Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 414] Rock’s Greatest “What Ifs”: The Decisions That Could Have Changed Everything with Mike Garam

Transcript

[EP 414] Rock’s Greatest “What Ifs”: The Decisions That Could Have Changed Everything with Mike Garam · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: One of the situations with this Poison and C.C. Deville
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: situation in Slash is that C.C. Deville brought the song
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Talk Dirty to Me to the band. So without C.C.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Deville in Poison, Talk Dirty to Me is not a
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: song that appears on what the cat dragged in. It just,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: it's not there. And that's their calling card from the beginning.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: It just wouldn't exist. I mean, I can't see Slash
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: writing Talk Dirty to Me.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: We're totally booked.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Rock and roll! Wow. I think I'll leave you to
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: your reading. Little hand says it's time to rock and roll.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Rock and roll!
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: We are totally booked. Welcome back to Booked on Rock,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: conversations with authors, musicians, and insiders, revealing the stories behind
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: classic rock's greatest songs, albums, and artists. Before we get started,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: if you're looking for some great classic rock merchandise, you
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: can save 15% at oldglory.com with the promo code BOOKEDONROCK.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Just click the link in the show notes or visit BookedOnRock.com
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: and head to my deals. Check it out. A lot
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: of great stuff there over at OldGlory.com. Now on to
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: the show. Rock history. It is filled with fascinating turning
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: points where one audition, one phone call, one personnel decision
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: could have completely changed the sound and future of a band.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: In the book Near Miss, Alternate Histories of Rock's Great
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Personnel Decisions, Mike Garam explores those roads not taken using
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: the historical record to ask some irresistible what-if questions about
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: the musicians who came remarkably close to rewriting rock and
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: roll history. Mike, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Hey, Eric. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to a fun conversation.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: This is going to be fun. What a great concept.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: It's such a great concept. You say the idea for
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: the book took off when you learned of guitarist John
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Sykes' passing, which I thought was interesting. So what was
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: it about that moment that led you to the idea
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: for this book?
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I played guitar for quite a long time, over
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: 20 years, and he was one of my favorite, and
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: still is, even today.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Post-mortem.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: He's one of my favorite guitarists of all time. So
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: in 2024, when he passed away, no one really knew
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: much about the guy. He kind of lived sort of
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a hermit sort of lifestyle. So when he died, it
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: kind of came out of nowhere. So I started, my
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Google feed started populating with John Stikes stories. And I
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: say this and tell the story in the introduction, but
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I never knew that John Sykes was potentially being considered
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: to replace Steve Clark and Def Leppard. after Steve Clark
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: passed away, but, um, I'm reading this article. Uh, I
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: think it's from ultimate guitar, um, magazine. And it was
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: an interview with Vivian Campbell where he is talking, you know, they're,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: they're asking him about John Sykes and, you know, they
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: had sort of parallel careers.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: In a way, if you go back and look. And, um,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: He said, yeah.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: He said, when I tried out for Def Leppard, there
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: was a couple other guys. One notably was Sykes. And
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: he goes, just based on the talent level, I thought
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: if it's based on talent, singing, playing, writing, he's getting
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: the gig.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Obviously, he didn't.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: And Vivian Campbell's still in Def Leppard all these years later.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it got me thinking.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, what would Def Leppard have sounded like
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: with John Sykes on one side of the stage and
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Phil Collin on the other. And I'm thinking, well, that
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: would have been crazy. I couldn't really fathom it. So
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I started thinking, well, there's gotta be other stories kind
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: of like this. And another one that I actually knew
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: about that popped back into my head around that time
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: was George Lynch almost joining Ozzy's band after Brad Gillis
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and Bernie Torme kind of finished that tour after Randy
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Rhodes passed away. And then I'm just kind of Googling
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: and I'm finding all these things. I'm like, there's something here.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: And for me, I'm a big sports fan. And so
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I equate it to like hot stove time for baseball
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: or whatever, where it's like, what would your team look
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: like with this guy on the mound or this, or
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: this running back being drafted in the first round, as
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: opposed to who.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Your team got.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, well, why can't rock and roll be
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: like that? You know, why can't we just sort of
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: kind of look into the looking glass and say, what
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: might it have been like, you know, what, what would
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the bands have been like? So that's, that's kind of
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the basis or the seed to how this whole thing started.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and replacement musician doesn't just affect the sound of
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a band. They affect the songwriting, the chemistry, the image,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: even business decisions. Which of those ripple effects became the
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: most interesting for you to explore?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, first of all, it's the chemistry of
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: the bands. And this kind of goes back to what
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I was telling you about with that interview with Vivian Campbell.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: And he said, based on talent alone, John Sykes should
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: have been the guy, right? I mean, even Vivian Campbell
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: can admit that. Def Leppard did something interesting in the
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: way he explained it.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: He said they didn't.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Line up a bunch of auditions and then just pick
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the guy that was the best.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: They did a two-week period.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Where they would go to dinner, they would hang out,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: they would go to the bar, they would go to movies,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: they'd go bowling, they'd obviously rehearse together. So it was
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: to see the chemistry with this this person we're bringing
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: into this, into this, onto this team, would they fit
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: in our locker room, so to speak? One of the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: chapters in the book is about Sykes. What would Def
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Leppard have been like with Sykes and the band? And, and,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I don't want to give away too much because I'd
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: like people to get the book, but I will tell
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: you that I didn't come at this from a fairy
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: tale like that everything ends up peaches and cream. You
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: have to understand that these are all people that are
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: trying to move the ball down the field musically and professionally.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: And if someone doesn't fit the mold of what they
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: need to.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Do that, You know, they got to go.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: So some of these alternate histories don't turn out so
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: well in the end, even though they're they sound great
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: on paper.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Like that would have been cool, but they don't all
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: work out so well. Sure. Yeah.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: John Sykes, for those who may not know, he was
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: a major creative force in Whitesnake.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, the 1987 self-titled Whitesnake album was pretty much
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: John Sykes and David Coverdale.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, it really, really was.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: And Blue Murder. was post-Whitesnake, which is one of the
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: best one-off albums.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Blue Murder, coulda, shoulda, woulda.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: What would have happened if it didn't come out right
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: around the time of Grunge? That was late 80s, early 90s,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and the second Blue Murder album just basically fell off
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: a cliff.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know they made a second one.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was called
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Looking for Trouble.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, because the first one has Jelly Roll.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. They put out a second one on Geffen.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: The first one had Tony Franklin and Carmen Apice, but
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: they weren't on the second album. They had already, because
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: that's a whole psych story. We can talk about it
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: another time.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Well, let's go back a bit to the first alternate
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: history album. in the book, Clapton joined the Beatles in
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: January of 69. And John Lennon really did suggest Clapton
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: after George Harrison walked out. How seriously should we take
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: that possibility? And what happens to the Beatles if Clapton
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: actually says yes?
