Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / How should we view the Tigers during a brutal losing skid?

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How should we view the Tigers during a brutal losing skid? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory Pod, the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Far Territory Network Detroit Tiger's podcast I'm Curious Deck Lee
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: with me is always a.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Man who prefers his rivalry is heated. He's Cody Stavenhagen.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: How we're doing all right here and still have not
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: watched that on Netflix?
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I have a goal for this pod. It's to thread
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: the needle. Can we talk about the Tigers in a
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: way that doesn't sugarcoat, that brings some reality to this
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: situation and yet also not panic understand its may understand
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: they're injured. Can we can we thread that needle? I
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: don't know by the end of this episode, maybe I'll
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: get worked up and straight from that. But my goal
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: is to thread the needle.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So, first of all, that's a great goal
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: to have and something that I really have on back
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and forth with in my mind about what is like
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the appropriate way to approach, you know, talking about this
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: team as currently constructed, because there's part of me that says, look, okay,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: they haven't won a series since the first first of the.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Month, right and you coming back home?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I wanted to see like signs of life, Okay, you
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: have a walk off win, there's some signs of life. Okay,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: you have an extra ending game.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Obviously those things can.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Go either way, but your only your runt production isn't there.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: And then Sunday you have but is largely an uncompetitive game.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: You made a little interesting at the end there, but
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: largely an uncompetitive game. And I keep kind of asking myself,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: is this the best they can do? And I think
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: that like trying to go that way might be the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: best way to, as you would phrase it, thread the neel.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Because.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: You can't really like complain about Riley Green, although like
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: he you know, came up short today obviously.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Green.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can't. So we're gonna start from there,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: right right.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: You can't complain about Kevin McGonagall, who, like, I don't
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: know what the ballpark stats were on that on that
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: shot to center field, but probably pretty high home run
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: in several ballparks, uh. You You can't complain about Casey
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Miies like who we'll get to a little bit later.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: There are some guys where it's like, all right, the
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: pieces are there, but the supporting actors and even the
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: ones that are supposed to be kind of main stage
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of them are just not up to snuff,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: and so like like my question like, is is this
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the best.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: You can do?
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Like some of them, I don't know if I should
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: be expecting much more than what they're giving A lot
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of them, yes, I am expecting a lot more than
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: what they're giving. But maybe there are the circumstances, are
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you know, sliding that scale as well? So so I
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: like that doesn't make sense because it doesn't make sense
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: my head.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to talk it out with you. God. Right, Well,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: here's twenty seven. Is this with all the injuries? Is
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: this the best they could do?
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know, No, No, Karen, they can do better
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: than this. This was my whole thing dating back I
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: don't know however long it was ago, when scoobab got
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: heard and the injury bug really set in. It wasn't
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: can they continue to play well? It was kind of expecting, Hey,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: things are probably gonna drop off. But they could they
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: be five and seven in their past twelve instead of
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: two and ten. I think they could, or at least certainly,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: that was the hope to tread water, to stay afloat,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: to not lose too much ground while you are playing
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: with a roster that is obviously diminished right now, that
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean they have to be too intent. Here's an
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: interesting way to look at it. Here's a list of
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Tiger's position players who are positive war in Baseball Reference.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Kevin mcgonald, Riley Green, Dylan Dingler, Labor Torres, Cole Keith's
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: at zero point one gauge. Workman's at zero point one.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: I guess we can give him that. Really, you have
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: three and three guys in an injured Glabor Torres who
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: have given you anything so far this season, and it's early.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: It's May, but we're forty six, forty seven games in now.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: It's it's different than the twenty games sample. So that's
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: really my biggest thing right now. Frustration amongst the fans
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: is certainly starting to set in, and a lot of
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: people are mad at aj Hinch and they're, you know,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: bringing up the off season. Why didn't they do more?
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: Like look, I don't know what exactly was it you
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: were wanting him to do. They're also ninth in payroll, Like,
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know that that's the best place to be
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: directing the iyer right now. I look at this man
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: and I'm looking at some players who just got to
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: start performing better. Jami Jones. Where are you at, Matt Vierling,
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Where you at Zach McKinstry, where you at Spencer Twirklsen?
