Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Spurned Woman POISONS IN-LAWS DEAD with Fancy 'Home Made' BEEF WELLINGTON

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Spurned Woman POISONS IN-LAWS DEAD with Fancy 'Home Made' BEEF WELLINGTON · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease. How does a woman go
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: from a life of privilege after she inherits wealth and
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: property to being questioned regarding a mushroom lunch?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, let that sink him.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: A woman with vast wealth and property now is being
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: questioned about a mushroom lunch.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Mushrooms.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I can take him or leave them, don't love them,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: don't hate him, but I'm looking at them now completely
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: differently after a fatal mushroom lunch. I Nancy Grace, this.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Is Crime Stories.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: and on Serious XM one eleven.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: First of all, who is she? Who is the mushroom chef?
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Listen to this?
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Aaron and her sisters signed when grow up in the
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: suburbs with their parents, Heather and Aidan Scudder. Her father's
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: a government worker and her mother doctor Heatherscudder, became a
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: university lecturer in nineteenth century literature. As an adult, Aaron
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Scudder takes an air traffic control course and begins work
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: at a local airport, coworkers saying she's a bit of
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: a genius as an air traffic controller. A few years later,
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Aaron Mary Simon Patterson, the two met in college and
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: have two children, a son and a daughter. The Pattersons
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: stay married a few years, but differences lead to a divorce.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: It appears to be an amiable one, appears.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: To be an amiable one, and in fact, by all
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: accounts it is they co parent the children. A wealthy
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: mother of two, Aaron Patterson led a life of privilege.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: So how did that take a u turn? And where
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: did all the money come from? Listen?
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: When Aaron Patterson's parents die, she inherits enough money to
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: purchase several local properties outright, with no mortgages to pay.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: She builds a multimillion dollar property portfolio. The Daily Mail
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: refers to her as a wealthy heiress. The money allows
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: her to live without having to work a steady job
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: and gives her time to be with her two children.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, that sounds good to me. Who gets to have
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: all that money and property without working a steady job?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I like the part about being with the children all
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the time. But how is she perceived to be a chef?
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: A mushroom chef? And what happened to that beef Wellington.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I've got a lot of questions, and I'm sure so
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: do the police and so do family members of Gil Patterson,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Don Patterson, Heather Wilkinson, Ian Patterson and Simon Patterson. I
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: bet they'd like to know all the answers. How did
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: we get that beef Wellington lunch?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Listen?
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson and her husband Simon are separated but maintain
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: a good relationship. Could there be a reconciliation at hand?
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Patterson puts together a brunch with her estranged husband, her
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: in laws, her mother in law's sister, and her pastor
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: husband to discuss the relationship. Eric Patterson, according to The
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: Daily Mail, believes the family would side with her in
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: trying to convince Simon to get back together.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, joining me an all star panel, including a mycologist,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the author of Fungi Pedia, a brief compendium of mushroom
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: lare You can find him at Lawrencemilman dot com. But
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: first to Ash Short, senior editor the Daily Wire, Ash,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us absolutely, Ash, question, I
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: want to hear about Aaron Patterson. I want to hear
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: who is she, what kind of chef is she? Why
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the interest in mushrooms?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: And who's dad?
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: Well, Aaron Patterson, I mean apparently she regularly cooked and
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: you know, if you're making beef wellington, I mean, that's
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: not exactly an easy ditch, so you know she had
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: to have had some experience making.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: That well hold on, as short, there's always a first time.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: My husband gave me, at my request by me, the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: entire Julie Child cookbook collection, and I bravely waded into it.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I started with cocoa vance. So there's a first time
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: for everything, whether you're good at it or not.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: So maybe this was her first time. I mean I
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: would assume that she had, you know, made this before.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: If you're going to try and make this dinner or
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: this lunch for people that you're trying to reconcile with
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: their son, you know, I wouldn't use that for the
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: time to experiment in days three people. That means Aaron
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Peter Patterson's ex in laws, Gail and Gon died along
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: with Gail's sister Heather. They died, and then I in
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: the aunt in law's husband. He was released some weeks later,
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: finally recovering enough to be released from the hospital.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: So let me understand something ashshort Daily wire dot Com.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson wanted to get back with Simon now you
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: know it's sirius when you call the preacher and you
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: get the enlist the preacher to try to work reconciliation.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: So the whole family, all of the in laws, the sister,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: the love object, her ex husband, and the preacher. Everybody's
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: going to get together and they're all over for lunch.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So as short the husband, and this is all to
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: get him back on board with reconciliation.
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: The husband can't make it, right, he backed out at
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: the last minute.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, that's a big difference, and can't make it
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: and was a no show? Backed out? So which one
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: is it?
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Did he just say yeah, I'm not going or did
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: something happen and he could not make it?
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: Something happened and he couldn't he backed out at the
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: last minute. Okay, I'm not exactly sure what it is.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, does anybody on the panel actually know what a
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: beef Wellington is?
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Well, I've got to go to Lawrence Milman on this,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: my cologist Lawrence Milman, author of funny Pedia, a brief
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: compendium of mushroom lore.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know how brief it is, Lawrence. What's a
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: beef Willington? You do have to have mushrooms.
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm an authority on mushrooms, but not on beef Wellington's.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: So you've just lost all credibility.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Milman, I'm sorry if you don't know about every mushrooms.
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: Sure there's no mushroom named beef.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Well I love beef Wellington. Was that Robin Drake? Okay,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: you're now the Wellington expert? Drake, you're in middling. You're
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: out with me? Is Robin Drake joining us?