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I think it's more of a footnote in history. In reality,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: it was a throwaway line. At that time, John Lennon
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: was kind of in the throes of his heroin addiction.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: He wasn't so bad that he was nodding off and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: totally incoherent.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: But it kind of numbed him, and he was just like, well,
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: if George leaves, if he's not back by Tuesday, let's
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: get Eric.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Because Clapton had already played the solo in My Guitar
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Gently Weeps, and he was best friends with George Harrison.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: And then I don't know if everyone is aware of
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the cross-pollination of Patti Boyd, who was George Harrison's wife. And,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: of course, the song Layla was about George Harrison's wife
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: and having the affair with her.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: The love triangle. The love triangle, yeah.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: So here's the gist of it.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Clapton....
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Clapton knew he was the guy. Between him and Hendrix,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: they were the two guys. And they had spray paint
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: on the walls in London. Clapton is God, that whole thing.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: So musically, he would have fit probably fine. But here's
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: where the rub is. George, having grown up with these
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: guys and being in the band from essentially day one,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: knew how to take, you know, things build up in
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: a relationship over time where you learn to kind of
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: push back at times or you could walk away and
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: you just blow someone off. Clapton, the idea was, if
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: he would have come into the Beatles, oh, it would
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: have been, you know, it would have been a rosy situation.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: You know, the honeymoon would have been short, though, most
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: likely because He would have wanted to be a pleaser,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: a people pleaser, which Eric Clapton, believe it or not,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: apparently grew up as a people pleaser. So he would
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: have wanted to fit in for all the right reasons.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, he.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Didn't.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, think.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: About it.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Every band he was in, even you're talking Blind Faith,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: where he was with Steve Winwood and Gingerbread, I mean,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: all of them, he was still one of the biggest
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: driving forces in the Beatles. He would have been second
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: or third banana there. So after a while, the guess
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: is he probably wouldn't have taken the instruction from Paul
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: and John quite as well. But he got, he would
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: have gotten, he, I mean, he was friends with all
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: those guys in real life.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: So this is not even a projection. And he loved Ringo.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: They were, they were buddies.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: They would have gotten along in that band situation, but
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: it would have eventually gotten pretty rough, fairly quick.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Cause the point you bring up is fascinating that, Clapton
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't save the Beatles because what was destroying the Beatles
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: was not a guitar problem, not a guitarist problem. I mean,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: it was that the Beatles were falling apart regardless. So
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: if you put Clapton in there, he could have been
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: just part of the end of the Beatles anyway.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't save the Beatles. I'm going to give
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: you a spoiler here. He didn't save the Beatles.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: What became the Beatles? Whatever happened.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what happened to those guys? They were a nice
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: little band for a while, right? They sold a couple
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: of records. But yeah, he wasn't the Superman to come
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: in and save the day.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: You mentioned the George Lynch story. This is another great one.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: After Randy Rhodes died, George really was considered for Ozzy's
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: band before Jakey Lee got the job. If he gets
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: that job, how dramatically does Bark at the Moon change
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: the album?