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: This is getting exhausting, man, always having to talk around
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: the prolonged torque droughts, winsel Perez, where you at? Those
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: are all guys who have had tastes of success, some
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: of them big, some smaller samples in the major leagues,
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: All guys who have proven they can be winning players.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: All guys who are capable of being a lot better
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: than they have been through forty seven games, which again
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: is we're not talking to ten games sample. I think
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: a couple of those guys probably will improve as the
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: season goes on. But when you have so many guys
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: on the il, like now's the time if you want
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: my answers, like what's wrong? Like what has to happen?
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: Who's to blame? Some of these guys got to play
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: a little better so you can at least be playing
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: close to five hundred ball until you get your pitching
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: back healthy, until you get Glaber Carrie some other guys back.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I always, even though obviously sports
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: are a results based business. I try not to play
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: the results when I try to analyze like the moves
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: that are made, the plays that are made, the plays
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: that aren't made, and kind of go into the process
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: of how we got here. And that's why I struggle
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: with like this team as a whole as the best
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: way to talk about them, because it it's no doubt disappointing.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: But you have all these guys on the il, it's
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: no doubt that they're not productive at the play. But
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that roster, that that batting or you just threw up
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: there on the screen, Cody, Uh, yeah, nope, that you know,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: you're not scoring a whole lot of runs, you know
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: what I mean? And then and then uh and then
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: also like are we asking? And I asked myself, are
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: we asking too much of certain guys? Are we at
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: like Matt Vereling is someone you mentioned right there, Matt Vereling?
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Are we asking too much of him to be an
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: everyday center fielder? Is it possible that this is the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: result alt of somebody playing every day in center field
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: who is just not really in his bag to be
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: in every day center fielder? How much do you take
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that consideration? Should he be able to do it? For
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: a month's stretch and like hold water more than he is.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I tend to agree with that, but maybe maybe he's
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: just not Maybe he's not. Torkalsen, who you mentioned, obviously
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: is an exception to these examples that I'm giving. And
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: then then Wentzel Perez, thing like I can live with
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: like a lot of these guys that we need that
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: we as fans need to step up, Torque, Berlin, McKinstry, Jami,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: almost all of them have some sort of upside skill
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: that you just kind of wait to like showcase itself.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Wentzel is an exception to that.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: So like like I can live with like like Torque
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: being in the lineup almost every day because like it,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: when it gets going good, he could win you some games.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And to his credit, he did win you a game
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: on Friday.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Matt beer Lean obviously with the speed we saw that
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: this weekend, and I you know, he actually has impressed
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: me a little bit with some of his play in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the outfield. McKinstry, is this do it all guy based pass,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: you know a little bit more upside with the bat
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: than you anticipate.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Versatility.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Where am I turning to to say, like Wenzel Perez
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: in the lineup again, so maybe this can happen.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: What is the this for Wenzel Perez? I just don't
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: think it exists.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: And you talk about positive war, this guy is a
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: full one point zero or close to it negative guy
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: on the team right now.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And like in terms of.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: War, I what am I hoping for with Wenzel Perez?
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: And I hate that I have to kind of go
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: down this route with him, but I'm not hoping for
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: anything for Wenzel Perez. And we've also seen the switch
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: hitting thing is not as relied upon as it would
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: be for other guys. So again, what am I hoping
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: for when he's in the lineup?
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Not really a lot.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: So if he's a sunk cost, like there's got to
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: be some some avenue, and maybe it's for his benefit
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: too that like you just can't have him in the
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: lineup every day because it's it's it's dragging your team
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: among other people that are dragging your teams, but you
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: don't have the Yeah, but this could happen with him.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that is worth pointing out, Like if this
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: team are healthier right now, Wencel Peaz might have found
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: his way off the roster and we might be talking
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: about that with some other guys at this point, but
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: given where they're at, I don't know that demoting someone
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: to Toledo is the solution. Like again, like who you
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: bring it up? Do you have? Like can you do better?