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: Robin is so I'm a good company.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Behavior expert. Former FBI special agent. Now listen to this
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: chief of the FBI counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. As
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: much as I scream how much I hate the Feds,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: even though I was a FED for three years, they
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: are incredible at the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: He's author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: manual for behavior prediction, and you can find them at
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: peopleformula dot com.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Robin Drake, I believe.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: In addition to all that, that was you claiming you
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: like beef Wellington.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: You want to describe what it is or do I
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: have to tell it?
• 8:00
  Speaker 6: So I'll do the best I can because I'm not
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: a foody connoisseur. But yes, every holiday at our house
• 8:05
  Speaker 6: we have beef Wellington and it is a beautiful tender
• 8:09
  Speaker 6: beef that is in a pastry and wrapped in that
• 8:12
  Speaker 6: pastry is basically some sort of mushroom compote that goes
• 8:16
  Speaker 6: around it. So it's it's a mushroom glaze that is
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: wrapped around that beef and then the pastry is around
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: it and then baked, so that's what it is. So yeah,
• 8:25
  Speaker 6: mushrooms are heavily involved.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: My husband definitely knows the way to my heart is
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: through my stomach. Okay, if you and he actually took
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: me out for beef Wellington and it's I never made
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: it myself, and I love to cook, but it's, as
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: you said, a very tender piece of beef. Like it's
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: nice and crispy on the outside of the beef. On
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the inside it's just barely pink. And then around that
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: is this fla key like a cry It's not croissant,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: but it's croissant like all the way around it.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: The beef is encased in this.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Croissant type outer covering and also in there are these
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: really tender mushrooms. As he said, I like a compote
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: and it's amazing. I've never even tried cocoven. Yes, beef Wellington. No,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I was not that adventurous. So my point is, and
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: this is where the shrink comes in Crime Stories with
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, Doctor Michelle Joy is with me forensic clinical
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: academic psychiatrist, author of an illustrated history of the insanity defense.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Now see, I would love to read that whole thing.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to I am going to finish it and
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: illustrated history of the insanity defense that could really help
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: me in corp. You can find doctor Joy at West
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Philly Morbid Art. Doctor Michelle, thank you for being with us.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: If you want to impress somebody and you have them
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: over for dinner, if you have the wherewithal, this is
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: the thing to cook, right. My question to you is
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: not about the foodie aspect of this, but the psychological implication.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: You're trying to get back with your ex. You want
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a reconciliation. You enlist the preacher to speak to the family.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: You get the in laws and I mean the mother
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: in law, the father in law, you got the sister,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: the brother, all everybody's in laws coming to your place,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: and of course shocker, the ex can't make it at
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: the last minute.
• 10:57
  Speaker 7: Great, I mean, that's a lot of effort, a lot
• 10:59
  Speaker 7: of effort. It seems like that she was putting into this.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, forget about the sides. You can't just have it,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: which you got to.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Have the salt and the greens and the blah blah blah, Okay.
• 11:10
  Speaker 7: Go ahead, exactly exactly. I mean just the effort that's
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: put into this, not only the cooking rate, you know,
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: the shopping whatever is kind of going into it, but
• 11:18
  Speaker 7: coordinating this, inviting all of the people. I mean, this
• 11:20
  Speaker 7: that's consistent with really wanting to reconcile, right that it's
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: it's in line with what she's saying that she wants
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: to do those behaviors. But I do imagine that there
• 11:29
  Speaker 7: was a sense of rejection from however, it was communicated
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: that her ex did not want to come, could not one,
• 11:37
  Speaker 7: could not come right kind of at the last minute,
• 11:39
  Speaker 7: and I imagine there was a big sense of kind
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: of rejection and feeling unwanted associated with not showing.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: What do you make the herculean effort lessen Tonight is
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: my mother's ninety second birthday. You know how long I've
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: been working on supper two days, I'm making her her
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: favorite cubed steak. Why cubed because it's easier for her
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: to chew, and she needs the red meat for her
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: iron and her kidney.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: And I can't even remember.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: What else with sweet vidalia onions at a special brown
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: gravy I make, plus her favorite tender fresh green beans, okay,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: And I picked that for her, and I've been working
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: on it now seriously, today's day three, okay, because I
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: love her and I want it to be special and wonderful.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: So if I've been working on this for three days,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: how long did she work on.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: A beef Wellington?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Some of us had to look it up on Google
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: to make sure we even knew what it was. Explain
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: what that means, doctor, And a lot of guys won't
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: get this. Sorry, guys, Yes, I stereotyped to you, But
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's an effort of love, is what
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: it is, doctor.
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: Joyce, Exactly. That's always going to say. The act itself
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: is Prepper is an active nurturing and kind of caring.
• 13:02
  Speaker 7: Food is a nurturing thing. That's how we think of
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: it in that act as an active love and nurturing
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: to spend so much time preparing a meal for someone.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Lawrence Milman joining me out of Cambridge, a mycologist, author
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: of Fungi Pedia. I've said this a couple of times,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: but I love this Fungi Pedia, a brief compendium of
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: mushroom lore, Lawrence. Many people wrongly assume that if you
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: cook mushrooms you cook out the poison. For instance, people say,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: don't wash your chicken. It just spreads the germs all
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: over the sink area, and when you cook it, it's
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: going to cook away the germs. Okay, that might be true,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: but not necessarily with mushrooms. Unlike mushrooms, chicken are not
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: inherently poisonous.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: So how does that work?