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Well, less commercial.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And the deal with George, I mean, you know, George
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: is still walking the face of the earth, doing his
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: thing and interacting with Don Dokken occasionally and playing shows
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: and such. But George, he wants to do.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Things the George Lynch way.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: And when you join a corporate entity, which essentially is
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: what the Ozzy Osbourne world became, especially with Sharon Arden
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: slash Sharon Osbourne, you got to.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: Play by their rules.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: And in the real story, I don't know how many
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: people know this, but he was inches away from becoming
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Jakey Lee, essentially. And I don't know how, I don't
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: think that would have turned out well in the long term.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I think what it was, was Jake, um, is a
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: much more.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Go along to get along kind of, uh, chill sort
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: of personality. And George is, as we can, we know
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: from his history and docking and beyond, he, um, he
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: can butt heads, you know, artistically with people. So, um,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: He wouldn't have butted heads with Ozzy because Ozzy always said, oh,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: it'll turn out and everything will be fine. The music's great.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Because he knew that Sharon was going to be the
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: bad cop. He never had to be the bad cop.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Ozzy never really had to be the bad cop, in essence,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: because Sharon was always around. Yeah.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I think if George Lynch joins, boy, we would have
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: some stories that are told and retold to this day
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: about some of that. probably would be some serious meltdowns
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: between George and Sharon.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Well, as those of us who followed Dawkins throughout the years,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: we know even with someone with an ego like Don Dawkins,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: George Lynch couldn't really get along with. And that Ozzie
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: situation is Dawkins times 100, really.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Boy, did.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Just to imagine what it would have sounded like with
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: him on guitar, it would be.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have been definitely darker. Yes. Yeah, Bark
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: of the Moon essentially would have been a less commercial
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: album than what it turned out to be.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: And just because... Lynch is a little.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Bit, I mean, that whole era of shredding, there's different
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: levels of it and different, there's still different styles of it.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: And Jakey Lee and George Lynch are not in the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: same shred category, I guess, for lack of a better term.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: So I think that record would have been darker and
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: less commercial with George Lynch writing and recording it.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Mike Garam is the author of Near Miss, Alternate Histories
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: of Rock's Great Personnel Decisions, Slash in Poison. Now, this
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: is another one that's fascinating, and this could have happened.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: He really did audition for the band. How close did
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: he come to getting that gig? And what happens when
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: you put his blues-based Aerosmith, Zeppelin, kind of Stones influence
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: playing into the songs that became, look what the cat
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: dragged in, which is kind of punkish.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: Let's state the obvious at this point.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: CC DeVille was and is perfect for Poison. The band,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the look, the music, they nailed it. And obviously they
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: had an incredible run. Slash wouldn't have fit in very
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: well by comparison. Now, back then, the reason why this
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: even had the potential to happen is because Slash was
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: a young guy and he was looking for a stepping
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: stone opportunity to really kind of make his bones and
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: start to kind of build his career. So this opportunity
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: was available.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: But really what.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: It comes down to is stylistically important. it just, the
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: fit is not there. I mean, just the way you
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: explained it is perfect. Could this have happened? This is
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: one of those that I took a few liberties with
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: because it wasn't that close to happening, but he did
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: audition and he was considered and he did give it
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: a thought. But I would tell you, talking about the
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: George Lynch situation, that almost happened. And the Sykes thing,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: that we talked about almost happened too. So this one's
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit more of a fun story, but yeah,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Slash was not built for Poison and vice versa.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: What's interesting with C.C. DeVille, you're right. He was the
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: perfect fit for the band. Later years after his falling
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: out with Brett, they brought in Richie Cotsen and Blue
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Saraceno from a technical aspect. I suppose better than CC.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not a guitarist, but regardless, it just
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: didn't work. And I liked it. It was cool. It
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: was different. They were doing some different things, but CC
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: DeVille is the guy, you know, talk dirty to me.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, that.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Well, so that, and that's part of what I talk
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: about is, you know, these, these alternate histories or near misses,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: they also have, They changed the history of rock and roll,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: if they were really to.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Happen, as we know it.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: And one of the situations with this Poison and CeCe
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: DeVille situation in Slash is that CeCe DeVille brought the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: song Talk Dirty to Me to the band. So without
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: CeCe DeVille in Poison, Talk Dirty to Me is not
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: a song.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: That appears on What the Cat Dragged In. It's not there.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: And that's their calling card from, from the beginning is
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: that song. It's just wouldn't exist. I can't see, I mean,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I can't see a slash writing, you know, talk dirty
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Not at all.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: It is interesting though, that whole sunset strip scene, it was,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: it was such a, an incestuous. It really was because
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: everybody knew everybody. And who was it? Somebody was saying,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it, maybe it was, it might've
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: been Steven Pearcy, but you know, but everybody, was playing
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: in everybody's band at one point or another, whether it
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: was just for one night or no auditioning or whatever,
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: you know, it just seems that way.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: They're all right. You know, they're all in that same area.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Richie Sambora in Kiss, he auditioned for Kiss in 1983
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: and his meeting with Jon Bon Jovi happened within weeks
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: of that. Is this one of the book's greatest sliding
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: door moments where one decision could have dramatically changed two
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: major bands?
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could have, um, Yeah, the way I look
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: at it, and if you think of it from a
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: perspective of Kiss's music, Ace Frehley was sort of more
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: of a blues-based player, and then they went to Vinnie Vincent,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: and Vinnie's more of a technical kind of shredder guy
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: and really didn't fit the 70s era of Kiss material
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: at all. But if you think about it, Richie Sambora
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: falls more in line technically. He's kind of the bridge
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: between Ace Frehley.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: And what Vinnie Vincent can do.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: He's not a shredder by any stretch, but he's definitely
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: a better technical player than Ace, but he fits the
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Kiss music better than Vinnie Vincent would have.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: So it would have definitely helped things.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Now, one of the things I talk about is at
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the point that– Sambora would have joined KISS is right
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: before they recorded Lick It Up.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: And of course, that's when they took the makeup off.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: So my version of Kiss with Richie Sambora, I don't
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: tell the story of him wearing makeup at all. But
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: what's interesting to note is, you know, pretty good looking guy, right?