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: You ask, like, do you have someone who is a
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: better option than Wencel Peaz right now? I'm not sure
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: you do. I mean, could you. I guess you call
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: it bin Maljerry and it's not hard to hit better
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: than one sixty nine or whatever Winstl's doing right now,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: But you know, would you do that or trust some
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: of the Winstle track right Clearly the Tigers are leaning
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: toward the track record, and I think that's kind of
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: my thing, especially watching these games. Saturday was two walks,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: fourteen k's just chasing breaking balls all day, and Sunday
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: at least they only punched I think six times. It
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: was some casting the bat, you know, some a lot
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: of weak contact. Kevin Gosman did not pitch with a
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: runner in scoring position. You know, there was just no threat.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: There was just no life. And then it's like, well, okay,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: it might you know. I think one of the most
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: overrated things in sports is like the shakeup, especially in baseball.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: But you know, these guys kind of all the names
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: that I listed and probably some others don't just get
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: a free pass forever. And I don't know if that's
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: a demotion or what, but it's time to look in
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: the mirror and some of these players that you expect
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: more out of got to find a way to start producing.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: Obviously that's easier said than done. It's easy to say
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: from our standpoint, but that is the reality of this
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: team right now. The bar doesn't have to be high.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: If you can go five and seven again in these
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: last twelve, you're feeling better, but you have gone two
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: and ten. This has been worst case scenario. You know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: would the Tigers fall apart because they were injured right
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: now they're falling apart. Doesn't mean it's over. It's may.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Let's thread the needle. Two and a half games out
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: of a wild card spot, but you're losing ground in
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: this division fast. You got Cleveland come to town. We're
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: gonna talk about all that and more.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're I.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: At one more point on that, but first we got
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: to get to a break another guy, and we're gonna
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: talk about him on the other side that it's hard
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to thread the needle and that would be one Jack Flaherty.
• 11:43
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• 12:50
  Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, you know, Cody, I think
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: maybe the way that I bet I can best summarize
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the Tigers right now is that, obviously baseball is a
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: high variance, kind of seemingly random game on a day
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: to day basis, the best teams are talented enough to
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: overcome the bounces that don't go their way, the balls
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: that go just inside the line or outside the line,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: depending on the perspective. You know, the the the collision
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: and the guy still catches the ball, you know what
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, Like those kind those kinds of plays, the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: best teams are able to cover them.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Everyone talks about the Dodgers.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Being great, and they are, but that was like them
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: just overcoming variants like to win the World Series last year, right, So,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: like if you go back and look at it's a
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: lot of random things that you know, someone went their way,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: some of them didn't. They just talented enough to overcome
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: it all. The Tigers are not. They're just not right
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: as of right now, They're just not good enough to
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: overcome variances that go against them. And some of these
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: things will even out, and the theory they should get
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: healthier and maybe they will prove to be good enough
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to overcome those. As of now, they're not, and so
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: that's the best way that I can summarize it. And
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: even like, you know, you look at Jack today. He
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: does get the six innings, but he gives up the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: four runs early.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And like this team just doesn't feel.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Good enough to overcome a four spot that early into
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: a game. And and then Jackson a whole nother discussion
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: too about like the best way to thread the needle
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: with him, because what he gave today, Cody, I would argue,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: is if this is a fully fledged Tiger squad, this
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: is like, even if they lose, we're thinking about, all right,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: this was a pretty solid good direction Jack flaherity outing.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: But it's hard to think about it that way given
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the stay of the team, given what he's done this year,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: which is what he's still winless, which I know, wins,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you know whatever, but it is kind of weird to
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: see no wins next to his name, right, and then
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: what's his r like five seven or you know whatever
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: somewhere around there I think I saw so, so yeah,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: can you thread the needle on Jack flarerity.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: It's it's a hard one to do. His era is
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: five to seven seven, and here's a threat the need
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: like his start today, six innings, four runs, that you
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: will take that out of a fourth or fifth starter.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Jack Flerity guess, I guess technically was your third starter
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: to start the season. I think it is harder to
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: palot even these six innings for and run type outings,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: knowing that we have seen him be better, knowing that
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: it seems like it's somewhere in there is a better
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: version of Jack Flaherty. If he can do what he
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: did today, It's not great, but he can keep you
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: in a game. And I think that's where I'm getting, like,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: is the good version of Jack on a consistent basis
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: coming back or is that ship sailing?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it seems like the stuff just isn't there. I mean,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: the pitch to vladd you know that was inside. It
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: wasn't a strike. Flarity after the game seemed to like
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: his execution, but it was less. It was like ninety
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: one point? What it was ninety one? Tell me Vlad
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: can't get his bat out on ninety He won? You know,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: belt high? Like, no, he did. You look at the
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: modeling and it actually says his stuff's about what it's
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: been throughout his career, even even the location in these
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: last couple outings. No, that that bottom gray is one hundred,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: so it's the location location plus of eighty nine. He's
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: normally been a slightly above league average pitcher in terms
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: of his location, So like the the standard for him.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: I've said this time again, it's just so high because
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: the stuff isn't really elite. I mean, sometimes the shape
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: of the slider is still good, but.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't know.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: That's that's the best I can do. I'm not sure
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: I've reached any conclusion. It's good that you know, this
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: outing didn't blow up when of them, like some outings
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: were blowing up there a little bit. I think he's
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: got into a slightly better place mentally. But man, you'd
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: like to see good Jack Flaherty. You would not like
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: to see four runs on the board every hour seem
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: either laborious or like it's just kind of teetering toward
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: a blow up. He did a good job today saving
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: the bullpen, keeping it reasonable, but you'd like to see
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: him be better.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again sometimes I I do kind of feel
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: like the psyche of a game, the psyche of a team,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: the psyche of a player. Like that stuff is real.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: You can't build your team around it. But like when
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: you know you're struggling and you like and you and
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: it's it's hard to get runs across the across the
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: plate and you know they got they got a dude
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: on the other side too, to give up like a couple,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you know, a couple of runs, a four spot and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: like what three innings?