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: You cook the mushroom that doesn't remove any poisonous aspect.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: Well, it doesn't at all, and with respect to the
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: truly toxic mushrooms, and of course there are different types
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: of poisonous mushrooms.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, way, Lawrence Millman, I got to get comfy because
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I can tell this is going to be good.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, start over, go ahead.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I can't I want to hear everything about poisonous meassuroom.
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, there's some that cause a gastro intrological problems.
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: So it's a stomach upset, you know, opens the sluices
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: at both ends, if you follow me, Yeah, so on,
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: and there are very few.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: You don't want anything coming out in the wrong.
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: End, Go ahead, well, right, But I mean the most
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: of the poisonous ones and are are you know, stomach upset, vomiting,
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: et cetera.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: But there are say it, diarrhea. We say a lot
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: worse on crime stories.
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: Diarrhea. Know that that's modest, modest, modest, modest. There are
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: a very few that go to the kidneys and the liver,
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: and I believe we may be talking about one of.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Those old on just a moment.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: When I hear poisonous mushrooms, I assume you're.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Going to die.
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: Absolutely not. No, they're poisonous the word, you know, no,
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: Please let me educate you, please do After all, I'm
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: a doctor.
• 15:22
  Speaker 8: You know.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I felt like saying, doctor Milman.
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: But yeah, that's fine. But I mean the great majority
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: of the ones that are poisonous, and there's only a
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: small portion. There're more poisonous plants percentage wise than poisonous.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Mushrooms, but we don't know out And she on a plant.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I would know more go outside and she on a
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: pine straw than the man in the moon. But mushrooms,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you know, that's you know, open, I will eat it.
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: Well, that's true, But this goes back a long time.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: It's called michaelphobia. It's a phobic reaction toward mushrooms the
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: same people have people have public reaction to snakes and spiders.
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: This isn't that realm I never heard this.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, well, doctor Michelle Joy, you better look
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: this up really quickly. If you don't already know about it.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I've never heard of it. There is a mushroom phobia.
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, phobia. It goes back a long long time. In
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: the Middle Ages, people thought that mushrooms were all toxic
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: because toads sat on them and the parted their venom
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: to the mushrooms, and that's why they were called toadstools.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, I've never known that. Go ahead, now you do.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I do, yes, But I want.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: To hear some more about this is look and all
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: the homicides. I have prosecuted, all the egg asaults. I've
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: never had a mushroom poisoning Joe Scott Morgan, have you?
• 16:40
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I have never ever and I've worked a number
• 16:43
  Speaker 9: of cases involving poisonous agents, but never a mushroom poisoning case.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: So I am completely all ears. Okay, hold on, Jackie's
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: holding up that my co phobia. Okay, go ahead.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Yes, there are many many mushroom poisoning mystery, especially English
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: mysteries where a victim is poisoned uh special purposely by
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: a mushroms.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, you said mysteries. You mean real mysteries.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Are you on britt Box?
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: No?
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: No, no, I mean murder mysteries by yeah, by my
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: English murder mystery writers. But in reality, for cure, uh,
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: it's out common. It's not common at all. Accidental poisonings, yes,
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: but not purposeal ones. Not very cool.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you watch a britt Box I'm talking
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you know, oh gosh, of course Agatha Christie, you know
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: anything by her, which of course includes air Que Parrot
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: and Miss Marple. And or you could go with Father Brown,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: you could go with Sister Boniface, you could go with
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Midsummer mystery mysteries. There's just so many directions to go
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: on britt Box. And yes, they love a good mushroom poisoning.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: But you're saying that that doesn't happen that often to
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: the point that you die, not that often.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: You know, if you want to get rid of a person,
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: you know, cooking mushrooms, picking the right mushroom and do so,
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: it's a lot more complicated than other more simple ways
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: of disposing of the person, you know, with an eye,
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: a gun, or a club, I mean with a mushroom.
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: And also the other thing is that often you know
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: it doesn't work because the person will triumph overt and
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: each there might be two same mushrooms right next to
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: each other, same species, but they will have different amounts
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: of the talks, and so one person might die from
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: eating it, and the next person who eats the other
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: one might just have a bad stomach ache.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Time stories with me. It's a grace.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Doctor LAWRENS. Millman is speaking with us from Cambridge. Doctor Milman,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you stated that most often a mushroom poisoning, in your words,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: would simply result in vomiting, nausea or diarrhea. Yes, that
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: is very rare that the person actually dies, Is that correct?
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: It's very rare. They're there and a point when I'm
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: talking about a poisoning, I'm talking mostly I'm talking accidental
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: poisonings and most ninety nine percent of the time, sometimes
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: idiosyncratic reactions to a mushroom, vomiting diarrhea, et cetera. But
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: they're only The point is this, There are only a
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: very few mushrooms that go farther and can work as
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: murderers themselves. Not many, you have to know, and people,
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: you know, most people who make mistakes vomiting diarrhea. You know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: there's there's the very few that have caused deaths.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Well you said very rarely the mushrooms cause a death, Well,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: how about three deaths? Take a listen to our cut
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: eight crime online.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson prepares the family meal, a hearty beef wellington
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: garnished with mushrooms. The two children eat something completely different
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Simon Patterson's parents, Gail Patterson her husband Don, both get
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: violently ill within a day of eating the wellington. Gail
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Patterson's sister, Heather Wilkinson, and her husband Ian Wilkinson all
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: get sick and have to go to the hospital the
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: next day. All three died a few days later. Pastor
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Ian Wilkinson survives the meal, but remains in the hospital
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: in critical condition, awaiting a lite liver transplant.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: A liver transplant. Okay, I'm worried about his liver transplant.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: What about the three dead people? Ash sure joining me,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: senior editor the Daily Wire.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Three dead and one needs a liver transplant, right?