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: You look at the Lick It Up album cover, you
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: see Eric Carr, Paul Stanley, Gene Simmons, and Vinnie Vincent.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And which of those looks, one of those doesn't fit
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: with the other. And to me, it's always Vinnie Vincent.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I look at him and go, that dude, he does
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: not fit in this picture. Now, Gene's no Adonis, but
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: it's Gene Simmons.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: So, you know, you know who he is.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Now, imagine Richie Sambora standing on that album, looking out
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: at you on that album cover.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: You're like, well, that dude, that dude looks like a
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: rock star right there.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: And so I also talk about some of the jealousy
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: that might have, kind of crept into the scenario when
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: you got this young, good-looking guy joining KISS, and all
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, maybe the press wants to take more
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: photos of him and interview him individually and find out
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: his story. So, you know, Paul and Gene, like I
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: talked about with Ozzy, and that being a corporation, KISS
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: most certainly was the Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley show.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: And anything that tried to subvert that was not going
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: to last very long. No.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: And you described Kiss as potentially the biggest opportunity available
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to Richie, but Bon Jovi as the right opportunity.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, what's the difference?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Richie joining Kiss is a stepping stone thing because he's
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: going from being basically playing the club circuit. I can't
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: remember the name of the band. He was in a band.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: He was in a band that was signed to a
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: major label for some reason.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Richie? One of your.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of your viewers will see it and go, oh,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I know, and they'll say the name.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: But I can't think of it off the top of
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: my head.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Let's see if I can find it here.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll probably be able to look it up pretty
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: quick or quicker than I would. But he was in
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: a band. I think it was signed. It was just
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: signed to a major label. Didn't last very long. And
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the thing about Richie.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, here we go. Ready?
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Well, it looks like you played in a few of them.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Message and the band Mercy.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Message. Message, that was the band. Message, okay. Yeah, yeah. But,
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: you know, you got to think about it this way.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Richie was also a songwriter and he was never going
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: to get the opportunity to get songwriting credits in Kiss
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: with Paul and Gene running the show.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: So for him, that opportunity.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Was more of, well, I'm going to go to the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: big time immediately and I'm going to become an equal
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: partner and be a creative partner in this worldwide band.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: And as we know, that doesn't really happen. But the
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: better option was working with Jon Bon Jovi and being
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: basically his musical partner. And we all know how that
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: turned out success-wise, even though right now it's... Yeah, we're
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: way past that point. But yeah, so it would have
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: been a great opportunity for him to get to a
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: top level. And, you know, for some of these guys,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: even if you go back to Randy Rhodes, I've read
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: interviews that basically said Randy Rhodes was not going to
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: be in the Blizzard of Oz long term. you know,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: he had other things he wanted to do. Unfortunately, his
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: life was cut short, but he probably wouldn't have, he
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: probably would have been in another couple of an album
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: or two before he would have gone off and done whatever.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Classical.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: That was, yeah, that was Kevin Dubrow, the singer of
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Quiet Riot. Just way back in my radio days, I
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: interviewed him and he said that he believes that Randy
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: would have done a classical album.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: There you go. That makes perfect sense.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so I don't think, I think, Richie even
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: long-term and kiss wouldn't have been a long-term and kiss,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you know, um, he would have, he would have gone
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: off and done something else. And that's something else where he,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: he and John Bon Jovi would have found each other. Um,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: and it would have sped up the process, um, of
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: him leaving kiss.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I've said it before. New Jersey's their best album. I know.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I know. They're both huge sellers, but I just love
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: the non singles on there as much as the singles.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: And here's a little bit of Bon Jovi trivia, too.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: In that message, it featured future Bon Jovi bassist Alec
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: John Such.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: There you go. And that's why I think I remembered.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I was like, they knew each other from somewhere else.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: And there you go. You just nailed it. Yeah.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: After Ronnie James Deal left Black Sabbath, David Coverdale was
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: seriously considered before Ian Gillen got the job.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Tony Iommi died.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Wanted Coverdale because he looked at it as an opportunity
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: to kind of seamlessly bring in someone of name quality
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: who could sing that blues-based stuff, but also could sing up.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: And they could not only create new music, which if
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Coverdale would have joined Black Sabbath, the album they would
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: have created essentially became Born Again, which was the one
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Ian Gillen album that they put out.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Now, Coverdale had he had been in Deep Purple, but
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: didn't he? He had already launched Whitesnake by then.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: And the reality of the situation is that's why he
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: never joined. That's why he never joined Sabbath. He thought
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: about it for a short period of time because but
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Whitesnake was a European band, but they couldn't get arrested
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: in the States at that time.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: And so I can.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: See why you would consider it, because maybe he's thinking
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Whitesnake is not going to work out.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: But he decided, you know what? I've got an opportunity.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I want to make a go of it. If I
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: can break, break white snake.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: In the U S we're going to be huge.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Now, clearly that worked out the way it worked out
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: very well for him. And, you know, he's, That 1987
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: album in and of itself, even if they never recorded
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: one more note past that, he's a very wealthy man
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: just off that alone. But the Coverdale thing was a
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: real thought. What Tony Iommi was trying to do was
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: not churn through another singer, but they wanted someone that
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: could command the stage, had the presence and the name recognition.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Sabbath ended up eventually... bringing Tony Martin on as their
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: lead singer. And while Tony Martin's a great singer, but
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: he's not putting butts in seats and he's not really
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: selling records because his name recognition is almost nil. Or
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Coverdale would have been more Dio-like in that it would
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: have been, oh, Deep Purple and Whitesnake, Coverdale.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: All right, I got to hear this. I got to
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: go see them.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we know Coverdale worked with Jimmy Page in the 90s.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Page is part of this book, XYZ. really happened
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: jimmy page chris squire and alan white rehearsed together after
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: led zeppelin ended after the death of john bonham robert