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I do feel like that kind of.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Like that's what I would
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: be if I was in the dugout where it's like
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: this was gonna be hard. Now we're now we're in
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: a spot already, you know, and you know, players aren't dumb.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: They know like how they're doing.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: They know who's around them and who's performing well and
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: like all these things, and so that that part of
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: it is real. So like if if you could have
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: gotten four runs dispersed, we probably might even actually feel
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: a little bit better about like the Jack claerity out,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: but it was just so early and also ugly at
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: times with like obviously the home run and then you know,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: they call it a wild pitch, but I'm just gonna
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: say it on my scorecard, it's a it's a pass ball,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I agree, But but like, again, you're not You're not
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: able to overcome. You're not talented enough to overcome. Yeah,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: it was a ball, but he hit out of the yard.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: You're not talented enough to overcome what is a pretty
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: routine knuckle curve situation there, right, it was a knuckle curve.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I believe, uh, and and and have a pass ball
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: slash wild pitch and that that scores a run. You're
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: just not good enough to overcome these like little things,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: some of them unexpected or statistically unlikely to happen, but
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: you have to have two that happened early in a game,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and that's really all it took.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: To beat you today.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: So like, like, I'm afraid that they're a team right
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: now that is incapable of overcoming those kinds of things.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: And I think that I don't know if that's really
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: a hot take because they haven't done it the year.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: And I think that's a spot on take. Again, like
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: we've talked about, when you have Zach short and how
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: you lee and some others on on your roster, you
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: don't you don't get the benefit of overcoming some stuff
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: that does raise the bar for how sharp everything has
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: to be. And that's another, like one of the things
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: we can't quantify really, I mean the defensive metric stills
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: this team hasn't been sharp, but like they haven't been
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: sharp that the energy, especially this series, man, it was
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: pretty it was pretty lacking. And you know there are
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: people go to blame that on the manager or whatever.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but I the energy does seem gown
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: to me. That is something I would like to see corrected.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know exactly how you go about doing that.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Maybe just the ball finding some green grass and everything.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: You know, those things start to take care of themselves.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: But uh, don't don't love the vibe around the team
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: at this point.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I know one thing that could probably spark the squad, Cody,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get to that in the second. But
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: first I gotta tell you guys that Tiger Territory is
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: brought to you by FanDuel.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Baseball Fans.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: MLB season is in full swing and FanDuel is giving
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you a chance to call your shot with daily Dingers.