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: I mean that would have to be the kind of
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: dangerous mushrooms that we heard about earlier, one of the
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: few they did find some death cap mushrooms in the
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: in those who had died. Now, there's some issues with
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: that that they're normally found in autumn, and this lunch
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: was in winter, so you know, it wouldn't be as
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: though she could just walk outside and find them, you know,
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: just around. So either she would have had to have
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: collected them and planned this whole thing, or it was
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: some sort of accident. She said she got the mushrooms
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: from two different grocery stores, one of which was an
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: Asian grocery store.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute. My son is an Asian chef.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Believe it or not.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: He loves cooking and eating Asian food. We go very
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: often into the Asian supermarket and I don't even know
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: what all that is, but you're right, some of the
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: things he picks out, I don't even know.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: What it is it looks all dried up.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: But it tastes wonderful, and you're telling me as Short
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: she went to two stores, including an Asian grocery, to
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: get the mushrooms.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: That's what she ended up telling police. The grocery store
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: and others in the area completely denied selling any kind
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: of dangerous mushrooms and there were no recalls and no
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: issues found in the days after this.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: But this is the only meal that all of these
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: people enjoyed together, So that's got to be the source.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Is that meal.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: They all went their separate ways, that's the common link.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, and
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: host of a hit series Body Bags at Joe Scott Morgan.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. Joe Scott,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: we were speaking with as Short from Deally Wire. Just
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: then I kind of glazed over when she said deathcat
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: mushrooms were found in the victims. Okay, hold on right there.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Could you described to me the autopsy procedure where you
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: actually look at the food the victim has in their
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: stomach and why you do it.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: It's very often critical.
• 23:43
  Speaker 9: It's critical in the sense that when we're trying to
• 23:46
  Speaker 9: determine what's referred to as post mortem interval relative to
• 23:50
  Speaker 9: digestion nancy, the human body moves at a relatively predictable pace.
• 23:55
  Speaker 9: Some of that is influenced, certainly by in individuals on physioglogy,
• 24:00
  Speaker 9: if they have some kind of disease process that's going on,
• 24:03
  Speaker 9: you know, some kind of gastro gastric problem that might
• 24:06
  Speaker 9: inhibit their ability to process food. But most people are
• 24:09
  Speaker 9: going to process food at a specific rate. So you're
• 24:14
  Speaker 9: going to go first into the stomach uh and open
• 24:17
  Speaker 9: the stomach, which we do in every autopsy, and check
• 24:22
  Speaker 9: check the contents, and we'll collect the samples. Actually, it's
• 24:26
  Speaker 9: kind of fascinating. People might not realize this, but at
• 24:29
  Speaker 9: autopsy UH many times, particularly when it comes to vegetable matter,
• 24:34
  Speaker 9: we can visually or grossly identify certain items that are
• 24:39
  Speaker 9: still contained in the stomach at that point in time,
• 24:42
  Speaker 9: like green leafy vegetables, that sort of thing. I've actually
• 24:45
  Speaker 9: seen mushrooms in gastric content before, and so we would
• 24:50
  Speaker 9: collect those to do analysis. From that perspective, I recall.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: A case where a victim had eaten a dessert and
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: you know how some people people will actually eat the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: edible gold actual goal.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Something seems very wrong about that to me.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: But anyway, that was still in the stomach and they
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: could identify, you know, started basically building a timeline based
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: on that, and as Joe Scott Morgan, who is an
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: esteem professor of forensics and they're a criminal procedure a
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: criminal justice program at Jacksonal State University is amazing. In fact,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: you and I did a re enactment there of the
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Ellen Greenberg murder. As I say suicide, as they say,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I want to go to doctor Lawrence Milman. Doctor Milman,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I understand you have a point you want to make,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: please jump in.
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: Well, the point is this that in the US, a
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: goodly percentage of people who die from eating deathcap mushrooms
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: are Asian and it's because the death cap looks like
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: a mushroom that grows in Southeast Asia and is found
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: at markets. I would say well over two thirds per year,
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: and there's no more than a dozen or so a
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: year deaths from eating this death.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Cap in the US.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: There's a dozen deaths from eating death cap. First of all,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: a mushroom named death cap mushroom. Why would you eat that?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Number one? Why would you even?
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: They wouldn't know because they're mistaking it for a mushroom
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: that grows, that's edible that grows in Asia, in Southeast Asia.
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: They're making a mistake. Now, can you imagine are.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You referring to the Amanita philodus amanita filoides?
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: Very good?
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I've been waiting all day to say that as soon
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: as you came on winging, thank you, Okay.
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: Go ahead, Yeah, So one can perhaps imagine a similar
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: mistake made once in one Asian market where the specimens
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: are collected. Oh, this looks like an edible. We find
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: it at home, but it's not home, and they sell it,
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: or they dry it and sell it, because a lot
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: of mushrooms that are sold are initially dried and then
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: sold people rehydrate them.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, hold on.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: As much as it pains me to say this, a
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: defense for her is forming in my head based on
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: what doctor Lawrence Millman, who is an expert in the
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: study a fun guy mushrooms. James Shelnutt, a high profile
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: lawyer joining us out of Alabama twenty seven years on
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Big City Metro Area major case. Former Swat now the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: head of the shell nut firm the Death Cap Mushroom.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I innocently was describing shopping in the Asian market with
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: my son, And we've done it all, you know, tried
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: to make our own sushi, make our own mochi, whatever
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: it is, we've made it or tried to make it,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: and we've eaten it all. And when I go with him,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of the things he picks out, I don't
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: even know what they are. They're shriveled up brown pieces
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: of something, but once you cook them, they're delicious.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And now I'm hearing doctor Melman state that the death
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Cap has a look alike.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: In Asia, and that market sometimes think that's what they're getting,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: and they get the death Cap. What if and I'm
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: certainly not saying this is true, but what if she
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: goes in, I mean, is it a stretch to believe
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: she wanted to kill the whole family After she's met
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: with the preacher to try to engineer a reconciliation. Did
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: she go into an Asian market not really understand what
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: she was getting, trying to.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: She gets the look a lot, but it's a death cap.