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: plant is the great what if you see plants refusal
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: as a good decision for him but could his saying
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: yes have changed jimmy page's entire post zeppelin.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Life yeah i i think i love zeppelin i love
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: plant page i i i'm a sucker for all that
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: stuff but uh Jimmy Page, unfortunately, has spent so many
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: years trying to get Robert Plant back. And Robert's got
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: his own artistic vision. I give him credit. He does
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: his thing. He doesn't want to go back and rehash that.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: And by the way, for people watching and listening to this,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: if you know nothing about this XYZ project, go on
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: YouTube and look up Jimmy Page XYZ Project. Because XYZ,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: for those that don't know, the name came from X, Yes,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: and Zeppelin. Because the band would have essentially been, in
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: my book, it would have been Robert Plant, Jimmy Page,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Chris Squire, the bass player from Yes, and Alan White,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: the drummer from Yes.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: In essence, Plant never joined.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: That group because he was already off deciding, He wanted
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: to do his own thing. And also, Jimmy was already
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: a little deep into his heroin thing. And I think
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Plant wanted to stay away. He didn't know how things
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: were going to go.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: But if you.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Go online and listen to any of that XYZ stuff,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Chris Squire is the singer in all those demos. And
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: he sounds great.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: They went on to form Asia after that, when that
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: fell apart, I think.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: No.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: That whole time period, I still... And I've had authors
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: on to break this down for me, but still, it's
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: so crazy. There's Asia. There's the Yes 90125 era.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: It's all.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So Asia did have a member of Yes. Actually, a
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: couple of members of Yes. It had Jeff Downs on
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: keyboard and Steve Howell.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: But then John Whetton, the singer and bass player, he
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: was in King Crimson and UK.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: And then who's the drummer? Oh, Carl Palmer from Emerson
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Lake and Palmer. So yeah, when Yes broke up in 80, yeah,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Chris Squire and Alan White were looking to put together
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: another project.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Then they went back to the Yes project, I think
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: is what happened eventually.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah. No pun intended.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Yes. What ended up happening is when they.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: It.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Couldn't it couldn't get off the ground because they really
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: it just kind of it just sort of fizzled is
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: really what ended up happening. They didn't have a real
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: lead singer. And because of that, it just sort of fizzled.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: On top of the fact that Paige was not really
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: in a good place health-wise and psychologically. And the end
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: of the day, it just sort of fizzled. And then
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Chris Squire and Alan White end up looking for someone
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: else to join up with. And that ends up being
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Trevor Rabin. And that band was called Cinema. Before John
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Anderson joined and it became yes.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Which owner of a lonely heart was written around that time.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: By Trevor. That's Trevor Raven.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: That was on his solo demo that he was shopping around.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: And that's how he got hooked up with Squire and
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: white was through that.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: But you said X, Y, Z probably would have, I
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: don't know. They would maybe have had a, a quick
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: burst in the beginning, but running headlong into MTV, they
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: may not have, belonged?
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: They wouldn't have belonged. No, they wouldn't, they wouldn't have belonged.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, uh, playing what they were playing.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: And if you, if you listen to some of the demos,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: it was very sort of, it was a combo between
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Zeppelin and yes, it was very kind of proggy and bluesy. Uh,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and it just wasn't going to fit with the MTV era, um,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: where they're looking for people that good looking people on camera, uh, dancing,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: shaking their butts to, to the music that was not
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: going to be that group of musicians. So yeah, it
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: wasn't going to last. That was going to cut things short.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Eventually as the MTV era would have kind of brought
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: the end of the XYZ project.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Decades later, Paige faced almost the same problem. Paige, John
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Paul Jones, and Jason Bonham really did rehearse with Miles
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Kennedy of Alter Bridge fame. Also in Slash's band, And
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: he did rehearse after Plant, again, declined to continue following
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: that O2 show. From what Kennedy has said, how close
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: did this actually come to becoming a band?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: It wasn't that close because at the end of the day,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Miles Kennedy knew it probably wouldn't last long. And I
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: think his feel on things was, you Look, Miles Kennedy
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: is a jack of all trades, and he's got multiple
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: bands going right now, but he wasn't going to be
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: able to juggle.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: That would have been.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: His home, being in Zeppelin.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: And I'll give this away. They wouldn't have called themselves Zeppelin.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: If you read the book, you'll figure out what they
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: would have been called, and it's the most ridiculous name.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: But The name wouldn't have been Led Zeppelin, but it
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: would have been Jason Bonham. It would have been John
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Paul Jones, Jimmy Page, and Miles Kennedy. I would have
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: loved to have heard what that music would have sounded like.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: I really would have.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Because I think Miles Kennedy could have really added something
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: because he's not only a great singer, he's a great
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: guitar player.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: He plays varied types.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Of music and styles of music, and he could have
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: helped compositionally too. So It would have been really interesting.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: That's one I would have really loved to have seen
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: how it would have worked out.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a couple other names thrown around there.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Sammy Hagar and Steven Tyler were also thrown into that mix.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I said, Jimmy, look, and here's the thing,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Jimmy always wanted to be in a band.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: He wanted to continue being in a band.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it, the Plant Page thing,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the Coverdale Page thing, And then, of course, I don't
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: know for those of you who are Black Crows fans,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: but that Live at the Greek album with Jimmy Page
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: and the Black Crows is fantastic.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, it seemed like he was happy just being
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: in that band.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Once again, another one of those situations.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Would have loved to have heard what the Black Crows
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: with Jimmy Page recording an album of originals would have
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: been like.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Would have been awesome.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I think it would have been awesome. I'm a YouTube fanatic.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: So go on and watch some of the page with
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Black Crows. I mean, if you're into page, Zeppelin, The Crows,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: it was great.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: And I remember that put the Black Crows back on
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: the map again.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: It did. It did. Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a question, if you don't mind.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Have you read the Steve Gorman Black Crows book?