• 20:24
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• 20:26
  Speaker 1: on who's hitting the home run in their game, and
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• 20:30
  Speaker 1: on your next bet. For a chance at extra winnings.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: It's just another reason why FanDuel is the home of
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: home runs. So I got Kevin McGonagall as my daily
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Dinger pick, and the similar reasons that I picked Riley
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Green last time. Cody is that, look, he's obviously got
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: a talented hitter who's seen the ball well, and he
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: hasn't had a home run since April twenty fifth, and
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: as he only got two on the air. You joked
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a couple episodes ago, it's like, when do we get
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: to like forticizing Kevin McGonagall because he hasn't hit a
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: home run in a while. But if you go look
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: at his like track record in the mind, it's not
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: like this guy is like, you know, nineteen eighty nine
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Jose Canteco or anything when it comes to home run
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: track record. So what is in your mind having watched him,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: you know, over the years from far and now this
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: season like up close, do you have a grasp of
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: what his real power tool is and now and you
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: know kind of what it could be like, do we
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: have a good Do you have an understanding of the
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: power of.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Ken mcgone I think that's probably my biggest question with
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Kevin mcgonagal, care and do me a favor while i'm
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: while I'm talking, look it up. What's MLB pipeline? What's
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Baseball America? Give the power? Like fifty five? Maybe, I
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: think that's a question. That's something McGonagall certainly already proved
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: and improved throughout the minor leagues. Was the power? That
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: was maybe one reason this guy wasn't like a top
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: ten draft pick and instead he was at top forty
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: draft pick. Some questions, you know, a smaller frame, what's
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: the power, Well, he hits the ball hard, he hits
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: the ball in the air. A lot those things bowed
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: very well for him. I'm not too worried about the
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: power right now, so long as he's checking so many
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: other boxes, so long as there are a million other
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: good markers about what he does at the plate. You know,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: there's the old scouting adage like power comes last, and
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of that is true. But you know,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: when we if you want to go super big picture
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: and be like, is Kevin McGonagall a Hall of Fame player,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: this might be one of the one of the questions.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: This might be one of the differences between this is
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: just a guy who rakes in the league for fifteen years,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: or is this like an all time great we're talking about.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I think the jury could still be
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: out a little bit. I would certainly like to believe
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: this guy could have power similar to his idol, Chase Utley,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: A guy who's twenty twenty five, maybe even touching thirty
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: homers at points in his career. I start, I think
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: that's close to the best version Chase Utley only two
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: hundred and fifty nine career homers, for what it's worth,
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: But had I think three thirty home run seasons, I
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be shocked. Like, that's probably close to the best
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: version of McGonagall. But given how so far this guy's
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: only been close to like the best version of himself, Like,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't be shocked if he's able to achieve that.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Now there is a realistic scenario where this is guy's
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: a three hundred hitter, but maybe closer, just a fifteen
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: homer a year guy that you know, that's kind of
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: the one thing I'm not sure yet what it looks
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: like long term.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: You're right on MLB pipeline. It's fifty five grade, is
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: what they what they gave him for power and just
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: for the for.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: The sake of it, we can go back.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: This is his last year's skyn report hit seventy power,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: fifty five, run, fifty five, arm fifty field fifty So maybe,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: so if you want perspective, and you can gotta, you know,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: assess that on your own about whether that's accurate compared
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: to the power, and that might kind of dictate whether
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you think that's a good grade or not.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: So so, yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I think he's gonna be He's gonna be a guy
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: that you're always gonna think should hit more home runs,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: not for anything he's doing. It's just like everything else
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: about the swing is so good and the approach is
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: so good, and you just think he would be able
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: to hit more.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: But he might. He just might not be that guy.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: And he might He probably will be good enough that
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: it's not gonna be a deterrent to his overall projection.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: All right, So are you ready to play the game?
• 24:27
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• 25:01
  Speaker 2: All right, coming back here, Cody.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: You know you said something interesting that I kind of
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: did want to spend a couple of minutes on. And
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that's you know some people, you know who's gonna kind
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: of spark really you know this team, and you know
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: is the manager to blame? Like you're just throwing out
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: that that's something that people say. Obviously that's not your assessment.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And I do think like this upcoming season series with
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Cleveland is one of those.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: It feels pretty big. It feels like a pretty big
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: series up playing a lot of ball. This is a
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: lot of good ball.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: This is a team that's leading your division kind of rivals,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: if you real rivalry, I would say more so than
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: the Blue jays men in the playoffs the past two years.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: And I do think a sense of urgency would be
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: would do this team some good and I and so like.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: So the question is and obviously we don't know. I
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: don't think you can answer. I don't think anybody can.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Is this team capable of having a mid May sense
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: of urgency without it sort of out of character? And
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: how they you know, don't want to ride the roller