• 29:16
  Speaker 10: Oh, it's very ironic but not surprising that you make
• 29:20
  Speaker 10: that statement, because as both of us who have prosecuted
• 29:23
  Speaker 10: cases and put the back eyes in jail and back
• 29:25
  Speaker 10: women in jail, you know, you have to think like
• 29:28
  Speaker 10: a defense lawyer is going to think, well, that's.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: How you win your case. You shoot down their defense
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: before they can raise it.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, what if she.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Thought she was getting a puff ball or a patty straw?
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Those are two impostors of the death cap.
• 29:42
  Speaker 10: Oh, I think, I think it's it's absolutely a possibility
• 29:44
  Speaker 10: and that is going to be a defense.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: But do we believe it?
• 29:47
  Speaker 10: After I after we after I knew we're going to
• 29:49
  Speaker 10: cover this case. I've did a little bit of research
• 29:50
  Speaker 10: on mushrooms and don't I don't have the knowledge that
• 29:53
  Speaker 10: the doctor has, but I will tell you also looked
• 29:55
  Speaker 10: and those types of mushrooms are also indigenous to Australia
• 30:00
  Speaker 10: that were first identified in Australia in the sixties. They
• 30:04
  Speaker 10: are indigenous there, and not to take a right hand turn,
• 30:08
  Speaker 10: but I'd be very interested to know.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: So back to doctor Lawrence Millman, I just threw out
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: a little mushroom knowledge about.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: The puffball or the patty straw.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering, is that the mushroom to which
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: you're referring that is a lookalike or are there more?
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: There are several others. No, there are various wild mushrooms
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: that show up in markets in Asia that look alike.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: Now to me, I'm knowledgeable, it wouldn't be a look alike.
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: But to someone who was just interested in edibles and dining,
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: but think, oh, this is exactly like it, and they
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: won't know anything more and they'll buy it, and it
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: could be a problem. And also for a market. I mean,
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: i'd say extremely uncommon for one of these in the market.
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: But let's say someone goes out and collect thanks, oh
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: this is just like our wonderful mushroom at home in
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: Laos and brings it to their own market, thinking that
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: they're going to delight their customers with it. But delight
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: isn't going to be the right word in the end.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be illegal for a market or supermarket sell
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: deathcap mushrooms?
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: No? No, they're not knowing that they're deathcap. They're picking
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: something and selling them that looks like just as the
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: folks you know in the US, they they the one
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: to die from this mushroom. Large percentage of them are
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: from Asia because they've mistaken it. So would perhaps perhaps
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: is the keyword a person who's selling them at a market. Oh,
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: this looks like this is exactly the mushroom we have
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: at home. It's so tasty. Will sell it as a
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: tasty mushroom?
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: Can I just step in for a minute?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Is this Ash or doctor Joy visit Ash ash Hey
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: and Ash? I want to follow up for Ilow's that thought,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: especially if the mushrooms are dried. For me anyway, it's
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: a lot more difficult to tell what the hey they
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: are when they're dried.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, jump in ass short.
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: So we have been talking about Asian grocers, and while
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: it is a possibility, the Asian grocers in the area
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: where Aaron Patterson lived rejected her claims and there were
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: never any health warning or product recalls issued in relation
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: to her lunch. So I just want to put the counterpoint.
• 32:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah out there.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: My question would be if they did have a deathcat mushroom, Well,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: first of all, did she even go to those grocery stores?
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: Do?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Can we confirm that that's her story? Why would I
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: believe her? Is there a surveillance video is there a receipt,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Is there anything to show she really did do that?
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: And that's the problem in this case is because the
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: police aren't They're saying they're looking into this.
• 32:57
  Speaker 8: They've collected a food dehydrator as if she had collected
• 33:01
  Speaker 8: these mushrooms back in August when they were autumn, when
• 33:04
  Speaker 8: they were in season, and dried them out to be
• 33:07
  Speaker 8: used later.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: But they sent that out for testing. We don't know
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: the results of that testing. So we have all of
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: these police kind of staying things without anything.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: It's like a lot of loose ins nantic right, yes,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: jump into Scott.
• 33:22
  Speaker 9: Yeah, hey, look, I got to tell you if it
• 33:26
  Speaker 9: from an investigative standpoint, Uh, if it were me and
• 33:30
  Speaker 9: I was heading up the investigation, I would I would
• 33:32
  Speaker 9: seek out, uh, individuals that rank with doctor Milman and
• 33:39
  Speaker 9: in this particular area of the world, this geography, and
• 33:42
  Speaker 9: and ask them, listen, where do where's where is our
• 33:46
  Speaker 9: largest concentration of this population? Where where them is commonly found?
• 33:51
  Speaker 9: And take me to this location. And let's let's begin
• 33:54
  Speaker 9: to look at this from the perspective of a true investigation,
• 33:59
  Speaker 9: where you're you've got the alleged perpetrator here, that's kind
• 34:03
  Speaker 9: of concentrically located. Does this individual have access and opportunity?