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: No, I have not read it. I have not read it. OK,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I'd like.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: To check that one out.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: There's a there's a chapter on the whole Jimmy Page
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Black Crowes thing. And he gives some interesting insights into
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: that whole situation, which I find fascinating and clearly.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, check that out.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we I did an episode recently on Jeff Beck
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: and we're talking with the authors about Jeff Beck possibly
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: replacing Mick Taylor in the Stones after Mick was out.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: That never happened. A Rory Gallagher. was considered for that gig, too.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: So what could he have brought to the Stones that
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: neither Taylor nor eventually Ronnie Wood brought and would becoming
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: a Rolling Stone have elevated his legacy? Or would it
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: have cost him part of what made him so special?
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Rory Gallagher, for those that are not, this
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: one's a little bit of a deeper dive because not
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: most people don't know. Well, I shouldn't say that. If
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: they're watching or listening to your podcast, they probably know
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: the name Rory Gallagher, but may not know who he
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: was and what he was all about. But he's literally
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: a saint in Ireland. He's got a statue, and he
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: was an amazing blues rock guitarist. He was in a
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: band called Taste, and then he did solo stuff.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: And he would have fit, actually. He would have been
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: a great....
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: He would have been a great stepping stone from Mick Taylor.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I think he would have been a better fit musically
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: than Ronnie Wood ended up being. But what Ronnie Wood
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: does is Ronnie Wood does what needs to be done
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: in bands. And there's something to be said for that.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's still with them. all these years later.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Rory Gallagher and Keith Richards were kind of cut from
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: the same cloth. The music they liked, the way that
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: they played. Rory Gallagher was a much more fiery player.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I think it would have lent itself to some more
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: exciting mid to late 70s albums with the Stones. But ultimately,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: he was all about playing on stage, sweating, wearing plaid shirts.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: He was, he was, he was a workman like guy.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: He wasn't, he wasn't going to fit the steel wheels
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: era stones.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Rory Gallagher's brother just put a book out. Donal, I
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: think is the pronunciation of his brother.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: The book is called edged in blue, a rock and
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: roll odyssey with Rory Gallagher. So that, Release date is
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: September 25th. So actually it's not out yet, but it's
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: coming out soon.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: So people should read something about that.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to finish now by throwing five. What ifs
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: at you here?
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: In one or two sentences, tell me how things change.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: If these scenarios actually happened, this is the big one.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: What if Pete Best remained a Beatle?
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good one.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: If Pete Best would have remained a Beatle, you know,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: it's so interesting because I never took Pete Best from
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: what little we know of him and have seen interviews
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: as quite the personality of Ringo. And Ringo did bring
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: more than just being a drummer and a timekeeper to
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: the Beatles. He was a personality. And of course, he sang,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: you know, Octopus's Garden and Rock... I can't remember some.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: Of the others.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Yellow Submarine.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: Yellow Submarine. There you go.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: So I don't think necessarily we get that from Pete Best.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: So I think, I mean.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: The right person was in the band in Ringo. So
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I don't think we have quite the personality. It's a
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: little bit of a different band. But in the end,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know that he saves the Beatles in the
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: end either, because it really wasn't Ringo's show and certainly
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been Pete Best's either.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: So do you think they would be the Beatles that
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: we know today as the most famous rock and roll
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: band of all time?
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: I think that.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: If you put any drummer into the Beatles, the Beatles
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: were more so McCartney, Lennon, and I mean, the quiet one,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: George Harrison, to me, was underrated for so long. It
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: was really those three guys. So I don't think it
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: changes the band much. incredibly much, but it does change them.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Obviously it's different.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: So I still think they put out the albums they
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: put out, uh, just without, uh, Octopus's Garden and Yellow
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Submarine maybe.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: All right. Here's a great one. What if Brian Jones
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: survived and remained a Rolling Stone?
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I think he ends up leaving at some point, um,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: because I think they take that turn towards the, the
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: blues a little bit harder and, uh, Uh, I, I,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: with Brian Jones, I think I feel a little bit
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: more of the psychedelia, uh, psychedelic aspect of the stones
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: was the, the Brian Jones side of things.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: And I think he would have.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Wanted to hang on to that a little bit longer
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: i don't think he would have been with the stones
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: by the time they got into the 70s okay i
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: think they would have moved on to someone else who
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: would have been i don't know maybe it would have
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: been eric clapton i don't know right i don't know
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: i don't know no probably not.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Do you think much like same question like with the
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: beatles do they still become the rolling stones that we
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: know of today Yes.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah. Because it's, it's the glimmer twins. It's Keith
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: and Mick.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: They would have, they would have ended up wrestling control
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: over the decision-making creative decisions. Cause that's what the problem
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: was in the, in the beginning. He wasn't happy. Brian
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Jones wasn't happy with the direction they were going in.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: And, and I think maybe Mick Taylor joins the stones
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit earlier.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: You know, or around, no, no, a little later, but
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: not much later. That's what I meant to say. Sorry.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: What if Sammy Hagar never joined Van Halen?
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: I think Ed and Al at least stay together.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Even if Anthony gets kicked to the curb, um, Because
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: we kind of know the history of that band with
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Michael and how he was sort of treated long term.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: So I think that they would have found a replacement
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: singer that would have eventually still kept the name Van Halen.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Why not?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: But, you know, would it have been Patti Smythe? Would
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: it have been Sass Jordan? Would it have been Eric Martin?
