfortable for you. That's true. But it's also true that at some point, we have to stop being afraid. And it's also true that at some point, we have to take our power back. I don't mean foolish.
• 34:29
  I don't mean be unsafe. I don't mean do too much too soon. There's a lot to say about working together inside in different ways to protect yourself and keep yourself safe during difficult triggering dates on the calendar, just like in other triggering situations. But also with a good therapist, and when the time is right, and when you're ready, and when others inside are ready, and everyone's on the same page about it, at some point you've got to talk about these things, because it's part of what happened to you, it's valid, and it's not okay that it happened to you, and it makes sense that you have super huge, big feelings about it. And it makes sense that it feels super scary to even bring it up or try to talk about it.
• 35:23
  But there are safe ways to do it when you are ready. And when you're not ready, there are lots of things that you can do to keep yourself safe until you are ready and have a safe place and a safe person to talk about some of those things with. Are you still with me? Are you still grounded? Can you feel your feet on the floor or in your chair where you're sitting?
• 35:51
  Can you feel with your hands if you touch something? Look around the room and notice where you are. Maybe take a drink of something cold or peppermints. Those are always our favorite if you want to eat a peppermint. Just make sure that you're still with me if you're listening.
• 36:08
  But because there are lots of things you can do to help yourself, one of them is finding a good therapist who understands what's going on, right? But also learning to recognize triggers. So you and your system, others in the system, learning to recognize what triggers are, whether those are different external things, or whether those are calendar dates, or whether they're different sensory input things, whatever the trigger is, just keep noticing them. And then as part of that, you need to make sure that you're safe. Do things that are just general good safety things.
• 36:49
  Be careful when you answer the phone or answer your door or when you're going to your car or people that you respond to in the community. Just be wise careful in those kinds of ways. Take care of yourself by eating healthy, by getting enough sleep, by staying present in the ways you can, by setting good boundaries, by having friends who care well for you rather than triggering you or adding to your level of stress by pushing you in ways or gaslighting or other things that are not healthy or even more damaging so that you're not safe to deal with these other things. Make sure that you're substituting self harm with self care in whatever ways that you can do to acknowledge triggers or even remove triggers, and talk about things, journal about things, seeing, paint, color, whatever you need to do to express those big, big feelings in good and safe ways. And trust yourself and your system that that's even possible.
• 38:05
  Like, take a chance in believing in yourself that you all are able to keep each other safe. You've done it for a long time. So work together and make a plan to keep you safe through difficult days. Move in your body, whether that's going for a walk in nature or spending time outside in safe ways, spending time with a pet, watching the sunset, going for a run or a swim, dancing, any of those things that get you grounded in your body, but also moving in your body so that all those, like, trauma chemicals, whatever doctor e talks about, like, that they can get out of you. That's so, so important.
• 38:56
  Collages and art and anything that's expressive, like clay, even if you need to do something with your hands. You can also even make your own sand therapy tray. Like, did you guys know that? Like, even if you're not a therapist, you can make your own sand tray, and it's still good for your brain for all of those, like, doctor e reasons and polyvagal and all that. There's tons of different kinds of sands.
• 39:23
  You can try out a few and see which ones you like and feel comfortable that you like touching or playing with, and then get like a small Tupperware or like a cookie sheet type Tupperware size thing with a lid and put the sand in it. And you can just play with the sand, and you can run your fingers through the sand, and it can actually feel really good and really grounding. And there may even be littles inside who like to play in the sand or want to have some little toys to put in the sand. Even if you're not doing it for therapy, you can do it for grounding at home. It can be an amazing thing.
• 40:01
  Remember that when there's any kind of acting out from others inside, that it's because they have a need. And if you focus on meeting that need and working together to keep all of you safe, then there won't be as much need for them to act out, and you can get them the help and the care that they need as well. It may be a time of year that is more chaotic, and so make sure you focus on the things that give you structure or even ritual in positive ways, like eating and brushing your teeth and showering and paying your bills and sleeping enough. You could even do things that are safe if they're in, like, comfortable non triggering ways, if that's like gliding candles or essential oils or something, so that you can sort of create positive triggers, certain music you like maybe that can ground you and help you feel better and feel safe and comfortable. But talk about inside or journal for inside or journal inside whatever it takes to figure out what would be some good positive triggers for you all.
• 41:19
  And for those of you who have parts, who feel like they have specific I don't want to say a lot of words here because I want to be really careful, and I want to make sure that you're safe when you're listening to this. But when you have parts who feel like they have specific responses that are almost automatic to certain triggers or certain things, if you label it as what it is and name it and become aware of it, that starts taking the power away and kind of undoing it. And when you don't respond to those automatic things and instead create new positive triggers and new automatic things that are healthy and keep you all safe, then even though that takes a lot of work and is a lot of practice, it actually weakens those automatic responses because they're not reinforced, because they don't get acted out. So you can still work together and help those internal parts and those others inside without reinforcing what the abusers told you or abusers tried to set up inside you to make your life harder or worse. But I know it's really, really hard.
• 42:34
  We are struggling really right now with staying connected, even doing the podcast, talking to our friends. We have been in a very scary and dangerous place in recent weeks. We're safe right now. I'm just I'm just being honest about how hard it's been and how easy and prepared how easy it has been it how how easy it would have been and how prepared we were to withdraw so completely because of triggers and feelings that were not telling us the truth inside and because of people who are inside who struggle with this time of year specifically, and it's been very, very hard. But staying and going to therapy anyway and texting our friends anyway and talking to the husband anyway has kept us alive and has kept us connected, and has given us power and control over some of these triggers that we didn't know was possible.
• 43:55
  Does that make sense? And so, I'm not saying that you need to, like, go to South America for the October or that you should spend Halloween in the woods. Like, that is too much and a series of circumstances that I don't know how it has unfolded. But you know what? We're gonna deal with it.
• 44:21
  And you know what? We're gonna handle this. And you know what? We're gonna not get lost in the process because we've come this far, and we wrote in the journal, We've come too far to only come this far. So yeah, it's a hard time of year and maybe the worst time of year.
• 44:43
  But you know what? This is our life, and we are trying to claim it, and we are fighting with everything that we have in us by our fingernails of trying to hold on and trying to stay present and trying to make progress and not give up. And it can feel absolutely impossible. I get it. I get how hard it is.
• 45:12
  I get how difficult it can be to even see your way out of any of this, but I promise that if you can hear my voice, or if you can see a safe friend, or if you can connect in some way, that that can be your own sacred ritual in a good and positive way of hanging on to life and health and goodness and strength and all of the power that is in you that has already gotten you through memory time, and that now time is safe, and that we are better together even on really hard days.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemsspeak.com. We'll see you there.