• 34:08
  Speaker 9: Does she have knowledge of this?
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Well, there's something else to Scott, there's something else. Take
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: a listener or cut seven Sidney Sumner Crime Online.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: Well, Aaron Patterson hopes the family dinner will convince her
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: ex husband to give their marriage another try. The family
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: has something else in mind. Simon Patterson cancels at the
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: last minute. The Daily Mail reports Aaron Patterson is wrong
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: in thinking she has the support of the Patterson family.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: The family reportedly thinks there's something off about Aaron and
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: they don't think it's wise for Simon to reunite with her.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: A family friend says, this wasn't lunch. It was an
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: intervention with the pastor Ian Wilkinson as mediator. Simon is
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: not interested in getting back together.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, that changes everything for me because now we know
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: the family did not want the reconciliation. She had to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: know that he the law object the HU, but the
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: father of her children did not want a reconciliation.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: And I'm just wondering why they went through with it.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: That changes the entire dynamic. Doctor Michelle Joy.
• 35:15
  Speaker 7: Right, That's exactly what I was thinking, But as one
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: of the other guests was saying, did she know it
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: and when did she find out? I mean, given this
• 35:21
  Speaker 7: context of how long this meal takes to prepare, I mean,
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: we're these ongoing conversations he canceled at the last minute.
• 35:27
  Speaker 7: Did she really know for these multiple ds that this
• 35:30
  Speaker 7: was a rejection, you know, or even that far in
• 35:33
  Speaker 7: the past, if she had collected and you know, dehydrated
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: these mushrooms? I think there's so much about timeline here,
• 35:39
  Speaker 7: But yes, I mean it was probably felt at some
• 35:42
  Speaker 7: point in some way as a rejection, not only by
• 35:44
  Speaker 7: him but by the whole family. But still, you know,
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: those kind of pieces of the puzzle are still a
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: bit confusing to me.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: And according to the grocery stores they don't sell that mushroom?
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Do we even know she bought them? Because we're learning
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: something new another.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Piece of the puzzle. Listen to cut nine.
• 36:06
  Speaker 11: Police begin investigating the deaths. Four of the seven people
• 36:09
  Speaker 11: at Aaron Patterson's house the day she serves beef Wellington
• 36:13
  Speaker 11: garnish with mushrooms get sick to her children they ate
• 36:16
  Speaker 11: something different. The remaining adult is Aaron Patterson herself. She
• 36:20
  Speaker 11: doesn't get sick either. As the investigation progresses, police reveal
• 36:24
  Speaker 11: the reason why.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: They think everyone got sick.
• 36:27
  Speaker 11: They all displayed symptoms of having eaten death cap mushrooms,
• 36:30
  Speaker 11: which reportedly grow wild near Aaron's house.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Grow wild near their home. What else do I know
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: about a death cat mushroom?
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Listen and Benita Felloyd's is also known as a death
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: cat mushroom. Its large domed cap looks fairly innocuous, similar
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: to many edible wild mushrooms, but as the name suggests,
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: it is deadly poisonous. A death cap smells sickly sweet
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: and rancid as it matures butt in its button stage.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: It is virtually odorless. Death caps grow in forest, particularly
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: under oaken. It only takes ingesting very little of the
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: cab to be lethal, and it's symptoms doesn't always appear
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: right away. Thousands have died mistaking death caps for edible mushrooms.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: No death caps contain the poison eminem and are responsible
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: for ninety percent of deaths by fungus with half a
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: cap or even less, enough to kill a person.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Half a cap or less. When we're saying cap, doctor
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Lawrence Millman, that's the top.
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: Of the mushroom top that's the way the umbrella, the
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: umbrella like shape of it. Yes, but you can. By
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: the way, people often ask, can you touch a toxic mushroom?
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: And you can touch it all you want. You need
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: to get a chunk of it in your stomach. You
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: can smell it too, And I've often said that the
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: odor is something like a hospital sick room. Of them
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: need to provoid these.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Why would anybody eat that?
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: Well, you know they may have not smelled it. They might,
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: but we're talking everybody. You said everybody, But we're talking
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: about a very sparse number of people who've died. I mean,
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: as I said, maybe twelve people a year, twelve fourteen
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: people a year in the US die more dot people
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: die from dog bites than from eating this mushroom.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Well I won't either, But that said, is this the
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: first time?
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Wait for it? Take a listen to our cut.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: Thirteen questions arise when investigators discover ex husband Simon Patterson
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: spent three weeks in the hospital while he was still
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: married to Aaron. According to a Facebook post, a mystery
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: illness put him in intensive care for twenty one days
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: after he collapsed at his home while suffering from an
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: undiagnosed stomach illness. Simon Patterson says he was placed into
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: an induced coma, enduring three emergency operations, mainly on his
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: small intestines. Patterson says his family was asked to come
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: and say goodbye to him twice, as he was not
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: expected to live. The couple are believed to have separated
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: soon afterwards.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, a tiny bit more before I go to Joe
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and our mushroom expert doctor Milnan listen to fourteen.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Several friends tell Daily Mail that Simon Patterson had not
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: suspected the mystery illness to be linked to foul play,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: but with the death of family members, Simon Patterson is
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: questioning whether his illness may also have been due to
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: inevertently ingesting toxic mushrooms. Court documents alleged Aaron Patterson tried
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: to kill her estranged husband three times between November twenty
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: twenty one and September twenty twenty two. Police are now
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: looking at medical records.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, they call the priest three times.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: They call the family to come say goodbye to the husband.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: This occurs while they're still married and living together. Three
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: weeks in the hospital, had to have portions.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Off his small intestine.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Three emergency operations helped me out.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Joe Scott what happened, Well.