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: You know your Van Halen history. I like it.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: I know a few names, yeah.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: All three of those names, yeah.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Well, we know who it was, and it wasn't Mitch
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: Molloy because that happened.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: That was later, yeah. Daryl Hall, that was the story.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Daryl Hall in passing. Eddie was, I think at that point,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Eddie was just going out. you know, it's a lot
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: of these parties and have a good time. And he
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: had a few drinks and I mean, he would just
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: kind of say, Hey, you got to come over and jam,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: you know? And then that, that has now become everybody
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: saying like Steve Perry, I think said he asked Steve
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Perry to come over and jam with him. But, but anyway, yeah.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: So Sammy doesn't join. My theory is that whoever ends
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: up in that band, it doesn't have the magic that
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: they have with Sammy or the commercial success. And Dave
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: is back before the end of the decade.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting. So you have him coming, you have
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: him coming back earlier. Okay.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: By like 88, 89.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: So, so do you have in your, in your scenario,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: do you still, you still have Dave leaving after the
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: end of 1984 and doing a solo thing and falling
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: apart and going, or he just decides to go back
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: kind of thing.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think he does eat him and smile. Skyscraper
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: never even happens because at this point, the wheels are
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: falling off for van halen and dave is this i
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: think actually in the reality is i think this is
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: what his thought was anyway like whoever they get to
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: replace me it's not going to go far and i'll
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: be back in a couple years because he's dave yeah
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: he's his name and who could blame him i mean
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: it was they were huge when he was fronting the
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: band so i think that that's what have happened would
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: have happened and that would have been a huge huge
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: tour you know, if he came back in like 88,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: 89 after a hiatus, you know, certainly even bigger than
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: it would have been in 96. But yeah. How about
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: what if Bon Scott had lived? Does the next album
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: become Back in Black? And this is huge success that
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Well, a lot of the, a lot of the music
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: that was written by the, the young brothers for Back
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: in Black was written around the time that they were
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: touring for Highway to Hell. So, some of that music
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: would have remained the same. Obviously the lyrical content would
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: have been different and it wouldn't have been, but would
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: it have?
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Or would it have because the rumors are that, you know,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: some of the lyrics in there are Bon Scott's lyrics.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Really? You know what?
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: I have not heard that. Interesting. Okay.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I've been asked this question before, so here's what
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you how it ends. It still ends with
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Bon Scott not being in ACDC by the mid-' 80s. Is
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: it because he eventually dies anyway? Because the guy was
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: on a crash course for disaster with alcohol anyway, so
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: either he's going to be physically unable to, they're going
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: to have to kick him to the curb or he dies, or...
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Or he ends up leaving because my thought is by
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: the time they get to the mid-80s, they start putting
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: out Fly on the Wall and Who Made Who and
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: all that stuff that he would be like, that's not
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: what this band is.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be involved in any of this.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: And he goes off and does his own thing.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: I think if he lives creatively, he's.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Gone by the mid-80s anyway. And I don't know who
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: comes in form. I don't know that. Maybe it's Brian
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Johnson anyway.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: And the last one, what if John Bonham had lived?
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: I've always wondered what Zeppelin would have been like in
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: the eighties during the MTV era.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I, yeah, that's a, that's a great one.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: If John Bonham would have lived, I think there's a
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: few more albums, but I also think that, that that's
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: a band that ends up getting broken up by the
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: MTV wave just because that's not what they signed up for. Um,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they, if they break up completely
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: or maybe some of the members leave, um, or it
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: morphs into another band, but I think, but I think they,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: they put out two more Zeppelin real Zeppelin albums.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: And then the new wave and then, you know, the Duran.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Duran's of the world and all right, all that kind
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: of chased some of the, what we would consider the
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: dinosaurs of the previous era.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: Um, away.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's, Look, you even had the firm with
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Paul Rogers and Jimmy Page. And as great as that
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: first firm album was, you know, it just kind of
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: didn't go anywhere. So I sort of think that music
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: was kind of not, it was going to lose its
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: luster with a new generation.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Similar to the Van Halen story. You know, I think
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: what have happened is after that MTV era settles down
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: a little bit, get to the early 90s, maybe somewhere
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: around there, we have Plant. coming back because bonham's alive
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: in this scenario that uh the band gets back together
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: so they kind of fizzle out during the mtv era
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: or maybe they break up and say let's do our
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: thing but then they come back together again now plant
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: i think would have done that because he loved john
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: bonham and he basically said with a without john bonham
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: there is no zeppelin but with.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Right because they were in the band of joy together
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: i mean they're they were they were they were buddies
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: from from the very beginning.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that makes sense.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Was there a scenario that did make your book that
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: almost did?