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: coaster high and low and like all this stuff, because if.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Not, I kind of think this could be a pretty.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I think it could be rough again, Cody, I think
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: you need someone to not be afraid to say, like, hey,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: this is a big four days, like let's go out
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: there and let's f and do something. You know, let's
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: let's throw some let's throw some e f and punches
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and see what happens and we'll live with the result,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: not just the like well, you know.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Take a day to day. So that's just the thought
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I had.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Not the worst thought. I don't know, Like this is
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: the weird thing about baseball, you know, it's not the
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: raw raw sport. I mean, you know when people always say, well,
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Jim Leland might be you know, throwing things, or a
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: weaver would have done this, and that's true, and there
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: have been other managers who have not conducted Dave Roberts
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: doesn't conduct himself like that. When it comes to AJ,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: like the baseball manager as a concept fascinates me. It's
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: one of the strangest jobs you have ever existed, I think, right,
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: because you're judged on all these things you can't you
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: can't define. You came on one pot after a good
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Tigers game and said, you know, AJ was in his
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: bag tonight. And it hasn't felt like AJ's been in
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: his bag a lot this season, probably because his players
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: haven't produced. It's harder for your chest moves to work
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: when your players aren't executing. But I would like to see,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you know, what's the way AJ can get in the
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: bag a little bit, whether that's on the field, whether
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: that's carrying himself, how he carries himself like I don't know,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: just subjectively, he's not having the best year of his
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: managerial career so far, probably because his team's injured and
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: we've rattled off six guys who aren't aren't performing up
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: to par. But I don't know. Is there a version
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: of AJ that can sit on his back porch and
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: have a drink in his hand and think about things
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: a little bit and show up to the park with
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: a little bit of edge the next day, and that
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: can that help his team. I don't know if that
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: exists or if that's real, but if I were, I
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: kind of think, you know, that's kind of what I
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: would be trying to do right now and the team
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: as a whole. Yeah, what's it take to get a
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: spark right now when you're really going through it? I'm
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: not sure, but there's a long history of baseball players
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: weird quirks, weird superstitions. Someone takes a different route to
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: the ballpark that day and then they get three hits,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Like I, maybe it's time to start trying goofy stuff
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: And again, this is a Cleveland series. I think all
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: efforts would be worthwhile endeavors to try to break out
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: of this this slump that you're in. As we look
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: at the record Tigers obviously twenty and twenty seven, Cleveland
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Guardians will come in to Detroit twenty six and twenty two.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: So again, nothing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Thread the needle AJ, I think AJ, if anybody can
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: do it, AJ can thread the needle between being the
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: calm and collective and like, you know, but also kind
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: of like hey man, you know, do something kind of
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: light a fire under the butt. If anybody could do it,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: it'd be AJ. And I think this is a prime
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: opportunity to kind of you want you want positional flexibility
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: and you want optionality. AJ should show some optionality, you know, tonight,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: tomorrow morning, BP, you know, lineup interactions, everything, show some
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: optionality because I think this team could probably use it
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: because something's gonna get them out of their rut or
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: these conversations are gonna get dicey really fast.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: So we will.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: We'll be back here Tuesday night post game and then
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: obviously Thursday to recap the Cleveland series and and all
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: these things that we talked about. We might in one
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: way or another, Cody, we might have to just say
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: screw the needle.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: We're not threading squat and and we're just gonna.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Have to react to to like a big series versus
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the Guardians that I do believe will kind of tell
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: us something.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: So anything else before we jet.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Out, shout out Casey Manz who returned and had a
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: really nice outing. And you want positive signs going forward.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: If Casey can pitch like he has to this point
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: when healthy this season, that would be huge. Just getting
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: another starter, traditional starter back in your rotation is pretty big.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Casey's been really good. Kind of warms my heart just
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: when Casey Mice is clicking something about it just it
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: just feels right. So he certainly deserves a shout out.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Missed the minimum amount of time on the IL and
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: and gave his team a little bit of a boost
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: even though they couldn't get a win for him.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a my bad, Casey, Like we should
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: have spent some time and I was just worked up
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: on so many other things. So next time we're out here,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: we'll we'll we'll give Casey Mice some proper flowers and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: you know what is return could mean because because as
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: we saw it could be really impactful even though that
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: was a losing effort, not his fault though. Uh And
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: and so yeah, good good on Casey. That things are
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: always really weird leg injuries, pitchers, all that stuff, and
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: you know he certainly showed like, hey, I'm good, I'm
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I'm Casey f and Mice.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: You can follow us on x from me known a
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Twitter at Cody Stavenhagen. I'm here on the score is
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: decically at Tiger Territory, Underscore, YouTube, Apple, Spotify.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: You guys know what to do. Subscribe.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: We appreciate all of you so for Cochy Stapenhagen, I'm here, Steckley,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: everybody have great day.