• 39:59
  Speaker 9: He presumvents probably which a lot of these people do.
• 40:02
  Speaker 9: It sounds like with the condition, it's like similar to
• 40:05
  Speaker 9: a gastroentritis. You know, when you show up and you've
• 40:07
  Speaker 9: got diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, perhaps you might you might present
• 40:14
  Speaker 9: in kind of a confused state and you know when.
• 40:18
  Speaker 9: To doctor Milman's point, and this is really fascinating relative
• 40:22
  Speaker 9: to how this theme is kind of masked. Just like
• 40:24
  Speaker 9: he had mentioned, there are very few of these fatal
• 40:28
  Speaker 9: poisoning events with this mushroom. Get this, if you're a clinician,
• 40:34
  Speaker 9: you're an er physician, and you're treating these folks and
• 40:37
  Speaker 9: they roll in, you're not gonna you hear hoof beats,
• 40:40
  Speaker 9: and you're not gonna think camel nancy. You know, they're
• 40:43
  Speaker 9: thinking they're gonna treat this as if it's some kind
• 40:46
  Speaker 9: of you know, gastrointestinal disturbance at first. And the thing
• 40:50
  Speaker 9: about this particular mushroom and the way it presents is
• 40:54
  Speaker 9: that you go through this first cycle of exposure to
• 40:58
  Speaker 9: this where you know your guts are all torn up,
• 41:00
  Speaker 9: you feel horrible, and then you begin to kind of
• 41:04
  Speaker 9: you get a little bit better, and it goes into
• 41:06
  Speaker 9: what they it's kind of like a dormant face, but
• 41:09
  Speaker 9: it's not dormant. The toxins in the scene begin begin
• 41:13
  Speaker 9: at a cellular level.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just snapped out of my
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: reverie when you said sell your little level. I'm like
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: thiss Nate Charmer, like I'm listening to Joe Scott Morgan
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: and I'm hearing and testing old gas cho in it.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: I just sell your little level and bam.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: The main thing I'm thinking. Shell Nut James shell Nut.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Court documents alleged Aaron Patterson tried to kill her a
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: strange husband three times between November twenty one and September
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: twenty two to.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: H e double l with the supermarket.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: The woman's already suspective trying to kill the husband three
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: times already.
• 41:52
  Speaker 10: Oh yeah, absolutely, you know it's going to be real interesting.
• 41:54
  Speaker 10: I'm sure the police have order requested this as to
• 41:57
  Speaker 10: what research this this lady has thought. You know, this
• 42:00
  Speaker 10: is not something that the normal person has some super
• 42:04
  Speaker 10: knowledge on. You have to have researched this show.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, when I want to make a mushroom dish,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: which my husband is the one that loves the mushrooms,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I go to Instacart and.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I got blah blah blah.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what I get, and that's what
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: goes in. I get it from Kruger or publics or angles.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not worried. What is that shriveled up a little
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: piece of something. I don't even know what that is?
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Three times three times.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Court documents reveal the ex thought she was trying to
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: kill him. And let me go to ask short with
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Daily Wire, why can you tell me about you know,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: that dehydrator that she would have possibly picked mushrooms and
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: dehydrated them to use later.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: What happened to that dehydrator?
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Because apparently she told police that she dumped the appliance
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: quote a long time ago.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: Right, But she then in a statement that she handed
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: over a police she admitted that she did dumped that
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: food dehydrator in a panic after her ex husband accused
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: her of poisoning his parents. So it hadn't been a
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: long time ago.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, can I just tell you something
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: that just happened, and everybody's got away in My mom
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: fell asleep in a chair and she fell off the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: chair and hit her head, and she said she was fine,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: but I rushed her to the hospital just to make
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: sure there was not a bruise. There was no blood,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: but just to make sure she didn't bump her hand somehow.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Get a slow brain blade. Like I talk about all
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: The first thing I did was not get rid get
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: rid of all the nanny cam footage in the house
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: and turned my phone into airplane mode and rent a
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: car to take her to the hospital. Or why, because
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: that's not what's on my mind. Why did this woman
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: feel she had to get rid of the dehydrator?
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: So what if he said you killed my family.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Why would that lead her to kill her dehydrator, I
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: mean to her dehydrator.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Robin Drake joining me.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: He is the expert in behavioral analysis. Robin Drake, that
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: screaming guilt to me.
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: And she made one statement that I really zeroed in
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: on on this case so far, in that she says,
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: I really want to repeat that I had no reason
• 44:26
  Speaker 6: to hurt these people whom I love. These people, she
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: has a separation from them, so if she's doing this
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: out of love, that's a weird thing to say. I mean,
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: think about this. You've never referred to your mother as
• 44:38
  Speaker 6: that mother or anything else. This is my mother. So
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: there's no possessive pronoun in there whatsoever. And so that
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: was really telling to me.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: You know what.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, because I hadn't thought
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: of that, Robin Drake, when you said mother, I thought
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: of my mother in law. Who mother in law and
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: my father in law? Do you know I've known this
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: since seventy nine, never had a crossword with them in
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: all those years. Ever, I would never say that woman.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: I would never call missus Lynch that woman ever.
• 45:14
  Speaker 10: Very telling.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: It really is, Robin, And you just picked up on that. Okay,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: James shell n not weigh in.
• 45:20
  Speaker 10: Well, you know the first thing I'm thinking of.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: All you were gonna say she's in a whole heap
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: of trouble.