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: No, but since I've thought about maybe there's another one
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: of these down the line.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: And actually the book.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: That I might write down the line is the book
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: that's more along the lines of what we're discussing right now.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: What would have happened if so-and-so would have lived? What
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: would have happened if Ronnie, you know, if the, the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Skynyrd airplane crash doesn't happen, what happens there.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: You know, stuff like that. So I think that's more
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: of where I would be going next, but, uh.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: No, I, I sort of started doing these chapters just
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: one at a time. And after about the fourth chapter, um, uh,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: fourth story, I said, well, this could be a book, um,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: as I'm going through the list of all of these
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: different situations. And I came up with 11 chapters and
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: 11 different stories, but it didn't really save anything. There
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: was nothing in the tank additionally. There's even a chapter
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: of what Metallica would have been like if Les Claypool
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: from Primus would have joined as opposed to Robert Trujillo. So,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like there's more what-if stories out there.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: I just haven't flagged them down, honestly. So no, not really.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you the one that occurred to me just recently,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: because I did an episode on this great book on,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: on the success of touch of gray by the grateful dead.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: And it never really clicked in my head that the
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: resurgence of the nineties jam scene was because of touch
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: of gray success. Because by that, by 1987, the jam
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: had pretty much had been dead and buried and you know,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: bands like the almond brothers and all that, you know,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: even the dead themselves doing okay. But all of a
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: sudden that song became a success and all of those,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: bands followed like black crows you could put in that
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: in that.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Scene black crows but yeah i mean black crows blues
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: traveler yeah yeah big head todd and the monster you
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: know you can go there's a there's a but yeah
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: i mean well the horde tour was essentially um a
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: rolling deadhead tour essentially so.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: If touch of gray never happened does does that whole
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: scene happen right see we could go on we could.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I i love this stuff it's right it's it's the
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: ultimate I always talk about we go down a rabbit hole.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: If you're going on any social media, you go down
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: the rabbit hole. This is the rabbit hole I enjoy
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: going down is having these conversations with And my friends,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: we always talk about stuff like that. It's interesting to just,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: what if to death? I mean, we do it for
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: sports and rock and roll, and it wastes a lot
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: of time, but it's also time well spent, is the
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: way I look at it.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: What if Rush went on without Neil Peart? Oh, wait
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: a minute, they have.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's amazing.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Scratch that.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Well, okay.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: He's got his Rush shirt on, folks, who are just
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: listening and not watching.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: So mind if I ask you this question? Yeah. I
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: got a question for you.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: So does from the but i'm going to see this
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: in november um they're coming to my neck of the
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: woods so i'll.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Be yeah yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna go see him
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: here in connecticut yeah.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah so i feel like things are going so well
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: that it's going to lend itself to new material.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's going to be a new album.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's just like a couple songs
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: that they release, you know, that, you know, jams that
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: turn into songs, but what, I mean, do you see
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Rush material without Neil Peart?
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: No.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: That's the problem lyrically and, and, and Neil's contributions musically.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I just don't see it happen. I've spoken with a
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: couple authors who are really big Rush historians and, and
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: they both said that they don't see it happening.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: So.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah because he was such a facilitator for that for
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: that music and um i just don't see and and
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: the lyrics i mean maybe if they do um i
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: guess you know call it rush maybe they do it
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: under a different name i don't know but um i
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: think what they have right now is set up perfectly
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: to be able to play all those songs that they
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: did create with neil um and john rutzy on the
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: first album technically but I just don't see it, but Hey,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: who knows? You don't know because, because the, the new
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: drummer that they have she, she could be, we don't
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: know what her songwriting skills are like. Maybe she's got
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: some ideas that she can bounce off of, Getty and Alex, right?
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: Well, that's true. That's true. And I almost wonder....
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Anika Niles.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Anika Niles. Yeah, I almost wonder, too. I know
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: we're going off on a tangent, but this is... This
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: is what if. This is what this lends itself to.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I wonder if there are lyrics or poems or poetry
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: that Neil Peart wrote that were never.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Never part of the songwriting process that they might kind
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: of like what the Beatles did with Free as a
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Bird where they took the John Lennon pre-recorded and they
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: turned it into a song or Queen.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Or Freddie they did add some stuff that's right but
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: you wonder lyrically if there's content somewhere there from Neil
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: that they can use to create new songs I don't
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: know that'd be cool I'd definitely be open to it.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: Be open to it.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Great job on the book, man. It's so well written
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: and the way it's laid out. And you can get
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: this on, I have the Kindle version. So if you
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: go to Amazon, I believe it's, is it a hardcover
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: and Kindle version?
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: It's a paperback and Kindle version through Amazon. Yeah, you
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: can order directly through Amazon and they'll ship it to you.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: It's not being, I was never, bottom line is I
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: was never envisioning myself to be an author. This became
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: like a passion project. So I self-published it. And so
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: I published it through Amazon. And that's the only place
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: you can get it on Amazon through the Kindle reader
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: or the paperback version.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Near Miss Alternate Histories of Rock's Great Personnel Decisions. Mike, thanks.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: This is great. Yeah, I told you I had caught
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: you on YouTube talking about Van Halen and David Lee
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Roth one time. And then all of a sudden, I
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: think either you emailed me or I emailed you. But
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hey.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I emailed you.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you. I just saw you on YouTube.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And by the way, do you mind if I
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: plug my YouTube channel?
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, please do.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: It's, uh, it's called backstage pass all excess E X
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: C E S S backstage pass all excess. And I
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: do all kinds of anything from the seventies to, to
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: the late nineties rock kind of behind the scenes, uh,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: weird stories. I started also doing like a album, classic
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: album showdown, um, with, with two albums from the same
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: band back to back. And, going against each other. So
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I do fun stuff like that. So yeah, people can
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: find me on YouTube.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: On YouTube, great channel. What about social media? Do you
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: have any social media?
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: No, I don't. No, I really don't.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've got my YouTube channel. And yeah, I
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: don't spend much time on the other socials. I don't
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: promote myself that way. And that's why I appreciated the
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: opportunity to come talk to you about my book on
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: your show.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm not.
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: I'm a savvy guy, but I don't want to go
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: down all those avenues. It's not for me.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: I'll put the YouTube link on the show notes. And
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I believe YouTube, they can reach you through there, right?
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: I think there's a contact.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yes, they can.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: And in the description box of every one of my videos,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: I have the link to my book in there as well.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: So people can find it that way.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: All right. Mike Garam. Thanks, Mike.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: Thanks, Eric. I appreciate it.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: It's in the books.