• 45:27
  Speaker 10: That's a fact. But I will tell you this, Look,
• 45:29
  Speaker 10: if you really believe, if you really believe that these
• 45:34
  Speaker 10: mushrooms that you bought from this store are the source
• 45:37
  Speaker 10: of this, you know the first thing I'm doing, I'm saying, Hey,
• 45:40
  Speaker 10: here's my credit cords statement where I bought these mushrooms.
• 45:43
  Speaker 10: Here's my receipt where I bought these mushrooms. This is
• 45:45
  Speaker 10: the day that I was in. Go back and check
• 45:47
  Speaker 10: the cameras I was there. I want these people held accountables.
• 45:51
  Speaker 10: I'm not getting rid of evidence. I'm trying to help
• 45:53
  Speaker 10: them build a case against the people who sold the bushroom.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: You are so right. I also didn't think of that.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: It is at it again.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Sorry.
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: A counterpoint that could possibly be in Aaron's defense is
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: that you're told that you know these mushrooms that you
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: put in your dehydrator killed some people. Could you panic
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: and just throw it away because you're afraid of touching
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: it or having it near in your kitchen to poison
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: other people.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I would think she'd be afraid, even if she
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: is innocent, that she would be charged and get rid
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: of the evidence. But back to shell Nutt, some people
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: like me, I would say, I did use the mushrooms,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: and I got them at this place, and I dehydrated
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: them here, but I never had any idea that they're
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: as doctor Milman is telling us that they were death caps.
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: I totally agree. Innocent people offer transparency and transparent.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Doctor joy jump in what do you think.
• 46:55
  Speaker 7: Well, I was going to say, you know, in the air,
• 46:58
  Speaker 7: this is maybe not the most psychiatric that I've ever said,
• 47:01
  Speaker 7: but at least from my experience in the area that
• 47:03
  Speaker 7: I live, people do forage mushrooms. They also sell mushrooms
• 47:07
  Speaker 7: that they forage to restaurants, they sell them to markets,
• 47:10
  Speaker 7: and so I just wanted to go back to that
• 47:12
  Speaker 7: statement about the market, not quote having these mushrooms. I
• 47:15
  Speaker 7: mean people, that is a possibility too, at least within
• 47:18
  Speaker 7: the area that I live. You don't know where every
• 47:20
  Speaker 7: single mushroom's coming from, even at the markets and their restaurant. So,
• 47:23
  Speaker 7: you know, again, not the most psychiatric thing that I've
• 47:26
  Speaker 7: ever said, but definitely from that perspective. I mean going
• 47:30
  Speaker 7: to the actual question at hand, though, I really think
• 47:33
  Speaker 7: so much of it depends on when he canceled, when
• 47:36
  Speaker 7: these conversations were about him, you know, the family not
• 47:40
  Speaker 7: wedding to reconcile, and that timeline of her cooking, preparing
• 47:44
  Speaker 7: the meals and the meal and when she got the mushrooms. Really,
• 47:47
  Speaker 7: that's what it's down to for me, because if she
• 47:50
  Speaker 7: didn't know those things before she spent these days, you know,
• 47:53
  Speaker 7: preparing I don't feel that even the sense of rejection
• 47:56
  Speaker 7: would have mattered, and no matter how tense intense it was.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Also got to take into account the other three alleged
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: incidents where she tried to kill her husband.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: According to him, correct.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Jackie's question is with the residue from deathcat mushrooms in
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the dehydrator taint other suits? That's her question, Lawrence Millman,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: we need help. Can you help us?
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: Well, let me let me offer a suggestion. First of all,
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: I mean, it doesn't take us Sherlock Holmes to see
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: that all the other people got sick, but she did not.
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: Wait, there is a point on that. Now, granted, you
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: have to take Aaron, in her statement to police, said
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: that she had gone to the hospital with stomach pains
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: and was given a liver drug. Now the police obviously
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: have to check that. We don't know, just like so
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: many other things in this case. We don't know what
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: police have checked.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: But we do know that she's charged, right, she.
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: Has been charged, So maybe they did find these things
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: just not telling us. She also told police that her
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: kids ate the meal as leftovers, but they scraped the
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: mushrooms off because they don't like them.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: What a co inky dink, that's a technical legal phrase.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: That she didn't end up having a liver transplant or die,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: and her children don't like mushrooms, in her words, and
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: they scraped them off. So she and her two children
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: live with no liver transplant. Everybody else gets horribly, horribly
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: ill or dies.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: Now what were you saying, doctor Melman.
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: Oh, I was just mentioning that, but the fact that
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: she didn't seem to get sick. But now I find
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: out that she did get sick.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, we don't know that, doctor Milman, just because
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: she said she was sick.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: She also said she didn't use the dehydrator.
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: Is the proof of her going to the hospital.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: I have no proof she went to the hospital. Zero.
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah. No, It's very interesting and what the liver pop
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: liver prop problem is probably the most dramatic.
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: One.
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: One of the ways in which people on the road
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: to death might survive is by being given a liver transplant.
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: This inhibits cell division. The cells essentially are no longer
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: alive and the body responds accordingly. So you know the
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: tax cells, it's the amatoxins that are there. The attack
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: sells and make cell division difficult if not impossible. And
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: the other thing is that towards the beginning, outward symptoms
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: don't even begin until considerable cell damage is done. That's
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: a big problem.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: This is what I know as the case stands now,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: the testimony from the soul survivor of the deadly mushroom
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: lunch could be crucial to the outcome of this case.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Let's hope he lives. We wait as just as Saples.
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: Goodbye to him.